MEANWHILE, at the Vatican, Pope Francis says:
People may well have a growing ecological sensitivity but it has not succeeded in changing their harmful habits of consumption which, rather than decreasing, appear to be growing all the more. A simple example is the increasing use and power of air-conditioning. The markets, which immediately benefit from sales, stimulate ever greater demand. An outsider looking at our world would be amazed at such behaviour, which at times appears self-destructive.I'd read this earlier via Virginia Postrel, linking to "Pope Francis Is Wrong about Air Conditioning" at The National Review.
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53 comments:
Air conditioning a building in a hot climate uses much less energy than heating a building in a cold climate.
I certainly hope he has turned off the A/C in the Vatican before bloviating like this. Be an example !
The Southeast is in the midst of a heat wave too. The kind of weather that eventually picks you off, but weakens you first.
Every year, extreme cold kills an order of magnitude more people than does extreme heat.
Every year, extreme cold kills an order of magnitude more people than does extreme heat.
Do you have a cite for that? I'm pretty sure you're wrong (especially the order of magnitude part)
Nice of the Pope to lecture about consumption.
Yeah, the SE is doing a nice impression of Hell now. Over 90 degrees at 9 at night and in the mid 80s at 7 in the morning.
As someone who has become more religious as the US and West seem to be getting less religious, it pains me to say that the Pope is a dope. He seems to be a mix of the religion and politics you would expect to get from South America where he comes from - leftist, socialist, big gov't claptrap. For those of us who do not want to see massive immigration from South of the US, a big part of that is that we don't want millions more people voting the Pope's way.
A higher standard of living is bad for the Church.
Catholics made a terrible pick for Pope who will devastate attendance in the West (progressivism is deadly for church attendance) and makes me ecstatic that I'm not Catholic.
Well, the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel was very impressed with the Pope's climate scientist credentials.
Can one be a "Cafeteria Catholic" if one is not Catholic? And why would the j-s editorial page think the pope had any particular authority to speak on this subject, when it surely doesn't consider the Pope (or the Catholic Church in general) to have any particular authority to speak on social issues?
http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/pope-francis-stands-with-science-on-climate-change-b99522974z1-308539341.html
Let me know when his Holiness replaces his silk robes with ordinary cotton and turns off air conditioning in the Vatican.
Francis is the spiritual heir to the Renaissance popes who lectured on celibacy while fathering children with their mistresses. Only he lectures people about consumption while wearing robes that cost the annual income of a middle class household.
Oh good lord, another half wit pretending to know what aliens visiting our planet would be surprised by. It's the argument of fools who have no argument.
The Catholic haters are out in force again.
They are obsessed with this Pope, as they are aware and afraid of the power he has. How they might lose their partisan war because of a guy in a funny hat.
Every thread they must throw their poo at the Pope, like Walker haters having to post their invective at every opportunity.
I generally can't stand AC (it's often freezing in restaurants and at the office) but it's often a necessary evil--it gets hot and humid in the mid-Atlantic. If even I have to jack it up to tolerate the summer heat, I defy any AC-hater to try living in 100-degree heat and high humidity for a week without it.
Unless you can stay in a pool all day. That's preferable.
Air conditioning is a gift from God, says this Catholic who grew up in the Midwest without air conditioning.
How do "the markets" "stimulate ever greater demand" for A/C? A magic global warming button?
sykes.1 wrote:
Every year, extreme cold kills an order of magnitude more people than does extreme heat.
The Pope is unimpressed by that too:
A person who ... uses less heating and wears warmer clothes, shows the kind of convictions and attitudes which help to protect the environment.
The Catholic haters are out in force again
One must "Hate" Catholics to notice that the Pope is a bit of a dimbulb?
I know the Pope's type. His is a classic "liberation" theology -- meaning Marxism dressed up in Jesus language. For decades I confronted that problem in my extensive ag development work in Latin America.
In the name of "land reform" successful family farms employing score of other families were broken up and handed to those families, who had no clue about management or markets. Even worse, they prohibited the new "owners" from passing the land preferentially to only *one* of their children. Consequently, what was once a viable, job-creating family farm has been broken up into thousands of ... gardens, now being abandoned because they're utterly non-viable.
Hunger is returning, as it always does under Marxism.
By contrast, other villages, served by evangelical protestants (mostly Nazarenes and Adventists) ultimately rejected "liberation theology" for the "protestant work ethic" and are now flourishing. Details would be TMI, but as a farmer and agronomist myself, please believe me.
"Liberation Theology" such as that evinced by the current pope destroys the economy, businesses, families, and ultimately the land, as (for example in much of Peru) families desperate for cash cut down every tree within miles.
The pope's views on climate are no less misguided, confused, dangerous, and ultimately destructive than they are in regard to other aspects of the economy.
This ex-Roman Catholic has lived a summer in Mississippi without air conditioning.
On hot summer days when growing up in Minnesota when the non-air conditioned church was 8000 degrees, our priest would skip the sermon.
The pope should stick to popein'.
The markets, which immediately benefit from sales, stimulate ever greater demand.
"The markets", see, are wholly separate from individuals making purchasing decisions--the markets themselves create a demand. The fact that a market is made up of (many) individual buyers and sellers doesn't factor into it--it's somehow the magic of marketing or sales or some other false consciousness at work that all but forces people to consume in a way "an outsider" would find amazing.
By the way, I agree it is amazing that human beings have an infinitely higher standard of living than do any other primates. It is amazing how much higher the world's standard of living is now compared to just a few hundred years ago, thanks to the industrial revolution and markets. I share the Pope's amazement...well, the amazement he should have, anyway.
This pope is a nincompoop, says this Catholic. I don't pay any attention to him. Neither should the rest of you, IMO.
Lots of folk yelling, "Atta boy, Pope!". Many will also claim there is no God with, nearly, the same breath.
Tribal cheering and jeering.
Oh yeah, I also hear the Pope says you can not work in the arms industry and be a Christian. No mention of being pro choice, or tobacco farming or....
Does the Church still preach against masturbation with the same zeal as when I was young? Or is air-conditioning the new thing. Morality changes over time. First young people are warned about the evils of masturbation, but now we see how excessive air conditioning damages the soul.
Let me tell you non-Catholics something about being Catholic. We don't march in lockstep behind the pope and we aren't required to do so except in extremely rare instances when special circumstances obtain. Dissent is permitted, normal, frequent, and substantive. And--this is important--the Catholic faith is bigger than the pope. Much, MUCH bigger. Catholics say, only half-jokingly, that you aren't a real Catholic until you've left the faith and come back to it three times. After coming back to it for the third time you probably understand how and what it means to say that the faith is bigger than pope.
Does the Church still preach against masturbation with the same zeal as when I was young?
No.
People may well have a growing ecological sensitivity but it has not succeeded in changing their harmful habits of consumption which, rather than decreasing, appear to be growing all the more. A simple example is the increasing use and power of air-conditioning. The markets, which immediately benefit from sales, stimulate ever greater demand. An outsider looking at our world would be amazed at such behaviour, which at times appears self-destructive."
Air conditioning is "at times" "self-destructive"? What a goddamn fool.
For 1800 years the Church helped to keep the poor poor. Then "markets" fueled real per-capita growth and poverty shrank for the first time in human history. The Church has never liked the competition. Add Argentinian leftism and you have a religiously self-destructive brew.
Every European (I realize Francis is Argentinian, but he knows his audience) thinks they have hot summers and that AC is a waste. Until they come here in the summer and we aren't even talking southern/south western heat.
Just look at last summer's heat wave in England. It was 85 during the day and in the 70s at night and they were wiggin out for some window units so they could sleep.
I am sure the old walls of the Vatican stay cool like a basement.
The pope took a vow of poverty. I didn't.
They are obsessed with this Pope, as they are aware and afraid of the power he has. How they might lose their partisan war because of a guy in a funny hat. Every thread they must throw their poo at the Pope, like Walker haters having to post their invective at every opportunity.
Lifetime Catholic here, including most of grade school and high school. And I'm in strong agreement with those you call "haters" here.
The pope is flat-out wrong in his beliefs about this stuff. I have never bought the church doctrine that somehow being poor and miserable on earth is the key to heaven. I can't imagine a God who will punish you if you work hard, raise a family and help others, and I don't understand why Catholics who are so quick to get defensive don't see that this Pope is saying just that.
He grew up under a socialist system, surrounded himself with socialists, and you wonder why we're all worried about our standard of living?
Tank: As someone who has become more religious as the US and West seem to be getting less religious, it pains me to say that the Pope is a dope. He seems to be a mix of the religion and politics you would expect to get from South America where he comes from - leftist, socialist, big gov't claptrap.
"Francis the Talking Pope", as some Catholics I know refer to him.
I guess one has to be d'un certain âge to get the ref, but I laughed.
I'm not a Catholic basher (cradle Catholic myself), but the standard "the press misrepresents what he really said" defense (while surely true in a lot of instances) is wearing a bit thin here. (Also ought to stop talking out of his Pope hat about the migration crisis in Europe.)
Also, "Pope Hippie".
That's not the only problem. I'm still trying to figure out why they waited to launch the attack until after the two hour battle.
Is the pope ready to pay income taxes on his churches in America? Property taxes? Perform gay marriages? Ordain women?
Then shut the fuck up, you moronic commie.
The Pope is against air conditioning because its use has led to smaller familes [due to less screwing on hot sleepless nights] and smaller families have led to fewer priests [fewer sons in a family means the parents are less eager to see one of their sons become a priest].
So yes, I think the Pope, in this case, is being a sneaky bastard and just trying to beef up the rolls of priests.
"Pope Moonbeam" works pretty well for me.
We don't hate our two year old child when we tell him NO.
Sorry, but childish nonsense cannot be transformed into god's orders by wearing silly Pontiffs robes and hats while adorned with golden scepters and rings. The Italians are not sent by Christ to get their tyrannical ways obeyed by the family no matter how much false guilt they shovel pretending Jesus made them Boss in charge of distribution of deadly legalism poisons that require a daily purchase of Priest Antidote available for 4 easy installments and free shipping.
Jesus of the scriptures makes everybody special that believes in his message written down by Paul and a few others, once and forever. Its all in the scripture the Popes of the Roman Empire fought so hard for so many centuries to suppress, the better to protect their wealth and privileges.
How much wealth and privilege will flowing in a World UN Commission that owns all electrical power distribution on earth and collects the loot. That is all Frances, the acetic lover of the energy poor, wants his share of.
Progs and death. Like clockwork. I have friends who are very Observant. You should hear what they say.
"Pope Francis Is Wrong about Air Conditioning"
That dude should stick to something he knows about, like exorcising demonic spirits and being mean to the devil.
Vatican hopes new air conditioning will prevent ‘painful’ limit to Sistine Chapel visitors
The pope is against abortion, and endorses a particular side in a scientific debate. One is an issue of morality, on which the Pope has zero authority, and the other is an issue of science, on which the Pope is infallible.
I was in the Sistine Chapel during the restoration in the 90s and again after it was finished. This is a valid reason for a strong A/C system even if you are an enviro weenie.
The French have built a duplicate of the Chauvet Cave to protect the real one from the same problem. I have been there and it is very impressive without endangering the real one.
Lots of folk yelling, "Atta boy, Pope!". Many will also claim there is no God with, nearly, the same breath.
I've argued that trying to change your church to bring in people who won't attend at the expense of people who DO attend is an exceptionally stupid idea.
The young who don't go to church...most eventually do come back. Patience.
Huh. I didn't realize that encyclicals don't have to be ex cathedra, and this one isn't? In fact, actual ex cathedra infallible statements by popes are damn near generational occurrences, and more rare than hen teeth?
I Callahan ... my grade school had nuns in habits, my high school nuns without habits.
Even my elderly father is happy to have someone pushing the church away from where people like Morlino our local bishop is taking it.
I'll start listening when the Pope removes all the air conditioning and heating units from the Vatican.
The solution is affordable, available energy.
Mark - where is Bishop Morlino taking it? I live in the Detroit area, so I have no idea what goes on in your archdiocese.
Is there something anti-Catholic about what he's done? Is he too modern? Not modern enough for liberal Catholics? Just curious.
So, will the Left take his views on abortion seriously NOW?
Not modern enough for liberal Catholics?
I would say Morlino is not modern enough for 19th-century Catholics.
There's a heat wave in the southwest too... oh, wait, 108 in Las Vegas in June is normal. Never mind.
Roughcoat said...
Air conditioning is a gift from God, says this Catholic who grew up in the Midwest without air conditioning.
Word.
I'd like to find out where Mr. Dodge or his decedents live and just go up and hand them a thousand dollars.
"Here ,man. This is for you. Thanks. "
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