Common examples involve blocking local minimum-wage and sick-leave ordinances, which are opposed by business groups, and bans on plastic grocery bags, which arouse retailers’ ire. Some states have prohibited cities from enacting firearm regulations....ADDED: The question in the title has a very simple answer: The state wins.
“People are furious. They’re confused,” Esther Manheimer, Asheville’s mayor, told me as her city battled to retain control of its water system. “We’re a very desirable city to live in. We’re on all the top-10 lists. How would anyone have an issue with the way Asheville is running its city, or the things that the people of Asheville value?”...
Some states delegate certain powers to cities, but states remain the higher authority, even if city dwellers don’t realize it. “Most people think, We have an election here, we elect a mayor and our city council, we organize our democracy—we should have a right to control our own city in our own way,” says Gerald Frug, a Harvard Law professor and an expert on local government. “You go to any place in America and ask, ‘Do you think this city can control its own destiny?’ ‘Of course it can!’ The popular conception of what cities do runs in direct conflict with the legal reality.”
ALSO: Though the law gives the state the upper hand, there should be a political argument that appeals to the conscience of conservatives in state government. If they believe in the values of federalism — that decentralization produces law that is well-tailored to local conditions and preferences — then they should respect the autonomy of cities. Some matters need to be governed by uniform state law, just as some things work better with uniform federal law, but when that uniformity is not a positive good, lean toward local democracy. I'm not saying this political argument will necessarily work, just that it has potential to singe their conscience.
Posts
255 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 255 of 255Upstate NY has been pauperized by NYC.
They would dump NYC if they could.
These places, to the extent they supply the urban markets, will continue to do so. On the other hand they will make their own laws to attract investment, which avoids them, in large part to massive regulatory overhead and mandates imposed by the city.
The federalist argument works only if it is a two-way street. But the liberals have zero compunction at foisting their vision on an entire country and demonizing all who disagree. Which means conservatives need to respond in kind. Either both sides respect their opponents or neither does.
NorthEast America would be a bit like Israel, a technologically advanced state surrounded by theocratic provinces in an intellectual desert.
Is the NE US not losing population as the western US gains? I suppose the riffraff are the ones jumping ship leaving the creme-de-la-creme--like you--behind. ;-D
The NE is an importer of energy resources, ARM.
Lewis Wetzel said...
The NE is an importer of energy resources, ARM.
So are Germany and Israel. Your point?
ARM, I think his point is that, without the energy to import, you are screwed. If the red states refused to export energy to New England, well...I guess they'd be up shit creek without the proverbial paddle.
We're really getin' in the weeds. So is this the constitutional convention?
If so I'd like to propose a Section:
Every seventh Friday will be a national holiday where the nation has a pizza party (NY type) and ice cream social (Commies from Vermont type).
What changed for the left that they think they will never be ascendent again? Succession seems like a reasonable alternative? This must be a gag. Was it the psychic shock of having the rust belt states tell you to fuck off in a crowded diner? Try again in 4 years like you always have. Sheesh. Get over it all ready.
GK1,
Althouse doesn't like the term "rust belt." It's derogatory bigotry. Or something like that.
Perhaps you could call it "land of amazing folks who no longer have economic viability, but still like red hats or guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment."
I think that's acceptable to the con PC police.
BTW, how cool is it that DJT's campaign was based on that BHO quote?
Fun stuff.
NorthEast America would be a bit like Israel, a technologically advanced state surrounded by theocratic provinces in an intellectual desert.
Am I supposed to be offended by that?....I think he was trying to offend me!
Naw! Dick be dick, that's what I always say.
A real carpet bomber.
Well, ARM, the energy business shows why borders are an economic inefficiency. There are geopolitical considerations that come into play as well. Putin can put Ukraine in the deep freeze at will.
But to change the subject a bit, overall your remarks illustrate with the UBI (Universal Basic Income) is a terrible idea. The people who believe that they are paying out the UBI, rather than benefiting from it, will never accept the UBI takers as free and equal citizens. They will consider them a client class.
NorthEast America, housing as it does the UN headquarters, would naturally become the leader of western nations and then of the world. This new one world government would foster a new enlightenment, with NYC becoming the world center for the creative arts and sciences. Partnership with Fagistan in the west results in a technological renaissance, leading to undreamed of wealth and ease. The biotech labs in Boston create a race of cloned soldiers, who can be frozen and kept in cold storage until needed in battle. The unfrozen soldiers self destruct at the end of any conflict, thus eliminating the health care costs, leading to dramatic increases in the efficiency of war making. As a consequence, NorthEast America becomes the dominant military power of its time.
NoNothingistan, in contrast, continues along a path of demographic suicide. Resistant to newcomers and in a permanent oxycontin fog that limits their ability to reproduce the region undergoes a precipitous demographic decline until descendants of the plains Indians stage a coup and take back control of their ancestral lands.
Make America Saudi Arabia: MASA
BTW, how shocked will the red hatters be when they realize that they're not in the role of masa in MASA. Sad!
We're gonna need really big walls.
mockturtle said...
If the red states refused to export energy to New England,
Buy it from Canada, our liberal democracy partner.
"in a permanent oxycontin fog"
They don't need your stinkyin' gov rules and regulations. Free market:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/may/25/opioid-epidemic-prescription-painkillers-heroin-addiction
Comment by AReasonableMan blocked.
2/14/17, 11:17 PM
Comment by 3rdGradePB_GoodPerson blocked.
2/14/17, 11:18 PM
Comment by AReasonableMan blocked.
2/14/17, 11:19 PM
Comment by 3rdGradePB_GoodPerson blocked.
2/14/17, 11:20 PM
2 pair! Pay me Honey!
"Upstate NY is not binding its economic future to NoNothingistan. They may be hicks but they are not suicidal."
Of course they are. Over the last 40 years or so they've already lost most of their industry and much of their population because they remained bound to NYC, which set tax, labor and enviro policies (among others) that were very satisfying to wealthy, urban know-nothing-about-actual-nature NYCers, but which were a slow death sentence to the economy of the rest of the state. So now they are reduced to begging for scraps from the Manhattan table. Cripes, Buffalo would be better off petitioning to join Toronto.
Buy it from Canada, our liberal democracy partner.
2/14/17, 11:19 PM
That pipeline's going through North Dakota, not upstate NY.
The people on the coasts who feel that they should dictate the environmental, economic, and social policies of the flyover states often consider themselves 'anti-colonialists."
It is a wonderment!
AReasonableMan said...
NorthEast America, housing as it does the UN headquarters, would naturally become the leader of western nations and then of the world. This new one world government would foster a new enlightenment, with NYC becoming the world center for the creative arts and sciences. Partnership with Fagistan in the west results in a technological renaissance, leading to undreamed of wealth and ease. The biotech labs in Boston create a race of cloned soldiers, who can be frozen and kept in cold storage until needed in battle. The unfrozen soldiers self destruct at the end of any conflict, thus eliminating the health care costs, leading to dramatic increases in the efficiency of war making. As a consequence, NorthEast America becomes the dominant military power of its time.
This is funny. ARM is trying, but you are not smart enough to be a futurist. Looks like you read a couple bad articles. Armies will be mechanical, not biological among other things. And anything that happens planet side will be unimportant when satellites start dropping tungsten/depleted uranium rods from space.
ARM is too stupid to realize what the North East would become should we become a borderless wonderland and the progressives take over. All of that action he blathers on about would be taking place in India and the wealthy elites would just keep enough of a buffer in NYC to keep their apartments safe and it would look be Mexico minus the warm weather in no time.
NoNothingistan, in contrast, continues along a path of demographic suicide. Resistant to newcomers and in a permanent oxycontin fog that limits their ability to reproduce the region undergoes a precipitous demographic decline until descendants of the plains Indians stage a coup and take back control of their ancestral lands.
This is more like it. Pure idiotic condescension. It is fun to watch a fucking idiot like ARM think he is superior to other people. I started a few domains for some apps. The email I used to log those domains is being flooded by coders from India and south east asia right now offering to build apps for $200. I know some people who are shopping their legal work to India for a tenth of the cost it is done here. There are doctors in several places around the world that are comparable. But what makes people come here?
ARM doesn't understand what makes people different. What makes cultures and societies different. He doesn't understand why the United States is unique in history. Progressives have never understood what he point of leaving other people alone is. They always think the smartest people should tell all of the other people what to do.
Everywhere else in the world there is a dominant cultural force that homogenizes society. They mistakenly believe that in the US nobody is in charge and they always seek to fill that void and tell everyone else what to do. They are always telling us Germany, or Europe, or Japan, or China is going to take over the world but it never happens and it never will and they can't figure out why the US always comes out on top despite their best efforts to take it down.
People like ARM will never figure out why a 1,000 of the smartest central planners running everything can't outperform 1,000,000 average free thinkers. TBH I doubt he makes it past the first paragraph.
ARM wasn't serious, Achilles.
At least I don't think that he was.
His ramblings were, I thought, a satire of the Turner Diaries. The good people get up and take action, remove the troublesome people, and everything is jake! Zeppelins start tying up to the Empire state building again, electricity too cheap to meter, a good corned beef sandwhich for $6.00 . . .
Lewis Wetzel said...
ARM wasn't serious, Achilles.
At least I don't think that he was.
I think you are overestimating him. PBJ too. They are absolutely serious, but they just can't see around the issue they can't understand.
This is all rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. America is doomed. We set a course for the iceberg in 1965, and it's been full steam ahead ever since.
One method of determining which regions or states are desirable places to live is to look at emigration/immigration, and the makeup of the immigration/emigration. I don't know what those numbers would show, but anecdotally Cali is losing middle class jobs, and gaining low-skilled and high-skilled foreign workers. The NE has a lot of hi tech, but outstate in NY and New England things are grim. If I was poor, but ambitious, I wouldn't go to New York or Boston. Probably Alaska would be my choice.
Capitol City is growing fast, I hear, but the proles in district 12 are becoming restive and Capitol City's time in the sun may be coming to an end.
Looking at some data:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: TUESDAY, DECEMBER 20, 2016
Utah is Nation’s Fastest-Growing State, Census Bureau Reports
http://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2016/cb16-214.html
Utah is west of the Mississippi if I am not mistaken.
More complete data. The New York vs North Carolina data is . . . interesting. Some of the numbers (check Wyoming) must be related to the oil bust.
http://www.governing.com/gov-data/census/state-migration-rates-annual-net-migration-by-state.html
Seattle ...... more homeless per square inch than any major city, save NYC.
@robother:
You're identifying one of the individual sorting dynamics that explain the Blue Mega/Big City vs Red Country phenomenon. College-educated younger populations with New Economy jobs embrace Open Borders/Free Trade policies as embodying rational and social values imbibed at university, as well as the need to virtue signal contempt for working class and small town social values.
The interesting dynamic there is between where we spend half the year, in rural MT, and where I grew up, west of Denver. Traditionally, that was part of the heart of suburban Republican suburbia. Think the Coors family and the Independence Institute, both nearby (turns out, we used the same funeral home as the Coors family did this last fall, when we both lost patriarchs). Except that this time around, despite no one liking Crooked Hillary, my (tepid) support for Trump was almost universally questioned, by those I would normally have considered strong Republicans. Contrast this with the town we live in, in rural MT. Most years, it probably votes more Democrat than that area in CO. But no one, and I mean no one, supported Clinton. Your word is your bond there, and while Trump is a braggart, she is a bald faced lier and crook. In an earlier age, she would have faced the fate of Brad Pitt in The River Runs Through. Of course, everyone I know there in that part of CO is college educated, while that is a rarity there in rural MT.
I would add significant immigrant--illegal and legal--inflow as rewarding the Dem obsession with identity politics in the case of NV and CO. I don't think you're disagreeing with the Trende diagnosis, as much as trying to explain it.
My gut feeling is that illegal immigration is much less the driving force in CO as it is in places south of there (AZ, NM. and esp CA). Just from personal data points. You just don't see the large increase in Hispanics there. Or, if they are there, it is much less noticeable. A lot of Hispanics areound our new house in PHX - many more than when I lived here before. It is new, which probably accentuates the issue. NM seems to be vecoming oppressively Hispanic. Always was, somewhat, which is why I am trying to talk a brother from moving there. Nothing wrong with Hispanics - a lot of our neighbors are. Hardworking people, little different from anyone else. We are in Vegas for Valentine's Day, and the percentage of non-English speaking Hispanics seems higher than before.
mockturtle said...
If the red states refused to export energy to New England,
Buy it from Canada, our liberal democracy partner.
Where you gonna run the power lines and pipelines? Not through red country! Where will you gas and oil docks? What are you going to pay with, Starbucks gift cards and scholarships in gender studies programs?
@Lewis - Dr K here awhile back was routinely comparing U-Haul prices between different locations. Actually pretty easy to do, with their online app. If my memory serves me right, the cost of a truck from S CA to TX was roughly double that going in the other direction. Pure reflection of supply and demand, in terms of moving patterns.
All those big city residents who drive trucks will deliver goods to those big cities.
both of them
It'd be nice if you could do basic mathematics such that you'd know you're moocher states, and then you'd say thanks.
Given that those studies lump military bases --- you know, one of those specifically listed functions of government --- in the "mooching" side of the ledger, the analysis is laughable.
I wonder if 9/11 happened today, how much of the country would REALLY be all that upset. I mean, they only attacked NYC and DC.
Maybe, but that just confirms what we all already knew. As a moderate, I would like to live in a more amicable and productive country.
Color me stunned that the Left REALLY dislikes intellectual diversity.
Except that's exactly what they were trying to do, especially with the Fugitive Slave Act, and when the North elected Lincoln on the promise and hope that he would put an end to this, the south threw a collective tantrum.
The Southern leadership felt the Feds were trying to deprive them of their property (imagine if Trump decided that IP protections would no longer be protected by the US government). Morality of their view aside, that was THEIR view and they felt the North was violating their rights. They felt Lincoln would completely do so and, thus, they wanted to leave.
The South had no desire to govern the North.
NorthEast America would be a liberal democracy, similar in size to Germany. It would be a significant nuclear power (Leo Szilard was on the Columbia faculty and had the patent), but have a relatively small standing army. It would have universal health insurance.
They'd have to reimburse the US for everything federal tax monies put in their states. The roads, etc. With their budgets already in terrible shape (pie-in-the-sky optimism of investment gains don't actually make the bottom line better), that'd blow holes in their budgets --- having to spend trillions of dollars in compensation. Good luck paying for the guns and all.
We could also them steal all of the "creative" work done there because, well, copyright protections would no longer be there. The Feds guaranteed it and we wouldn't see much benefit in protecting that further.
You'd also have foreign powers interested in attacking you still, but with FAR fewer resources dedicated to protecting you. If terrorists attack an "independent" NY, why, precisely, should the US care?
There'd be A LOT of people interested in just fucking up their stuff and a hostile power next door that wouldn't be inclined to prevent them from doing so.
Northeast America is more likely to be a disconnected series of enclaves with no industry, no natural resources, and no longer able to serve as providers of financial services to the remainder of the country or the world.
Because who would send money there?
Yup, because they'd have to provide some means of gaining US dollars and what they produce can be ripped off wholesale much more easily. IP law would be dead for the "secession" states and they would really, REALLY not like that.
Imagine the irony when the brain power nation is forced to build a wall to keep out the low/no regulation/taxation(for job creators) folks who they milk for cheap sources.
We've allowed the "Best and brightest" to govern for a long time now. The results have been less than stellar.
@ Bruce Hayden
That is true for people who rent moving vans, i.e. middle class movers.
Poor people who move by bus, in their car or hitching a ride are not included in that metric.
FWIW
NorthEast America, housing as it does the UN headquarters, would naturally become the leader of western nations and then of the world
They'd have no representation. The US, the one they left, has a permanent seat if we wish and we can veto anything we want.
NorthEast America, housing as it does the UN headquarters, would naturally become the leader of western nations and then of the world. This new one world government would foster a new enlightenment, with NYC becoming the world center for the creative arts and sciences. Partnership with Fagistan in the west results in a technological renaissance, leading to undreamed of wealth and ease. The biotech labs in Boston create a race of cloned soldiers, who can be frozen and kept in cold storage until needed in battle. The unfrozen soldiers self destruct at the end of any conflict, thus eliminating the health care costs, leading to dramatic increases in the efficiency of war making. As a consequence, NorthEast America becomes the dominant military power of its time.
Growth is from importing people who aren't fully supportive of the policies of the elite. I bet there is no chance that might end up going poorly.
Where you gonna run the power lines and pipelines? Not through red country! Where will you gas and oil docks? What are you going to pay with, Starbucks gift cards and scholarships in gender studies programs?
2/15/17, 6:47 AM
ARM and PB wave off these irritating practical questions. The sooper smart people will figure it out, somehow.
Blogger Larry J said...
Strictly speaking, the American Civil War from 1861-65 wasn't really a civil war. In a civil war, one or more factions are trying to take over the nation from the ruling faction. That was never the goal of the South. Had the Confederacy won that war, they would've been an independent nation and the United States would've still existed, only smaller. Instead of a civil war, it was a failed war of independence.
thank you Larry for pointing that out. You are absolutely correct. It was NOT a "civil war" by any reasonable definition of the phrase.
No more than a war between Britain and the rest of Europe would be a "civil war" if the EU tried to block Brexit by force.
We are the United States not the United Provinces, shires or other entities. A "state" is a sovereign entity. The 13 original states were each independent countries or states from after the revolution until the Constitution. They remained sovereign states after the Constitution, though they had delegated some, but not all, of their powers.
What many call the Civil War is more properly called The War Between the States.
John Henry
Todd said...
"mockturtle said...
Related, I tell my liberal friends that want to move to warmer climates that they need to go to Cal. Avoid Texas, Florida, etc. as they are just TOO hickie.
Tell them to avoid Arizona, too!
2/14/17, 12:21 PM
Arizona? Don't worry, most liberals believe that place is made up like Portlandia."
And , if I'm not mistaken, Arizona has the highest per capita number of gunsmiths.
Which areas, red or blue, have the highest number of people who know how to do things? That will be the area that survives and thrives.
Blogger 3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...
BTW, how cool is it that DJT's campaign was based on that BHO quote?
Pretty cool, IMHO.
Ex-President Obama said it but never meant it and never did anything about it.
President Trump means it and is implementing it.
Way cool.
John Henry
Blogger AReasonableMan said...
mockturtle said...
If the red states refused to export energy to New England,
Buy it from Canada, our liberal democracy partner.
How?
Canada's oil is in the west. They have the same problems building a pipeline to ship it east as we do. Except they have no President Trump to break the logjam.
For Canada to ship oil to the US NE, it will have to go through the US midwest.
They do have Quebec Hydro but that is already selling a lot of power to NE and doesn't have much excess capacity to see more. I suspect they would sell to Canada first.
John Henry
John Henry said:
"We are the United States not the United Provinces, shires or other entities. A "state" is a sovereign entity."
I once got into an interesting discussion with a Lefty about DC statehood. I explained that states weren't created by the federal government, they were recognized and admitted to the union. When I told him that the federal government was the creation of the states, and not the other way around, and that the states could dissolve the federal government, but the federal government could not unmake a state, he told me that people who thought like I did should be shot for treason.
AReasonableMan said...
Maybe the absurdity of his presidency has made the unthinkable thinkable and even possible.
2/14/17, 6:42 PM
Why is it the "left" always thinks anyone not left is "absurd"? What actually, factually has Trump done as President that is so "absurd" as compared to all other Presidents?
- Obama had his phone and pen
- Kennedy and Clinton had their women
- Nixon had his Watergate
- Presidents of old had their slaves
- FDR had his massive social programs and internment camps
What pray tell has Trump done as President all these not even 4 weeks that is so "absurd"?
"What pray tell has Trump done as President all these not even 4 weeks that is so "absurd"?"
-- He fired someone for lying; what I saw from the last administration is that that wasn't a big deal.
Todd Galle said...
I have dies and components for every caliber rifle and pistol I have (except of course the .22).
2/14/17, 8:37 PM
FYI you can get a .22 reload kit (google it). It comes with everything to allow you to reload and reuse .22s. The fellow the created it also has a tool that lets you create primers out of soda cans.
Trump has also done some, actually, absurd things. He's been moving quickly, sometimes tripping over himself to get things done. He's not perfect, but he's definitely not New Hitler either.
Matthew Sablan said...
Trump has also done some, actually, absurd things. He's been moving quickly, sometimes tripping over himself to get things done. He's not perfect, but he's definitely not New Hitler either.
2/15/17, 8:02 AM
Please list and I mean that! And I don't mean just being a little stupid or a misstep. I am ABSURD! Like giving millions and millions of dollars to a terrorist nation trying to build nuclear bombs absurd.
Remember Obama's "beer summit" with Henry Gates and that cop? That was absurd. Obama's failed attempt to get the Olympics in Chicago? That was absurd. Accepting the Peace Prize for doing nothing and then droning people was tragi-comic, as was his furtive smoking behind the White House. Man, if I was president, I would have lit up in the frikkin' Oval Office. "Get me an ashtray, flunky!"
Currently there is a juggernaut of establishment personnel--both Dem and GOP--that is actively sabotaging the new administration. Flynn was bounced specifically to preserve the Iran deal. I am concerned that, as Trump is perceived as the 'enemy' by both groups, things will get much worse.
Ann wrote:
just as some things work better with uniform federal law, but when that uniformity is not a positive good, lean toward local democracy. I'm not saying this political argument will necessarily work, just that it has potential to singe their conscience.
Repeal Obergefell, Roe, Lawrence v Texas & all the pro-New Deal economic Supreme Court decisions, and we'll talk.
Until then? A political principle that doesn't restrain you, doesn't restrain me. We know what the Left would do if it had the power, we've seen them do it. Turn about is fair play
Althouse asserts: If they believe in the values of federalism — that decentralization produces law that is well-tailored to local conditions and preferences — then they should respect the autonomy of cities.
It is my understanding that the notion of federalism was to prevent centralization. Once the toothpaste is out of the tube, well....
Interesting sub-discussion on firearms. My personal belief is that urban warfare will not take place between team blue and team red. If that happens it will be team green, you know, the guys with tanks taking part.
But I can imagine (and am horrified at the thought of) some of the anarchists trying to spread out from the cities to terrorize the suburban/rural areas. Might have some initial success too. We tend to be a peaceful lot despite the bravado. But this would be guerrilla tactics, I would think. A mass swarm from the cites would resemble Pickett's Charge in short order.
Guerilla tactics work best on an invading force/one where you are already part of the population. To think that small groups of raiders could leave the city and significantly disturb the rural areas is doubtful. The range of firearms comes up again. Hell an old, trusty 30-30 beats the snot out of that concealable 9mm across an open area. That doesn't mentioned scoped deer rifles or the AR platforms that proliferate.
Nope, not door-to-door in the city. We don't want to take over the city. Watts and other mass riots of the past might be instructive. At a certain point the local forces contained the riots to the area inhabited by the rioters. In a real red/blue "war" or race riot, the local police might well be overwhelmed and the local area not hold the upheaval. In that case God help the good folk left there when the SHTF.
It would be a containment effort outside the urban core. Leaving the cities to burn. Awful to contemplate.
@JAORE - only point here is that a lot of the Abrams and Warthogs are now controlled by the states, through their National Guards. And, yes, the weekend warriors driving them, even in Blue States, tend to be Red State adherents. Interesting discussion on this, and other related subjects, is in a paper by Glenn Reynolds on coups, etc that he has linked to recently on Instapundit.
NorthEast America would be a liberal democracy, similar in size to Germany. It would be a significant nuclear power (Leo Szilard was on the Columbia faculty and had the patent), but have a relatively small standing army. It would have universal health insurance.
They'd have to reimburse the US for everything federal tax monies put in their states. The roads, etc. With their budgets already in terrible shape (pie-in-the-sky optimism of investment gains don't actually make the bottom line better), that'd blow holes in their budgets --- having to spend trillions of dollars in compensation. Good luck paying for the guns and all.
Speaking of heap big costs ... building a nuclear infrastructure from scratch? Patents, yes, but actual supply of control rods and waldos and dosimeters? Well, if not the actual industry, they at least have all the gear and skilled people at Indian Point...oh wait...
nypost.com/2017/01/09/new-york-will-pay-big-for-cuomos-indian-point-shutdown/
Jan 9, 2017 - Gov. Cuomo just struck a deal to shutter the nuclear reactors at the Indian Point Energy Center by 2021. Cuomo has been agitating to close the ...
Doesn't matter. They'll just build another one, up somewhere in the Croton watershed, or in the Catskills/Delaware region maybe....doh!
How New York City gets its water: From reservoir to tap | am New York
www.amny.com/lifestyle/how-nyc-gets-its-water-1.9205765
And no more shipping trash out to landfills in VA or OH either.
PBJ_MolestsThirdGraders, I must congratulate you. You are truly content free, nails on a blackboard. I can't figure out what Once written did to get banned before you did. But please do it.
Todd, thank you for the info. I'll have to check it out to see if it's worthwhile, as the .22 is really just for our kids fun, although my daughter can mark quite the target with our Winchester M-75 (1946) when the mood fits.
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