Black students are more than four times as likely as white students — and Latino students are twice as likely — to attend schools where one out of every five teachers does not meet all state teaching requirements....
March 21, 2014
"A quarter of high schools with the highest percentage of black and Latino students do not offer any Algebra II courses..."
"... while a third of those schools do not have any chemistry classes."
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345 comments:
1 – 200 of 345 Newer› Newest»1) The parents of those students should be at the local school board (probably comprised of Black people) complaining. However I doubt any of them have ever been to a school board meeting.
2)The main reason innercity minority dominated schools get crappy teachers is that the good teachers are unwilling to submit themselves to the punishment of working at schools where there are few if any consequences for the intentional non-learners.
3) In California it is illegal for schools to give Black students (and only Black students) IQ tests.
4)"Acting White" was not invented by White racists, it was invented by proud Blacks.
“Here we are, 60 years after Brown v. Board of Education, and the data altogether still show a picture of gross inequity in educational opportunity,” said Daniel J. Losen, director of the Center for Civil Rights Remedies at the University of California at Los Angeles’s Civil Rights Project.
Geez. At no point in the article, of course, is there any consideration of what might cause this correlation. Nowhere. They don't even come out and say "racism". They just don't even address it at all.
They're terrified -- subconsciously, I think -- by the possibility that it's the culture of the surrounding community that produces these schools.
When you mal-educate at the elementary level, there aren't students qualified to take chemistry and algebra II in high school. All will be passed along and "graduate" so at least the ones with athletic talent can get a football or basketball scholarship to get the same treatment in college.
from the article:
While black children make up 18 percent of preschool enrollment, close to half of all preschool children who are suspended more than once are African-American.
So it is clear that the problem is that Black families are not socializing and preparing their kids for school. The other thing, I bet most of those Black kids were suspended by Black teachers and Black administrators.
“To see that young African-American students — or babies, as I call them — are being suspended from pre-K programs at such horrendous rates is deeply troubling,” said Leticia Smith-Evans,
I agree with her, but I bet we have drastically different versions of the cause and solution .
I heard this part on NPR this a.m.:
Black students are suspended and expelled at three times the rate of white students...“Here we are, 60 years after Brown v. Board of Education, and the data altogether still show a picture of gross inequity in educational opportunity,” said Daniel J. Losen, director of the Center for Civil Rights Remedies at the University of California at Los Angeles’s Civil Rights Project.
If the U.S. welfare system can be identified as either a cause or a contributor to minority family instability, if family instability can be correlated to misbehavior and poor educational performance....if this effect is disproportionally affecting minorities....
Education is "acting white." That's a bad thing.
Surprise! Surprise! School discipline records mirror prison population statistics by race. It must be the devil.
“Here we are, 60 years after Brown v. Board of Education, and the data altogether still show a picture of gross inequity in educational opportunity,” said Daniel J. Losen, director of the Center for Civil Rights Remedies at the University of California at Los Angeles’s Civil Rights Project.
On the bright side, if there were no inequality, then Daniel J. Losen would have to find employment elsewhere.
Forcing increased learning on a group that does not value it, Is hardly any different that forcing democracy on a nation which for generations has had no desire for self determination.
I'm not saying it can't be done, But the cost must be weighed. It's fine to insure that an opportunity exists for advancement, But to bludgeon ourselves with the club of failure when we fail to meet some idealized statistical standard seems to fly in the face of reality.
“Folks who cannot teach effectively should not be working with low-income or African-American kids, period,” he said, adding that the problem was difficult to resolve because individual districts are allowed to make decisions on how to assign teachers to schools.
Hell, "folks who cannot teach effectively" should NOT be teaching anyone. You want to improve education in America, support vouchers. Allow parents to select the school to which their children will go and let the money follow them.
What are the confounding factors, especially geographic and parental. Without knowing how many of the children are dual parent and how many are single parent household, and without knowing the geographical distribution, these numbers are nearly meaningless.
"On the bright side, if there were no inequality, then Daniel J. Losen would have to find employment elsewhere"
My guess, is he'd be ok with that.
I bet both Daniel J. Losen and Leticia Smith-Evans oppose charter schools and vouchers and support trapping kids in those failing schools.
Obviously, not spending enough money on these students' schools. We need more money, way more money, more staff, more teachers, maybe a one to one teacher student ratio.
And better teachers. If the best won't stick around, mandatory busing should be implemented. They won't mind. They're mostly liberal, Obama supporters anyway. A Federal Court should order teacher busing and send the best, experienced teachers to the worst schools. Yeah.
Also, more advanced classes. They can do it, all men (and others) are created equal. Just give them the chance.
@TIm
]
You're right. I forgot, mandatory fathers. Maybe we can bus them in from the suburbs?
Tim said...
What are the confounding factors, especially geographic and parental. Without knowing how many of the children are dual parent and how many are single parent household, and without knowing the geographical distribution, these numbers are nearly meaningless.
Hell if we had access to all of that data, we might draw the WRONG conclusions and not go along with just throwing more money at education.
Gahrie, that's a good synopsis of the situation. In their race to condemn and exploit the majority, they submitted to interests and brokers who condemned and exploited them.
The problem, despite the pleas of the establishment, is not money (other than compensation for progressive cost-of-living). In fact, redistributive change policies, and their defending interests, have normalized corruption, which has both social and economic consequences.
Think of the children, abort! Oh, and send more money.
The Scientific Quest to Prove Racism is the Cause of Disparate Educational Outcomes.
We need more studies to identify the problem and more money to further the problem while giving politicians something to buy votes from the people causing the problem.
What is unknown?
In the olden days a student could be expelled for bad behavior. And expelled students and their parents were shamed by their peers. No more. Now bad behavior is rampant in many schools and the best teachers are not willing to work in them.
There is no reason to have Algebra II if there is no Algebra I or enough students who have passed it to fill up an Algebra II class.
This article, sadly, could have been written five, ten, fifteen and thirty years ago. And can be recycled in two, five and fifty years. We cannot fix this problem if it cannot be discussed.
These statistics don't tell us anything about schools in Milwaukee or Madison. The involved parents get their children out of those failing schools in Wisconsin because of open enrollment. 35, 000 Milwaukee students are in private, charter or suburban schools, 75,00 in public schools. I'm tired of massive statistical collections that hide the reality of an entire state. This kind of statistical assemblage is trying to make a strong case by showing a massive problem. I think it weakens the case to use scare tactics that start to seem unbelievable. And you can tell when that is happening because no solution is proposed - as here. This kind of liberal thinks he's a good guy if he sets off the fire alarm but the good guy is the the fireman.
Until recently I taught pre-k; I have left my position. When I first started several years ago the program I worked for was a small, high-quality, limited-hours mothers' day out program. Our families were almost exclusively married parents with an at-home mom and the means to pay for preschool so mom could go to the gym and grocery shop alone and spend some exclusive time with the baby sibling. Homes filled with books, quality food, Pinterest crafts, educational toys, limited screen time, and consistent schedules. The result of this was bright, engaged, secure kids without major behavior problems who learned well (we sent a lot of our kids off to start kindergarten reading at a kinder or first grade level) and were a joy to teach.
After a while the school board decided to expand the program to full-time care and almost overnight our clientele changed dramatically. Then we had kids with divorced parents and absent dads, kids from harried dual-income homes, kids who were at "school" from 7 am until 6 pm and who only saw their parent(s) at breakfast and at bedtime, kids whose parent(s) were too distracted or tired to monitor their influences and let them channel surf whatever inappropriate stuff they wanted. You wouldn't believe the behavior problems we had to start dealing with. You can't effectively teach kids who are constantly in emotional turmoil and who act out in all kinds of distracting and aggressive ways because their home lives suck. And these were not poverty-stricken, section 8, foodstamp kids; just kids from family situations that are less than ideal. (And yes two full time working parents with preschool age kids is less than ideal.) Can't imagine what it's like on the other side of town with kids whose parents are in jail or on drugs. Poor things.
It all, ALL starts at home. People expect teachers to work miracles.
My wife is a school teacher by education. Taught one year in an inner city school. Said it was insane and switched careers -- entirely.
The thought experiment I'd like to consider is this: what would happen if we completely abandoned public education. Who would still be education and how would it occur?
I'll elaborate a little more on my wife's inner city school experience. She was threatened almost daily. But worse, she was hit on by the male students every day. In fact, she said she was hit on more than the beer cart girl at a public golf course. And any attempt she took to deal with the threats or the harassment were blocked.
Today she's very successful in another field and deals with complex situations on a regulator basis and feels like she's making a positive contribution.
Tom said...
The thought experiment I'd like to consider is this: what would happen if we completely abandoned public education. Who would still be education and how would it occur?
Do you really mean abandon or do you mean treat like other than free daycare? Meaning change the rules so that a discipline problem can be removed from the school permanently.
What do you see replacing public education? Pay as you go for k-12 too or just more options and have the money follow the student or something else?
None of this happened until Scott Walker was elected Gov of WI.
Or so some regulars who post here frequently will inform us shortly.
Lack of fathers has had (and continues to have) a devastating effect on the black community. It's a problem without an easy solution, or at least one that doesn't involving heavy handed social engineering. Mindlessly throwing money at it doesn't and hasn't worked. This is a depressing topic that always causes arguments.
Hell, "folks who cannot teach effectively" should NOT be teaching anyone. You want to improve education in America, support vouchers. Allow parents to select the school to which their children will go and let the money follow them.
True. The district will start caring more about the quality of teaching and teachers once they start feeling it in their pocketbook. Incentives.
This is incredibly sad. Schools should never have underqualified staff.
The next step is very straightforward. Public schooling remains largely under local control. Many large city school districts are run by city administrators and funded out of city budgets.
Here's the database.
Pick a city. Evaluate the record. If a school district lacks qualified teachers, look at the budget, call out the city administration.
They're terrified -- subconsciously, I think -- by the possibility that it's the culture of the surrounding community that produces these schools.
They're terrified alright, but there's nothing sub-conscious about their fear. They are faced now with the truth that their entire progressive philosophy is a flat-out scam, and more to the point, they're also terrified that the people who have been most directly and negatively impacted by their scam are beginning to wake up to the odor of the fraud.
The parents of those students should be at the local school board (probably comprised of Black people) complaining. However I doubt any of them have ever been to a school board meeting.
My guess would be that half of them couldn't have their parents go because they only have one. And believe me, there's a direct tie between having inadequate schools and having inadequate parents.
Todd:
What do you see replacing public education?
I don't see anything replacing public education. I can see a lot of alternatives to public education being dominated by government operated schools.
Cutting funding might help?
Garage: This is an important topic that I presume you might have an opinion on apart from snark that does not tie in any way to the topic of the article.
I'm going to wax nostalgic and go back to President Obamas first state of the union. (Yes in fact, I did listen to the firs few)
Anyway, among the topics covered was education, and I can recall as clearly as if it were yesterday hearing him say that to fix our failing schools we would first retrain ineffective teachers, and if that didn't work, they would be removed from the teaching profession to a job they could perform at.
I member thinking at the time that he probably hadn't ran that idea past the teachers unions.
And it was the last we heard of it.
Some of the raw data can be found at the Department of Education site. It's statistical analysis of data reported by the states.
http://ocrdata.ed.gov/StateNationalEstimations/Projections_2009_10
IDEA and 504 are explained here. Basically their programs for children with disabilities, which includes physical, mental and emotional disabilities.
The Times article appears to be regurgitating a press release from the Dept. of Ed. I think the Office of Civil Rights is really glomming onto the disparate impact of school discipline on Black students. This appears to be an across the board problem, even in school districts with predominately black students.
Lack of fathers has had (and continues to have) a devastating effect on the black community. It's a problem without an easy solution, or at least one that doesn't involving heavy handed social engineering.
Heavy-handed social engineering is the cause of a lack of fathers in the black community. The destruction of government support or even visible approval of traditional morality regarding personal responsibility for one's actions and the obligation of dealing with their consequences - over decades - is what has led to the current situation.
It will take the restoration of such and decades more to undo the damage. Any thought that somehow we can just tax wealthy people and corporations, give the money to the government, and see the effects reversed is absurd.
Garage: increasing funding hasn't helped. Funding for elementary and high school education has increased across the country with no effect on test scores or educational outcomes. There is simply no correlation. Some districts that spend a lot of money do fine. Some - such as Washington D.C. - have horrific results. The issue is family structure. Increasing funding over a certain basic level (books, heat, light, etc.) doesn't do all that much good.
Gahrie,
"The parents of those students should be at the local school board (probably comprised of Black people) complaining. However I doubt any of them have ever been to a school board meeting."
Tank,
"You're right. I forgot, mandatory fathers. Maybe we can bus them in from the suburbs?"
Will one of you be my daddy?
ROTFLMAO!!!
I never took an Algebra II course in high school. I guess it really matters, from a teaching perspective, whether Algebra I is taught well.
Chemistry is not a course that really requires a prerequisite, even math. Those denied chemistry can make up lost ground unless it is a college requirement.
That said, both courses absent from the curriculum don't help students to master learning. It is a loss to all, not to offer the courses.
You know, I've come to the conclusion that black families were troubled long before the rise of welfare with the War on Poverty, but that increased availability of welfare benefits meant that black mothers didn't need to put up with husbands that were of little use anyway. Not politically correct to say so, but coming from observations from some history reading I was doing recently.
http://janetheactuary.blogspot.com/2014/02/from-library-promised-land-great-black.html
(sorry; you'll have to copy/paste into your browser; I don't have time to copy/paste the proper HTML code.)
“Folks who cannot teach effectively should not be working with low-income or African-American kids, period,” he said, adding that the problem was difficult to resolve because individual districts are allowed to make decisions on how to assign teachers to schools.
Tank, I wonder what these leftist union types are going to say when we start "busing" high tenure teachers into the worst schools :)
Paging Fox Butterfield.
"Unfortunately, Lemann doesn't offer enough concrete information to really understand: was there a marked change at some point, that caused blacks to abandon marriage altogether?"
Yeah, there was this thing called slavery, that broke up black families, and pretty much makes everything America says a joke sometimes.
Their own damn faults. They would rather blindly support their unqualified teachers and charged racism against anyone who criticized the teachers' inadequacies. Remember Mrs. Rhee of NJ? She tried to improve the school system, she lost her job.
"Cutting funding might help?"
DC spends the most per student, so it's clear that more spending is the key.
"Yeah, there was this thing called slavery, that broke up black families, and pretty much makes everything America says a joke sometimes."
Whites were slaves once, and that pretty much ended white marriage.
Yeah, there was this thing called slavery, that broke up black families, and pretty much makes everything America says a joke sometimes.
Black families and Black communities were doing just fine long after slavery had ended. LBJ and his "Great Society" are what destroyed the Black family, and began the collapse of Black communities.
That's false information, Crack. Marriage rates for blacks increased after the Civil War and matched white rates until the mid-1960s. Thomas Sowell did research on it.
@Crack,
Yeah, there was this thing called slavery, that broke up black families, and pretty much makes everything America says a joke sometimes.
Sorry, dude, not true.
Black illegitimacy in 1940 was 19%, but the kids generally ended up with both Mom & Dad in the same household. For US whites in 1940, it was 3%, but I'll bet it was quite a bit higher for Southern whites, I just can't find the number.
Check out Gutman's The Black Family in Slavery and Freedom & don't just assume the answers.
CE: Slavery is old news. Blacks stay where they are and are getting worse because they like to blame everybody else except themselves. Justice Thomas's grand father was a slave. Dr. Carlson was raised by an illiterate single mom.
As far as I can see, there's no more slavery in America. A whole lot of whites had lost their lives to get rid of that. Even if whites were to be blamed, then what? Ruin your life to make them feel bad?
"WASHINGTON, D.C., March 28, 2013 (Acton Institute) - In 1989 Erol Ricketts, a researcher with the Rockefeller Foundation, found that between 1890 and 1950, blacks had higher marriage rates than whites, according to the U.S. Census. The report, titled “The Origin of Black Female-Headed Families,” published in the Spring/Summer issue of Focus (32-37) provides an overview that highlights an important question.
Ricketts observes that between 1960 and 1985, female-headed families grew from 20.6 to 43.7 percent of all black families, compared to growth from 8.4 to 12 percent for white families. The rates of marriage for both black and white women were lowest at the end of the 1800s and peaked in 1950 for blacks and 1960 for whites. Furthermore, according to Ricketts, “it is dramatically clear that black females married at higher rates than white females of native parentage until 1950.” National data covering “decennial years from 1890 to 1920 show that blacks out-married whites despite a consistent shortage of black males due to their higher rates of mortality. And in three of the four decennial years there was a higher proportion of currently married black men than white men.”
Gahrie,
Black families and Black communities were doing just fine long after slavery had ended.
Says Gahrie, which makes it so.
Me? I'm just the guy who grew up black,...
Two black people born in 1990 fall in love but don't get married because their families were broken up in 1860.
Makes sense to me.
The Crack Emcee said...
Yeah, there was this thing called slavery, that broke up black families, and pretty much makes everything America says a joke sometimes.
Crack-
So in your mind slavery explains why blacks had higher marriage rates than whites from the 1890s through the 1960s, with marriage rates dropping off dramatically after that?
Pogo is Dead said...
That's false information, Crack. Marriage rates for blacks increased after the Civil War and matched white rates until the mid-1960s. Thomas Sowell did research on it.
But what kind of "families"? Sowell do any research on that?
Aw, gee, The Crack Emcee read my blog!
I am the product of a woman who gave birth to 7 kids by 4 different men - and she was "married" when I came along. And that wasn't unusual then - when MLK was still alive.
I give blacks credit for trying, but the scars are too deep,...
Jane the Actuary said...
Aw, gee, The Crack Emcee read my blog!
Yes, Jane, and I appreciate your interest.
schools where one out of every five teachers does not meet all state teaching requirements....
Beside being a rather contrived statistic, a RAND study says: "Teacher licensure test scores are unrelated to teacher success in the classroom."
http://educationrealist.wordpress.com/category/teacher-certification/
IOW, so what?
@Crack,
But what kind of "families"? Sowell do any research on that?
What is it about the words Marriage rates that's obscure?
Whites did not have magical powers that insured they got happy marriages. Did you miss out on "Anna Karenina", "Madame Bovary", and many other works of 18-19th C. literature that feature unhappily married white couples?
You guys with your damned statistics - they're telling you nothing about real people's lives:
BELOVED
That's what's been happening to black families for centuries.
And y'all, and your statistics, never noticed,...
Black families and Black communities were doing just fine long after slavery had ended.
Says Gahrie, which makes it so.
No....history says so.
No matter how much you and your leftists friends want to, you cannot change the facts.
Hey Crack..you linked a novel...in case no one has told you....that means it is not true.
How does those numbers compare with Black/Latino majority charter and (Religious/secular) high schools?
So Crack is correct in that pre-Civil War slavery damaged black marriages, but they did recover considerably, only to be damaged again by Welfare Slavery, the second Democrat slave state.
Gahrie said...
Hey Crack..you linked a novel...in case no one has told you....that means it is not true.
Now you're admitting you don't understand the purpose of novels.
Considering all that you DON'T KNOW, why do you comment again?
Considering all that you DON'T KNOW, why do you comment again?
You think novels are an accurate depiction of history, and should be cited in arguements about real ife, and you are commenting on what I don't know?
Pogo is Dead said...
So Crack is correct in that pre-Civil War slavery damaged black marriages, but they did recover considerably, only to be damaged again by Welfare Slavery, the second Democrat slave state.
Come on, Pogo. You're still arguing numbers. Black families have been jerry-rigged affairs from the days of "jumping' the broom". I've seen "families" where no one's related by blood, and you're going to tell me A) that counts, and B) it's the Democrat's fault?
Try America's,...
Crack: Actually Black marriage rates tracked white marriage rates up until the 1960s.
http://media.hoover.org/sites/default/files/documents/0817998721_95.pdf
Crack Emcee said:
I've seen "families" where no one's related by blood
I've seen those too. Married couples with adopted children.
It makes me think you guys imagine blacks had some magic wand to fix what slavery broke. We didn't - we endured is all. Families have always been meshed affairs - shit, I was taken into about 10 different homes, almost without question - and you think that's like white families?
I've been around white families, folks, and - while I'll agree the details can get hairy - it's not the same.
Insisting it is doesn't make it so,...
It's really sad the damage a hand out, as opposed to a hand up, can do for people.
We have this problem in charitable giving with our church. In the immediacy, people need assistance and they need it now. They need food, shelter, or clothing.
But in the long term, they need to learn how to help themselves. If they get to the point, through charitable giving, where they think it will continue forever, they become dependent and see no reason to do for themselves.
Children are the worst at this. And children in our schools are receiving all kinds of hand outs rather than hand ups. This is when they need to learn consequences, but instead, are constantly being protected from consequences.
This is why we homeschool. My wife is a much better teacher for my children than anyone else could ever be.
The marriage rates are facts that account in no small part for the abysmal education numbers Althouse posted
B said...
Crack Emcee said:
I've seen "families" where no one's related by blood
I've seen those too. Married couples with adopted children.
See? That's not what I'm talking about - it describes a "different" white family - but not a "different" black one.
BTW - I hate when whites try to be clever.
Let's try to keep it to a minimum, huh?
"It makes me think you guys imagine blacks had some magic wand to fix what slavery broke. We didn't - we endured is all. "
It doesn't sound, from what you're saying, like blacks did endure. It sounds more to me like you're saying blacks were broken by whites and whites need to fix what they broke.
Do I misunderstand?
Pogo is Dead said...
The marriage rates are facts that account in no small part for the abysmal education numbers Althouse posted
Still with the rates.
Man, you guys are hard-headed.
eric,
It doesn't sound, from what you're saying, like blacks did endure. It sounds more to me like you're saying blacks were broken by whites and whites need to fix what they broke.
Do I misunderstand?
Yes and no:
Yes - slavery has had profound effects on the lives of blacks to this day.
No - when this is your yard stick for success under the circumstances, we've done alright so far.
But there's a LOT of room for improvement.
Thanks for the link to the photo of Delia, Crack.
It led me to check out the background of her photo and other slaves. What profound dehumanization was visited upon them. Makes your "we've done alright so far" very much an understatement, I think.
Sister has made a career of teaching disadvantaged kids. Her school has some of the worst scores in the district and has been given the freedom to try fresh approaches. Every teacher was, in essence, released and had to apply anew for a job there. Because initially teachers received premium pay, they had some of the best in the area. Problem was, excellent teachers from prosperous schools couldn't hack it among uninterested students. They had a retired physicist from ORNL last only one year teaching math. Bottom line: an excellent teacher for your kids may not be for others. BTW, Sister has taught calculus when there was even one kid who wanted to take it. Algebra II gets taught every year even if half the kids fail.
Crack, despite the fact that your mother was a tremendous whore, this has no correlation with black illegitimacy rates nationwide.
The shit apple doesn't fall far from the shite tree, does it?
A recent survey revealed that the inner city schools have a student/teacher ratio of about 11 to 1. In the same school district, the predominantly white schools had a student/teacher ratio of about 23 to 1.
President-Mom-Jeans said...
Crack, despite the fact that your mother was a tremendous whore, this has no correlation with black illegitimacy rates nationwide.
BWAAAAA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!
If he makes ANY sense to one of the rest of you, one of you answer him:
Dealing with his type isn't worth it,...
"I am the product of a woman who gave birth to 7 kids by 4 different men - and she was "married" when I came along."
madAsHell said...
A recent survey revealed that the inner city schools have a student/teacher ratio of about 11 to 1. In the same school district, the predominantly white schools had a student/teacher ratio of about 23 to 1.
They also usually have grass, and up-to-date books, and the kids aren't impoverished, and,...
I'm glad you can laugh about what a tramp your mother is Crack.
I have been laughing quite a bit about it.
Jesus Tapdancing Christ, Crack is as poisonous as ST. And for about the same reason. I wouldn't want to run into either of those hateful characters in a dark alley.
Dave Schumann said...
Jesus Tapdancing Christ, Crack is as poisonous as ST.
Interesting. What - exactly - is "poisonous" here?
Interesting. What - exactly - is "poisonous" here?
The hatred, Crack. I know you're going to go off on a hateful rant about how you're not hateful, or possibly about how it's totally reasonable for you to be hateful, but you and ST are just radioactive.
Crack Emcee,
If you weren't talking about (race unspecified) "married couples with adopted children," then what did you mean by saying you knew of "families" containing no blood ties at all? Even if your mom had seven children by four men, all the children are hers, and all of them are at least half-siblings to one another.
I Have Misplaced My Pants,
A heartbreaking story, and one absolutely typical, way past the middle on the anecdote --> data continuum. It makes you want positively to scream sometimes. Please, people, pay attention.
These kids seem to be doing okay in school. 98% black student body. South side of Chicago.
And these kids as well.
And other kids in similar schools. Charter schools mostly, where students are held to high standards of discipline, academics, and community service.
High expectations and leadership are everything, in schools and in parenting.
Dave Schumann said...
Interesting. What - exactly - is "poisonous" here?
The hatred, Crack. I know you're going to go off on a hateful rant about how you're not hateful, or possibly about how it's totally reasonable for you to be hateful, but you and ST are just radioactive.
Again, first "poisonous" now "hateful".
Evidence on this thread?
Crack
It just isn't true that Beloved is the story of the African-American family. I don't know why you say things like that.
Yeah, there was this thing called slavery, that broke up black families, and pretty much makes everything America says a joke sometimes.
I call bull shit on crack. It was AFDC that expelled fathers by rewarding single mothers for each baby born.
Michelle Dulak Thomson,
If you weren't talking about (race unspecified) "married couples with adopted children," then what did you mean by saying you knew of "families" containing no blood ties at all? Even if your mom had seven children by four men, all the children are hers, and all of them are at least half-siblings to one another.
I grew up in a house with 13 kids - not a single one was legally adopted or the product of the couple.
wildswan said...
Crack
It just isn't true that Beloved is the story of the African-American family. I don't know why you say things like that.
Because that's where I grew up, and Toni Morrison, too, and I think we know better.
(sorry; you'll have to copy/paste into your browser; I don't have time to copy/paste the proper HTML code.)
@ Jane....in the time it took you to type that sentence, you could have typed the HTML code [href="your link">words that are highlighted to activate link]
Brackets added to keep it from being a fake link.
The schools teach to the lowest common denominator. Teachers are woefully unprepared and some are shockingly ignorant. We are doomed as a country if we continue to fail those students who want to learn. We are turning out uneducated, illiterates. Children received a better education in the 1700's in a one room school house.
We should be ashamed as a country. We should be AFRAID as a country.
Sheesh...blogger keeps rewriting my html code.
Bah.
drywilly,
I call bull shit on crack. It was AFDC that expelled fathers by rewarding single mothers for each baby born.
"Call" all you want. You guys give mystical powers to government programs they don't deserve. Just like you do the Democrats:
It's their magic powers over black's minds that draw us to them - not the more rational explanation that MLK told us not to vote with Republicans.
Stop telling yourselves stories and learn fort a change:
That's all anybody's waiting for you to do:
Stop being Paul Ryan, thinking you're going to tell us something, and listen you what we're telling you:
It's the only way to help or understand,..
It was AFDC that expelled fathers.....
P. J. O'Roarke in about 1983,
Please Mr. congressman,
can't you see
You've got to take away my AFDC,
I did the lovin, I had the fun,
let me pay for this young 'un.
Stop being Paul Ryan, thinking you're going to tell us something,
Paul Ryan wasn't talking to you.
Paul Ryan was talking to White America, and he was telling them that inner city poverty would never be solved as long as it was left up to governments. He told White America to get their ass of the couch, go down to the inner city and help out. Then he was called a racist.
I think the best teachers for *low income* students doesn't need to be that smart, just smarter than the students and able to get their attention. Subjects should be taught by older rote methods - multiplication tables, phonics, memorization & declamation..the new gimicky progressive ed tricks work only on those who don't need it.
The soft bigotry of low expectations.
FORWARD!
Carol said...
I think the best teachers for *low income* students doesn't need to be that smart, just smarter than the students and able to get their attention. Subjects should be taught by older rote methods - multiplication tables, phonics, memorization & declamation..the new gimicky progressive ed tricks work only on those who don't need it.
I saw a white lady handle a busload of unruly black boys so expertly it blew my mind. Her technique:
She told them they were "nice boys" - and they were.
Honoring their sense of dignity was all it took.
You don't do that declaring their's something wrong with them, their culture, their music, or whatever. You also don't bring up Charles Murray.
And Gahrie, that's why he was called a racist.
Chicken/egg problem. Those schools probably didn't have enough students asking for those classes.
OTOH, if people had listened to Patrick Moynihan in the 60s.....
So I go take the kids to the playground and when I come back, all hell has broken loose!
Crack Emcee said,
"I am the product of a woman who gave birth to 7 kids by 4 different men - and she was "married" when I came along. And that wasn't unusual then - when MLK was still alive."
and that's the key. Everyone kind of missed this. Black families were unstable long before the bogey-man of welfare came along (Lemann, in the book I referenced in my link earlier, says that it was sharecropping that destroyed black families by destroying black men). It's just that the growth in welfare meant that they stopped bothering with the marriages.
Jane the Actuary,
And that "married" was not to my father.
That's how I ended up in a house with 13 kids. There's informal foster homes, set up all over the ghettoes, even today. Unlike the cynical view, presented by some here, some do it to get a bit of financial stability (working, off the books, while collecting for the kids) most do it out of love and community.
The idea of women having kids, without men around, just to collect a government stipend makes no logical sense, if you understand how incentives work. I mean, that's a lousy trade-off. And even for those for which it might be true, you have to consider what their lives were like before the government threw them a lifeline. Like I said, you're talking about a culture's endurance test, individually and collectively. It ain't no picnic.
Most black people are making some very hard decisions every single day,...
They don't need algebra II to know this won't work
@Jane,
(Lemann, in the book I referenced in my link earlier, says that it was sharecropping that destroyed black families by destroying black men)
Jane, we didn't miss it. Most of the folks who disagreed with Crack's history of the black family provided our sources, too.
I have Lemann's book & read it when it first came out. It is primarily about the forces that shaped the great post-war Northern migration & what cultural baggage the southern blacks brought North with them. It was not meant to be a detailed, long term historical study of the black family like Gutman, Sowell, Ricketts, et al referenced above.
To say that we have here are historians who see the topic of the black family in post Civil war America very differently is a fair cop. Historians often disagree on the most basic of topics. But to assert that those of us who disagree with Lemann's history somehow are missing the boat is simply not a fair cop.
Paul Ryan works 113 days per year, been collecting goverment checks his entire life, married money, and he has the gall to call someone else lazy? Dude works less hours than commenter President Moms Jeans.
mccullough said...
They don't need algebra II to know this won't work
Yeah, but there's the key, right there in the first paragraph - the problem is
"in states that fail to draw large numbers of enrollees for 2014, including some states that have been hostile to the healthcare law"
In other words, ObamaCare needs full participation to work - patriotism, if you will - and the we-don't-want-to-help-nobody Right won't go along. So we ALL get a disaster. Bra-vo!
Good luck with that much-needed outreach program, guys,...
Welfare is not a lifeline, it is an anchor. The government provided a subsidy which was normalized and not only displaced but discouraged productivity enterprise. With each succeeding generation, this enabled ignoring the original and growing problem.
Obamacare fails because it addresses neither affordability (other than through progressive subsidies) and availability (other than through legal triage). It was designed to capture private capital in order to compensate for the consequences of bubble economics (e.g. trillion dollar deficits), including stagnant economic development, devaluation of capital and labor.
Obamacare was especially critical to maintain stability in highly financed and subsidized districts. Similar to other welfare programs, Obamacare is designed to preserve the status quo, but will serve to exacerbate it. It could have been successful on a smaller scale, where economic productivity originates, but instead they chose to ignore the problem, and up the ante.
Crack: "In other words, ObamaCare needs full participation to work - patriotism, if you will - and the we-don't-want-to-help-nobody Right won't go along."
LOL
There it is.
Failure to get aboard the socialism train is "unpatriotic".
Predictable.
Inevitable.
Stalin couldn't have said it better.
Honoring their sense of dignity was all it took.
If dignity is the key, then all hope is lost. Government hand outs and set asides by their very nature destroy a person's dignity.
I lived in France - a purely socialist state by American standards - and we're nothing like that. You know why?
We're Americans.
Try your dogma on somebody who doesn't see this stuff in action from ground level.
And, Drago, if banning anything with even a hint of socialism to it is your answer to our problems then you're an even bigger political lightweight than you let on.
"Be a person - LISTEN."
Crack if it makes you feel any better, Garage is lily white and he has a failed marriage as well. He has not stated if his mother was as much of a slut as yours though. I wouldn't be surprised.
Consider it reparations.
He also has obesity and most likely diabetes.
Bonus reparations!
There should not be a single child left behind. That's why we're careful to hold them back as a group.
President-Mom-Jeans said...
Crack if it makes you feel any better, Garage is lily white and he has a failed marriage as well. He has not stated if his mother was as much of a slut as yours though. I wouldn't be surprised.
You HAVE to be a small man, in so many ways,...
Once Crack gets into the thread, I stop reading.
Before that: "And believe me, there's a direct tie between having inadequate schools and having inadequate parents."
Not totally true. The most pro-voucher segment of American society is black parents. There is a lottery to get into voucher and charter schools. The teachers' union cares NOTHING about children. It is all about teacher salaries and benefits.
Jesse Jackson was down in Peoria IL a few years ago protesting some black boys who were expelled for criminal behavior. The race hustlers trump black parents who WANT to educate their kids and need help.
Crack: "And, Drago, if banning anything with even a hint of socialism to it is your answer to our problems then you're an even bigger political lightweight than you let on"
LOL
I can see why you have to put words in my mouth when your words mark you as a complete frigging buffoon.
Note: I didn't say a thing about "banning" anything.
You, like all leftists, made the flat statement that a leftist policy needs everyone aboard to "work" (however that is defined) and connoted "patriotism".
So, yes, I can see why you want to avoid addressing your moronic statements and instead seek to create plenty of (white) strawman.
Maybe you should spend more time thinking about what you say instead of assigning words not said to someone else.
When you said you were "semi-educated" you were more right than even you know.
Adios loser.
Adios: a spanish word used by latinos who are driving blacks out of their shared neighborhoods by force in many cities.
I wonder why that is?
You could throw 5 times, or even 10 times more money at these badly underperforming inner city schools, and I suspect the results would only marginally improve, if at all.
Without better parenting and values at home - and especially valuing education and teaching some discipline - any significant additional money would have minimal impact.
Well the, let them home school. Maybe their fathers can teach them Algebra and Chemistry.
Oh. Wait.
The Crack Emcee,
I grew up in a house with 13 kids - not a single one was legally adopted or the product of the couple.
But how many were the "product" of the mother, the matriarch? Were there literally no blood ties at all?
Mind you, I can see such a thing happening -- say, a religieuse informally "adopting" a variety of street urchins -- but it must be vanishingly rare.
Michelle Dulak Thomson,
"But how many were the "product" of the mother, the matriarch? Were there literally no blood ties at all?
Nope - not a single one.
"Mind you, I can see such a thing happening -- say, a religieuse informally "adopting" a variety of street urchins -- but it must be vanishingly rare."
Not in black communities. Very common. Always has been. There was a woman who pulled off a fraud in the book world exploiting it.
Mr.CrackEmcee,
Believe me, his penis is small, soooo small. I almost didn't marry him when I first saw it. At first I thought it was due to an accident of some sort, so short, leaned to the right and not even as wide as my thumb, I felt sorry for him. When we would have sex, I would daydream about a big healthy black man's member in me instead of MomJeans pathetic little dicky. I learned that his previous girlfriend took pictures of it when he was asleep and posted it in all sorts of places. I've filed for divorce because he is sterile, not only can that shrimp of a dick not satisfy a woman, it shoots blanks. That's why he is so mean and hateful, penis envy.
BTW - I knew about that case because the fraudster went to the High School I was bussed into:
Ms. Seltzer said she had met some gang members during a short stint she said she spent at “Grant” high school “in the Valley.” (A Google search identifies Ulysses S. Grant High School, a school on 34 acres in the Valley Glen neighborhood in the east-central San Fernando Valley.) “It opened my mind to the fact that not everybody is as they are portrayed on the news,” she said. “Everything’s not that black and white or gray or brown.”
Here is an actual conversation from the year 2013 held with a 15 year old student in 7th grade at the inner city school I recently retired from.
LeCharles - Mr. Surfed. What be this curly line with a dot?
Me - That's called a question mark LeCharles.
Wow, I struck enough of a nerve to get a parody account. Maybe that other old sock-puppeting whore, Inga.
I feel honored.
What exactly is disputed? That Garage is white? That he also caused a broken family? You told us what a gutter sloot your mother is in this very thread.
surfed said...
Here is an actual conversation from the year 2013 held with a 15 year old student in 7th grade at the inner city school I recently retired from.
LeCharles - Mr. Surfed. What be this curly line with a dot?
Me - That's called a question mark LeCharles.
Like I said, if this is your yardstick, it starts to make more sense,...
MomJeans, you pathetic little prick. I want a real man like Crack, I bet he knows what to do with his stuff, I bet he can make me moan, unlike you, little dicky. You once told me you tried to enlarge your penis by pulling on it, it DID NOT WORK! I want a divorce!
"Too many American children are segregated into schools without standards, shuffled from grade-to-grade because of their age, regardless of their knowledge. This is discrimination, pure and simple -- the soft bigotry of low expectations. And our nation should treat it like other forms of discrimination: We should end it."
--George W. Bush, Speech to Republican National Convention Aug 3, 2000
"Honoring their sense of dignity was all it took."
My dad, for 20 years, was a special education teacher in group homes, continuation high schools, and for the last decade, juvenile halls. He taught literature and literacy.
Was very good at it, and precisely because of what Crack points to here. He treated them like people. And he saw that the first stage of response wasn't to force them to fit into a prescribed pattern, it was to meet them where they were at and provide a path for them to learn how to enjoy school, giving them moments of success at each stage. Treated them with respect and helped them find confidence in contexts where they were, for the most part, shamed and embarrassed from early ages.
Part of his strategy he likened to triage, quick assessment and response, addressing the core issue. Some he realized were not saveable. Too far gone with drugs or other issues. Instead of spending time with them, he focused on the number of kids who cared, who could learn still. Almost all the kids who started in his class were illiterate or functionally illiterate. Those who stuck to it, started studying, they started learning, reading, step by step. Quoting Shakespeare or Dickens after a while. Mixed backgrounds, as San Bernardino county has.
He was fired. Too old and was costing the county money. Settled lawsuit meant he retired early instead with pay covering his "fired" year.
Before that there was an attempt to fire him for "racism." The incident was he prevented one student from crashing the desk onto another student's head. The first student, and his mom, claimed he used racial epithets. The principal, black woman, made a huge case, eager to toss him out because of his non-conventional approaches and other reasons that seemed to have their own racial overtones (did not want white teachers). Every other student in the class backed up my dad with testimony, the staff backed him up.
Fully credentialed (clear multiple subject special ed credential, which is the peak of CA status), very successful, treated students with respect. But, he didn't fit the politics and he was too experienced. Replaced by long term subs with minimal experience and much less pay.
Are we surprised?
The educational establishment and the society that produced it has given up on a whole group of students.
It does not matter whether a significant part of the learning issues are caused by the "culture" from which black and latino kids emerge. There are plenty of white kids who emerge from similar "cultures" and they have similar problems educationally. This is very clear where I live.
Furthermore, no algebra II, which is the very minimum math at high school level? Some of the kids in every school can handle this topic. Yet they do not even offer it.
It's just too glib to blame "culture" and "family instability" for this failure to try to educate our children. A starved curriculum, unqualified teachers and a lack of educational effort would not be tolerated in most affluent communities. We should not tolerate it in any community.
Yes the people in the communities have an obligation to improve the "culture." But if when they are not effective the educators and the politicians have to continue to aim high, not give up because the students are poorly prepared.
Finally the notion that these communities do not "value education" is not correct. They value it very highly, or at least most people do. But many do not know how to require that their children get a valuable education, and others certainly are overwhelmed. Their lives are difficult. But their children deserve good schools, not the hollow husks that exist in some communities.
Bush was right about "the soft bigotry of low expectations." Except it's not soft.
garage mahal said...
Cutting funding might help?
Damn it, Garage, even on a subject where we probably strongly agree on many things, you publish glib stupidity.
By and large the schools with these kinds of deficiencies are adequately funded. But they are not adequately run. All of the complaints about inability to discipline kids, poorly socialized kids, bad attitudes, low expectations etc are correct. We have been throwing funding at these issues for decades, and with little result. Now we need to wise up. Empower (demand) the teachers to exercise discipline. Let inadequate teachers be fired. Realize that the kids do need social support and provide it. Evaluate teachers on results.
And most importantly, allow alternative schools (Charter, if you want to use that name) to create an environment of choice for the poor and disadvantaged.
The affluent have this choice and exercise it regularly in decisions on where to live.
Disadvantaged kids deserve no less.
A panacea? Of course not. But a step in the right direction.
Jane the Actuary said...
You know, I've come to the conclusion that black families were troubled long before the rise of welfare with the War on Poverty, but that increased availability of welfare benefits meant that black mothers didn't need to put up with husbands that were of little use anyway.
Where I live, until desegregation came, black children went to school for many less days a year than whites. The teachers were lower paid, less well educated and less numerous as a ratio to students than for whites. In the 19th century there were hardly anything that you would recognize as a school, except for the Rosenwald schools and a few abolitionist holdover privately funded institutions operating on a shoestring. There was no transportation to and from school for black provided. Many black children did not get beyond the 8th grade.
This is the legacy, and it's a legacy of racism. Blacks who went north and west carried this legacy with them, and had to overcome it. Blacks who stayed here had to overcome it. It was and still is damn hard to overcome.
W.E.B. Dubois estimated that about 5% of American slaves were literate to some degree when emancipation came. This is a guess based on his deep experience in studying the culture. It's as good an estimate as we are going to get.
Yet less than 50 years after emancipation black literacy rates had increased greatly. Some blacks, generally the more exceptional in terms of drive and will, became quite well educated. The educational system had damn little to do with this. Families and communities educated each other to a degree not generally realized.
Blacks have aspired to education since slavery ended and before. Getting that education has been extraordinarily difficult by comparison to the opportunities for whites. In many ways what has been achieved is a basis for praise and respect for the black community, not criticism.
But now we have been stuck for two generations, going on three. The overall progress has stopped. To say that this is because blacks lack respect for or admiration for education is (in a word) ignorant.
The desire is still there. The ability to access it is what is lacking. To a very large degree, that lack of access is still caused by willingness of the society to write blacks off when it comes to education.
We have to stop writing people off, as individuals and groups.
@Michael K 7:20pm
Crack really is a one trick pony and he certainly ruins a thread in a hurry.
I appreciate your comments on medical matters.
"The ability to access it is what is lacking."
Well said, David.
Some here call that "playing the victim," a phrase which - anybody SHOULD be able to see - is ANOTHER attempt to strip people, who don't deserved to be punished, of their dignity. It reminds me of what the NewAgers do:
Sell you a bogus medicine and then, when it doesn't work, they say it's because you didn't believe enough or weren't using it right.
You CAN'T win.
But now it's conservatives,...
I bet the charter schools that Deblasio wants to shut down have chemistry classes.
"Black students are suspended and expelled at three times the rate of white students"
Kids, whatever their race, are not expelled because the school wants to suspend them. Rather they are expelled because of behavior. So then why are black kids engaging in behavior that would get them expelled at 3x the rate of whites?
And again, theres that bogus statistic that supposedly proves racism. Why are we determining that if more blacks are expelled than whites that it proves something racist. There is no quota system for expelling kids, and as such the rate of expelled kids will match the kids who get expelled and will not correspond to population models.
I bet you the blacks who get suspended are not the uncle toms who talk white and do stuff like do well in school.
crack Emcee wrote:
Yeah, there was this thing called slavery, that broke up black families, and pretty much makes everything America says a joke sometimes.
Slavery was hundreds of years ago. After slavery the black family remained intact. Until relatively recently.Black families seemed to be intact even through segregation.
So, slavery is not the reason.
Hey, check it out - I was right (again):
From my fingers to your eyes,...
jr565,
"Slavery was hundreds of years ago."
1865 was hundreds of years ago. Math also isn't your strong suit.
Try two 70-year olds, living and dying back-to-back. That's how "long ago" it was. Which is why blacks are just now counting up a lot of "firsts". Get it?
You're awash in a lie, jr. James Baldwin said it first:
"White People are Trapped in a History they Don't Understand"
And you are the evidence,...
But what kind of "families"? Sowell do any research on that?
Intact familiies? Ones with fathers and mothers?
BTW - jr,
I don't say that just to ridicule you (though you are deserving):
That history has been DELIBERATELY kept from you is also a legacy of slavery.
"I am the product of a woman who gave birth to 7 kids by 4 different men - and she was "married" when I came along."
Is that a black thing though? Plenty of whites are not particularly responsible with their sex. And, more than anything isn't it a personal responsibility argument?
jr565,
"Isn't it a personal responsibility argument?"
Only if you do, what you always try to do, and rip the context from our lives.
Stop dreaming, jr.
Crack Emcee wrote:
You don't do that declaring their's something wrong with them, their culture, their music, or whatever. You also don't bring up Charles Murray.
That there is a perfect example of putting your head in the sand. Statistics tell a story.If you want to say that everything is peachy keen in the black community, then why is Althouse making posts about how badly black kids are doing in school?
And if you don't talk about other peoples culture and calling it wrong, why are you on about white culture?
jr565,
That there is a perfect example of putting your head in the sand.
You just said slavery was hundreds of years ago - you totally ignore the correction - and now you want to come back like a boxer ready to score a knock-out.
You're hilarious, jr.
Crack wrote:
"In other words, ObamaCare needs full participation to work - patriotism, if you will - and the we-don't-want-to-help-nobody Right won't go along."
not even the young people who need to enroll to get Obamacare to work are enrolling in the numbers needed. Maybe, just maybe it's not that republicans don't want to help nobody. Maybe it's that they think Obamacare won't do what democrats claim.
So, here we are in the absolute shithole center of hell.
Another night of Crack's demented rants about racism and slavery.
And, there is still somebody who wants to get down in that hellhole of shit and venom with him.
Amazing!
Crack Emcee wrote:
1865 was hundreds of years ago. Math also isn't your strong suit.
My bad. I meant to say more than a century and a half ago, which is getting close to two hundreds of years. But fair enough. It's still a long time. And the black family didn't fall apart after slavery.
Crack Emcee wrote:You just said slavery was hundreds of years ago - you totally ignore the correction - and now you want to come back like a boxer ready to score a knock-out.
The plain fact is I wrote my posts in a block and didn't see your response that I said hundreds instead more than 150 years. And you'll notice I made a correction to my inaccuracy. The rest still stands.
David: "The desire is still there. The ability to access it is what is lacking. To a very large degree, that lack of access is still caused by willingness of the society to write blacks off when it comes to education."
And yet.
And yet.
Some black children in NYC were attending charter schools that their parents loved and were giving them a chance at a decent education until...
...a white socialist (whom Crack and his pals put in office) yanked those charter schools right out from underneath those poor, lower middle class and middle class families.
Why?
Because the lefties don't like competition.
And crack and his pals are totally, 100%, cool with white guy socialist DeBlasio tossing those black kids back into failing schools.
So please David and Crack, do go on telling us how all those conservatives are keeping the black kids down.
You. Can't. Make. This. Stuff. Up.
David wrote:
The desire is still there. The ability to access it is what is lacking. To a very large degree, that lack of access is still caused by willingness of the society to write blacks off when it comes to education.
We have to stop writing people off, as individuals and groups.
Explain that. How are blacks denied access to education? Schools are requirements for all kids and public schools are free. If there is a deficit it's in how the union run schools are actually teaching the kids, and a reluctance of many students to care about being educated, but you can't make the argument that somehow we haven't made education a priority.
David: "Disadvantaged kids deserve no less."
The left wants no one to have any choices in education.
It's the gov't union lefty-run schools for everyone!!
There is no way in hell you crazies are getting anywhere near my kids.
Ever.
Crack Emcee wrote:
LeCharles - Mr. Surfed. What be this curly line with a dot?
Me - That's called a question mark LeCharles.
Like I said, if this is your yardstick, it starts to make more sense,...
Understanding of basic punctuation should be a yard for you too. Especially when we are talking about educating black kids. That's the kind of stuff they're supposed to be learning.
And I don't see how slavery would prevent you from learning punctuation. Are the schools not teaching it? Then, why are we paying them money?
Drago, I have never said conservatives are holding this down. Quite the opposite. I believe that the liberals have been in charge of much of education, and have failed miserably. The opposition to competition in education via charter schools is a prime example.
I don't know where Crack stands on DeBlasio, but I think he's a captive of the unions on this issue.
As to Jr565, if you b believe that blacks have equal access to education, there's no use arguing with you.
My point is stop blaming the kids. We have a responsibility to them, plain and simple, and it's not being fulfilled. We need a total revolution in how we approach this issue.
Drago wrote:
And crack and his pals are totally, 100%, cool with white guy socialist DeBlasio tossing those black kids back into failing schools.
Where, apparently black kids are 3x more likely to be expelled and where some are so illiterate they don't know what a question mark is.
And of course, pointing out those stats to David or Crack leads to a lesson on the wrongness of slavery as opposed to actually having an education system that teaches basic punctuation.
We shouldn't make excuses for kids who are failing. It leads to a life of them falling through the cracks.
Which I'm sure Crack would argue was due to the vestiges of slavery.
Black kids who aren't being expelled and know what a question mark is are able to make it through. Why are they capable despite the history of slavery, but not others.
One because they are not using it as an excuse. And two it's because they are making their education a priority.
As to Jr565, if you b believe that blacks have equal access to education, there's no use arguing with you
Why don't Black kids have equal access to education? Most of them are in schools run by Black school boards and staffed with Black administrators and Black teachers. There is no vast cabal of racist Whites destroying these kids' education.
No, Jr, many of the schools are not teaching punctuation. And this is just not for schools for the poor. But I can tell you as a 100% certainty that in these badly underperforming schools, many teachers do not even bother to try to correct punctuation, because they figure it's not worth the effort. And yes some of those students are black, disproportionately so, and some of their teachers are black. In other words, the rot in the system is so bad that black teachers write off black students. Which proves little about the "nature" of blacks and a lot about the nature of our schools.
David wrote: As to Jr565, if you believe that blacks have equal access to education, there's no use arguing with you."
To public education, absolutely. You are required to go to school. And so, you have access to public school. Unless you're cutting school. Or getting expelled. Do they have as much access to college? Well, access to college is based on how well you do in school prior to college. I can't imagine how that wouldn't limit your opportunity.
Is the education they have a good one? No it's terrible. But thats not for lack of trying or lack of funding.
"My point is stop blaming the kids. We have a responsibility to them, plain and simple, and it's not being fulfilled. We need a total revolution in how we approach this issue. "
Lets be honest. We were all kids who went to school. Yes some teachers are terrible, but I remember that in school some kids applied themselves and some wouldn't even show up for class or would be disruptive the entire time they were there .And I similarly know that the times I did badly in school was not because the teachers were bad. It was because I didn't care. I'd rather hang out with friends then go to class. I was responsible for my education path.
And, there is still somebody who wants to get down in that hellhole of shit and venom with him.
I personally am replying for the record. The historian in me would hate for some bored research assistant 2,000 years from now to stumble across the Althouse blog, read Crack's shit and think we were all bugfuck crazy like him.
David wrote:
But I can tell you as a 100% certainty that in these badly underperforming schools, many teachers do not even bother to try to correct punctuation, because they figure it's not worth the effort.
Because the kid is in high school, and doesn't know what he should have learned in grade school. I attended a public school that was integrated in NYC. And all kids learned the same lessons. We learned about question marks. Including the black kids. Even then there were some kids that simply didn't make school their priority.
But I can tell you as a 100% certainty that in these badly underperforming schools, many teachers do not even bother to try to correct punctuation, because they figure it's not worth the effort.
I teach at a Sourthern California surburban high school with 80%+ Hispanic and free lunch populations. This year I had a paid consultant tell me not to grade for spelling, punctuation or grammar. ( I teach History) When I complained loudly and longly, she went to my principal, who called me on the carpet and agreed with her.
This is not to say that public education is great, and it's all the kids fault. It's terrible. but even if it is, its up to the individual to educate themselves ultimately. They have to do the work and the homework. If they don't, they won't get educated.
Gahrie,
I teach at a Sourthern California surburban high school
That is some scary shit to contemplate,...
"Why don't Black kids have equal access to education? Most of them are in schools run by Black school boards and staffed with Black administrators and Black teachers. There is no vast cabal of racist Whites destroying these kids' education."
1. You are wrong on the facts. Check out Chicago and Milwaukee, for example.
2. You don't need a vast cabal. You just need low expectations and lack of urgency and effort and innovation.
With exceptions, schools are white dominated, either through local boards or state and federal officials. Look who is running education for Obama.
One exception is Atlanta, and their performance is terrible, especially the defense of falsification of test results.
The fact that blacks run some schools or school systems really does not excuse the society. It actually has little to do with the issue. The society as a whole continues to tolerate what should be intolerable.
In any class there's a percentage of kids that are there to learn, and won't let anything get in the way of their learning. They usually have parents that hold them to account and make them do school work when they get home. and make them feel like they should be ashamed if they don't do well.
and then there's a larger percentage of kids who don't want to be there, don't pay attenion while there and don't do the school work when home. Those are usually the ones getting expelled, and/or failing out.
obviously, what's needed is wealth distribution so that poorer school districts, where most adults are on some kind of public assistance can have schools as good as the suburban ones. You can thank "progressive" policies for the root cause of this mess.
The 3 things I'm taking away from the article, press release and looking at the Department of Education site.
1) The Dept of Ed. wants more money to spend on improving science and math education for minority students.
2) They're also going to start suing school systems that disproportionately punish Black students.
3) Schools are going to have to spend money to collect data on student infractions and discipline.
David wrote:
You don't need a vast cabal. You just need low expectations and lack of urgency and effort and innovation.
Who, by the way is providing the low expectations? People are pointing out that blacks are being expelled at 3x the rate of whites and some in class don't even know what question marks are. And what are the cracks' of the world's response?
What do expect because of slavery.
And for those who are sending their kids to charter schools to actually get their kids to learn, what is the response from the left? Shut those schools down.
I don't know too many charter schools that need to doctor their test scores, and I don't know too many families of kids in charter schools that don't force their kids to apply themselves.
i don't understand the ad hominem attacks against user: The Crack Emcee's mother. especially when he's been pretty civil throughout. i guess some white people have no sense of decency.
xmas wrote:
2) They're also going to start suing school systems that disproportionately punish Black students.
Disproportionate to what? Are they going to doctor test scores if it's shown that certain groups can't pass the test?
Why do the Chinese and the Jews seem to succeed wherever they land, despite massive antagonism and even venomous hatred?
In contrast, why do certain groups, the lower Irish classes (my ancestors) among them, seem to degrade whatever community they join?
I do not think it is genetic, and believe that the key to success lies in emulating the former and rejecting the latter.
Dividing the spoils of the victim cult is a fool's game, in the end.
Pogo is Dead said...
Why do the Chinese and the Jews seem to succeed wherever they land, despite massive antagonism and even venomous hatred?
Two ancient intact cultures.
In contrast, why do certain groups, the lower Irish classes (my ancestors) among them, seem to degrade whatever community they join?
In this country - with it's history? This should explain it.
I do not think it is genetic, and believe that the key to success lies in emulating the former and rejecting the latter.
You can't "emulate" having an ancient culture with slavery in your past. Blacks try to connect, whites tease, it's brutal.
Dividing the spoils of the victim cult is a fool's game, in the end.
Easy for you to say,...
Well, then you lose.
Game over.
Too bad, and nothing anyone can do about it.
I disagree with your fatalism, but I cannot fix it, nor can anyone.
Crack Emcee wrote:You can't "emulate" having an ancient culture with slavery in your past.
Tell that to all the black people who succeeded in life, or got through high school even.
Pogo wrote:
Well, then you lose.
Game over.
Too bad, and nothing anyone can do about it.
I disagree with your fatalism, but I cannot fix it, nor can anyone.
Exactly! What does crack think the remedy is or should be at this point? If blacks can't rise because of slavery why did we ever bother integrating them into America? Or, if why did they want to integrate themselves?
r565 said...
Crack Emcee wrote:You can't "emulate" having an ancient culture with slavery in your past.
Tell that to all the black people who succeeded in life, or got through high school even.
Yeah - we're all supposed to be Jordan. And Obama's individual success means racism disappeared - even though you're still here.
How long ago was slavery again, Einstein?
You're truly an amazing "thinker"
So there's no way I can be Jim Thorpe. My success is doomed. After all, my people have been condemned to socialist "reservations" and I am owed a square mile of the country.
Meanwhile, fuck The Crack Emcee. I guess I will try to succeed on my own merit instaed of letting dead people dominate my destiny.
"A quarter of high schools with the highest percentage of black and Latino students do not offer any Algebra II courses..."
A strong back is a terrible thing to waste.
Every word out of Crack these days is "racist". Every single fucking word. What a sad man@!
I don't have time to read the 190+ comments preceding this one, so I'll just go ahead and tell about my experience in Algebra I.
I was the only student in that class that did not speak Spanish and did not understand the instructions spoken in Spanish. Now, whether that background and my ultimate poor grades in mathematics stemmed from that class... well, I doubt it.
The next semester, I was in a geometry class where English was the language used to teach it to a mostly bilingual class, but still Spanish was the most spoken language. I understood almost every word that I cared to pay attention to, but... somehow I managed to learn not a damn thing. Why? Because I was napping.
The 2nd half of that year, I read novels hidden by the larger math textbooks in a high school populated by and taught by Anglo teachers exclusively using English.
Then I landed in the 5th high school I attended in Texas. At the end of my junior year, I took the ACT and SAT tests. My grades in math were so poor compared to my scores on those standardized tests that I was accused of cheating!
This is why I don't pay a lot of attention to the whining about language or test scores or bad teachers or... any of the other the flags flown by either side.
When I got to college, I finally found a teacher who explained to me that mathematics was a language of its own -- it didn't matter what language one grew up speaking.
And, I finally learned that in other STEM subjects -- especially chemistry, you either get it or you don't. That too is a language apart.
As is biology.
If there's a tragedy in education, it's not that one language isn't taught, it's that multiple languages aren't.
vicari valdez:
If you don't understand the attacks on The Crack Emcee, you must be new around here. It's only been a week or two since he was telling all the white people arguing with him (or maybe it was all white people without exception) that he hoped their mothers would be raped by black men. When I called him on that, he said he hoped my mother specifically would be raped by black men.
Of course, that sounds kind of racist, suggesting that being raped by black men is worse than being raped by men of other races, but that's what he said. He deserves no respect whatsoever, because he goes out of his way to earn the contempt of pretty much everyone.
Ah, the 'he did it first' excuse.
I don't let my five year old use that one, but here there are adults throwing the cuss words around, so we will pretend its different.
Who needs Algebra II when "victim studies" and "how to be a whiner" are offered down the hall?
My favorite class in the government run school system is: "Hollywood trivia, grown up babysitting and twaddle".
Combine that with "victim studies" and FORWARD!
"How to scam the welfare system" is also helpful as an elective.
Alex said...
Every word out of Crack these days is "racist". Every single fucking word. What a sad man@!
And every word out of y'all is "liberal" or something about slagging minorities. Every single fucking word.
And you see no difference?
What a bunch of sad little conservatives!
@Crack
You're a psychotic mess.
Shut up. Stop answering people. Stop formulating replies.
Your problems are all personal.
Find something to do. Get out from in front of your damned computer. Cease cutting and pasting shit from the web.
Your first problem is that you have nothing to do. Look for a job, asshole. The Big Man musician dream failed. It's no longer available.
Cease pissing on other people because the Big Man dream failed and find something to do with your life.
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