Newsweek reports.
ADDED: The man is deceased. It was 3 decades ago. The allegation is only that in a photo shoot, he put his hand on her ass. This kind of #MeTooism is diluting the category that we have been taking very seriously in the light of the Harvey Weinstein revelations.
I'm not approving of ass-grabbing. I have a problem with making an allegation this late against a dead man. And I have a problem with lumping things together the wrong way.
IN THE COMMENTS: Bob Boyd said:
Maybe we should pick Harvey Weinstein up, brush him off, put him back where we found him and forget the whole thing.If too much is thrown into the category we've been activated to take seriously, many of us will deactivate. Those who want to keep the recent activation working should want to help keep up the distinctions. If the problem seems vague and expanding, the need to protect the unfairly accused will outweigh the interest in smoking out people like Weinstein, and — ironically — it will give them cover.
Posts
153 comments:
This was never the solution to the problem. It was a distraction and an ability for virtue signaling, and thus was bound to happen.
#metoo was never going to separate sexual harassment from clumsy passes, or I said "no" from I regretted what I did. #metoo was only going to make everyone feel they needed a #metoo to feel included in the game, and thus searching their memory banks for times that they too could add the hashtag.
It certainly took the focus off Hollywood, Weinstein, and his enablers though. If Harvey's PR team didn't come up with #metoo, they should have. If Gloria Allred wanted Harvey back in his job, under close supervision, and making more money to pay out to her plaintiffs, she couldn't have done anything better to help than start #metoo.
My mother in law is sometimes kind of 'handsy'.
After all he went through, a grab of an ass or two is forgivable.
Plus I don't believe her. Reason? No concrete reason, I just don't.
This is part of the prog escalation, predicted (ahem) right when the HW scandal broke. It's not Weinstein, or Hollywood, or prog men abusing women, no, it's everywhere. All women must get in on metoo (or were they not attractive enough?), all men must be smeared.
In parts of Europe, grab-ass is a way of life. A young woman could get her ass pinched black-and-blue on the streets of Rome or Paris, even if not by elderly Jews.
Exactly, Kevin.
#Metoo takes the focus off the monster Weistein.
Maybe it's time I revealed: Mother Teresa got too chummy with me once during bingo night in Calcutta.
Ass grabbing is now sexual assault? Unwanted groping is just that. Unwanted groping. You turn around and yell "get your grubby mitts off my ass, sir."
#MeToo = give Hillarywood, Bill and Harvey a big pass while we focus on hiccups.
Even Holocaust survivors need love.
This is getting a little like the "campus rape crisis"; if you don't claim you've been "molested" then you are not one of the cool kids. It also reminds me of the various - now debunked - nursery school molestation cases that were made by, essentially, brain-washing little kids and calling it "enhanced memory".
Kevin said...
It certainly took the focus off Hollywood, Weinstein
O'Reilly/Ailes/FOX did a better job at this.
We are now veering into the rhardin zone, which, to his credit, he predicted. Bullshit really old unprovable claims that seek to empower the victim.
If Elie Wiesel grabbed someone's ass in 1969, that is rude behavior, worthy of a groin kick - 48 years ago.
As a violation, I don't think ass squeezing qualifies (rises to the level of) groping.
If women want to out all the gropers, ass grabbers, and fondlers who are in the public eye, that's fine I guess. I don't know if this witch hunting will act as the behavior modifier people hope it will though. And won't too much of this me-tooism will deaden the impact?
Contrary to his assertions, I heard that Billy Graham met with a female behind a closed door in 1957. Or maybe it was 1967.
Now it can be told: this one time, at band camp, no, wait, it was a fund-raiser for a sex-addict clinic...
rhhardin said a lot of things nobody at the time wanted him to say and I wonder how many more of them also will turn out to be true.
So he decreed, in words succinct, That all who flirted, leered or winked (Unless connubially linked), Should forthwith be beheaded....
-W.S.Gilbert
I love that photo of Slow Joe and the caption, "I have a puppy in my van. Would you like to see it ?"
Once upon a time it was a common thing to do when a photograph was snapped. It's purpose was to evoke an expression on the young woman's face that would survive in perpetuity. It even had a name--goosing. Geese were far less gentle and respectful of private areas on a body.
It's a problem whose only solution is segregation. Muslims and Jim Crow Democrats are ahead of the curve on this one.
A woman claims that esteemed scholar, philanthropist and Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel molested her as a teenager
wow, the language people use
"molest" and "teenager"
she was 19
maybe we should make girls register for the draft at age 18 so they know that adulthood has begun
squeezing her 'ass' at a charity event in New York three decades ago. In a 'Me Too' post on Medium last week, Jennifer Listman, a former doctoral student at New York University and researcher at Yale University, recounts that the late Wiesel forced himself between her and her boyfriend during a photo shoot at the 1989 memorial event and molested her. As the photographer focused, Wiesel allegedly moved his hand from Listman's right shoulder to her shoulder blade, then down her back where he groped her as the photo was taken…."
It's entirely possible that he grabbed her ass intentionally. Every human being is a sinner, and capable of doing wrong.
It's also possible that he was trying to put his hand on the small of her back, actually had his hand in an awkward position on her ass, and then moved it up trying to get his hand off her ass, and all she felt was him rubbing his hand across her ass.
An accusation needs to be proven. If you don't have proof, then it's time to STFU.
I think she deserves a pass, professor. Nobody's perfect, can't we all get along? Does death pardon Weasel or the Holocaust, that's unclear.
The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones. So let it be with Caesar.
The english teacher who made us memorize Anthony's soliloquy was rumored to be a perv with the girls, but that was the 70's, Jake.
Robert Mitchum's nickname in Hollywood was "The Goose", and not because he laid Golden Eggs.
PB: What's your proof that the accusation has no proof. Why are you not shutting the fuck up? That's OK, I'll grant you a pass this time. Nevermind.
South Park.
Mike Pence was really on to something.
I'm also sick of this. #MeToo.
This kind of #MeTooism is diluting the category that we have been taking very seriously in the light of the Harvey Weinstein revelations.
Women have been taking very seriously, not we. It's a mob action from the word go.
Althouse wants to preserve the best case for her hot buttons but it's the same mob for it all.
Mob action entertains the mob. Private life continues. Sometimes the former ruins the latter but it's a small price for present entertainment.
Didn't Naomi Wolfe drop a dime on some conservative scholar for a similar offense? I think she got applauded for it.......Some of these offenses don't sound that hair raising, but I guess the new policy is zero tolerance and retroactive for the last fifty years........Charles I before he was beheaded said to the assembled witnesses: "If they can do this to me, your King, think what they can do to you." Tony Goldwyn has come out with his complaint of sexual harassment. Goldwyn was the grandson of THE Goldwyn of MGM and the son of an important Hollywood producer. The sleaze in Hollywood was remarkably pervasive, and no one was safe.
I keep being reminded of two things: the brilliant 1988 movie, Heathers, and the R.Kliban cartoon, "'It was hell,' recalls former child."
Will metooism serve or harm the cause of women's equality? I invite everyone to think deeply about this.
What happened to Steinem's "one free grope" rule? Does it only apply to Bill Clinton?
He was a Weisel. But he is forgiven for his books, like Oreilly.
When everything is sexual harassment, nothing is sexual harassment.
I inadvertantly brushed my hand over the ass of a woman I hadn't seen for over 20 years during a photo at my high school reunion.
I couldn't get rid of her for the rest of the night!
#MeToo
@ William
It was Harold Bloom whom Naomi Wolf fingered.
"This one time, I was at a G-8 Summit when President Bush sexually assaulted me." - Angela Merkel.
There literally nothing serious about the meeto thing.
I mean you know, whatever happened to that whole Michelle sad face thingy?
Maybe we should pick Harvey Weinstein up, brush him off, put him back where we found him and forget the whole thing.
All this meetooism has the aura of Stolen Valor. Amazing, in less than two weeks it looks like this thing has jumped the shark.
What is wrong with these spineless women? If a man touches you and you don't like it, tell him. Just tell him to back off or you'll start screaming bloody murder. Didn't we teach our girls to stand up for themselves? Didn't we teach them from birth "stranger danger"? What happened to these "strong females" as they grew up? I think this piling on of absurd claims is to dilute the vileness of HW and to get people to forget what he did because it's happening everywhere.
Love that you put joe biden's pic up. Where is all the outrange and #metoo about Jee?
Love this video of Joe in action:
Body Language: Creepy Joe Biden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoLHn577xIE
How long before men get their own metoo metooism? Metoo made to pay for dinner, metoo nagged endlessly, metoo turned into a sex object, metoo falsely accused of harassment, metoo fired for questioning metoo claims.
If he only ass-grabbed once, doesn't that fall under the Gloria Steinem rule?
Every once in a while, say at the supermarket, I catch a woman glancing at my crotch. #MeToo!
Good start Sebastian... but you have to forfeit your Man Card for whinging like a bloody bird.
I hear ya Tim, maybe I shouldn't stuff a pair of sox down my jeans.
There are lots of nice knives available for young women and girls facing this kind of up-close threat.
"If he only ass-grabbed once, doesn't that fall under the Gloria Steinem rule?"
What's that...like a mulligan?
Eh. Let it burn.
At the risk of engaging in LLRian self-referential self-repetition, I still wonder if progs are miscalculating with this metoo escalation, pissing off too many men in their post-Weinstein effort to kiss and make up with women -- at least some of whom must be getting tired of the smears, and a handful may even, like Althouse, get bored with the shark-jumping and weakness-signaling.
"Ass grabbing is now sexual assault?"
-- It is, in the same criminal way that someone giving you that jerky shoulder bump to push you out of the way is "assault." It is, but it is important to note that, while still bad, is way different than what most people think of when we think of criminal assault.
That's another business idea: GirlKnife! For every knife purchased, we donate 10% toward donating knives to girls who don't have them.
Hmm. Marketing has its upsides and downsides. Gotta focus-group this on FNC and MSNBC.
It was Harold Bloom whom Naomi Wolf fingered.
Given the complaint, perhaps it was the other way around?
A US sailor on shore leave once came up and put his arm around my sister on the street in Oslo. I am pretty sure he never did that again.
I'm going to start a #Notme hashtag.
"There literally nothing serious about the meeto thing."
-- I don't agree there. I think that the people who started it honestly meant well. Then the Internet happened to it.
Ann, your comment "And I have a problem with lumping things together the wrong way," followed immediately by the picture of Uncle Joe, wins the day. This is why I keep coming to this blog. Bravo.
Really, law professor Eugene Smith was chasing Liz Warren! Had to be out of desperation?
Too bad ol' horny Smith has passed on. He’d be so impressed with all the improvements to sex dolls. And the variety.
30 years ago, as Elie Wiesel was grabbing ass for charity in NYC, I was at an outdoor beer party far from either coast. A girl I didn't know came up to me, grabbed my crotch, stuck her tongue in my mouth, pulled back, leaned over and threw up on my shoes. #MeToo
I heard when he cupped her ass he also whispered in her ear, "Are you ready for the final solution?"
"you have to forfeit your Man Card for whinging like a bloody bird." Metoo cruelly derogated by sexist avian metaphor equating male metoo laments with whinging.
By the way, Howie, my man, what's this Man Card you're talkin' about?
I was kinda impressed that only 4 of 21 US female Senators had a complaint of sexual harassment.
Their complaints we're trivial except for Warren who was chased around a desk. One said she had been propositioned (the horror!), One said a man made a dirty joke and the last one Heitkamp complained of a time when a man disagreed with her.
So the US has a lot to be proud of.
Remember the #yesallwomen hashtag from Anno Domini 2014? It has its own Wikipedia entry, as #metoo eventually will! Yay!
Given the things Wikipedia has claimed aren't notable enough for it... how'd a hash tag get kept?
"Every once in a while, say at the supermarket, I catch a woman glancing at my crotch. #MeToo!"
It depends on whether you had a hardon.
The female gaze is so creepy! Not to mention a couple of women who took advantage of me when I was drunk or high! #Meetoo!
"It depends on whether you had a hardon."
Only that one time, I swear!
I'm thinking 8th Grade was the tail end of the "ass-grabbing, bra-strap snapping, titty-grabbing" phase of life.
In High School, you were too big to do that. Most of your energy was devoted to getting the girl in the back seat of your car.
In college, there was no need for grabbing or groping, because you got drunk at parties, met girls and then either went back to your dorm room, apartment, or frat house room.
Of course, if you were smart enough to develop a nice RELATIONSHIP with an attractive young female, there was no need for any groping nonsense, because you both were getting what you wanted.
Bring back dating, bring back girlfriends and boyfriends!
So do we need a new hashtag ...#Iamsickof#metoo
Where does Harvey Weinstein go to get his reputation back.
Anything the Newsmedia can do to take the focus off of #WeinstenDemcoratClintonRape#
I guess I can talk about it now....
Back in '90, when the small IT firm I worked for in DC moved offices, I was given a corner office with a window because I had been with the company since its inception & because I had a development project that required peace, quiet, & privacy.
Well, one of my female co-workers, who had a mouth that would make a longshoreman blush, came in to see me & when she saw my office, she announced in a voice that they could no doubt hear in Kansas:
"A WINDOW OFFICE! A WINDOW OFFICE! WHOSE COCK DID YOU HAVE TO SUCK TO GET A WINDOW OFFICE?"
I was hurt. Embarrassed. Mortified. That the world might think that I had gotten to where I was because of my oral sex skills as opposed to my IT skills! It was then that I went on Welbutrin**
#METOO
** This incident is absolutely true. All except for the last paragraph about my hurt feelings. Actually, I just laughed like a motherfucker....
Blame Hugh Hefner.
During the late 1960s--early 70s-- Playboy ran the serialized adventures of a fictional superspy by some famous author. One of the recurring gimmicks was that the spy would always make moves on a woman when she couldn't react, lest she wanted to be killed. So when the spy grabs the princess and jumps with her behind a couch, just as a dozen assassins armed with machine guns burst into the room, you could guess her knickers would soon be coming off. The other recurring gimmick was when he was ties up with a woman, awaiting execution, his erection was always in the way of the woman untying his ropes with her teeth. Something had to be done. A female Mossad superagent was often tied with him. Who knows what Elie Wiesel read and what effect it had on him.
"Where does Harvey Weinstein go to get his reputation back?"
The Plant and Garden section at Home Depot?
#metoo is doing it's job of making all this go away. It was the point all along.
It doesn't help that Wiesel drove a white van with "Free Candy" painted on the side.
Hillary out yammering that "It's all partisan "baloney""..
Clinton Russian profits and Bill's sexual assault are all baloney. Just like Weiner was hacked.
First it was Roger Ailes and Harvey Weinstein. Now it is Fibber McGee's closet.
Mike said...#metoo is doing it's job of making all this go away.
--
Dunno about that...perhaps for the Hollyweird.
But I think it will embolden the notion that white males in the workplace are evil.
Hey..will the NFL players do some sort of mime against this?
Harvey Weinstein will be back if he follows my advice which is to lose 100 pounds, hit the gym, shave and then return triumphant to Los Angeles. They love the body second only to money and Harvey has been a loser in the looks department. Fix that and he will be forgiven.
If too much is thrown into the category we've been activated to take seriously, many of us will deactivate. Those who want to keep the recent activation working should want to help keep up the distinctions. If the problem seems vague and expanding, the need to protect the unfairly accused will outweigh the interest in smoking out people like Weinstein, and — ironically — it will give them cover.
Why doesn't this apply to the campus "rape crisis"? Why aren't distinctions important in that case?
You'll find no one more enraged about real rape than me. I advocate the death penalty for rapists. But the claim that 20% of women who attend college will be raped is absurd and harmful to efforts to combat actual rape.
"Blogger Earnest Prole said...
I heard when he cupped her ass he also whispered in her ear, "Are you ready for the final solution?""
In such hilarious poor taste that I can only gape and applaud.
It's a good time to be a Deplorable. Expectations are low.
Dog bites man. Deplorable grabs handful of ass.
Women could build an app where they can anonymously report these sorts of incidents. Once a particular man gets a set number of reports, they would all be released at once. The problem is verification, and the bigger celebrity, the bigger the verification problem. So perhaps the release trigger would be set at 5 for random men but 20 for well known celebrities.
The lady's story mimics this one: Taylor Swift: where she testified against a man who she says groped her at a 2013 meet-and-greet. Swift was just another woman in a world that requires women to insist — to prove, over and over again — that their experience qualifies as truth. In a world that decides, off the bat, that women are crazy or mendacious or simply wrong. And so Swift insisted, more times than anyone should have to and in increasingly descriptive terms, that a former radio DJ had the audacity to put his hand under her skirt and violate her.
[Taylor Swift testifies in groping trial: ‘It was a definite grab.’]
On the stand in the civil trial in Denver, Swift identified former radio DJ David Mueller as the man who grabbed her, in front of fans and cameras, when they posed for a photo at that city’s Pepsi Arena. After her camp reported the incident to his employer, he was fired. Mueller then sued her, alleging her accusation was false and unfairly cost him his job. He contends it was a jostle, that someone else did it and also that he believed his hand was on her rib. Swift has countersued, arguing that he, in fact, had assaulted her.
The Facebook meme I've seen is roughly this: If American women are so easily offended, who was it that bought 80 million copies of 50 Shades of Gray?
Not to mention the movie audiences for the film adaptation were estrogen heavy.
#Operation dilute the message#
So Hillarywood can get back to golden statues, hypocrisy, and mega fund risers for democrats/Hillary.
raisers.
Left Bank of the Charles, 12:17 -
Yes, I guess they could. I'm not quite sure whether you're being wry here, or you think this would be a good idea.
Wow Alan,
Whole lotta "lumping" in that screed.
Let's talk about the boyfriend.
We've been on a progressive slope ever since female chauvinists demanding to resurrect human sacrificial rites for social progress, denied women's agency by placing conception before choice. The male chauvinists are simply religious/moral allies who exploited the opportunity created by their female chauvinist counterparts.
#metoo is doing it's job of making all this go away. It was the point all along.
Exactly. With the social liberal religious/moral order exposed by progressive conditions, the Church and Party followed the traditional path to project responsibility, and, failing that, mobilized the mainstream press and diverse acolytes to saturate the signal environment. The transgressions, long tolerated, may force a climate change that threatens the progressive liberal order.
I know literally that "molested" has no time or intensity requirement, but "goosed" and "molested" don't seem the same word to me.
"Where does Harvey Weinstein go to get his reputation back?"
When was he born?
All the evidence backed up Taylor Swift's claims--and that's why the judges ruled in her favor. Taylor had immediately reported the incident to the radio station manager, btw. One of her body guards standing behind them saw the shock jock lift her very short skirt with his hand and place it on the bare portion of her buttock that was exposed given the design of her knickers/thong. He then saw the shock jock slip his fingers under her underwear. The bodyguard was waved off of taking action by one of Swift's team--until the photo-op was finished.
Liz Warren’s ‘MeToo’ flip-flopped old tale
‘Light-hearted’ encounter now harassment
Jules Crittenden Tuesday, October 24, 2017
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/us_politics/2017/10/liz_warren_s_metoo_flip_flopped_old_tale
U.S. Sen. Elizabeth Warren reportedly switched up her account of sexual harassment that she relayed this weekend in a televised #MeToo testimonial from an earlier “light-hearted” version.
On Sunday, Warren described an unnamed senior professor’s unwanted approach with alarm on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” saying the man chased her around a desk while she said, “‘You don’t want to do this. You don’t want to do this. I have little children at home. Please don’t do this.’”
Warren added, “And at the same time, what was flickering through my brain is, ‘If he gets hold of me, I’m going to punch him right in the face.’ ”
Warren said she eventually escaped the office and only told her best friend what had happened. She said she wondered what she did to “bring this on” and “wore a lot of brown” after the encounter.
But the Boston Globe reported last night that Warren recounted the same incident in a “more light-hearted manner” at a memorial service after the professor’s death in 1997 — an account the Globe noted was “inconsistent” with her story on Sunday.
“During the service after his death in 1997, Warren spoke fondly of law professor Eugene Smith and told the gathered mourners she was laughing as Smith chased her around his desk, according to a colleague’s memoir,” the Globe reported.
The author of the memoir, John Mixon, told the paper, “I may have been wrong saying she was laughing,” adding that he was writing about the service 15 years after the fact.
The paper also noted that Warren failed to mention on “Meet The Press” that Smith had polio.
The Globe said Warren told the broadsheet yesterday she shared the story at the memorial service as a statement about Smith’s authority.
“It was 20 years later, and he didn’t have power over me any more,” Warren told the newspaper, which noted she was by then a Harvard law professor.
The Globe described the shift as an “evolution” on Warren’s part “amid changing attitudes about harassment and increasing empowerment of women to speak up.”
Someone's got something on Mother Theresa, I'm betting.
whispered in her ear, "Are you ready for the final solution?
Abortion? That's sadistic.
What are the chances of finding a willing masochist to play the role of baby?
I heard she grabbed the Dalai Lama's ass once.
If this is really a problem, why aren't women being taught that a pat on the ass should result in the patter pulling back a bloody stump?
Do that to my wife, that's likely what will happen to you.
My wife had her bottom pinched at the Trevi Fountain on her semester abroad in 1969. Does that count? #hertoo
It's not like Warren to fudge her past..
Maybe her memory is a "composite".
#indigenousmetoo
You don't have a problem with 30 years later?
This is the whole point of metoo, to make people think accusations can be made willy nilly and must be accepted. That's exactly, exactly, what I pointed out McGowan was doing the first time you swooned over her. "I am the proof"
My Aunt Floe used to embrace and kiss me WAY too long and hard when we all got together for Thanksgiving in the late 60s leaving lipstick all over my face, me not even a teenager yet!
#metoo
"The paper also noted that Warren failed to mention on “Meet The Press” that Smith had polio."
Brave Liz Warren refused to succumb to the entreaties of a Polio survivor?
That may violate the ADA.
Fifty years ago I was learning to fly Navy jets in Mississippi. One evening I answered the hall phone in the BOQ (no cells in those days and no extensions in the rooms). The caller was female and the subject was...urological. I hung up and told my roommate I'd just gotten an obscene phone call. He was incredulous -- not that the call was obscene but that I'd hung up.
Then the phone rang again. It wasn't long before I heard my roommate say "about six inches"....
No selfies for him in those days, and no #MeToo for me.
But the claim that 20% of women who attend college will be raped is absurd
What they do is "sexual assault" studies that ask people if they have ever been touched when they didn't want to be touched.
And they mark that down as a sexual assault.
So if a man kissed you when you didn't want to be kissed.
It's a sexual assault.
Then the term "sexual assault" gets translated into "rape."
That's how you get the idiotic and dishonest statistics.
If no charges were filed and no evidence was taken then it didn't happen. This type of merlo crap will enforce that distinction.
So if a man kissed you when you didn't want to be kissed.
It's a sexual assault.
It's worse than that. If a low status man asks you out on a date, it's rape.
If you have sex that is consensual at the time, but you regret it later, even years later, it's rape.
If you drunkenly give a man oral sex while he's passed out, he's raped you.
If you have consensual sex to please another even if you're not really in the mood, you've been raped.
If you are rough housing with your girlfriend, and someone else sees you and reports you, you are guilty of sexual assault..even if you and your girlfriend both deny the charges.
#Bring back our women
rhhardin said...
"Where does Harvey Weinstein go to get his reputation back."
Get it back? Harvey's reputation is as a man a woman should not be alone with if she doesn't want to be aggressively propositioned, and possibly raped. Apparently, that has been his reputation for a long, long time. It's just that more people have become aware of it recently.
I grab my girlfriend's tits and asses all the time. But I am gay so it is not harassment.
Playing aggressive games of Twister?
Now..my autonews feed is getting into it:
Sexism alive and well in auto industry
ADDED: The man is deceased. It was 3 decades ago. The allegation is only that in a photo shoot, he put his hand on her ass. This kind of #MeTooism is diluting the category that we have been taking very seriously in the light of the Harvey Weinstein revelations
It was too inclusive to take it seriously from the beginning.
I haven't been hit on by any ladies other than my wife in many years...
#notmelateleyandI'mslighlydepressedaboutitbutI'mrelativelyhappilymarriedsoI'llgetoverit...
I might as well come out and say it, after all these years: the only involuntary ass-grab I ever experienced was at a party. Hosted by a gay man. Grab by another gay man. Who, noticing my non-gay reaction, apologized. But hey, #MeToo.
I don't approve of ass-grabbing (outside of consent, that is), either.
But ... "molesting" these days is read as "child rape", not its literal sense of "bothering".
So not a useful word choice?
(And I concur with people above, that a "#metoo" that conflates both "grabbed an ass" harassment and [actual, literal, no preambles or diffusions] rape is already too diluted to be serious.
People shouldn't grab asses or make sexist jokes or leer; they should be shamed, slapped, shunned, etc. as appropriate.
But those aren't rape or attempted rape or beatings, and shouldn't be included to lessen those things.)
Where does Harvey Weinstein go to get his reputation back? Jail's a good start.
People shouldn't grab asses or make sexist jokes or leer
What's wrong with sexist jokes.
rhhardin said...
"What's wrong with sexist jokes."
Know any good ones?
Anyone who remembers what the # sign was called before "hashtag" will be stuck by the irony of #MeToo.
So you're saying it's wrong to bring these past events up? I don't think so. They'll all do their bit in drumming into men that things they take for granted could land them in hot water.
No one is saying Wiesel is Weinstein.
rhhardin said...
"What's wrong with sexist jokes."
I went to a wedding, a long time ago, in Houston. There was a friend of the bride from New Orleans, a smart, funny, good-looking gal, clearly intending to get laid tonight. Most of the groomsmen were too married, and she started flirting heavily with a guy who seemed to know me, although I didn't recall having met him. That happened a lot in those days. Whenever she left the table, he would make jokes to the rest of us, like "Why do women have two legs? So they won't leave a trail of slime wherever they go. Ha-ha!" Oh, he was a riot. They finally left together, and I had a bad feeling about it. Maybe just jealousy? There's a lot of it around.
readering said...
"They'll all do their bit in drumming into men that things they take for granted could land them in hot water.
No one is saying Wiesel is Weinstein."
The Hell they're not. As well for a sheep as a lamb.
When I was in high school, there was this girl...girl, I shouldn't call her that, it was maybe a woman, or even a guy, I dunno...but anyway, this person gave me a kiss I'll never forget. I didn't ask for it and didn't deserve it, but it felt like a violet had decided to love me. I was stunned, amazed, and turned toward that beautiful violet, thinking maybe, maybe I've got someone.
Then I got shot and woke up in the ER a couple hours later.
Maybe better a minute into the 5m set.
"Anyone who remembers what the # sign was called before "hashtag" will be stuck by the irony of #MeToo."
NumberMeToo?
"...He just didn't know the level."
It appears most of the egregious behavior occurred below the waist.
"30 years ago, as Elie Wiesel was grabbing ass for charity in NYC, I was at an outdoor beer party far from either coast. A girl I didn't know came up to me, grabbed my crotch, stuck her tongue in my mouth, pulled back, leaned over and threw up on my shoes."
You probably forgot your Listerine that day. One kiss and she has to barf. Sad!
"What's wrong with sexist jokes."
Know any good ones?
How many feminists does it take to change a lightbulb?
Or
Q: Why aren't there more women engineers?
A: Because all of their lives they've been told that this is six inches. (holds fingers three inches apart)
Octalthorp?
Sharp?
It was Harold Bloom whom Naomi Wolf fingered.
***************
Wouldn't it have been better if it were the other way round?
Pound Me Too (sensible chuckle).
Manned space exploration looks like it can make a possible comeback any time now. The idea of spending a decade alone in a box in the rings of Saturn, helping the drones go up and back to the surface of Titan, or something to that effect, sounds ok sometimes.
Not all who sailed west with Columbus were interested in spices. Some were simply less interested in the Witchfinders, the Code Enforcers, and the Indulgence Tax Collectors.
There was a girl who used to grab my crotch in high school. She was a 3rd year, and I was a 4th year. It always happened in the hall. I thought maybe she had a mental problem, so I met with the school nurse.
That seemed to solve the problem. I don't think she understood it was a deviant activity.
Microsoft tries to make the # symbol mean "sharp".
I call it a pound sign. So C-sharp is C-pound to me...
Bob Ellison said...
There are lots of nice knives available for young women and girls facing this kind of up-close threat.
My daughter always has a knife clipped in her right hand pocket. She was with a small group of friends one time when someone said something about a knife. One of them told me she had it out and open so fast he stayed on her left side the rest of the evening.
The "metoo-ers" indeed undermine their cause by attempting to turn every man into a Harvey Weinstein. As a woman working in a male dominated field I was never "Harvey'd"; I was hit on, flirted with, asked out, had dirty jokes told to me and sent to me via email--and I told and sent a few myself--but was never harassed or abused. I said "no" to unwanted come-ons-- sometimes I had to say it more than once-- and that was that.
Most people are able to make a distinction between actual harassment and merely crude and/or unwanted attention. Except SJW types. As is typical of the left, their approach to any problem always ends up hurting those they claim they want to help. They'll end up screwing this up by turning the issue of sexual harassment into a punchline.
Mike said:
"#metoo is doing it's job of making all this go away. It was the point all along."
For some, yes. But I think others are just dupes.
This kind of #MeTooism is diluting the category that we have been taking very seriously in the light of the Harvey Weinstein revelations.
It's all about the pivot:
1) Sure, Weinstein did it, but everybody does it!
2) Actually, only our political enemies do it.
3) Actually, our political enemies do all kinds of evil stuff, totally worse than Weinstein grabbing some starlet's ass.
4) Profit!
Et tu, Leon?
"If this is really a problem, why aren't women being taught that a pat on the ass should result in the patter pulling back a bloody stump?"
Depends on a lot of things. Depends on if I know the guy, and whether I am alone with him or in a crowd. I'm 5ft 2; there's no way I can stop a man who is intent on hurting me. If a man is a stranger I can't tell if he's just a harmless creep who only wants to cop a feel or some psycho who intends to hurt me.
If I know the guy he gets a slap in the face-- I've done so at an office party. But if I don't know the guy, unless I had a weapon-- and even then-- I would attempt to talk my way out of a potentially dangerous situation with a touchy-feely man by being calm, firm but polite. I've done so twice in my life; both times I was a teenager.
My experience has been that sexual predators prey on the very young, the small and the weak. Telling them to fight back is not always helpful advice. Better to train them to first use their wits, and fight only if all else fails.
Oh dear god.
Me too-ism you betcha.
He was in his sixties and from Europe. Get a fucking grip over your sacred ass issues. Who gives a fuck!
He was probably too senile to know what he was touching.
Maybe her ass felt lumpy like a nearby bean-bag pillow.
It's easy to get confused like that.
I said "no" to unwanted come-ons-- sometimes I had to say it more than once-- and that was that.
Wow. You were actually able to do that? Amazing. The media feminazis keep telling us that women are incapable of effectively rebuffing anything and that therefore every male is supposed to presume they couldn't possibly be interested so as to avoid the taboo of determining whether they definitely are or are not via means as unwieldy as communication. Communication is wrong, evil, awkward.
It presumes that people find things out about each other by asking about and speaking to them rather than by just appropriately guessing, as sharing the relevant information needed to know for certain is a naughty thing to do.
I'm sure that a hand possibly accidentally or accidentally on-purpose making contact with the ass of an entitled American woman at a gala benefit in the 1980s must be almost as traumatic as being force-marched, starved and nearly mass exterminated at a Nazi concentration camp.
I'm so glad that she spoke up against such injustice. Eli Wiesel must have been a monster. Thank goodness we have the clear-sighted perspective and sensible moral priorities of the ethics giant Jennifer Listman to listen to.
“I grab my girlfriend's tits and asses all the time. But I am gay so it is not harassment.”
Check your gay privilege.
Urbane legend, good story. A woman with a knife and who knows how to deploy it is something no rapist should ever cross. Nor her friends.
I’ve had women grab my ass. I had a coworker tell me she wanted to have sex with me in the basement while we were at work. I never considered filing a harassment complaint. I simply brushed it off beciase it’s not that big a deal. Even though, when my butt was grabbed I didn’t give express verbal consent, if the women were cute I found it flattering and a way to start talking to them (usually it was at a bar type setting). And in the few times I had a dude proposition me I simply said “thank you, but I’m not interested”.
Now granted, what Harvey did was much worse than what these people did to me, but I was no victim. It was presumptuous to grab my butt, sure, but it’s not like it destroyed me as a human being. One is not like the other. If women want to to be treated as serious as not as perennial victims they can’t keep playing the victim card and comparing boorish behavior to actual rape-sexual assault.
As if on cue, George Bush the Elder says he wants a piece of the action too.
Okay, I've been holding this in for a long, long, long, long, long time. But now I want to identify the woman who assaulted me sexually. Who molested me when I was a teenager. I want to identify in public that girl who pinched me on the ass.
It was you, Lindsay Lutz. You pinched me on the ass and you know you did. We were in eighth grade. I was minding my own business, going to class, carrying my books. And you walked up behind me and pinched me on the ass.
"Somebody pinched me on the ass!" That's what I said to myself. And I turned around and looked to see who my assailant was. And it was you, Lindsay. And you know I am speaking the truth today. You pinched me on the ass, in public, in a crowded hallway. Relying on your beauty privilege. Probably you were thinking, "I can get away with this. I'm Lindsay Lutz!" Well, not anymore. The tables are turned. And I am joining the ranks of all the victims who cry out for justice. My ass burns for justice.
How dare you. How dare you pinch the ass of an innocent lad!
Decades later, when I'm on Facebook, trying to find old friends who I knew back in the day, I looked up Lindsay Lutz. And I said to myself, maybe she's learned her lesson. Maybe she's a better person now. Maybe she's a sensitive adult. So I reached out and offered my virtual hand of friendship to Lindsay Lutz. And she declined! That's the kind of person she is. She goes around pinching the ass of 14-year-old boys, and then decades later doesn't remember who we are. I'll bet you are pinching asses all over the place, for your own sick enjoyment. Seek therapy, Lindsay Lutz, before you traumatize any more innocent males.
And I'm not changing names to protect the innocent. Because you're an ass-pinching fiend, and I am not afraid any more. I will confront you with the truth. The world needs to know what you did.
Also, if (name withheld) says that I gave her a playful slap on the ass, well, I have no comment at this time. But possibly her memory is faulty. I would like to go on the record and question her memory. Also to point out that football coaches slap players on the ass all the time, it's part of that famous male jocularity. Or jock-hilarity. However you spell that word. That's what I was doing, getting psyched up for football season. And I think we ought to change the subject back to Lindsay Lutz, that bad girl who started the whole thing.
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