February 1: I noticed he was the bearer of the message: "we are officially putting Iran on notice."
January 22: I noticed Trump, speaking at the CIA, called out to him: "And by the way, General Flynn is right over here. Put up your hand, Mike. What a good guy."
December 10: Ah! Here's the important one:
Michael Flynn — Trump's choice for National Security Adviser — says there is Arabic signage marking "lanes of entry" for "radicalized Muslims" to enter the U.S. from Mexico.
Back in August, he said:
"I know from my friends in the Border Patrol in CBP that there are countries — radical Islamist countries, state-sponsored — that are cutting deals with Mexican drug cartels for some of what they call the 'lanes of entry' into our country... And I have personally seen the photos of the signage along those paths that are in Arabic. They're like way points along that path as you come in. Primarily, in this case the one that I saw was in Texas and it's literally, it's like signs, that say, in Arabic, 'this way, move to this point.' It's unbelievable. This rise of Muslims and radicalized Muslims coming into our country illegally is something that we should pay very, very close attention to."My first reaction was: He sounds too nutty to be National Security Adviser....
Posts
199 comments:
Trump is a loyal guy, so it was pretty clear Flynn crossed a rather well-defined line. I suspect lying to the VP was the deal killer. It was reported this morning that Pence led the charge for his ouster. I have no issues with his departure. Of course, the media will claim his scalp. "We did it", we did it!!!"
This feeds the Trump = chaos narrative. Flynn didn't even last 30 days. MSM cheering.
Trump found out about the money he got from the Russian govt in 2015.
The first of many firings.
Flynn is the first casualty in the Trump wars. I am not very sorry to see him go. You cannot lie about what he lied about. My first choice was always Petraeus and now Trump may get a chance to hire him. I like it that Trump has no problem firing incompetent employees. I am also sure there are plenty of good candidates to replace Flynn.
MSNBC, "Is Trump up to the task of governing?"
Lol @ Petraeus. Weren't all the people here up in arms about secrecy and emails all fall .... and you're willing to overlook what Petraeus did in that regard?
So it wasn't really about the emails after all, that was just trumped up bullshit you are now happy to ignore. Got it.
The reaction from the left will no doubt be rational and measured, satisfied Trump did the right thing.
Or not.
"sounds nutty."
Because he is concerned about National security. Right. He should be busing in illegals from Central America, like the last guy.
At a minimum, Flynn was well qualified to be NSA. Contrast that with Obama's two advisors: Tom Donilon who had no military experience but was a career pol and a lawyer and Susan Rice who was an academic and bureaucrat who lied her ass off re Benghazi but was not harassed out of her job by the media.
Tom Friedman on MSNBC just now regarding Trump, Flynn and Russia, "Russia hacked our election. It was a Pearl Harbor scale event. It was a 9/11 scale event."
Casualties?
Tom Friedman, " What did the President know and when did he know it? "
Richard Haas, " The impeachment word is now coming out."
Joe Scarborough, " A storm is coming."
Russia. Russia. Russia.
Trump on a winning streak with another LOSS.
"Lol @ Petraeus. Weren't all the people here up in arms about secrecy and emails all fall .... and you're willing to overlook what Petraeus did in that regard?"
He did his time. Just like Hillary, he's learned his lesson and won't do it again.
Who are they trying to impeach this time? The NSA, Gen Flynn? He was fired. Trump? For firing Flynn? These clowns are just barking crazy.
@Meade - except, of course, that Crooked Hillary never did face the music, and have her (figurative) day in court while Gen Petraeus did.
This makes Pence look like a stickler for honesty.
Which is a good look.
Trump made an appropriate decision, when he could have been stubborn. Good leadership and good management. Of course, that's not the way the media will spin it.
The people who knew what Flynn said in these wire-tapped conversations were very few and high-ranking. My guess is that the leaker was a top official in the FBI.
I think Flynn would have done a good job.
I don't think he was nutty at all.
So the Deep State has joined the Fourth Estate to undermine the Red States. It's basically the fight expected for the people to challenge their authority.
Anybody that says the hacking of Podesta's emails is like Pearl Harbor or 9/11 is a moron. Thomas Friedman I see basically saying the event justifies military retaliation against Russia; something Hillary was willing to do. Flynn was not, so he has to go.
All this saber rattling against Russia by a desperate left is insane. Anybody want to get their kids in a fight with Russia?
Tom Friedman on MSNBC just now regarding Trump, Flynn and Russia, "Russia hacked our election. It was a Pearl Harbor scale event. It was a 9/11 scale event."
Just to make sure, that was Thomas "A dictatorship isn't a bad idea" Friedman?
Trump didn't keep somebody who lied to him on the staff. Obama was always caught by surprise and learned of all problems from the press and didn't fire anybody over any of them.
Russia hacked our election. It was a Pearl Harbor scale event. It was a 9/11 scale event.
If it's only a Pearl Harbor 9/11 scale event why are lefties treating it like a meteor struck Earth causing WWI and WWII to crash into the Civil War scaring locusts and setting off the bubonic plague scale event?
Trump made an appropriate decision, when he could have been stubborn. Good leadership and good management. Of course, that's not the way the media will spin it.
2/14/17, 6:42 AM
This is true, but I am not happy about Petraeus (or the VA pick either - quite disappointing.) I'm not sorry to see Flynn go though. Dubya could be loyal to a fault and nobody was ever canned for incompetence during the Obama era no badly how badly they f'ed up. Trump doesn't have problems giving people the boot.
This means Hillary gets to be President, right?
The Morning Joe people hold themselves out as the great sophisticates. But in reality they are raving lunatics. Overreaction doesn't begin to describe their performance today.
You didn't seem to notice reports of his close ties to Russia dating way back to the campaign. That's too bad.
My first reaction to Flynn was, "What's with this guy's ties to RT and Putin?" Ask yourself why Trump can't say a bad word against Putin. Still think it's all fake news?
I think that this is a good thing, not a bad thing. Indeed, Trump put the fear of publicly being fired in the minds of all of his cabinet picks. Cross him, or embarrass him by failing to keep him informed, and you are out, immediately. Essentially playing a bit of Apprentice with his subordinates. As noted, Obama was always finding out what was going on below him in the papers. Which is horrible management. The worst. Good bosses don't want to be surprised - their subordinates are supposed to tell them the bad news before it gets out, because it usually will. It lets them get in front of it, instead of being behind. Of course, Obama had no management training going into the job, which is why voting for him in the first place was so idiotic (at least McCain had had Annapolis, War College, and experience up through the ranks to O6, plus a father and grandfather who both retired with four stars). There was no reason, whatsoever, to have expected Obama to have known how to do the basic functions of running a large organization. None. And, of course, he didn't disappoint - he was just as clueless as his experience suggested. Which was probably what a lot of those who put him there wanted - private fiefdoms. Trump just made clear that this won't happen on his watch.
What? I won't believe this until I hear it through 21st Century Fireside Twitter. Fake News as far as I'm concerned. Cruelly Neutral didn't think he was a big deal, so there's that, too.
Looks like Trump was AOK with this nut until the Dishonest News at Wapo reported that he was a blackmail threat. Flynn was involved through out the day yesterday. He even participated in Mar a Lago NoKo diplomacy by cell phone light fiasco. Cruelly Neutral ignored that too!
Now he's considering the guy who thinks with his little head! Great.
I, for one, would like to see the actual evidence of "the close ties" of Trump and Flynn to Russia. Loans? Money? Mortgages? Real estate? What is it.
I think AA is right - at least Flynn came across that way - but it is a bad thing that these leakers in the "intelligence community" got his scalp and this quick. It would have been well if Trump had their names and could have fired them along with Flynn.
No one is asking if Flynn did this on his own volition, or was he directed to by Trump? Trump knew what Flynn did for three weeks (or much longer ago), why wasn't Flynn fired immediately. Our national security is at question. This is the Presidency, not a reality show.
One more reason I'm glad I voted Trump. Look at Susan Rice vs Flynn reaction. There is now an accountable government. That is a very good thing.
Had to go. I think I'm sorry to see him go though. Petraeus? That works for me. I think he'll understand better his role as the Advisor, not the maker of policy.
Don't get me started on the incompetents that were part of the Obama NS Team. I'll leave it to Gates:
Gates went to see Donilon, offering up a barbed assessment of how the White House had handled the aftermath of the Osama raid.
“I have a new strategic communications approach to recommend," Gates said in his trademark droll tones, according to an account later provided by his colleagues.
What was that, Donilon asked?
“Shut the fuck up," the defense secretary said.
BH:
It's not just the cabinet that now has a well-justified "fear of publicly being fired" if they screw up. He now has a freer hand in firing Obama leftovers: any complaints can be met with "if I'm willing to fire my own picks when they screw up, why in Hell shouldn't I fire people who were never on my team to begin with and are screwing up on purpose?"
David Begley,
The investigations are underway. We'll know just how close Trump is to Putin, and why, hopefully soon.
If Flynn was a Democrat, the story would be about spy agencies listening in on his private phone calls. And if they do listen in on everybody, I assume they got good tapes of Obama negotiating with Rod Blagojevich about the sale of Obama's Senate seat. Oh that's right. They warned Obama that the FBI was recording the calls to entrap Blago.
"No one is askingif Flynn did this on his own volition, or was he directed to by Trump?"
No one with sense.
In any speculation about which high-ranking Intelligence officials have leaked some information in order to undermine Trump's governance, the list of suspects always should include James Clapper, the Director of National Intelligence.
If you are going to make the assertion that Trump and his Administration are Russian operatives working to undermine America and turn it into a modern day Soviet satellite State, then be man enough to make it.
Don't see a problem with sacking Flynn but what's so looney about the drug-cartel/jihadi thing? Terrorists and drug cartels have always been good buds. Is it just the "Arabic signage" thing that seems nutty to you?
David Begley: Tom Friedman on MSNBC just now regarding Trump, Flynn and Russia, "Russia hacked our election. It was a Pearl Harbor scale event. It was a 9/11 scale event."
Friedman is as dumb as a box of rocks and a total whore; nice to know he's as crazy as he is stupid and whorey.
As far as I can tell Flynn did one thing wrong; lie to Pence. Which is a firing offence IMO.
Original Mike. If any of you people had sense you would've been asking more about Trump and his bromance with Putin a year ago. I didn't want to say this so soon in the thread, but damn you people are stupid. So very very very stupid.
Drill Sgt:
Do you think the big mouths, after the Osama killing, could have contributed to the 24 Seals being shot down?
Drill Sergeant: agree. Trump and Flynn both speak in short and pithy sound bites like Gates. It destroys listeners "safe spaces" to hear talk like that. I hate to see Flynn go but it is another example of the transition problems from Command to Advisor status. Once a warrior, always a warrior. Flynn was way ahead of the pack and liberals today don't like leaders who work off the " Rez-
Reservation."
"Friedman is as dumb as a box of rocks and a total whore; nice to know he's as crazy as he is stupid and whorey."
For some reason I had it in my head that he was a smart guy, but I haven't read or seen him in a long time. But I saw him last Sunday on MTP and my reaction was, "This guy's a dope."
Gusty Winds said...
So the Deep State has joined the Fourth Estate to undermine the Red States.
This was an own goal. No one made Trump pick Flynn and no one made Flynn lie.
Anyone within arm's reach of SockPuppet#55? Then what the fuck are you waiting for?
I believe Gen Barry McCaffrey suggested some of Flynn's tweets sounded "demented"-- he was right and we and him should not have reconsidered the appraisal. This possible double agent does not belong in the White House! This is bad, bad-- in Trump language.
AJ Lynch said...
If it was the shoot-down in Aug 6, 2011, No.
I think that was tactical overconfidence, whether by the overall onsite commander or the Chinook Pilot. The LZ should have been overwatched and prepped by onsite AH-64's, or located farther away from known positions.
I think someone, Trump, may have made Flynn lie, or perhaps supported Flynn lying. Why did Trump support Flynn up until yesterday. Trump knew about this for weeks (probably far longer).
The hypocrisy and self delusion on the right is astounding.
Flynn should start a a chant, " Lock me up, lock me up..."
On the whole, the Trump picks have been pretty good. Flynn always seemed to me to be an aberration. Petraeus would be a big improvement.
Flynn IS a Democrat.
Evidence of Flynn's Russian connection ain't evidence until Real Donald says so on Twitter, you know speaking directly to the people, going around the Dishonest Media. Don't bother looking for his Russian connection if you get your info directlly from Real Donald or Cruelly Neutral.
The real problem for Flynn is that he didn't realize that the NSA was recording this Ruskie's calls. Really? Is he that stupid? What was he before, DNI or DDI or something. What a dope! Then to lie and undermine his credibility with intelligence? They were right to rat him out.
Humperdink: I have no issues with his departure. Of course, the media will claim his scalp. "We did it", we did it!!!"
I think it's nice that they have a little consolatory scrap to turn to when contemplating the rest of the cabinet and other administrative appointments becomes just to painful to bear.
Per Rep.Adam Schiff there were many Flynn contacts with Russia, some may have been encrypted communications, but I'm sure that too will be dismissed as fake news.
Petraeus would be a big improvement.
For all of you having conniptions about Hillary's mishandling of classified information (which a good number of you wanted her thrown in jail for), how on earth can you defend Patraeus? He shouldn't even be allowed to have a security clearance any longer.
Funny how the Trumpies continue to delude themselves.
It took 2 years to impeach Nixon after the Watergate break-in was discovered. The clock started ticking yesterday for Trump.
Why did Trump support Flynn up until yesterday. Trump knew about this for weeks (probably far longer).
Because Trump thought he could get away with it. I will go further, I bet Trump told Flynn to tell the Russian ambassador not to worry about the sanctions.
You want your first impeachable crime. Violating the Logan Act while President Elect. The evidence will be hard to gather, Flynn, assuming he is a good soldier, will die on his sword before admitting Trump told him to do it. But I am heartened that we are only three weeks in and the incompetence and lies are beginning to catch up with them.
"For all of you having conniptions about Hillary's mishandling of classified information ..."
My big beef with Hillary was setting up the server to hide her work product from the American people. That's disqualifying as far as I'm concerned.
The Washington Post indicates the leakers:
The acting attorney general informed the Trump White House late last month that she believed Michael Flynn had misled senior administration officials about the nature of his communications with the Russian ambassador to the United States, and warned that the national security adviser was potentially vulnerable to Russian blackmail, current and former U.S. officials said.
The message, delivered by Sally Q. Yates and a senior career national security official to the White House counsel, was prompted by concerns that Flynn ....
James R. Clapper Jr., who was the director of national intelligence, and John Brennan, the CIA director at the time, shared Yates’s concerns and concurred with her recommendation to inform the Trump White House ...
The FBI, Yates, Clapper and Brennan declined to comment on the matter. ...
For Yates and other officials, concerns about the communications peaked in the days after the Obama administration on Dec. 29 announced measures to punish Russia for what it said was the Kremlin’s interference in the election in an attempt to help Trump. ...
Yates, then the deputy attorney general, considered Flynn’s comments in the intercepted call to be “highly significant” and “potentially illegal,” ....
Yates and other intelligence officials suspected that Flynn could be in violation of an obscure U.S. statute known as the Logan Act ....
Word of the calls leaked out on Jan. 12 in an op-ed by Post columnist David Ignatius. “What did Flynn say, and did it undercut U.S. sanctions?” Ignatius wrote, citing the Logan Act. ....
Yates, Clapper and Brennan argued for briefing the incoming administration so the new president could decide how to deal with the matter. .....
Clapper and Brennan left their positions when Trump was sworn in, but Yates stayed on as acting attorney general until Jan. 30, when Trump fired her for refusing to defend his executive order ....
Yates again raised the issue with Comey ....
I forgot to provide the link.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/justice-department-warned-white-house-that-flynn-could-be-vulnerable-to-russian-blackmail-officials-say/2017/02/13/fc5dab88-f228-11e6-8d72-263470bf0401_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_flynn-0818pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.c4c57a6ac58e
Jacksonjay
Maybe the CIA made up the transcripts. Who would know.
I don't know if Flynn is 'nutty' or not. But I have also spoken with Border Patrol agents in TX and in AZ who know of apprehensions of Muslims who have entered or tried to enter the US from the MX border. One was a woman caught photographing a military installation. A cursory glance at a few local newspapers in these states will confirm this. These items never, ever make the MSM news. We wouldn't want to arouse Islamophobia.
Flynn's "work product" was done even beforeTrump was sworn in and some of those communications with Russia BEFORE Trump was President, may have been encrypted. What was he trying to hide and from who? The Logan Act may be the least of his (and Trump's) problems.
"The real problem for Flynn is that he didn't realize that the NSA was recording this Ruskie's calls. Really? Is he that stupid? What was he before, DNI or DDI or something. What a dope! Then to lie and undermine his credibility with intelligence?"
Yeah.
Yates at DOJ had the transcripts. Did she have a warrant to wiretap Flynn? Can we see the affidavit that supported the warrant?
Or was it just the CIA running its regular Bugs on the Russians? The same CIA Trump trashed.
At least by the standards of this forum I do not believe I am a conspiracy theorist, but there is something deeply wrong with Trump's Russian connections. Admittedly, I hate Putin, who has taken a country with a lot of potential and created a train wreck, but even accounting for this bias these seems to be something dodgy here. Time will reveal all, but this is now no longer surprising, "Russian lawmakers mount fierce defense of Michael Flynn, who resigned as Trump's national security adviser." For some reason the Russians believe that they have influence in US politics.
I do not care about Flynn talking to the Russians. I do care about the leak of actual phone calls by intelligence people To me that is dangerous and probably traitorous. The mistake was lying to Pence. It is one thing to lie to the press and others , but another to lie to your boss. That was unacceptable
At least we have accountability.
Reports of Flynn being caught on wiretap communicating with Russia came out in the news even before Obama left office. Why are you people so poorly informed? Flynn was being wiretapped before Obama left office, most likely.
jacksonjay at 7:42 AM
The real problem for Flynn is that he didn't realize that the NSA was recording this Ruskie's calls.
The wire-tapping of foreign embassies in the USA is done by the FBI.
Notice in the above Washington Post article that the FBI was asked to comment.
The FBI is under the Justice Department, the acting director of which was Susan Yates. She leaked the information to Washington Post reporter David Ignatius. Probably she got approval from DNI Director James Clapper and CIA Director John Brennan to lead the information.
"Flynn's "work product" was done even beforeTrump was sworn in ..."
So what? Devoid of other facts, there's nothing wrong with the incoming NSA talking to Russia. It would appear to be his job.
"I do not care about Flynn talking to the Russians. I do care about the leak of actual phone calls by intelligence people To me that is dangerous and probably traitorous."
Thank goodness that our Intel Community was looking out for our national security. That is their job and they did it. If you want to call anyone a traitor, look no further than your own President.
Freder Frederson said...
Petraeus would be a big improvement.
For all of you having conniptions about Hillary's mishandling of classified information (which a good number of you wanted her thrown in jail for), how on earth can you defend Patraeus? He shouldn't even be allowed to have a security clearance any longer.
--------------------
Has Hillary paid her $10,000 fine? Has she served her year of probation?
Really Original Mike? I think you are very very mistaken. Making deals regarding dropping sanctions and the expulsion of Russian spies on the very day Obama expelled them is allowed to a private citizen? If not expressly illegal, it's unethical.
None of this bodes well, from Flynn trying to conduct diplomacy while Obama was still president (illegal, by the way) to Flynn not realizing his phone would be tapped in such conversations (wasn't he head of DIA? How on earth does he not know that?) to the scourge of leaks that brought this out, to Flynn lying to Pence and the administration getting its whole message garbled more than normal.
Hopefully this forces enough of a shakeup to end amateur hour and get everyone's shit together. They may have to deal with an actual foreign policy crisis some day.
I enjoyed reading all the comments. The reasonable people said some derivation of "Trump made the right call getting rid of a liability for whatever reasons there were."
Wild eyed Leftists then ask us to compare the universe to some perfect alternative. Also, they assert perfect knowledge.
And everybody ignores the crazy.
Well played normal people.
"Really Original Mike? I think you are very very mistaken. Making deals regarding dropping sanctions and the expulsion of Russian spies on the very day Obama expelled them is allowed to a private citizen? If not expressly illegal, it's unethical."
I thought it violated the Logan Act--Nixon's surrogate Chennault was accused of doing that in '68. Another thing I'd expect a DIA man like Flynn to be aware of. The whole thing stinks.
" The reasonable people said some derivation of "Trump made the right call getting rid of a liability for whatever reasons there were."
Wild eyed Leftists then ask us to compare the universe to some perfect alternative. Also, they assert perfect knowledge.
And everybody ignores the crazy.
Well played normal people."
I guess it's difficult to see the light with your head stuck up Trump's ass.
"Making deals regarding dropping sanctions and the expulsion of Russian spies on the very day Obama expelled them is allowed to a private citizen? If not expressly illegal, it's unethical."
You don't know what was discussed, but taking your claim as a hypothetical, I still don't have a problem with it. What does the US get for dropping Obama's dopey sanctions? Might be well worth it.
oops :-)
I imagine that Susan Yates was hysterically enraged when she saw that Hillary Clinton was defeated by Donald Trump. If Clinton had won, Yates would have been promoted from acting Attorney General to actual Attorney General.
Washington Post reporter David Ignatius could not publish his article with only Yates as the single source. He needed a couple of other sources to confirm the story, and they were DNI Director James Clapper and CIA Director John Brennan.
After all, how many people knew and could confirm what Flynn had said in a wire-tapped telephone conversation with the Russian embassy. The number of such people was very, very small.
Well Mike, I guess you can say that Trump really got Trumped by Yates. The fillin AG brought down the NSA and gave Real Trump a good kick in the shin. Apparently she warned him and Real Trump apparently thought he could ride it out. WaPo is Fake News anyway. Dishonest Media.
Original Mike,
The leaks, which were proven true, also spoke about what was discussed. One phone call ( there were many)was entirely about lifting the sanctions, again done by a private citizen. Of course all that reporting of the leaks is just fake news, right?
Flynn has a serious case of what USGrant had. He fights to win. Ergo: The eternal stalemate war guys who planned to defeat the gangly Illinos monkey in the 1864 election spread slanders about alcohol and bad battle plans in every news cycle.
But Grant had Lincoln on his side " because he fights". So did Flynn until he put Pence out on a limb. Pence is more valuable.
Islamism is real. He's right about that.
Everything in the leak was proven true? I'll reserve judgement. But as to Flynn being a private citizen, he was the incoming NSA, so I'm not outraged. If he broke the law, charge him. Fine by me.
Thanks, tradguy, for reminding us of the historical precedent for these smear campaigns.
Flynn violated no laws. Nor did he do anything unethical, in my opinion. Talking with your counterpart during the transition should be expected, and prudent.
Flynn was not totally truthful with Pence, for whatever reason, and Pence felt a bond of trust was broken. Fired.
Nothing more, nothing less.
"You don't know what was discussed, but taking your claim as a hypothetical, I still don't have a problem with it. What does the US get for dropping Obama's dopey sanctions? Might be well worth it."
Well this is important--I thought it was leaked that he did in fact discuss dropping the sanctions? If that's not the case--if he just called to say "hi hows the fam, I'll be the new adviser and we'll talk much when our team takes over" then that's obviously not against the law and he shouldn't have resigned. But making foreign policy as a private citizen without clearance to do so is clearly illegal. If this was say Kushner doing it we could chalk it off to his not working in government before, but Flynn? He should have known.
As for dropping sanctions, it's true that the policy itself is not necessarily a bad thing--all depends on what ends it serves. But I don't think that the policy itself is what got Flynn oustered.
Trump doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would discard a loyalist easily. Flynn screwed up, it happens.
So it wasn't really about the emails after all, that was just trumped up bullshit you are now happy to ignore. Got it.
Petraeus was brought up on charges, pled guilty and received his punishment. After all that I would like Trump to draw upon his expertise. He’s obviously a gifted military leader who knows a great deal about the Middle East and has had success there.
Hillary, on the other hand, other than losing an election, has managed so far to avoid any accounting for much worse transgressions than ever was performed by Petraeus. As of today she is free to enjoy her ill-gotten millions which were gained by selling out her country to the highest bidder. This after stupidly allowing any hacker who might have been interested to gain entry to her high level communications during her disastrous stint at the State Department.
But anti-Trumpers are not known for their sense of proportion or of scale, thus the commentor’s attitude. For them Petraeus’s one traffic violation is the same as Hillary’s multiple DWIs.
ARM asserts: For some reason the Russians believe that they have influence in US politics.
And the Chinese believed they had influence during the Clinton administration.
Has Hillary paid her $10,000 fine? Has she served her year of probation?
I'm sorry, I must have missed the conviction of Hillary Clinton.
If I had done what Patraeus did, I would consider myself extremely lucky to get off with a $10,000 fine and a year of probation. But one thing is certain, it would be impossible for me to get a security clearance (just a simple Secret), let alone the highest level clearance, for the rest of my life.
Also, remember that if he was still active duty when he was having his affair, adultery is still a crime under the UCMJ.
So Begley believes that the Real Donald fired Flynn because of Fake CIA transcripts. Maybe the Real Donald can send us a Tweet and tell us what really happened. Sad.
Flynn lied to Pence; that's a firing offense. We could use more firings in Washington.
They have known for weeks that Flynn lied to Pence. We found out yesterday.
The any port in a storm crowd is amusing.
Read Flynn's book. If you do, you will not be sorry that he left this job.
"For some reason the Russians believe that they have influence in US politics"
Maybe they thought they'd have more flexibility after the election.
I like the idea of picking Petraeus. As some clueless Lefties above demonstrated, it'll turn the conversation once again to the Democrat's hypocrisy and incompetence regarding national security.
"So it wasn't really about the emails after all, that was just trumped up bullshit you are now happy to ignore. Got it."
For some of us "the emails" were--and remain--a big deal, and the latest security breaches under Trump are no less disturbing. It is possible, of course, that our choice last November was a lousy one.
At least by the standards of this forum I do not believe I am a conspiracy theorist, but there is something deeply wrong with Trump's Russian connections.
I, too, think there has always been something "deeply wrong" with the connections of powerful people in our government with various foreign dirtbags. I also think it's interesting to note who gets excited over which US-influencing foreign dirtbag, and when and why, and how various US-influencing foreign dirtbags are covered (or, more often, not covered) in the press. (For example, the neocon crowd and the usual Davos-sycophant NGO suspects had been going full-court press nutty about Russia since before Trump even hove into view. Interesting.)
Admittedly, I hate Putin, who has taken a country with a lot of potential and created a train wreck...
Lots of good reasons to dislike and be wary of Putin, but the idea that Russia was a country on a sound path until Putin turned it into a train wreck is laughable.
For some reason the Russians believe that they have influence in US politics.
For some reason, a lot of foreign dirtbags believe that they have influence in US politics - because they do. YMMV on which ones you think are most dangerous, and doing the most damage to the interests of American citizens.
"Maybe they thought they'd have more flexibility after the election."
Isn't that the fun part, though? No matter what, Putin always seems to get a White House that thinks they can charm him over and handle him. Meanwhile he's always expanding his reach.
Obama didn't have a bromance with Putin and was very open about his dislike for the man. Also, Obama was President, NOT a private citizen when he made the comment about flexibility. That comment was made in 2012.
Lyle said...
"Islamism is real. He's right about that."
Yeah, but so what. I liked what I heard about Flynn, so I checked out his book. He is long on tactics and short on strategy. One more macho guy who thinks the answer to Islamic aggression is to suck the Saudis dicks. What is it about swarthy fat men in robes with towels on their heads that gets these guys so excited? I suppose it's all the money.
Leftist Collectivists: How dare you think well of Petraeus when he did similar things as Hillary did. How scandalous and hypocritical.
Never you mind our defenses if Hillary and our blatant hypocrisy.
Normal people: Collective yawns.
Everyone in Washington who works in government should at all times exercise operational security with respect to phone calls and computer use. Assume that your phone conversations are being monitored, even if only occasionally, and that your emails are being intercepted. Assume that face-to-face conversations with government and military officials and representatives are being recorded. Place masking tape over the lens of your computer camera when working at home; turn off your cell phone and any devices that have voice command-and-response capabilities. If you're reading sensitive documents even in you home assume that a drone or satellite is reading those documents through your windows. If you are having sensitive conversations at home assume that someone knows about them and is listening in.
These are all protocols I'm obliged to follow by my employer. At first I thought he was crazy. I don't think he's crazy now. I'm surprised that Flynn didn't exercise the same degree of operational security, didn't have the same assumptions and act accordingly.
I like the idea of picking Petraeus. As some clueless Lefties above demonstrated, it'll turn the conversation once again to the Democrat's hypocrisy and incompetence regarding national security.
Really, seems to me it'll turn the conversation once again to the Republican's hypocrisy and incompetence regarding national security.
Jacksonjay
You have to concede the CIA and NSA want revenge against Trump. It is not as if the CIA doesn't engage in dirty tricks.
Well Freder, you and I know Hillary did worse, but I don't think he should get the job.
It would be funny to see the same people that ignored Hillary's shenanigans argue that it is disqualifying in his case though. There would be plenty of hypocrisy to go around.
Freder Frederson said...
Has Hillary paid her $10,000 fine? Has she served her year of probation?
I'm sorry, I must have missed the conviction of Hillary Clinton.
----------------------------
You drew the parallel between what Petraeus did and what Hillary did. Perhaps her electoral defeat last November was her conviction. Question now should be: has she done her time?
You guys have to disown her or shut up.
"You have to concede the CIA and NSA want revenge against Trump."
Maybe the CIA and the NSA know that Trump has been compromised by a foreign government.
Petraeus didn't have the scandal goalie at DOJ to protect him.
Keep defending the corruption though.
For the record, based on their experience and levels of competence, I'd be happy to see both Petraeus and Hillary back — Petraeus in some kind of national security role and Hillary as Democrat presidential nominee in 2020.
"Really, seems to me it'll turn the conversation once again to the Republican's hypocrisy and incompetence regarding national security."
Well, Flynn is a Democrat.
Or maybe they are chock full of Democratic operatives at the top, like the IRS.
David Begley said...
Jacksonjay
You have to concede the CIA and NSA want revenge against Trump.
No. Susan Yates gave Trump's people a heads up. If they wanted revenge they would have allowed this particular screw-up to play out after Trump was in power, to inflict maximum damage. This is on Trump and Flynn.
At least Petraeus didn't put the classified material he mishandled on the freakin' internet.
"At least Petraeus didn't put the classified material he mishandled on the freakin' internet."
What sort of phone is Trump tweeting from?
Flynn is a registered Democrat and was appointed to run the DIA by Obama. He seems to have made enemies on both sides of the aisle, so his resignation probably makes a lot of people happy.
I seem to recall that he was on Mad Dog Mattis' shit list for exaggerating intelligence reports. Trump seems to have made a bad hiring decision - something that never happens with Democrat POTUSes. At least he corrected his error early on.
"What sort of phone is Trump tweeting from?"
Don't know what that has to do with the Hillary/Petareus comparison.
Ann Althouse said...My first reaction was: He sounds too nutty to be National Security Adviser.
Flynn was President Obama's Director of the DIA, was assistant director DNI, JSOC senior intelligence officer, retired as a 3 star Army General after 33 years in service, and has a chest full of medals (including a Bronze Star w/3 clusters). Yep, a real nutball, that guy.
Oh well, fuck 'em all, I guess: if they're a part of the Trump team they deserve whatever anyone says about them. The Media is happy so this must be a great thing.
If the Trump people were smart they'd have said "Flynn told the Russian Ambassador that after Mr. Trump is elected he'll have "more flexibility" to deal with tough issues like sanctions." No one could possibly object to that.
Look, if Flynn embarrassed the Admin and/or misled Pence then the admin was probably right to get rid of him. There's no reason to buy into the Left/Media bullshit that this is some huge piece of evidence that Trump is corrupt, or that Flynn is corrupt, or that Flynn is stupid, evil, or dishonorable. It's frankly disgusting to listen to people trash him and his career--and think it's ok to do so since he's Trump's guy and it's a convenient way to kick Trump.
He fucked up, he resigned, Trump accepted the resignation. That sounds a lot like accountability, to me.
Begley,
Of course ARM is right.
Who knows how the spooks feel about Trump? Real Donald acted like the rank and file loves him. I'm pretty sure it was unwise to pick a fight with them and make that crazy speech in front of The Wall about crowd size. Brennan and Donalin loyalist will surely undermine him. Trump started this during the campagn, so he made his bed. Of course, this is the problem with the Fourth branch. They're mostly Democrats. Draining the swamp might not be that easy. I remember how the State department sabotaged W during his GWOT.
Yeah, and Flynn never got captured by Cong.
Meade said...
Freder Frederson said...
Has Hillary paid her $10,000 fine? Has she served her year of probation?
I'm sorry, I must have missed the conviction of Hillary Clinton.
----------------------------
You drew the parallel between what Petraeus did and what Hillary did. Perhaps her electoral defeat last November was her conviction. Question now should be: has she done her time?
2/14/17, 9:22 AM"
Now is the time for Sessions to start looking for a special prosecutor to look into the Hillary Clinton scandals.
Are tweets classified?
If you guys had asked the same questions of Hillary, some other Democrat would likely be POTUS.
Still you defend her.
"Also, Obama was President, NOT a private citizen when he made the comment about flexibility. That comment was made in 2012."
Oh, back when the '80's were calling...
When I heard Flynn say "We are officially putting Iran on notice," I thought "What's next, Double-Secret Probation?" and immediately knew he had to go.
To sum up, Lieutenant General (Ret) Dirtbag has he distinction of being fired for cause by two presidents. To ease his wounded prize, the General (Ret) will be awarded a Purple Heart with oak leaf clusters (denoting a second award).
"Animals are generally not eligible for the Purple Heart; however, there have been rare instances when animals holding military rank were honored with the award. An example includes the horse Sergeant Reckless during the Korean War."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Heart
Flynn will now resume his career of writing paid fawning OpEd articles praising the likes of Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.
Daily Caller 11/11/2016
Trump’s Top Military Adviser Is Lobbying For Obscure Company With Ties To Turkish Government
"...Flynn wrote an op-ed for The Hill on Tuesday, just before Trump’s stunning upset of Hillary Clinton, in which he heaped praise on Erdogan and called on the next president, whoever that would be, to accede his request to extradite the U.S.-based Muslim cleric Fethullah Gülen back to Turkey."
http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/11/trumps-top-military-adviser-is-lobbying-for-obscure-company-with-ties-to-turkish-government/#ixzz4YgEBytbZ
Whatever distinguishing qualities Flynn has also seems to run in the family:
NY Times Dec 6, 2016
Trump Fires Adviser’s Son From Transition for Spreading Fake News
"President-elect Donald J. Trump on Tuesday fired one of his transition team’s staff members, Michael G. Flynn, the son of Mr. Trump’s choice for national security adviser, for using Twitter to spread a fake news story about Hillary Clinton that led to an armed confrontation in a pizza restaurant in Washington."
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/06/us/politics/michael-flynn-son-trump.html?_r=0
Typo correction. Wounded pride, not prize.
. The Media is happy so this must be a great thing.
This reminds me of the Paul Wellstone funeral. The Democrats turned it into a political rally.
They haven't learned. They just don't get it. All they are doing is proving to us who voted for Trump that it was the correct decision.
Limbaugh is breathlessly spewing the ever persuasive "but Obama..., but Hillary ... , but the Dishonest Media" argument. Sad.
StephenFearby,
Dirtbag. Purple Heart for animals. Hilarious stuff.
I think he had to go. There's plenty to criticize on the merits. I'm not going to insult him on his way out, for the reasons HoodlumDoodlum cites above. As Barney Greenwald said of Captain Queeg, I owed him a favor, don't you see?
One person was indicted for violation of the Logan Act, no one ever convicted. Had it been enforced I can think only of a very few Republican operatives to be fined and imprisoned. On the other hand there are hundreds of Democrat operatives and journalist that would be serving time in prison. Accusing someone of violating the Logan Act is nothing but political bull shit.
eric,
"This reminds me of the Paul Wellstone funeral. The Democrats turned it into a political rally."
Ah, this brings back fond memories. Not long after that, we had a professor from the University of Minnesota as a seminar speaker. Over dinner he described Wellstone's funeral, which he attended.
A colleague of mine, very liberal and also a man of great decency, brought up the reports that some of the liberals present had heckled a Republican speaker. He was sure this was being made up by partisans on the right to make the left look bad.
Our guest looked puzzled. "Of course we did." [Shrugged.] "We hate them."
traditionalguy said...
Flynn has a serious case of what USGrant had. He fights to win. Ergo: The eternal stalemate war guys who planned to defeat the gangly Illinos monkey in the 1864 election spread slanders about alcohol and bad battle plans in every news cycle.
But Grant had Lincoln on his side " because he fights". So did Flynn until he put Pence out on a limb. Pence is more valuable.
You ralize that that is mostly untrue?
General George B. McClellan (later the Democratic Party nominee for president) was famous for not fighting. But Lincoln found other infamous Union generals who would fight. They just couldn't do it competently. Sherman's admiration for Grant was based on competence. Grant followed "Fighting" Joe Hooker, who lost Chancellorsville. And Ambrose Burnside, who got an Army slaughtered at Antietam. And so on and so forth.
It wasn't generals who wouldn't fight. It was generals who didn't win.
"It wasn't generals who wouldn't fight. It was generals who didn't win."
That's very true, and the idea that Grant just "trudged on" wasting lives does a disservice to him--he was actually a pretty smart general who knew how to handle the rebs far better than most of his predecessors. And while McClellan was often overly cautious, he was the one who built the army into what it was, and in some cases did a pretty solid job against Lee (he gets a bad rap for Antietam for excessive caution, but his caution avoided the sorts of catastrophes that Hooker and Burnside got into and he did drive Lee out of Maryland).
Sherman and George Thomas were probably the only Union commanders who stood on a level with Grant though.
It was good of him to fall on his sword.
It seems sad that he will now have to survive on his $170k pension.
He'll probably have to move to Alabama to make ends meet.
Well, that was disgusting. Just watched Elijah Cummings sputtering about national security.
Good for the Democrats! We need some accountability and if Republicans won't investigate, then an Independant Commission should. Shame on Republicans. It's only disgusting to those who are afraid of the truth. No one is more hypocritical when it comes to national security than the Republicans.
Flynn needs to testify under oath regarding who instructed him to make deals with the Russians before Trump was sworn in. Will Flynn lie for Trump? It's unbelievable that Flynn did this on his own volition.
Perhaps a bit of context?
Ann Althouse said: "Obama has only been President for 17 days. It's mind-boggling how many screw-up there have been. "Stumbles"? Has there even ever been any normal walking in the Obama administration? It seems to me that the mode of ambulation is the stumble."
What's disgusting about Cummings as a spokesman on this is that he was a complete roadblock to investigating Clinton's breach of national security. He has Z.E.R.O. credibility.
Original Mike, what Clinton did was child's play compared to what may be going on in the Trump Administration. Clinton is a Pollyanna compared to Trump. Try to not be such a blatant partisan. A president who may be compromised by Russia is a far more serious threat than Clinton EVER was to our national security. When this is all said and done, Republicans are going to look very bad if they don't get on top of this now.
I still don't even understand the charge against Trump vis-a-vis the Russians.
"What's disgusting about Cummings as a spokesman on this is that he was a complete roadblock to investigating Clinton's breach of national security. He has Z.E.R.O. credibility."
Well now none of them have credibility. I guess it's too much to ask for principle to outweigh party, but here we are.
The implication by the Democrats that Flynn was a security risk are complete bollocks. Flynn may not have been a good manager and he may have mislead Pence, but he has demonstrated his patriotism and courage to speak his mind on many occasions.
He is out largely because he recognized and relentlessly articulated the truth about the Islamist threat. The Islamists and jihadists' tools on both sides and in the leftmedia didn't like it. So Allahu Akbar!
Original Mike,
Trump is being investigated for possible collusion with Russia in affecting an American election. Why are you people so poorly informed?
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article127231799.html
"WASHINGTON
The FBI and five other law enforcement and intelligence agencies have collaborated for months in an investigation into Russian attempts to influence the November election, including whether money from the Kremlin covertly aided President-elect Donald Trump, two people familiar with the matter said.
The agencies involved in the inquiry are the FBI, the CIA, the National Security Agency, the Justice Department, the Treasury Department’s Financial Crimes Enforcement Network and representatives of the director of national intelligence, the sources said.
Investigators are examining how money may have moved from the Kremlin to covertly help Trump win, the two sources said. One of the allegations involves whether a system for routinely paying thousands of Russian-American pensioners may have been used to pay some email hackers in the United States or to supply money to intermediaries who would then pay the hackers, the two sources said."
Original Mike asked,
"I still don't even understand the charge against Trump vis-a-vis the Russians."
Original Mike, my answer to you with a link from McClatchy regarding an investigation which is now underway by 5 Federal agencies was deleted. That really too bad.
"Original Mike, my answer to you with a link from McClatchy regarding an investigation which is now underway by 5 Federal agencies was deleted."
You think Althouse/Meade deleted it? Hard to believe.
Original Mike,
Who deleted it then? The NSC? It was an article from McClatchy from a couple of weeks ago.
OK let's try it again and see what happens.
"WASHINGTON
The FBI and five other law enforcement and intelligence agencies have collaborated for months in an investigation into Russian attempts to influence the November election, including whether money from the Kremlin covertly aided President-elect Donald Trump, two people familiar with the matter said.
The agencies involved in the inquiry are the FBI, the CIA, the National Security Agency, the Justice Department, the Treasury Department’s Financial Crimes Enforcement Network and representatives of the director of national intelligence, the sources said.
Investigators are examining how money may have moved from the Kremlin to covertly help Trump win, the two sources said. One of the allegations involves whether a system for routinely paying thousands of Russian-American pensioners may have been used to pay some email hackers in the United States or to supply money to intermediaries who would then pay the hackers, the two sources said.
Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article127231799.html#storylink=cpy
See? Gone as soon as I posted it. So was it the NSC or was it Meade? Why Meade or why NSC? Do we have censorship now?
Whatever. Do a search. "McClatchy Trump investigation 5 Agencies"
Neither of us deleted any comments to this post.
Wait. I see — it was caught in the spam filter.
Whaaaat? Spam filter? A McClatchy article? Strange.
Thanks for reposting!
I suspect the problem, sock puppet#55, is that instead of going to the trouble of making a link, you simply threw up the http address. Blogger often seems to reads that as spam.
You're welcome but nothing was reposted. I simply released it from the spam filter. Try making links next time.
Meade,
I've often just thrown up the http addy and it's never happened before. But I have no problem with making a link, I'll be sure to do that next time.
The other problem might be that you keep changing pseudonyms. You might have better luck if you stick to just one pseudonym so that Blogger can learn to recognize it. For example, try something like "Original Inga."
As an aside, cutting and pasting text into a browser window is really hard on an iPad. It's gotten to the point I will rarely make the effort.
On the substance: the Russians paid the hacker who phished John Podesta? That must have cost all of $10.
Hahaha, funny Meade. I've been SockPuppet#55 for a few days now. I like it.
Original Mike,
Really you think it's hard on an iPad? I exclusively use an iPad, I've never had a problem before, on Blogger. On Wordpress, yes. I find it very easy to cut and paste on an iPad.
It was funny, Meade, but I'm glad she didn't take your advice. I wouldn't want the Original name to be sullied.
You see, Original Mike has been around since like forever. So he could probably get away with a comment like "In your blog I was happy to see your article, better than last time, and have made great progress, I am very pleased. I am looking forward to your article will become better and better. hotmail login | red ball | 192.168.1.1" or something telling us about how some witchdoctor helped him to get his wife to love him again after her love grew cold and blah blah blah. Blogger would see the name "Original Mike" and robothink, "hmm... there's that guy who drinks nothing but Hopalicious beer" and send his comment straight through to be published, no one being any the wiser.
Sullied? Excuse me? It would be an honor.... to you.
Cutting text on the iPad touchscreen works very poorly. As usual, its attempt to guess what I want is usually wrong. And repeated attempts yield the same wrong result. I hate it.
"Hahaha, funny Meade. I've been SockPuppet#55 for a few days now. I like it"
Alright well don't come crying to me if the Russians hack into our spam filter and then send poor Mike Flynn to your Match.com file.
Eh, I don't buy it Meade. buy it Meade. It never got glitchy with me before, even when I changed psuedynyms several times in one day. I'm going to stick with SockPuppet# 55 for a while and see what happens.
Uh oh, it's getting glitchy again....who put in that extra "buy it Meade"? Strange.
Fine. Meanwhile, I suggest you stop flirting with Original Mike. Yeah he's a conservative. Yeah he probably voted for Trump. So yeah he's probably your type. But I have a feeling he's a very happily married man. You probably wouldn't want his wife going all Jolene on you.
Huh? Me flirt with Original Mike? Never!!!
"Eh, I don't buy it Meade. buy it Meade. It never got glitchy with me before, even when I changed psuedynyms several times in one day."
Meade, face it. She thinks you deleted her. And she thinks Trump and the Russians stole the election.
Everyone's free to form their own opinions.
"Uh oh, it's getting glitchy again....who put in that extra "buy it Meade"? Strange."
Oh for heaven's sake. Proofread! And then hit publish.
"Yeah he's a conservative."
More libertarian, actually.
OM,
No I don't think Meade deleted me. As for Trump and the Russians, we shall see.
I was kidding Meade.
So was I, sock.
"I was kidding Meade."
She is flirting with me!
Noooooo. How about a Spotted Cow though?
Hey, this is a SERIOUS thread, get back on topic!
Yep. Inga.
Original Mike,
I doubt that it's Inga. She was a remarkably stupid and pretentious ex-psych nurse.
Well, ... maybe it is her.
Wait -- lying is punished in this Executive Branch? Clapper, Holder and Lynch all taught me that wasn't the case.
The meat of the story:
https://pjmedia.com/michaelwalsh/2017/02/14/the-empire-strikes-back/
You drew the parallel between what Petraeus did and what Hillary did. Perhaps her electoral defeat last November was her conviction. Question now should be: has she done her time?
Well, since she has been indicted, let alone convicted, of absolutely nothing, there is no time to do.
My point was, that Patreaus, since he admitted to mishandling of classified information, would (if he were a O-5 or 6), at the very least, have had his security clearance yanked, would never get it back, and his career would be over (also, in the military, adultery will end your career).
If you want to argue that what Hillary did was worse, be my guest. But of course, the FBI decided not to prosecute her. You may contend that it was political, but seriously, Comey is no fan of Hillary.
There is breaking news tonight from the NYTs that Trump campaign aides had repeated contact with Russian Intel BEFORE the election. Intercepted communications again. Just how does Trump not know his aides were doing this? Things are moving faster now. Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, Carter Page and Mike Flynn implicated.
"I will have more flexibility after the election."
Progressives are pathetic people.
I gots a reset button and I is gonna push it.
douchebags.
North American Uranium for sale. Price: $100 millionish donation to Clinton Foundation.
We might have a more accurate number if the Clinton Foundation wasn't run like a money laundering operation for selling political influence.
What did Obama know and when did he know it?
There are going to be a lot of Obama people going to jail over the leak of SIGINT material to the press. I wonder if we can get one of them to rat o or Jarret out.
conspiracies involving Trump = political
conspiracies involving Meade and Blogger = psycho
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