Is this an instance of political correctness run amok? Is it a sign that Silicon Valley has become militantly tolerant, unwilling to let executives express their personal viewpoints on issues unrelated to their jobs? I’ve seen many such worries expressed online; even supporters of same-sex marriage have been characterizing Mr. Eich’s ouster as an awful precedent for giving in to moralistic mob rule.
৫ এপ্রিল, ২০১৪
Militantly tolerant — now, there's a concept. Too bad it's only an editing error.
From an article that's been up at the NYT since yesterday afternoon, by Farhad Manjoo, titled "Why Mozilla’s Chief Had to Resign":
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Are you sure it's an editing error?
I can't imagine what the corrected statement would be.
I wonder how Farhad pronounces his last name?...and how that is received in the ummah?
The article also says, "Mozilla is not a normal company. It is an activist organization. Mozilla’s primary mission isn’t to make money but to spread open-source code across the globe in the eventual hope of promoting “the development of the Internet as a public resource. As such, Mozilla operates according to a different calculus from most of the rest of corporate America."
This is the classic bullshit that people say about all groovy start-up companies when they are flush with cash and all is well. Give it five years, and when they are in decline, they'll hire any SOB who will save their precious cool jobs.
The Scribes and the Open-Sourcearisees brought a man who had been caught in donating $1000 to Proposition 8; and making him stand before all of them, they said, "Teacher, this man was caught in the very act of committing intolerance."
"Now in the law of Obama we are commanded to stone such men twice as hard. Now what do you say?" They said this to test him, so that they might have some charge to bring against the man.
The Teacher bent down and typed on his notebook. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let anyone among you who is without moral imperfection be the first to post a tweet at him." And once again he bent down and typed on his iPad.
When they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the elders; and the Teacher was left alone with the Mozilla man standing before him.
Reminds of the Wisconsin Recall Blacklist. Thanks to the tireless efforts of the Tea Party, there is a database of everyone that signed a recall to remove Scott Walker from office. Even the Governor uses it.
I can't help but compare Eich's situation to the "Duck Dynasty" kerfuffle a while back which ended amicably for all. It should have been a lesson here too. It wasn't.
Silicon Valley and the whole Bay Area is ripe for some introspection. They forget they they too live by economic laws and that they have customers who can become aware of intolerance. All it takes is a little publicity. If the collective hive-mind up there which dominates California's economy and its Senate representation are serious about pushing intolerance of political views, they too deserve a couple hard political knocks.
Eich was and is "guilty" of having precisely same position on homosexual marriage that Barack Obama did for the majority of his Presidency.
And those who have driven Eich out voted for Obama by significant majorities.
Gee,it's almost as if the entire left wing base knew obama was lying about his true position the entire time.
The entire time.
Reminds me of wanting union votes not to be secret, like card check or that teacher's union meeting where they had to vote by walking through a door.
garage: "Thanks to the tireless efforts of the Tea Party, there is a database of everyone that signed a recall to remove Scott Walker from office."
LOL
And the Tea Party throngs surged forth, smiting all in their way and driving signers of the Recall Petition and their families from their homes.
The lamentations of those afflicted by the Tea Party horde could be heard hundreds of miles away even over the constant rat-a-tat-tat of gunfire in Chicago.
Woe be to those who signed the Recall Petition.
Meade: funny and apt, if only to point out that in this case we have no such Teacher, and the stoning proceeded apace.
Reminds me of wanting union votes not to be secret, like card check or that teacher's union meeting where they had to vote by walking through a door.
Fail.
Higher education nowadays teach that political correctness and diversity is equally important to competence and success. Why is anyone surprised that Eich was pounced on in this way?
Ha Ha. Do it, Althouse.
In today's political environment you are best to shut up and say nothing political at all since we cannot know what will be an antisocial bigoted belief tomorrow. Freedom of speech is a luxury for those who are independently wealthy, independently poor or in a protected caste, not the average working person.
For most people there could be no more serious threat against political speech than the threat of losing your livelihood because you expressed a political opinion.
Give it five years
They have been around since 1998
Ann,
Indeed. Card check, exactly. As though the obvious sequelae to "will you or won't you vote for the union?" were hugs and kisses all round, whichever way you voted.
Union shop or non-union shop, you don't get to pick your co-workers.
I find it hard to believe that Garage can't tell the difference between refusing to make a political appointment and hounding someone out of their job.
"Madison Mayor Paul Soglin's stated intent when proposing that city contractors disclose private political donations was to 'discourage contributions to organizations with which he disagrees.'"
SUBSTITUTE Creating Section 4.28 of the Madison General Ordinances to require certain City contractors to disclose contributions to advocacy organizations.
TRUE
Even if it weren't an editing error, I can imagine that certain groups would find it a completely acceptable and understandable construction. It all depends on the meaning of the word "tolerant". To those people, words mean only what they want them to mean.
So, to be a CEO in Silicon Valley, would someone of Persian background have to renounce Islam?
That is probably a testable proposition.
"Reminds of the Wisconsin Recall Blacklist. Thanks to the tireless efforts of the Tea Party, there is a database of everyone that signed a recall to remove Scott Walker from office. Even the Governor uses it."
So, how many of them were fired ?
You fool.
I think the forces of "tolerance" are miscalculating the public mood.
People are offended by this kind of behavior.
Thus Phil Robertson and his family stand firm in their beliefs, stay on air, get more viewers.
Mozilla forces CEO to resign, loses users. Possibly a large number.
Lesson learned.
It is beginning to sound like the story of Peter To Rot from the 1940s, that issue was polygamy though.
I have yet to hear a case of garage's fantasy "recall blacklist" affecting anyone who was working or trying to get an explicitly non-political job. How many of their 20,000 employees in Wisconsin did the evil Koch brothers fire in Wisconsin for supporting the recall? How many Madison bureaucrats are wandering the streets homeless because they voted en-masse to recall Walker?
I find it hard to believe that Garage can't tell the difference between refusing to make a political appointment and hounding someone out of their job.
That's the difference between me and you. I can see troubling aspects with the Eich resignation. But when rubber meets the road conservatives never ever stick up for someone's free speech who they happen to not like. Similar to arresting and handcuffing little old ladies in the Capitol for signing songs against Scott Walker. Would they ever stick up for their 1st Amendments rights? Not a chance.
Thus Phil Robertson and his family stand firm in their beliefs, stay on air, get more viewers.
Actually, Duck Dynasty's ratings have dropped, though probably for reasons other than the controversy, but that didn't help: http://m.hollywoodreporter.com/entry/view/id/255147
And the demographic base of Mozilla supporters (which is the key base that Mozilla needs to satisfy as a non-profit) probably differs from Duck Dynasty fans, so the context differs.
OKCupid wrote:
"Those who seek to deny love and instead enforce misery, shame and frustration are our enemies and we wish them nothing but failure"
So let's look at marriage in total, and not simply as n issue of gay marriage equality. OKCupid is aware that marriage is restricted in other ways that affect more than just gays right?
I would postulate that there is love involved in any the of marriage that is being restricted. And therefore, a restriction on marriage is a restriction on that love. OKcupid says that if you deny love! then you are their enemy. So are they supporting bigamy or polygamy or incest or underage marriages? Or are they going to preposterously say that those relationships don't involve love or are someohow not being restricted.
So, if Eich supported traditional marriage over legalization of polygamy would OKCupid say that you shouldn't use Firefox to access their site, because Eich supported traditional marriage? Because they are all about love, and if you deny love then you are their enemy.
What about Man Boy Love? the word Love is in NAMBLA's name. So, how would they be opposed to man boy love? I trust that OKCupid facilitates man boy love on its websites as otherwise, they aren't really living up to their slogan.
Do they wish failure on states who implement age restrictions on marriage that prevent kids from marrying adults? I would think that! because its a denial of love, such restrictions would make OKCupid the enemy of any age restrictions.
Unless OKCupid is saying that people who are in restricted marriages that don't include gay marriage aren't really practicing love. And if so, how presumptuous of OKCupid. A daring site telling people in loving relationships, as they define love, that they are not in loving relationships?
How could OKCupid be against any marriage restriction?
If traditional marriage were to incorporate gay mRriage into the framework it still wouldn't be enough, since there would still be people in love being denied the right to marry. And so, OKCupid would be the enemy of those trying to so restrict marriages.
Garage
"Fail" is quite the eloquent rebuttal to a statement that cannot be rebutted without snark or with limited vocabulary.
I think a good description for this kind of thing is "progressive fundamentalism." Progressivism is a moral belief system. It's not an opinion about what is factually correct or incorrect, it is a moral system for deciding what is good and what is bad, what is right and what is wrong.
Just like Muslim fundamentalists believe that the highest moral standard is the Koran and wish to impose it on the whole world, so the progressive fundamentalists hold that equality is the highest moral standard and wish to impose it on the whole world.
A Muslim fundamentalist feels justified killing those who impede his vision of moral progress. So far, the progressive fundamentalists in the West only feel justified in getting their opponents fired from their jobs. But since Leftism tends to relentlessly progress towards the extreme Left to the point of social collapse, a time may come when Western progressives, like their comrades in Cambodia, North Korea, Venezuela, and so on, decide that internment in gulags or even firing squads are necessary to ensure that "progress" continues.
"That's the difference between me and you. I can see troubling aspects with the Eich resignation. But when rubber meets the road conservatives never ever stick up for someone's free speech who they happen to not like."
Not true.
I hated Prop 8.
I have yet to hear a case of garage's fantasy "recall blacklist" affecting anyone who was working or trying to get an explicitly non-political job
Quite a few people on here (or one person with many sockpuppets?) were bragging how they used the recall list when hiring people for their own company or the company they worked for. One person said when given a task of laying off workers the only thing they consulted was the recall list.
Do you really think they were all lying?
It seems to me that argument that open source/community projects are different cuts in the opposite direction from the way Manjoo thinks it does.
Progressives don't fully appreciate anymore how intimidating it is to face getting fired from your job for your political beliefs. They haven't had to worry about that since the 1950s and the younger generations have only lived in a society where progressivism is the approved moral ideology, taught in schools, etc. You never need worry about losing your job for progressive beliefs.
But if we're not going to be a united people that work out our differences with discussion - even heated discussion - then, if we're simply enemies seeking to force the other into silent submission, then ok - get people fired. Make 'em hurt. Go for it. Alinsky 'em good. They're the enemy, after all, and this is war. For now it will just be getting them fired - later it will be worse as progressives gain more power due to the demographic displacement of whites that progressives engineered beginning decades ago. Progressives will have the rock-solid votes of the non-white population, who will always vote disproportionately for the Left candidate, since that is the candidate that will promise the most punishment for the shrinking, despised white male oppressors.
The rude surprise for white progressives will come when the minorities don't need them anymore. Just like white progressives attacked by black flash mobs, the white progressives will find that their progressiveness doesn't give them a pass. Here's an early indication of such:
What is the best way to work with white people, to get them on our side?
I don’t want them on our side.
You don’t want them on your side.
This is not reform, this is revolution.
Would it be inflammatory to say that you think white men are sort of the enemy?
Um. I mean I think they are, and we might as well label it. Whiteness will always be the enemy.
" demographic base of Mozilla supporters (which is the key base that Mozilla needs to satisfy as a non-profit) probably differs from Duck Dynasty fans"
A lot of people who are not fans of Duck Dynasty were still offended at the attempt to place Phil Robertson beyond the pale.
I for instance, think the show is cheesier and more camp than an episode of the 60s Batman series and that is not the kind of entertainment that I find appealing.
However, I am definitely the kind of demographic that Mozilla is looking to woo. I downloaded and installed Mosaic a couple of months after it was released. I provide my friends and family computer support and make suggestions on such things as what anti-virus software to use and what browser they should use to replace IE.
I have used Mozilla in the past, found it blah. Was using opera, heard about Pale Moon due to this kerfluffle and am now trying it out.
I will never use or recommend Mozilla.
Maybe we should name them the "Toleristas."
We will make them tolerate us. We will use force if we have to.
Don't make me use this thing.
"When you consider the importance of that market, Mr. Eich’s position on gay marriage wasn’t some outré personal stance unrelated to his job; it was a potentially hazardous bit of negative branding in the labor pool, one that was making life difficult for current employees and plausibly reducing Mozilla’s draw to prospective workers."
This is absurd. The world is full of diverse opinions on gay marriage, with a huge portion being against it. This Eich-tossing only works to tell the labor pool that diverse opinions on gay marriage are not welcome at Mozilla. It does the opposite of what Manjoo contends.
"I have yet to hear a case of garage's fantasy "recall blacklist" affecting anyone who was working or trying to get an explicitly non-political job
Quite a few people on here (or one person with many sockpuppets?) were bragging how they used the recall list when hiring people for their own company or the company they worked for. One person said when given a task of laying off workers the only thing they consulted was the recall list.
Do you really think they were all lying?"
Yeah, because you'd have have to be a freakin' rocket scientist to moby in the comments of a blog. It's really, really difficult.
Gahrie: I find it hard to believe that Garage can't tell the difference between refusing to make a political appointment and hounding someone out of their job.
I'd be astonished if he could.
@MnMark,
It's sad that Suey Park & Asian activists are so poorly educated in their own histories that they'll blather on about "standing together against 'whiteness'" without realizing that those very words have been used historically as cover for all sorts of evil on a national & international scale.
Does Ms Park think that the Japanese Imperial Empire told its subjects to their faces that they were fodder for the Japanese to use as they saw fit? No, they were all parts of the "East-Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere". How about how the Chinese Communist Party moved millions of Han Chinese into provinces like Tibet or Xinjiang? Or, how the North Korean government stokes racial purity to help keep its people in line.
I tell you-- getting called racist by American blacks is one thing & often deserved. But, getting called racist by an East Asian? Helllooo!? Do you know anything about the culture you came out of?
garage mahal said...
Reminds of the Wisconsin Recall Blacklist.
Other than Republican functions, what have they been blacklisted from?
Quite a few people on here (or one person with many sockpuppets?) were bragging how they used the recall list when hiring people for their own company or the company they worked for. One person said when given a task of laying off workers the only thing they consulted was the recall list.
Do you really think they were all lying?
I think you are lying, since you fail to cite examples.
"It's sad that Suey Park & Asian activists are so poorly educated in their own histories that they'll blather on about "standing together against 'whiteness'""
She seems to be under the rather odd delusion that she will not be classified as one of the oppressors.
When the revolution comes.
http://www.mercurynews.com/education/ci_25363174/california-asian-americans-show-strength-blocking-affirmative-action
David @ 1:04,
Yeah I did a spit take at madisonfella's comment as well.
Other than Republican functions, what have they been blacklisted from?
Employment. That's why the Tea Party went thru 1 million recall signatures and made a searchable database. Republicans tried recalling 6 Dem Senators, and notice liberal didn't make a database out of those names?
Look, I wanted to stay clear of this controversy for a number of reasons; not least is companies are free to keep or fire whomever they please within some pretty broad limits. So Mozilla may or may not have acted cravenly or stupidly, but that's their business.
But watching this whole thing evolve has really begun to bother me. One donation to Proposition 8 has been turned into an entire belief system. Gay agenda/rights contains w,x,y,& z. Man not in favor of x. Man must therefore be anti-gay in his entirety and shamed if not destroyed.
This guy has been slandered and libeled for his supposed anti-gay beliefs so much that you'd think he was caught on the courthouse steps with a Westboro Baptist Church sign blocking gay couples from coming in to even get civil unions.
Mozilla offers zero examples of his ever being anti-gay in the workplace even as they kick him to the curb. There are zero gay employees or acquaintances coming forward to say how this man made them feel uncomfortable or harassed in the workplace, or their social situations.
Perhaps its a testament to the lack of evidence that others feel compelled to ransack this guys other donations back 24 years no less to see if they can find some dirt. Disgusting. There is no other word for it.
Show me the man and I'll show you the crime indeed!
Madisonfella,
I don't recall the claims and even if I did, I'd have to say that yes, I do think they were lying. And I don't have a problem saying this proven case of mainstream political beliefs costing someone their job outweighs anonymous comments on a website.
It has some analogy to the Hollywood blacklists, not precise, but enough to use the comparison as a teaching tool.
What it immediately brings to mind though, are calls to jail climate deniers, and worse. Those people are entirely serious, and will put their ideas into effect as soon as they can. The left has no compunction when it comes to the tyranny of the majority. Eich's treatment is a perfect example.
And, I should add, if you can find a documented case of someone losing their non-political job over signing the recall petition, I will denounce that, too as an outrage.
" I’ve seen many such worries expressed online; even supporters of same-sex marriage have been characterizing Mr. Eich’s ouster as an awful precedent for giving in to moralistic mob rule."
Liberals have set the precedent that this is ok. When its republicans in charge and doing the same, lets not hear any bitching and moaning.
This is the classic bullshit that people say about all groovy start-up companies when they are flush with cash and all is well. Give it five years, and when they are in decline, they'll hire any SOB who will save their precious cool jobs.
You sound very angry that a not-for-profit organization exists, much less a SOFTWARE organization. I mean how dare they exist for the betterment of mankind instead of the lure of filthy lucre? I've got news for you - Apple creates technology for the love of it, not money. That must really burn your gears.
Ralph Hyatt: [Suey Park] seems to be under the rather odd delusion that she will not be classified as one of the oppressors.
Suey Park is an Angry Studies dingbat who's getting her 15 minutes of twitter fame among the usual suspects. She really needs to hustle to turn it into a paying gig at some b.s. non-profit. (Lotta competition out there if your only skill is getting offended.)
I know I posted this on an earlier thread, but her getting white-privileged by some Huffington Post guy is pretty funny.
""When you consider the importance of that market, Mr. Eich’s position on gay marriage wasn’t some outré personal stance unrelated to his job; it was a potentially hazardous bit of negative branding in the labor pool, one that was making life difficult for current employees and plausibly reducing Mozilla’s draw to prospective workers."
NO gay person was denied any sort of positino at Moziilla because of their gayness. It was about marriage, not gayness. And in the interest of serving the customers of California, how did they vote in Prop 8 again?
You'd think therefore that if the majority of voting citizens vote for essentially upholding traditional marriage, that the same population might be reflected in the browser usage. In other words, a lot of people who vote for Prop 8 also use Firefox. Even if the workforce is entirely composed of gay marriage advocates it would seem that they were holding positions counter to that of the majority of CA at the time. And so, alienating those 7 million people who might be using Firefox, might actually not be in Mozilla's interest.
demographic base of Mozilla supporters (which is the key base that Mozilla needs to satisfy as a non-profit) probably differs from Duck Dynasty fans
This is what the militants are telling themselves right now. That those dang Neanderthal Cons can't work a computer without IE5 and need their kids to help them set up the facebook and the atwitter.
We'll see if they're right. One of those Neanderthals happened to create Javascript, so I'm guessing they don't understand the demographic they're vilifying very well. (Used FF exclusively for 10 years before installing Opera a few days ago).
Someone has oppo-researched the for and against Prop. 8 donor lists and found that Intel employees in California split 60/40 for Prop. 8.
Is this sort of thing going to be a regular feature of elections from now on?
The next step being to publish the names and addresses of employees on the other side from your favored view?
Farhad Manjoo's thesis was that any thinking that "Mr. Eich’s ouster as an awful precedent for giving in to moralistic mob rule" was incorrect.
To the contrary; what Manjoo described was even more emblematic of "mob rule" than I thought. I had thought that an ultra-PC board of Silicon Valley liberals made a business decision based on public relations concerns. That would have been the self-interested, corporate-interest tactic.
But no; what Farhad Manjoo describes is precisely what he protested. It WAS a mob of coders and software designers, as he describes it. No one is willing to state the business case for this forced resignation; it is all simply about a mob-mindset of militantly pro-same-sex marriage tech workers.
Garage you are such a dishonest and disingenuous troll.
As for this: "Similar to arresting and handcuffing little old ladies in the Capitol for signing songs against Scott Walker..."
If your "little old ladies" are living in the Capitol building for days on end, interrupting state business, preventing cleaning services from working, causing harm to the structure and fixtures in the building, assaulting state senators, and disobeying police orders that would otherwise accommodate all reasonable protests including singing -- then yeah. Arrest their little old lady asses.
Birches said...
demographic base of Mozilla supporters (which is the key base that Mozilla needs to satisfy as a non-profit) probably differs from Duck Dynasty fans
This is what the militants are telling themselves right now. That those dang Neanderthal Cons can't work a computer without IE5 and need their kids to help them set up the facebook and the atwitter.
We'll see if they're right. One of those Neanderthals happened to create Javascript, so I'm guessing they don't understand the demographic they're vilifying very well. (Used FF exclusively for 10 years before installing Opera a few days ago).
4/5/14, 2:32 PM
-------------------------------
Same here; switched to Safari after being a satisfied FF user for a decade.
Mozilla is going to suffer the same fate as Carbonite when they decided to go PC.
Militant tolerance: the latest synonym for the communist doctrine of radical tolerance, under which all dissent is crushed in the name of the greater good?
Ann Althouse "Reminds me of wanting union votes not to be secret, like card check or that teacher's union meeting where they had to vote by walking through a door."
Yes indeed. Unions have a long history of thuggery.
If Garage is going to bring up the Walker recall, then how about the unions and Democrats who threatened businesses with a boycott if they didn't support the recall?
Althouse may even have posted about shops that were told that they had to put a union "recall Walker" sign in their window or else.
"You sound very angry that a not-for-profit organization exists, much less a SOFTWARE organization. I mean how dare they exist for the betterment of mankind instead of the lure of filthy lucre? I've got news for you - Apple creates technology for the love of it, not money. That must really burn your gears."
The most staggeringly disingenuous thing I've read on the Internet this week. You must live in a complete fantasy world.
"You must live in a complete fantasy world."
Unfortunately, he wants to force us to live in it too, which is annoying since I believe that the only good kommissar is a dead kommissar.
"I've got news for you - Apple creates technology for the love of it, not money."
Sure, which is why they go to great pains to keep billions out of reach of US taxation. It's a company, not a cult.
" Apple creates technology for the love of it, not money."
OMG Alex, is there no floor to the depths of your deludability? I am sure that you thoroughly believed that you could keep your doctor too.
What goes around comes around. See the link below for more info.
#goes
www.mocsbar.com
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