Althouse: "Male pedicure customers are despised by many manicurists for their thick toenails and hair-covered knuckles."

May 9, 2015

"Male pedicure customers are despised by many manicurists for their thick toenails and hair-covered knuckles."

"When a man comes into the store, almost invariably a non-Korean worker is first draft for his foot bath, salon workers said."

Just one thing I'm extracting from the prominent NYT article "The Price of Nice Nails/Manicurists are routinely underpaid and exploited, and endure ethnic bias and other abuse, The New York Times has found."

35 comments:

rhhardin said...: If they're underpaid why do they work there.

That's something a male might say.; 5/9/15, 6:27 AM
Anonymous said...: despising your customers is not good for business success...; 5/9/15, 7:31 AM
Anonymous said...: Legal Brown women taking advantage of illegal brown women...; 5/9/15, 7:38 AM
Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...: I blame the "meager tip[per]s" - probably NYT readers, one and all.; 5/9/15, 7:44 AM
Ann Althouse said...: What are readers supposed to do in response to the NYT article? The main idea would be to stop using nail salons, but that won't improve conditions there. Manicures and pedicures are not really needed, and you can be guilt tripped out of them. There are so many salons in NYC -- look at those maps -- it's nuts!

I don't see how you can enjoy it as an extravagance or as a way to be nice to yourself... not if you're the kind of person who would read that article in the first place.

Or do you think nail-salon-loving NYT readers will just start giving cash tips. $10 ought to be enough. The manicure/pedicure is so cheap at these places.

(I get pedicures sometimes, not at a nail salon, but at the same place where I get my hair done, and I pay something like $75. And that's in Madison.); 5/9/15, 7:46 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "I blame the "meager tip[per]s" - probably NYT readers, one and all."

Yeah, I think the low pay is legal because it's a position where they get tips.; 5/9/15, 7:49 AM
MayBee said...: The Today Show recommends you ask your manicurist and her manager about working conditions and pay as you sit down for your manicure.

Which is I'm sure what everyone wants. Everyone wants to talk about their pay to their customers.

I have to say....You can tell which manicure spots are the ones likely mistreating their customers. Pay more and go to a nicer salon, NY SJWs! Stop trying to get something on the cheap as you advocate for income equality!; 5/9/15, 7:55 AM
Ann Althouse said...: By the way, the salon where I pay $75 for a pedicure has a "no tipping" policy, which I like.; 5/9/15, 7:57 AM
Freder Frederson said...: Yeah, I think the low pay is legal because it's a position where they get tips.

Well then, you didn't read the article very carefully. (the article highlighted how some of these technicians work for months for no pay)

And you obviously don't have the first clue about how exploited undocumented workers are.; 5/9/15, 8:07 AM
Freder Frederson said...: Your reaction to the Lincoln assassination would probably be, "But how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?"; 5/9/15, 8:28 AM
Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...: Why is there no demand for a boycott of these nefarious dens? Is it because people would have to (gasp!) wash their own feet and clip their own toenails?; 5/9/15, 8:33 AM
MayBee said...: It's just interesting to me how many social justice policies revolve around the social justice warriors wanting to get services done for them for cheap.

They want cheap manicures, cheap lawnmowers, cheap nannies. And then are upset to discover their cheap laborers have difficult lives.; 5/9/15, 8:52 AM
Anonymous said...: What's with women and pedicures?
Do you think men whisper to each other "Man, did you see the toes on that chick?"; 5/9/15, 9:18 AM
MayBee said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 5/9/15, 9:46 AM
Edmund said...: In Houston, the business is dominated by Vietnamese shops. The cost for a mani/pedi here in suburban shops is much more than in NY, at least at the ones I take my elderly Mom to. Texas also has a licensing regime for manicurists. Another area that is dominated by immigrants is eyebrow shaping by threading.

The Vietnamese also dominate the business in California and in muchof the US. Here is why:
http://www.npr.org/2012/06/14/154852394/with-polish-vietnamese-immigrant-community-thrives

(TLDR: In the mid-70s, actress Tippi Hedren worked with Vietnamese refugee groups and got some of them trained.); 5/9/15, 10:55 AM
Edmund said...: Do you think men whisper to each other "Man, did you see the toes on that chick?

Rule 34 man, Rule 34.
https://xkcd.com/305/; 5/9/15, 10:57 AM
David said...: LarsPorsena said...
What's with women and pedicures?
Do you think men whisper to each other "Man, did you see the toes on that chick?"

Your job is to make those toes curl. Their job is to have them look good when they do.; 5/9/15, 11:20 AM
Anonymous said...: Althouse wrote:

"By the way, the salon where I pay $75 for a pedicure has a "no tipping" policy, which I like."

Althouse exhibiting the dreaded, "short arms, deep pockets," syndrome that infects so many women.; 5/9/15, 1:28 PM
Ann Althouse said...: The no tipping policy goes with high prices that cover higher wages. That's the deal. I like that. It's not about stinginess. It's about comfort.; 5/9/15, 2:00 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "'Yeah, I think the low pay is legal because it's a position where they get tips.' Well then, you didn't read the article very carefully. (the article highlighted how some of these technicians work for months for no pay)."

No, you didn't read very well. I simply expressed a position about why lower than minimum wage is LEGAL. I wasn't saying anything about what else was going on and about the things that are not legal.

I don't know what the legalities are when someone is getting no pay at all. What are the rules about unpaid interns who are supposedly getting some sort of learning experience? When is that allowed?; 5/9/15, 2:03 PM
Ann Althouse said...: My comment about tipped workers related to this paragraph in the article:

"Nail salon workers are generally considered “tipped workers” under state and federal labor laws. Employers in New York are permitted to pay such workers slightly less than the state’s $8.75 minimum hourly wage, based on a complex calculation of how much a worker is making in tips. But interviews with scores of workers revealed rates of pay so low that the so-called tip calculation is virtually meaningless. None reported receiving supplemental pay from their bosses, as is legally required when their day’s tips fall short of the minimum wage. Overtime pay is almost unheard-of in the industry, even though workers routinely work up to 12 hours a day, six or even seven days a week."; 5/9/15, 2:06 PM
Ann Althouse said...: Here's a "The Economist explains" piece answering the question: "Are unpaid internships illegal?"

"Internships do not have special legal status: an employer cannot dodge the minimum wage simply by classifying a temporary worker as an intern... In America, the Supreme Court ruled in 1947 that the Portland Terminal Company, a railway firm, was justified in not paying its trainee brakemen during a seven-day course that they were obliged to take before beginning their paid employment. The trainees were “work[ing] for their own advantage”, the Court ruled. More recently, the Department of Labour has come up with six conditions that firms must meet when offering unpaid internships.... Firms that fail to pay are in growing danger of being taken to court. Last year Fox Searchlight, a film distributor, lost a case against two former unpaid interns who had worked on the film “Black Swan”. A string of companies in the media and fashion industries, from NBC to Donna Karan, have had to settle similar cases. The tide may be turning against unpaid internships...."; 5/9/15, 2:12 PM
Seeing Red said...: I tip 20%. Sometimes 25%.
NYC is expensive, To live there, u cut corners.just raise the minimum wage, all will be well.

Or that's the premium to live in NYC. I hate that the rest of the country is being forced to impoverish themselves because urban blue staters want to live
the life but not pay for it.

Entitled gits.; 5/9/15, 2:15 PM
CatherineM said...: A lot of this article doesn't add up. Workers are paying an owner hundreds to work at the salon and not getting paid?

The writer needs to get out more. She didn't know about the racism between Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, etcetera? Duh.

She is Surprised at how poor people live? When I waitressed the bus boys (no habla ingles) shared 1 bedroom with 6 people. It was clean and they divided the living space by sheets. They thought it was fantastic. Not too different from many of my own relatives today (2 bedrooms and 5 people living there) or my grandparents living in 4 room house with 2 adults and six kids. My parents lived similarly and they took in borders they met via church (immigrants like themselves) to make ends meet. This is not new.; 5/9/15, 2:22 PM
Marc in Eugene said...: Of course it's not, CatherineM, but it's very far from the actual experience of most people who comment in these threads, I suspect.; 5/9/15, 3:25 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 5/9/15, 3:25 PM
Anonymous said...: "And you obviously don't have the first clue about how exploited undocumented workers are."

Then let them go back to their native country, so they can live a life free of exploitation.

Oh, they came here willingly? Illegally? They took the job willingly?

Huh. Sounds like it's benefiting them. What's your other solution? Give the entire world US citizenship? That's not going to work either.; 5/9/15, 3:42 PM
CatherineM said...: This is the usual experience at salons too. All the little extras add up so the $10 mani ends up costing more. This is funny: http://youtu.be/92fD8Cy2zL0

Also, when I waitressed in the 80s it was $2.01 an hour plus tips. In that state we had to report our tips on the time card. If the tax man thinks you are cheating (based on gross sales of the day worked) it would come out of your pay check. When I waited tables a few years ago in NYC it was similar, but rather than reporting on your card, we had to pool the tips (and bus boys got a %) and the restaurant only paid you about $20 a week.; 5/9/15, 3:45 PM
Freder Frederson said...: I simply expressed a position about why lower than minimum wage is LEGAL.

A lower than minimum wage is NOT LEGAL (see I know where the caps lock key is too). You even apparently realize this when you then go ahead and quote the text from the article that states employers must make up the difference if tips plus the subminimum wage do not add up to minimum wage.

Then you say to your self: "oh shit, I better come up with some farfetched reason why it is legal to pay them less than minimum wage, or not at all. Yeah, maybe they're interns."

Did you even believe your own bullshit?; 5/9/15, 3:46 PM
CatherineM said...: Oh, PS Mr Pucket, when I had a tiny cheap studio (no BR) in a very unhip area and wanted to go back to school, I took in some friends as borders (some only a month, others for nearly a year if they needed to save). Feeling insecure about a job years later, I rented a spare room which was smart because I was indeed let go 9 months later and it took 2 months to find A job. She moved out a year later and I saved that extra cash. Forgot all about that. The tradition of borders continue!; 5/9/15, 4:00 PM
CatherineM said...: This is better. http://youtu.be/GoqcAe06Fz8; 5/9/15, 4:22 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 5/9/15, 4:57 PM
Babaluigi said...: This is entry-level work for "unskilled", non-English speaking (the person may actually be quite "skilled" in something, but the language barrier can be high and wide) immigrants.Yes, they are quite easy to exploit, and always have been (remember "The Jungle"?....just do not read it right before eating)...An "illegal status" further exacerbates the situation, because they truly find themselves at the mercy of others.

My work experience with fresh immigrants was in the 80's and 90's in the restaurant business. They were mostly refugees from Southeast Asia (Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam).
They (the single men) would rent an apartment together as a large group, but only with others of their own nationality, as the three groups did not care for each other. They would likewise line up a beater car to be shared because by the time most of them finished their dishwasher and like jobs, the buses would no longer be running. Whatever it was they did when they were not working where I was, it did not include the expensive American pastimes of alcohol and cigarettes. After a while, when they had saved enough money, they would one-by-one acquire a personal vehicle and peel off from the communal living arrangements.

I know these men were constantly ridiculed because of their lack of English, and the fact that most of them were only a bit taller than 5 feet probably did not help things. One of them was attacked on the street by a disturbed Vietnam Vet shrieking something about "gooks", but another gentleman took about all of the ridicule he could from one of the cooks and broke his jaw with his foot...oops.

Despite the difficulties here, and the greater ones left behind, most of them strove to learn our language and ways in order to become "American." I think most of them were here legally, resettled by a church or some group (and promptly forgotten), but I was once asked if I would let a group of "friends" of one of them stay at my place for a week while I was out of town...; 5/9/15, 5:14 PM
Babaluigi said...: ...whoops, I do not know why I put,
"... and 90's..." in there...; 5/9/15, 5:22 PM
Tari said...: Edmund, my experience in Houston is the same as yours. The salon I go to - when I go - is owned by a Vietnamese Christian family, and all the women working there are Vietnamese. They have been at the same shop for ages, and it's a very friendly and open place. I'm sure those women aren't making a ton of money, but it doesn't look or feel like an abusive situation at all. When I first moved to Houston in the early 90's I would go with my mom-in-law to her favorite salon, and it was similar. There, most of the women were UH or HCC students. I would get "oh, you studied English in college? I am studying accounting. My brother is at law school in Austin." or something similar, from quite a few of them. My husband finished his BA at UH, so it was very believable; many of his classmates worked similar jobs - waiting tables at their parents' restaurant and the like, while taking a full class load.; 5/9/15, 11:15 PM