"It feels like the most likely motive is that he was a little deranged, but it was an anti-Trump statement."
AND: Here's speculation from David French (at National Review):
[A] person who’s “not a gun guy” [according to brother] has either expended untold thousands of dollars to legally purchase fully-automatic weapons, somehow found them on the black market, or purchased and substantially modified multiple semi-automatic weapons — and did so with enough competence to create a sustained rate of fire. This same person also spent substantial sums purchasing just the right hotel room to maximize casualties. I cannot think of a single other mass shooter who went to this level of expense and planning in the entire history of the United States.
And there was no real warning? His family was unaware? His brother also reported that the shooter had no meaningful political or religious affiliations. “He just hung out.” At the same time, however, there are reports that a woman told a group of concert-goers, “You’re all going to die tonight.”
Posts
223 comments:
1 – 200 of 223 Newer› Newest»I don't know why anyone would speculate at this point.
Infer yes. We can infer some things but even that is early.
One thing I can infer is the police knew who this guy was.
Another one is that he is most likely not a right wing nut because the media is going after guns/NRA.
The media will lie to us. I know that.
His father was on the fbi most wanted and was apprehended in vegas in 1978 Iirc after 10 years on the lam post prison escape serving time for bank robbery.
Scott Adams is adept at spotting confirmation bias . . . in others.
This guy Planned to commit mass abortion of conservative Americans with at least one full automatic weapon. This may have been triggered by the press narrative that Republicans would follow Obama's lead and "throw granny over the cliff" with a comparable trillion dollar rollover to fund Obamacare/Medicaid. This may have been triggered by our progressive culture that denies human rights as a quasi-religious rite, where debasing life anywhere, debases life everywhere. Perhaps he was triggered by what he believed was great diversity but insufficient color diversity. In any case, the authorities either know who the mass abortionist is, or he obtained his weapons through an extra-legal channel (e.g. criminal illegal aliens, Holder's Project Gunrunner).
Baby Lives Matter.
There's nothing like a cache of weapons to make one a Master Persuader.
I wonder how many of the dead and wounded were trampled to death by those running from the concert. 20,000 people panicking can lead to lots of people dead and injured by others stepping on them as they flee.
"A little de-ranged" ? This guy procured fairly specific and advanced weaponry and planned the situation to maximize death and casualty.
....
I'm curious to find out more about the weapons used. Based solely upon listening to the tapes and the fact he was firing with decent accuracy at 400 yards, and he was firing at least one (possibly two) full auto rifles for longer than it takes to empty a 30 round magazine, this is going to be a very different story than what we've seen even with Orlando.
Automatic weapons that can be fired with accuracy while maintaining their energy at 400 yards are NOT common, when combined with large magazines or belt-fed ammunition - they are either mounted or given to a specially trained individual. They can be procured, legally, but you've got to be committed to spending alot of money and waiting awhile to get it. Training with them is a PITA because it's incredibly expensive (due to all the ammo use) and because ranges that can handle automatic weapon use at any range are less common.
To put this in perspective....such a weapon alone might cost $15k. A trip to the range to practice with one for, say, 30 minutes might involve shooting 500-1000 rounds and cost $250-500 per trip to the range. If you didn't go through extensive training firing such a weapon at range (i.e. >100 yards), I'd anticipate procuring & training on such a weapon to be a $20k+ exercise.
Again, there's a reason this hasn't been a common weapon and the story behind it here - with a 64 year old guy being the shooter - is going to be interesting.
Paul said...
I wonder how many of the dead and wounded were trampled to death by those running from the concert. 20,000 people panicking can lead to lots of people dead and injured by others stepping on them as they flee.
My guess is they will never let this out. It has to be the gun's fault.
A gun on cyclic isn't very effective. My guess is more were trampled than people would think.
"I don't know why anyone would speculate at this point."
-- People jump the gun all the time on these events.
Scott bemoans that we are getting our news from ISIS these days. But that makes sense. The Obama/Clinton Globalist cabal were the founders of ISIS and the owners of the CNN et al.. Bias persuasion is the basic technique of the Big Lie and the Moby productions that the cabal has mastered. New World Orders need New Reichstag Fires.
Paul said...
I wonder how many of the dead and wounded were trampled to death by those running from the concert. 20,000 people panicking can lead to lots of people dead and injured by others stepping on them as they flee.
...
I'm sure it's not insubstantial, but if 58+ people died from gunfire alone from an automatic weapon shooting from 400 yards away, it wouldn't surprise me if 300-400 injuries were from the spray.
Whatever the motive, I think people have to realize that there's practically nothing that can be done to avoid these sorts of things from happening. Sure, there's plenty of common sense precautions that can be taken, but realistically in a free and open society with endless numbers of large public events held in public spaces all the time, stuff like this will happen. Our entire country is like one giant soft target. And I think that's a good thing, but it's not without risk. Having to deal with these sorts of situations from time to time is far more preferable than living in a police-state.
It doesn't take a whole lot of accuracy to hit a crowd of 20,000.
I think Russia sent auto-sears to interfere with the American music process.
Brian Ross - Democrat hack at ABC, he had no problem speculating about an innocent man who shared a common name with the real perp - and slimed the Tea Party.
Because democrat operatives with bylines.
Adams also notes the large crowds are natural targets for Drone Killers, and The Plot of a Deranged Loner setting himself up in a perfect high up high sniper nest lsimilar to a drone works as well. And note: the CIA boys used that for the Deranged Loner's kill zone for President JFK in Dallas in 1963. Don't fix what is not broken. DJT had better get him a bullet proof helmet.
TreeJoe said...
Automatic weapons that can be fired with accuracy while maintaining their energy at 400 yards are NOT common, when combined with large magazines or belt-fed ammunition - they are either mounted or given to a specially trained individual.
Bi-pods and Tri-pods are easy to find and easy to make and easy to use.
60, 100, 200 round drums are easy to get, use and make and they are much easier to carry than belts. It wasn't necessarily a belt fed weapon. I would be absolutely amazed if it was a belt fed weapon. Like you said they are expensive and near impossible to get.
There are several common methods to emulate cyclic fire including things like the Auto-glove and trigger cranks.
I am guessing he used 5.56 ammo. 400 yards is nothing for 7.62 but you have to be decent with 5.56. Carrying enough 5.56 ammo to a 32nd story room would be much easier than that much 7.62 ammo. It would explain some things if he used 5.56.
No matter how he achieved automatic fire capability he was doing it wrong. He was firing for 7-10 minutes at 20,000 people 400 yards away. He was amazingly bad. If you got right down to it a trained monkey could do better. Even with 5.56.
My guess is we will not be able to count on the anti 2nd amendment MSM here to give us any details that might hurt their narrative.
1) If he converted to Islam as claimed by ISIS, they will down play it.
2) If he was anti Trump and a Democrat, they will find any right wing views he may have held and play those up.
3) If he was just a crazy loon, they will play up the automatic weapon angle.
4) If people of color we're killed they will infer he was a racist.
Our media sucks and we cannot trust them to give us the truth or the facts.
A perfect example of this, the Associated Press tweeted out that a Trump Administration Official (anonymous) said this wasn't a terror attack.
Why tell us that? There is no way anyone knows that for sure yet.
Oh yes, narrative building.
What's crazy is that anyone would take the motivations of a crazed suicidal mass murderer and pretend they can GARNER some wisdom or valuable information from it. He's was nuts. What he thought was the ravings of a madman.
Some interesting quotes at National Review:
“‘Not an avid gun guy at all . . . where the hell did he get automatic weapons? He has no military background,’ gunman’s brother says.”
“‘A person who’s ‘not a gun guy’ has either expended untold thousands of dollars to legally purchase fully-automatic weapons, somehow found them on the black market, or purchased and substantially modified multiple semi-automatic weapons — and did so with enough competence to create a sustained rate of fire.”
“Legally-owned fully-automatic weapons have been used in three crimes since 1934.”
Ann, why would you traffic in this shit? Cruel neutrality my ass. Will you do another post if this proves not to be true?
60, 100, 200 round drums are easy to get, use and make and they are much easier to carry than belts. It wasn't necessarily a belt fed weapon. I would be absolutely amazed if it was a belt fed weapon. Like you said they are expensive and near impossible to get.
I wouldn't be amazed.
Everything about this is unusual. This was a well planned out attack.
I will not be at all surprised if we discover his weaponry was expensive and near impossible to get.
I live about 4 miles from the location. 10 of us were planning to go to the strip last night, but we decided instead to have a barbecue at home. Good call.
This is CBS
If he was anti Trump and a Democrat, they will find any right wing views he may have held and play those up.
Example: Jared Lee Loughner.
Anyone "informed" by MSNBC or the New York Times on the matter would conclude he was hired by Sarah Palin.
Now I Know said: Will you do another post if this proves not to be true?
Yes indeed, she will. You must be new here - she did 19 posts tagged with the "Orlando Shooting".
"Will you do another post if this proves not to be true?"
You mean those 58 people are not dead ?
You idiot !
Paddock's toll equals about a week's worth of gun mayhem in Chicago.
Hayley Geftman-Gold is definitely a Hillary fan girl, kind of like Inga and "NowIKnow!"
I don't think the potential expense of the weapon(s) is illuminating. If you plan on dying what the hell do you care?
4) If people of color were killed they will infer he was a racist.
One of the most prevalent pictures of the dead is a black man.
His lack of experience with firearms [at least as far as his family knew] could indicate there was another person or two in the room with him.
A number of commenters hereon may have missed it last week when some demented young partiers in Las Vegas posted Utube of themselves firing a machine pistol out of their car windows just for funsies while cruising aound The Strip.
bagoh20 said...I live about 4 miles from the location.
Crazy. Be sure to give us the local scoop when it comes out.
"60, 100, 200 round drums are easy to get, use and make"
They are easy to get, but not make.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R18nTRFqnhw
These things are apparently finicky.
I suspect his weapons were semi-auto, these can be fired very quickly if there is no need to aim.
Youtube is instructive -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddPTyoV-Irc&t=123s
Already the hysterical left-wing media is calling for 100% gun confiscation.
Hagar said...
A number of commenters hereon may have missed it last week when some demented young partiers in Las Vegas posted Utube of themselves firing a machine pistol out of their car windows just for funsies while cruising aound The Strip.
Wasn't that in Houston? Was there a second such event?
https://www.click2houston.com/news/snapchat-video-shows-people-shooting-guns-out-of-vehicle-in-west-houston
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
2nd amendment.
Eat me librul turds.
The distance had to have been greater than 400 yards because the 32nd floor is 100 yards straight up just by itself.
Sights are set for level ground. Shooting up or down takes complicated calculations (usually done ahead of time on a "dope card.") Or did he use tracers? So much we don't know. Did he legally purchase the gun or was it illegally acquired or did he illegally modify a legal gun the way the man who shot Steve Scalise modified his SKS to accept a high capacity external magazine? Wish I trusted the FBI and ATF to find out, and I wish I could trust the media to honestly publish the answer if they did find out.
Blogger Rick said...
One of the most prevalent pictures of the dead is a black man.
--
Haley will assume he found one of those $200 passes and wandered into the scene by mistake.
Achilles said,
"Bi-pods and Tri-pods are easy to find and easy to make and easy to use.
60, 100, 200 round drums are easy to get, use and make and they are much easier to carry than belts. It wasn't necessarily a belt fed weapon. I would be absolutely amazed if it was a belt fed weapon. Like you said they are expensive and near impossible to get.
There are several common methods to emulate cyclic fire including things like the Auto-glove and trigger cranks.
I am guessing he used 5.56 ammo. 400 yards is nothing for 7.62 but you have to be decent with 5.56. Carrying enough 5.56 ammo to a 32nd story room would be much easier than that much 7.62 ammo. It would explain some things if he used 5.56.
No matter how he achieved automatic fire capability he was doing it wrong. He was firing for 7-10 minutes at 20,000 people 400 yards away. He was amazingly bad. If you got right down to it a trained monkey could do better. Even with 5.56."
...
The "bursts" of firing make me think he was firing drums and alternating windows. But to say he was amazingly bad is....well I'm not ready to make that statement personally. He was firing at 20,000 people, yes, but 4 football fields away and 400 feet up, at night, means he probably had ~15 degrees of vertical space into which he had to fire in order for the rounds to be 'centered' on the mass of people. And it was nighttime and he was firing on full auto from everything I heard/saw on the videos - so he had to constantly battle muzzle climb.
I don't have enough personal experience firing automatic weapons to call that good or bad, but I can guess - either with a tripod/bi-pod - that maintaining the right barrel angle (i.e. downward and the right amount of downward) while firing on full auto is pretty damn difficult.
I think he was probably more frightened of return fire from police than he needed to be, and he kept alternating windows accordingly - dramatically reducing his total rounds expended.
Oh, and regarding drums, as Buwaya pointed out above I've heard/seen that drum magazines are finicky on semi-auto and really finicky on auto. Doesn't mean that with enough of them they wouldn't be useful.
"There are several common methods to emulate cyclic fire including things like the Auto-glove and trigger cranks."
My problem there is aiming, esp for someone who was supposedly not a gun guy. The Auto-glove is barely plausible. Hand crank? I think unlikely. Not only would the recoil pull the aim off, but the cranking likely would too.
bagoh20 said...
"What's crazy is that anyone would take the motivations of a crazed suicidal mass murderer and pretend they can GARNER some wisdom or valuable information from it. He's was nuts. What he thought was the ravings of a madman."
We live in a world in which suicidal mass murderers are becoming increasingly common. It seems rather defeatist to suppose that there is nothing useful that can be learned about them, simply because we don't share their motivations.
"I suspect his weapons were semi-auto, these can be fired very quickly if there is no need to aim."
It sounded far too rapid for semi on the video posted in British newspaper sites (Where I go to learn US news).
Already the hysterical left-wing media is calling for 100% gun confiscation.
There are some 300 million guns (+/-) in this country. Why these particular rifles went into a casino, booked a room without any form of ID or proper payment, got themselves up to the 32nd floor, arranged themselves on firing platforms, waited for the concert to reach its peak, aimed at targets 1000 yards away, and hit them with sustained accuracy, we'll never know...
Houston it was.
Albuquerque tomorrow?
@buwaya, listen to the video. The spacing between shots is too even for anything other than a fully automatic weapon. Someone else can try to count the shots fired while Aldean is still performing, before he realizes something is happening. I think there are more than thirty but fewer than sixty. Then there's a break, after that I'm pretty sure he's using thirty round magazines until he stops firing.
"This guy procured fairly specific and advanced weaponry and planned the situation to maximize death and casualty."
-- Oddly enough, when the Scalise shooter did the same, the authorities determined that was not terrorism.
Will you do another post if this proves not to be true?
If what proves not to be true?
This? At the same time, however, there are reports that a woman told a group of concert-goers, “You’re all going to die tonight.”
I have linked to her television interview a couple of times. Would you like me to link it again so you can call her a liar? Or the rest of it, which seems pretty uncontroversial at this point.
After deranged crazy people do something deadly towards others, there's so often an attempt to explain things.
You can't explain crazy. Why do people try?
"It feels like the most likely motive is that he was a little deranged, but it was an anti-Trump statement."
Oh fuck off Scott.
I read this Atlantic article over the weekend and it's so spot on:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/how-america-lost-its-mind/534231/
Kevin,
All that only to turn on their helpless host..such betrayal is "Gun Violence".
What the hell, links are cheap!
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/861252/Las-Vegas-shooting-latest-news-Mandalay-Bay-Route-91-Marilou-Danley
Oh yes, The Atlantic. Isn't that the magazine that listed damage to the progressive agenda as "damage to America"? Any reason why I should read it?
This sort of thing (actually more so the Anders Breivik incident in Norway, but all are instructive) is an illustration of the politico-military utility of the sort of weapons permitted by the Second Amendment.
Its often said that this civilian armament is pointless in preserving the option of revolt, as a modern military has such a preponderance in firepower that a militia with civilian small arms has no hope of defeating a state.
Whats missed here is that the true role of this armament is not for fighting a military, but for fighting the civilians the military is supposed to protect, that is, terrorism directed against the partisans of the other side. This is a very different military problem and can't be solved with tanks or fighter-bombers. The political function of such an approach to warfare is to make the power of the state moot; to make the polity ungovernable, or to create a secret government controlling the population working through "midnight sanctions", Viet Cong style.
Even if it merely threatens general chaos, as is also very likely, it is a significant threat to a government that is tempted to provoke any significant part of the populace to such a conflict.
TreeJoe,
OK, but firing at a large crowd like that, he didn't really need much in the way of accuracy. With 20,000 people in the crowd, each individual had a 2% chance of being hit, and a 0.3% chance of being killed. That's not much in the accuracy department; though sadly, it was plenty accurate for the shooter's (presumed) intended purpose.
Suggested tags: girlfriend; Indonesia; ISIS
Meanwhile, authorities are speculating. They weren't in the room. They don't know who was in the room during the shooting. One dead body is only that; one dead body.
LOL, The Atlantic. I use their magazine to wipe my ass after a dirty shit.
While autorifles have very high cyclic rates of fire (like 650 rpm), practically speaking if you do that for more than a minute or two you're going to melt your gun or cause some other heat-induced failure. So either he was swapping around between three or so guns to give them time to cool, or he had something more substantial like a real belt-fed MG.
If you're wealthy and don't mind spending a couple of hundred thousand dollars on your funeral pyre, and you have a clean criminal record, you can pretty much have whatever NFA items (MGs, silencers, etc) you want - but you also have to wait a year or more for the transfers to clear the BATFE. Which shows a disturbing amount of planning and patience, since he doesn't seem to have been a gun enthusiast who just snapped one day.
IRRC, the last murder with a legal MG was committed by an off-duty cop.
@Kirk, shooting downhill is tricky.
This guy was Charles Whitman on steroids.
"shooting downhill is tricky."
Anybody notice tracers in the video?
We already know how the Las Vegas thing will play out:
Scenario A: Shooter was a Muslim shouting "Allahu Akbar" while he was firing: . "We may never know his motive--but let's confiscate all the guns!"
Scenario B: Shooter was some random nutcase: "Let's confiscate all the guns." (The ol' "A attacks B, giving Statist C the right to attack peaceful gun-owner D" fallacy--a variation on the Argument from Pity, a "liberal" favorite.)
Scenario C: Shooter was another Bernie Bro or some other kind of leftist loon: "Nothing to see here. Move along."
If this guy practiced at a range, any range, the FBI/DHS knows which one by now. I've spent a lot of time shooting at ranges and can count on my left hand the number of fully automatic weapons I've seen fired. (And still hold a cigarette and pick my nose, as my dad used to say.)
I've owned both a "regular" and "bull barrel" AR-15 (.223) and while I was able to heat my regular up to glowing red on a 30 round mag, I couldn't on the bull, even with a fast-flip and running through all 60. So perhaps he *was* cooling his barrels as someone upthread said.
-XC
"And with enough money it shouldn't be too difficult to acquire them in Nevada on the black market."
Really? You're not the first person to state this but, with respect, how would you know?
Nyamujal said...
"I read this Atlantic article over the weekend and it's so spot on:"
Mooj, the author of that piece seems to take it for granted that all religious beliefs are evidence of insanity. I think that's a bit extreme, but even granting the premise, he also appears to believe that religious belief in America is the result of something that took place in the 1960's. That is, he is apparently altogether unfamiliar with the entire history of the World. You really think his analysis is "spot on"?
I speculated it was some kind 5.56 setup with a bump stock and drum mag. There's plenty of videos of this kind on YouTube. Relatively cheap and effective from 600 yards when your target is the size of a football field.
Unless you are already tied into the crime world, flashing a bunch of cash and trying to buy an illegal firearm will probably drop you into the middle of an ATF sting.
"Pray only Truptards die!" - Public School Teacher on now deleted Twitter account.
Big Mike,
Nope.
Accurate, aimed fire on a slope does require a one-time adjustment based on the degree of slope, but again he didn't require that. Not sure how he sighted in, but if he was as competent as he appears to be, the required angle could have been easily calculated in advance and then confirmed by a few tracers in his first magazine.
@rehajm - maybe, but those are tough to aim, and combined with a drum mag there's a high chance of jamming.
Steve Uhr deleted his comment I was responding to. Sorry. Not trying to confuse people.
Jupiter: "That is, he is apparently altogether unfamiliar with the entire history of the World. You really think his analysis is "spot on"?"
All leftists and their lifelong republican allies believe history began this morning.
So, yes, Nyamujal does believe that hilariously ignorant take of the Atlantic writer is "spot on".
Besides, it is no doubt triple-plus-ungood-thought to even allow yourself to think that someone on the left could be wrong about something. Best to just continue to simmer comfortably in the leftist hive-mind.
I don't know why anyone would speculate at this point.
Achilles is exactly right here - glad he got the first comment. There is no benefit to anyone by speculating about who it was or what their political motivations were or what their "tribe" is.
And if there was an ideological motivation, I don't see it as an indictment of whatever group he belonged to. The lunatics are traveling with both groups, all groups and no groups. We shouldn't let them divide us further.
Maybe he's a lone neo-National Socialist who was mislead by the SPLC to believe that country music lovers are conservative pro-diversity, anti-color diversity, and may or may not be the descendants of Confederates or the Democratic-affiliated KKK. That's enough to trigger mass Antifa mobs, and may have triggered this individual and his fraulein.
@dickin' bimbos - that post by that business affairs exec at CBS is the quintessential example of someone who has no doubt that she has a complete monopoly on virtue. The lefties are such nasty shits.
It's entirely possible that she'll get the boot. Even CBS has to be conscious of the public perception that they too, are brain dead lefties and the media arm of the pussy-hatted progs.
- Krumhorn
These are reasonable explanations, but they could still be completely wrong.
AndI believe the girlfriend is not Indonesian, but a Pinay.
Just google "Pinay", or ask Buwaya.
t's entirely possible that she'll get the boot.
Ha ha ha ha! Sure.
Brookzene said...
"And if there was an ideological motivation, I don't see it as an indictment of whatever group he belonged to."
Oh, really? So, it's all good?
holdfast said...
@rehajm - maybe, but those are tough to aim
Why would this shooter need to aim? His target was a football field from 600 yards, not a rabbit or a 12" x 12" steel plate.
Check this out.
Is that woman beside the pink shirt guy Marylou Danley?
How close is Paddock's residence to Reno?
We shouldn't let them divide us further.
Ha ha ha ha ha! The whole opposition to Trump is all part of a concerted effort to polarize, demonize, and isolate groups of Americans into warring camps! Just like the fucking Russians want, BTW!!!
At least he only shot a basketful of Deplorables.
Well well well. The shooter wearing a "pussy hat?" At an anti-Trump protest??!? The devil you say!
If that checks out, some people are going to have some soul searching to do, but they won't do it.
Lee Harvey Oswald fired downhill at a moving small target.
It can be done.
Blogger tim in vermont said...
t's entirely possible that she'll get the boot.
Ha ha ha ha! Sure.
She has already been fired.
Oh, really? So, it's all good?
You might read his unusually conciliatory words as "word is out he's one of ours." Where was he when nutcase Dylan Roof was pinned onto every Republican?
She has already been fired.
Headed no doubt, for a less visible, but lucrative and comfy spot at HBO or somewhere.
"Just google "Pinay", or ask Buwaya."
Very likely Pinay though there is a smallish chance that she is Indonesian. There are quite a few non-Muslim Indonesians, and even Christian Indonesians, one was an MBA-school classmate of mine.
I think there may be another woman identified as Indonesian (an ex-wife?) was an Australian citizen and may not be the same person.
Early days, insufficient info.
"Already the hysterical left-wing media is calling for 100% gun confiscation."
No surprise, Crooked Hillary is already posturing about "silencers". Maybe she got some sort of advance information that the shooter was using some sort of sound suppression device - but given that they are not an NFA device (often requiring a year of ATF processing),that one was used seems at this point, to be highly unlikely.
In reality, I suspect that she is trying to head off passage of the Hearing Protection Act (or some such), which would make such muzzle mounted sound suppression devices much easier to acquire legally. Not that they are used very often in crimes, since they make handguns much harder to conceal. But,I suspect that her true beliefs there are that gun owners deserve losing their hearing for practicing their filthy sport. And yes, probably thinks that we all have Secret Service protection, as all worthy people do, as a matter of course, so leaning to shoot is not necessary for personal protection.
I'm sure it's not insubstantial, but if 58+ people died from gunfire alone from an automatic weapon shooting from 400 yards away, it wouldn't surprise me if 300-400 injuries were from the spray.
why shoot from the 32nd floor?
You get plunging fire, not grazing fire. I would think you'd be better off on the 6-10th floors. Then you might get some graze or ricochet.
he CIA boys used that for the Deranged Loner's kill zone for President JFK in Dallas in 1963.
Oh good grief.
You don't have to AIM at a crowd of over 90,000 at a concert. Do you people think the shooter picked out individual targets? It's like a golfer aiming at blades of grass on driving range -- it doesn't matter which blades he hits, he'll hit a few blades with every shot.
The political function of such an approach to warfare is to make the power of the state moot; to make the polity ungovernable, or to create a secret government controlling the population working through "midnight sanctions", Viet Cong style.
Antifa is ready to go. They just need their allies to get the guns.
As long as we're speculating...
Retired accountant with no history of violence who spends his time doing such mundane things as video gambling and going to shows.
The guy's dad was once of the FBI's most wanted list and was diagnosed with psychopathy. So perhaps the possibility of psychopathy was inherited, and something brought about a psychotic episode (tumor, seizure, disease, etc.) He was well off, so he would have been able to acquire the needed tools for his massacre in a short time. And here we are. At this point, and new information could come out at any moment to make this idea silly, it seems Charles Whitman-esque. (Whitman is said to have had a tumor pressing on his amygdala.)
But who knows...
"why shoot from the 32nd floor?"
To clear obstacles between position and target?
For better observation? A low angle is going to be more constricted.
Also, maybe, to delay ID of the shooters location. People would assume closer and lower.
Maybe several reasons, including also, very likely, the personal psychological value of dominance, being so high.
Haley's calling Kathy Griffin to meet up for drinks.
buwaya,
Not just against the civilian supporters per se, but also against the members of the military at home, and their families, and the infrastructure and goods-support systems, etc. I live near JBLM, and while I don't know the exact percentage soldiers or airmen living off-base, it's quite a large number. It's also the case that the base has neither a refinery, nor any large-scale ordnance manufacturing on site, so fuel and materiel is limited to what's already on hand, and then it needs to be transported in. Furthermore there's not much advance preparation for turning the base into a secure Green Zone facility.
In quite a few aspects, waging war on your own home turf is a very difficult proposition.
It was an automatic weapon and it is not hard to hit a lot of people in a crowd of 20,000 in a large field, if you are firing down from a building. You don't any special training for this. You don't need any training at all. As for the difficulty in obtaining automatic weapons? Well, as said in the Godfather: "Difficult. Not impossible." Come to Chicago if you don't believe me.
"There is no benefit to anyone by speculating about who it was or what their political motivations were or what their "tribe" is.
And if there was an ideological motivation, I don't see it as an indictment of whatever group he belonged to. The lunatics are traveling with both groups, all groups and no groups. We shouldn't let them divide us further."
I agree on the futility of speculation; wait until the facts come out. I completely disagree that motive is unimportant. It's crucially important (unless he turns out to be a complete nutter or medically impaired (like a brain tumor)).
I bet the concert started with the National Anthem.
The video claimed to be Paddock from the Reno anti-Trump protest definitely looks like him based on the photo up now on Drudge. There is at least one shot of him standing next to a woman he clearly knows that looks like the girlfriend. I would say that unless someone doctored that video, it is probably 95% likely it is Paddock given it has been released he was a former employee of NASA.
And it fits what you have seen today- any social media he might have had seems to have had vanished like a fart in the wind. Now, it is possible he didn't have any to delete, but I think it unlikely. Also, there was curious lack of speculation on the left-leaning media all day long about his motives- that is probably a tell right there- they know more than they are reporting at the moment.
One of the top intellectuals of the Democratic Party--Lady Gaga--has weighed in on the subject, stating that lawmakers who didn't support whatever form of strict gun control she favors have "blood on their hands." Yet she would put her trust in the bloodies gunslinger in history: the State. Genius!
And someone who does this is more than "a little deranged". It is very deranged.
"...it is probably 95% likely it is Paddock given it has been released he was a former employee of NASA."
Hmmm
"His target was a football field from 600 yards, not a rabbit or a 12" x 12" steel plate."
Exactly, his target was thousands of people in an open area. Even worse, there was music going on, and he could hit hundreds of people, before they could figure out what was going on.
I wonder when we're actual facts about him. His brother said he no religious or Political beliefs, which has to be a lie. His father was a bank robber and on FBI 10 most wanted, so he could be a nut job. Funny, there's no talk of Kids or an ex-wife, just a Filipino girlfriend.
What about the motive would change anything? What policy could be created from that knowledge that would prevent a lone nut from doing this again. Even if we confiscated all guns, there are dozens of other ways to do this or worse. He could have simply poisoned a few buffets around town and killed even more people. We have no defense against such craziness. Like cancer, asteroids, earthquakes, random crime, and most terrorism. It's a background risk to being alive on this planet. Paying attention to the good in life and appreciating it is more useful than any defense attempted against this insanity. The defensive policies that will be deployed will generally make us less happy and provide no real protection. Bad trade off.
Looked up Stephen C Paddock earlier, then had stuff to do, but here's what I found --
He's been married twice --
First to Sharon on 17 July 1977 in Los Angeles, then to
Peggy on 9 Mar 1985 in Los Angeles
No info about any divorces
"What about the motive would change anything?"
I don't consider "crazy" to be a motive. It matters if the motive is political.
I think there may be another woman identified as Indonesian (an ex-wife?) was an Australian citizen and may not be the same person.
The cops are now talking about the girlfriend being out of the country.
Brookzene said...
"I don't know why anyone would speculate at this point."
Achilles is exactly right here - glad he got the first comment. There is no benefit to anyone by speculating about who it was or what their political motivations were or what their "tribe" is.
I can make some inferences though. So far we know:
1. The brother thinks he "wasn't political" as reported by the media. This is a pretty dead give away he was a leftist.
2. He was terrible at shooting. Planned well. But cyclic fire is stupid. Nobody does that if they are trained. He also chose a position that was too high. As soon as the crowd split up and he had to actually aim my guess is he didn't hit much. Another check in the lefty box.
3. That video with his girlfriend and his pussy hat is never going to be seen on major media. But pussy hats are a dead give-away too.
4. Well planned. Chose a country concert venue to shoot up. That wasn't an accident.
5. ISIS hasn't lied yet taking responsibility.
6. The leftists are constantly threatening violence and carrying out those threats.
We are getting a pretty good picture of his "tribe."
And if there was an ideological motivation, I don't see it as an indictment of whatever group he belonged to. The lunatics are traveling with both groups, all groups and no groups. We shouldn't let them divide us further.
Sarah Palin says hi. So does Congressman Scalise.
And tell your fellow travelers on the left Molon Labe for me.
If he had a political motive the danger is that this will create a political revenge-cycle.
An Irish "Troubles" situation.
And this is a perfect tribal-specific attack for such a purpose. A "Bloody Sunday" indeed.
Initial reports coupled with rampant speculation are always wrong. Pundits should just shut up.
"I don't consider "crazy" to be a motive. It matters if the motive is political."
It is almost always political and usually crazy as well. So what if it turns out he wanted to kill Trump voters, or conservatives? That was exactly the motivation of the shooter of the congressmen at the ballgame, which was ignored and immediately forgotten by the media. No policy could stop another shooter from killing conservatives or anyone else gathered together.
What if he was an Islam convert and wanted his glory for Allah. What do we do about that?
What if he just hated country music. Got a policy for that?
The natural desire to do something, anything after such an tragedy is an understandable reaction, but not a logical one.
This is the video of the guy in the pink shirt and pussy hat.
Is it the shooter ? Is that his girlfriend with him ?
I don't know. Resembles him and it was in Reno.
To speculate, which is all we can do, I question these things
Assuming that this is a lone gun man and not a part of a bigger group/conspiracy
1. MONEY? Where did he get the money for all of these weapons and ammo? Automatics are very expensive EVEN if he were able to legally get them. What was his occupation that he was able to have THIS money at his fingertips?
2. PURCHASING__ OBTAINING? How did he obtain these weapons? Himself? Through a group of some kind?
3. PRACTICE. When did he become able to shoot these weapons? You don't just pick one up and TA DAH!! become an expert shot. Where did he practice? Who taught him? Was he military trained?
4. LOGISTICS. Planning this 'event' took quite a bit of doing. Being sure to get the correct room and the correct date. Did he do this all by himself? With no one to help him at all? Where did he get the money to rent the room. You know it had to be expensive with over 20K people wanting to attend the concerts? How long ago did he reserve the room
5. LOGISTICS again. Getting your luggage into the room is not always easy. How hard and how many trips to pack all that weaponry and ammo into the room. No one noticed??? I'm pretty sure if my husband was planning such an 'event' I would have noticed something especially the stockpile of weapons.
6. RELATIONSHIPS. This guy had no friends? No one who he talked to about something that might lead someone to think that there was something off about him? He never spoke to others? I have several acquaintances who if I heard they were suddenly in the news like this, I would not be totally surprised. Surely someone had an inkling?
7. SOCIAL MEDIA. In today's world, what about his social media? Who he follows. What sites he visited. His political or social viewpoints. ETC ETC. No digital footprint?
All these questions make me very much doubt the lone wolf theory. I think it was a group effort in funding and in the planning process.
I have even wilder speculations, but am holding onto those thoughts until some of the above questions are answered.
"No policy could stop another shooter from killing conservatives or anyone else gathered together."
Maybe the left will find it within themselves to stop pouring gasoline on the fire they lite. You're right, it can't be fixed from without.
The only value knowing the motive will provide is if he's a leftist or anti-trump. Then at least it's more ammo against the false claims of virtue, peacefulness, and compassion that they like to hide behind, but it takes trainloads of that evidence for even a trickle to filter through the media.
If he was a Lefty shooting up So-called "Trump Voters" then we have a problem. We've had a lot of irresponsible rhetoric from the Lefties in the MSM, the Entertainment Industry and even on Capital Hill.
A 2nd Left-wing mass shooter would show their hateful rhetoric is actually killing people and needs to be toned way down.
Achilles said,
"2. He was terrible at shooting. Planned well. But cyclic fire is stupid. Nobody does that if they are trained. He also chose a position that was too high. As soon as the crowd split up and he had to actually aim my guess is he didn't hit much. Another check in the lefty box."
I don't understand this. Let's assume he killed 58 and hit 500 others and that another 100 were hurt by trampling (though I haven't seen any trampling yet).
As far as I know, the best way to inflict maximum casualties in a huge crowd when shooting from an elevated position is automatic fire. Because you want maximum rounds spent in the least amount of time. He probably assumed he had 4-5 minutes to shoot. A half-trained shooter firing non-stop for 4-5 minutes, except for mag changes, is probably going to be able to sustain 1 round a second on average over that duration - so 240-300 rounds.
....
Let's assume he wasn't good at shooting - that makes his choice even better considering the number of casualties he was able to inflict.
"The only value knowing the motive will provide is if he's a leftist or anti-trump."
In this Pravda-like atmosphere in this country, the fact that the left has settled, so far, on guns and banning them is a tell that they suspect he might be a lefty. Like the Scalise shooter who has vanished from the news.
bagoh20 said...
The natural desire to do something, anything after such an tragedy is an understandable reaction, but not a logical one.
For now.
Okay, guys, complete & utter speculation here, so act accordingly:
IF (big "If" at this moment) this guy was on some part of the Antifa Left, what if there's a part of the Antifa movement that's decided to do something about the fact that of the 300 million guys in the US, most of them are owned by right-leaning individuals? What if Antifa is trying to upgrade from being Red Guards to being Spear of the Nation? In other words, what if Antifa is trying to add an "armed struggle wing"?
I will repeat, that at this time there's no hard evidence to back up this claim. But, as has been mentioned before in this forum, there are rumors among the gun crowd that the Lefties have been going gun shopping. If this guy truly is a lefty of some sort, the question becomes where in the hell did he get armament like that? My guess: from Mexico, because Antifa is using the Mexican cartels to smuggle in guns for them, since the US gun-culture is too right-wing for them to make major purchases without getting reported to the FBI.
I'd be primarily interested in how he got the automatic weapons.
I don't think he needed much practice shooting them. Its not hard to spray hundreds of bullets on a target the size of a football field and jammed with people.
A minor detail, can you open the windows at Mandalay bay or did he shoot them out? Or was he firing from the roof?
I was wondering how he got his guns into his room, but I assume you break them down and reassemble them.
Whether it was an anti-Trump person or an anti-Trump message, there is no shortage of leftists tweeting and commenting on how wonderful it is that it was most likely Trump supporters who were shot.
Mission accomplished, according to the left.
I don't believe you can open the windows in the Las Vegas high rise casinos. At least the ones that I have been in in LV and Reno. This is for safety to prevent distraught people (losers) from committing suicide from the upper story rooms.
He would have to have damaged, broken, cut out part of the window to be able to shoot.
Know how to shoot. True. You don't need to be a crack marksman with a machine gun, however, you do have to know something about shooting and how to operate the weapon. Someone, somewhere, sometime had to show him how to assemble and operate.
Paddock owned two aircraft and held a pilot's license. He also had hunting licences in Texas and Alaska. Worked as an Accountant at a defense Contractor.
Doesn't sound like your typical leftist.
Michael K said...Is it the shooter ? Is that his girlfriend with him ?
--
That's a pretty generic look..I think I've seen him a number of times at Wal-Mart.
"Someone, somewhere, sometime had to show him how to assemble and operate."
True. Have they said what kind of weapon he had? There's a lot of difference between a machine gun and automatic rifle. I can't imagine he'd have a belt-fed automatic, more like something with drums or magazines.
I'm assuming guns are illegal in LV Hotels, but I doubt anyone would check someone smuggling in weapons.
That's a pretty generic look..I think I've seen him a number of times at Wal-Mart.
Except at Wal-Mart he is much fatter and has a hairy butt crack.
When someone shoots at you from 100, or 200, or more yards away, that/those rounds will hit you or go by you making this sound: "whist", before you ever hear the gun go off. Been there done that. Had the canteen on my pistol belt hit before I heard anything. I would not doubt that one third were hit before they knew anything about what was going on.
could any of the guns been the FBI guns from FAST AND FURIOUS - Eric Holder, James Comey FBI?
rcocean said...
Paddock owned two aircraft and held a pilot's license. He also had hunting licences in Texas and Alaska. Worked as an Accountant at a defense Contractor.
Doesn't sound like your typical leftist."
Nope. But firing into a crowd at a CW concert certainly doesn't sound like something your "right wing gun nut" would do either.
you do have to know something about shooting and how to operate the weapon. Someone, somewhere, sometime had to show him how to assemble and operate.
Nope. You can learn it all on your own -- ALL of it, disassembling, operating, cleaning, unjamming, etc. -- by watching videos downloaded from YouTube and various gun site and other video sources, and then going out to some remote spot in the countryside to practice what you learned from the videos. It's really quite easy.
It would be easier to wait for the facts if it seemed like anybody was interested, we get a lot of statements from the FBI that seem categorical almost instantly.
I am still waiting for the facts from Charlottesville. None seem forthcoming.
TreeJoe said...
As far as I know, the best way to inflict maximum casualties in a huge crowd when shooting from an elevated position is automatic fire. Because you want maximum rounds spent in the least amount of time.
You don't just hold down the trigger and spray bullets. Automatic fire is generally effective at suppression, i.e. it keeps the enemy from moving and firing back while your team maneuvers. A single person has almost no reason to go full auto.
When you are trying to take down a target you fire very short bursts because you are really only accurate on a human sized target at 400m for the first 2-3 shots. If you just shoot at a crowd without acquiring a specific target you are making noise and praying. It takes just as much or more skill to hit a target with automatic fire at 400m than with semi-auto fire. When we went out we had a choice of using semi and auto. 99% of the time we chose semi. It is more point accurate.
He probably assumed he had 4-5 minutes to shoot. A half-trained shooter firing non-stop for 4-5 minutes, except for mag changes, is probably going to be able to sustain 1 round a second on average over that duration - so 240-300 rounds.
....
Let's assume he wasn't good at shooting - that makes his choice even better considering the number of casualties he was able to inflict.
Semi-auto fire goes about 60-100 rpm. Cyclic on most machine guns is 500-600 per minute. Automatic fire puts out a lot of lead. Even an AR-15/m4 can easily do 400 on auto.
A trained shooter planning to use automatic fire would set up the kill zone to maximize coverage of the target area. i.e. if I shoot along a flat plane the bullet covers more of the kill zone as it travels. Vertical angles are only needed to clear obstacles. If I had to guess 5-10th floor would have been better.
"Nope. You can learn it all on your own -- ALL of it, disassembling, operating, cleaning, unjamming, etc. -- by watching videos downloaded from YouTube "
Yup. I use You Tube for instructions on disassembling new guns.
Lots of good videos.
I got a P 38 for Christmas and had to learn how to strip it.
"If I had to guess 5-10th floor would have been better."
It will be interesting if we ever find out the history of his reservation. Maybe he knew the rooms but the lower floors were reserved already.
The less we learn, the more likely ISIS was right.
Also, this was a concert where music is loud, loud, loud, who amongst the crowd would hear gunshots from such a far away place.
Do we have any confidence FBI can do this right or that Session's DOJ can stay on top of this?
AllenS said...
When someone shoots at you from 100, or 200, or more yards away, that/those rounds will hit you or go by you making this sound: "whist", before you ever hear the gun go off. Been there done that. Had the canteen on my pistol belt hit before I heard anything. I would not doubt that one third were hit before they knew anything about what was going on.
There is a certain kind of *crack* that most people would totally miss if you haven't heard it before. Especially if it was 5.56. If it was 7.62 NATO well you probably wont miss that. You would feel that. I am sure people saw blood and people falling first with all of the noise.
I have had really bad luck with videos and I am not really looking too hard. If I heard it there are some details that could be inferred. I keep hearing "silencer" being talked about by the idiot leftist media. Was he using a flash suppressor?
Habitual gambler ... Do they Stick at one casino or crawl about?
An update:
CBS fired a legal executive Monday after she wrote on Facebook that she was not "sympathetic" to the victims of the mass shooting in Las Vegas.
“I’m actually not even sympathetic [because] country music fans often are Republican gun toters," former executive Hayley Geftman-Gold wrote.
Paddock owned two aircraft and held a pilot's license. He also had hunting licences in Texas and Alaska. Worked as an Accountant at a defense Contractor.
Khrushchev was an avid hunter. So was Ceaușescu. Even Stalin like to shoot game from time to time.
If a band was real loud (as lots of concerts exhibit) then a 'silencer' would not be needed.... and thus Hillary's screed is bogus, as usual.
When I heard the audio the first thing I thought was, 7.62. Could be wrong about that, though.
5. ISIS hasn't lied yet taking responsibility.
I don't know if they've liked but they've at least been wrong about it - twice this year.
I would add alleged suicide to alleged shooter.
Are we even sure he is the shooter? Just because he was found dead in that room??!!
Dunno Paul,
Not approving her setting aside her "Chardonnay" to spout off so soon..but if the music is loud, a silencer would be more effective. As it is, the recordings show the shots registering quite well over the music...at least where that phone was.
"Her views as expressed on social media are deeply unacceptable to all of us at CBS.
I believe you think it's unacceptable to say this publicly. But there's a reason people like this work in media. Further she wrote this because she believes everyone around her thinks this is acceptable and she's probably largely right. She just doesn't understand the difference between almost everyone and everyone.
Come on gunnies ... It would have been shooting almost straight down from 32nd floor ... Not at all like a shooting range. No way guns were not mounted.
If h was really a hunter, he may be more familiar with weapons.
Still wondering about ISIS.
The lone wolf theory does seem a bit of a stretch, but at the same time I don't find that this guy seemed as much of a regular guy as some folks seem to assume.
He was a high stakes habitual poker player whose career would only have led to a modest income. It doesn't seem a stretch that he may have had some unsavory connections with people that had access to those kinds of weapons.
The motive is less clear, but I don't find the means as hard to imagine.
His brother is in a tough spot (how is one supposed to act in such a situation) but to my eye and ear he protests a bit too much. I especially think so after learning about their fathers' life of crime.
He sounds like a Jack Ruby level player around town. And he conveniently died before interrogation. I would want to know how he practiced using weapons the way he did. Beginner's lick is not an answer. And he was not a psychopath for 64 years. Why did he decide to play a deranged loner psychopath commuting mass murder in his hometown? And why now?
Now the brother is saying his is rich from real estate.
Really an odd story.
None of this really adds up, does it ?
They are now using the term "multimillionaire" at the Daily Mail.
Auto correct has gone wild.'
Come on gunnies ... It would have been shooting almost straight down from 32nd floor ... Not at all like a shooting range. No way guns were not mounted.
I've not seen any data that could confirm or deny that assertion.
I don't know enough about firearms to comment. However, I do know that a corner room at weekend rates at Mandalay Bay can be doggone pricey. I'm not poor, but I'd need to cash some points to rationalize the expense...unless rationalizing an expected, last expense was kinda moot.
Was he using a flash suppressor?
Witnesses saw muzzle flashes, or so they claimed.
Brookzene said...
And if there was an ideological motivation, I don't see it as an indictment of whatever group he belonged to.
ARM has been blaming conservatives for the Loughner assassination for what, seven years now? Somehow liberals who claim to believe ideological motivations don't taint the group have never once criticized him on this point, but today we find out it's a deeply held principle.
Sure.
Strange how ISIS claimed credit, when it's not their MO to do so unless shooters really are ISIS affiliated. Lots of people shot in the head, seeing this on Daily Mail, it seems like a lot of women were shot in the head.
Adams calls it terrorism. Terrorism must be foreign-sponsored, and there must be a political goal. Who’s the sponsor and what’s the political goal?
“Just making up numbers here.” Scott Adams
Headlines say 72 minutes of horror .... That is more than an hour. How hot do the guns get? How much can they cool down? How much forensic skilled are standard issue cops?
Maybe I have watched too many shooter movies!!!
"Terrorism must be foreign-sponsored"
There is no reason why terrorism must be 'foreign-sponsored' (20th century Ireland?)
“Her views as expressed on social media are deeply unacceptable to all of us at CBS. Our hearts go out to the victims in Las Vegas and their families.”
“Her views as expressed on social media are deeply unacceptable to all of us at CBS when expressed publicly. The company public line is that 'Our hearts go out to the victims in Las Vegas and their families.' and must be said with a straight face”
Fixed it for them.
There is no reason why terrorism must be 'foreign-sponsored' (20th century Ireland?)
Americans largely sponsored that. Notice how after 9-11 the IRA sort of went away?
She felt perfectly free to announce her bloodlust to her Facebook 'friends" Yeesh!
Here's an off the wall theory.
Single older guy, no kids, who has made no real mark on society. Aware of his coming death, as any 64 yr old would be, decides he wants to be remembered, one way or another. All it takes is a philosophy like rhardin's that human life in the aggregate is cheap. He may not get the Mother Teresa treatment but he does hold a major record and will be remembered. He may even get a street named after him in California!
I wonder if perhaps one or two terrorist shooters used his room and killed him and got away. I guess there will be a careful crime scene study that will rule this out.
Based on what we know now, it is likely that he did the shooting himself, but we should be eager to find out what his connections were, if any, for equipment+training. Maybe he just watched youtube videos on how to modify non-automatic rifles.
PIERS MORGAN: If a Muslim terrorist had committed this Vegas atrocity we'd have a slew of new laws in a heartbeat. But because it's an old white guy with guns NOTHING will happen.
If this were true wouldn't we have a slew of laws after the Orlando or San Bernardino attacks?
Can't people think?
@jonathan ... Beat me to it. Looks like he/they needed high perch to clear over close in trees and structures.
Is Vegas still Harry Reid s hood?
Blogger Jonathan Graehl said...
I wonder if perhaps one or two terrorist shooters used his room and killed him and got away. I guess there will be a careful crime scene study that will rule this out.
--
FWIW, reportedly found a helluva lot of guns and ammo at his home.
What about the woman who told concert goers you are going to die today?
What about the woman who told concert goers you are going to die today?
I'm sure she'll come forward any minute now. Even the police want this story to disappear.
Is this a must solve or already a cold case?!
They had her, let her go.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/861252/Las-Vegas-shooting-latest-news-Mandalay-Bay-Route-91-Marilou-Danley
Do Brits put in more footwork than journos?
Guardian has had a lot more details than American press too.
I've come to the conclusion that everything about this story is seriously fucked up. Surely, he had neighbors, friends that he worked with, others that went to high school with him, but right now, nothing.
You probably would not hear gunshots from 400m away during a loud concert, but you'd definitely hear the snap and crack of the bullets passing around you, plus the sound when they hit the ground or a person. At 400mm, 5.56mm or 7.62mm would still be significantly supersonic, so the bullet would arrive well before gunshot sound anyway.
Anyone who's ever sat in the pits below the targets on a range knows that supersonic bullet passing overhead and hitting wooden target frames is LOUD.
don't know much about guns, but i heard some people talking today about how difficult it is to buy a fully automatic weapon. They are illegal for civilians and very very expensive. Also,
it might be possible to take semi-automatic and enhance with illegal devices.
Also, the killer had many guns (10? or more?) and that shows he knew something about how that type of weapon heats up and you keep moving to the next weapon.
Not sure if any of that is true, but found it interesting nonetheless.
*I am a gun owner. I will always be a gun owner. I have a healthy fear of the federal government and the potential of a corrupt totalitarian leftwing take over. & Hillary-Podesta axis of evil.*
If only Hillary had been around to instruct everyone how to dodge sniper fire. By the way, where in the fuck is she?
On the videos, you can clearly hear the gunfire, and it is loud, and clear. From 400 yards away.
@Jupiter - I am not in a position to watch videos now. Is that before or after the music stopped? I suppose the tall buildings might have created an echo effect.
AllenS - where is she? she needs to go away!
She tweeted a bunch of nanny ignorant political garbage today. She needs to STFU&D
"Can't people think?"
Hello? Its Peirs Morgan. It just pulls opinion's out of his ass.
The Brits didn't want him and he came over here. We shipped him back to the UK, and now he's uttering his bilge at the Daily Mail.
I don't have a fucking clue why he's employed. I guess morons like him.
Hillary Clinton - clueless nag.
Bullet, dodged.
"Guardian has had a lot more details than American press too."
The foreign press is generally better than the American.
Even the Guardian.
The foreign press is generally better than the American.
Even the Guardian.
The Guardian is reliably leftist but more honest, even with all that, than the US media. As Insty says, they are "Dem operatives with bylines."
The Brits are weak on Muslims; "South Asians committed..."
In Chicago it's "Youths...."
AllenS said...
I've come to the conclusion that everything about this story is seriously fucked up. Surely, he had neighbors, friends that he worked with, others that went to high school with him, but right now, nothing."
Yep. 64 years on this earth and nobody besides his brother has anything to say about him?
There's nothing on social media? Would be surprising.
There's nothing on social media? Would be surprising.
He had a Facebook account--people this morning were talking about it. Either the authorities took it down or Facebook did--with or without a request from his family or authorities.
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