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৮৮টি মন্তব্য:
And we have our new Charles Lindbergh, except without the contributions to science and aviation or, I suspect, the quiet recantation of the embrace of Fascism as its full horror came to be revealed.
Buchanan isn't just the new Lindbergh but a poor shadow of one.
That's not exactly right. Sodom, and Gomorrah, normalized dysfunctional behaviors. In fact, they held parades to celebrate their hedonistic lifestyles. Other than during an occasional parade, the West prefers to hide, bury, flush their dysfunctional choices. Is it still socially acceptable to hold pro-choice rallies?
Marxism-Leninism is not dead. It's alive and well in US academia.
Dead faith?
Just visit any American college campus. Marxism is alive and well.
"Step into my parlor said the spider ..."
If you drew a Venn Diagram, there would be far more overlap with Putin and Stalin than with Putin and Solzhenitsyn.......Also leftists might want to consider the possibility that Marxists are far more homophobic than Christians.
Eh? That sound? Oh, yeah, Lenin, rotating at 700 Ruskies Per Minute...
Putin is the "Fredo" here... "It was you Vladimir....all along"
“With Marxism-Leninism a dead faith, Putin is saying the new ideological struggle is between a debauched West led by the United States and a traditionalist world Russia would be proud to lead,”
Shocking. Who says Marxism-Leninism is dead? When did the left die?
" It’s quick and bone-chillingly mad. A student of history, Buchanan knows that the bloodiest regimes of today and yesterday, all of which were obsessed with avenging the imagined slights of the past, draped themselves in the trappings of religious symbolism."
I'm sure an expression of traditional religious values is indeed bone chilling to a leftie. How can the author possibly claim to know that "as a student of history" Buchanan knows that "the bloodiest regimes of today and yesterday, .... draped themselves in the trappings of religious symbolism."? The bloodiest regimes by far were the avowedly atheist Marxist Leninist regimes in Russia, China, and Cambodia.
"Buchanan knows this. But his distaste for a country he no longer recognizes has led him to cast his lot in with America’s enemies. What a truly sad end to the career of someone who once considered himself a patriot."
If a country has been so transformed that it is no longer recognizable, is it still the same country?
My take on Putin is that he is a shrewd operator who sees the United States and Europe falling to the same leftie fanatics who murdered millions of Russians, tortured and starved millions more, and who left the country broken and impoverished. He is not trying to destroy our civilization but is smart enough to take advantage of the wreckage. Who can blame him?
Lars beat me to it.
On the whole the US is a highly immoral society. Debauched: indulging in or characterized by sensual pleasures to a degree perceived to be morally harmful; dissolute.
Once again, nothing says American patriotism quite like praising a kleptocratic Russian autocrat.
How does Putin explain all the porn produced by Russians?
" Other than during an occasional parade, the West prefers to hide, bury, flush their dysfunctional choices."
Ask Brendan Eich about that.
We of the USSA don't have to visit a college campus to experience Marxism. We've got SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, public education and EITC to keep us fully socialist.
Buchanon is projecting, I think.
@Lars/Paul,
Marxism-Leninism is not dead. It's alive and well in US academia.
Guys, I've gotta disagree with you here. Marxism, in any sort of classical form that prioritizes class struggle, is basically dead. Yes, there's the CWP & there's a few academics who are classic Leninists or Trotskyites or what-not, but, as a social force, it's dead.
The post-Marxist Left, which takes lots of assumptions from classical Marxism, is very much alive & kicking. The "Identity" Leftism of our day (e.g. oppressed groups such as blacks, gays, women, indigenous peoples, etc) would make a Marxist of the old school barf his cookies. If you're outside of the bourgeoisie or the proletariat, you're lumpenproletariat, and you're one of history's losers.
a student of history, Buchanan knows that the bloodiest regimes of today and yesterday, all of which were obsessed with avenging the imagined slights of the past, draped themselves in the trappings of religious symbolism.
Well, Buchanan may be a student of history, but, sadly, Mr. Rothman isn't.
In the tally for the bloodiest regimes in human history, "trappings of religious symbolism" plays absolutely no part. Matter of fact, the leading contenders worked overtime to strip themselves of any such "trappings".
Buchanan says these things for the shock value. If he started to be sensible his invitations to comment would dry up. He is the class clown.
Fortunately Buchanan isn't on the ticket or is ever likely to be on a Republican ticket. He is one guy that would make me God forbid consider voting for a Democrat. Putin is just another Russian autocrat, he isn't on God's or anyone else's side, only his. While Buchanan does have somewhat of a point regarding Western Debauchery the former KGB man and would be fascist isn't a solution to any problem.
We are kind of debauched. If that word has any meaning. If we're all libertines then, whatever.
A traditionalist world where surface level morality tries to cover up a deeply rotten reality in which corruption and despotism reign free.
anyone who doesn't think Vladimir Putin is an old style stalinist is fooling themselves. Including himself!
America isn't more debauched than before, it's just more transparent.
I wouldn't trust Buchanan to know that god or which god is on anyone's side.
Why not link to ol' Pat himself instead of to an interpretation of him by a devotee of the Frankfurt school Critical Theory precepts of Cultural Marxism?
Faith in Marxism only seems to live in places that have never lived under it like the U.S and most of Western Europe. Notice how quiet the usual suspects are as Venezuela circles down the crapper? "Who me? Never even hear of Hugo Chavez. Besides, he never properly implemented Marxism in the first place. Doesn't count"
While I'm not sure Russia is likely to succeed at leading such a struggle, a revolt against the decadence of the West by those on the outside is a real possibility. Heck, with Islamic radicals as exhibit one, it's already started.
The faith is being shouted down. It's not dead.
So Putin is peddling Marxism combined with traditional Christian values? Why do I expect that this particular Dodo ain't gonna fly?
Buchanan is saying what many people have noticed since Obama has surrendered the reality based world leadership stage to Putin.
Putin can playing the easiest hand to play which is one that values the stability of Eastern Orthodox religious traditions.
Obama opened the way to Putin by lying about everything all of the time just to enjoy watching the USA's slow motion destruction...which is what Lenin's guys always wanted to see.
Evidence that Putin is a Christian? Evidence that Putin believes in God?
There is no end to world leaders who aren't so fond of God but are happy to use Him.
It's good that someone will pay a senile old man for his scribbling.
What we are seeing in Russia is a man who has a clear idea of how he would like to expand Russia's influence, and territory, when given the opportunity. As I said yesterday a tsar is a tsar. Their policies have always been expansionist and their mindset suspicious of the "West".
Our "leader" compares very unfavorably to that since he has seems to have no clear ideas except, unfortunately, how to win elections. He certainly has no convictions.
Lindbergh is an apt reference except that he had a much greater following than Buchanan will ever have.
Putin's using the old "Holy Mother Russia, the Third and Eternal Rome" gambit used to justify Russian imperialism since forever, united with a revival of the Marxist-Leninist stand against "bourgeois-capitalist decadence" (that is, homosexuality).
Lot of negative comments on Buchanan. I find him one of the more interesting commentators and this was one of his better columns. As any good Marxist knows, religion is the opiate of the people. If running a country only involved mastery of domestic politics Putin would be a great leader. Unfortunately for him this is probably the least important quality in terms of his country's fate and his own long-term reputation. Russia is truly cursed.
Russia has long seen the West as the bearer of cultural and social disruption. That goes back long before the communist revolution tothe days of feudalism and serfdom.
The theology of Eastern Orthodox Christianity accepts without dispute the authority of the creator God and his Son's authority contained in sacraments of the Holy Church. The Son and the creator God are seen as one.
On earth Church authority comes first, Rulers authority come second and and believers authority comes by receiving the Priests administering sacraments.
What's so hard to see in that. It worked well for 1500 years, and Putin wants to win this game.
Does anyone remember Telephone--the game played around the world, in which one person whispers a message to another, which is passed through a line of people until the last player announces the message to the entire group. Errors typically accumulate in the retellings, so the statement announced by the last player differs significantly, and often amusingly, from the one uttered by the first. Reasons for changes include anxiousness or impatience, erroneous corrections, and that some players may deliberately alter what is being said to guarantee a changed message by the end of the line.
That is what we have going on here.
Buchanan does not think God is on Putin's side. Buchanan said that Putin thinks God is on his side. But Rothman, he needs clicks, so he deliberately changed what Buchanan said.
So why are we talking about Buchanan anyway? Because Eich gave Buchanan money in 1992. And what better way to confirm that Eich is a bastard deserving to go than say that Buchanan is nuts as well.
"If running a country only involved mastery of domestic politics Putin would be a great leader."
How would you know ? Russia is a gas station with a foreign policy.
If running a country only involved mastery of giving speeches Obama would be a great leader.
Joe:
Should he murder the flesh peddlers and their "willing" victims? Should he murder the abortionists and their contractors (aka "mothers")? I think the prevailing thought by rational individuals is tolerance when possible, but not normalization, unless it has a redeeming value to society or humanity.
Putin is not God, and he exhibits no pretense of being a mortal god. He is neither communist nor socialist. Russia is distinctly capitalist, with the usual exceptional corruption common to all human enterprises.
In any case, Russia did not become an issue until it protested NATO's invasion of Libya, diplomatic and material support for a "civil" war in Syria and other "Arab Springs", and staged a coup in Ukraine.
Make life, not abortion.
Carnifex: anyone who doesn't think Vladimir Putin is an old style stalinist is fooling themselves.
Sure. But he's able to successfully play the traditionalist card because much of what he says about "Euro-Atlantic" countries is the simple truth.
Including himself!
I doubt he's fooling himself about anything. Western leaders, on the other hand...
AReasonableMan:
Marx was wrong. Religion is merely a coherent moral philosophy. The problem is Marxism, communism, socialism, and similar "secular" philosophies, which promise instant gratification without accountability, and impose their principles through coercion. It is actually dissociation of risk and reality that is the opiate of the masses.
However, the real problem is the Marxists, communists, and socialists, that maintain false pretenses of representing people equally, while consolidating capital and control under their minority rule. Even reverting to aristocratic practices of disarming the common people, and nurturing self-defeating behaviors such as abortion.
Laika's Last Woof: And we have our new Charles Lindbergh.
Except that even the old Charles Lindbergh wasn't the cartoon Lindbergh you're invoking.
...the quiet recantation of the embrace of Fascism...
Lindbergh was a patriot, and no more of a "fascist" than millions of other Americans of his day, including his detractors and slanderers.
Putin is no Saul and there is no conversion on the road to Damascus. Scratch the surface and he's still KGB. Case in point, his masterful assumption of the role of a Biblical prophet.
Buchanan? Didn't he write a book many years ago about the demographic hole the West and Russia have fallen into? IIRC, the book is The Death of the West.
Reading Buchanan is worthwhile; amongst the outrageous assertions there are some unpleasant truths.
The best explanations I've heard involve the following, but I'm sure I'm missing a lot:
1. Putin is trying to rebuild a Russian etho-nationalist empire. 'I am a Russian' means not just national allegiance, nor an older generation with living memory and nostalgia for the Soviet ways, but a deeper identification of Russian-ness with ethnic components and deep history and purpose.
2. Birthrates are low, Muslims are breeding a lot and China looms. Oligarchs dot the land and have their own aims. It's tough at the borders. The thing is barely keeping together, so it's time to reassert the strength available to keep it together, Putin-style
3. Europe is strung out on gas, and the Eurocracy relatively weak. AMerica's withdrawing and still poking its eye in the affairs of Russians. Screw them, and take advantage of what can be taken advantage of.
Iran talks-Nuclear Iran is generally a threat, but play this for all it's worth.
China-The frenemy of my enemy is kind of my friend, for now
Syria-Let it fester, for now.
International Community-Screw it! Screw your missile defense. Screw NATO.
Sanctions: I guess we'll see what happens. Pivot if necessary.
Could we take the Baltics?
If Buchanan shows too much more enthusiasm for foreign authoritarians, he's in danger of being given his own column in the NYT.
Michael K said...
How would you know ? Russia is a gas station with a foreign policy.
If running a country only involved mastery of giving speeches Obama would be a great leader.
You are such a dummy. You have no coherent point and just string together a few non sequiturs.
My limited understanding: Marxism is actually pretty coherent economics in many places, even if oft proven wrong, but it's a theory of history, not a moral theory.
It is a specific prediction of how history will unfold given its response to rapid industrialization, severe dislocation and an Enlightenment synthesis of ideas.
Marx was a pretty first-rate thinker.
Marxist ideology can act like a religion, in that once taken on board, it purports to give the Marxist a 'true' account of reality and events unfolding according to dialectical progress and a possibly teleological end point to history.
This is also why this ideology can be so dangerous, because it seeks supplant the sciences, history, art, religion etc. and even hints at a possibly violent means to do so.
It has a definite crude appeal to some people, because it continues to promise liberation from some oppressive force, and many people in the world live under the oppression of many forces and/or in grinding poverty.
This is also why it stays with us...and with us...despite its horrendous track record and questionable epistemological foundations
--------------
As to the Soviets, their leadership was just f**king HARD-CORE, because to get anywhere in the Duma or in the Soviet system, you were basically a survivor. A tough-ass bastard.
Think Stalin or Brezhnev. They ate people for breakfast.
They were running the camp in the real world that led to 'liberation' and the coming paradise.
n.n, understand sarcasm any?
Buchanan hasn't seen a proto-religious-despot that he hasn't liked. He's a fascist and about as genuinely conservative as Obama.
I only wish my house was a Gomorrah. It's not fun being a monk.
Last comment, I promise.
And many feminists, social justice types, liberation theology types, soft Marxists and/or social democrats, total moral relativists, historicists etc have usually adopted SOME of these ideological elements but not all.
'It's not race, it's class.'
'Corporations and/or capitalism are going to fail any day now'
'Absolute equality is next, or possible, against oppressive forces. History is progressing to a possibly knowable point.' Positive and/or social justice is possible and desirable.'
'Progress is possible in all areas of life, the moral, the ethical, the political, the scientific, the social sciences etc.'
'The Patriarchy did it to you...'we've overcome religion, religion is evil'
Many of these ideological elements lead to collectivism, group-think, ever-greater intrusion into people's lives with the State, secular moralism, nannyism, true-believing idealists and ideologues.
This no longer liberal, as I understand it, and needs to be constantly monitored in order to maintain our liberties.
n.n. - once we have the ability to encode perfect humans in the lab, what is the point of your outdated morality?
AReasonableMan said...
Michael K said...
How would you know ? Russia is a "gas station with a foreign policy.
If running a country only involved mastery of giving speeches Obama would be a great leader.
You are such a dummy. You have no coherent point and just string together a few non sequiturs."
The irony. It shimmers in the aether.
Paradise the Lord and pass the ammunition. Putin got "saved". Thanks to this guy and those like him. Good work! Spread the love.
@Anglelyne:
The Lindbergh I'm invoking, cartoon or not, is the one painted by his own words.
But while I'm not nearly so forgiving of Lindbergh's prewar flirtation with Fascism and open embrace of anti-Semitism as you apparently are, I do recognize in the end he earned his forgiveness, and I don't think even at his worst he was ever intentionally unpatriotic.
The point I made which you seem to have missed is the very one FDR made when he refused to give Lindbergh a high-profile position after Pearl Harbor: Lindberg was a defeatist convinced freedom had made America too weak to beat the Nazis. Americans would prove him wrong then, just as we will prove Buchanan wrong now.
We didn't beat the Nazis by accepting their premise that freedom was decadent and joining them in burning jazz records. Always remember that: in the end jazz played while Dresden burned. This isn't just about Putin but the Ayatollahs and their Fatwahs, too: all the enemies of our freedoms: jazz played while Dresden burned. How many would we kill to protect Salman Rushdie? More than our enemies are willing to let die, almost certainly many, many more.
Pacifism is weak and decadent; freedom is not. It would be a mistake to confuse one with the other. If freedom led inevitably to pacifism why did jazz play and Dresden burn? Free people will fight for their freedom just as surely as those whose minds are enslaved by Fundamentalism or Fascism will fight to take it away. We beat the Nazis by having a greater appetite and aptitude for killing for the things we believed in than they did for theirs. So long as people will fight for their freedom, freedom is not weakness; freedom is strength.
The Lindberghs and Buchanans of the world have in common with the Khomeinis and Putins an inability to learn that lesson. I have no use for any of them. People are going to die for Salman Rushdie, and there's a really good chance none of them will be named "Salman Rushdie". Anwar al-Awlaki said he'd kill Molly Norris, but he ate a drone instead. Molly is still alive. Maybe if there were some kind of folk wisdom, "Bees will kill more beekeepers for honey than vinegar," more people would understand and put a little more faith in the fight for freedom.
Alex:
Once, we have the ability to enslave human beings, what is the point of your outdated morality? This is the traditional standard, right? Human lives which are interchangeable and disposable. Actually, that's also the modern standard of "diversity".
So, Alex, do you respect individual dignity? Do you recognize intrinsic value, or do you regard human life as a commodity? As for the "perfect human being", I am not invested in the mortal god/gods paradigm. It is logically incoherent. Perhaps if we each had a universe unto ourselves.
Anyway, let's drop the childish expressions, and discuss the issues as they are, and not as we imagine them to be.
Joe:
Buchanan a fascist? Perhaps.
Why do you consider Putin to be a despot? Has he ignored or abused the Russian constitution? Has he exercised power which was not granted by the people? Has he circumvented the democratic will? He seems quite moderate in temperament and actions. Even after suffering provocation in the Syrian "civil" war, and now the coup in Ukraine.
As for religious, everyone is religious, if perhaps selectively. Whether the philosophy is dictated by faith, or rational expression, every group set standards and limits for behaviors. The atheist pseudo-religion left the 20th century littered with the dead and broken bodies of hundreds of millions of men and women, and several hundred million more blocking the toilets.
Marxism is a religion disguised as a political system. Islam is a political system disguised as a religion.
Alex said...
I only wish my house was a Gomorrah. It's not fun being a monk.
4/6/14, 4:46 PM
________________________________
We all figured your house as a Sodom.
Alex said...
I only wish my house was a Gomorrah. It's not fun being a monk.
4/6/14, 4:46 PM
________________________________
We all figured your house as a Sodom.
Putin may be right about our degradation,but that says nothing of his own malevolence.
And so, isn't it just another critique of the US from the left where he uses our words against us?
It's kind of ironic that he is the one pushing traditioanalism, considering he's such a communist.
But, Stalin pushed nationalism when he needed to go to war, so we shouldn't put it past leaders like that using whatever gets the votes.
Internally the left is attacking our traditonal values and replacing them with libertinism, and externally the left is attacking us for abandoning our traditionalism.
Its just more attacks from the left.
I don't know that Buchanan is saying we should take Putin as his word, only that he is using traditionalism becasue, frankly we're not.
When's the last time you heard leadership invoke our traditional values.
If you hear gays talk about our values christians are one stop short of the Taliban, and us not allowing gays to marry is the equivalent of slavery.
He's seeing that the left is flogging itself to death over how evil it is, and he's filling in the vaccuum.
Damn the left, yet again.
cubanr wrote:
Putin is no Saul and there is no conversion on the road to Damascus. Scratch the surface and he's still KGB. Case in point, his masterful assumption of the role of a Biblical prophet.
Agreed. Only, even though Buchanan is saying that's what's happening (assuming the role of the biblican prophet) I'm not sure that Buchanan is saying he thinks Putin is genuinely a christian leader.
He's just showing how Putin is manipulating sentiment here, and here and here. (And perhaps wishing that we had leaderhship that would genuinely invoke that same sentiment here as well).
Michael K wrote:
If running a country only involved mastery of giving speeches Obama would be a great leader.
Why? How many good speeches has Obama actually given? He's one of the worst speech givers of any modern president. Even George Bush gave a better speech.
Seriously, he comes across with no charisma at all, and his delivery is boring. His voice is flat. He's not funny. He has no gravitas.
Listen to Kennedy say "Ask not what you can do for your country" and you can hear someone who knows how to give a speech.Obama simply does not have that ability.
Clinton had it, Kennedy had it, Reagan had it. Obama? Not even close.
If you say God is dead you can't argue that God is on your side. If you say traditional values are shit, you can't really say you stand for them.
"...the quiet recantation of the embrace of Fascism..."
Angelyne - Lindbergh was a patriot, and no more of a "fascist" than millions of other Americans of his day, including his detractors and slanderers.
---------------
Lindberg was always a patriot 1st. Before WWII, he reported to the US Army on the details of the German, British, and Soviet warplanes. Im WWII, he made enormous contributions to the war effort by fixing B-24 production problems, figuring out how Marine Corsair pilots could take off with double the previous max combat ordnance load, and achieving a 40% increase in range of the P-38 through a variable leaning control for carbeurators he devised.
He also flew 50 Pacific Theater combat missions as a civilian, defying the Roosevelt Administration. Pilots he flew with testified he was the standout in courage, patriotism, and flying skills.
After WWII, he was "politically rehabilitated" by Eisenhower and made a brigader general....who helped construct the present day USAF structure and USAF Academy program.
Certainly did more than any Neocon crying "Munich!" as a blank check for wars of adventure...or past "American Empire through endless war" persons did - to show by example what courage and patriotism was all about.
AReasonable man wrote:
As any good Marxist knows, religion is the opiate of the people
Or opium. Or bread and circuses, Or class warfare. Or the internet. Or pornography. Or atheism. Or environmentalism. Or egalitarianism. etc etc etc. All opiates.
Laika's Last Woof: The Lindbergh I'm invoking, cartoon or not, is the one painted by his own words.
But while I'm not nearly so forgiving of Lindbergh's prewar flirtation with Fascism and open embrace of anti-Semitism...
And if you add a bit of selective quoting to that big block of turgid neo-con cant you spewed above, and double-down on the presentism, you'll have no trouble convincing stupid people of his pivotal role in the Great Plot Against America.
The point I made which you seem to have missed is the very one FDR made when he refused to give Lindbergh a high-profile position after Pearl Harbor:
And, my goodness gracious, who could possibly dispute FDR's opinion of Lindbergh?
Lindberg was a defeatist convinced freedom...
Blah blah blah yeah, I guess that's why he went and flew combat missions in the Pacific as a civilian after FDR put the kibosh on renewing his commission.
Paul Zrimsek,
If Buchanan shows too much more enthusiasm for foreign authoritarians, he's in danger of being given his own column in the NYT.
Oh, never mind that; he's already had a few years guesting on the San Francisco Chronicle Op-Ed page. They will take absolutely anyone who is against the Iraq War. At least, they would, pre-2009. At that point poor Pat became rapidly dispensable again. Go fig.
"Is it still socially acceptable to hold pro-choice rallies?"
How would you describe the 2012 DNC Convention in Charlotte?
Too bad Lucky Lindy accepted that Service Cross of the German Eagle medal from Goering. And that he refused to return it when folks protested.
Marxism is the meth of the people.
It radicalizes them in the wrong ways, alienates them from each other, and rots them from within.
Putin is a "stone cold killer," a kleptocrat and a snake.
Also very smart. He is employing the high ideals of the finest Russian artists to promote a sinister nationalism that does nothing for ordinary Russians but keeps his oligarchs in charge.
It embarrasses me to watch this prick wipe the floor, again and again, with our president and secretary of state.
I think that Buchannan has hit a chord here. We are into the sixth year of the Obama Recession, with no end in sight, because the White House was sold to the masses by giving away trillions of dollars borrowed from the Chines. Last election can be viewed as a victory of the takers over the makers in our society.
Meanwhile, we have a lawless President, and lawless Administration. The government of and by the people has declared war on the people it is supposed to serve, led by the IRS and the Department of Justice investigating, persecuting, and prosecuting enemies of the oligarchs running this country.
Meanwhile, we navel gaze, abdicating morality to the lawless running this country. Ann has had multiple posts over the last couple days about the ramifications of opposing Gay Marriage - despite thousands of years of history, religion, and experience counseling against it.
There is a deep sense of discomfort and foreboding in this country that has grown up in response to the success of Obama and his supporters gaining and maintaining power by selling the treasury to the takers in our society. Anything goes these days, as long as you have enough power.
So, the United States seems to be unsure about itself these days, and the Russians are trying to step into the vacuum. Part of this is to try to retake the moral high ground that Obama and his progressive supporters have given up on the world stage.
Why are the Russians our enemies?
Here the enemy is within.
Elected once ... a mistake, petulance.
Elected twice ... enemy action ...
I blame the voters. Specially the women.
Stupendulous LoFo Boobs ....
Lydia said...
Too bad Lucky Lindy accepted that Service Cross of the German Eagle medal from Goering. And that he refused to return it when folks protested.
====================
Americans occasionally get awards from odious regimes for their accomplishments. Many distinguished scientists, sports greats and cultural stars recieved awards from the Soviet Union, China, some 3rd World dictatorship people then or now had a hard spot about...and usually their protest is just a snitfest by people (nowadays the self-righteous human rights folks, gay activists, etc.) not worthy of any such award protesting the "symbolism" of the award and calling for the person to reject the honor.
-----If running a country only involved mastery of giving speeches Obama would be a great leader.
You are such a dummy. You have no coherent point and just string together a few non sequiturs.----
Oh, ARM's hot buttons got pushed!!!
Lydia: Too bad Lucky Lindy accepted that Service Cross of the German Eagle medal from Goering. And that he refused to return it when folks protested.
"Too bad" in what sense, Lydia? In that this provided excellent smear-fodder for his pro-war detractors? Absolutely. Or in the sense that you think this, I dunno, definitively outs him as a Nazi or a Hitler apologist or something? Or at least a Very Very Bad Person whom all decent persons must condemn?
The rather tabloid-y link you provide ("Last Chance to See Charles Lindbergh's Nazi Medal", from the lifestyle section of a local paper) doesn't exactly suggest a scholarly approach on your part to Lindbergh's life and times.
Great paragraph from the article, though:
The medal was ostensibly for Lindbergh's contributions to aviation, but it was also granted because the all-American boy from Minnesota had become an ardent proponent of Nazi Germany's military superiority and a vocal advocate for American isolationism.
Gotta love that illiterate use of "ostensibly" and "proponent". That is, I'm assuming that the reporter is a bit fuzzy on the meaning of the latter, and isn't actually trying to say that Lindbergh wanted Nazi Germany to be militarily superior to his own nation (rather than what he did believe - that at that point it was objectively militarily superior).
Lindberg's Kraut medals ...
Walter Duranty's 1932 Pulitzer Prize ...
The enemy is within ...
I blame the voters ....
Interesting that you have no real Catholics commenting here - Fatima - Covert Russia to Christianity - it was done in the 1990s by the trifecta of Ronald Regan, JP2 and Lech Walnesa -
Buchanan is a Jesuit Catholic on steroids. He always has been.
And many Catholics wonder why Putin is suddenly the big boogey man of the gay mafia, Obama loving media?
Could there be other agendas at hand in our own Pravda media that lies to us all the time and only tells us stories THEY want us to hear?
Seriously - check out Fatima. It's a bit of a big deal to some folks.
So Putin is peddling Marxism combined with traditional Christian values? Why do I expect that this particular Dodo ain't gonna fly?"
Of course it's going to fly for a while until he no longer needs it. Just like Stalin at the nadir of the war when Stalin made his truce with the Orthodox Church, when he stopped addressing the Soviet people as comrades and instead addressed them as brothers and sisters. That latest untl May 1945. The Soviet people reverted to being comrades shortly there after. Putin when he percives the time is right will drop the Church as well.
Chris the fatal mistake the communist make as a religion is that communism promises heaven in this life unlike every other religion that promises heaven in the next life.
ARM is right on one point: Russian historical craving for an autocrat makes them truly cursed.
I think the kindest thing to say about Lindbergh is that he was completely undone by the kidnapping and murder of his little boy, and that he, and his wife, went off the deep-end as a consequence. They were not so much traitorous as far as Germany was concerned, but fools, capable of saying this stuff:
“ 'While I still have many reservations,' he wrote to a U.S. Army officer who was also a personal friend, 'I have come away with a feeling of great admiration for the German people. The condition of the country, and the appearance of the average person whom I saw, leaves with me the impression that Hitler must have far more character and vision than I thought existed in the German leader who has been painted in so many different ways by the accounts of America and England.'
In a letter to another American friend he wrote: 'With all the things we criticize, he [Hitler] is undoubtedly a great man, and I believe has done much for the German people. He is fanatic in many ways, and any one can see that there is a certain amount of fanaticism in Germany today. It is less than I expected, but it is there. On the other hand, Hitler has accomplished results -- good in addition to bad -- which could hardly have been accomplished without some fanaticism.'
Lindbergh’s wife was Anne Morrow Lindbergh, a remarkable woman who was, in her own right, an accomplished aviator and a successful author. In a 1936 letter to her mother, she wrote:
'Hitler, I am beginning to feel, is a very great man, like an inspired religious leader -- and as such rather fanatical -- but not scheming, not selfish, not greedy for power, but a mystic, a visionary who really wants the best for his country and, on the whole, has a rather broad view.'
Charles Lindbergh was so impressed with Hitler’s Germany that he seriously considered moving there with his family. 'I did not feel real freedom until I came to Europe,” he remarked in 1939. “The strange thing is that of all the European countries, I found most personal freedom in Germany, with England next, and then France.' After a search for a suitable place to live, he found a property in a suburb of Berlin that he came close to buying. But as the threat of war grew in Europe, he abandoned those plans."
How odd that all those quotes are on a site very admiring of Lindbergh "courageous prophetic voice."
Not surprised that Fudd whitewashes Lindbergh's Nazi ties, after all he whitewashes ass-raping molesters from Polanski to Sandusky. At least he's preference-neutral!
Cedarford wrote:
Certainly did more than any Neocon crying "Munich!" as a blank check for wars of adventure...or past "American Empire through endless war" persons did - to show by example what courage and patriotism was all about.
Except the neocons were right about nazism and Lindbergh was wrong. The peacenicks, and the peace in our time crowd were simply wrong.
ChuckR,
"Reading Buchanan is a waste of time; it's way too much work trying to sort out the outrageous assertions from the unpleasant truths."
FIFY.
Seriously, you can get the unpleasant truths from the likes of Instapundit, Steyn, and even right here on Althouse.
Lindbergh's praise for Hitler paled compared to the praise for Stalin by "good people".
One difference is that Lindbergh changed his view and worked against Nazi Germany. The Stalin fans didn't when it mattered. Some turned after Kruschchev made it acceptable to do so.
@Lydia, re Lindbergh:
Well said.
Only a fool would believe that Nazi medal stuck to his chest flew there on its own little Nazi wings, but Lindbergh had lost a child to a violent crime in a lawless city and I can understand his reaching out to anything that looked better. Once the war started and Lindbergh put his life on the line -- for America -- he more than redeemed himself.
Buchanan is pre-war Lindbergh, not Lindbergh Redeemed, and my suspicion it will always be so remains just as strong.
"Nations have no permanent friends and no permanent enemies, only permanent interests."
What Putin is expressing is hardcore nationalism. It comes as a surprise because the USA, and especially Europe, have mostly discarded nationalism, having blamed it for the world wars.
So, Putin is a nationalist. He saw an opportunity and he took it. Why would it be any more complicated than that?
Perhaps the West is degenerate- but what is the relevance of that (other than that it paralyzes it in the face of aggression)?
Pat Buchanan can't decide if he's a neo-isolationist fascist or a crusading theocratic fascist, depends on how well his eggs were cooked that morning.
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