May I humbly request that this be retitled to 20 Things New Yorkers Older Than 30 Have Experienced? Most of these are from the late 90's or close by and as a 33 year old New Yorker I've experienced...There was this lovely camaderie between 81-year-olds:
My heart aches to know so many things about New York City are gone forever. My father was born in Yorkville and my mother on Wooster Street in the Village, which is now part of NYU dorms. Saw my first play, The King and I, at the St. James and realized, at 18, that Yul Brenner's baldness could be very sexy. Worked five years in the Woolworth Building downtown, which once was the tallest building in the U.S. For seafood you couldn't beat The Captain's Table in the Village, and for chicken pot pie, The Waverly Inn, also in the Village. Pork chops on an open grille? Peter's Backyard on Tenth Street. Ice skating in Rockefeller Plaza on Saturday mornings and then on to the Automat for those little brown pots of baked beans. I stayed at the Barbizon Hotel when it was still "women only." I have traveled around the world, working for four airlines, and New York City thrills me to this day when I fly over it (not sure if you can still do this after 9/11). Anyone care to guess my age? It is 81! Oh, and I was born, of all places, in Brooklyn!And:
I'm also 81. Lived in Yorkville, the Village, East Village, finally Soho. Left in 1970. My favorite at the Waverly Inn was the veal ala marsala, $2.Hey, they are contemporaries of Holden Caulfield! It was the mention of ice skating in Rockefeller Plaza that made me think of this. Caulfield is a fictional character, but we may say that he was "born," nonetheless, and calculate the year as 1933, which would make him 81 today, if he stayed alive. In "Catcher in the Rye," we see his New York City, presumably the city of those Buzzfeed commenters.
Would Holden Caulfield have read Buzzfeed... and commented?
Did Holden Caulfield ever eat the veal ala marsala at the Waverly Inn? What did Holden Caulfield eat in "Catcher in the Rye"? There's breakfast:
I had quite a large breakfast, for me — orange juice, bacon and eggs, toast and coffee. Usually I just drink some orange juice. I’m a very light eater. I really am. That’s why I’m so damn skinny. I was supposed to be on this diet where you eat a lot of starches and crap, to gain weight and all, but I didn’t ever do it. When I’m out somewhere, I generally just eat a Swiss cheese sandwich and a malted milk. It isn’t much, but you get quite a lot of vitamins in the malted milk. H. V. Caulfield. Holden Vitamin Caulfield.Now, there's a thing New Yorkers did and will never do again: worry about being too skinny. And if you're worried about getting fat, consider the Holden Caulfield diet, just a Swiss cheese sandwich and a malted. In fact, after that skating at Rockefeller Plaza, Holden Caulfield does eat a Swiss cheese sandwich and a malted. Another Holden Caulfield diet idea is be depressed:
So I went in this very cheap-looking restaurant and had doughnuts and coffee. Only, I didn't eat the doughnuts. I couldn't swallow them too well. The thing is, if you get very depressed about something, it's hard as hell to swallow.
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I absolutely refused to read The Catcher in the Rye. I've always regarded it as too expected of one at at certain age to be something other than evil incarnate.
I also have a J.D. Salinger voodoo doll that gets a pin through the eye from time to time.
There is one thing that any New Yorker of any age can still do and always will, apparently, on into perpetuity -- and that is to think that they are the center of the universe.
And there is a thing that most of us not from New York do when they are treated to this slop -- and that is to yawn. New York ain't all that.
Re: "Would Holden Caulfield have read Buzzfeed... and commented?"
He would have his own blog, furiously concentrated on the injustices in the world.
Not getting a huge following, he would then also comment on a more popular blog and harangue the people there for not seeing these injustices.
At first it would be sorta humorous, but after a while it would grow old and repetitive, with the vitriol predictably rising in relationship to those who do not share his concerns equally.
Eventually Holden would become resentful of the popular blog's host or hostess, because he or she did not conform to what he saw as important over everything else, and thus is perceived as 'phony'.
That's what I think would've happened.
“All morons hate it when you call them a moron.”
― J.D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye
I'm guessing there's damned few readers today of The Catcher in the Rye who pick up that in talking about "H.V. Caulfield" Salinger was making a witty allusion to H.V. Kaltenborn.
Carol_Herman, please pick up the white courtesy phone...
Carol_Herman, please pick up the white courtesy phone...
Found her!
Phonies
Mark immediately exhibits NYC penis envy LOL.
You could do this for at any random 15-20 year interval -- I miss Schrafft's from when I was a kid, and you can't go shopping at Gimble's, May's, B. Altman's, Alexander's, Korvette's, S. Klein's or Abraham & Straus' anymore, either. And if you talked to New Yorkers in their late 70s-early 80s, they could probably tell you how much easier it was getting uptown and downtown on the east side of Manhattan before they took the Second and Third Avenue els down and replaced them with nothing.
So the post is an interesting laundry list of things that have disappeared in the past 25 years. But 25 years from now you'll be able to write up another list with 20 completely different things.
I absolutely refused to read The Catcher in the Rye.
I didn't read it until the kids brought it home while in junior high. I don't think I would have understood it in junior high. I had very little perception of mental illness as a 13 year old.
As J.D.Salinger was fond of saying when asked the meaning of "The Catcher in the Rye"
" When I wrote it god and I knew what I meant. Now god only knows."
Boy, what a bunch of whiny crabapplage! Sheesh...things change! Deal!
I'm sending my son a link to this post to share with his (not legally sanctioned by the state) wife, who recently delivered a beautiful baby girl, whose, the wife's not the baby's, favorite novel is, Catcher In The Rye.
I never lived in NY but I did something on my very first visit there New Yorkers will never again be able to do - have a drink at Windows on the World.
I remember the marvelous view very well. And how excited I was, at age 22, to be there.
I also found a little black Ralph Lauren dress at on the clearance rack at Bloomies. I paid $15 for it and it was my favorite item of clothing for the next decade. Finding a great dress for $15 was quite an accomplishment even in the early '80's.
I could say many of the same things (or similar) about growing up in Chicago. Also, I have lived in southern California since 1956 and Los Angeles is not the same city. I have a theory that, if ever life expectancy is increased to over 100, a lot of people will not want it. Too much changes and not for the better.
Of course, the Democrats may not be in charge forever.
I saw that Buzzfeed article, and it resonates with me. The art bar Max. Fish, on Ludlow, (down the block from the famous Kat'z Deli on Houston), included in the article, used to host annual cartoon shows, curated and organized by my friend Danny Hellman. I had art in these cartoon shows for several years running.
This past Friday evening, friends and I were meeting on E. Houston to attend a Halloween Haunted House, and it was one block east of Katz's. I would never have recognized where I was if not for Katz's. We wandered around looking for a place to eat before going to the haunted house, and we found a place called Sweet Chik, which serves fried chicken with waffles (in various ways) as their house specialty. As we were being seated, I looked around the interior, which seemed strangely familiar. I asked the waiter if the place had once been part of Max. Fish. He answered that it had been Max. Fish. I was startled, as, in its new incarnation, it seems smaller than it had. I realized this had to do with the changed interior, of course. The fixtures in the bathroom are the same, however.
It's shocking to me how that area is being transformed. I miss it as it was.
My parents took me to an Automat in the early 1970s.
The food was...not...good.
Must have been some sort of Depression-era nostalgia trip for them.
There's one in the brilliant Woody Allen movie Radio Days.
There is one thing that any New Yorker of any age can still do and always will, apparently, on into perpetuity -- and that is to think that they are the center of the universe.
And there is a thing that most of us not from New York do when they are treated to this slop -- and that is to yawn. New York ain't all that.
It is the self-centeredness, the narcissism, of New Yorkers, and wannabes that turns me off. Haven't been there for 20 years, and hope that it is another 20, at least. Millions of angry people packed together like sardines, living in filth, and losing the fight with the rats. At least our vermin here (deer) are edible.
"Of course, the Democrats may not be in charge forever."
They're not in charge now, and neither are the Republicans when they're in office.
Wall Street and the big banks are in charge.
If either party ever decides to sever itself from the purse strings of Wall Street and the big banks, (it'll happen the day after monkeys typing the complete works of Shakespeare shit pigs that fly), maybe the parties will act according to some coherent set of party principles or precepts, but that's not happening now. Of course, the Republicans have traditionally been the party of Wall Street, so they are serving their historical role now in their service to the wealthy elites. (The Dems became shadow Republicans under Clinton.)
"Millions of angry people packed together like sardines, living in filth, and losing the fight with the rats."
Bruce, it's obvious you haven't been here in 20 years, and weren't really here when you were. NYC is far cleaner today than 20 years ago, and was cleaner 20 years ago than 33 years ago, (when I moved here). We are a crowded city, but I find the density of population in a city is stimulating. Characterizing New Yorkers as "angry" is inaccurate: New Yorkers are just as nice and hospitable as people anywhere, but simply more forward and blunt about their opinions.
"the Republicans have traditionally been the party of Wall Street, so they are serving their historical role now in their service to the wealthy elites. (The Dems became shadow Republicans under Clinton.)"
Cookie, I even agree with part of what you say. In the past the GOP was the party of business and Wall Street but crony capitalism, also know as "state capitalism" or, colloquially, as "fascism" has become far more profitable as government becomes the arbiter of success or failure.
Republicans are overwhelmingly the party of small business now. Look where the Democrats get their money. Look where Obama sounds his time.
The Tea Party is where the Republicans of small business are today. Vilified as the UKIP party is in Britain but representing the little guy, as Democrats once did.
Democrats today are an amalgam of public employee unions, blacks, open borders Hispanics and big business cronys. The urban whites of San Francisco and New York are also members but on social issues.
Obama spends his time. Damn autocorrect !
Democrats today are an amalgam of public employee unions, blacks, open borders Hispanics and big business cronys. The urban whites of San Francisco and New York are also members but on social issues.
This is why I needle that latter group when I can. Their numbers are largely fed from the heartlands and they are largely fed crap which they regurgitate.
Robert Cook has it right. New Yorkers are as nice as southerners. They are direct but generally very polite and helpful. I love the city and go ten or fifteen times a year. I have never had a bad experience with the locals.
He is wrong about Wall Street running the place and he would want to get out of there quickly if the banks decided to move to Dallas or Atlanta. It would be a ghost town and not in a good way.
Except for family, I've pretty much fallen out of love with going back to New York. All the bookstores and most of the restaurants, dives, etc., I loved in the 70's are long gone, most of the arts and literary types I knew dead or moved, and what has replaced them is mediocrity, pretense and plastic. Even the grungier parts of NYC are missed. There will never be another grindhouse theatre on 42nd or scary used magazine store on 8th Avenue...
I used to go to New York monthly in my 20's. We would party in Boston and drive down around 10, stay until 6, and drive back.
I go only 4-5 times a year.
I worked for a publishing subsidiary of Time Warner and was able to travel there every month when I was in my 20's. I thought I wanted to live there in the late 90's, was offered a job, but decided I wanted to keep my car and be able to get out of the city.
A couple of friends of mine, in their early 40's just moved there for jobs. They have a 700 square foot loft in SOHO....with their two border collies-price tag-$5900-sorry I couldn't do that.
Who moves to NYC in their 40's?
kiss kiss.
The greatest tragedy of the "new" New York is the disappearance of bookstores, record stores, and indie and repertory cinema houses...but this is a result of real estate prices and the digital delivery of media.
What "scary used magazine store on 8th Avenue" are you referring to, Richard McEnroe? Was it on 41st, on the south side of the Port Authority? That's the used magazine store on 8th Avenue, (actually, just OFF 8th Avenue) I was aware of. I didn't find it scary, though, just totally great!
Also, in the late 90's the gay New Yorker was seriously pumped-I did not want to deal with that competition.
Seriously pumped is now just one of the gay characteristics today-there are so many.
But back then it was either seriously pumped or invisible.
kiss kiss.
Robert, that's the one! And while it wasn't scary like the ones around the corner, if for some reason you dug deep enough you could find some very socially questionable material, thank God.
There were a couple of others as you headed uptown...
I miss my youth, I don't miss the city of my youth. I remember when subways weren't air conditioned. After they got air conditioning, they became a magnet for graffiti artists, panhandlers, and the homeless. The subways have gotten much better in my lifetime, but the stairs are much steeper.
I've lived in NYC for 40 years. Never wanted to move here after law school, but the offer was too good to turn down. Now I can't imagine living elsewhere. It's not for everyone, but no place is.
Newcomers are always surprised at the odd kind of neighborliness that characterizes NYC. It's a collection of small hamlets, where you get to know people living there by sight, and meet them by some connection. -- kids attending the same school, at church or some equivalent, working in the same building or office, or you go to the gym at the same time, things like that. Often you don't know their names, or perhaps just a first name. And the connection often doesn't extend beyond the location that defines it -- at the gym, for example, I know lots of regulars by sight, a few by name, and we're friendly. But it's not often a friendship that carries on outside the gym. Stronger connections are built up slowly.
Because it's a densely populated place, natives respect each other's space, both physical and psychological, and are reluctant to intrude unless invited.
So, not for everyone. But based on my experience it works just fine.
Well, I wouldn't want to be 81 (yet) but I envy those who were young adults in NYC's post-war heyday. Like Titus, though perhaps for different reasons, I prefer the Boston of today to what I've seen (admittedly little) of the NYC of today. As for funky book and record shops, these things still abound in the smaller cities.
He is wrong about Wall Street running the place [NYC]
If it weren't for the income brought in by the investment banks NYC would a poverty-stricken hellhole. New York used to be a center of manufacturing, but not anymore. The Garment District is a mere shadow of its former glory. After Wall Street the next biggest income producer is the tourist trade -- hospitality, restaurants, Broadway, etc. Big Law used to headquarter in the Big Apple, now it's an outpost city with the hq's centering on DC.
The grit, not to say filth of those days is a little overrated, Mc. Plenty of new restaurants replaced the old. We are not some Sunshine or Smallville frozen in amber. Maybe you're just getting old. Get off our lawn! :)
New York is great. New York is not perfect. New York is one of the best places for people to live if they have a shit ton of money that they somehow get past the tax regime there.
Other places are good too, and so many smaller cities have their own specialized charms that match the tastes of their residents. But if your tastes in life are catholic, New York is easily a top 3 city in the West, maybe the world, and I am not sure who comes in higher.
That being said, thousands of people leave New York for good every month.
New York's new mayor is working to bring back some of that 1970s urban-decay ambience.
Due to tech changes, it'll look somewhat different this time around (e.g., porn's not going to crawl out of the internet and back into 42nd St theaters).
But, "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose." Or something.
"(Cook) is wrong about Wall Street running the place [NYC]."
I didn't say Wall Street runs NYC, I said it runs this country. Our respective political parties participate in a charade of democratic representation of the people, but the true and only constituents being served by Washington are the big banks, financial institutions, corporate behemoths, and Wall Street.
The rest of us are rabble to them, (to the wealthy elites and our purported representatives alike), to be pandered and lied to as long as that suffices to keep us quiescent, to be spied on now, and to be violently crushed under heel if that becomes necessary.
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