Presidential candidate and Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) said in an interview with Univision’s Jorge Ramos on Wednesday that he would attend a gay wedding of someone he was close to — while qualifying that he wouldn’t condone the union itself.It's a good comic idea, which is why I and, I assume, many others clicked on it, which is all that is needed to be "popular" for the purposes of climbing an internet "most popular" chart. The execution of the comic idea is another matter. But that's subjective, and it's going to depend on whether you feel empathy for politicians who need to adopt a namby-pamby pose on gay marriage.
I stopped to contemplate the quality of my own humor. Should I say "a namby-pamby pose"? To help decide, I did a Google image search on the phrase "a namby-pamby pose." #1:
My question is answered. The god Serendipity has spoken.
UPDATE: Speaking of gods speaking, no sooner do I publish this post than my doorbell rings. Though I don't normally answer the doorbell, I go to the door. It's 2 men in suits and a little boy. They've got copies of The Watchtower. Here's how I reacted:
Ah! It's such a perfect day today! I believe in The Universe!
Posts
97 comments:
I side with Rubio. I won't attend a wedding even of a close relative, until singles are granted equal rights under the law.
Civil marriage is a cabal that serves to separate "acceptable" people from the "unacceptable."
I also don't support granting civil marriage rights to gays, since by marrying they are only guaranteeing themselves a place at the gummint benefits trough, not advancing the cause of individual freedom. It would be like Jews becoming Honorary Christians in order to get into a country club in days past.
#1 on The New Yorker's "most popular" list
How many clicks does it take to get to the top of the New Yorker's most popular list?
"They've got copies of The Watchtower"
What I want to know is did all the women come and go?
Barefoot servants, too?
Wow! A threefer! You managed to attack Rubio, Conservatives and Christians, and an unpopular religious sect all in one post.
If only you had managed to throw in a splooge stooge reference......
Althouse, the fag hag, bangs on your door to sell you on butt fucking.
She's got her hairshirt wearing back stabber in tow.
He's carrying her pettifogging manual containing her 10,000 HR rules.
What do you do?
So, Prof, you'd go to a gay wedding, but not a Jehovah's Witness wedding?
Even tho' I'm a dyed-in-the-wool mackerel snapper, I have had a soft spot for the Jehovah's Witnesses ever since I was 14 & had the hots for a 15 yr old redhead JW chick who routinely showed up at our door with her older brother. Hey, sometimes, for us humans, the carnal can be a step towards the divine, mmmmmmkay?
When the JW show up at my door now, I always happily accept their publications, & chat them up. While I don't buy their theology, I admire their staunch pacifism, and how they have often suffered for it from various regimes around the world, including our own. While every lefty on the planet can tell you about how the US imprisoned Japanese Americans in concentration camps during WWII, rarely does one hear about how the JW were persecuted> for their pacifism. Oppressed brown people put away for "racism" fits the narrative. Blue-collar white folks smacked around for their "silly beliefs", why, they were probably "objectively pro-facist, or somethin'".
We are clearly coming to a time when not only are we going to be expected to attend gay weddings and bake cakes for gay weddings, but soon we'll be expected to give both grooms blow jobs.
I think lawyers (especially Constitutional) are missing the main point about State Marriages.
The point they are missing is the State License to marry, is like a States License to drive. It is completely arbitrary. The age of consent is made-up, the insurance and legal ramifications are made-up. The speed limit is made-up.
There is no Constitutional right to marriage, by anyone. But, rights not in the Constitution are reserved for the States.
I think the only way forward, is for the Supreme Court to rule that the Federal Government does not intend to regulate car licenses, nor marriage licenses.
That unless a person has more than one spouse in separate states, where they would be treated like a trucking commercial license, the Federal government does not intend to regulate in this area.
Definitely not a Presidential litmus test.
Ok, I'm having way too much ice cream in the park, and the misses wants to play volleyball, bye.
I guess we are looking for the gay equivalent of "I have no plans to run for office".
I have no plans to attend a gay event... after discussing it with my family... that doesn't mean I wouldn't answer the call, should the country need me to attend a gay event...
It's not hard to come up with a BS answer... if that's what the people want.
"So, Prof, you'd go to a gay wedding, but not a Jehovah's Witness wedding?"
What logical fallacies got you there?
When gay people ring my doorbell in an effort to talk me into becoming gay, I will let you know immediately. Until then, you've got no analogy to work with.
Writers for "The New Yorker" have a strict litmus test for candidates. It centers around any candidate's personal opinions of gay marriage. If they're for it personally, "The New Yorker" deigns them acceptable. If they're not for it, well tough shit. I say that's boring and predictable--as boring and predictable as the bigotry they allege.
The reason this is so interesting here is Scott Walker. Althouse is able to put aside the usual lefty litmus test for him, but "The New Yorker" is not and lumps him with Rubio. That creates an interesting frisson. Stay tuned.
The main reason I don't answer my doorbell is that I'm afraid it's a child trying to sell me something. It's much harder to reject kids face-to-face... especially with their moms a few feet back giving me their disapproving "He's a child!" looks if I say I don't want any candy.
Meade said...
What I want to know is did all the women come and go?
Barefoot servants, too?
It's interesting to consider the context of Bob Dylan's life when he wrote those lyrics.
@Meade: Any luck getting Althouse to even consider listening to "Slow Train Coming" or does it still get the usual John Lennon riff?
@Prof Althouse,
No logic at play at all.
But, I think that the "Ick!" factor enters into seemingly rational thinking in many ways. Some "Ick!" reactions such as feelings of "Ick!" towards gays no longer passes social muster in the worlds that you & I inhabit. Feelings of "Ick" towards JW does, and has for as long as there has been JW. And all because they want to hand you a copy of Watchtower or Awake?
Oh, and like there's no feminist activists who ever tried to talk you into becoming gay in all your years of academic involvement ("Remember, Ann, when the patriarchy is finished, all women will know that they are really lesbians...."). Granted, the gay activists have other things to do with their Saturday mornings than knock on your door in Madison, so they do have that going for them.
Why is there aneed for politicians to adopt a namby-pamby stance on gay marriage?
Why not just say I did not require strangers to come to my wedding, and I do not go to strangers' weddings?
For some reason I always seem to attract Jehovah's Witnesses wherever I go. The last time a couple knocked on my door and asked me to read the Bible with them I said, "sure, but you have to read something for me." (I should add that one of them was someone I knew from business, so they weren't strangers.) So we read a passage from the Bible, something that is not likely to do you any harm, and they left a Watchtower for me, then I gave them a reading to take home: the first chapter from a book on Aristotle. A few months later I got my book back and there was a bookmark about 80 pages in. And they never again asked me to read the Watchtower (or the Bible).
My basic position is that I am in favor of anyone seeking to be virtuous, however they arrive there. And I encourage the reading of Plato and Aristotle.
When gay people ring my doorbell in an effort to talk me into becoming gay, I will let you know immediately. Until then, you've got no analogy to work with.
How about when they demand that you bake a cake for their wedding? Or cater their wedding with take out pizza?
My take on gay weddings: Two Pees don't make a Wee.
The gay marriage mafia will try to determine this election. They have no idea how many people despise them. Not because of anti-gay prejudice but because they are so obvious and so certain of their own virtue.
Althouse: "When gay people ring my doorbell in an effort to talk me into becoming gay, I will let you know immediately"
When was the last time a heterosexual person rang your doorbell in an effort to convince you to remain heterosexual?
Politicians of all stripes take namby-pamby poses on lots and lots of issues. (That or they lie.) These verbal gymnastics are a great source of comedy, but alas our comedic talents tend to be so biased that they miss so many wonderful opportunities. That's probably why this is #1 on the New Yorker's "most popular" list. Their readership has declared so many topics to be unfunny that they are starving for any humor! I'm actually somewhat shocked that they allowed a Hispanic to be lampooned.
As to Rubio's position it does not seem unreasonable to me. Rather difficult to explain to someone who wants everything black and white, but it is logically coherent. I think we've all been there in some way or another, such as going to your sister's kid's birthday party when you think said kid must have been delivered by demonic stork, or attending some work related function featuring people you wish had suffered a stapler accident. People will often do things for family, friends, and work that they otherwise would not want to do.
Hillary clarifies which gay events she would attend, and to which events she would have to R.S.V.P. “no”:
Gay Barbecue
I would go to a gay barbecue, but I would respectfully refrain from eating meat because I want Vegans to know that I support their civil rights, too. That said, I love gay potato salad, love it.
Gay Bar Trivia
I would go to a gay bar trivia event, and remind them that gay rights are NOT trivial, and that, if elected, they can expect me to fight hard for their concerns. I simply hope that at the event everybody is a winner.
Gay Bar Mitzvah
I respect the Jewish religious tradition. But I would remind the people attending that Muslims have rights, too. Indeed: I will show up at a Muslim Bar Mitzvah, if invited.
Gay Christening
Of course I would attend. I have a grandchild, you know, and -- call it a Grandmother's Hunch -- but I think she might be gay. As President, I will fight for the Rights of possibly gay grandchildren everywhere in America.
Gay Wedding of Someone I’m Not Close To
I am always open to meeting new gay people, even those that are not currently potential donors: I'm a people person.
Gay Wedding of My Worst Enemy
I would not attend, but I would send a gift donation to the Clinton Foundation in their name. I see it as an opportunity to build Trust. Truthfully though, I don't think I have any gay enemies. Gay people know they have my full support, and that I will fight for them when I am President of the United States.
Gay Night at the Cubbyhole
I would certainly go to the well-known New York City lesbian bar the Cubbyhole: it would be a fantastic opportunity to better understand lesbian concerns in a relaxed environment. My eyes are light-sensitive though, so I will need to wear my sunglasses inside.
Gay Sex Party
I am a Grandmother, people. Of course, that is not to say that there aren't Gay Grandmothers across this Great Country enjoying an active gay sex life -- I am not saying that at all. And there are no health concerns that would prevent me from participating, if that is what you mean.
Intimate Evening with My Secret Gay Lover
I don't know how to properly answer that question: I am not a secretive person.
Gay Speed Dating
I would go to a gay speed-dating event in order to meet as many constituents as possible in a short time frame and get their support in the upcoming election.
Gay Anti-Gay-Marriage Rally
Of course I would attend, and I would hope I might be able to enlighten the anti-gay gays on how to be more inclusive. While being gay. Which I support, and will continue to support, as President.
My Own Gay Wedding
Huma and I laugh about this exact situation all the time. You know: Girl Talk. Women understand this.
I am Laslo.
I am generally sympathetic to Rubio, though his foreign policy and immigration position make him an unacceptable choice for me. As a gay man who generally supports gay marriage, I find the outsized attention this issue receives (from both sides of the political aisle) pretty absurd and ridiculous. Instead of combing through transcripts desperately hoping for an un-PC remark that can be used to paint a candidate as an atavistic troglodyte, how about a New Yorker piece making fun of Rubio's godawful immigration policy? I guess since both basically support the same policy, that's a nonstarter. No, no, much better to play up these silly non-issues so people can actually believe come 2016 they have a big choice to make between two radically different visions of the country instead of representatives of each of the two wings of the same state-corporatist party.
Michael K wrote:
The gay marriage mafia will try to determine this election. They have no idea how many people despise them. Not because of anti-gay prejudice but because they are so obvious and so certain of their own virtue.
it's getting absurd. Disagreement on policy questions becomes HATE speech.
Disagreeing with the lefty premise is hate speech. How can you argue against something if your disagreement is instantly hate speech?
Whether gays should have a right to marry or whether it's a logical/moral things to redefine marriage to include them is not an absolute simply because gays want it.
You have to make the logical argument. Same as with any other marriage restriction.
Should we allow incestual marriage? Well lets weigh the pros and cons.
I don't hear polygamists saying any objection to polygamy is hate speech, since they are a protected class.
And likewise, transgendered are now suing people for sexual harassment for referring to them as "she' instead of xim or whatever designation she wanted. I had never heard of the designation since its a made up thing. There is no such gender. You don't have sex changes to become xim's. I might even question the premise of a sex change. It's not a real thing.
But because they are a protected class, not only can I not discriminate against them (which is totally understandable) but discrimination becomes, not agreeing with their agenda.
A transgender can't use a womans bathroom. He/she sues for discrimination.
And you have to kow tow to the view that she is a woman and not a man. Otherwise you are hateful.
"But, I think that the "Ick!" factor enters into seemingly rational thinking in many ways. Some "Ick!" reactions such as feelings of "Ick!" towards gays no longer passes social muster in the worlds that you & I inhabit. Feelings of "Ick" towards JW does, and has for as long as there has been JW. And all because they want to hand you a copy of Watchtower or Awake?"
I reject all manner of strangers coming to the door (to the point where my basic policy is not to respond to the doorbell). I don't talk to any religious proselytizers or political or other proselytizers. If I want to find out about topics like religion or the next election or the environment, I'll find something to read. I don't want the person that comes to the door as my source! They have to do it because it's their religious practice. I get to choose not to speak with them. It has nothing to do with finding them disgusting as human beings. It's my policy to reject intrusions into my private space.
Would althouse want a chrstian baker to be forced to bake a cake for a satanic wedding?
althouse wrote:
They have to do it because it's their religious practice. I get to choose not to speak with them. It has nothing to do with finding them disgusting as human beings. It's my policy to reject intrusions into my private space.
And similarly Christians being asked to participate in weddings by force feel they are being intruded upon. And it may not be based on disgust of them as human beings.
"Althouse: "When gay people ring my doorbell in an effort to talk me into becoming gay, I will let you know immediately" When was the last time a heterosexual person rang your doorbell in an effort to convince you to remain heterosexual?"
Well, that's my point, isn't it? People don't come to the door trying to recruit you to a sexual orientation. Now, go back and try to understand why I wrote what I wrote in the context of the question I was answering, which was: "So, Prof, you'd go to a gay wedding, but not a Jehovah's Witness wedding?"
Are these brain teasers too difficult?
"When was the last time a heterosexual person rang your doorbell in an effort to convince you to remain heterosexual?"
Doorbells are old technology. I used email.
" #1 on The New Yorker's "most popular" list — that riffs on a WaPo item that reads:
Presidential candidate and Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) said in an interview with Univision’s Jorge Ramos on Wednesday that he would attend a gay wedding of someone he was close to — while qualifying that he wouldn’t condone the union itself.It's a good comic idea, which is why I and, I assume, many others clicked on it, which is all that is needed to be "popular" for the purposes of climbing an internet "most popular" chart. The execution of the comic idea is another matter. But that's subjective, and it's going to depend on whether you feel empathy for politicians who need to adopt a namby-pamby pose on gay marriage."
Well suppose your son decideds he wants to get married into a polygamist gay wedding? YOu might attend the ceremony because its your son, while at the same time still viewing that society shouldn't legalize polygamy. Would that be namby pambyism on your part?
Why is it so hard to answer the door when JW folks are there? You open the door, see who it is and very politely say, "Hello", and then immediately say, " I think it is wonderful you have such a strong belief in your faith, I have a strong belief in a different faith. I will respect your faith as I hope you will respect mine. Thank you." And shut the door.
Do those places include the funerals of those who die from HIV/AIDS or the body rotting cancer common to such?
you are allowed to cohabitate with whoever you want (except for polygamists who still had laws against their cohabitating, only applied to them until recently. And you are similarly allowed to have any type of ceremony you want.
That is a different question than what sort of license society must provide.
So, if its a case of a harem, I may not think we should have legalized harems, but would I attend the ceremony of people who were getting married into one if I knew and liked the people involved? Probably.
So too with Marco Rubio and gay weddings.
If satanic weddings met all criterion for marriage I might say they should get a license, but would I attend one? Probably not.
When was the last time a heterosexual person rang your doorbell in an effort to convince you to remain heterosexual?
I think Anita Ward tried in 1979 although she came into people's homes via radio waves:
(Ding Dong) You Can Ring My Bell
"Disagreeing with the lefty premise is hate speech. How can you argue against something if your disagreement is instantly hate speech?"
You can't because its all about them using power to enforce their views. Its NEVER about argument or "free speech" with the Left, they only use that when they don't have the power to enforce their will.
When you come right down to it, refusing to be sodomized by a homosexual is bigoted and homophobic.
BTW, I'm like Althouse. I never open the door for strangers who wish to sell me something. I also don't answer phone calls from people who are telemarketers or people who won't disclose their phone number.
Oops! That was the Donna Summers version. Here's the original Ring My Bell.
The Anita Ward version lacks the "ding-dong" reference (but does a ding-a-ling reference-thanks Chuck Berry) so it's not clear that she was shilling for straights. But Donna Summers definitely was...how else do you construe "Hot Stuff"?
It reminds me of Bob Hope old Joke:
"Did you about California's new Gay tolerance Law? I decided to leave before they made it compulsory."
Terry said...
When you come right down to it, refusing to be sodomized by a homosexual is bigoted and homophobic.
The thread has reached bottom.
I'd like to see a list of things that Hillary wouldn't lie about in order to advance her ambition........Gays don't ring your doorbell. They don't have to. They've got the entire politico-media complex to advance their agenda......I'm not against gay marriage. It seems like a sane and honorable way of dealing with your sexuality. On the other hand, going bare-assed while wearing leather chaps and sporting a daffodil between the cheeks does not seem dignified behavior. It does, however, help to reassure most men that they do have any closet homosexual tendencies.
"People don't come to the door trying to recruit you to a sexual orientation."
Yeah, they have university campuses for that.
I have two paths to Jehovah's witnesses
1. I'll save you a lot of time. I'm not interested.
2. I bring them Harold Bloom's passage on Jehovah's Witnesses and we read it together.
I have omitted a mass of details [of the JW apocalypse], but they do little to alter this pattern. What can most of us do with such a narrative? Lurid and cruel, it contrasts poorly with the apocalyptic elements in early Mormonism or even with the eschatological longings of Seventh-day Adventism. Though there are a number of rather savage apocalyptic scenarios current among American Fundamentalists, I am aware of none quite so inhimane as the Jehovah's Witnesses' accounts of the End of our Time. There is something particularly childish in these Watchtower yearnings : they remind me of why very small children cannot be left alone with wounded and suffering household pets.
The American Religion p.169-170.
My late friend Fred Grampp had the response
JWs: Hi, we're Jehovah's Witnesses.
FG: Hi, I'm God.
which he claimed was effective.
Althouse: People don't come to the door trying to recruit you to a sexual orientation.
Because there is no need. They can simply launch a little online Kristallnacht and destroy your livelihood because you were the first one to stop clapping at their wedding.
And meanwhile, the toughest questions asked of Hillary are: "How is your day going?"
If comedians weren't total liberal partisan hacks, we would be treated to laughs about Hillary killing a 7 month old fetus in exchange for unaccountable sex...
I bought all purpose cleaner from a guy selling it door to door once. He put on a whole show for it. Made a mess, cleaned it up, sprayed a wasp, and then drank some of the cleaner. He had an enthusiastic talk to go with it the whole time. It was like a door to door vaudeville act.
That was over ten years ago. No door to door salesman half as interesting has come buy since.
I don't think I ever used the cleaner.
Years ago I told some Witnesses that I was Catholic. I never saw them again.
Re: Door-to-door Jehovah's witnesses.
Don't turn them away, convert them.
Tell them that you will be glad to discuss religion, but the discussion must start with all of you holding hands and reciting the Nicene creed.
Jehovah's witnesses hate the idea of a triune God. Just like Muslims!
To help decide, I did a Google image search on the phrase "a namby-pamby pose."
I did a google search on the phrase "a namby-pamby pose" (the phrase in quotes, not just those words) and all the results, pretty sure, were on althouse.blogspot.com: Peewee, some politician, AA's avatar, two chairs, colored shorts, an ad for something and several posters' avatars.
Namby Pamby (1725)
by Henry Carey
All ye Poets of the Age!
All ye Witlings of the Stage!
Learn your Jingles to reform!
Crop your Numbers and Conform:
Let your little Verses flow
Gently, Sweetly, Row by Row:
Let the Verse the Subject fit;
Little Subject, Little Wit.
Namby-Pamby is your Guide;
Albion's Joy, Hibernia's Pride.
Namby-Pamby Pilly-piss,
Rhimy pim'd on Missy-Miss;
Tartaretta Tartaree,
From the Navel to the Knee;
That her Father's Gracy-Grace
Might give him a Placy-Place.
He no longer writes of Mammy
Andromache, and her Lammy,
Hanging panging, at the Breast
Of a Matron most distrest.
Hmm. When I have Jehovah Witnesses come by, I tell them "thanks but its not a good time, although its nice to see some real Christians about".
They smile and move on. Never had a problem. I don't know why people feel a need to be mean to them.
One of Ambrose Phillip's poems, described by his contemporaries as "namby-pamby":
Miss Charlotte Pulteney, in Her Mother's Arms
TIMELY blossom, infant fair,
Fondling of a happy pair,
Every morn and every night
Their solicitous delight;
Sleeping, waking, still at ease,
Pleasing, without skill to please,
Little gossip, blithe and hale,
Tattling many a broken tale,
Singing many a tuneless song,
Lavish of a heedless tongue,
Simple maiden, void of art,
Babbling out the very heart,
Yet abandon'd to thy will,
Yet imagining no ill,
Yet too innocent to blush;
Like the linlet in the bush,
To the mother-linnet's note
Moduling her slender throat,
Chirping forth thy pretty joys;
Wanton in the change of toys,
Like the linnet green, in May,
Flitting to each bloomy spray;
Weari'd then, and glad of rest,
Like the linlet in the nest.
This thy present happy lot,
This, in time, will be forgot;
Other pleasures, other cares,
Ever-busy Time prepares;
And thou shalt in thy daughter see
This picture once resembled thee.
A Jehovah's Witness once called me to say he had found my wallet. He told me that he had been working his way through the phone book on the "Ellison" category until he found me.
A good person.
Freeman Hunt said:
I bought all purpose cleaner from a guy selling it door to door once. He put on a whole show for it. Made a mess, cleaned it up, sprayed a wasp, and then drank some of the cleaner. He had an enthusiastic talk to go with it the whole time. It was like a door to door vaudeville act.
That was over ten years ago. No door to door salesman half as interesting has come buy [sic] since.
I don't think I ever used the cleaner.
I sold Fuller Brushes from door to door in Silver Spring, MD and in Georgetown, DC in the 60s. I felt that I could sell anything to anyone. Yes, I had an entertaining act.
The first time around, it's pure cold calls. Once you identify the houses of women who have "No Solicitors" signs posted by their DC lawyer husbands, your cold-calling days are over. You have identified a sucker, and you only have to return to the suckers to make future sales.
I could sell 24 toothbrushes "on sale" to a woman who needed only 8, belly-button brushes (shaver brushes) and 2 spray cans "on special" for $3.69 or 3 spray cans "on special" for $5.49.
None of the victims could figur out how to add the cans of $1.29, $1.69 or $1.79, and so ended up paying the "special" price.
The products were excellent and I didn't have to go work out at a gym after a day of walking.
I regularly get visits by Jehovah's Witnesses here in Rio de Janeiro. Super nice kids all, but they can't accept my invitations to play ping pong or take a swim in the pool, since they are required to socialize privately and only among themselves.
We do trade Bible verses, though. I once offered them my favorite that "the Lord has laid upon my heart," namely 1 Chron 26:18 -- "At Parbar westward, four at the causeway, and two at Parbar."
Two of them countered with their favorites, 1 Corinthians 10:24 and 10:25--
24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.
25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
Wisdom from the mouths of babes!
Fen says:
its nice to see some real Christians about".
Jehovah's Witnesses, like Mormons, are not considered Christians.
Furthermore, they observe the despicable practice of shunning any person who renounces the faith--only close family members are allowed to maintain contact.
Ann Althouse:
It's much harder to reject kids face-to-face
You must have a hell of a time at Halloween. Once kids came to my door in Austin saying, "Trick or Treat." Being a magician I performed a trick, which left them quite confused (and hungry).
I've lived/worked in the SF Bay Area for 50 years. Gay central. This means I have freely lived with, worked with, befriended, hired, fired, and butted heads (no pun intended) with gays nearly my whole life.
My general rule is to treat people how I'd like to be treated myself. No exception for gays.
My other general rule is that we are all flawed creatures created in God's image. No exception for gays.
I'm totally for easing up on our latent, somewhat Neanderthal homo-phobia that macho males (like me) were either taught or born with. I'm fine with that. A necessary social adjustment to include those, like gays, who have been historically excluded is not a big deal. Yes, let's do it.
But I must confess I'm still mystified about this political push for gay marriage.
Paraphrasing Kinky Friedman - Sure let the gays get married, let 'em become as miserable and dysfunctional as we are!
I am absolutely not a fan of the gay political agenda, the gay mafia, the gay push to force us to pretend that gay marriage is just "fabulous", that it has no impact on child-rearing, or familial relations or social relations. "Just grin, shut-up and pretend all is well" doesn't quite work for me.
And to be blunt, I've never seen a political movement come so far so fast, with so many political and judicial triumphs, and yet still seem so unsatisfied. Declare victory and go home, jeez.
As for gay weddings, I've declined attending 2, but this isnt a strict prohibition. Like most people, depending on how well I knew and liked the couple, of course I would go.
More important than gay politics though is to treat people better, and to encourage better marriages, better child-raising, and better, more civil dialogue with people when disagreeing about ideas or policy prescriptions. My 2 cents on the matter.
Couples have a natural origin. Couplets are the conception of a narcissistic mind. Still, there exists more than couples and couplets in our world. The trans-equality movement will need to reconcile their policy of selective exclusion with industry semantics.
As for people who would like to share their religion with a voluntary gesture: hello, thank you.
And for others who use force to establish, promote, and coerce compliance with their preferred orthodoxy: separation of Church, Cult and State, right? Perhaps not. It's competition for leverage.
Freeman Hunt said...Years ago I told some Witnesses that I was Catholic. I never saw them again.
I don't think the Baptists carry a map like the JW's do. They keep coming back every year.
jr... a bakery is by definition not a private space.
That ship sailed with the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
Stop being a reactionary.
ST... it's the GOP that has a gay problem. I guess you're ok with being shut out of the Presidency forever due to your gay hatred.
Shouting Thomas said...
Althouse, the fag hag, bangs on your door to sell you on butt fucking.
She's got her hairshirt wearing back stabber in tow.
He's carrying her pettifogging manual containing her 10,000 HR rules.
What do you do?
4/18/15, 10:33 AM
What an odious person you are. Truly disgusting, inside and out.
NaziFagAlex: "jr... a bakery is by definition not a private space.
That ship sailed with the 1964 Civil Rights Act."
Hey Alex, the Supreme Court says you are an idiot. Go practice your little Nazi fetish somewhere else.
"the Court has entertained the free-exercise claims of individuals who were attempting to make a profit as retail merchants. Braunfeld v. Brown, 366 U. S. 599. Business practices compelled or limited by the tenets of a religious doctrine fall comfortably within the understanding of the “exercise of religion” that this Court set out in Employment Div., Dept. of Human Resources of Ore. v. Smith, 494 U. S. 872. Any suggestion that for-profit corporations are incapable of exercising religion because their purpose is simply to make money flies in the face of modern corporate law. States, including those in which the plaintiff corporations were incorporated, authorize corporations to pursue any lawful purpose or business, including the pursuit of profit in conformity with the owners’ religious principles. "
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/13-354
Try to imagine for a moment two gay men, holding hands, come to Althouses door. And they want to talk to her about the rights of gay men to be in a union like man and wife.
Now try to imagine Althouse saying her reaction is like that of the pee wee Herman picture.
Yeah, I can't imagine it either.
Alex. Dipshit. Weddings are private events.
Alex wrote:
r... a bakery is by definition not a private space.
That ship sailed with the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
Stop being a reactionary.
A bakery is not a private space. But baking a cake for an event is baking a cake for an event. An event is not a private space. So, caterers, while catering from what is not a private space enagage in activities where they cater events outside of their public space, for people on a case by case basis.
As such they are allowed to say no.
A wedding photographer may have a studio, public place where she talks with customers. But if she takes on an assignment she has to travel to the location where event takes place. How is she obligated to attend all events merely because she has a space and says she takes wedding photographs?
Making things for events is different than making things for your store. There, its true, you can't deny someone something that you would give someone else. But since when does a consultant have to take a job?
jr... even if it's not illegal, what will happen is people will leave comments on that photographers's Yelp page to the extent that person will be hounded out of their profession....
That is the price you pay for your Jesus. Wanna keep your job, keep your Jeebus to yourself!
Which is why I asked about a christian photopgrapher and a satanic wedding.
Would you, Alex, FORCe a christian photographer to take photos at a satanic wedding, merely because she says she takes wedding photographs?
It would require her to actually participate in the event. A satanic wedding. Celebrating a union normally blessed by god instead blessed by the anti christ.
No way.
If two satanists came in and asked to by photos off the shelf she couldn't' tell them no (unless they were somehow disruptive) but it wouldn't' carry over to compulsion to engage in private ceremonies.
Alex wrote:
r... even if it's not illegal, what will happen is people will leave comments on that photographers's Yelp page to the extent that person will be hounded out of their profession....
That is the price you pay for your Jesus. Wanna keep your job, keep your Jeebus to yourself!
Those people leaving yelp reviews would be totalitarian bullies. Fuck them.
jr... the fact is that society does not like Satanists, so there would be no social consequence to denying that wedding. But society approves of gay weddings, so do it or lose your career.
Tough choosing between Jeebus and career!
jr... guess who gets the last laugh? Those people who left the 1-star Yelp reviews and hounded the photographer out of her profession.
You can wish them to your Christian hell, but who gives a fuck?
Knowing this, religious people should withdraw their stores from Yelp. Since Yelp can be used as a blackmail tool to put companies out of business through mob rule intimidation.
Knowing the degree to which you can sabotage a business through bad word of mouth, I wouldn't advertise my store on Yelp, even if I had no problems making cakes for gay people.
alex,
So you would FORCE the photographer to take the photographs of the satanic wedding. You would be that asshole.
Alex wrote:
jr... guess who gets the last laugh? Those people who left the 1-star Yelp reviews and hounded the photographer out of her profession.
You can wish them to your Christian hell, but who gives a fuck
The funny thing is that you would defend those people.
Would you FORCE the jewish caterer to serve you non kosher food simply because they say they cater, but you say you want pork served?
Sorry, but we don't serve non kosher food.
You say you cater! I want food! Tough choosing between your Torah and business.
There is not one bakery in all of the land, nor is there one wedding photographer. They can refuse to serve you for your private ceremony for any number of reassons. Get a photographer who has no problem serving a satanic wedding or a gay wedding.
jr... the thing is selective enforcement of laws has always happened. So Christian bakers will be forced to cater to gay weddings and Jewish caterer will not have to provide pork sandwiches to an event.
Selective enforcement is human nature. We like who we like and treat them accordingly. Same with those we despise.
Embrace being a Christian fed to the lions by the modern Hadrian!
Alex wrote:
jr... the thing is selective enforcement of laws has always happened. So Christian bakers will be forced to cater to gay weddings and Jewish caterer will not have to provide pork sandwiches to an event.
Selective enforcement is human nature. We like who we like and treat them accordingly. Same with those we despise.
I think you're being sarcastic. I can never tell with you.
Are there actually two Alex's?
Alex wrote:
Selective enforcement is human nature. We like who we like and treat them accordingly. Same with those we despise.
If serious, then, who's We in your point?
It is funny how gays only target christians when it comes to anti gay rhetoric. They never go after muslims who are also anti gay marriage, or even BLACK christians who are anti gay marriage.
Alex isn't hung up on this "rule of law" nonsense. Hater.
jr565,
Alex is just trolling you.
Trying to argue with him is just feeding the troll.
Hi, My name is Marco Rubio and (sip of water) I'm a Jehovah Witness.
paminwi said...
Why is it so hard to answer the door when JW folks are there? You open the door, see who it is and very politely say, "Hello", and then immediately say, " I think it is wonderful you have such a strong belief in your faith, I have a strong belief in a different faith. I will respect your faith as I hope you will respect mine. Thank you." And shut the door.
I just tell em to fuck off.
On kids selling something, just say "No, but thanks for asking."
If people lay mine fields for a politician just to blow him up, do they also get to snicker when that politician looks like Pee Wee Herman tip toeing through that mine field?
Mary, bakers wouldn't be refusing gays who come into their store buying goods they sell. They are objecting to attend a specific ceremony, or contributing to that event. Since it's a form of expression requiring them to do a custom order, they have rights of refusal (since they'd have to otherwise put effort into catering to thst event aside from work they'd do in general course of business.
Caterers can say no to events. Photographers can say no to events. Bakers can not bake cake for events.
Segregation allowed no one to serve blacks in restaurants thst weren't reserved for blacks. So it's not analogous.
When Christian bakers say they want cakes thst say " I don't support guy marriage" bakers say no thanks. Because they don't have to bake that cake. They have a right of refusal.
Meade said...
What I want to know is did all the women come and go?
♪ Say...women...they will come and they will go,
When the rain washes you clean...you'll know ♪
especially with their moms a few feet back giving me their disapproving "He's a child!" looks if I say I don't want any candy.
Do what I do, give them a little money and don't take their candy. You always get a smile and you don't have to have that food around the house.
Though I don't normally answer the doorbell, I go to the door.
Uh-oh, Althouse is getting brave!
Not to kids though. I don't tell kids to "fuck off". Just the people who should know better, adults.To the kids I say, "thank you, but no." plus I'm in my underwear.
Prior to the push for gay marriage the Christian support of marriage had literally zero gay animums. YOu might say Christians have gay animus, (though they would also have animus towards people who have sex out of wedlock. Us fornicators don't view that as Hate speech) but gay animus had nothing to do with support of traditional marriage.
If there was no gay animus prior to gays wanting gay marriage, why are you assuming there is gay animus now when Christians (or Jews) support the exact same definition of marriage that they always did.
The logic behind the supporting of a traditional marriage never changed.
Let us go then, you and I
When evening's spread against the sky
Like a patient etherized upon a table.
Let us go through certain half-deserted streets
The muttering retreats of sawdust restaurants, oyster shells
Oh, do not ask, "What is it?"
Let us go and make our visit.
In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michealangelo.
An ambitious gay boy from Khartoum
Took a lesbian up to his room
But they argued all night
Over who had the right
To do what, and with which, and to whom.
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