But I think privately owned places — especially religious institutions — should be allowed to impose their own standards of modesty. There's a big difference between being deprived of the freedom to breastfeed wherever you are and being required to drape a light cloth over the exposed breast.
This WaPo report on the subject completely takes the perspective of the woman and makes the churchgoers seem prudish and ignorant of the law:
A woman promptly asked the Dumfries mother to decamp to a private room, she said. Peguero declined and was later told that the church does not allow breast-feeding without a cover because it could make men, teenagers or new churchgoers “uncomfortable,” she said. One woman told her the sermon was being live-streamed and that she would not want Peguero to be seen breast-feeding....The woman, Annie Peguero, is described as a "42-year-old personal trainer and fitness and nutrition specialist" and — these are her words — a “hippie mama."
It is also a legally protected right in Virginia, where the legislature passed a 2015 law that says women have a right to breast-feed anywhere they have a legal right to be....
It seems to me that churches — and other religious organizations — have rules about how covered up you need to be in the building or during a service. And the last time I looked, Virginia has a Religious Freedom Preservation Act, § 57-2.02:
No government entity shall substantially burden a person's free exercise of religion even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability unless it demonstrates that application of the burden to the person is (i) essential to further a compelling governmental interest and (ii) the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest.Quite aside from whether Peguero has a statutory right to breastfeed uncovered in church (and I don't think she does), as a matter of etiquette and caring for others, she should have willingly covered her breast as soon as she noticed the exposure distracted or bothered anybody.
Here's the highest-rated comment at WaPo:
As someone who has lived all over the world, I can assure you America is the only place on earth where people get hysterical seeing mothers breastfeed their babies.Here's the second-highest-rated:
Exactly what is it about a breast that has you guys upset? It is not a sex organ. It was made for women to feed their babies. The fact that it has been sexualized by men does not make it a sex organ.
I get the whole "it's natural" thing, but have a little consideration for those around you. You still cannot walk around nude freely in our society. And, it does make people uncomfortable ... which is also "natural". Use a blanket or step out of the room. Why is that such a huge deal?ADDED: I'd originally misread a sentence in the article that said: "Now Peguero, and an attorney, are pressing church leaders to issue a statement and reverse their policy." I've corrected the post.
IN THE COMMENTS: I Have Misplaced My Pants said:
Haha. Women who make a fuss about this are almost always attention seekers best ignored.Policraticus said...
I am on my fourth breastfed-into-toddlerhood child over 15 years (didn't breastfeed the adopted one, alas) and I have always nursed wherever I happen to be and no one has ever once given me so much as the stink-eye, let alone approached me and been an ass. Of course I've been discreet when appropriate, finding a quiet corner if it seemed like the thing to do, but I have never nursed under a drape or cover of any kind and I have never nursed in a bathroom.
The whole "zomg men sexualize the breast waah waah waah" thing is a hoax. Again, in 15 years of off and on public breastfeeding and hanging out with other public breastfeeders I have never had a man be anything but polite. I'm calling bullshit.
You know, I'm all for modesty and things having a time and place. I am sure the mother in question could have been a little more discreet.Good point (though I think the images of Mary are not so common among protestants). Here's an example:
But... the reaction of the church officials crosses over into the absurd. The idea that a woman breastfeeding a child should hardly be shocking. The image of Maria Lactans is ubiquitous in Christian art and you can find images of Mary breastfeeding the infant Jesus pretty much everywhere you look. Irony. It can be pretty ironic sometimes.
There's also Lactatio Bernardi, where Mary squirts some milk sideways onto Saint Bernard:
Posts
102 comments:
Regarding one of those higher rated comments, I suspect Saudi Arabia may not be as open about publicly exposed breasts. But that may be just a hunch.
"The fact that it has been sexualized by men does not make it a sex organ."
OK. Six-pack abs, big pecs, shapely thighs, pretty eyes, well-trimmed hair, necks like Ivanka's, tight buns, and all other things not absolutely 100% connected to sexual reproduction are not sex organs, either, then.
And it's all men's fault.
Not mentioning it would work too.
People pretend not to notice all sorts of things every day.
When etiquette breaks down the law comes in with its boots.
Polite inattention.
It's about respect, or more correctly the lack of it. Our hippie mama does not have respect for those around her, ignoring the fact that she is a distraction. I wonder what, if anything, she's learned from Church.
Exactly what is it about a breast that has you guys upset? It is not a sex organ. It was made for women to feed their babies. The fact that it has been sexualized by men does not make it a sex organ.
No, I'm pretty sure they're sex organs. The widespread custom of covering them up wasn't begun out of concern over taunting hungry babies.
And, like every other square inch of a woman, breasts have been sexualized by men and Lesbians alike. It's because we're in the majority - and, oh, yeah, because evolutionary biology - that men get the credit.
Churches have the right to exclude people. They very rarely do, of course. But on occasion it does happen. And if she feels the need to breast feed during the service, surely she could find one that is amenable to it.
I wonder how any churches she went to before she found one where someone objected, so she could make a stink about it on youtube. Also, from what The Professor posted, it didn't appear to be the minister or a man at all, it was "some woman."
Breast-feeding, in general, is a good thing.
Breast-feeding in Church? That just means you have a wacky Mom, who has no consideration for others.
Do not believe people who try to tell you that "only in America" is such and such illegal or disapproved of, or whatever.
Also, if you are a lawyer and a fitness trainer, you got ripped off by the law school you attended.
Etiquette? I don't need no stinkin' etiquette!
She doesn't like church policy? Find another church. There are a few around.
Summary glance.
What strikes me about all this is how self-centered the woman seems.
Here are a few observations of such behavior
Its all about ME!
You're not the boss of ME!
My rights supercede ALL OTHER CONSIDERATIONS
I don't have to be considerate of others, I GOTS RIGHTS!!!
My selfish needs are more important that you, your church, your feelings or common courtesy.
I picked these up last time I was on a grade school playground.
"OH crap. Hold my baby, my phone is ringing and I don't want to interfere with the sermon."
The law says she is allowed to breastfeed there.
The church says she may not breastfeed uncovered in the church.
Where is the conflict? All she has to do is drape a blanket over the baby. Problem solved.
Except clearly she does not want the problem solved.
I, too, have lived all over the world and I don't recall a lot of women with exposed breasts nursing their babies everywhere.
Exactly what is it about a breast that has you guys upset? It is not a sex organ. It was made for women to feed their babies. The fact that it has been sexualized by men does not make it a sex organ.
Where in the world do people get this idea, that men have somehow sexualized breasts in a not-normal way.
A guy can have to register as a sex offender (for his life!) for urinating in public, but yeah, nursing women are the real victims.
"As someone who has lived all over the world, I can assure you America is the only place on earth where people get hysterical seeing mothers breastfeed their babies."
Just spitballing here, but I suspect your "all over the world" doesn't include Tehran or Riyadh. I don't think people are particularly crazy about it in East or Southeast Asia, either. They go so far as to provide private rooms for it.
The woman, Annie Peguero, is described as "an attorney"...
Professor- I think you misread this.
The article say Now Peguero, and an attorney, are pressing church leaders...
At least it keeps the baby quiet.
And I love the way "breasts are only sexualized by men, therefore invalid" is so easily whipped out there. These are the people who say nothing is true or false and everything is socially constructed, but when presented with at least thousands of years of evidence that men <3 boobs, they go straight for the Platonic Ideal of Breast Purpose.
This lawyer thinks she can act as if she's in a perfect world. Next time she's in a courtroom will she act as if she's in a perfect world? Will she talk about justice, not the law? And refuse exorbitant fees?
Haha. Women who make a fuss about this are almost always attention seekers best ignored.
I am on my fourth breastfed-into-toddlerhood child over 15 years (didn't breastfeed the adopted one, alas) and I have always nursed wherever I happen to be and no one has ever once given me so much as the stink-eye, let alone approached me and been an ass. Of course I've been discreet when appropriate, finding a quiet corner if it seemed like the thing to do, but I have never nursed under a drape or cover of any kind and I have never nursed in a bathroom.
The whole "zomg men sexualize the breast waah waah waah" thing is a hoax. Again, in 15 years of off and on public breastfeeding and hanging out with other public breastfeeders I have never had a man be anything but polite. I'm calling bullshit.
I lived in Japan for a few years and I don't recall seeing lots of women breast feeding in public. But, it was quite awhile ago and maybe I just didn't notice, so I looked online. I found a forum concerning traveling and living in Japan. A western woman posted that she was going to be traveling in Japan with her baby and wanted to know the Japanese attitudes towards public breast-feeding. A woman with a Japanese name responded that it was generally frowned on, but most public accommodations and even trains had rooms set aside so woman can breast-feed as needed.
Of course several woman with western names jumped on and stated that that was nonsense. They breast-fed their kids in public in Japan and never had any problems.
Hint, just because a Japanese person doesn't complain about your behavior does not mean that they don't think you are a uncultured barbarian.
You know, I'm all for modesty and things having a time and place. I am sure the mother in question could have been a little more discreet.
But... the reaction of the church officials crosses over into the absurd. The idea that a woman breastfeeding a child should hardly be shocking. The image of Maria Lactans is ubiquitous in Christian art and you can find images of Mary breastfeeding the infant Jesus pretty much everywhere you look. Irony. It can be pretty ironic sometimes.
Churches used to have "crying baby rooms" so mothers could see and hear the service without disturbing others with their baby crying.
That would seem to be a good place for her to nurse, except I don't think this is about nursing.
I didn't see if "the baby room" has video of the service but it probably does.
This is all about attorneys and "feminist" activism.
"the reaction of the church officials crosses over into the absurd."
No, it didn't. They have a "baby room."
Too many laws. Women have been breastfeeding forever and yes there have been some disputes and incidents, but for the most part, people have been able to work it out without the Virginia Legislature.
I was asked to leave St. Peter's Basilica by a Vatican Swiss Guard in 1970 because my skirt was deemed too short. I went outside, hid behind a pillar, ripped out the hem and then returned, legs properly covered, to St. Peter's. Lesson learned.
When etiquette breaks down the law comes in with its boots.
Or, in this case, its boobs.
"makes the churchgoers seem prudish and ignorant of the law' Has been modus operandi from the elites in this country for over a century, going full throttle since the 50s.
Guaranteed if women of or church wanted to breastfeed we would have a certain room set up for that with TV monitors so they would not miss the sermon. I think the same would go for a synagogue.
Hint, just because a Japanese person doesn't complain about your behavior does not mean that they don't think you are a uncultured barbarian.
Exactly. These are the kinds of women who want their birthing experience videotaped and aired on YouTube. "Oh, childbirth is a natural experience". So is taking a shit but I'd rather not see it.
Hint, just because a Japanese person doesn't complain about your behavior does not mean that they don't think you are a uncultured barbarian.
Ha! Truth.
Just clicked on Washington Post article. That is no baby. That is a 19 month old toddler who can drink from a sippy cup.
Conversely, if you go to some other country, any country, there will be articles and TV clips telling the people there they need to do all kinds of strange things because that is how they do it in America now.
I am struck by the arrogant militancy of this gal and so many others about this issue. What's that all about? It not unlike the abrasive insistence that gays should be able to marry. It's less about the marriage and more about sticking it in the face of others who think the whole thing is abnormal.
If she is unwilling to be discrete, she has other motivations that are not particularly praiseworthy.
- Krumhorn
As someone who has lived all over the world, I can assure you America is the only place on earth where people get hysterical seeing mothers breastfeed their babies.
It's generally considered rude to breastfeed in the open in public in Japan (and I think in Korea, at least in the cities), which is why there are often rooms for mothers to go into to breastfeed, in public places, and women buy nursing capes (授乳ケープ) for those occasions when it is not. People might not get hysterical about it, but that's because generally people don't get hysterical on the other side either -- if someone quietly asks a new mother to cover up, the culture is such that it's much more like that she'll be embarrassed and try to cover up than that she will make a fuss and loudly proclaim her right to breastfeed in public.
Michael K said...
Churches used to have "crying baby rooms" so mothers could see and hear the service without disturbing others with their baby crying.
That would seem to be a good place for her to nurse, except I don't think this is about nursing.
I didn't see if "the baby room" has video of the service but it probably does.
This is all about attorneys and "feminist" activism.
This is exactly the comment I was thinking of posting. Why are people bringing infants to church services? My Methodist church does not have a "crying room" -- I see them frequently in Roman Catholic Churches -- we have a variety of nursery school rooms.
And whether or not this woman (plaintiff?) is herself an attorney; yeah, this is still all about the attorneys.
The question with any RFRA enforcement is whether the prohibited/mandated conduct is reasonably the subject of a genuine religious belief. Professor Althouse is right that this calls into question Virginia's RFRA. Although I think a successful defense based on RFRA might not be the slam-dunk she posits today.
Only in America she will make a fuss and loudly proclaim her right to breastfeed in public.
Especially if she is a lawyer or has one on retainer for these events. I wonder who she knows at WaPo ?
19 months! She wasn't kidding when she said the kid asked for milk. That's ridiculous! I thought the statutory limit was 6 months.
- Krumhorn
"you can find images of Mary breastfeeding the infant Jesus pretty much everywhere you look."
I have never seen one. You must frequent other types of churches than I do.
The wrong type of people are offended.
The left is getting desperate for outrage material.
"Except clearly she does not want the problem solved."
Bingo! For many White middle-class Liberals, the pursuit of social justice and attention-whoring are synonymous.
First, men who "identify" as women and women who "identify" as men can use any public restroom because complying with the simple, fairly bright line, policy might hurt their feelings or make them uncomfortable (feelings and comfort of everyone else be damned). Now, women who want to breastfeed in church without even a modicum of modesty can do so openly because covering up might hurt their feelings or make THEM uncomfortable (feelings and comfort of everyone else, church rules, common decency, and good manners be damned).
Truly cannot understand this position of WE get to do whatever we want because Feeelz, but YOU can go f*ck yourselves....
"But I think privately owned places — especially religious institutions — should be allowed to impose their own standards of modest." That's very nice of you.
In the larger scheme of things, this is just a pin prick in the culture war, a feminist "hippie mama" marshaling government power to force a religious institution to change, challenging the very notion that "privately owned places"--and God forbid, "especially religious ones"--provide any sort of sanctuary for unprogressive norms and conduct.
Ann would you breastfeed your baby while giving a lecture in your class on constitutional law at the University? Feminism is a sham. No wonder, it's posterchild was a drug addled whore who wanted an abortion so she can continue her whoring drug infested lifestyle.
That woman may be running afoul of the American Academy of Pediatrics, when she alleges breast feeding is "natural."
Medical and public health organizations recommend that mothers exclusively breastfeed for at least 6 months. This recommendation is based on evidence of health benefits for mothers and babies, as well as developmental benefits for babies. A spate of recent work challenges the extent of these benefits, and ethical criticism of breastfeeding promotion as stigmatizing is also growing.1 Building on this critical work, we are concerned about breastfeeding promotion that praises breastfeeding as the “natural” way to feed infants.
After all, there are "women" with no breasts and penises who might be offended.
I've wondered about pediatricians for years.
Public breastfeeding is not the done thing in Hispanic countries either, or this was the traditional point of view of the better class of society. What some Indian woman did was irrelevant. What is acceptable these days I dont know.
In the Philippines it was immodest to breastfeed in public, not in town anyway, except among mountain tribespeople and the like. Heck, it was immodest to bathe in the nude.
By the way, I didn't follow them, but some of the links you get when you put the phrase "breast feeding japan" into a search engine would seem to be quite uhm, different.
The nuns had a rule--no treats unless you brought enough for everyone in the room.
I think a mother would prefer a private area to feed a baby, regardless of whether it's breast or bottle. It's been a long time since my kids were that young, but from what I remember infants frequently tend to poop at some point near the end of the feeding, or soon afterward. The last thing I would want to be doing would be struggling to get out of a pew with a whiffy baby. I guess you could just stay there and use the prie-dieu as a changing table. Since pooping is natural, no one should object.
The crying room in Church is usually to the side of the altar, behind a glass partition. Video is too high tech.
Oh the horror of the Virginia law that stigmatizes women without vaginas. All women are equal, even those with dicks...
Study: Describing Breastfeeding as ‘Natural’ Is Unethical Because It Reinforces Gender Roles
https://heatst.com/culture-wars/study-describing-breastfeeding-as-natural-is-unethical-because-it-reinforces-gender-roles/
It’s “ethically inappropriate” for government and medical organizations to describe breastfeeding as “natural” because the term enforces rigid notions about gender roles, claims a new study in Pediatrics.
“Coupling nature with motherhood… can inadvertently support biologically deterministic arguments about the roles of men and women in the family (for example, that women should be the primary caretaker,” the study says.
Many of the people denouncing and deriding the church members as prudish and demanding that they get over their ignorant and unnatural concerns for uncovered breast feeding are the same people who get upset at microaggressions that "trigger" others. They're all for violating traditional societal norms; what they can't stand are people who haven't already accepted the norms they wish to force upon society.
Here's the highest-rated comment at WaPo:
A series of false statements.
I notice the MSM article used a very discrete photo, so they implicitly agree that showing wet nipples in public in uncouth.
Annie Peguero says:
"Positive energy can heal the universe"
"Gratitude and love are filling my soul."
"There is sunshine in my soul today"
"When we choose to follow our heart ❤️ positive energy will flow- no matter what obstacles we face."
"I didn't want to go to the press or work with an attorney about being a victim of a breastfeeding law violation at church---- but the Washington Post will be here in seven minutes"
...so I did!
Because the press and lawyers are sources of positive energy and soul sunshine.
Knowing that the "baby" is 19 months old brings this into focus. Her nipple was exposed most of the time because the kid was just taking a sip here and there and playing most of the time.
My church has a nursing lounge. I used it because it was nice to get away from my other kids for some peace and quiet. Ha! I hardly ever used a shield when I nursed, unless I was in close proximity with a lot of other people. It makes everyone more comfortable.
And one other thing, I wasn't aware men were responsible for sexualizing breasts. I guess that woman who made the comment would be perfectly fine with her partner never touching her breasts again. Right?
"When etiquette breaks down the law comes in with its boots.
Or, in this case, its boobs."
It's all peaceful until a feminist lawyer comes in with her jackboobs.
Mary Beth said...
I think a mother would prefer a private area to feed a baby, regardless of whether it's breast or bottle. It's been a long time since my kids were that young, but from what I remember infants frequently tend to poop at some point near the end of the feeding, or soon afterward. The last thing I would want to be doing would be struggling to get out of a pew with a whiffy baby. I guess you could just stay there and use the prie-dieu as a changing table. Since pooping is natural, no one should object.
4/27/17, 9:18 AM
Why do you think they call them pews?
Some people go to church in order to indulge in their self righteousness.
"As someone who has lived all over the world, I can assure you America is the only place on earth where people get hysterical seeing mothers breastfeed their babies. "
So if American were to become blase about exposed breasts, they would be appropriating a whole lot of other cultures?
She appears to be a New Ager. Explains a lot.
Since she's a lawyer and a hippy mama, I'm guessing she did this as a stunt, not because she wants to participate in religious services. I doubt she's even a member, but even if she is, does she have a *legal* right to be there once she's been directed to another room?
A 19mo baby does not need to eat during services, either. She's just harassing the church. I've nursed all my infants during services, with a shawl. It's no hardship to cover up, and no one has ever said "boo" about it. But toddlers can wait an hour. Good grief. We don't even bare our shoulders (most of us) in our congregation, let alone our breasts. That's our culture. Are we not entitled to it?
In the video, the woman describes her decision to give the child milk to soothe her (after she had become fussy while separated from mom in the nursery) and then on camera the toddler comes up for feeding on demand while also clutching a lollipop.
While I'm not keen on criticizing other people's parenting methods, I can't help but wonder if she realizes that there are other ways of soothing babies and toddlers that don't involve feeding.
"Peguero said she has only attended the nondenominational church a half-dozen times, but she found it at a critical moment in her life.
She went for the first time in January on her birthday, hours after she broadcast a live video on Facebook asking for help to find her birth mother."
So she is a well-established attention seeker.
"Some people go to church in order to indulge in their self righteousness.' Not true at my church, we have anti self-righteousness checkpoints at the entrance to the church. We make you fill out a questionnerre, give you a lie detector test and now have sophisticated electro-brian wave machines. We also have sin checkpoints as well, anyone who is a sinner is not allowed into the church.
Our church has a room for this.
I think most churches do.
The iconography of Mary nursing the baby Jesus (and depiction of her squirting milk toward St Bernard) are not at all common in modern Catholic art. Wikipedia article describes a period in the Middle Ages and then a move away from this after the Council of Trent; not sure if that is accurate but it sounds about right.
Add to that the fact as Althouse points out that Marian iconography in general is not part of Protestant (or evangelical) culture at all, so that the charge of hypocrisy here is just silly.
Another selfish ----- who uses her child as a tool. That kid is now immortalized and not in a good way. We can now look to everyone's history and that says danger! Danger! Your future MIL has a screw loose. Back away slowly.
Where's the dad?
CStanley said...
The iconography of Mary nursing the baby Jesus...
Seeing Red said...
Where's the dad?
The Holy Ghost was just a splooge stooge.
She should join her local mosque, there women are not even allowed in the same room as men so breastfeeding in the designated "female" only area should not cause a problem. Just hope she remembers to cover her hair before entering.
Ignorance is Bliss said...
The Holy Ghost was just a splooge stooge.
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit = The Three Stooges.
Breast feeding scarf
My daughters used something like this, it worked very well.
I hope her Marine husband comes back from overseas and kicks some prude ass.
My friend and I were both asked to leave a restaurant where we were each nursing our babies at the table. We'd each brought along poncho-type garments for just this purpose. The whole operation took place under the ponchos. No trace of skin was ever revealed. It hadn't occurred to either of us that anybody would mind if we fed the babies, when we were being that careful to be discreet. However, the restaurant owner -- whom we both knew slightly in the way everybody knows everybody in a small community -- was trembling with moral outrage. She said that even though she agreed that nothing could be seen, EVERYONE KNEW WHAT WE WERE DOING UNDER THERE. (Please excuse the typographical shouting. Just trying to represent her tone.)
It was one of only two or three restaurants in the little community and of course we couldn't go back there, with or without babies, so our dining options were severely limited thereafter.
But that was almost 35 years ago.
Mrs.Whatsit,
I recall those backward days years ago when it was thought to be almost a sexual faux pas to nurse in public, even with a drape. I'm glad our society has progressed since then.
Wow Mrs Whatsit...that is really awful but funny at the same time. What a maroon.
Inga said...
Mrs.Whatsit,
I recall those backward days years ago when it was thought to be almost a sexual faux pas to nurse in public, even with a drape. I'm glad our society has progressed since then.
Has it really? That crude Donald Trump is President. I'll even bet a few of those "let me pull this boob out so I can nurse in public" women voted for him; they don't have any clue how conflicted they are. Not Annie Peguero, of course.
"Exactly what is it about a breast that has you guys upset? It is not a sex organ. It was made for women to feed their babies. The fact that it has been sexualized by men does not make it a sex organ."
Yet men can get criticized if they don't give them adequate attention during sex..even denying
breast orgasms...
Seeing Red, the father is a marine currently deployed overseas.
I'm not so sure artwork is a relevant metric for appropriate real life exposure.
But if it is, maybe dress codes should be suitably relaxed wherever nudes are on display.
Don't you have a blogger topic for "let's take a closer look at those breasts"
The thing that really upsets me, is those women who eat corn nuts in church.
Have you ever smelled the breath of a woman eating corn nuts.
Holy Jesus indeed...
Back when my wife was nursing, she had a couple run-ins with women like the one in the article, people we called Tit-Nazis. There was no arguing, or even talking, through their armor of self-righteous Breast-is-Best Worldview.
And Nursing at 19 months is for the mother always, never for the child.
Excuse me while I just not care.
My basic idea: leave me the fuck alone.
My next idea: what exactly makes you so important?
My further idea: why can't your special idea get along with everything else?
All this self-righteous BS that fails this simple screen.
In New York state it is legal for women to go topless--should they then be allowed to go topless in churches? I think not.
I've been to dozens of countries too, but I can't remember anyone breastfeeding in public, at least not openly. However, when my wife, who is European, had to breastfeed our son in central Vienna, we found an out of the way plaza and she covered up. The idea the nursing mothers around the world are whipping out their boobs willy nilly to breastfeed their kids is ridiculous.
Owen said...
Excuse me while I just not care.
My basic idea: leave me the fuck alone.
My next idea: what exactly makes you so important?
My further idea: why can't your special idea get along with everything else?"
Yep. As my mother used to say, "some people act like they're the only people in the world."
It's so unexpected that a church would place behavioral restrictions on a member..
I don't really care whether a mother breast feeds in public or not, uncovered or not, but I sure as heck care that the State of Virginia thinks it has the right to dictate what kind of behavior a church must permit during its worship. That is outrageous! A church is not a public accommodation. It has no legal obligation of admit anyone, and its spiritual obligation of hospitality and evangelism is no business of the state.
I thought that is what they were for. Nice to look at, but - yeah - functional, too.
A church is not a public accommodation. It has no legal obligation of admit anyone, and its spiritual obligation of hospitality and evangelism is no business of the state.
True. And if maintaining autonomy requires forfeiture of tax exemption then so be it.
I was unaware that there were special 'Mom's Rights'
I was once in a department store, shopping in the men's department, came around a table, and found a woman breast feeding. Not exactly in some quiet corner of the men's department, but Pretty much in the middle, near a cash wrap, very much chosen to be in people's faces, "Look at me, but don't you dare complain!"
Not like there wasn't a huge WOMEN'S section, with comfortable chairs. Plus, the ladies' room had a nice comfy lounge off of it, with VERY comfortable chairs, and chaises, and handy tables so you wouldn't have to put your bag on the floor -- no nursing in the actual restroom, more like in a living room.
Her choice of locations was about making a "statement" than about nursing her child.
I'm intrigued by the idea that themes in religious art convey permission.
That's why I stay out of Catholic Churches. With all those crucifixes it's a dangerous place!
Really?
Nobody cares that men can be forced to register as a sex offender for using his penis in a non-sexual, natural way?
Isn't this a HUGE difference from what this women (and breast feeding activists in general) want for women who breast feed?
Maybe breast feeding women should be arrested for indecent exposure and register as sex offenders. That would be equality.
A Naval Aviator is flying on an airliner. The woman next to him is holding an infant whom she begins to breast feed as the plane descends.
Being an officer and a gentleman, he takes no notice and after landing, begins to help her with all the gear that an infant needs.
She thanks him and adds she hoped she didn't embarrass him but her doctor told her that feeding the baby would protect his ears as the cabin pressure changes.
The aviator replies, "And to think I've been chewing gum all these years"
@ Lee
It was a Nordstrom's wasn't it? When I was nursing, I would only go to malls with a Nordstrom because the lounge was so comfortable.
try that in a mosque, good luck.
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