"... but that's just my own personal belief. I think Jesus would encourage any love affair if it was honest and sincere and was not damaging to anyone else, and I don't see that gay marriage damages anyone else."
Said Jimmy Carter, who didn't bring up the subject. He was asked the question what would Jesus think of same-sex marriage.
You can talk about same-sex marriage. What I find surprising is Carter's idea that Jesus would encourage any love affair if it was honest and sincere and was not damaging to anyone else. That's not limited to marriage or even to lifelong loyal partnership. Carter's got Jesus cheerleading straightforward fornication! What's more honest and sincere than I just want to fuck you?
Oh, Jimmy! Will the lust in your heart never end?
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১১৭টি মন্তব্য:
Schopenhauer once said that the created create the Creator. In other words, God created man in his image, and Jimmy Carter is returning the favor.
Wherever you go, there you are, at least if you're Jimmy Carter.
However one feels about gay marriage, I think most folks can agree that Carter is dumber than dogshit.
I do not think that a "love affair" means just fornicating.
I am dead certain that two centuries ago, Jimmy Carter's ancestors believed, with all their heart and soul, that Jesus would have approved of slavery.
#lightweight religion
Jesus..Ann, you clearly are trolling with that interpretation vs what he obviously meant regarding affair. More interesting was Lamont's cutting Jimmy off from his abortion response to jam it back to gay marriage. Surprised he didn't follow ask our expert on if he thought Jesus might have been gay.
What a strange thing it is for people to believe that are human beings, as separate from both men and women as men and women are separate from each other, called "gay".
What would Jesus screw?
It's the gay mafia. They run the public space for some reason.
Probably lots of Germans thought the Nazis were laughable too in the 30s.
Don't let his Father know.
I think Jimmy Carter was talking about Jesus (Hey-Zeus) an illegal Mexican who recently raped several women while crossing the border.
Jesus, the Constitution, and the Geneva Conventions all say the same thing when it comes to liberals. They support whatever liberals think is good, regardless of the text. They condemn everything liberals believe is bad, regardless of the text.
WHO KNEW? The story of Soddom and Gomorrah was really just a how-to manual.
This means less than nothing.
Jimmy Carter is a vain ninety (90!) year old man who will answer any question put to him just to still feel relevant. If he knew that Google autocompletes "Jimmy" with "Johns" rather than "Carter" it would probably irritate him to no end.
I'm in the process of dealing with a now 87 year old mother. I'm tellin' ya, no matter how smart the oldster was in his/her youth, you start getting that up in years, and you just start getting strange in the head. That strangeness is only amplified by the fact the pre-frontal cortext, which is the part of the brain that controls inhibition, is often one of the first parts of the brain to go.
That's why the granny who says what she thinks & tells people off is such a cliche'. It's based on a commonly occurring cerebral pathology .
Eric wrote:
" . . an illegal Mexican who recently raped several women while crossing the border."
While crossing the border? Man, that takes . . . determination.
I wonder what it would take for Althouse to sour on gay rights.
I'd have thought business-busting fines on bakers would have done it, but apparently not.
Should it be legal to advertise that you're in the traditional marriage wedding business? A question for the other side.
Blogger Real American said...
WHO KNEW? The story of Soddom and Gomorrah was really just a how-to manual.
You'd be surprised how many "Christians" let alone non-Christians, don't realize God and Christ are the same person.
As Dan McLaughlin put it on twitter,
"If only there was a book somewhere that had written down the stuff Jesus said".
"I don't have any verse in scripture."
Well, of course he doesn't, the little darling.
This man has spent a lifetime reading scriptures. Of course he doesn't have a verse in scripture. Because there is nothing in scripture that supports the equivalence of SS relationships to marriage - and a great deal that condemns it.
This does not excuse pridefulness or hypocrisy. But an honest reading of scripture simply does not allow for a Biblical case for same-sex marriage. I've read all of the cases, and they are all utter failures of wishful thinking, ignorance or selective reading, if not outright intellectual dishonesty.
There may be a civil liberties/constitutional case for it, but it is not scriptural.
Man, that takes . . . determination.
And balls.
Jimmy wants to hang out with the cool kids. At his age this is just embarrassing. Then again he was an embarrassment for, what, at least 50 years now. His consistency is impressive. Most people this hopeless don't live this long.
For the record, the thought that Jesus was a libertarian anything is ridiculous, in case I haven't made that clear already.
Remember how willfully blind Carter is when he wants to be. He was a lifelong Democrat in the South. The party he came of age into and supported unwaveringly throughout his life that represented and supported segregation, Jim Crow, opposition to anti-lynching legislation, George Wallace (governor of Alabama well into his Administration and beyond), Lester Maddox, Richard Russell and the Klan.
Somehow that shit was never a deal-killer for him.
Jesus was said to be a good Jew. Therefore:
Lev. 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is detestable."
Lev. 20:13 "And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed a detestable act: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
If he thought different, there is no record of his rejection of the Bible.
My personal opinion is, that Billy Carter was the normal one.
Jesus was a first century Orthodox Jew. Carter is an idiot.
But we already knew that.
Carter's got Jesus cheerleading straightforward fornication!
Why? Because of his awkward use of the word "affair"?
Or because conservatives have a clumsy time with romantic love?
I swear, you guys are messed up. No person with a healthy sex life ever thinks of using words like "fornication". No matter how post-menopausal she is.
@R&B,
No person with a healthy sex life ever thinks of using words like "fornication".
You never, ever, read anything theological from the great religious traditions, do you? 'Cause, it's a real common word for real common sin.
And not just straightforward fornication. Through the backdoor too.
With all due respect, our host could have passed up that "what's more honest and sincere" line. She did not need to go there. But what the heck, maybe she's trying to be "edgy".
"I don't see that gay marriage damages anyone else.
Excessive sexual promiscuity requires one to separate their spiritual and emotional being from their physical being.
It has the effect of deadening the heart and making the senses less perceptive.
Dead hearts have less compassion and empathy, and are not easily roused by, for example, the difficult plight of others, or by injustice.
Dead hearts also show and feel less mercy.
Society becomes prone to a false morality - a morality based on prideful struggles between groups, classes, races, and people, and who is "in" or "out", who is one of us and who is not.
Society becomes less peaceful, more brutish, less cooperative and unified, more vindictive, and, yes, more violent and dangerous.
The poor and the weak of society suffer most.
I cite to one example: Since the sexual revolution and the supposed unleashing of all the love, have the poor fared better in the U.S.? The supporting evidence is irrefutable: the children from fatherless homes are poorer, less educated, and have more problems with drugs, alcohol, and their own families.
But by all means, let's celebrate all the love.
And destroy anyone who disagrees with us, and allow the needy, and the naked, and the sick and the afflicted to pass by us, and we notice them not.
These are all laughably stupid comments from virtually every mainstream Democrat. As of early 2012, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton opposed homosexual marriage.
And Jimmy Carter is talking now about what the Bible says about the subject?
The intellectual dishonesty in all of this -- the dishonest lawyering by the SCOTUS majority, the dishonest politicking by Democrats -- is nauseating.
New testament.
Romans 1:26-28 "24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind ...."
Maybe I am misreading something.
You'd be surprised how many "Christians" let alone non-Christians, don't realize God and Christ are the same person.
And how many think the New Testament replaced the Old, when the latter was expressly incorporated in the former by reference?
Quayle wrote:
"I don't see that gay marriage damages anyone else."
Excessive sexual promiscuity requires one to separate their spiritual and emotional being from their physical being.
-----
Yeah..must be why they want marriage....
You never, ever, read anything theological from the great religious traditions, do you?
Not in any way that presumes they're meant to be taken seriously thousands of years later.
'Cause, it's a real common word for real common sin.
That's uncommonly if ever used.
Even the word "sin" isn't used all that much in polite society. Seriously, your acquaintances go around talking even about "sin" in a casual way?
Evangelicals and theological conservatives are a minority of the country, guy. They're a minority of most countries. And they generally only have significant power in countries where individual freedom matters less than how you're supposed to regularly appeal to old writings for judging others.
"That strangeness is only amplified by the fact the pre-frontal cortext, which is the part of the brain that controls inhibition, is often one of the first parts of the brain to go."
Indeed.
I don't expect to be alive when I'm ninety, let alone have all my faculties the way President Carter still does. Whatever else you may think about it, he's in amazing form for a nonogerian.
"No person with a healthy sex life ever thinks of using words like "fornication"."
You never, ever, read anything theological from the great religious traditions, do you?
Hey. Is Kama Sutra a great religious tradition? Tantra?
I know of some great instructional websites that can provide you a nice demonstration video on ways to engage these spiritual concepts.
With real-life people. Recently.
Maybe even in real time.
But if you think putting something to stone or parchment is what makes things important, there's a version for that, too.
More new testament. 1Cor 6:9-11
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."
Note that homosexuality is the not the only sin referenced. More importantly, note we sinners can be washed clean and sanctified.
Also, who was the great religious, er, "non-fornicator" who advocated the missionary position?
Did he give instructions on what that meant?
I mean, not everyone might have presumed to know what sexual positions missionaries advocate.
Can you imagine someone becoming turned-on by what a missionary might explain? That would be sexually blasphemous.
Whatever sexual blasphemy is.
"Should it be legal to advertise that you're in the traditional marriage wedding business? A question for the other side."
The bourbon industry, "straight Kentucky bourbon" is what I remember my bottle said, is gaining share in a huge, increasing industry.
90+ % of the legal bourbon in the world is made in Kentucky, and a large chunk (97%?) says "straight" somewhere on the bottle.
The answer is lawyers need to stop bottom feeding and all become rich.
It's surprising y'all ain't done did notice this 'fore, but if tax any "straight" bourbon at 50% plus more than "unstraight" bourbon whilst monopolizing the "unstraight" bourbon producers, you become the only game in town.
The top dog. You do what you want then.
Cui Bono of U2 can lead the march against the "straight" hate until we get the whole damn market for ourselves.
Don't you see?
Also, related, anyone who doesn't demand Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton appoint new Men and Women and Trans to head Google, Facebook, Twitter, Microsoft et al must like racist Leftists.
They must love racist Leftist and the mechanisms those racists use; otherwise why be afraid of a little diversity in their ranks?
Loving the racism is the only answer.
NFL...........................
You think you have done some things, made some moves?
You disgust me, NFL, using (mostly) Black Men as new-age dog-fighters enduring (short) life-long repercussions for Americans racist greed.
END THE NFL if you aren't racist.
Wikipedia says:
It is commonly believed that the term missionary position arose in connection to Christian missionaries, who supposedly taught that the position was the only proper way to engage in sexual intercourse. However, the term probably originated from Alfred Kinsey's Sexual Behavior in the Human Male through a confluence of misunderstandings and misinterpretations of historical documents.[5][6] Tuscans refer to the position as the Angelic position while some Arabic-speaking groups call it the manner of serpents.[7]
So it was sexual adventurer Kinsey who came up with the term. My, my.
So those "non-fornicating" missionaries just spent a lot of time advocating it and describing its supposed virtues, rather than naming it. I guess that clears things up.
I always think that people who who advocate minute details regarding my sex life, upon threat of pain of death and even post-mortem punishment for any deviation from it, are perfectly sane, healthy and moral.
Hmmmm. What does the New Testament say?
Romans 1:26–27, 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, and 1 Timothy 1:9–10
Old Testimate?
Genesis 19:1–13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13
So if homosexuality was an abomination and a grave sin, then by inference so was homosexual marriage.
I think that people who spend a lot of time thinking about how missionaries have sex have a screw loose.
"Evangelicals and theological conservatives are a minority of the country, guy. They're a minority of most countries"
So are gays. Does this invalidate their thoughts and beliefs?
https://philosophynow.org/issues/58/Tractatus_71_Translation_and_Silence
I wonder what Jesus thinks about those with 'lust in their heart' these days...
My favorite "keep the gays away" suggestion was this: announce that your bakery will serve anyone, but that 5% of all profits are donated to Focus on the Family (or other similar group).
But Carter? Well, if you are a Christian and support gay marriage, not in a "they have the legal right" sort of way, but, say, as part of a denomination which performs such ceremonies in the church, then you pretty much have to believe as he does, right?
Guildof....,
I had a lot of trouble following your 6:31 comment, but I believe things like what can be called "bourbon" or "straight" are highly regulated. For example, there's a reason Jack Daniels is styled Tennessee Whiskey rather than Bourbon. I believe your overwhelming percentages are more definitional than observational.
When I was in school, my philosophy professor said something I'll never forget: "Throughout history mankind has always altered what was believed to be true to agree with what is known to be true." His point is that, over time, any conflict between scientific knowledge and religious belief will always be resolved in science's favor. This is true despite the many examples of what science taught turning out to be wrong.
We all "know" that it is unhealthy to put too many constraints on sexual gratification; therefore, Jesus must approve of any open and honest sexual relationship that doesn't hurt anyone. This is just the latest example of my teacher's "law" in action.
@YoungHegelian re: R&B: “Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you." Matt 7:6 (ESV)
@R&B,
Evangelicals and theological conservatives are a minority of the country, guy. They're a minority of most countries.
Yes, but many of those countries are filled with non-Christians who have even less truck with fornication, especially gay fornication, than your evil evangelicals do.
Hey. Is Kama Sutra a great religious tradition? Tantra?
Those folks having sex in the Kama Sutra are either a man & his wife or a nobleman & his concubines. In that culture, a woman who had had sex outside of either of those relationships a) was a whore or b) had just irrevocably destroyed her bride-price. Traditional cultures take bridal purity very seriously, and Moghul India sure as hell did.
Yes, but many of those countries are filled with non-Christians who have even less truck with fornication, especially gay fornication, than your evil evangelicals do.
So you and Christians of your sort are like less zealous forms of Muslim, then?
"Hey. Is Kama Sutra a great religious tradition? Tantra?"
Those folks having sex in the Kama Sutra are either a man & his wife or a nobleman & his concubines. In that culture, a woman who had had sex outside of either of those relationships a) was a whore or b) had just irrevocably destroyed her bride-price. Traditional cultures take bridal purity very seriously, and Moghul India sure as hell did.
I'll keep that in mind, the next Kama Sutra statue I see depicting acts of group sex, of how much more "religious" they are than modern Christianity.
I could just as easily say that about the call to excommunication and ridicule that you subject, and encourage everyone here to subject me to, hombresexual.
Jimmy Carter abandoned the biblically correct for the politically correct long ago - maybe when he was frightened by the killer rabbit.
Science has only been around since the 17th century, DKWalser.
So, Jimmy, would he approve of incestual marriage? Or polygamy? Or harems? How about bigamy? Underage marriages? Marriages to dogs or dolls? If said relationships were sincere and not damaging to anyone else.
Second point, does that mean htat society must make them legal?
Science has only been around since the 17th century, DKWalser.
True enough. What we think of as science has only been around for a few centuries. Thank you for the pedantic point. However, one of my professor's examples was from the ancient Greek's "knowledge" of the substance of matter. We now know that what the Greeks "knew to be true" was wrong. Nevertheless, they adapted their religious beliefs to be consistent with their false understanding of the physical world.
Ever think the dumber of the two Carter brothers got himself elected president? I do, all of the time.
Well, not all of the time. Like everyone else who is normal, I spend a considerable amount of time imagining how missionaries have sex. So fecund! They must be doing something right. Tab A in slot B and so forth.
Jesus also approved of adultery or open relationships and elective abortion (i.e. indiscriminate killing). Jesus was very progressive for his time. He probably consumed psychotropic drugs -- but not smack -- to realize visions and perform his magic, too.
Not only is the question, "does that mean society must make them legal," but "In your view, is society OBLIGATED to grant tax subsidies to those pursuing all those relationships, at the expense of singles, traditionally-married couples and those raising children, who must make up the difference?
Not pedantic at all, DKWalser. It is an important point. For years philosophers believed that reason alone could lead you to truth. Evidence from the senses can be deceptive. I can't remember right now who taught that, but I am sure it was a Greek. Aristotle, maybe?
I suspect that what your prof meant was that people align their beliefs to what they observe to be true, not known to be true. Philosophers generally don't use the phrase "known to be true" in a throw-away manner.
"Jesus must approve of any open and honest sexual relationship that doesn't hurt anyone."
Well that limits sexual relationships to a husband and wife in a monogamous situation, at least according to the Word. The "if it feels good do it ..... along as long as no one get hurt." may work for a while. But in the long run, someone gets hurts. Usually one of the two.
R&B (7:18): "I could just as easily say that about ...."
You could, but like most of your comments about the Bible and religion, particularly Christianity, it would be pure codswollop.
Excommunicate you from what? Alas, membership in the group to which you belong is eternal.
"Science has only been around since the 17th century, DKWalser."
That would be news to Eratosthenes
He is best known for being the first person to calculate the circumference of the Earth, which he did by applying a measuring system using stadia, a standard unit of measure during that time period. His calculation was remarkably accurate. He was also the first to calculate the tilt of the Earth's axis (again with remarkable accuracy). Additionally, he may have accurately calculated the distance from the Earth to the Sun and invented the leap day.[4] He created the first map of the world incorporating parallels and meridians, based on the available geographical knowledge of the era.
With Jimmy Carter and lust this is all that matters.
I am Laslo.
Even the word "sin" isn't used all that much in polite society
You say that like it is a good thing.
Guys, there is no point in quoting Testament to Althouse. She believes you need to ignore the plain meaning of the words and seek transcendence instead.
Jesus would never make anyone feel bad about themselves, so of course he would support gay marriage.
Evangelicals and theological conservatives are a minority of the country, guy. They're a minority of most countries.
You say this like it is a good thing too.
R&B: "So you and Christians of your sort are like less zealous forms of Muslim, then?"
It seems for western Christians to garner the public support from western leftists that the islamists currently receive those Christians need to start beheading, throwing off of roofs, hanging or stoning to death homosexuals. Using children as human shields would clearly help gain some western lefty love as well.
Well, that just seems like too steep a price to pay for lefty support.
But that's just me. And the rest of the Christians.
The islamists? Not so much.
Plus, the Christians like Western Civ. The left? Well, not so much...
File this under "you're not helping."
Simply put: "Go, and sin no more." Very specific. -CP
"Well, if tenderness leads to the gas chamber, maybe rudeness leads to man's perfection."
When I listen t o Mozart.
Oh!
Idiocy unbridled:
Mozart (child) is Jobs ( _
Science nor music is neither bad nor good.
Mozart and Jobs are both and neither.
Sorry, Jimmy. Tim Rice already covered this.
Given the biological prevalence of human homosexuality I'd have to guess that Jesus came upon the public stoning of a gay sometime in his 33 years.
The Gospel would suggest he didn't intervene. No?
I don't believe that Jesus is a domesticated animal.
Rare around here, and I don't guess why being in that locale, I will in this webspace say Clarence Thomas is the greatest American I watch day in and out.
Posts from this host about decency don't matter, either way, like the Trailer Park Boys movie om Swearnet "people want spectible" and Althouse the gracious knows straight-up beauty Mozart is out there free and terriffcaly knewwwly frabberlicioussly Dociously dumb.
In popular culture: "[Whatever sounds soothing and friendly.]" - Jesus
Modern, reconstructed Jesus thinks that you doing whatever you really want to do is awesome. "Everything is awesome!" Love, Jesus. The only thing modern, reconstructed Jesus doesn't like is acting like there exists a thing called sin. Modern, reconstructed Jesus didn't obtain forgiveness for the sins of mankind, he made sin disappear completely in the here and now. "Nothing is sinful except thinking things are sinful. 'Cause yo," here he indicates himself, "So don't harsh the mellow, man." Modern, reconstructed Jesus is so chill.
In every pizza parlor in America, there is a price listing on the menu for anchovy pizza. Despite this, I have never ordered nor have I ever known anyone to order anchovy pizza. I wonder what would be views of Jesus on anchovy pizza. I could give these reasons for Jesus favoring anchovies: Jesus was a fisherman and not a suasage maker. He didn't distribute bread and pepperoni at the Sermon on the Mount. Beyond that, anchovies are healthier than pepperonis, even the free range ones. Anchovies were the original topping used in Italy and so have a kind of Old Testament tradition to give them sanction........On the other hand, there can be no doubt that suasage and pepperoni taste better than anchovies on pizza. (Ok, I'm speculating here. As noted, I've never actually eaten an anchovy pizza.).....So what's a person of conscience to do. I'm pretty sure Jesus would order anchovy pizza, and He. Would want you to do the same. But for all that, God's grace is abundant and even those who order the blasphemous hotdog crust may find their way to His Kingdom.
Modern, reconstructed Jesus wants to eat Captain Crunch with you. He wants you to go with him to smoke out under the pier where you can laugh together again about that old lady outside of Safeway that time who said that crazy thing to Jake. He wants to watch Pineapple Express with you, eat Cheetos, and crash on your couch.
Look, it's just incorrect to ask or say Jesus "would" say something. Either he said it during his 30 or so years on earth, or he didn't. As far as I can tell, he is not recorded to have said anything about gay marriage, and it's hard to imagine that issue even coming up in Palestine in the first half of the First Century.
What people like Carter and several commenters here really mean is that the Risen Christ, sitting at the right hand of God, agrees with them. This is the ultimate appeal to authority, and there's really no basis to support it. If the Risen Christ were capable of error (which He isn't), he would at least have to reconsider his position if he heard that Jimmy Carter had the same opinion.
People keep quoting passages from the Old and New Testaments that they say resolve the issue, but no one on this thread has quoted the OT in Hebrew or the NT in Greek. They quote translations into English, which reflect an agenda. The NRSV translation, which I generally use, doesn't purport to resolve the issues surrounding homosexuality.
I believe that Jesus had a larger agenda than what to do about gays. I also believe he generally didn't look for easy answers. When ever I find myself thinking that Jesus agreed with ME, I try to think again.
As far as I can tell, he is not recorded to have said anything about gay marriage, and it's hard to imagine that issue even coming up in Palestine in the first half of the First Century.
I don't know why it would be difficult for anyone to discern His position. God was quite clear on homosexuality in both the Old and New Testament. Christ is God.
From all the things said by Christ, He was very clear about marriage being between a man and a woman. That God created them male and female to leave their parents and become one flesh (Have children). That sex outside of marriage was sinful.
For Christ, it would never be "about gays". It was about loving the Lord your God. And to do that, one had to take up their cross and follow Him. For gays, their cross is burning with a lust for other men.
Each of us has our own sin. And each of us chooses just as Adam and Eve chose. We can deny ourselves and follow Him, or we can choose to follow after our own understanding and do what we believe is right in spite of what He has instructed us to do because of our pride.
Paul (the commenter) said: "So if homosexuality was an abomination and a grave sin, then by inference so was homosexual marriage."
Not so fast. Fornication -- sexual relations outside of the sanctity of marriage -- was the abomination, whether same-sex or opposite sex. Copulating within the sanctity of marriage has the Good Lord's blessing. At least that's how I read the tea leaves.
Yikes, Freeman, you're killin' it here. You've been hiding your light under a bushel.
Scripture had nothing to say about Internet Pornography or Interstate Wine Sales, either.
"I don't have any verse in scripture...
"And [Jesus] answered and said to [the Pharisees], "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.". Matthew 19:4-6
Yes, Jesus would forgive sinners today quite easily. Jimmy somehow got that one right.
But Jesus would not forgive good little Christians who are dedicated to helping Hamas with diplomatic tricks that aid and abet Jew extermination efforts.
Christ may not have specifically referenced gay marriage, but he did reference "porneia". From Matthew 15:
18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.
"Porneia" refers to a variety of things, but the first two definitions are, "To prostitute one's body to the lust of another" and "to give oneself to unlawful sexual intercourse; to commit fornication".
When you combine this with the OT references to homosexuality, the fact that Christ and God are one, and the fact that Christ was a Rabbi ... well, I think it's pretty hard to make the case that Christ is somehow "for same sex marriage".
Carter is clearly sucking up to popular Democratic opinion in order to stay relevant and to continue selling books. It's also quite clear that Jimmy Carter, the Sunday School teacher, is gone forever.
Michael K wrote:
"That would be news to Eratosthenes"
Well, at least Eratosthenes did his own observations! But it wasn't science the way we think of it -- observe, hypothesize, experiment, revise hypothesis, repeat. Eratosthenes tried to fit his observations into geometry, and it worked for him, mostly. But it went nowhere. He had no system of thought that would work on objects that were not able to be reduced to ratios and right triangles.
Reason alone is enough to lead you to believe the earth is a sphere. Geometry will show that lunar eclipses occur as a result of the Moon moving through the Earth's shadow. Only a sphere has a shadow of the same shape when it it is rotated arbitrarily. If you diagram the position of the Earth, Moon, and Sun during a lunar eclipse it is clear that regardless of the position of the local observer, the Earth's shadow on the moon will be a section of a circle. Voilez'! The Earth is a sphere.
I think the 650,000 Americans who have died of AIDS would take exception to the notion than anal intercourse is not damaging to anyone.
It's sad watching a 90-year old man try to project his desires onto his deity. I think he knows at some level that even if he could snip out a verse that supports what he's saying, it would be quite out of context.
Carter may be forgetting the reason Jesus was sent in the first place, which was to save. To be saved, one must have something to be saved from, which since progressives have erased all the old sins, Jesus apparently came to deliver women from trigger warnings, Republicans, and reality. It's not clear what the men are saved from, but whatever it is will have to pass a disparate impact test.
The Godfather said: "People keep quoting passages from the Old and New Testaments that they say resolve the issue, but no one on this thread has quoted the OT in Hebrew or the NT in Greek. They quote translations into English, which reflect an agenda."
Really? That is one strange assertion.
See, Jimmy. Jesus doesn't believe in you. In fact. Jesus thinks you're a dick. Our lord and savior would like to give you a smack in the head.
Can I get an Amen!
@Paul Ciotti
HIV, like any STD, is cause by multiple partners.
Jesus would endorse lots of different relationships, but I'm lead to the belief he would not endorse specific acts as a way to express love.
Public policy though marriage isn't about love. Nothing on my marriage license or in the statutes had anything about love in them.
I believe Jesus, like myself, is supremely uninterested in the joys, sorrows, challenges and celebrations of the less than three per cent of people who define themselves by what they do with their genitals.
yeah?, well read Leviticus or Deuteronomy.
Mr Carter is old enough that he'll get to talk it over with Jesus personally pretty soon.
I feel bad for Carter. You knew he was on the wrong track with his anti-Israel venting - and this was before he hit senility. The media keeps searching him out for an off-the-wall response. He always obliges.
I don't think Jesus would have wanted people running around using him to back their own personal and policy preferences. He would probably have found such tactics cheap and tawdry. Only his ability to forgive would have prevented him from slapping Jimmy Carter with one of his sandals.
If anything this shows Carters willingness to project his views onto a fantasy version of Jesus and wholly ignore the Gospel. Christ was actually very strict on marriage, more so than Moses. He condemns divorce and remarriage as adultery and recalls the joining of man and woman in Genesis as it's definition. It's not vague or unclear, rather it's simply not a modern popular view so it's ignored or worse distorted.
I have more respect for the honest atheist who simply rejects the teaching outright than those who would warp Christ to fit their own views. Of course God also says "Come to me hot or cold ..." Rev 3:16, condemning the lukewarm.
I'm just gonna cut and paste what tim in vermont said...
Jesus, the Constitution, and the Geneva Conventions all say the same thing when it comes to liberals. They support whatever liberals think is good, regardless of the text. They condemn everything liberals believe is bad, regardless of the text.
Yep.
Tim and Mike are right - nothing left to say
"That's why the granny who says what she thinks & tells people off is such a cliche'. It's based on a commonly occurring cerebral pathology."
In high school, was at a friend's house with his grandmother sitting with us. Down the stairs comes my friend's older sister, very hot, freshly showered and ready to go out.
Granny looks up at her and says in a loud voice, "Did you wash your pussy?"
We never heard the answer because we were laughing too hard.
I don't have any verse to quote, but I believe...it's my personal belief that Jesus would roll his eyes and say "whatEVER"
Yes, his theology is not plausible, but hey. He's a very old man. He's trying to say that he thinks this is the way it should be in our society, for moral reasons.
He's very, very old. He was born in 1924; he'll turn 91 this year. I really don't like kicking around the extremely elderly. Can't you just give him credit for having evolved and leave the old guy alone??
Like the SC, Jimmy just opened the door to incestuous and polygamous relationships. While that's not very Baptist and not very Christian, you have to concede it's tolerant.
The only people Jimmy still can't be tolerant about are Jews, as far as I can see. So he's still got some evolving to do.
Jesus never had to win the Galilean primary.
I can't believe Jimmy didn't remember John 8:2-11. Some old, white guys had grabbed a young woman caught in adultery and taken her to the town square, intending to stone her to death. Jesus came along and said,
"Dudes, they're in love! Haven't you ever been in love?!" Then he said, "Let anyone here who doesn't think love is just the most awesome thing in the world cast the first stone."
The old, white guys dropped their stones, linked arms, and went away singing "All you need is love."
Then Jesus turned to the young woman, handed her a JC brand condom, winked and said, "Go follow your heart, but practice safe sex."
We know what god thinks of Jimmy Carter, for verily he sent the giant rabbit to attack his stupid cracker redneck ass.
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