Even when I heard this bit as a kid, I wondered: Why would famous TV stars need a drug to get women interested in them?... Hearing it now, it's positively chilling, especially the crowd's easy laughter, which suggests that Cosby was able to put over his fantasy of women stripped of their ability to say no as something near universal.
November 18, 2014
"Here's the 1969 Bill Cosby Routine About Wanting to Drug Women's Drinks."
"Cosby's dozen-plus accusers tell similar stories: that, after having a drink with Cosby, they felt drugged and confused as he had his way with them. Curiously, Cosby himself once made such scenarios the center of a stand-up routine: Witness "Spanish Fly," a cut from his now-unfortunately titled 1969 LP It's True! It's True!."
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116 comments:
I really hope this turns out not to be true.
"[F]antasy of women stripped of their ability to say no as something near universal."
Horseshit.
"universal"? Fucking bigot.
This is terrible, because either Cosby did all that he's accused of, or he's being viciously smeared. I've always like Cos, so I'm hoping it's the latter.
He's being punished for commenting on the futility of black victimology.
That'll teach him.
Yeah, it does seem like he's being punished for not being properly progressive as a black man is expected to be. And this lacuna after the election is the most opportune time to do it.
It's sad to see that he is not defending himself.
Another way that people can demonstrate how morally superior they are: By castigating Cosby (whether the allegations are true or not!) Win for everyone, except for Cosby.
Ponder why he was able to do this for years, if true.
why should he defend himself against accusations with little or no proof?
All this happened way, way in the past.
At least one alleged victim claims the act occurred 30 years ago. Is it possible for physical or corroborating evidence to survive over that time? Is preponderance of allegations a legal or social standard for judgment? It seems that anything short of admission of guilt will offer an inconclusive testimony.
This is terrible, because either Cosby did all that he's accused of, or he's being viciously smeared.
Indeed. And you aren't going to be able to find any proof of anything either way when you wait 40 years, so that sucks.
Wasn't there some thing a while back about how when black people rap about murder and rape we can't assume that it constitutes confession of a crime and admit it as evidence in court, like some cops want to. They're playing "characters" see, and its will bias the jury.
Didn't even Eric Holder stick his nose into it?
Spanish Fly is an irritant that can act as an aphrodisiac but it's hard to tell from the noise he makes for "Crazy Mary" whether that's what he means or not. I'd like to see a video of the performance. Although it seems his point was that everyone had heard of Spanish Fly but no one had ever seen it.
It seems to me that back in the '60s someone would have called a drug that incapacitated someone a "mickey" or "Mickey Finn", but maybe that was only if it knocked them out completely.
I could be wrong. I was only 9 when this album came out so I have no idea what the available date rape drugs were.
Fortunately, many years of being a sports fan and a music lover have prepared me for this. If I'm ever tempted to think someone famous is "likeable," it's a very lightly held thought. If you are a big star, you almost certainly have a different psychology than everyone else.
Without taking a position on the accusations made against Dr. Cosby:
1)"Spanish Fly" was supposed to be an aphrodisiac, so that it would make people want to have sex, not incapacitate them; and
2)The routine was not about how Dr. Cosby used this as a famous person who could not get laid otherwise, but about his 12 or 13-year-old adolescent self and what others in the neighborhood said.
I think that forty years ago if a white woman accused a black man of raping her; it’s probably the black man professing his innocence who needed to worry about being believed.
Would it be off topic to mention Bubba Clinton? Surely Bubba is no more sacred than Cos. "Better put some ice on that..."
My first thought was that this only proves he's guilty. My second thought was that those accusing him of this listened to his album and came up with a way they could suggest he was guilty of something.
It's interesting to note how the reputation of Mike Tyson has been refurbished and that of Bill Cosby is being destroyed. I don't speak to the charges against Cosby, but there are many parts of his life that are exemplary--getting a PhD degree, speaking of personal responsibility, etc. I don't know if there is any area of Mike Tyson's life that is worthy or dignified. Rape, drug abuse, slapping his wife around, ear biting. The man has many levels of evil. And yet this is the man who gets flattering attention from journalists and late nite talk hosts.......Is Cosby somehow more suspect because he speaks out in favor of middle class values and is Tyson somehow purer because he has never done a decent thing in his life?
When the left starts investigating BJ Clinton and the Juanita Broderick allegations, I'll pay attention. 'til then, this is just another worthless old allegation that has no evidence to support it.
A dozen accusers.
Now imagine how many others there were who are either still afraid to come forward or who have since died.
20? 30?
Wonder if any of them died when he drugged and brutalized them. Wonder if any mothers went to the cops back in 1975 or 1980 with crazy-sounding stories that were dismissed as ravings.
Wonder if this Cosby rape story will be on the cover of People next week.
Wonder what we'll learn about Obama in the months to come. Now there is a man with secrets. Here's a great video from Powerline showing Obama lying...Watch for the fluttering eyelashes, the fleeting scary smug grins, how he avoids directly looking at his audience, the hectoring. It's all there to see. For those who want to see.
Is Cosby somehow more suspect because he speaks out in favor of middle class values and is Tyson somehow purer because he has never done a decent thing in his life?
Yes, there is a prevailing cultural attitude that the worst sin is hypocrisy. Bill Cosby is a worse person for preaching about the importance of stable families while having been unfaithful to his wife than Mike Tyson is for never having aspired to anything more than feeding his own carnal appetites. Even though one is at least trying to aspire to being something better, so long as he falls short of his own standards he’s worse than the person who never tries to be better than he is.
The Beastie Boys called it Brass Monkey but I don't think that means they actually rape, raped somebody.
By the way, that Whoopie Goldberg comment will never get old for me. She's a feminist, after all. And feminists would blow the president for keeping abortion legal. And feminists are winning the culture war. And anybody who says otherwise is an awful human.
Thus saith Thorley Winston!
What does a comedy routine have to do with anything?
"Spanish Fly" was thus rumored among adolescents back then, and it was a great disappointment to read/hear authoritative statements that the stuff just does not work that way.
"One Grope Rule!!"
"Dragging hundred dollar bills thru trailer parks!!"
"They were stalkers!!"
"Hey, you better put some ice on that!!"
BTW, here's an article from 2009 about the obama "routine" regarding using the IRS against his political enemies: http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB124260113149028331
Thorley: "Yes, there is a prevailing cultural attitude that the worst sin is hypocrisy."
Cosby's other "crime" has been to speak out publicly against some of the more "street" behaviors of many in the black community in ways that the cracks of the world are not thrilled about.
That routine was pretty funny and tame. In California, Spanish fly waqs something you hoped to find when you were getting your car upholstered in Tijuana.
The other thing was, you gotta watch the upholstery guy or he would use horseshit or newspapers to pad the seats. Everybody knew of "some guys friend" who had it happen to him.
I have no idea what the available date rape drugs were.
I grew up Dad's drugstore. Chloral hydrate was used to sedate people before dental, and surgical procedures. A few drops in a drink is a Mickey Finn.
Interestingly, chloral hydrate is no longer available. The wiki page provides a list of "Notable uses":
Jonestown massacre
Anna Nicole Smith
Marilyn Monroe
Hank Williams
William S. Burroughs
Mary Todd Lincoln
I thought the legend of Spanish fly was that it stripped women of inhibition, not "their ability to say no." That is, crudely, that it made them horny.
It's not "chilling" that people would laugh at that.
That said, these accusations go back years, from multiple women. I'm afraid they might be true. It sucks because I grew up in Philly laughing at his comedy albums. Sucks more because he was absolutely right about confronting black culture. That voice is lost.
The Beastie Boys called it Brass Monkey but I don't think that means they actually rape, raped somebody.
I maybe need to go back and look at the lyrics for that song.
My first thought was that the Funky Cold Medina guy better watch his back...
IIRC, Spanish Fly was advertised in the back of comic books and men's magazines, on the same page as "X-Ray Specs" and fake ice cubes and stuff like that. Circa 1964.
Cosby's other "crime" has been to speak out publicly against some of the more "street" behaviors of many in the black community in ways that the cracks of the world are not thrilled about.
According to this piece at Vox that's exactly what started up all the furor right now:
"The story has reached a fever pitch because of a combination of factors, but it all started with a comedy routine. In October, a clip of comedian Hannibal Buress brutally criticizing Cosby over the allegations in a standup routine went viral. And it was this very sentiment about Cosby that inspired Buress' comedy bit — the one that brought all of the allegations back into the public eye in October." ...
Here's the Hannibal Buress bit on Cosby:
"It's even worse because Bill Cosby has the fuckin' smuggest old black man public persona that I hate. He gets on TV, 'Pull your pants up black people, I was on TV in the '80s! I can talk down to you because I had a successful sitcom!' Yeah, but you rape women, Bill Cosby, so turn the crazy down a couple notches. 'I don't curse on stage!' But yeah you're a rapist, so... I'd take you saying lots of 'motherfuckers' on Bill Cosby himself if you weren't a rapist."
I suppose that if the truth were that he "didn't have sexual relations with" any of the accusers, he'd have given that answer by now. Nobody buys that "I won't dignify that accusation by denying it" BS.
On the other hand, if he'd made a practice of drugging and raping women 30 years ago, it's hard to believe that it wouldn't have come out long ago.
Perhaps the truth is that he did have a lot of sex, but consensual sex, with a lot of women, some of whom he then dropped in an ungentlemanly manner. (He did admit having an affair in the '70's, although he denied being the father of the woman's child.) Now that the news is full of stories about college women complaining about retroactive rape after having drunken sex, some of the scorned women may have decided that this is a good time for payback. Just speculation.
From Lydia's Vox link:
That's a lot of stories, and they can be hard to keep track of.
The girls' stories at the Salem Witch Trials suffered the same lack of something...cohesion?
Let's review the filed charges instead.
Note to Buress: Actually talking to cops and getting testimony on the record can help decision making.
I suppose that if the truth were that he "didn't have sexual relations with" any of the accusers, he'd have given that answer by now. Nobody buys that "I won't dignify that accusation by denying it" BS.
My grandmother used to warn me to “never mud wrestle with a pig” and I suspect that Cosby (who is nearly 80) had similar influences on his life. It may be hard to phantom in an era of 24-7 news coverage and social media but Cosby’s not from that generation.
Almost as chilling as "You might want to put some ice on that."
"He's being punished for commenting on the futility of black victimology."
Well, that's possible. Which doesn't mean the allegations are false.
MadisonMan: "Ponder why he was able to do this for years, if true."
Suppose he did (and I would much rather learn he didn't). Is it hard to believe it would have been swept under the rug for decades, for as long as he was a much-beloved star? An icon of whom no one would want to believe such things?
And that after he pissed off a large segment of the left, the more ruthless among them decided he'd forfeited the protection afforded him by virtue of being a huge star, not to mention a black man who'd made it big?
As Limbaugh said, it was a long time ago! Sheesh.
The girls' stories at the Salem Witch Trials suffered the same lack of something...cohesion?
Let's review the filed charges instead.
*Claps!*
I don't know if these accusations are true or not, but it is pretty much impossible to judge these things when they come out so long after the events are alleged to have occurred. I would never go so far as to say things can't be brought up later, but how much weight should we give to people who were unwilling to file anything with the police. If BC really had raped multiple women, surely at least ONE of them might have gone to the police?
would never go so far as to say things can't be brought up later, but how much weight should we give to people who were unwilling to file anything with the police. If BC really had raped multiple women, surely at least ONE of them might have gone to the police?
Agree. But you see how not going to the police feeds the Ferguson frenzy because the police are evil.
Why is this in the news now? Cosby was sued a decade ago by a woman who said he drugged and raped her and the case settled out of court. So what's the news here? why didn't all the women coming forward now not come foreword then?
And after Cosby falls, Dr. Ben Carson will be targeted next.
Lesson: if you're black and you get a doctorate, only theology is really safe.
One imagines Cosby's lawyer has advised him not to speak. One imagines that likelihood because it is sound advice.
garage mahal said...
As Limbaugh said, it was a long time ago! Sheesh.
11/18/14, 2:49 PM
As someone much more recognizable than I, famously said: At this point, what difference does it make?
One cannot ignore the fact that there are lots of. Crazy women who will make false accusations of this nature looking for fame and fortune. The idea that women don't lie about this sort of thing is a lie itself.
Oh and the headline and articles claim about the Spanish fly routine is a bullshit smear by mischaracterizating the bit. Typical junk journalism.
Sounds bad for Patriarch Cosby. He always had a superior attitude that turned me off.
Advice to the hysterical: Most of the people who were given Spanish Fly or took it voluntarily were men as a cure for impotence. Think of it as primitive Viagra.
This from a 2006 People Magazine article...
"What Cosby never mentioned [while onstage doing a show] was the civil lawsuit he settled just two days earlier with Andrea Constand, 32, a former Temple University employee who claimed Cosby drugged and sexually assaulted her in his Philadelphia-area mansion in 2004. Constand's lawyers Dolores Troiani and Bebe Kivitz ended up with 13 witnesses, most referred to in court documents as "Jane Does," who came forward voluntarily with strikingly similar claims of drugging and or abuse by Cosby. Terms of the settlement, reached before any of the women could testify, were not disclosed. But PEOPLE reporters have interviewed five of the women and share three of their stories now....
"None of the women ever contacted police with their stories, either at the time of the alleged assaults or in the years leading up to Constand's revelations, and two of the five women reached by PEOPLE allowed Cosby to pay part or all of their travel and/or living expenses for some time. Three accepted cash from him years after the incidents, and two even went on to have consensual relationships with him.
"news reports about Constand's subsequent civil suit are what coaxed Barbara Bowman, 39, out of hiding. The Denver-area native—who first told her story to Philadelphia magazine in November—was an 18-year-old model and aspiring actress in 1985, when her agent Jo Farrell arranged for her to meet Cosby. "It was overwhelmingly exciting," remembers Bowman, whose first meeting with Cosby took place at a comedy club in Denver. "He questioned me quite extensively about my personal history, my relationship with my father. My father abandoned me when I was 14." She says now, "In hindsight I look back and I realize what he was doing. He was getting information of where my vulnerabilities lay." In that first meeting, she claims Cosby gave her an acting exercise that struck her as disturbing: "He wanted me to imagine fully that I was inebriated, that I was out of control, drunk or drugged.... He wanted me to just slump in my chair, and he wanted my limbs to be limp, and he would whisper in my ear what he wanted."
....It was in a hotel in Reno, claims Bowman, that Cosby assaulted her one night in 1986. "He took my hand and his hand over it, and he masturbated with his hand over my hand," says Bowman, who, although terrified, kept quiet about the incident and continued as Cosby's protégé because, she says, "Who's gonna believe this? He was a powerful man. He was like the president." Before long she was alone with Cosby again in his Manhattan townhouse; she was given a glass of red wine, and "the next thing I know, I'm sick and I'm nauseous and I'm delusional and I'm limp and ... I can't think straight.... And I just came to, and I'm wearing a [men's] T-shirt that wasn't mine, and he was in a white robe."
A month or two later, she was in Atlantic City and says she was given another glass of red wine and felt "completely doped up again." Confused, Bowman somehow made it back to her room, but the next day Cosby summoned her to his suite. After she arrived, Bowman says, Cosby "threw me on the bed and braced his arm under my neck so I couldn't move my head, and he started trying to take his clothes off. I remember all the clinking of his belt buckle. And he was trying to take my pants down, and I was trying to keep them on." Bowman says that not long after she resisted the assault, Cosby cut off contact with her and had her escorted to the airport for a flight back to Denver. She didn't tell authorities about what happened, but she did approach an attorney who "wouldn't take it seriously..."
"Hearing it now, it's positively chilling". Yes, quite: The same left that won't criticize the rap from right now which glorifies rape, degradation and beating of women, finds a 40 year old comedy routine "chilling".
Even if it's not true it still show's a lack of conscience to run a comedy routine from it - even in those long ago free wheeling day's of the 60's - Right Noah? That said, a drugged to blackout woman is no fun. You want them taking the reins occasionally for that gallop around the playground. A willing mare is so much more fun don't you think?
The reason for this 30 year old unprovable and undeniable calumny is simple: Cosby escaped the plantation. He needs to be made an example pour encourager les autres.
two even went on to have consensual relationships with him.
????
Isn't "spanish fly" supposed to be an aphrodisiac, not a will-inhibitor or general intoxicant or coma-inducer?
While drugging anyone in any manner against their will or without their knowledge is wrong, it does seem like the two things being compared here are ... not very comparable?
(If "Spanish fly" actually worked, all it would do is make a man or woman aroused. It seems like that ought to be thought of at least a little differently than incapacitation, does it not?
What Mary Beth said, in other words.
I would hope that even when both are wrong acts, one might think that stimulating sexual arousal such they might desire sex is less wicked, by far, than incapacitating someone in order to take advantage of them.)
How is Cosby's bit any didfferent than the song Love Potion Number 9 or Funky Cold Medina?
Accusers tell stories that after having a drink with cosby they felt drugged and confused as he had his way with them.
Could be him drugging them. OR they could be describing getting drunk after drinking booze.
Even if it's not true it still show's a lack of conscience to run a comedy routine from it - even in those long ago free wheeling day's of the 60's - Right Noah?
By that token then every play, book, movie, television program or other work of literature or art that featured a character trying to find an aphrodisiac or love potion would show a “lack of conscience.”
Like many others, I've hoped this isn't true. However, I think the overwhelming evidence is that Cosby is an abusive man. Don't forget that he had at least two documented affairs and the most recent allegations have been fairly specific.
Even if all the sexual assault stuff is true, we've always known this is how things work in "casting couch" Hollywood, haven't we? Which has to mean there are other reasons Cosby is being targeted.
And are we allowed to mention that Barbara Bowman was willing to put up with all he allegedly did to her because of her career ambitions? Which he put an end to when he ended their relationship. At least that's what I take away from what she relates in this video interview.
I understand about High Tech lynchings of black politicians always charged with revelations of stories of Sexual Lust in the first degree. I Remember my harmless friend Herman Cain. I remember Justice Thomas.
But Cosby is not a black man active in politics. He is more of a strange comedian who looks and acts 90% white.
Like many others, I've hoped this isn't true. However, I think the overwhelming evidence is that Cosby is an abusive man. Don't forget that he had at least two documented affairs and the most recent allegations have been fairly specific.
Question: if an alleged rape victim’s past sexual history is generally considered irrelevant as to whether or not s/he was raped, why would an accused rapist’s alleged history of infidelity be relevant?
Like many others, I've hoped this isn't true. However, I think the overwhelming evidence is that Cosby is an abusive man. Don't forget that he had at least two documented affairs and the most recent allegations have been fairly specific.
Question: if an alleged rape victim’s past sexual history is generally considered irrelevant as to whether or not s/he was raped, why would an accused rapist’s alleged history of infidelity be relevant?
I thought I knew all sexual terms but digital penetration is a new on.
tits.
The dogs that don't bark. When Michael Jackson, Mike Tyson, O.J. Simpson, et al. were arrested, there were many people who jumped to their defense and claimed the charges were trumped up. There seem to be more white people willing to give Cosby the benefit of the doubt than there are black people who consider this some kind of racist persecution......By the sleeping dogs shall you know them. Can anyone name a Hispanic celebrity or activist who spoke out on behalf of George Zimmerman's innocence?
"Their accounts included similar details: Cosby took them under his wing and, on multiple occasions, fed them alcohol laced with drugs and assaulted them."
The whole thing is very creepy but ... multiple occasions?
The Spanish Fly was a myth that we teens kidded about back in the day.
I am from Philly too but 15 years or so younger than Cosby so maybe it was one of Philly's urban legends.
Therefore, I don't hold much stock in any theories connecting the idea of the Spanish Fly to Cosby's alleged acts.
Bill Cosby is a vile piece of shit who deserves to burn in Hell.
What he did as Dr Huxtable is beyond forgiveness. He used child abuse as a comedic premise. In so doing, he gave too many dads permission to abuse their children. After all, if it was acceptable behavior from the "Cos", how bad could it be.
It would have been better if he had beaten Theo with a stick every episode.
Fuck Bill Cosby and all his fans.
I used to be a huge fan from the early I Spy days up to The Cosby Show. Funny, creative, witty, intelligent, I loved his comedy.
He has done many good works since but they can never atone for his 8 years of making child abuse "cute".
John Henry
re the current allegations, I call bullshit. You can't come back, 30 years after the fact like this.
If he assaulted her, she should ahve gone to the cops at the time. Ditto all the other women now making claims.
Too late now.
Even if it is the vile Bill Cosby he deserves some fairness in this.
John Henry
"two even went on to have consensual relationships with him.
????"
Sounds like Anita Hill. At least Cosby didn't marry a white woman.
No black man shall be allowed to express opinions not permitted by the NAACP.
William,
Cosby does not have a PhD. He has an EdD.
Nowhere near as rigorous (being granted by a school/dept of education) and requires about 2/3 the work of a PhD.
It makes his Huxtable gig that much worse. They don't teach much in Ed Schools but they should have taught him about child abuse.
He can't claim ignorance.
John Henry
When I was a kid, the urban legend was that a guy took some chick out on a date. He wanted to get lucky so he slipped her some Spanish Fly.
He went into a convenience store to use the restroom and buy some condoms while the Fly went to work. When he came out of the store, she had gotten so horny that she impaled herself on the stick shift and fucked herself to death.
I swear ... I think it happened to a buddy's first cousins brother ... or something.
Cos left the plantation, called out bad behavior in the black community and now has to pay the price for that. Fin.
I don't know if the allegations are true or not. When I hear of more women coming forward to claim unproveable charges years (or decades) later, it reminds me of an old story. A city bus driver was involved in a minor accident. While waiting for the police to arrive, he refused to open the doors. When the cops asked him why he wouldn't let anyone off the bus, he replied, "I was keeping any more 'victims' from getting on the bus."
Just because someone makes an allegation, it doesn't mean it's true. The burden of proof isn't on the accused, or at least, it isn't supposed to be.
Like everyone else here I don't know whether or not these allegations are true. I hope not but suspect they are.
It all sounds like typical casting couch stuff, which is to say there were probably some women willing to go along with it in order to have a shot at the big time, which doesn't make it even remotely OK and which makes me wonder about parents of girls who were underage.
And for those who suspect that Cosby's political/social views have triggered an outing of bad behavior: I doubt it, because who would benefit? Maybe he doesn't get the wink and coverup treatment that others might get...but so what? The system that supports rape and abuse is vile, and if some people get away with it that is evil and it's odd to single out such people for hypocrisy instead of focusing criticism of the evil itself.
I think Cosby should get advice from Bill and hire Hillary as his lawyer, and I am sure this will go away as quickly as that Roman Polanski unpleasantness did. Except Cosby has the wrong politics to get away with rape.
I had heard that Spanish Fly worked on men more than women. It irritated the urethra, causing a constant warm fuzzy buzz down there, that sort of translated into sexual arousal.
CStanley:
"for those who suspect that Cosby's political/social views have triggered an outing of bad behavior: ... Maybe he doesn't get the wink and coverup treatment that others might get...but so what? ...if some people get away with it that is evil and it's odd to single out such people for hypocrisy instead of focusing criticism of the evil itself"
As one of those people, let me clarify: If he did it, and I really hope he didn't, no, he does not deserve a wink and a coverup. He deserves to be prosecuted.
No cry of hypocrisy here: If he did it, that's what matters, not why it was swept under the rug or why it's coming out now. I suspect his heterodoxy is linked to its coming out now, but I couldn't agree with you more that that is peripheral.
Spanish fly is the secret ingredient of Ersatz Bros. Coffee.
Its got zest appeal.
"EXCLUSIVE: 'I wanted to arrest Bill Cosby - I thought he was probably guilty': Former Pennsylvania DA investigated comic for rape of college basketball star but there wasn't enough evidence to charge him
Andrea Constand claimed Cosby drugged and attacked her at his Philadelphia home in 2004
She launched a civil suit against him and settled out of court in 2006"
We are not talking about unknown accusers coming out of the woodwork. We are talking about at least a dozen women, over three decades, all known to have been closely associated with Bill Cosby, all claiming that he offered them help with their careers, got them alone, drugged them, and raped them.
Face it, Bill Cosby is a dirtbag serial rapist. God only knows how many women he has drugged and raped. He put up on his website that "these charges were discredited long ago". Then Constand's attorney called his attorney, and they had to revise that statement.
And no, "Spanish Fly" has nothing to do with any of this. Spanish Fly is a urinary tract irritant, made by grinding up a beetle.
Dozen-plus? Pfui. I would guess you could find forty women willing to accuse Cosby of rape. That would definitely prove the case, and we could string him up right away.
"I'm Brian! and so's my wife!"
"He deserves to be prosecuted."
Would you mind sharing how this is to be done ?
He's an old man and vengeful groupies and lefty race hustlers are going to punish him for what he said about black society.
This gives a whole new meaning to the term "Cosplay".
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No jokes here. Admired his early comedy albums. Sadly for all involved, I think there is fire behind the smoke.
Weird question came to mind while reading this (and other articles on this subject); juxtaposition, maybe. This made me think of the Robin Williams suicide -- probably something about what troubles may hide behind a funny facade.
Guilty or not, I hope someone has put him under a suicide watch. Unless we just want a reason to further debate whether suicide is ever rational...
Duh we all know she wanted it.
Gently, my friends, I'll let you in on a secret: were these strumpets to be non-strumpety there would be no problem.
The strumpetness derives from basic unsaid truths: drunk women love fucking.
Sober girls not so much.
*Now that I've whupped the fuck outta any other contributions from "people" who virtualize themselves in drop-hat velocity per names on Althouse's screen, I can say it ain't much.
But I can now say it's less than much.
I put betamax in a small, tiny box.
Not because there was another world out there, NO: no other world.
I put beta in a box because that's where the semen extracts.
This isn't a joke.
Slut cunts waiting for fucks are just as credible as am I.
From the always-credible Urban Dictionary:
Cosby Sweater:
The sexual act of eating Fruit Loops, Fruity Pebbles, Trix, and Boo Berry- or any other 'bright, colorful' breakfast cereals- and then vomitting the tacky, dazzling mixture onto your partners chest. The result should look similar to the incredible sweaters that Bill Cosby wore during his highly successful 1980's sitcom "The Cosby Show".
Don't ask how I knew about that.
I am Laslo.
garage mahal said...
As Limbaugh said, it was a long time ago! Sheesh
LOL
That's a riff off of Ezra Kleins comments on the Constitution as well as half the obama admin types who use it to quell discussion on any subject uncomfortable to them.
Not surprisingly I'm sure your Media Matters link didn't mention that.
When allegations like this pop up from decades ago that don't seem to have been reported to authorities and that no one else can corroborate with any solid evidence, I withhold any judgement against the accused.
Lately, there is a sexual witch hunt going on that has been fabricated by the institutional left and it may well be that these ancient accusations of wrongdoing against Bill Cosby have no substance.
This is terrible, because either Cosby did all that he's accused of, or he's being viciously smeared. I've always like Cos, so I'm hoping it's the latter.
My partner dealt with Cosby a lot several decades ago, when he was playing in Vegas. She would help get his family in and out of the hotel w/o exposing them to the public. Etc. And, visited the family a lot in their suite. Her sister was along on multiple occasions, and would have willingly let him take advantage of her. But for both of them, nada. He was her favorite celebrity, out of quite a few visiting and/or performing there, and one of the reasons was that he never, ever, was anything except proper with her. No propositions. No suggestions. Nothing. Just the good family guy that he played on TV and stage.
I have been hearing the Cosby stories for the 15 years since my partner and I got together. She is adamant. That isn't the Cosby that she knew and remembers so fondly.
We are talking about at least a dozen women, over three decades
The plural of "accusation" is "accusations".
Not "evidence".
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"I thought I knew all sexual terms but digital penetration is a new on."
You've never heard of putting a finger in a bodily orifice? Finger fucking? This is really a new term to you?
Apparently Don Lemon is getting grief on gawker for telling someone she could have used her teeth to prevent oral sex with cosby. Her response was that she was too stoned to think of that.
Janice Dickinson has also thrown in.
This story is weird.
Quaestor,
"Cosby escaped the plantation."
Zedediah Grimm,
"Cos left the plantation,..."
The “organic” black conservative tradition: conservatives who favor hard work and moral reform over protests and government intervention, but whose black-nationalist leanings make them anathema to the Heritage Foundation and Rush Limbaugh. When political strategists argue that the Republican Party is missing a huge chance to court the black community, they are thinking of this mostly male bloc—the old guy in the barbershop, the grizzled Pop Warner coach, the retired Vietnam vet, the drunk uncle at the family reunion. He votes Democratic, not out of any love for abortion rights or progressive taxation, but because he feels—in fact, he knows—that the modern-day GOP draws on the support of people who hate him. This is the audience that flocks to Cosby: culturally conservative black Americans who are convinced that integration, and to some extent the entire liberal dream, robbed them of their natural defenses.
I think a lot of these women had sex with Cosby when they were drunk, or stoned. And now many of them are saying to themselves, retroactively, "hey, maybe he put something in my drink!"
Here is Joan Tarshis. She is now sure that Cosby raped her, 45 years ago.
But read her account. Here's how she described the assault:
The next thing I remember was coming to on his couch while being undressed. Through the haze I thought I was being clever when I told him I had an infection and he would catch it and his wife would know he had sex with someone.
That seems to me a very honest account. Who would make that up? She's intoxicated, he wants to have sex with her, she says she has an infection.
That sounds like truth to me. And then she says this.
But he just found another orifice to use.
That's her description of a rape?
If somebody forcibly violated me, that's not the way I would talk about it.
To me this is a valid question. Why didn't you bite?
The answer is that at the time, she did not perceive this as a rape. It was sex, drunk sex, unhappy sex. And she's participating.
And she's blaming the drugs for it now, 45 years later. "He drugged me and made me do this."
To me the most damning part of her statement is her attitudes after the alleged attack.
When we got to Westbury and he went on, there was no seat for me. I stood in the back of the theater with his chauffeur, feeling insulted that I wasn’t respected enough to be given a reserved seat.
That is not the way a rape victim talks or acts. You do not get mad that you did not have a "reserved seat" so you can watch your rapist do his comedy routine.
It's appalling that she's using the word "rape" so glibly here. 45 years later you discover that he put something in your drink? And it's possible that he did. That's the horrible thing about this, we don't know.
I had heard and/or strongly suspected I was not the only white girl he had drugged and raped but I never had any proof.
This blatant appeal to racism does not make her more credible, in my opinion.
I certainly think Cosby had sex with a lot of women who were not his wife. And a lot of them were drunk and/or on drugs at the time. And he probably told a lot of them lies about helping them become an actress.
So there's a lot of anger from people about the way Bill Cosby treated them. (And contrast that with his nice comedy routine, it must be infuriating). But this sort of anger can lead people to make false rape accusations. Or to not care about truth as much as they should.
To me this is a valid question. Why didn't you bite?
I think there are a lot of valid answers to that question, but 'I was stoned' is not necessarily one of them. Unless he actually drugged her. Which, we don't know exactly.
janice dickinson said he gave her a pill and a glass of wine, which she took. I just don't know what to do with that!
And he probably told a lot of them lies about helping them become an actress.
And that gets into casting couch stuff, which is more to me a quid pro quo situation, which is not rape exactly. Rape is a word that means something serious, and we should use it correctly. If you slept with someone to further your career, that's not rape. That may be persuasion and it may be illegal, but it's different. Ugh. What a mess.
"To me this is a valid question. Why didn't you bite?"
Well, it's a valid question--as are almost all questions in a matter like this--but I think the fact that a victim didn't resist (or even was "too stoned" to resist) doesn't prove it wasn't rape. Sometimes fear of the rapist or even a revulsion at mutilating someone (even if that someone is raping you) could prevent such a thing. Of course I've never been raped, so I can't imagine what I'd do in a situation like that.
I don't know whether Cosby ever raped anyone, and he's never been found guilty, but it doesn't look good for him that so many have come out accusing him. (Granted, some, like the Michael Jackson accusers, could be opportunists wanting fame or money, or are just grinding an old axe over something else) At this stage I don't think we can be certain either way.
But like in Ferguson and Trayvonville, I'm sure everyone can pronounce absolute judgment that conveniently fits their preexisting notions.
Caution: Trolls feeding.
I agree with St. Croix. and Shanna in that no one in these stories comes off looking good.
On another note, I find it creepy that some of the guys here have made a distinction between Spanish Fly effects and other types of date rape drugs that knock a woman out. Like it's not so bad if someone gives you a drug that makes you feel horny, instead of going limp.
On the other hand, maybe it's a peek into the male psyche. I wonder if some men feel like their own sexual urges aren't under voluntary control so that they feel entrapped by women (responding to sexual attraction to a body even though they have no desire for real intimacy with the woman.) If that's the case then I guess I get why it doesn't seem that wrong to give a drug to a woman to make her susceptible to the same phenomenon.
Michael K,
"He's being punished for commenting on the futility of black victimology."
Why would a conservative,…consistently insert hard right wing views into the mouth of Bill Cosby?
White conservatives so poorly understand black people, they never quite understood Cosby or the organic black conservative tradition he was speaking out of. That tradition argues traditional conservative "up from your bootstraps" ideology, but has no real interest in acting as foil for white conservatives who want to downplay racism. When I interviewed Cosby back in 2007, he mentioned that his presence had been requested on Fox more than a few times, but that he'd declined. Cosby, and his black admirers, saw him in the tradition of Booker T. Washington, not Herman Cain.
This is an uncomfortable fact for white populists who'd like to use Cosby as a mouthpiece--or maybe not. If he won't say it, they'll just pretend he did. When you see stuff like this you get some insight into the support for Herman "I don't be reading" Cain.
Ruining someone on accusations, believing accusations, and bringing up old routines that have nothing to do with anything is stupidly "All American".Believe accusations from male-female-female-male without proof, because of what you've heard and read,... well I can only hope you get what you give.
Meh.mthis was probably considered kind of edgy in 1969, a little taboo, transgressive. It was also self effacing, since he portrays the intetest in @Spanish Fly" as, to my ear, as a rather pathetic thing. Yeah, it sounds prophetic now,mif the accsations are true. But I think people are seeing too much into this bit.
I thought Crack had self-quarrantied?
@Laslo Spauta: You should not have deleted your 5:58.
Well, it's a valid question--as are almost all questions in a matter like this--but I think the fact that a victim didn't resist (or even was "too stoned" to resist) doesn't prove it wasn't rape.
Right. As I read her piece and think about what she's saying, she didn't perceive the sex act at the time as rape. She's saying he drugged her drink, and that made her consent. And yes, that would qualify as a rape, absolutely.
The question reporters should be asking is in regard to the alleged drug in the drink. How many drinks did you have? Were you taking drugs? The drug-in-the-drink is her primary accusation, I think.
it's a valid question
Note that many feminists think it's not a valid question and they tried to destroy the reporter for asking it. He was forced to apologize. For asking a question!
I despise feminism.
And note the reporter is playing the victim card to avoid losing his job. "As a victim myself..."
This urge to have no trial, the assumption of guilt, the mob--I see feminism as the biggest threat to civil liberties.
I don't think the biting question is fair. Are there other crimes where it is fair to ask why a victim didn't use every possible avenue of self defense, including some that would provoke rage in the attacker when there is an asymmetry of strength and size between the victim and attacker? When a storekeeper is held up at gunpoint, do we ask why he or she didn't spray mace in the eyes of the assailant whose gun barrel was inches from him?
Biting the penis of a sexual aggressor sounds like a good defense until you think about what would come next. Unless the victim can clearly plan a rapid escape during the brief moment between the time the attacker recoils in pain and the time he responds to it, it is not a sensible strategy.
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