[W]hile Latinos haven’t forgotten what Trump said about Mexican immigrants being criminals and rapists, and how he wants to deport 11 million people, they have begun to put such comments in the context of a candidate who, it often seems, has offended just about everyone in this country.
And interestingly enough, with most Puerto Ricans and Dominican-Americans solidly in the Democratic camp, and Cuban-Americans splitting their allegiance between Rubio and Cruz, it is in the Mexican-American community in the Southwest where you are most likely to find Latinos lining up with Trump.
They’re in red states like Texas and Arizona, and the battleground state of Colorado. There’s a lot they like about Trump, including his independence, plainspokenness, success in business, and disdain for political correctness. They see him as strong and resolute, and not having to cater to moneyed interests since he is self-funding his campaign. And either they don’t buy the idea that he is anti-Mexican, or they don’t care.
Let’s not forget that the relationship between U.S.-born Latinos and Latino immigrants, and even between foreign-born Latinos who have been naturalized and Latino immigrants, is complicated to say the least. There is an ambivalence there.
As a Mexican-American, I can tell you that many Mexican-Americans think that Mexican immigrants who come to the United States illegally are taking advantage....
February 13, 2016
"As a Mexican-American, I can tell you... don’t be surprised to hear more about a new meme: 'Latinos for Trump.'"
Writes Ruben Navarette Jr. in The Daily Beast: "No Joke: Trump Can Win Plenty of Latino."
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39 comments:
Mexicans who came here legally SHOULD feel like Mexicans who came here illegally are taking advantage. Because they are. And having a mass influx of cheap labor is not going to help legal immigrants.
If you take the racism argument out of the equation, and really it's only there because that is all the dems have, then dems should not be for amnesty or illegal immigration. Blacks and minorities are going to be hardest hit as per usual, if we let in 11 million people to compete for jobs. They then want to argue about income inequality and living wages.
When Walmart doesn't open stores because they can't or won't pay a minimum wage of 15 dollars, where do they think all these jobs are going to come from?
"Let’s not forget that the relationship between U.S.-born Latinos and Latino immigrants, and even between foreign-born Latinos who have been naturalized and Latino immigrants, is complicated to say the least."
He means between naturalized and illegal immigrants, right?
It's so hard to follow these people without their code book.
FWIW: Today's patron Saint of Latino activism is Cesar Chavez.
Who was staunchly against illegal immigration, because the new border-crossers were forcing the wages of his legal farm workers down.
supply and demand
strikes and scabs
I've been saying that forever. I'm not Hispanic but I live among many middle and working class Mexican-Americans and they tend to be no-nonsense people who appreciate plainspokenness and who have a low bullshit tolerance.
let's not forget Trump's Massive program he's proposed for Mexican jobs;
after all: that Wall isn't going to build itself
The conventional wisdom that hispanic citizens share an unshakable brotherhood with illegal immigrants has always empty. There is no evidence supporting it. And it's racist.
I've been wondering about this possibility. Arnold Schwarzenegger (a Republican!) won in the 3-way fight for Governor of California in a recall election with substantial latino support against someone named Cruz Bustamante. How did that happen? The conventional wisdom was that latinos really appreciate macho. And Arnold was more macho than Cruz or Grey Davis.
So Trump, being more macho than Bernie, and more macho than even Hillary!, might be able to pull in enough latinos to take the general election.
I agree that Trump has a real chance to be the first non-patisan candidate in a century. Watch this video, which was captured by cellphone as 1400 union workers were being told their jobs were going to Mexico.
This is a most interesting year. I am not yet a Trump supporter but he could not be worse than what we have had.
Men Working is a Patriarchy thing, with the women staying home and raising the children. That is is Mexican culture.
The Southwestern Mexicans welcomed the gringos lead by Fremont and Carson that brought in a government that allowed them to live that life without repression by a Catholic King's corrupt Empire run by the Catholic Church that wanting the work force to stay ignorant.
Trump is seen there as that good tradition. The Pope and the corrupt Mexican crime syndicate families called the Mexican government is seen as the bad tradition that needs to be kept out by the Wall of Trump.
I wouldn't be surprised that a few narcocorrido type ballads spring up about Trump.
They always celebrate those who flout convention. That's his appeal.
T
retail lawyer said...
The conventional wisdom was that latinos really appreciate macho. And Arnold was more macho than Cruz or Grey Davis.
Classic Bill Murray.
SNL “Quien Es Mas Macho?” sketch.
tim maguire said...The conventional wisdom that hispanic citizens share an unshakable brotherhood with illegal immigrants has always empty. There is no evidence supporting it. And it's racist.
HRC will trim that way too in the general. Just watch.
tim maguire said...The conventional wisdom that hispanic citizens share an unshakable brotherhood with illegal immigrants has always empty. There is no evidence supporting it. And it's racist.
Agreed.
Also empty is the conventional wisdom that democratic voters absolutely support illegal immigrants and illegal immigration. That's an elite position, not a universal position.
When Prop 187 passed in California with 60% of the vote, there was about a 30% yes vote in Latino districts. It would've restricted benefits for illegals. Of course, a federal court judge threw it out and Jerry Brown, then Attorney General, refused to appeal the verdict. Now, California, around Los Angeles, is about 50% illegal.
Tejanos have very little in common with Caribbean Hispanics. Their belief in democracy is based on patronage. More like Irish and Italian Catholic immigrants. I’ve lived in Mexican majority South Texas for ten years. My impression is that they reject victim ideology. In fact, they have a very high opinion of themselves and often pity the homely gringos with their pasty white skin. They get extremely impatient with their slow deliberations and silly impractical ideas. “Dale Gas!” (Step on it! Get going!) They value loyalty and will likely back Hillary, because she has delivered the goods last time around. She collected over a million dollars in 2007 in McAllen Texas, and in return, the last and largest “doctor owned hospital” in the US was exempted from draconian Obama Care rules. They would vote for Trump if they thought he could deliver something. The ground game is everything and as of now, Trump has none. I expect Hillary to go full patronage in 2016.
"The ground game is everything and as of now, Trump has none. I expect Hillary to go full patronage in 2016."
If Hillary had any political skills, I would agree. Nobody thought he had a ground game in New Hampshire.
We will find out. I supported Walker and then Carly. Now, I am just passive watching the spectacle.
I see that traditionalMoron (who is an Ubermensch in his own thoughts) is still very much traditionalMoron.
"Catholic King's corrupt Empire run by the Catholic Church that wanting the work force to stay ignorant. ... Fremont ..."
- Independence of Mexico: 1821
- USA robber war against Mexico: 1846-47
- not to mention Mexican anti-clericalism
- ignorant; the Catholic schools I went to would be surprised
But then traditionalMoron has never let a lack of knowledge stop him when he wants to spout his poison. How lefty of him.
Normally I skip over that moron's comments, though sometimes he does give comic relief (like when he mentioned the vast armies the British maintained in Canada to enslave his ancestors) but his toxic nonsense needs to be called out from time to time, and it is been a while since I did that. And he is quit giddy for the moment, Trump the Calvinist, what a joke.
How can people identify themselves as hyphenated-Americans?
You are either an immigrant in waiting, or you are an American citizen.
Why shoot yourself in the foot. Why rebuild the place you left, in a place you wanted to escape to.
Latinos just kind of irk-me that way. ¿Me entiendes?
Thank goodness some really hear what Trump is saying. Unlike the MSM, the politicos and his detractors who completely exaggerate it. Trump doesn't start with nuance, he works his way to it.
Phil D...The newest ritualized Saint who came from his Mission at Carmel was a diligent converter of natives into slave labor using as the excuse that the Priests were not killing them out right like the Army did over the hill at Monterey. But when thy ran away, the Church and Army hunted them down and killed them as a lesson in Spanish mercy.
You need to try getting a real education in real history at a school not including anywhere in its name "Loyola."
The Californios who surrendered California to six Americans at Petaluma in 1845 wanted to get free from Spanish Empire/Catholic Church treatment coming out out of Mexico City. They used the six Protestant the Gringos as their best chance.
This is all a very interesting and compelling commentary on Mexican-American culture. I have always enjoyed reading and listening to Reuben Navarette.
But where in any of this is any sort of case made for Trump?
I get it that at least some of the American citizens of Mexican heritage might not loathe Trump; but where is the reason that they should actually vote for him?
Retail lawyer said... [hush][hide comment]
I've been wondering about this possibility. Arnold Schwarzenegger (a Republican!) won in the 3-way fight for Governor of California in a recall election with substantial latino support against someone named Cruz Bustamante. How did that happen? The conventional wisdom was that latinos really appreciate macho. And Arnold was more macho than Cruz or Grey Davis.
Gov Arnold visited the facility where my neighbor works.She said EVERYbody made it a point to go to the building he was at. Even employees from surrounding businesses
Gov Brown visited the same facility. Very few people bothered to walk fifty yards to get a glimpse. My neighbor, a Filipino lady, dismissed him wit a "who cares" shrug.
If Arnold was native born, he would have been President.
The same as for the rest of us.
The "establishments" can't stand him.
"As a Mexican-American ..." wrote Ruben Navarette Jr.
"Navarrette was born May 11, 1967, in the farm country of the San Joaquin Valley. He attended public schools in Sanger, Calif., a town of deep roots where all four of his grandparents lived."
I gather the "deep roots" refers to a low water table, but for how many generations does "Mexican-American", rather than "American", apply? What's the point?
California in 1846 was run by Mexicans from Mexico City, not by the Spanish Empire. Nor was it run by the Catholic Church, as the California missions had lost their secular authority, their lands (from which they derived their revenue through rents) were all sequestered by the government and "reformed", and most had declined or been abandoned.
Whatever was being done to the Indians at the time was not at the behest of the Catholic clergy.
You can blame the Spanish Empire, maybe, for the tradition of centralized bureaucratic government and fear of free commerce. But these were just that, traditions, not policies. Spain made no policy in Mexico. It was intermittently at war with Mexico.
Arnold came in with high hopes, and started well, but as we know now he was paralyzed by being blackmailed as a result of his multiple affairs.
Fernandinande said......how many generations...
I'm only a second-generation, and my parents arrived on two different ships from two different countries in Europe.
The only time I refer to myself as a hyphenated-American is when I have my hand out. For example, last summer we went to several Polka festivals and I got three free pork sausages!
Speaking of Slavs, does anyone know where autoharp player Andreja lives? I wouldn't mind sharing a sausage with her! She gives new meaning to plump.
It's possible that physically deporting 11 million people is not the deal Trump thinks he's going to get. Probably incentives and attrition would suffice. Some embassy-based 'leaving american soil' technicality could also be arranged if necessary to save face.
"Latinos haven’t forgotten what Trump said about Mexican immigrants being criminals and rapists" is not how I remember it, but it certainly is how Latinos who took it that way remember it. I took the contextualized meaning as: the illegals have in their number too many low quality people (rapists, and others), and Mexico is happy to be rid of them, Mariel-boatlift-happy even.
America's demand for low-skill labor can be met without 'bonus' (in excess of legal immigration quotas) immigration, but the appetite for *below-minimum-wage* low-skill labor can only be met with illegal workers or documented H2-b etc (Shepherds paid a few hundred dollars per *month* in brokeback-mtn comfort).
Other than suspicions of La Raza non-integrating takeover, above average criminality, below average education and english literacy, we should view increased low-skill migrant-worker-visa and illegal immigration from Mexico in its effects on businesses (which ones are profitable vs which are impossible) in the same way we view adjustments to minimum wage, except that it's the legal residents who are kept from working (at those low wages). Undeniably if you suddenly cut off the spigot, the businesses using the lower-cost decent-quality labor will become less profitable or even have to shut down. Ulterior-motive democrat-friendly newspapers have been peddling that scare story for ages (where would our economy be without illegal immigrants!? etc). Yet all these problems are manageable. There's nothing wrong with gradual change, and we *should* work with businesspeople/farmers producing valuable output under the current regime to ensure most of their business is still feasible. I think Trump would (if Trump could trump wood).
Normally I skip over that moron's comments, though sometimes he does give comic relief (like when he mentioned the vast armies the British maintained in Canada to enslave his ancestors) but his toxic nonsense needs to be called out from time to time, and it is been a while since I did that. And he is quit giddy for the moment, Trump the Calvinist, what a joke.
I like Trump but some of his supporters, like Tradguy, ugh. Really make me question my Trump support.
It's not only Mexico that has a mass emigration (e.g. refugee crisis) problem, but they are conveniently located across a land bridge that facilitates passage.
That said, people need to drop the hyphens. You are Americans now. Your children or children's children will certainly be native Americans by jurisdiction and title.
Yep. In the old days, the illegals knew they were breaking the law and didn't really begrudge their deportation. Now, the new kids think they're entitled to stay. The entitlement pisses off the old timers.
The next recession will take care of most of the illegals just like 2008. Now the question becomes, will anyone do anything about keeping them out. Sorry though, California is a lost cause.
Mexicans might be comfortable with the idea of a caudillo? Who knew?
Our delightful hostess writes:
And interestingly enough, with most Puerto Ricans and Dominican-Americans solidly in the Democratic camp, and Cuban-Americans splitting their allegiance between Rubio and Cruz, it is in the Mexican-American community in the Southwest where you are most likely to find Latinos lining up with Trump.
Translation: Puerto Ricans and Dominicans are Democrats all while Cubans are Republicans and Mexicans in the Southwest are Republicans for Trump. Last time I checked, I would swear that Mexicans, if not called that, were for some reason related to the Aztecs(?) referred to as Chicanos. Latinos have a common language structure and live in Central and South America except for Brazil which uses the unadulterated Hispanic language of Spain.
On the other hand, all this group groping makes me tired. This is the U.S of A and we are supposed to think for ourselves here. And I cannot for the life of me figure out why anyone would vote for a demagogue like Trump.
Trump is against illegal immigration of Latinos. Those who vote for Trump are legal Latino citizens, like the rest of the voters. Lumping them together with illegals is the same as lumping all blacks with black criminals, and FDR's interning of Japanese Americans because they were Japanese. Very insulting.
California in 1846 was run by Mexicans from Mexico City, not by the Spanish Empire
Not really. Mexico claimed california when the Spanish left after the 1821 revolution, but the Californos never considered themselves Mexican, and almost immediately began resisting efforts by Mexico city to control the area. They revolted several times, and by 1846 were de facto an independent republic.
I gather the "deep roots" refers to a low water table, but for how many generations does "Mexican-American", rather than "American", apply? What's the point?
Identity politics and power.
Michael K:
Your link to Boing Boing inspired me to write a short story:
Sam: We have open position on our factory floor. But we disavow any promise that the factory will remain here perpetually. We do promise to give a year advance notice of any move.
Pat: I'll take it -- thanks.
[30 Years Later...]
Sam: We will be relocating the factory in one year.
Pat: Fuck You!
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