AND: Here's Scott Adams discussing what's up with Donald Trump and the Sweden comments (and using some software I'm interested in getting and using something like this):
ADDED: There's a problem with the media, granted. I am looking at that. But there's also a problem with Trump that I see in "you look at what's happening last night in Sweden." I understand the explanation. He meant that if you looked at TV the previous night, you could have seen a segment on Tucker Carlson that was about Sweden. That eliminates the confusion caused by his slightly screwy language that had lots of people wondering about something that supposedly had just happened in Sweden. But it does show a problem with Trump that's worse than his somewhat word-salad-y approach to speaking. It shows how TV-oriented he is.
Trump did not instinctively, easily notice that he needed to say I saw a TV show about something last night. He comes across as having the delusion that when you look at the TV, you're looking through a window onto the world. I'm not saying he actually has that delusion, but he naturally falls into figurative speech and would say — un-self-consciously — I'm seeing X when he's only watching X on TV. And I am worried that he's not keeping reality securely separate from what is seen on TV. (Remember when Trump said that he "watched... thousands and thousands of people... cheering" in Jersey City as the WTC fell?)
Trump criticizes the media as fake and distorting, but then he seems to be the guy staring at the screen to see what's going on in the world. Notice how often he uses phrases like "you look at what's happening." I can't look at what's happening outside of my immediate surroundings. I have to watch TV, which I wish were more precise and fact-based. But I maintain my awareness that I'm getting these words and pictures through a filter. Does Trump not maintain his awareness? Is he just choosing the filter he likes and staring inanely through Tucker Carlson's window?!
BUT: What if Trump's TV is some freaky Twilight-Zone thing and he can see the future?
Just two days after President Trump provoked widespread consternation by seeming to imply, incorrectly, that immigrants had perpetrated a recent spate of violence in Sweden, riots broke out in a predominantly immigrant neighborhood in the northern suburbs of Sweden's capital, Stockholm....
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202 comments:
1 – 200 of 202 Newer› Newest»I miss the bear every time this comes up. Duh.
Been laughing at the media for its blatant and deliberate conflating every thing Trump says woth something untrue.
This article is great.
I am truly looking forward to the current media model's demise.
Few things would be better for this country than the demise of the Lying New York Times.and by the way, I have called them that for 40 years. As a bonus, the financial destruction of its owners the anti Americaan Sulzbergers would be so satisfying.
The furor about the Trump presidency has gotten to the point that people are literally (and I don't mean figuratively literally, I mean literally literally) seeing and hearing things that aren't there, just as in the video.
Dancing Bear from Captain Kangaroo Goin' Round in Circles
When you are always, 24/7 wee wee'd up, it's hard to hear clearly--much less think clearly.
I'm beginning to think that Trump is using the old sleep deprivation technique to wear his tormentors out. They can't sleep thinking about the latest "outrage" they thought they heard him say. Go on long enough and they will confess to anything. Who needs waterboards when you've got a sleep deprived press?
Of course they could clean the dust out of their ears, grow up and maybe do their job--but it's not likely to happen.
"If there is a bear . . . "
(Apparently depends on what you are looking for.)
And they are going to continue to miss the dancing bear.
The Diplomad has a new website:
Madness and Chaos: the Left in the Time of Trump
The media hears what it WANTS to hear. They take out of context, distort and conflate. Then they broadcast it to the idiots in the public who take the media's blathering as being truthful.
For instance Trump did NOT say that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose voters. He said that someone ELSE said that and he then repeated it in a joking manner. I know a sort of fine distinction, but nevertheless....he did not make that claim. That doesn't matter to the media, though, because they have the agenda to make their bias to be the truth.
Trump's style of speaking is out of the norm for the polished, rehearsed, scripted professional politician. He speaks extemporaneously and wanders from topic to topic, thought to thought as do many regular/deplorable people do in everyday conversation. It isn't difficult to follow the train(s) of thought if you don't already have an agenda where you want to find fault.
So. The media can't keep up because Trump is not acting in the pre approved scripted manner. The rest of us can figure it out without the media to "guide" us.
I don't buy this--when you say "last night in Sweden" it at least means you saw something that happened, last night, in Sweden. And if it's in the context of discussing terror attacks, it's not unreasonable to thing that's what he's referring to.
Or do you usually say things like "last night, in Delaware" and refer to an ongoing matter like failing employment or the spread of Zika?
Just as Trump bashers are often too focused on "Trump the evil" or "Trump the stupid" sometimes Trump defenders can be too fixated on "must defend everything from Trump all the time".
17 Jan 2017. Over dinner at Mar-A-Lago:
Trump: What is the latest terror event?
Kushner: I like these meatballs. Where are they from?
Melania: Sweden
Trump: Sweden. Yes, all those immigrant terrorists.
18 Jan 2017, Melbourne, Florida:
Trump: Look at what's happening last night in Sweden .... blah, blah, blah
The media is concentrating on the narrative, which is now not based on reality; and their efforts are not a distraction; they're a cruel, vindictive effort to destroy a President; without any regard for the method.
While many in the media have integrity, the unwillingness to condemn, with consequences, leaves all as culpable, and the lack of trust is abysmal.
Unknown, leave the dialog to Lazlo.
"I don't buy this--when you say "last night in Sweden" it at least means you saw something that happened, last night, in Sweden. And if it's in the context of discussing terror attacks, it's not unreasonable to thing that's what he's referring to."
He said "last night in Sweden" referring to a report he heard the night before about Sweden and their ongoing rape problem, he wasn't saying there was a terror attack last night.
I'm afraid I don't see the relation. In the first place, the claim is that the Media see what is not there (Trump the Idiot, Trump the Liar), not that they miss what is there (Trump the Dancing Bear?). In the second place, if you don't try to count the white team's passes, it's easy to see the bear. The point of the exercise is that paying careful attention to one aspect of experience prevents paying attention to other aspects. But that really has no connection to the problem the Media have with Trump. They just hate him, and don't want him to be President. Just like I hate them, and don't want them to be the Media.
Don't overthink this. It's about hatred.
The Trump Trasher Panels compete to test market new ways to twist Trump's words into shameful events. And they really respect the best trash talkers, indicating that it must be hard to do it right.
Saying Trump lied is about all that works for them. But then we are reminded that Trump really never said it the way they pretend to misunderstand it.
I suggest they better stick to small hands and orange hair funnies. Low energy will not work on him, so they try the reverse it as he goes so fast his Adult Advisers cannot restrain him.
But wait. The new one is he plays golf too much.
"You look at what's happening in Germany, you look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this. Sweden. They took in large numbers. They're having problems like they never thought possible. You look at what's happening in Brussels. You look at what's happening all over the world. Take a look at Nice. Take a look at Paris."
Read that, there are no words "terrorist attack" in that direct quote. To say that trump said there was a terrorist attack last night in Sweden is a blatant fabrication. You hear what you want to hear.
Unknown the helpless (in some sort of attempt at being funny): "Trump: Look at what's happening last night in Sweden .... blah, blah, blah"
Gee, since you brought it up, what was happening in Sweden last night?
Oh, gee, riots in Stockholm again. Gee, I wonder in which area and why?
Oh, gee, as expected: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-20/
Unknown, thanks for directing us to this evidence that the left, as in Rotherham, has been busy busy busy covering for their islamist pals.
I don't know how much Trump is paying you but whatever it is probably isn't enough.
Carry on!
"I don't buy this--when you say "last night in Sweden" it at least means you saw something that happened, last night, in Sweden."
I got it without being baffled.
People hear what they want to hear. Trump's unorthodox and not-great speaking style causes issues because his mind often moves faster than his mouth. Thus, he drops the Fox News/Tucker Carlson fact from the narrative because he already knows it, but forgets that many in his audience do not.
He's probably rolling his eyes when the media writes such nonsense, or gets all smug and snarky in their usual contempt for the patois of the common man.
"In war, truth is the first casualty." -Aeschylus
“If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed.” -Mark Twain
Good Analysis by Adams. I hope the Dem's don't watch it.
It's really simple. Trump misplaced the "last night."
"You look at what's happening in Germany, you look [last night*] at what's happening [ ... ] in Sweden."
*The Tucker Carlson segment.
Oh, gee, riots in Stockholm again. Gee, I wonder in which area and why?
Oh, gee, as expected: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-20
So is Trump Cassandra?
Scott Adams is smarter than the 447 super-duper DNC non-elected delegates who determine who the next chairman of the DNC will be this week.
I'm hoping its Keith Ellison. Nothing like a liberal Muslim from Minnesota to guide your party.
Didn't that elven minute Scott Adams video seem "rambling and long-winded"?
" The new one is he plays golf too much."
Really, King Putt left office just a month ago and the media are going to tell us that Trump plays too much golf?
That's really desperation.
Brando said...
I don't buy this--when you say "last night in Sweden" it at least means you saw something that happened, last night, in Sweden. And if it's in the context of discussing terror attacks, it's not unreasonable to thing that's what he's referring to.
Well that has to do with Trump's bizarre (what Althouse describes as "short hand") way of speaking. If you analyze his public speaking, he's clearly skimming over sentence fragments. Listening to him can sometimes seem like listening to a radio broadcast that keeps cutting in and out. For example, the normal way to describe something may be "Last night on Fox News I saw a disturbing report about something in Sweden" or whatever. Trump just lossily compresses all that down to just "last night in Sweden".
It makes it really weird and problematic if your trying to parse his speech. It's the old "seriously, not literally" versus "literally, not seriously" trap.
In this instance I don't think it's so much a case of missing the bear as it is of wanting you to miss the bear. And unlike in the film, the bear is easy to see. Their mission is to get you to unsee it, and that's getting a lot harder for them lately.
Caught NPR yesterday afternoon playing dumb with the same "last night in Sweden" idiocy the rest of the idiotic usual suspects are being idiotic about.
Any normal person who's been paying attention to European news knew what he was talking about, so it was interesting to listen to these two NPR commenters do their little comedy sketch of two people with a weird cognitive disorder that makes them unable to process language normally. The shtick is that they can only latch on to discontented phrases and analyze them for meaning that isn't there, but never understand what everybody else gets.
Now it's possible that they're so far gone in cognitive dissonance, denial, whatever that they really can't "see the bear". I don't think so. Like the Swedish government playing along with them and playing dumb, they can see the bear perfectly well. They are trying to keep you from seeing the bear. And since the bear is becoming ever more obvious, they look ever more crazy and stupid in their attempts to do that.
"He said "last night in Sweden" referring to a report he heard the night before about Sweden and their ongoing rape problem, he wasn't saying there was a terror attack last night."
That may be what he meant, but putting the words in that order it's not unreasonable to read that as meaning "something happened last night in Sweden". If I said "this morning downtown" are you going to automatically assume I meant this morning I saw something on the news about something downtown, or infer that I meant something actually happened downtown?
If you're saying "his speaking style means he's going to leave out a lot of words from time to time" that's fine, but don't pretend it's ridiculous to interpret those words how they actually came out.
Didn't we get laughs out of Obama's "57 states" remark some years back, when he meant 50 states plus non-state caucuses and primaries?
"Well that has to do with Trump's bizarre (what Althouse describes as "short hand") way of speaking. If you analyze his public speaking, he's clearly skimming over sentence fragments. Listening to him can sometimes seem like listening to a radio broadcast that keeps cutting in and out. For example, the normal way to describe something may be "Last night on Fox News I saw a disturbing report about something in Sweden" or whatever. Trump just lossily compresses all that down to just "last night in Sweden"."
That's what I assume he meant.
Brando: "If you're saying "his speaking style means he's going to leave out a lot of words from time to time" that's fine, but don't pretend it's ridiculous to interpret those words how they actually came out.
Didn't we get laughs out of Obama's "57 states" remark some years back, when he meant 50 states plus non-state caucuses and primaries?"
Fine.
Nothing is happening in Sweden.
At all.
Ever.
You win.
Congrats.
Brando: Sure and Austrians speak Austrian. Presidents misspeak. but it's ok for some and not others.
Whatever we do, let's not have a discussion about significant muslim immigration in western nations and the economic and political impacts of that.
Trump was inprecise!!eleventy!!
Brando focusing on what really matters.
Well played.
I believe the Democratic Party is still trying to choose between Keith Ellison and Tom Perez for "chair" of the DNC. Granted that the DNC has not amounted to much in the age of Obama - he was not a Party sort of person; rather a delegate from the Annenberg foundation - but they need to get that turned around if they wish to win elections again.
That these two are the only visible candidates indicates it is going to be a while.
Adam's best line: "It's hard to get that deep into another person's mind."
But the Media's Trump Trashers are insisting now that Trump's mind is Antisemitic like Hitler for not condemning Anti Semites every time he speaks. But he condemns Jihadi Muslims who are today's Nazis. But then they also hate him for doing that to such Dominant Religion that has the First Amendment Rights of US Citizens in the Ninth Circuit.
It sounds like Adam's mic is too close (boomy) and also too far away (echoes).
Nonapod: Trump just lossily compresses all that down to just "last night in Sweden".
Lol. Good description. Sometimes it sounds more like a trading-pidgin to me, though.
Is it really "weird and problematic" for the intended audience, though? It annoys me in its sloppiness, but his point prevails: not only does the intended audience (or any casual listener up on the news) know what he's talking about, but he gets the MSM to talk about what they don't want to talk about, and make asses of themselves trying to "fact check" away the immigrant/refugee debacle in Europe.
Unlike the "Trump is a 4-D chess master" analysts, I don't think he does it on purpose. Always seems to work out that way, though.
The media is not missing anything. The media is intentionally playing to what remains of its customer base. If the NYT of WP were to begin an article by writing, "Although we disagree with President Trump on many issues, we agree with him on this point . . .," there would be a revolt among the readership.
Look at the comments on any given article in the NYT or WP. When is the last time you saw more than 1 in 20 support the new president? If your readers hate the president, you need to give them what they want, or lose them. If you are somewhere between neutral and supportive of Trump, you probably stopped reading the NYT and WP a long time ago.
If balance on a scale of 0 to 10 is 5, and your customers are normally distributed, you're fine reporting at 4, 5, to 6. On the other hand, if your customers are all distributed between 9 and 10, then you are all but forced to report at 9.5. Anything else alienates too many of your customers.
"Nothing is happening in Sweden."
Sure, I can see how you got that from what I said.
Brando: ...but don't pretend it's ridiculous to interpret those words how they actually came out.
Actually it is ridiculous fussily parsing Trump's sloppy speech as if it were the thing that mattered. Trump isn't going to start speaking precisely, and the usual suspects wouldn't stop playing dumb about uncomfortable topics even if he did.
"It shows how TV-oriented he is."
Almost everyone is TV oriented these days Althouse.
" They took in large numbers. They're having problems like they never thought possible."
This is a clarification of what he meant and a true statement right in there clarifying the supposed falsehood. You only miss that if you want to. So, the problem I have with Adam's video is that it's just innacurate to say that Trump said something untrue. Also, it's not that they call him "Hitler" so much, but that they call him a liar, which is in many cases a lie itself, forced by bias. That's what half the country sees. Trump being lied about out of partisanship in the media. That's why we give him a higher trustworthy rating than the media.
"One night in Sweden and the world's your oyster...I can feel the devil walking next to me."
It's common for me when I have a problem and am working with an unsympathetic audience to make a purposeful small error in the description of the problem to them. It's genius on my part. Nothing gets their attention faster. They are lightening focused on the problem because they are sure that I am wrong. Then in the discussion if we reach agreement I will say they are right and I was wrong. It's a win-win. I didn't know the solution to the problem. I needed help from people not inclined to help me. It doesn't always work but there are other tactics to use when it fails. Use the power for good. not Google good but Trump good.
Good Analysis by Adams. I hope the Dem's don't watch it.
@WisRich, if they do watch it they won't get it, because there's too much math and math is hard.
(Yes, I know. There is no math.)
Trump has read self help books and applied them successfully. You can see mindfulness techniques and Tony Robbinsisms in his words. I imagine he had read a lot of Dale Carnegie. And Zig Ziglar.
I didn't listen to the speech as he made it, but on reading the actual transcript I have two comments directed at Brando mostly in this thread:
Yes, it is possible to misunderstand what Trump meant, but it doesn't end there. Here is my problem with the media in this case- one literally has to act like a low IQ moron to not understand that it was an unintentional mistake after he explained what he meant in a more rigorous way with the tweet. The actual speech and the twitter clarification make it all but certain that he wasn't talking about some specific thing that had happened in Sweden the night before, but was instead referring to the Carlsen piece. I would be deeply embarrassed to continue to attack him over this because it would make me look stupid, not Trump.
This is common fault with a lot of partisans on both sides- they spend so much time preaching to the hardcore choir that they lose sight of protecting their very own credibility and intellectual reputation. I sort of get it for an internet comments section since most people post anonymously under pseudonyms, but I don't get it for media people on television or those who run their blogs- it is like shooting yourself in the foot over and over.
I appreciate your basic analysis on this tic in Trump's thinking, professor. And, again, Trump is more of a case in point than any kind of outlier. Many of the serious conversations concerning history that I have with others will include an observation of theirs that begins "It's like when [X] did [Y] to [Z]..." and I'll realize that historical "knowledge" here is being bullied by the vivid fictions of television or film.
Even if one is dedicated to not thinking in this way, the seduction of the screen as an accurate reflection of the real is incredibly strong.
Tucker Carlson is advising the Trump regime.
robother said...
"One night in Sweden and the world's your oyster...I can feel the devil walking next to me."
I don't think Trump gets his kicks above the waistline.
"(Trump) meant that if you looked at TV the previous night, you could have seen a segment on Tucker Carlson that was about Sweden...it does show a problem with Trump that's worse than his somewhat word-salad-y approach to speaking. It shows how TV-oriented he is."
Given how often Trump repeats his mantra that the media lies, isn't he hoist by his own petard when referring to something he saw on Tucker Carlson as evidence of the great threat of immigrants coming to America?
"Actually it is ridiculous fussily parsing Trump's sloppy speech as if it were the thing that mattered."
The whole point of the linked post was that it was insane for the media to assume Trump was referring to a specific incident the night before. Looking at what he actually said, it's a perfectly reasonable read of what he said.
"Here is my problem with the media in this case- one literally has to act like a low IQ moron to not understand that it was an unintentional mistake after he explained what he meant in a more rigorous way with the tweet."
After he clarified it, yes I agree it's silly to keep going on about it (though I give comedians a pass, that's what they do). I was just referring to the initial statement itself.
The thing you are all missing is that we are talking about how rape in Sweden was almost nonexistent in the 70's and now has some of the highest rates in the western world. We are talking about why and we are talking about how the government and media are covering it up.
"but don't pretend it's ridiculous to interpret those words how they actually came out."
No, it is Ridiculous and dishonest. Trump didn't say there was a "terrorist attack in Sweden" last night. PERIOD.
The MSM and the Swedish PM made that up. And then attacked Trump for being "crazy" and a "liar".
Of course, large numbers of liberals/leftists are morons, so I can see why you can't read words in context or just imagine stuff that you want to imagine.
This seems to be a problem with recent presidents. I seem to remember President Obama always saying, I only learned about this today when I saw it on TV .
This is no different than the MSM saying Trump was talking about Kelly menstruating. All he said was "whatever". He never said anything else. He also never attacked Ben Carson's religion. He just said "I don't know" when asked about his religion.
The MSM has been doing this for 1.5 years!
The P. T. Barnum School teaches Ring Master DJT to talk about the recent images in the audiences mind, which always means on TV last night. It's a Three Ring Mind with lion tamers, Trapeese Ladies, Elephants dancing and clowns on the side.
Now go directly to Jail, Do not pass Go.
Nothing clairvoyant about Trump. He sees the same news reports about Sweden that many of us see and that the MSM choose to ignore.
Brando,
I know I am not the normal level reader- I can see how one might interpret the original unclarified statement, but even then, given the entire sentence about Sweden and the context around it, I would not have even assumed he was referring to any specific terrorist attack the night before. I would have simply searched for news stories about Sweden the night before, and would probably have found the Tucker Carlsen segment as one of the top search items. I think journalists are just too fucking lazy and/or stupid to think and act the way I do when confronted with something that is unclear on a first and second reading.
However, what do they do when corrected? Double down. Your reference to the 57 states was a good one because it addresses the problem from other direction- any fairly decent parsing of Obama's statement in its context made it clear that "states" was being used in a too broad fashion for the given audience, but it didn't mean Obama really believed Guam to be a state in the same sense as Hawaii is.
It's gotta drive Democrats crazy that they keep yelling how wrong Trump is and he keeps ending up right.
"I'm seeing X when he's only watching X on TV." As opposed to the rest of us who see it with out own eyes? Or who just "see" things or "know" things because we're read some text put together by somebody or other?
Robert Cook will soon explain how rapes committed by Muslims aren't really rapes 'cuz capitalism or something.
"However, what do they do when corrected? Double down. Your reference to the 57 states was a good one because it addresses the problem from other direction- any fairly decent parsing of Obama's statement in its context made it clear that "states" was being used in a too broad fashion for the given audience, but it didn't mean Obama really believed Guam to be a state in the same sense as Hawaii is."
There's clearly a double standard there--we saw it when any time Bush flubbed a line it was a sign of inner stupidity, but if Obama (or Clinton before him) did so it was barely reported (and I took conservatives' harping on "57 states" to be less an argument that Obama really thought Guam was a state than a callout that the media gives him leeway that Bush didn't get).
"Trump didn't say there was a 'terrorist attack in Sweden' last night. PERIOD."
He said, "You look at what's happening last night in Sweden." That sounds like he was referring to a specific event, unquestionably. That leads to the clear implication (and reasonable assumption) that the specific event was a terrorist event of some kind.
There was no event of any kind; he was referring to a story he saw on tv "last night."
Either he is too inarticulate to speak clearly or oblivious/uncaring of the effect and meaning his words as President will have on others, or he says things purposely to inflame emotions without regard for their accuracy. Whichever it is, this is a dangerous and inexcusable trait in someone in high office. It's typical of his decades working as a sleazy real estate operator, where the other guy's misunderstanding of what is said is the other guy's loss.
Cook said:
Given how often Trump repeats his mantra that the media lies, isn't he hoist by his own petard when referring to something he saw on Tucker Carlson as evidence of the great threat of immigrants coming to America?
Only if you are so dense that you don't understand the difference between reporting the "news" and editorializing or opinion media.
The first is supposed to be "news". Reporting the actual facts and letting the reader draw their own conclusions. The latter is to be explicitly opinion or the editor drawing his/her/its own conclusions.
The problem is that the first option. News has begun reporting it own conclusions and biases as being the facts.
Tucker Carlson makes it quite quite clear that his program is not a news program but like other talking heads on Fox (Hannity, O'Reilly, and long gone Me-again Kelly) is an opinion program.
"Robert Cook will soon explain how rapes committed by Muslims aren't really rapes 'cuz capitalism or something."
With regard to what I said, this is a non-sequitur.
Angelyne,
"In this instance I don't think it's so much a case of missing the bear as it is of wanting you to miss the bear. "
Of course. The uniform nature of the autistic reading, or hearing, of these things is just part of the coordinated propaganda campaign. NPR is an element of this propaganda system.
They understand his point perfectly well, but they want to divert from his point.
Robert Cook: "With regard to what I said, this is a non-sequitur."
With regard solely to what you just wrote immediately before my comment "this" was indeed a non sequitur.
With regard to your body of "work" on this blog "this" is perfectly on target.
Or did history begin anew today?
I read that some TV station in Sweden sent out a reporter and camera crew to the area that is described as a no-go area in Malmo in order to make a monkey out of Trump and the reporter was attacked as soon as he stepped out of the truck. They barely got away with substantial damage to the truck. I'll bet that the footage didn't air, if they were filming.
Of course, Obama was constantly "finding out about things from the news".
"Cook said:
'Given how often Trump repeats his mantra that the media lies, isn't he hoist by his own petard when referring to something he saw on Tucker Carlson as evidence of the great threat of immigrants coming to America?'
"Only if you are so dense that you don't understand the difference between reporting the 'news' and editorializing or opinion media."
Where has Trump made this distinction in his remarks on the media? He says the "media lies," it provides "fake news." He's not referring to editorials or opinion pieces, he's referring to what the media reports as facts, as "news." His reference to a story on Tucker Carlson as the basis for his inflammatory remarks is idiotic and self-canceling.
Meanwhile, Rioting Breaks Out In Sweden
Robert Cook: Given how often Trump repeats his mantra that the media lies, isn't he hoist by his own petard when referring to something he saw on Tucker Carlson as evidence of the great threat of immigrants coming to America?
If politics were an airless logic class or a blog thread, perhaps. (See, e.g.: you and Brando still sperging out on "Sweden last night" after everything of any possible interest that could be said about it has been said about it.)
That is, if the vigorous metaphor of being hoist on one's own petard were appropriate to such no-stakes, nerd-debate environments. It isn't. Because petards wouldn't explode in an airless environment hahahaha. (Sorry. Couldn't help myself.)
In real-world politics, if I wanted to see him hoist on his own petard regarding immigration, I'd be looking for incidents of say, murder and manslaughter among the illegals that have surely worked on his building projects, or something like a "Cohen and Grigsby" type smoking gun on corruption in H2(?) hiring for his resorts. Probably wouldn't provide enough real-world hoisting power, but your example provides none.
This week there was a tragedy in Kansas. Ten thousand people dead. . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjO8Qc5s1fY
rcocean: Meanwhile, Rioting Breaks Out In Sweden
There Trump goes again, inciting violence with his weird incomprehensible speech.
Yup Sweden's rulers might not think Trump did them a favor, but he did.
Kicking and screaming they will be dragged, but the world took notice for a brief second.
"That sounds like he was referring to a specific event, unquestionably. That leads to the clear implication (and reasonable assumption)"
Yeah, and that leads me to the reasonable assumption you're a fucking moron because of the clear implication that you can't read English in context.
"'It shows how TV-oriented he is.'
"Almost everyone is TV oriented these days Althouse."
I think that's her polite way of saying he doesn't read.
Althouse: "Notice how often he uses phrases like "you look at what's happening."
Seriusly? Althouse, that's a very common expression. It's like asking someone "See what I mean?"
It means "understand" or "comprehend." Nothing to do with the eyes.
Anyone who has paid even cursory attention to Malmö knows those remarks weren't inflammatory, Cookie.
But you keep using the flamethrower.
I think all presidents have those special TV's that see the future. Obama. however, was too busy watching ESPN.
Cook, the piece on carlson was about the Swedish government and correct-thinking people ignoring and dismissing the Muslim problem in their midst. That was the "news" portion of the piece. It was not about rapes or violence.
It's expected, but no less amusing, to see the strenuous but vain efforts by Trump's supporters here to defend their boy. Why, they're no different than Dumbocrats! It'd make much more sense to just admit that he's a mendacious idiot, and embrace those qualities as among the reasons you like him!
He said, "You look at what's happening last night in Sweden." That sounds like he was referring to a specific event, unquestionably. That leads to the clear implication (and reasonable assumption) that the specific event was a terrorist event of some kind. There was no event of any kind; he was referring to a story he saw on tv "last night."
Is this what you thought? Please Bob - be honest in your answer.
Either he is too inarticulate to speak clearly or oblivious/uncaring of the effect and meaning his words as President will have on others, or he says things purposely to inflame emotions without regard for their accuracy.
See, now here comes that New York lefty elitism. Yup, us stupid rubes have NO idea what he meant whatsoever. He was getting me into a tizzy. Glad I have your ilk to set me straight.
Whichever it is, this is a dangerous and inexcusable trait in someone in high office. It's typical of his decades working as a sleazy real estate operator, where the other guy's misunderstanding of what is said is the other guy's loss.
And in addition to being elitist, you're clairvoyant. You know what's in his heart? He's trying to fool us, and us rubes just aren't as clairvoyant as you?
You have to believe in a lot of assumptions about things that you're wrong about to even come to the conclusions you have.
Trump speaks in super dooper secret code that only Trumpists can understand. Trump isn't the pot who is calling the kettle black. Oh and Trump can see the future. Never mind the things that sound like in your face lies, it's just a verbal tic.
A few hours after the Swedish prime minister ridiculed Trump's comments about Sweden, "immigrants" held a riot in a Stockholm suburb.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/trump-right-riots-break-rinkeby-sweden-hours-pm-ridicules-trump-video/
Trump seems to have all the luck.
Re: Althouse:
BUT: What if Trump's TV is some freaky Twilight-Zone thing and he can see the future?
He watches a lot of TV. I'm pretty sure he has a pretty good sense of how these things play out -- Muslim immigrants (or the children of immigrants) rioting and committing crimes is not exactly a Black Swan event in European countries, even if good manners requires that we pop our monocles in shock every time it happens.
Shot:
Blogger Big Mike said...
Good Analysis by Adams. I hope the Dem's don't watch it.
@WisRich, if they do watch it they won't get it, because there's too much math and math is hard.
(Yes, I know. There is no math.)
Chaser
blogger Robert Cook said
His reference to a story on Tucker Carlson as the basis for his inflammatory remarks is idiotic and self-canceling.
His reference to a story on Tucker Carlson as the basis for his inflammatory remarks is idiotic and self-canceling.
Well, you know he meant the regular mainstream media, as in ABC/CBS/NBC, etc. Because in other remarks he's said that Fox has been fair with him.
You're either secluded and never heard him say that, or this tact is beneath you because you already knew he's said that.
Trump is showing rather ordinary extraversion--thinking with words he is saying rather than saying words that he is thinking. As an extravert I find him rather intelligible.
It's between "untruth" and projection. Perhaps "untruth" and deception. The contrarians are tightly wound balls of yarn that are unraveling.
"Well, you know he meant the regular mainstream media, as in ABC/CBS/NBC, etc. Because in other remarks he's said that Fox has been fair with him."
So that's his basis for making a distinction between the media that lies and the media that is truthful? How "fair" they are to him? That's rather self-serving, don't you think?
Trump speaks in super dooper secret code that only Trumpists can understand.
Yup. English.
Trump isn't the pot who is calling the kettle black.
Nope. Never heard of him once calling for rapes to happen in Sweden.
Oh and Trump can see the future. Never mind the things that sound like in your face lies, it's just a verbal tic.
No lies. Just hard truths that a certain philosophy is afraid to face.
So that's his basis for making a distinction between the media that lies and the media that is truthful? How "fair" they are to him? That's rather self-serving, don't you think?
Uh, yes. What other standards should be used?
And yes, it's self-serving, but at least it has the distinction of being true. Now if you have evidence to the contrary, I'm all eyes.
A few hours after the Swedish prime minister ridiculed Trump's comments about Sweden, "immigrants" held a riot in a Stockholm suburb."
Senator D-bag McCain wants a Senate investigation in to the Swedish riots to find out if they might have been Putin's ex-KGB agents disguised as Muslims to help Trump. ;-)
Sweden does have a serious problem with immigrant crime. They tend to cover it up, even from their own people. In Sweden, as in the US, a child born to am immigrant becomes a citizen or a "Swede" so when Moktar al-badasser rapes Ingrid Birgitson it is counted as Swede on Swede crime. Probably as it should be but it does confuse the news.
Malmo is particularly bad.
So it is probably safe to say that in Malmo or elsewhere in Sweden there were some criminal incidents Friday night. There are every other night, why would Friday be different?
Doesn't matter whether it is "terrorism" or not, it is a problem caused by excessive immigration.
So even if President Trump did not know the specific incident, he may be thinking "They have a lot of problems, probably had some Friday night"
I found Adam's point spot on, though I disagree about the untruth part. I found the video very difficult to watch. Poorly done and poorly lit. I'd rather have read it.
John Henry
You have to be a complete moron--or a fucking lefty liar--to make a big deal out of Trump's remarks on Saturday. I think the real thing you are trying to hide is the fact that 30,000 cheering Americans showed up to greet Trump warmly--15,000 got in and 15,000 remained outside. "Squirrel!!!!11!!!!," said the Lefty liar.
"Trump speaks in super dooper secret code that only Trumpists can understand. Trump isn't the pot who is calling the kettle black. Oh and Trump can see the future. Never mind the things that sound like in your face lies, it's just "
Actually, here, it is probably a little easier. A lot of Trump's audience/fans watch Fox News, and, now Tucker Carlson. So, when he talks about Sweden there, they, or someone they read, knows what he meant. The left (including much of the MSM) get their news instead, directly or indirectly, from they NYT. It wasn't in the NYT, so it didn't happen. But it did, just wasn't reported there. None of them are willing to watch or read the same news sources that Trump does. The left and the MSM try to dismiss it as "fake news", but of course it isn't (Sweden really does have a bad Muslim immigrant problem, as does much of Western Europe) - it just doesn't fit the NYT/leftist narrative, so is studiously ignored. The first step for them to understand Trump code is to watch Carlson, listen to Rush, etc. or run anything that they don't understand by someone who does, before announcing that Trump, again, is lying.
When Obama said that 10,000 died in Kansas, he was trying to connect those deaths with Republicans' inaction regarding AGW. He doubled down on his stupidity by telling us how he had spoken to the Governor and had the inside scoop. Contrast that with Trump just assuming we had seen the same report on Sweden that he had. If the Left continues down the same path, I may have to invest in ball pein hammer futures.
Blogger Andrew said...
A few hours after the Swedish prime minister ridiculed Trump's comments about Sweden, "immigrants" held a riot in a Stockholm suburb."
....................................
Yes, I noticed that. In the Rinkeby section of Stockholm.
Since it happened after Trump's supposed gaffe, I wonder if he is the new Oracle of Delphi.
The original Oracle would babble nonsensically and the words would have to be interpreted by
the attending priests (the media?)
FWIW: Malmo Sweden, where the troubles mainly seem to be, is 20% Muslim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_the_European_Union_by_Muslim_population
Stockholm is also 20%. All other cities are lower except Marseille whose Muslim population goes back centuries and Roubaix France which I've never heard of. Both 20%.
I wonder how many of those have come in the past 20 years? I wonder how many are trying to acculturate to becoming Swedish? I wonder how many of them are trying to convert Sweden into the same kind of shithole they fled?
Overall Muslim population of Sweden is about 3.5%
It's hard to imagine a crowd of pretty women in stars-n-stripes headscarves with cute kids throwing a riot, even in Sweden. Their immigrants must be different somehow than Chelsea Clinton's.
In another thread a few weeks ago someone mentioned Allan Drury's 1960 novel "Advise and Consent". I started reading it last week am about 70% through it. It is very good, and a real page turner except when Drury starts trying to get into people's heads. There he gets pretty long winded and I skim. I am looking forward to the next novels in the series.
One of the interesting things about the book is that Drury, who had plenty of first hand knowledge, has various reporters plotting to get Leffingwell, the SoS candidate confirmed.
They talk about needing to promote stories that help the progressive (Leffingwell) cause and not run stories that might hurt it. Kind of like what they did with Crooked Hilary.
In other words, this bullshit has been going on since the 40s and 50s.
John Henry
When Democrats have to put together a crowd of 30,000, they have to hold the event during working hours and bring out all the city, State, and county workers on the taxpayers' dime. But 30,000 cheering people on a Saturday? No wonder they are scared.
Know what I don't get?
The criticism of Trump and Abe working out a response to N. Korea together at his club.
Because I remember some being quite upset that Bush "did nothing" during 9/11 except sit in a classroom full of kids.
Cannot win for losing.
So now we have to distinguish between "lying" and "bullshitting".
How the hell did we end up with a President who spews BS all the time?
(Oops, shame on ME for saying "all the time".)
I wish Oriana Fallaci's books were on Kindle. She wrote a couple of great ones on the Eurabification of Europe. Rage and the Passion was one, I forget the title of the other.
I have both in paper and have been tempted to pull them down. I've been spoiled by Kindle and can't read paper anymore.
John Henry
Darrell: I think the real thing you are trying to hide is the fact that 30,000 cheering Americans showed up to greet Trump warmly--...
Nah, I think they can deal with that handily (rubes/populist demagoguery/Hitler enthusiasts, yadda yadda). Rocket J. Squirrel's services are, however, in demand when anyone suggests an empirical inquiry into the consequences of large-scale Muslim immigration into the West, and adduces data from a certain on-going contemporary experiment.
Trump speaks in hyperbole. Most of us get it. Some of the more weak-brained among the left side of the political spectrum clearly don't. As Adams points out, it gets people talking about and thinking about things he wants them to think about and talk about. The contrast with a president who would say something quite reasonable in a carefully-crafted and well-delivered speech, then do the opposite with his famous pen and phone is actually quite refreshing.
Yes, "weak-brained" is fairly redundant when writing about the left side of the political spectrum.
I can't believe that some people are still fixated on misstatements as if they're indicative of... something. This is Kremlinology. This is Obama's 57 states-- "Ooh, he must be referring to Muslim countries... or he's actually that dumb, har har." Do we have to run down the list of Bush's malapropisms and mangled grammar?
But oh no, when Trump does it we can't just chuckle and move on, we must figure out what does it all mean?
If Hillary were president would everything she said require translation?
Unknown and Cookie dare not address the clear, repeated and escalating violence associated with their beloved islamist supremacist immigrants in European nations stupid enough to buy into the global lefty elitist conceit that muslims pose no threat.
To do so would force a conversation about muslim immigration into the US and that my friends is absolutely verboten.
George Soros said the point of bring Muslims in is to create chaos in the Capitalist West, destroying individual countries and causing a clamor for a single world government. Since the media's new meme is CHAOS, it must be working.
If Hillary were president would everything she said require translation?
Not until the check cleared.
"I'm not saying he actually has that delusion, but he naturally falls into figurative speech and would say — un-self-consciously — I'm seeing X when he's only watching X on TV. And I am worried that he's not keeping reality securely separate from what is seen on TV."
Yes. He seems to conflate (at least verbally) the various pieces that we mostly keep separate. Event versus Report of Event versus Comment on Report of Event, etc etc. This may be his excitable, sloppy style. It may be something more.
Maybe if we all lived in TV land and consumed our reality products from that channel, like daytime soap addicts, we would "get" him more easily. But in fact we (many of us) are having to adapt.
That is interesting, and sometimes alarming. Not sure how much more popcorn I can stand, as I watch this process unfold.
Ann Althouse said... But it does show a problem with Trump that's worse than his somewhat word-salad-y approach to speaking. It shows how TV-oriented he is.
At the risk of whataboutism...wasn't "I heard about it on the news at the same time as everyone else" President Obama's go-to excuse? Pretty sure I remember hearing that a lot, and I'm pretty sure the Media and nice people of American accepted that as just fine. Me, I saw it as either shocking admission of managerial/executive incompetence or a gigantic lie. No follow up questions pestered the then-President on those occassions, though.
Here, some links:
7 Times President Obama Said He Found Out About World Events By Watching the News
8 Times Obama Says He Was Way Out of the Loop
Let's analyze the sentence carefully...
""You look at what's happening last night in Sweden."
Did president refer to an incident in Sweden last night? Actually, no, he did not. If he was referring to an event in Sweden, he would have have used past tense, but he did not.
Here's how Trump would have said if he was talking about the incident in Sweden last night:
""You look at what happened last night in Sweden."
In reality, Trump simply rearranged the words slightly..... take a look at what he said with the words rearranged for easier understanding...
"You look last night at what's happening in Sweden."
Makes sense?
Nonapod: "lossily compress..." Yes! Well said. I think his brain is faster than his mouth. He may be living life like a jazz virtuoso, just throwing out half-developed riffs and then reappropriating, recapitulating, exploding and reforming them. If you could put about three editors between his expostulation and the official transcript, we would all be OK.
But his system seems to work, mostly. For him, anyway. As a national standard? No.
HoodlumDoodlum said...
At the risk of whataboutism...wasn't "I heard about it on the news at the same time as everyone else" President Obama's go-to excuse? Pretty sure I remember hearing that a lot, and I'm pretty sure the Media and nice people of American accepted that as just fine. Me, I saw it as either shocking admission of managerial/executive incompetence or a gigantic lie. No follow up questions pestered the then-President on those occassions, though.
2/21/17, 1:04 PM
I was told that is COMPLETELY different cause SHUT UP!
He mentions Sweden and not only does the press make a collective ass out of itself (again) but he gets us all talking about Sweden and the immigrant issues. Win!
The other big press onslaught today is about Trump's apparent insufficient level of outrage in his comments about the recent anti-jewish threats and vandalism. The press is all atwitter that Trump's comments didn't meet the media's view for the appropriate amount of passion or outrage, instead of the press being passionate and outraged about the actual anti-jewish sentiment and anti-jewish threats and vandalism, and reporting on THAT. And the press loses more credibility.
Here are my questions:
Has there been an uptick in anti-jewish threats/vandalism/etc? or is it roughly the same and only now being reported on? If its an uptick, the press should be reporting THAT rather than rating Trump's level of outrage. Why an uptick now, is the left and its protest/riot movement anti-jewish? Uh-oh that doesn't fit the narrative.
If its not an uptick, why is the press pushing a story as if its an uptick? Just to smear trump over his comments? Shouldn't the press instead be reporting that "its the same level" and its no big deal (can't say that!), or "its the same level and its bad" (but that implies its been bad over the last 8 years but they never reported it). Again, the press makes itself look bad.
And the bonus, the press is now talking a lot about anti-jewish sentiment (they'll try to tie it to Trump and/or his supporters, but they'll fail), when what they really want to be reporting is all the (fake) anti-Muslim threats/violence that fit the narrative.
This is kinda getting fun. Pass the popcorn.
"If Hillary were president would everything she said require translation?"
Depends on what is the meaning of the word "is" is...
It's not like she'd be a controlling legal authority anyway!
Again Rantburg is a good place for this kind of stuff.
Then one can decide for oneself.
A bit OT, but thank goodness that our biggest immigration problem involves Hispanics, and not, like Europe, Muslims from failed states. We live in a brand new community in AZ, and a day doesn't go by without one of them trying to sell us on their businesses that do work, somehow, on new houses - landscaping, painting, concrete, etc. Much better than what was happening in Muslim parts of Sweden, where their first reaction was to sell drugs. Sure, there is always a bit of mañana, but the Hispanics I see here work hard, often to build their own businesses, Etc. No wonder Blacks are panicking right now. , For the most part, good people.
Re: Unknown:
I can't believe that some people are still fixated on misstatements as if they're indicative of... something. This is Kremlinology. This is Obama's 57 states-- "Ooh, he must be referring to Muslim countries... or he's actually that dumb, har har."
My recollection of that incident is Obama was saying something like: "I've been to all fifty . . . . . . . seven states" -- he obviously thought through and realised it was 47, but didn't say "forty." But his fans literally could not accept that he had misspoken and insisted it was a sophisticated joke. And his opponents subsequently turned it into a shorthand (along with, I think, Pashtuns speaking Arabian in Afgahnistan and "Corpse"-man) for Obama being kind of slow. Which was not entirely fair.
If I were president Trump, I would have linked obamas and dnc anti-Israeli policies and antisemitism. Hey, the democrats don't believe that Jews have a right to live in Jerusalem. Also, note that an avid antisemite, former member of the Nation of Islam is becoming a leader of the democratic party. Talk about left-wing antisemitism in colleges, mention Islamic and pro-Palestinian groups. And finish by talking about reverend wright wing of the democrat party.
And one more thing, link obamas hatred of the democratically ejected prime minister of Israel and antisemitism. Note UN and Europe funding for antisemitic murderers.
Bruce Hayden: thanks for the data points. Makes sense to me: the Officially Aggrieved Minority (blacks) is seeing its lunch eaten by others who lack the historical claim to reparations but who are willing to exchange value for value. Shocking!
Bruce Hayden said... [hush][hide comment]
A bit OT, but thank goodness that our biggest immigration problem involves Hispanics, and not, like Europe, Muslims from failed states. We live in a brand new community in AZ, and a day doesn't go by without one of them trying to sell us on their businesses that do work, somehow, on new houses - landscaping, painting, concrete, etc.
Have an elderly friend inn Sun City West, Az. Extremely concerned prior to election: 'Who will do roofing and gardening and home repairs if the illegal Mexicans are deported"
Until I assured her, she had never considered the legal Mexicans would, and are, doing those jobs.
Listening to MSM, she assumed all Mexicans were illegals.
AlbertAnonymous said...
How come you wrongly spell "Jewish" as "jewish" about a dozen times, but got "Muslim" correct the one time you used it? Then again half the time you wrote "trump," but any spell checker would have caught "jewish" for you.
Same here, Bruce. A lot of small businesses--and some large ones--owned and run by Hispanics. They have done most of the projects I've had done on my new house. There are a lot of illegals here, too, and Hispanic gangs. But that was true in WA State, as well. The Mexican cartels are active in most US states. Map
Yancey Ward: Your reference to the 57 states was a good one because it addresses the problem from other direction- any fairly decent parsing of Obama's statement in its context made it clear that "states" was being used in a too broad fashion for the given audience, but it didn't mean Obama really believed Guam to be a state in the same sense as Hawaii is.
This is honestly the first time I've heard this offered as an explanation for the "57 states" thing. I had always figured he just said "fifty-" instead of "forty-". IIRC, he mentioned visiting 57 states, said he had one more to visit, then pointed out that he wasn't going to be able to visit Alaska and Hawaii. If we assume he meant 47, that would make things correct.
Where does this idea that he was talking about territories or something come from?
"A bit OT, but thank goodness that our biggest immigration problem involves Hispanics, and not, like Europe, Muslims from failed states.'
True. Europe wishes they had the US version of the illegal-alien problem. Europe has to deal with a huge number of unemployables. The US is lucky even in the people it doesn't want.
I don't understand why the simple point that not all peoples are equal and that some peoples are more compatible than others has not gotten through. If Merkel had imported 1 million Filipinos, or Sweden 250,000 Mexicans, there wouldn't be a fraction of the friction.
Trump is irate at the intelligence community. They dissed him with the scandalous golden shower dossier.
In lieu of morning briefings he is substituting Fox and Friends and Tucker Carlson.
He is more like Chauncey Gardiner every day.
At least he has Prof. Althouse expertly translating for him pro bono.
I report, you decide:
Quickly enough, based on the as yet unverified rumor that Barack Obama is a Muslim, someone came up with the fanciful idea that his mention of “fifty-seven states” was a reference to the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), which has 57 member states. (Actually, the OIC encompasses 60 countries altogether: 57 member states and 3 observer states.)
"In lieu of morning briefings he is substituting Fox and Friends and Tucker Carlson."
Considering the nature of the information supplied by these briefings - what I gather from various memoirs, etc. - he may not be missing much. This stuff is super filtered and processed and rarely gets specific about anything, nor is it set in context - in other words, its pap.
"If I were president Trump, I would have linked obamas and dnc anti-Israeli policies and antisemitism. Hey, the democrats don't believe that Jews have a right to live in Jerusalem. Also, note that an avid antisemite, former member of the Nation of Islam is becoming a leader of the democratic party. Talk about left-wing antisemitism in colleges, mention Islamic and pro-Palestinian groups. And finish by talking about reverend wright wing of the democrat party."
This. The more actual anti-Semitism gets promoted or excused or ignored by the DNC, the more their media allies shriek, "Trump hates Jews!"
A bit OT, but thank goodness that our biggest immigration problem involves Hispanics
Hell, yes! I'll take Hispanic immigrants over Muslims any day!
You can't be pro-Muslim without being anti-Jewish. It's really that simple.
Trump isn't Pro-Choice in faith or religion.
spate of violence in Sweden
Anti-nativism, [class] diversity, and voting "present" are first-order causes of unassimilated and unintegrated refugees of catastrophic anthropogenic social justice.
[As Arabs are, in fact, 'semitic' I can't really say antisemitic in this context]
"The more actual anti-Semitism gets promoted or excused or ignored by the DNC"
Anti-Semitism is not hard to find. The UC and Cal State systems are full of it. The epicenter for a time was SF State, when it had a lot of Arabs and Muslims, but its calmed down there a bit, I think about when they ran out of Jews (Russian refugees mainly).
"Quickly enough, based on the as yet unverified rumor that Barack Obama is a Muslim, someone came up with the fanciful idea that his mention of “fifty-seven states” was a reference to the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), which has 57 member states. (Actually, the OIC encompasses 60 countries altogether: 57 member states and 3 observer states.) "
Wikipedia:
Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC; Arabic: منظمة التعاون الإسلامي; French: Organisation de la Coopération Islamique), is an international organization founded in 1969 consisting of 57 member states, with a collective population of over 1.6 billion as of 2008. The organisation states that it is "the collective voice of the Muslim world" and works to "safeguard and protect the interests of the Muslim world in the spirit of promoting international peace and harmony".[3]
In reality, I don't think Obama was talking about the OIC, it's just he is not that bright, after all, it was Obama the Stupid who promised that Obamacare would cut premiums by 3000% and it was Obama the Stupid who confessed he could barely do 7th grade math. And does not mention his morbid fascination with corpses.
"[As Arabs are, in fact, 'semitic' I can't really say antisemitic in this context]"
The word "antisemitic" has a well-defined meaning, and it has nothing to do with the arabs. It's about the Jews.
This is Obama's 57 statesI assumed the states meant the 50 US states, the 57 meant the Islamic nations. He misspoke quickly from memory and had recently heard the 57 number and it had stuck in his head. As POTUS and as a person he is allowed to make that mistake IMO. Not an Obama fan, but that mistake was just a nudge nudge chuckle to me. Nothing important about it. Now if Obama starts attending a mosque on a regular basis I'll re visit my sense of humor.
jdniner said...
Now if Obama starts attending a mosque on a regular basis I'll re visit my sense of humor.
2/21/17, 2:16 PM
Mosque / Rev, Write, tomato / tomahto...
"Wright" that is...
And for those with more literal than common sense. I know Rev. Wright's church is NOT a mosque but both houses of worship seem to spend a LOT of time hating on America so they do have THAT in common...
@Balfegir, saying that they speak "Austrian" in Austria is not exactly indicative of a well-educated individual, either. Oh! He went to Columbia and Harvard , didn't he? Explains a lot.
I played a variation of the dancing bear video as an attention getter when I used to give group presentations to public school teachers. It's amazing how most people didn't see the bear. The ones who did see it usually seemed to be the ADHD types.
It is interesting to me, at least. The Hispanics hustling for their small businesses seem to be second generation, or at least came here young, with good English. A lot of the workers though on all the new houses being built here appear to be first generation, with English problems. Interesting hearing people switching back and forth between English and Spanish - esp it seems when you see the families at, esp, Walmart, with the younger generations being fluent in the former, but switching to the latter with the older generations. Of course, nothing different than we have seen with other non-English speaking immigrant populations over the years - and, for the most part, in a generation or so, most will be speaking English as a first language. Hopefully.
Bruce Hayden said...
It is interesting to me, at least. The Hispanics hustling for their small businesses seem to be second generation, or at least came here young, with good English. A lot of the workers though on all the new houses being built here appear to be first generation, with English problems. Interesting hearing people switching back and forth between English and Spanish - esp it seems when you see the families at, esp, Walmart, with the younger generations being fluent in the former, but switching to the latter with the older generations. Of course, nothing different than we have seen with other non-English speaking immigrant populations over the years - and, for the most part, in a generation or so, most will be speaking English as a first language. Hopefully.
2/21/17, 2:31 PM
I do wish that when I was younger, the elementary school(s) would have done bilingual education. It would have been far easier for me (I have been told) to pick up another language (knowing now, then it would have been Spanish) if I had learned it when I was young. My old, addled brain has too many programming languages and old Gilligan's Island episodes in it to force in another language at this point in my life. I just don't think I have the mental power for it any longer (if at all).
"Unknown... associated with their beloved islamist supremacist immigrants in European nations....."
Trump level fake news. Do we need Scott Adams to explain? How do you further your argument by premising it on a lie? Drago, you are dismissed in a similar manner that Trump gets dismissed daily when he talks out of his ass.
I didn't like the guy going in, but I am enjoying Trump's First 100 Days. The Massive Moonbat Meltdown that began in November just keeps escalating, showing that Trump is making all the right people angry: the professional statist pseudo-liberals, the OWS canailled, the Hollywood Eloi, Darth Soros and his storm-troopers, etc., et al. I'm hoping they all join in some massive Jonestown type suicide pact.
Now it's possible that they're so far gone in cognitive dissonance, denial, whatever that they really can't "see the bear"
I had "The Five" on last night while I was cooking dinner. After listening to the discussion I started wondering if the liberal on the panel really believed the stuff he was saying or was it all just an act. Because he is playing the liberal on Fox News, if he acts reasonable he will lose his gig.
I think Warren is a true believer. Watching her on at one of the confirmation hearings I thought there is no way you could play act that much vitriol. She really believes she is fighting the forces of evil who seek to prevent benevolent rule and to do evil so as to enrich themselves.
William Chadwick said...
I didn't like the guy going in, but I am enjoying Trump's First 100 Days. The Massive Moonbat Meltdown that began in November just keeps escalating, showing that Trump is making all the right people angry: the professional statist pseudo-liberals, the OWS canailled, the Hollywood Eloi, Darth Soros and his storm-troopers, etc., et al. I'm hoping they all join in some massive Jonestown type suicide pact.
2/21/17, 2:42 PM
I have yet to read any news of Cher's huge investment in SpaceX. I assumed that would be her next strategic move to as to hasten her ability to go "off world".
I just saw CNN is showing riots in Sweden today. No, no problems there at all with their wonderful diversity, whatever could Trump have been talking about?
I do find the antisemitism of the left/Dems interesting. They need Jewish money and Jewish votes, but the Muslim population is roughly as large, and is growing much faster, both through immigration, and with a higher birth rate. So, they probably think that, long run, they need Muslims more. What to do? Obviously - keep the Jews in the tent, on the reservation, by (falsely) claiming that the Republicans/right are antisemitic. And making things easier - Jews tend to read the NYT over watching Tucker Carlson.
I don't think that Obama was, per se, antisemitic, but rather, grew up more around Muslims, than Jews (and in Hawaii, instead of, say, Chicago or NYC). So, he doesn't see his biases, nor understand our historical ties to Israel. And, as a result, inevitably took the Muslim side of the debate, esp when dealing with Israel and the Middle East. Trump, of course, is just the opposite, growing up, and doing business, in one of the biggest concentrations of Jews and Jewish businesses in the country (or, really the world). So, probably didn't think twice about his ethnic heritage, when another NYC real estate developer, Jered Kushner, asked for the hand of Trump's oldest daughter in marriage. Even when it meant that she would converted Judaism, and his grandkids raised as Jews.
buwaya: I don't understand why the simple point that not all peoples are equal and that some peoples are more compatible than others has not gotten through.
Oh, I'm sure you do understand, but I appreciate the drollery.
" and, for the most part, in a generation or so, most will be speaking English as a first language. Hopefully."
They are. The standard of spoken Spanish in the US is very low. Its also apparently not worthwhile to dub theatrical films in Spanish even in the Los Angeles market, with majority-Hispanic populations. They understand English well enough to not need to look for Spanish-language distribution.
Integration is happening, but not necessarily in the direction desired. There simply isn't the prevailing white/Euro culture present in Los Angeles, say, to integrate TO. The result is that the prevailing American cultural model there is American urban black. Besides that, after a couple of generations the model is American Urban Chicano.
It seems like CNN has lost the first round of a defamation case in federal court:
"Davide Carbone, former CEO of St. Mary’s Medical Center in West Palm Beach, filed a defamation lawsuit against CNN after they aired what he claims were a “series of false and defamatory news reports” regarding the infant mortality rate at the hospital. CNN’s report said the mortality rate was three times the national average. However, Mr. Carbone contends that CNN “intentionally” manipulated statistics to bolster their report. He also claims that CNN purposely ignored information that would look favorable to the hospital in order to sensationalize the story.
“The Court finds these allegations sufficient to establish that CNN was acting recklessly with regard to the accuracy of its report, i.e., with ‘actual malice,” the order reads."
But CNN is the Most Trusted Name in News! All the liberals tell me so! No Very Fake News there!
In other words, newcomers from Mexico (or more likely Central Americans these days), down in the LA basin (and elsewhere), are integrating into a home-grown English-speaking Chicano culture which is distinct from both Mexico and "white" America.
The ideological irredentism of much of the Chicano leftist-activist subculture has a problem with this.
Like all these situations its much more complicated looking at it close up than one would assume at a distance.
Watching something on TV isn't so much like viewing something through a filter as of having your head clamped in a vise so the camera operator can turn your head this way and that and then force you to focus on what you're supposed to focus on.
Perhaps TV can produce the illusion that "seeing is believing," but it's not so.
Hmmm only the headline available now, but Rantburg does archive an article from January about how Sweden is handling crime stats.
In Yuma, AZ, Mexican Spanish is heard everywhere. In Walmart, the loudspeaker announcements are usually in Spanish. Most of the staff speak Spanish to each other. It's almost impossible to get certain jobs working with the public unless you are 'bilingual', which means Spanish-speaking with passable English.
Since I worked here seasonally for several years [2000-2005], I found it useful to know enough Spanish to get by. I took two full courses of it in college. But it's gotten pretty rusty in the past few years and I'm trying to re-learn it.
I like what Teddy Roosevelt had to say about immigrants. Among other things, "We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language." It needs to be emphasized, IMO. And English should be required for immigrants and citizens.
Here's a dancing bear for you: The current situation is indeed like 1933... but in the US, not Germany.
"… it is just wonderful to be back in Oregon, and over the last 15 months we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in fifty …. seven states? I think one left to go. One left to go. Alaska and Hawaii, I was not allowed to go to even though I really wanted to visit
but my staff would not justify it.”
Now that I see the quote, Darrell, I wonder if that was him saying "fifty" then self-correcting to "forty-seven" but the "forty" wasn't picked up by the mic or he simply swallowed the word. Happens when speaking, especially when tired.
>>I'm seeing X when he's only watching X on TV. And I am worried that he's not keeping reality securely separate from what is seen on TV.
So, when guys ask each other "Did you see the game last night?", the answer should be "No, I didn't see it. I just watched it on TV"?
Paul Moore:
It must be nice to always believe you know better, to always think you're the smartest person in the room.
Jane Craig:
No. It's awful.
I'm EVP at a company that owns companies and factories in Vastervik and Malmo. I travel there often. The idea that Malmo is a "no-go zone" or some cesspool of violence are completely absurd. My Swedish colleagues are dumbfounded by the entire thing.
Unknown: "Drago, you are dismissed in a similar manner that Trump gets dismissed daily when he talks out of his ass"
Are you still here unknown?
Shouldn't you be organizing a food drive to salvage what little is left of the latest lefty paradise social experiment in Venezuela?
It seems like only yesterday the lefties were loving them some of that sweet, sweet Chavez bashing of Bush and lecturing all of us about the paradise to come in Venezuela due to those fantastic lefty policies!!
Lately, not so much.
And to think the weight reduction programs of this latest, inevitable, leftist failure has had such astonishingly successful results!
Not to mention the deaths that will no doubt reduce greenhouse gases!!
That's a win-win-win for the lefties.
Congrats lefties and Carry On!
And to think the weight reduction programs of this latest, inevitable, leftist failure has had such astonishingly successful results!
Drago! Great idea! Since the average Venezuelan has lost 19 pounds [or so I read this morning}, they should advertise themselves as the 'weight-loss-capital of the world' and attract, say, Lena Dunham and other overweight celebs to participate in their program.
"I'm EVP at a company that owns companies and factories in Vastervik and Malmo."
It would be interesting to hear a firsthand account of the social situation of Muslim immigrants in Sweden, and the general Swedish reaction to them.
Eva: I'm EVP at a company that owns companies and factories in Vastervik and Malmo. I travel there often. The idea that Malmo is a "no-go zone" or some cesspool of violence are completely absurd.
I visit Chicago often and have never seen any violence at all, or for that matter, stayed in a less than perfectly safe neighborhood. The idea that any part of Chicago is a cesspool of violence is therefore completely absurd.
My Swedish colleagues are dumbfounded by the entire thing.
I do not claim any knowledge of Sweden, but one does run across two kinds of Swedes: those who are dumbfounded, and those who are dumbfounded by those who are dumbfounded.
So that's his basis for making a distinction between the media that lies and the media that is truthful? How "fair" they are to him?
It's not just the fairness. He also values the balance.
Blogger Eva said...
I'm EVP at a company that owns companies and factories in Vastervik and Malmo. I travel there often. The idea that Malmo is a "no-go zone" or some cesspool of violence are completely absurd. My Swedish colleagues are dumbfounded by the entire thing.
2/21/17, 3:42 PM
--------------------------------
Thanks for the info.
@angel_dyne Don't mean to be argumentative, but Malmo is tiny. It's essentially a vacation hamlet for larger cities. Not saying I have comprehensive knowledge of every single thing that happens there, but I'll think believe my own lying eyes and the conversations I've had with actual citizens of Malmo. My colleagues are educated professionals that would probably be aware if their town was being taken over by criminal immigrants.
Eva: Malmo is a "vacation hamlet"? Malmo is the third largest city in Sweden, with over 300,000 population, and it's one of the oldest industrial centers. The Swedish "rust belt."
Eva: "... but I'll think believe my own lying eyes and the conversations I've had with actual citizens of Malmo."
Pay no attention to those pictures of burning cars or police being attacked.
Those are actually just large, rustic, paper weights and every leftist knows you can't trust what the cops say.
johns: "Eva: Malmo is a "vacation hamlet"? Malmo is the third largest city in Sweden, with over 300,000 population, and it's one of the oldest industrial centers. The Swedish "rust belt."
Just think, another hundred thousand people or so and Eva might upgrade her description of Malmo to a "burg".
Eva: "My colleagues are educated professionals that would probably be aware if their town was being taken over by criminal immigrants."
Oh, well. Case settled then. Our educated professionals are never wrong and/or would never mischaracterize anything.
That's why the US stock market will never recover from it's election night lows. I know that because one our educated professionals told me so.
I'm looking at Eva's picture, and this has to be a put-on.
Oops, I read Eva's profile. You got me there, Eva. The parody was just a little too real for me. You must have had a lot of experience with these insufferable liberals.
Eva,
https://pjmedia.com/homeland-security/2017/02/21/trump-is-completely-right-about-the-crisis-in-sweden/
So the linked article is completely false then?
Darrell said...I read that some TV station in Sweden sent out a reporter and camera crew to the area that is described as a no-go area in Malmo in order to make a monkey out of Trump and the reporter was attacked as soon as he stepped out of the truck. They barely got away with substantial damage to the truck. I'll bet that the footage didn't air, if they were filming.
Last March, an Australian 60 Minutes crew doing a piece on the European refugee crisis was attacked by masked migrants in Stockholm. (YouTube video link).
Sydney Herald article.
Sjunnesson wrote that six police officers were assigned to protect the Nine crew, but that when they left without warning things took a turn for the worse. A group of masked men allegedly circled the TV crew, with two crew members suffering blows. A bottle was also thrown at a camera, according to the report. One cameraman "was beaten right across the chin so that a tooth [came] loose," Sjunnesson wrote.
Sjunnesson said that the 60 Minutes team compared Rinkeby to a war zone: "They told me that they were in Somalia, Syria and Iraq, but nothing like that has just happened to them, they had never experienced [this] anywhere else."
...but yeah, Trump talking about trouble in Sweden?! That guy's nutz.
Eva,
Malmo is tiny? Now it's obvious you're talking through your Democratic Party roots.
From Wikipedia:
Malmö is the third largest city in Sweden, after Stockholm and Gothenburg, and the 6th biggest city in Scandinavia, with a population of above 300,000.[5] The Malmö Metropolitan Region is home to 700,000 people
Looks like "Eva/Unknown" did not do the requisite research necessary to pull off an acceptable troll effort.
Tsk tsk.
Eva: My colleagues are educated professionals that would probably be aware if their town was being taken over by criminal immigrants.
Unless your colleagues are an exception to the general rule regarding the personal experience of "educated professionals" with the less attractive neighborhoods of their city, your confidence in their "awareness" of what life is like in those areas is perhaps a bit misplaced.
You know, I've been reading this blog for over 13 years. When I first started it was a delightful salon with a witty and educated commenters of all political persuasions that challenged my thinking and educated me in different viewpoints. Every one of them is gone. So today is my last day. This comment section has become unpleasantly partisan with each commenter trying to prove they have the biggest balls and can deliver the most withering personal insults. So, you guys caught me. I broke my 13 years of lurking to lie about the oh so crucial issue of my experiences with Malmo. All the best....
Eva: "So today is my last day"
Perhaps you could retire to that sleepy little hamlet of 300,000 known as Malmo.
I'm sure they have a small dinner theatre.
Well, Eva, c'est la guerre. So many niceties are lost in wartime.
Eva: So, you guys caught me. I broke my 13 years of lurking to lie about the oh so crucial issue of my experiences with Malmo. All the best....
Pity. I was kinda looking forward to an explanation of how a metropolitan area of 700,000 thousand can be perceived to be "tiny", and a "vacation hamlet".
It's not that far-fetched. I have acquaintances from Shanghai (educated! professionals! I'll have you know) to whom prosperous American cities of 600-700 thousand people feel like Mayberry RFD. If one were used to working in any number of global mega-cities, I can see how Malmo (probably more dense and compact than an American city of comparable size) could seem small...
Nah. I don't think that explains it in this case.
Buwaya said..."It would be interesting to hear a firsthand account of the social situation of Muslim immigrants in Sweden, and the general Swedish reaction to them."
Just like the cops that quickly changed their tune, most other Swedes would buckle to the thought of being prosecuted under their perverted hate speech laws like Mark Steyn.
The gaslighting has become insane.
Look at this article:
http://www.thelocal.se/20170127/malmo-police-chief-help-us
After a wave of violence in Sweden's third city, police boss Stefan Sintéus has appealed to residents in Malmö: "Help us. Help us to tackle the problems. Cooperate with us."
In an opinion piece published by regional newspaper Sydsvenskan, he describes an "upward spiral of violence of great proportions" in the city, where police are currently dealing with 11 ongoing murder investigations and around 80 attempted murders.
Now do a search for "local Malmo" and you'll see all the hits from local.se regarding Malmo. But hey, Sweden has absolutely no idea what Trump is talking about, nope.
More seeing the future, like California's drought...
http://www.factcheck.org/2016/06/trumps-dubious-drought-claims/
Quote: "Trump criticizes the media as fake and distorting, but then he seems to be the guy staring at the screen to see what's going on in the world."
You are so...... right. Trump has described his day beginning with an hour or so reading or watching the news. That's, of course, what his early baby boomer generation does. They are people who spent their childhood with a local daily newspaper and three channels on TV. Those were often their only source of news. And they either accept or reject what they see there, often viscerally.
But that'd not todays world. There are other and better sources of information, sources that bypass media censorship and tell what's really happening in 'no go' zones like those in Sweden.
Trump needs to abandon his news media addiction and seek out first-class sources. They he can leave his press enemies speechless with what he knows not merely what he surmises from their stories.
Most people, including polished politicians, occasionally misspeak things in a way that can be confusing, when they are speaking in an unscripted manner. When Democrats do such things, the liberal media simply ignores it and gives them a pass. When Republicans do such things, the media begins their typical outrage circus, in an effort to discredit them. When I heard Trump's statement about Sweden, I took it for what it was...a nothing-burger. I had read enough about the uptick of crime in Sweden since they began bringing Islamic refugees into their country and had no problem connecting the dots. I'm sure that most reporters in the liberal MSM were capable of doing the same thing. But, doing so would not have fit the preconceived narrative that they have been pushing since the election. What they are doing is a purposeful act that is intended to discredit President Trump. However, the fact that it is not working well for them is why I have more popcorn moments in my life.
With regard to Trump's (lack of) syntax in his spoken words: I have no difficulty understanding Trump at his most gnomic. I'm a Brit, and comparing him with John Prescott (Labour's former deputy leader), Trump is a beacon of clarity.
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