I don't know if I can pull off some good old-fashioned live-blogging. I see my son John is set up to live-blog, and I'm sure he'll do good work. I'll just update this post, making a numbered list if any insights strike me, and I invite you to participate in the comments. I'm not rooting for anyone, not playing any drinking games, not obsessed with Trump, not anything in particular... just open to the moment.
1. As they take their place behind the lectern, Jeb and Ben are jotting down notes and Trump, between them, is standing, swiveling, and displaying his game face. Carly's in royal blue, matching the large airplane that is stretched out behind them. Now, Jake Tapper is explaining the ground rules, introducing Hugh Hewitt and Dana Bash. Rubio wipes sweat from his brow.
2. Very short intros. Rand Paul is an eye surgeon who defends the Constitution, Huckabee says hi, Marco Rubio makes a joke about drinking water, Ted Cruz is a husband to his best friend, Ben Carson stresses the pediatric part of his career because he's here for the children, Trump wrote "The Art of the Deal" and made billions and billions of dollars, Jeb looks forward to talking about fixing Washington, Scott Walker emulates Ronald Reagan, Carly started out as a secretary, Kasich is ready to lift us up, and Christie is gonna give back what Obama stole from us.
3. Carly gets the first question and she won't answer it: Is she comfortable with Trump's finger on the nuclear button? She just calls him an "entertainer." Trump gets to respond: He's a businessman, and his temperament is "very good, very calm." Rand Paul got sideswiped by Trump, so he gets to respond, and he says that a guy that would sideswipe like that shouldn't have his finger on the button. Trump: "I never attacked him on his looks, and believe me, there's plenty of subject matter there."
4. Scott Walker breaks in without waiting to be asked a question or to get a turn triggered by an attack from someone else. It was Jeb who was asked a question, and Jeb triggered a Trump response opportunity. Walker just butted in.
5. Tapper wanted to ask another question, and Kasich started talking, so now he's been given an opportunity. Kasich is copying Walker, creating more chaos, and ironically, the point he wants to make is that the show is going to be too chaotic for the folks watching at home.
6. Christie offers to be our "vessel." Jeb is asked if he's "a puppet" for his donors. Jeb says Trump offered him money in exchange for getting gambling in Florida, and Trump said that didn't happen, because if it had, he would have gotten it. Jeb tries to break in, and Trump gives mock approval: "More energy tonight, I like it."
7. The candidates are all sweating like mad. How can they run the government if they can't even run a room in the Reagan Library?
8. "There's just something missing from our President. He doesn't have courage." Says Trump (talking about Syria).
9. Kasich breaks in ferociously. He's yelling and looking swollen and red. He's seething. This is interfering with my sense of him as everybody's dad.
10. Huckabee is complaining about the Supreme Court "redefining marriage" and championing Kim Davis. Jeb agrees with him, but in a much milder, mellower way.
11. Cruz calls Planned Parenthood "an ongoing criminal enterprise."
12. Tapper tells Carly Fiorina to respond to Trump's statement a few days ago that when he said "look at that face," he wasn't talking about her looks but her "persona." She's asked to talk about Trump's persona. She could have had a prepared remark for this, but she's thinking on her feet and uses a line that Trump just used against Jeb Bush: people heard very clearly what he said. She said that, then absolutely shuts up, and the crowd cheers. Trump smirks, then leans forward and says: "I think she's got a beautiful face and she's a beautiful woman." I think that was a prepared remark (and a lie) and Carly utterly refrains from giving an appreciative smile. She's got her game face.
13. Jeb is annoyed that Trump once said that Jeb may have a "soft spot" for Mexicans because his wife is Mexican. Trump babbles about what a lovely woman Jeb's wife is, but resists Jeb's demands for an apology. There's the wife out in the audience, come on, apologize to her. Trump won't do it. He's done nothing wrong, he says.
14. Speak English! Assimilate! Says Trump. Jeb says he is speaking English, but if someone asks him a question in Spanish, he's going to answer in Spanish. That's an opening for Rubio to break in and talk about his immigrant grandfather taught him that he was blessed to live in America... and he taught him that in Spanish. And he wants people who speak Spanish to hear from the President in Spanish, not from some translator on Spanish TV.
15. "We're the only ones dumb enough, stupid enough" to have birthright citizenship, says Trump. And he's not buying that it's in the Constitution.
16. Fiorina thinks the Constitution would have to be amended, which isn't likely. She concentrates on blaming the Democrats for not reforming immigration back when they had control of the Senate. They don't want to solve the problem. They want the issue to remain live.
17. Trump is turning beet red fighting with Carly over who's the better businessperson. He impugns her business career and she impugns him. Christie breaks in to say the person watching at home could "care less" about this back-and-forth about their careers. You 2 are both successful, what about the people out there who are not successful? Christie blusters.
18. "A track record" is important, Carly responds, without losing her cool at all. If we're going to talk about Christie's record in government, we should talk about the business record of the candidates who are coming to the race from business.
19. Aw, Rand Paul's reduced to playing with his pencils.
20. Hugh Hewitt wants to talk about who can win in the general election and who's going to attack Hillary Clinton? Kasich isn't ready to do that yet. But "at the end of the day..." (That was one of my drinking game cues, by the way. And Ben Carson has already proclaimed something "ridiculous!")
21. Trump effuses about Hugh Hewitt's declaring Trump "the best interview in America" and the camera shows Hewitt grinning responsively. What a bromance!
22. "Finally!" I say, and the crowd gives a big cheer, when Jeb says "Let me say one thing about my brother: He kept us safe."
23. Trump tried to high-five Carson and Carson received it in a way that moved it around into a regular handshake. Don't slap the neurosurgeon's gifted hands! The cause for Trump's move was Carson's statement that he'd advised George W. Bush in 2003 not to go to war in Iraq. (Trump had previously stated that he's the only one on the stage who opposed the Iraq war at the time.)
24. Do you think the questions are being evenly distributed? My sense of it is that they keep coming back to Jeb Bush.
25. Cruz thinks Bush I should have appointed Edith Jones instead of David Souter and Bush II should have appointed Michael Luttig instead of John Roberts to the Supreme Court. Jones and Luttig were both "rock-ribbed conservatives." The Presidents Bush both took the easier route and didn't want to fight for conservative Justices. Cruz's appointees will "not act like philosopher kings."
26. How long is this darned thing? I thought 2 hours. Then I thought 2 and a half. Now, I'm thinking it's going to go on for 3 hours. This is madness! (And I watched some of the other debate, the one with Santorum and... I forget who... Lindsey Graham... Pataki. One other. I have to ask Meade: Jindal.)
27. Oh, good: marijuana. I could use some marijuana at this point. The question goes to Paul, who thinks the laws hurt the poor and racial minorities. Bush confesses to smoking marijuana 40 years ago.
28. Paul is dominating for a long time on the marijuana question. He calls attention to Christie's willingness to enforce the federal criminal law against people in Colorado, who may think that their state has legalized marijuana, so — as Paul puts it — Christie doesn't believe in the 10th Amendment and "states' rights."
29. "Autism has become an epidemic," says Trump when he's asked whether he'll stop saying that vaccines are linked to autism. Carson is asked to comment and he says, "He's an okay doctor"... which is a quote of something Trump once said about Carson, so some pretty good humor from Carson, even if it's not enough pushback. Trump's point is that all he's saying is that vaccinations are too "bunched up" — too much is pumped all at once into a "beautiful little baby" and parents ought to have some discretion to space out the vaccines the way he did with his babies. Carson agrees with that point, and Trump reaches over to pat Carson on the elbow.
30. Uh-oh, lighthearted questions. First, what woman should be on the $10 bill. Huckabee says his own wife. Blechh. Cruz wants the $20 bill, not the $10 bill changed, and he'd put Rosa Parks (as would Rubio). Carson wants his own mother on the bill. Trump wants Ivanka or Rosa Parks. Jeb wants Margaret Thatcher. Walker wants Clara Barton! Carly wouldn't change the bills, and we should recognize that "women are not a special interest group." Kasich wants "Mother Theresa, a lady I had a chance to meet." Christie provoked laughs nationwide, I suspect, by saying "I think the Addams Family has been shorted in the currency business," causing a million people to quip "Morticia?!" (He meant Abigail Adams.)
31. What Secret Service nickname should you have? Carly Fiorina says "Secretariat," because, you know, she started out as a secretary, but I'm sure a million Americans just made a "horse-faced" joke. Bush wants to be "Ever Ready" — trying to establish that he's not low energy. Walker wants to be Harley (for his motorcycle). Trump says "Humble." Rubio wants to be "Gator."
32. What was up with that "Defeat Bloomberg" ad?
33. They're all boringly predicting what the world will be like after their presidency. The blabby question from Tapper was framed to invite them to connect that to Ronald Reagan... as if there hadn't been enough opportunities in all these many hours for the candidates to liken themselves to Ronald Reagan.
34. Who most improved his case? I asked the question out loud and immediately thought: Rand Paul. Meade answered: Rand Paul. But he's got a long way to go. Did anyone hurt his case significantly? I don't think so. It's more: Who needed to make some real progress here and didn't? Maybe Walker.
35. After the debate, in an interview, Trump says what he learned is that he can stand for 3 hours. Yeah, that was a severe challenge — having to stand there for 3 hours. It was hard enough to sit through!
36. John opines that Carly Fiorina won.
September 16, 2015
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234 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 234 of 234@Drago Well, longest serving Prime Minister in the 20th century and the only woman.
Identity politics only counts if you are on the left. Otherwise you're an Uncle Tom, Battered Wife, Closeted Gay, etc.
Blogger Guildofcannonballs said...
This poetry by Bobby Ritchie from Michigan, USA, represents the struggle to many today can Identify, I I Identify with, like those from around the world displaced:
Thus, this, as well:
Little lamb...
Smile!
When I am through with you,
There won't be anything left.
When I am through with you,
There won't be anything left.
When I am through with you,
There won't be anything left.
When I am thru with you.
Oh come back now where did you go?
No need to cower, don't know
If i can even turn your light on
Hello, Daisy, is that you
Hiding in the grass?
I've come to pluck you,
I'm gonna pluck you right in half.
When I am through with you,
There won't be anything left.
When I am through with you,
There won't be anything left.
When I am thru with you.
I come to the city alone
I packed up my life and my home
'cause I feel like a body at rest
Is a life in Hell
So unpack my bags, unpack my bags
Kiss her on the mouth, and she says,
"Smile little lamb"
When I am through with you,
There won't be anything left.
When I am through with you,
I'm on to all you have left.
When I am through with you,
When I am through with you,
There won't be anything left.
Carly had the best put down of Donald Trump. That's the metric the pundits used to score the debate. They all claim Carly won the debate......Carly is smart and incisive. She has a sharp face. The face works for her. It makes her look more incisive......Trump's insult actually did her a favor.
I liked the clip on planned parenthood. Even Christie answered well. Any supporter of PP should be painted as the inhuman monster they are. I don't even think the government should be banning abortion. You could make a case to me for banning it after 5 months and letting the states be more restrictive. But what planned parenthood does is abominable and the people who work there and support it are too.
I particularly liked Fiorina's discussion about national character. It is hard to be proud of a nation that funds people who dismember live fetus's for money.
^This is not my stance. It is the stance of others, turtles who've pulled their heads into their shells, all the way down, and turtles who've pulled their heads into their shells all the way up. The ha-ha about it is that I've learned something from all of those turtles, those all the way down and those all the way up, as well.
Grateful, I am, and thanks.
---
That said:
As none of you owe anything to me, nor do I owe anything to any of you.
Bless your hearts (if not other stuff).
Carly's Planned Parenthood remarks won the night. Ted Cruz could say the same thing and he would just be dismissed (by the MSM) as another loony white male (from Texas no less)
But they CANNOT ignore Carly. Her voice will be heard on this.
I can just see the housewives watching "The View" and saying, "What videos are they talking about?" "What do you mean they're selling baby parts!?" "Women's Health my ass, what about the baby's.....well I never thought I would ever vote for a Republican, but....."
Kasich signed on to the Iran deal. If he was even a concern he would be more done than he is now. What a joke of a response he made. Of course Iran is going to cheat on the deal. They already have. He is endorsing and capitulating to Obama's lawlessness. If there is one thing that is a deal breaker it is a republican allowing Obama to act the way he has with no push back on constitutional responsibilities.
Poor Jeb. He doesn't understand that Trump is winning on the bought and paid for argument. People are not going to hold it against Trump that he bought politicians. They understand that is how the game is played and they hate it. Bush thought he was going to get to be the big guy with all the money and he could buy the nomination like his brother or Romney did.
Not gonna work this time Jeb. And he is a guaranteed loser in the general no matter who the dem's nominate and everyone knows it. This is how we know the donor class wants hillary.
Trump and Fiorina are cleaning up at this point. This is a poor forum for Carson and he didn't seem to have the heart for it but he is obviously a decent human being. Those three will be left standing at the end.
Bush is done. Donor money is the only thing keeping his flopping corpse of a campaign going. I don't know why Kasich and Christie even joined the campaign. Huckawho? Rubio is never going to get past the fact he is a betrayer on immigration and will never be trusted again. One of them will hang on to represent the donor class but they will lose badly.
That leaves Cruz. My guess he is standing in there to get the possible Santorum bounce. If Jeb plays the donor class annihilator and starts knocking out the outsider candidates like Romney did last time, and they systematically smear the front runner until someone ends up the final remaining person and they can't destroy him in time he may have a chance. Cruz probably also hopes to end up being the VP to one of the 3 listed above.
Keep in mind folks...Secretariat won.
It wasn't the waterboarding that the judge found to be torture, it was forcing the prisoners to stand.
Impressions:
1) A lot of people are saying Carly won, but I found her style nervious and shaky. She did seem to at least have a good grasp of the issues though.
2) Carson seems like a nice guy, but it looked like he was falling asleep.
3) How any intelligent person could back Trump after his anti-vaxx nonsense is beyond me, but I never understood the appeal. He's all schoolyard taunts and vague generalities--he's going to solve our foreign policy problems because Putin will "respect him"? Isn't that pretty much what Hillary's strategy was with her "reset"?
4) Kasich seemed like a reasonable man who actually put thought into how he would get things done as president. Which is clearly not something the GOP wants this cycle.
5) Rubio looked strongest I thought, with Christie a close second.
6) Huckabee may have had a point worth making, but did not make it.
7) Bush had a lot of missed opportunities and does not seem comfortable in his role. I don't see him getting much traction.
8) Paul raised some good points which should be mainstream GOP positions but sadly are not. He has a low ceiling in this race.
9) 3 hours is insane for this sort of thing. It's hard enough to watch a movie that long.
10) I'd like to actually see moderators press the candidates when they give non-answers--and when the candidates persist, close it with "I'll take that as an I don't know." They could stop short of harassing them, but really shouldn't allow mindless spin.
Y'all see this article by wunderkind Nate Silver?: Hillary Clinton is stuck in a poll-deflating negative feedback loop.
If I'm reading it correctly, it strongly suggests that Obama's DOJ has directed its gullible house organ - the New York Times - to sink and/or disrupt Hillary's campaign. Hmm, some serious palace intrigue.
CNN made the “debate” all about Trump and Fiorina in a transparent attempt to stop Trump’s burgeoning female voter poll numbers. At this point he may be peeling them off from Hillary herself. The Democrats and their henchmen in the MSM realize that if Trump captures a sizeable female vote along with the blue-collar males that have been lost to the Democrats for years that Trump could win the general election handily. The idea was to get Trump to hurl some insults at Fiorina that would cause those silly, stupid supporters to desert the Trumpster. It was all about bringing Trump down. It didn’t work.
The unexpected(by the MSM) result: All that exposure insured that Trump and to a lesser extent, Fiorina, would “win” the “debate.” Unless a campaigning politician screws up badly, which neither Trump nor Fiorina did, exposure = higher poll numbers.
Fiorina is my personal first choice but I fear she is fated to be offered the VP slot on Trump’s ticket.
I also like Cruz but have to face the fact that he is just not very appealing outside of his supporters in Texas. His vocal delivery reminds me of LBJ’s pulpit-like intonation. Several pols are learning that success in a state does not necessarily translate into success in a nationwide campaign. He’ll make a great Attorney General for a Trump administration. Pencil Carson in as Surgeon General.
Ask not what woman you'd put on a $10 bill, ask what $10 bill you'd put on a woman.
- Iowahawk, the proper way to listen to PC debates.
I simply can't watch these debates. I tried, but ultimately turned the channel to watch my last place Red Sox. Thank heavens Althouse is here to provide her valuable comments. I trust her to be fair.
Fiorina The Most Serious seems determined to be the critic of everyone to show she should be in charge. Her schitik is only a winner among the weak minded who want their strong mother to come back and discipline them again. But it is the opposite of freedom and always traps people into whatever the manipulative superior force cooks up just for the fun of manipulating the silly men. Carly is a bitter persona.
MeanwhileTrump rolls merrily along calling out the inanity all around him. That certainly is rude, but his wit and good heart seem to give him a pass.
"My guess he is standing in there to get the possible Santorum bounce"
Huh?
I didn't see it all. I thought Carly was great, Rubio was great, Christie held his own. Seems like Walker hardly got a word in edgewise.
I like Jake Tapper, but I did feel there was a little too much "What do you think about what Trump said?" Although I guess he's the front runner and it bothers me mostly because I don't believe he's going to get many votes (Hello, President Howard Dean!!).
""Ronald Reagan Ronald Reagan Ronald Reagan it's 35 years later and he's the only politician our party feels it can be proud of or admire but somehow we're still relevant." "
This comes from the party which celebrates FDR, a man who died 70 years ago.
I think it's undeniable that Fiorina won. Doesn't mean she's going to be the nominee or that you have to like her, but she owned the stage last night and was the first candidate in the entire campaign cycle so far who has gotten the upper hand with Trump.
I'm amused at the thought of Jeb's campaign team this morning studying the tapes to see how they can coach him to show cojones like Carly's.
BTW, I've seen a couple of comments expressing disapproval that Fiorina showed a "pained" expression during the exchange about Trump's insult.
Personally I viewed that expression as her normal game face (not an expression of victimhood or pain.) She sets a tight expression to display toughness. I think she overdoes it, but perhaps over time she'll feel able to loosen up and lighten up.
Any of them would get my vote if nominated. That's a given, since I voted for John McCain. I was actually for Mitt Romney, since I thought his business experience might help get the country out it its malaise.
I still like John Kasich. It was his persistence, along with Penny, that got us close to a balanced budget in the late 90's. Plus, the Republicans can't win without Ohio and Florida. He also left Congress on his own choosing, which I admired.
I though Walker did a credible job, much better than my perceptions of him base on comments from the last debate (I didn't watch it).
As to Trump's vaccine statement, he isn't off base. I was surprised that Carson would agree that we may be giving too many vaccines in too short a period, since that goes against the medical guild.
"Vaccine critics argue that if children receive the entire panel of vaccines recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics, kids get 32 vaccinations (well, 17 vaccines, but some are given more than once to achieve adequate protection) over six years and are injected with 113 vaccine antigens. That's a lot of unnecessary chemicals to put into a child's body and three times as many as was recommended two decades ago. This is also more than what many European countries recommend."- Dr. Michael Roizen
Will it be Fiorina - Rubio or Rubio - Fiorina?
Tapper wanted a food fight. When candidates starting talking about their position on issues, Tapper cut them off and went back to the "someone called you a bad name...do you want to call them a bad name?" line of questioning. Very boring.
It only got interesting in the last hour. Funny thing, Trump didn't talk too much after Carly skewered him with his own words.
Rand Paul didn't help himself with primary voters. Republicans are not isolationists and would rather fight the terrorist over there and over here.
@Browndog
Please enlighten me as to the differences. Show us your brilliance.
Rhythm and Balls said...
If only Thatcher were as popular in the UK as she is in the RNC.
9/16/15, 11:19 PM
What makes you think she wasn't / isn't?
PBandJ_LeDouanier said...
Discussing her blue dress is a lot more tasteful than the last time cons were focused on a blue dress.
9/16/15, 11:24 PM
Actually, the only reason there was any focus on that dress is because it was material proof that the President lied to the entire country but other than that, you are correct.
I hushed R&B. Even for his barometer, it was a bad night.
EMD said...
I hushed R&B. Even for his barometer, it was a bad night.
9/17/15, 3:24 PM
Can you tell me how? I used to be able to but PC recently crashed and I lost whatever browser plugin allowed that. Thanks.
I did not watch the debate (missed it) but if it is true that one of the questions was "What would you want your secret service handle to be", someone, ANYONE should have responded with "What the hell are you wasting our time and America's time with this BS! Get serious! We have real issues to discuss and you ask a crap question like that?"
How is it possible that folks can earnestly suggest that emotional sternness is the reason Carly's face doesn't move?
I'd have thought that folks in con circles would have been exposed to the way that some cons spoke about Pelosi's immobile face. Maybe if Graham was in the big debate, he could have cleared this up for y'all.
Big Mike said...
"Will it be Fiorina - Rubio or Rubio - Fiorina?"
If Rubio is on the ticket the GOP will lose. The base will not forget his immigration betrayal and it will be Romney/McCain all over again. You can't do a 180 and cuddle up with Schumer to get amnesty through less than 2 years after promising to stop amnesty to get elected. The base is angry specifically about electing Republicans and getting democrat-lite while they think we aren't looking.
Rubio is a deal breaker.
"His mother." Perfect answer.
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