Althouse: "Obama Mulls Massive Move on Immigration."

July 29, 2014

"Obama Mulls Massive Move on Immigration."

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

103 comments:

Guildofcannonballs said...: Won't millions of new citizens increase income inequality, assuming they don't have wealth or income near the American mean?

I was told Obama didn't like income inequality. Just what the Hell is going on here?; 7/29/14, 8:43 AM
Gahrie said...: At this point Obama is actually trying to goad the Republicans into impeaching him.; 7/29/14, 8:52 AM
Mark said...: "Ooooh, let's make the idiots impeach!"

Sometimes you get the impression what's best for the United States isn't the top priority for a lot of these folks.; 7/29/14, 8:55 AM
wendybar said...: Yes, Obama is redistributing OUR wealth. He is spreading it throughout the world, yet you won't see him suffering....just the middle class. He is an elite donkey.; 7/29/14, 9:05 AM
rhhardin said...: It puts some strain on the female default foolishness that he means well.; 7/29/14, 9:11 AM
jacksonjay said...: Let's see? First he said he couldn't, now he says he can. Sounds about right.; 7/29/14, 9:13 AM
Nonapod said...: I guess Obama feels his only chance in November is if Republicans attempt impeachment. That way he could cast himself as the hero challenging a racist system, a hero who just wants to help millions of downtrodden refugees get a better life, a hero up against a bunch of evil, xenophobic plutocrats without hearts, who eat babies too.; 7/29/14, 9:16 AM
Brando said...: If he does this, Congress can vote to overturn this action, and get every red state Democrat on record to either support the effort or support the president.

Somehow I doubt he'd do anything this sweeping--most of his "governing by pen!" efforts have been small-ball, applying only to federal contractors--but he may surprise me.; 7/29/14, 9:24 AM
Paul said...: I'll ask the question again..

Is Obama on crack or meth?

The Constitution clearly states all immigration legislation is the providence of Congress.

And the idea of importing millions of illegal alien children (what next, Chinese, Indian, African children boarding trains?) just does not seem to make sense.

We do have finite resources and to say South American children are somehow in more need to escape violence than, say Bangladeshi children or Zimbabwe children is just ridiculous.

Impeach Obama? Yea if he keeps this up and Republicans win the Senate by a serious margin for he seems INSANE.; 7/29/14, 9:33 AM
Larry J said...: Legal immigrants like my wife are chumps. They could've avoided all of the hassle and expense of legally immigrating to America and becoming citizens by just ignoring the law and demanding it all be given to them. When my wife signed her green card (which isn't green) paperwork, she had to declare that she was ineligible for any form of public assistance. Furthermore, if she applied for public assistance of any kind for any reason, she could be deported. Like I said, she must've been a chump. She could've came here illegally and demanded free stuff.

I'm in favor of regulated and controlled legal immigration. It's the ones who come here illegally and start making demands that I oppose; 7/29/14, 9:37 AM
Anonymous said...: I'm beginning to wonder if the now-obscure term "defenestration" will be making a comeback.; 7/29/14, 9:43 AM
Birkel said...: At what point do the LIVs recognize this is all an unconstitutional power grab?

The next Republican president had better have a plan for firing every Executive Branch employee who has violated the Constitution. Civil service protections cannot stand when those protected are systematically undermining civil rights!; 7/29/14, 9:49 AM
James Pawlak said...: Another violation of the Constitution: Perhaps of Article-III, Section-3.; 7/29/14, 9:59 AM
SteveR said...: Why do anything sweeping, the status quo is working out fine? All this talk is to get the impeachment buzz going.; 7/29/14, 10:11 AM
Hagar said...: What is even richer, is that Juan Sanchez from Durango, Colorado must pay out-of-date tuition to go to Arizona State, and if he needs assistance, he is told to go back to Colorado and apply there, while Juan Garcia from Durango, Mexico, gets to pay in-state tuition, and hey, anything else you need, compadre?

This is lunacy.; 7/29/14, 10:17 AM
Achilles said...: He will make a couple small moves then say the evil republicans wouldn't let him do more. If the Republicans weren't so bad at this Obama wouldn't be president.

We deserve what we get for electing these people. The veterans this country are screwing wasted their efforts on an electorate capable of voting for Obama and Boehner.; 7/29/14, 10:18 AM
paul a'barge said...: Obama is trying to provoke Republicans to impeach him.

It's all he has left.; 7/29/14, 10:37 AM
Anonymous said...: He might also be appealing to the Lefty base enough to keep 'em activated, but not enough to go full La Raza.

He often lets others do the activating, getting emotional and gathering support for a cause he wants to push, then he steps in as the point-man, the Great Compromiser and voice of reason who can deliver the legislation, and if not that, the executive orders.

Perhaps it's all been one big beer summit and perpetual campaign. Great photo ops. The voice of 'his people' at the table. Activism as a vehicle for social change and justice. The seas healing. The world more peaceful and democratic.; 7/29/14, 10:37 AM
Sam L. said...: "Massive Move" means bowel movement to me, and we KNOW Bama's gonna dump a huuuuuuuge load on all of us.; 7/29/14, 10:39 AM
Anonymous said...: First he writes his own DREAM legislation for children.

Now he appears to want to expand that to everyone who is here illegally.

After allowing dreamers to stay, we have a crises on our border of women and children flocking to the United States.

sarcasm -- We can't possibly foresee what will happen with illegal immigration if Obama expands this to all illegals. -- /sarcasm

You know, I have never believed that Obama wants to intentionally destroy the United States of America as we know it.

If he does this, I'll have to reconsider.; 7/29/14, 10:40 AM
traditionalguy said...: So Obama plans to declare no borders exist for the USA. Poof, they are gone.

He is baiting the GOP into impeachment before November 2014 elections.

That show how smart Boehner was to sue Obama instead of accepting the impeachment remedy as the GOP's only option.; 7/29/14, 10:41 AM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: Meanwhile 87% of Americans see the current "border minors" as a "serious problem." And three fourths want them ALL sent back immediately. I'm sure his fellow Dems presently scheduled to lose in November will appreciate this bonehead illegal move from the Chief Executive. Brilliant.; 7/29/14, 10:42 AM
Bill, Republic of Texas said...: "Furthermore, if she applied for public assistance of any kind for any reason, she could be deported."

I don't think this is correct. I know green card holders can get food stamps and wic and maybe medicaid but I don't remember .

You or whoever sponsored your wife would have signed a form promising to reimburse the government for any public assistance obtained by the immigrant.; 7/29/14, 10:50 AM
Curious George said...: "acksonjay said...
Let's see? First he said he couldn't, now he says he can. Sounds about right."

Well, he couldn't do it when it would have fucked up HIS election chances, so played it coy to get the Hispanic vote.

As a lame duck he can now burn the country down. And so he shall.; 7/29/14, 10:56 AM
garage mahal said...: So Obama plans to declare no borders exist for the USA. Poof, they are gone.

The House GOP cuts Obama's $3.7 billion border funding request down to $659 million. What gives?; 7/29/14, 11:02 AM
The Drill SGT said...: jelink said...
I'm beginning to wonder if the now-obscure term "defenestration" will be making a comeback.; 7/29/14, 11:02 AM
Paul said...: "You know, I have never believed that Obama wants to intentionally destroy the United States of America as we know it."

Really? What part of "fundamentally transform" don't you understand?; 7/29/14, 11:02 AM
Clayton Hennesey said...: Sometimes becoming President is just the shortest route to the first tee at Rancho Mirage.; 7/29/14, 11:03 AM
Michael said...: He is not going to do anything of consequence. He is going to make a big speech. He is mulling it over even now. It will be a speech about children and fairness and freedom and children and badness down south. It will be a speech about "going to" do something big, something fucking momentous. There will be a sentence or two in carefully rehearsed Spanish.

Do people who want to become citizens of the United States come from England or France or the Netherlands or Germany or Sweden or Norway or Argentina or when we talk about "immigration" are we really only talking about Central Americans and Mexicans? The rest of them, the ones who are educated, who can read and write and have skills, have to get in line?

"massive move on immigration" would not have anything to do with the actual laws of the United States relating to the rules of who can come and go and stay.; 7/29/14, 11:06 AM
kwenzel said...: Awesomely awful attempt at alliteration.; 7/29/14, 11:06 AM
Hagar said...: I do not know what the current law provides, but in the old days it was as Larry J. says. Everybody concerned had to sign that they clearly understood that if I ever got to be a burden to the American taxpayer, I would be promptly deported back to my country of origin, and my American sponsor (who presumably would still be within reach) would be billed for any expenses incurred by the U.S. Gov't in that regard.

(I then thought this was a little rough, since I thought it really meant forever, but I now understand it really meant until/unless I became a citizen.); 7/29/14, 11:13 AM
George M. Spencer said...: He's a genius.

He and his party are going to take the short-term hit in popularity and in the fall elections (they were already in trouble); long term, it's great for the Dems. as most of these illegals will vote Democratic.

It would be interesting to see if they are being deposited in GOP dominant areas.; 7/29/14, 11:14 AM
David said...: Once again inviting the Republicans to sue or impeach him. Don't bite, Republicans. Let him destroy himself if he choses to.; 7/29/14, 11:16 AM
Tyrone Slothrop said...: The Republicans would be the least of Obama's worries if he were to do this. I see two million people assembled on the National Mall demanding his resignation. I think O's team has totally misjudged this, and congressional Republicans, for all their ham-fisted political ineptitude, know enough not to interrupt him while he makes a huge mistake.; 7/29/14, 11:22 AM
Seeing Red said...: Since our southern border is essentially open, why do we need DHS? Or TSA? Cut the budget.

There is nothing to protect we aren't providing for the common defense, so time to disband.; 7/29/14, 11:25 AM
Curious George said...: "garage mahal said...
So Obama plans to declare no borders exist for the USA. Poof, they are gone.

The House GOP cuts Obama's $3.7 billion border funding request down to $659 million. What gives?"

Border funding request? LOL Nothing about the request has to do with "the border". It's Obama Open Border funding. It's Obama Illegal Immigrant funding.

I wouldn't provide a nickle.; 7/29/14, 11:33 AM
YoungHegelian said...: The Children's Crusade on our border, and the issue of illegal immigration in general, are two issues where there's a massive disconnect between what our betters think & what the folks at large think. This will not end well for anyone involved --- the politicians, the immigrant hordes, or the American people.

A reason that I haven't seen mentioned as to why support for the illegal immigrant children among Hispanics is so low is because most American Hispanics are of Mexican descent, and the latest wave is almost completely Central American (Guatemalan, Honduran, Salvadorean). There's no love lost between Mexicans & Central Americans, as shown by how horribly they get treated by Mexicans at the southern border & along the journey. If you're an American Latino activist spouting propaganda to the gringo MSM, it's all one big raza de oro family. On the street & in the barrios, it's a far different reality.; 7/29/14, 11:38 AM
wendybar said...: If he is so worried about "the kids" going back to their homes because of violence, WHY hasn't he helped the kids in Chicago, where he supposedly used to live???; 7/29/14, 11:39 AM
Gahrie said...: The House GOP cuts Obama's $3.7 billion border funding request down to $659 million. What gives?

That wasn't a border funding request. That was a "let's hire more governmental employees and resettle the illegals in the United States faster" request.; 7/29/14, 11:40 AM
Gahrie said...: At what point do the LIVs recognize this is all an unconstitutional power grab?

Never...that is why they are LIVs.; 7/29/14, 11:42 AM
alan markus said...: Didn't get a chance to comment yesterday on the impeachment post, but I think Stilton Jarlsberg nailed it as to motivation:

Uncle Ream Us; 7/29/14, 11:54 AM
Michael K said...: "The House GOP cuts Obama's $3.7 billion border funding request down to $659 million. What gives?"

They want to cut the amount for housing and benefits for the new Democrats. Personally, I would be in favor of first class air fare for each of them back to the country of origin. It would be cheaper.

I wonder if this will backfire on the dims.; 7/29/14, 12:00 PM
n.n said...: Obama hits another mulligan. Forty percent of the crowd cheers with fanatical fervor.; 7/29/14, 12:03 PM
who-knew said...: Garage,
the 3.7 billion is to facilitate getting the minors settled in the U.S. where they will conveniently forget to show up for their immigration hearings so they can stay here. Obama and Holder will make no effort to enforce the law to prevent that. If the money was really going to be used to control the border and enforce the law, he'd probably get 3.7 billion and even more.; 7/29/14, 12:15 PM
Sal said...: "Sometimes becoming President is just the shortest route to the first tee at Rancho Mirage."

It seems the people who get to spend the most time on the golf course are golf pros, retirees, and President of the United States.; 7/29/14, 12:24 PM
garage mahal said...: As a lame duck he can now burn the country down. And so he shall

Then why in the hell wouldn't Republicans impeach him? Or would you prefer standing around whining while the country burns? Some defenders of the Constitution you turned out be.; 7/29/14, 12:25 PM
Anonymous said...: "Really? What part of "fundamentally transform" don't you understand?"

I've always considered Obama to be lazy. Lazy in his leadership and lazy in his thinking. He wants to be President but he doesn't want to do the work of the presidency. I have never even thought of him as particularly ideological.

Instead, he is more of a mommas boy. And he surrounds himself with powerful women who make all the decisions. They are the ideological ones. And because he just doesn't care, or worry about it, they tell him what to do and he does it.

But such an excuse for bad behavior can only go so far. He can't be so lazy or stupid not to know the effects of this on our nation, even if he is being told by someone else to do it.; 7/29/14, 12:29 PM
Meade said...: garage mahal said...
"Then why in the hell wouldn't Republicans impeach him?"

The good-faith question should be: why the hell won't the Democrats impeach him?; 7/29/14, 12:32 PM
Wince said...: garage mahal said...
The House GOP cuts Obama's $3.7 billion border funding request down to $659 million. What gives?

Obama's "border funding request"? That's an interesting spin on what the other $3 billion comprises.; 7/29/14, 12:33 PM
The Drill SGT said...: Meade said...
garage mahal said...
"Then why in the hell wouldn't Republicans impeach him?"

The good-faith question should be: why the hell won't the Democrats impeach him?

no point in putting the country through a trial and boosting O's ratings when the Senate (e.g. Harry Cowboy Poet Reid) would never ever convict.; 7/29/14, 12:39 PM
Anonymous said...: Curious George: [$3.7 billion] Border funding request? LOL Nothing about the request has to do with "the border". It's Obama Open Border funding. It's Obama Illegal Immigrant funding.

But just remember, we can't enforce immigration law or secure the border because it would cost too much.; 7/29/14, 12:47 PM
garage mahal said...: If the money was really going to be used to control the border and enforce the law, he'd probably get 3.7 billion and even

Haha. Republicans don't to fix anything. They want to fling shit and throw pity parties.; 7/29/14, 12:50 PM
Anonymous said...: Meade asks;

"The good-faith question should be: why the hell won't the Democrats impeach him?"

I actually think they might if he does this. I happen to know quite a few Democrats. We disagree on quite a lot, but on Immigration we agree.

I mentioned Obama doing something about Immigration several months ago, before the election. They said it was a right wing conspiracy theory. I said something like, "Yeah, you're probably right. But for shiggles, let's pretend it isn't. What would you do if Obama did something like this?"

The answers were different depending on who was answering, but it all came down to outrage, betrayal, etc.

Obviously, you'll get a solid 50% or more of Democrats who will stand behind Obama even if he starts murdering babies, especially if they are Republican.

But a lot of Democrats and a majority of Independents will go just as ape shit as Republicans if he does this.; 7/29/14, 12:51 PM
furious_a said...: "Obama Mulls Massive Move on Immigration."

If your current constituents don't appreciate the way you're running the country, import some new ones who will.; 7/29/14, 12:55 PM
Alex said...: I'm mulling a wipe out of Democrats this November.; 7/29/14, 12:59 PM
Alex said...: garage - do you believe in having a border at all?; 7/29/14, 1:00 PM
exhelodrvr1 said...: Once again, thanks for voting for him!; 7/29/14, 1:02 PM
Anonymous said...: That wasn't a border funding request. That was a "let's hire more governmental employees and resettle the illegals in the United States faster" request.

You can generally predict what this administration will exert effort on by asking if it increases the number or income of government employees or reliably Democratic union members. Stimulus? Kept gov't employees on payrolls through the recession. ACA? Hired hundreds of thousands of unqualified Democrats to "guide" applicants, which meant mostly talking to hoped-for voters about how much the ACA would help them, while waiting for nonworking computer systems.

As for immigration, you can be sympathetic to the kids and want to see them well-treated (a la George Will) while still being angry at the administration for signalling they would be welcomed and get benefits. About $70K per kid, to start. We can borrow more any time! As long as it means hiring more Democratic minions, it's all good.

My modest proposal: like Australia, recognize that if gov't is so lax it cannot deport someone through seven years of trouble-free, benefit-free residence here, then those people need legal residence. And make the process for legal immigration much simpler and easier for immigrants who will benefit the country -- English-speaking, younger, skilled. Make resident noncitizens and those abroad go through the same qualifications for citizenship, on the same time scale -- *fast*. While not perfect, this is fairer than what happens now, and the population of resident noncitizens would decline a lot.; 7/29/14, 1:03 PM
Real American said...: Obama is intentionally provoking a constitutional crisis and eventually a civil war. He deserves to be impeached, but unfortunately the political will to do so does not exist, primarily because the entire Democrat Party no longer cares about this country, the Constitution (which they see as an impediment) or the rule of law in general. They only care about their petty little partisan concerns.

Well, people pay attention. If following the law is for suckers, then people won't follow it.; 7/29/14, 1:10 PM
Mr. D said...: The good-faith question should be: why the hell won't the Democrats impeach him?

There's no Democratic Party equivalent of Barry Goldwater available. The historical parallel would be John Kerry; does anyone think that Kerry would be the one to go to Obama and tell him the game is over?; 7/29/14, 1:19 PM
Larry J said...: garage mahal said...
The House GOP cuts Obama's $3.7 billion border funding request down to $659 million. What gives?

Create a problem and then demand billions as a temporary fix. That's government in action folks, especially when Democrats are in charge.; 7/29/14, 1:27 PM
Bob Ellison said...: garage mahal said, "Then why in the hell wouldn't Republicans impeach him?"

Perhaps you have heard of things like politics, playing the race card, the Clinton impeachment, and such. Or perhaps not.

It's a tough world. Lots to learn.; 7/29/14, 1:42 PM
MayBee said...: This situation, like the VA situation, is a wonderful example of why you have to act preemptive y and with advance planning. Leadership.

We seem to be in a spiral of identifying a problem, waiting for something bad to happen, and then trying to solve a crisis. Leading from behind.; 7/29/14, 1:56 PM
khesanh0802 said...: I have to agree with paul a'barge, but this is so obvious that even the dumber Republicans won't fall for it. The, perhaps, "unconstitutional" actions of Obama are becoming so frequent and so well covered that I have hopes that, at least some voters, will become better educated about the rules we are supposed to be living by.; 7/29/14, 1:56 PM
MayBee said...: "Curious George: [$3.7 billion] Border funding request? LOL Nothing about the request has to do with "the border". It's Obama Open Border funding. It's Obama Illegal Immigrant funding.

But just remember, we can't enforce immigration law or secure the border because it would cost too much.

7/29/14, 12:47 PM"

And don't forget the Obama administration suing to keep Arizona from enforcing immigration laws because it is a federal responsibility.; 7/29/14, 1:57 PM
phantommut said...: Haha. Republicans don't [want] to fix anything. They want to fling shit and throw pity parties.

Because giving Obama money to fix things in the past has worked so well.; 7/29/14, 2:08 PM
traditionalguy said...: We are into a famous General's reply to which one of four Army columns he expected to capture a beseiged city with: The northern column...no, the southern column...no, the eastern column...no, the western column...no.

He answered he planned to use his fifth column.

But General, where is your fifth column?

Inside the City, of course.

The invasion of the USA's area of the UN's white occupied North American Province is being being directed from Washington DC using gate keepers ordered to admitting Central Americans.; 7/29/14, 2:24 PM
Lewis Wetzel said...: jebkinnison.com wrote:
"My modest proposal: like Australia, recognize that if gov't is so lax it cannot deport someone through seven years of trouble-free, benefit-free residence here, then those people need legal residence. And make the process for legal immigration much simpler and easier for immigrants who will benefit the country -- English-speaking, younger, skilled. Make resident noncitizens and those abroad go through the same qualifications for citizenship, on the same time scale -- *fast*. While not perfect, this is fairer than what happens now, and the population of resident noncitizens would decline a lot."

But that is not what will happen.
Remember when it was proposed that illegals would have to return to their home country and apply for legal status? No one talks about that anymore.
The pro-amnesty forces will never accept anything less than an open border.; 7/29/14, 2:28 PM
I Callahan said...: The House GOP cuts Obama's $3.7 billion border funding request down to $659 million. What gives?

Why does it cost $3.7 billion to enforce the laws that already exist, and are budgeted?

Yep, I see Garage is still mailing it in...; 7/29/14, 2:39 PM
Krumhorn said...: Scratch the thin veneer of a leftie and you'll find a tyrant screaming to get out.

Dear Leader is such a narcissist, he cannot fathom why we don't just shut up and cede to him all power and authority so he could finally fix all the world's woes.

"This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and the planet began to heal"

-Krumhorn; 7/29/14, 2:39 PM
Michael said...: Garage"
Then why in the hell wouldn't Republicans impeach him? Or would you prefer standing around whining while the country burns? Some defenders of the Constitution you turned out be.

Most Republicans are pretty good at math. That's why so many of them are rich and don't have to rely on the govt. Republicans cannot impeach the president at the current moment. We can discuss this again in Feb. of next year, however, if you are keen to proceed with encouraging impeachment.

I hear they are dropping math entirely in Wisconsin since the outcomes are so easily judged. True?; 7/29/14, 2:40 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: I live in a small city with a significant population of illegal immigrants, and so I find this issue complicated. In the interest of fairness, it seems obvious that illegal immigrants shouldn't be given a better deal than legal immigrants. On the personal level, however, would I want about a quarter of the people where I live to leave? No. For many reasons, I like living in a place with a large immigrant population, even if many of the immigrants are illegal. I also think that the governments the people have to live under in their home countries are terrible, and I think it makes sense for them to flee to the United States. There's no doubt that illegal immigration depresses wages for poor Americans, but at the same time, it certainly lifts the wages of the illegal immigrants themselves, who are also our brothers and sisters.

It is complicated. It is difficult to see the ends given any direction. On this issue, I am surprised that anyone can be fully convinced of whatever direction he takes.; 7/29/14, 2:41 PM
Brando said...: Sympathetic as I am to the kids who have become pawns in this mess, my question is how did it come about that Mexico--a country that is notoriously harsh on not letting immigrants into that country from other parts of Latin America--had all these refugees to begin with? Shouldn't our State Department be having some words with our neighbor about shoving people across our border?; 7/29/14, 3:13 PM
John henry said...: Impeachment may not be the only option. The 25th Amendment states:

Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Impeachment is not the only way to get Obie out.

I suspect that he has gotten to the point that he is seriously annoying some dem leaders, even if they won't say so.

Suppose they determine that Obie is incapcitated. Slow Joe becomes acting president with a reppo majority in Senate and House (after November).

No impeachment and Obie gone.

What are the odds that if november turns out as bad as it looks now that Obie has a stroke, heart attack or some other event that allows others to declare him incapacitated.

It might actually even be true.

John Henry; 7/29/14, 3:14 PM
Rumpletweezer said...: What would the President do differently if he wanted to destroy the country?; 7/29/14, 3:17 PM
lemondog said...: One mull and golf at the same time without causing great injury to oneself, can’t one?

Yes, Obama is redistributing OUR wealth. He is spreading it throughout the world, yet you won't see him suffering...

Recall as Senator he proposed a global tax on the US.; 7/29/14, 3:23 PM
George said...: If they do this it means they've given up on keeping the Senate.; 7/29/14, 3:28 PM
Fred Drinkwater said...: I read the comments at TPM. The near unanimous fervor for executive action is truly astounding.

“Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”
“A Republic, if you can keep it."; 7/29/14, 3:48 PM
garage mahal said...: Create a problem and then demand billions as a temporary fix. That's government in action folks, especially when Democrats are in charge.

Ah yes, the "Obama lured kids from Central America to the border" theory.

Because, heck, in 12-15 years these kids will vote for a Democrat!; 7/29/14, 4:00 PM
Anonymous said...: "it seems obvious that illegal immigrants shouldn't be given a better deal than legal immigrants. On the personal level, however"

It seems obvious because it is obvious. The first clue about your thinking should be, "On the personal level, however" which is a way to say, you're thinking with your heart instead of your head.

C.S. Lewis once wrote:

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

You would subject us to the approval of your own conscience, even though it seems obvious to you what the right thing here is.; 7/29/14, 4:14 PM
Crunchy Frog said...: Obama could get caught with a dead girl and a live boy and the Democrats in the Senate would refuse to convict.; 7/29/14, 4:34 PM
Alex said...: Because, heck, in 12-15 years these kids will vote for a Democrat!

Yeah they will and you know it.; 7/29/14, 4:43 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: You would subject us to the approval of your own conscience, even though it seems obvious to you what the right thing here is.

No, I didn't say that it was obviously the right thing to do. I said it was obviously the fair thing to do. The fair thing is not always the right thing.; 7/29/14, 5:07 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

Also, I think it is a stretch to apply this to immigration. What is the tyranny? The tyranny of allowing people to move here? (If you're referring specifically to Obama repeatedly usurping Congressional authority, I was not intending to condone that. That's bad.); 7/29/14, 5:13 PM
phantommut said...: That Obama could be elected as President is a testament to how far we've come as a country in race relations. That impeaching him would be so damaging to race relations is a testament to how far we have to go.

The simple fact is that "Fast and Furious" should have led to at least Holder's impeachment, and to Obama's if it was his idea in the first place. I would be shocked if the IRS targeting of Tea Party groups weren't blessed by Obama, and that's an impeachable offense. But it won't happen because enough Conservatives care more about the country than sticking it to the Democrats.

So we clean up the mess Obama leaves and, as some other craven people suggested we do long ago, "Move On."; 7/29/14, 5:36 PM
Lewis Wetzel said...: Freeman Hunt wrote:
"What is the tyranny? The tyranny of allowing people to move here?"

The tyranny of rule by decree and the tyranny of deposing the people and replacing them with people more freindly to the federal government.

The reason the congress hasn't moved to enforce our very strict laws concerning immigration is because the federal government is not a very democratic institution. It does what it wants to do, it's not like your local school board.; 7/29/14, 6:20 PM
Lydia said...: Fairness with regard to appying laws should not be taken lightly. Pretty much basic to the rule of law. Heck, even the United Nations agrees:

"For the United Nations, the rule of law refers to a principle of governance in which all persons, institutions and entities, public and private, including the State itself, are accountable to laws that are publicly promulgated, equally enforced and independently adjudicated, and which are consistent with international human rights norms and standards. It requires, as well, measures to ensure adherence to the principles of supremacy of law, equality before the law, accountability to the law, fairness in the application of the law, separation of powers, participation in decision-making, legal certainty, avoidance of arbitrariness and procedural and legal transparency."; 7/29/14, 6:35 PM
damikesc said...: The House GOP cuts Obama's $3.7 billion border funding request down to $659 million. What gives?

That's about enough for first class tickets back home for everybody in this crisis.

They should cut the budget of EVERYTHING. Harshly.; 7/29/14, 7:00 PM
HoodlumDoodlum said...: Freeman Hunt said...
On the personal level, however, would I want about a quarter of the people where I live to leave? No. ...
On this issue, I am surprised that anyone can be fully convinced of whatever direction he takes.

If you feel that way, vote for open borders, or amnesty, or vastly expanded immigration quotas, etc. Convince other people, vote in legislators, pass some laws, fine. But may I also have a say? May I have a vote? No? Why not?
Lots of smart people agree with the open borders position. Bryan Caplan reminds those of us who don't just how immoral we are every few minute, just in case we forget. But can we at least agree that this is a matter that should be decided democratically? Who gets to say, Freeman? Why are immigration policy or border enforcement laws or any related policies not subject to the popular will of (actual) citizens?

Does this power to ignore the laws, selectively enforce the ones you happen to agree with at any time, invite circumstances contrary to law that just happen to reinforce your position ("oh gee, did our lax policies encourage lots of people to come here? we'd better make 'em legal now!")--does that power exist ONLY for immigration? Because if not we're dealing with a rather different governmental structure than I was led to believe, and I look forward to some pretty big changes next time the folks I favor get voted in.; 7/29/14, 7:19 PM
F said...: Does Obama mull anything? Or just follow Valerie's instructions?; 7/29/14, 7:56 PM
fivewheels said...: Alliteration is the very lowest form of attempted cleverness

Oh, it's TPM.; 7/29/14, 8:20 PM
rcocean said...: "Also, I think it is a stretch to apply this to immigration. What is the tyranny? The tyranny of allowing people to move here?"

I agree. Where do you live Freeman? I'd like to move in. I'm sure you wouldn't object. After all, what's so bad about people living where they want?; 7/29/14, 8:43 PM
rcocean said...: I think anyone from anywhere in the world should be able to move to the USA. Open borders? You bet. Of course that may mean a little more crime, maybe some disease, more taxes to support people who can't work or speak English. And of course wages will be driven down and we've got unemployed Americans who won't get jobs, but hey, screw them, I'm looking out for the World!

Plus, cheap nannies and lawn care. Woo Hoo. Money in my pocket and a feeling of moral superiority. Sorry about you other Americans (*cough* losers *cough*).; 7/29/14, 8:50 PM
chillblaine said...: "I live in a small city with a significant population of illegal immigrants, and so I find this issue complicated."

Here is some clarity for you, with all due respect:

"...to accept that an honorable American identity can be born from an illegal act seems to mock the very essence of citizenship and allegiance."

Mark Steyn; 7/29/14, 10:43 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: Hoodlum, Who are you arguing with? I didn't write anything against going through proper channels to change the law.

I will say that I think it's immoral for the government to not enforce select laws for a long time and then bring them into force. That's a wide avenue for tyranny. "Don't worry about that old law. It's gone away, never enforced. (Until we want to use its power.)" Malignant governments would love a bunch of unenforced laws to suddenly snatch up political enemies with.

Rco, you think a person's house is the same as a country when it comes to someone living there? No, you don't. So why write it as if you did?; 7/29/14, 10:44 PM
Anonymous said...: Freeman Hunt: I live in a small city with a significant population of illegal immigrants, and so I find this issue complicated.

Been there, done that. Nice people, mostly. Rational actors, improving their own lives. Complicated issue? No. But I was actually paying attention to the negative consequences, short and long term, of uncontrolled immigration, which go beyond noticing that illegals can be nice people and the restaurant selection has improved.

Are we a nation or are we just a transnational flophouse and labor exchange? Do we have rule of law or shall we become, politically, a Latin American nation? Look, you can't restrict picking and choosing which laws are convenient to you ("you" meaning illegals and the people who employ/use them politically) to a designated subset of people, and expect everyone else (especially the people who are losers in the open borders game) to keep being the law-abiding chumps who are expected to maintain the old rule-of-law society that attracted immigrants in the first place.

On the personal level, however, would I want about a quarter of the people where I live to leave? No.

That's nice, Freeman. I find that many laws interfere with what I like. I'm delighted to know that I can now ignore them. Because, you know, on a personal level...

I also think that the governments the people have to live under in their home countries are terrible, and I think it makes sense for them to flee to the United States.

For the love of everything that is holy, Freeman, you're an intelligent woman. I am genuinely astonished to see you parrotting these mindless-tool talking points. Billions of human beings live in "terrible" places. A lot of them much worse than Mexico and the Central American countries where most of the illegals here come from. Can they all come here? Why not? I'm sure most of them are decent, hard-working people. Sure, there have been huge structural changes in the economy, the prospects for the unskilled are only going to get worse, not to mention that house of cards that funds the welfare states of the developed nations.

There's no doubt that illegal immigration depresses wages for poor Americans...

And who are we to let those losers interfere with your moral preening? For heaven sakes, why should they, as, you know, American citizens, get to interfere with the immigration (non)policy preferred by the people who are not only not sacrificing anything by the influx, but benefiting from it?

...but at the same time, it certainly lifts the wages of the illegal immigrants themselves, who are also our brothers and sisters.

Yes, I remember the usual libertardians and econo-tools attempting to peddle this flop-sweating, transparently dishonest "moral" argument a few years ago, when the "new economy" wasn't delivering as promised.

I wish them well, Freeman, and they're "my brothers and sisters" in that moral space of the largest of the concentric circles of responsibility that constitute the normal human life, i.e., my family, my extended family, my neighbors, my fellow citizens. But there is something profoundly perverted in the notion that the American middling/working classes have some sort of universal moral responsibility for every human on the face of the earth, that their own wealthy classes, in the places where they come from, don't.

It is complicated. It is difficult to see the ends given any direction. On this issue, I am surprised that anyone can be fully convinced of whatever direction he takes.

It isn't complicated, Freeman. The huge illegal population now in this country, and the current orchestrated "crisis", is the result of quite straightforward self-interest and corruption, unconstrained by any national feeling (or shame) in our political class. (In collaboration with the political class of the "feeder" nations.); 7/29/14, 10:53 PM
Chris Lopes said...: "(If you're referring specifically to Obama repeatedly usurping Congressional authority, I was not intending to condone that. That's bad.)"

That's exactly the issue in this case. Because the president is so bad at actually working with people to get things done (also referred to as governing), he is now forced to use undemocratic means to get his way. If this were simply a conversation about who should be allowed to come here and who shouldn't, I'd be on the side of letting people in. Unfortunately, the president does not choose to have that conversation. In fact he doesn't seem to want to have any conversation.

The danger here is that we have a man in charge who no longer cares about the niceties of democracy, only getting his way. That's exactly what some of us who voted against his reelection were concerned about. Given the arrogance he displayed in his first term, we had very little faith that a second term (where he no longer had to worry about pleasing voters) would improve the situation. We were right.; 7/29/14, 10:57 PM
eddie willers said...: The fair thing is not always the right thing.

Poll:

1. Oxymoron
2. Paradox
3. Cognitive Dissonance
4. Stupid; 7/29/14, 11:07 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: I am genuinely astonished to see you parrotting these mindless-tool talking points.

Parrotting? From where? I haven't heard them. I'm expressing my own thoughts shaped by living in a town with a lot of illegal immigrants.

I live in the main illegal immigrant area of the city. We let people live here for years and years and years and then we're going to say, "Go home." "Psych! We were just playin' for the last decade. Get out." Their kids are often American citizens. I think it's more complicated than people on both sides are pretending.

I agree that things have gotten to this point purely through corruption.; 7/29/14, 11:24 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: I'll add that I'm 100% against a guest worker program.; 7/29/14, 11:28 PM
google is evil said...: This proves once and for all that Obama is a mean cold son of a bitch! I say this as someone who has supported comprehensive immigration reform, long before the One even knew what a Mexican or Hispanic was.

By implementing this with out supporting legislation that normalizes, or at least makes an effort to normalize, movement across the border, two things will continue to happen. More people will die, and more Hispanics will make the difficult trip to the US and live as second class citizens.

If O actually cared about this, he could have led the way to help pass Immigration reform in 06, 07, 08, 09, or 2010. But why did he wait until he was upside down politically. He likes to call Republican's racist, and so does Harry and Nancy, but I ask why do they support a system that will only insure more people die in their effort for a better life.

The Republican's are on the verge of passing what he wants. But like a child he wants it now and will throw a temper tantrum if he doesn't get it now. So instead of waiting and being patient he must insure the maximum pain for the most small gain!

As I said. This is a full display of harsh insanity.; 7/30/14, 12:11 AM
Joe said...: Here's a theory: Obama wants to be impeached.

This will make him a martyr. He will be able to shout that he was just trying to help people but all those mean Washington insiders stood in his way!

Interestingly, this fits the profile of someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.; 8/4/14, 12:17 AM
Rena Singaporian said...: how Obama Mulls Massive Move on Immigration please describe us?

Migrate To Singapore | Read Our Company; 8/4/14, 12:22 PM