ADDED: In case you don't watch the clip, I wanted to transcribe Jerry's sarcasm when the topic of racial diversity if first introduced: "Take a look around" — gesturing at the audience — "what do you see? A lot of whities! What's going on here? Oh, this really pisses me off!"
Apparently, Seinfeld is getting criticized for this. I see Dave, in the comments, said:
Seinfeld's response is intriguing because a safer answer would have been so easy — "well, that's just who I've had on so far, it's been a random walk, there are plenty of funny women/minorities in the industry, I'm sure I'll have more of them on in the future, yadda yadda yadda." Say that, and no critical pieces get written about him.I don't think that would have been a safe answer, because he's done so many of his shows — "Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee" — with white males, too many to fit the excuse that he just hasn't gotten around to it yet. I think what we're reading there is safer than other things he thinks: The coffee conversation works best when he's with someone who's more like him. He is favoring his own kind — and his own kind is a minority group that has done especially well in comedy. He was being P.C. not to mention that. Quotas were used against Jews in the old days, and any sort of counting and calculating in an effort to make the comedy community look like America, would hurt Jewish males the most. His people.
But he didn't. This sentiment must have been festering inside him. He must have wanted to get this out there. I wonder why that is. Fascinating really.
An appeal to race-and-gender blindness may be the best he can do. When I first blogged the clip, I thought Seinfeld chose to tweak us with something he knew would go viral. He's pushing a show. People need to see that he has a show and bother to watch it. But this morning, reading Dave's comment, I'm more willing to think the interviewer's question opened a portal to an angry place inside him. Notice that his very first outburst is a hostile "Yeah, let's get into that."
পোস্টগুলি
৭৫টি মন্তব্য:
alternate story
populate the show with white males and everybody is a candidate fr laughter directed at them. Fill it with women or minorities and they get immunities...
Our Black Foremothers, to name just one book, is comedy gold.
Seinfeld reveals the rift between the educated and the smart.
The "calculating" he talks about is tragically the sum total of what passes as the critical thinking skills that millions acquired in exchange for their tuition money and debt.
And it's hard to admit to oneself much less others that that ain't worth shit, especially when it becomes so ingrained in one's own self worth and esteem.
So the push-back is often caustic.
Fortunately, Seinfeld has the wealth and status not to give a damn.
A few are able to parlay that intellectual fraud into careers principally in government, academia and the media where such ignorance is valued or simply accepted as a cost of doing business.
But live comedy is probably one of the rawest forms of the private sector market in action.
You sell or you fail, and Seinfeld is smart enough to know that, and secure enough to say it.
It's not enough that they devalue human life, capital, and labor, but they have to denigrate individual dignity, too. The party of Asses lives up to its namesake.
Let's stop saying "P.C." this or that.
Let's start being honest. The whole PC stuff was made up by the Left to shut up dissent.
Time to start calling it what it is. "Leftist nonsense" ... which is kind of repetitive, yet descriptive.
I enjoy reruns of both Seinfeld and Cheers. I notice that Cheers, just as entertaining and funny as Seinfeld, is full of the Milk of Human Kindness, which often brings me to tears in its treatment of the characters from Norm and Cliff to Carla and Coach.
There is no kindness in Seinfeld. It is a pure battle of wits, which does have its place--probably NYC.
Ironic. I have always found Seinfeld profoundly unfunny and uninteresting. I might have watched 3 episodes of his show lifetime and that was 90 minutes I'm never getting back.
But I do respect intensity. As Warren Buffett says "intensity is the price of excellence"
I watched several episodes of his web series "Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee" and they're pretty good. I noticed how conservative they can be when it comes to raising their children. Chris Rock talks about his older daughter playing basketball and not being very good, so she didn't get to play much. His wife was upset. He said "well, you know how to play more... get better."
You know, I think, that's like... to me, it's anti-comedy. It's more about P.C. nonsense than 'Are you making us laugh or not?'"
And anyone who disagrees is an antisemite.
You have to have lived, not just visited, NY to appreciate the humor and characters in Seinfeld. It's spot on.
Mickey Mouse is dead
Got kicked in the head
Cos people got too serious
They planned out what they said
They couldn't take the fantasy
Tried to accept reality
Analyzed the laughs
Cos pleasure comes in halves
The purity of comedy
They had to take it seriously
Changed the words around
Tried to make it look profound
The comedian is onstage
Pisstaking for a wage
The critics think he's great
But the laughter turns to hate
--Sub Hum Ans "Mickey Mouse is Dead"
There have been a lot of funny women on television: Lucile Ball, Audrey Meadows, Gracie Allen, Barbara Eden, Elizabeth Montgomery, Agnes Moorehead, Lily Tomlin, Jean Stapleton, Carol Burnett, Vicki Lawrence, Betty White, Mary Tyler Moore, Penny Marshall, Cindy Williams, Gilda Radner, Jane Curtin, Loni Anderson, Joyce DeWit, Suzanne Somers, Katey Sagal, Christina Applegate, Roseanne Barr, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Alyson Hannigan, Tea Leoni, Lisa Kudrow, Laura Prepon, Mila Kunis, Holland Taylor, Megan Mullally, Ellen Degeneres, Kaley Cuoco, Tina Fey, Amy Poehler, Aubrey Plaza, Jane Lynch, Kristen Wiig, Zooey Deschanel, Melissa McCarthy, Kat Dennings, Anna Farris, Taylor Schilling.
Oops, all white women. Isabel Sanford, Whoopi Goldberg, Mindy Kaling, Wanda Sykes, Maya Rudolph, Rashida Jones.
Jerry Seinfeld doesn't care about racial and gender diversity.
But racial and gender diversity cares about him.
And in the PC religion, merit is original sin.
Being offended by Jerry Seinfeld does not compute.
He is an emotionally stable clever man that seeks to offend no one. He schtick is as funny as Jack Benny,s was in his prime.
Seinfeld's response is intriguing because a safer answer would have been so easy--"well, that's just who I've had on so far, it's been a random walk, there are plenty of funny women/minorities in the industry, I'm sure I'll have more of them on in the future, yadda yadda yadda". Say that, and no critical pieces get written about him.
But he didn't. This sentiment must have been festering inside him. He must have wanted to get this out there. I wonder why that is. Fascinating really.
HE's totally right. It would be like expecting diversity to match the population makeup in basketball. So, because blacks only make up 10% of the population they should only be 10% of the players?
Utter rubbish. And this is similarly true for arguments that women aren't adequately represented in various industries because they aren't 50% of the workforce.
The only problem for Seinfeld is that the first 10 guests were all white males. So is he saying that only white males are funny? I don't think so. I think he just happened to pick ten guys he found funny and as the show went on other comedians would be represented. But because the first 10 guests were white you could potentially make the argument that there was some bias.
m stone said: "You have to have lived, not just visited, NY to appreciate the humor and characters in Seinfeld. It's spot on."
Which is why I'll just stay out here in the country with my string of cow heads.
"Take a look over here (points) and here (points) whattya see? WHITTTTEY" -J.S.
Like MSNBC.
The Times (have you read that piece about the infighting yet? Delicious.).
Obamas campaign team.
On and on.
In this type of encounter Jerry did the immediate defense move of refusing any such authority to judge him exists.
The interviewer was unable to think any other thoughts.
So Jerry had "talked over their heads." But I applaud him for it. He lacks fear of the PC mob. I love him for that. It is a sign of a man of faith in who he is because he has read about men in God's book.
We watched the episode (season 2) that dealt with the "immigrant with a pony" topic last night. Hard to believe anybody would not fine that funny. As for Jerry, he has the well deserved right not to play the game.
then he had to walk this comment back on twitter because it offended his audience. caused a bit of a twitter firestorm from the tolerant left as a matter of fact.
then he had to walk this comment back on twitter because it offended his audience. caused a bit of a twitter firestorm from the tolerant left as a matter of fact.
Love that Seinfeld can say whatever he wants.
Love that he's authentic.
$$$$$$$$$
Why is what he said a big deal?
tits.
Patrice O'Neal dealing with some of the same moralism and nonsense:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjIuPSuYSOY
Of course, it's not just comedy that suffers when the focus is on demographic representation. You also get worse accounting, actuarial work, barbering, bar tending, and even President-ing when you focus on things other than ability.
I see a rift coming in the Seinfeld/Chris Rock friendship,...
Clearly Mr. Seinfeld is not up on the latest theories from the Ministry of Diversity. That is double unplus good. I believe he should receive some special high intensity training.
The real question to ask is why is comedy different? When I hire an engineer, I shouldn't care what color he is or what body parts are included. I need the most creative and intelligent hardworking designer that I can pay for. Why would designing a factory or building a rocket ship not be as immune as comedy?
If I need someone to mow my lawn, should I yet have diversity? I don't care what the person mowing my lawn looks like. I need the best lawn cutter I can afford.
I hate racism and how the courts and community organizers have made it a requirement in our culture.
@Skyler
Exactly.
I would love to hear Seinfeld answer your questions, explain to you why you have to follow different rules than he does.
@Skyler, get real. Seinfeld is talking about something IMPORTANT, comedy. Good comedy has to take priority over everything, including race, gender, orientation, etc.
You're just talking about engineering. Not the same thing at all.
@Skyler - in correct Newspeak that would be "double plus ungood."
Before residual money, hot shot comedians like Jack Benny and Red Skelton couldn't retire and live in splendor after ten seasons. Seinfeld is an example of how wealth is unequally distributed in America. Jack Benny never made more than ten times the salary of his top writer. What makes Seinfeld so special? DeBlasio should start a program where all these NYC based comedies like Friend and Seinfeld distribute the wealth equally among the production staff. Go after the bankers but start with the comedians. They're the worst offenders.
Seinfeld is no genius. Everyone knows comedy is just tragedy + time.
Duh.
I happened to be watching the View this morning and then thought about jErry Seinfeld and had to wonder about how lefty shows like the view or any interview show line up on the diversity scale.
It might be worth looking into before judging someone like Seinfeld.
We should count the number of guests and then count the number of blacks versus whites. And it better line up with population statistics or there is obviously a problem with diversity on all these shows.
I'd always thought the original Seinfeld needed a cool black guy that was totally together and always rolled his eyes at his foolish and hapless white friends. That would've been so funny.
Well, if Jerry decides to have a late night talk show, he should have a black band like all the other late night shows.
jr565,
"I happened to be watching the View this morning "
You might want to know that some scumbag has hacked your blogger account.
not that it matters a ton, but this sounds so absurd while he's on tour being opened for by longtime friend and coworker (black) mario joyner. he opened for jerry in portland and we the racist white audience ate it up
What did Kramer have to say about this?
For a great, in-depth look at how Seinfeld does what he does, check out Howard Stern interview from last year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXbDJ3uBl9M
When did Jerry Seinfeld morph into Matt Lauer?
I love your descriptive lines , "... opened a portal to an angry place inside him" and "...his very first outburst is hostile."
Jerry is just not that into Communist Party Self-Criticism sessions. He is not in North Korea where the Digital PC Mob lobs a mortar shell on your head if you don't bow to them.
So the mild mannered Seinfeld just stormed at the pretense such authority exists. That makes him today's Richard Sherman caught in an outburst.
Watch his interview with Michael Richards (Kramer). Kramer was heckled and made some racially insensitive remarks which were taped and went viral. It is interesting to hear them talk about how it impacted Richards and how sorry he was for what he said. My point is that they discussed race/racial insensitivity/racist comments like adults...and I thought it was sincere. I have a lot of respect for both of them after listening to it.
I love the comment above about separating the smart from the educated. So many who are educated (like our president) think they can prescribe a formulaic solution...and it will work in the real world. Those of us that live and succeed in the real world know that their are no simple answers, and often, when people like Mr. Seinfeld try to address those eggheads, their words are used our of context and against them. Anyone who watches this clip and has any sense for comedy knows he was being sarcastic, and anyone who watches Seinfeld knows that sarcasm is one of the things that make the show and the comedian funny.
"Diversity" is a much nicer word than "Shakedown."
On the one hand, I wish entertainment could just be entertainment and comedy could just be comedy. On the other hand, it is a lot to ask a group of people born here, whose ancestors were brought here enslaved, to just "get over it" without a little help from the rest of us, whether we are guilty or not. Black people often simply do no feel included. Maybe the needs of our economy have changed. Certainly the job market has changed to reward "white" ways of thinking in outsized ways. One step we could take, that is considered racist to mention, is to limit Mexican immigration until unemployment in the Black community reaches conscionable levels.
This is not an easy problem, and it is not just the race industry keeping the problem alive, though stirring resentments certainly doesn't help.
When did he become such a scold! Damn Jerry, lighten-up already!
When did he become such a scold! Damn Jerry, lighten-up already!
Seems a huge stretch to me to imagine it's a smokescreen for Jewish preference. I've only watched one of the shows, with Ricky Gervais, and I have no idea whether or not Gervais is Jewish. I wasn't watching much TV in the days Seinfeld was hot and never got into it, but think Gervais is hilarious. The episode was decent but it takes more than that for me to watch anything with commercials. Other than Gervais I've seen mentioned here Tina Fey and Chris Rock, about whose religious commitments I also have total ignorance. I'll definitely pull up the Rock episode, though, so thanks for that tip.
Anyway, race, sex, and religion never crossed my mind, and I'm perfectly willing to accept at face value Seinfeld's assertion that it's not a factor for him.
To assert otherwise on literally no evidence is to become the kind of authoritarian/totalitarian thought police that have so destroyed civil discourse in the US. "I know better than you what you think and meant!" No; no, we don't.
Ricky Gervais is hilarious, when I understand what he says!
Ann, this actually came up on a documentary special one time about "Seinfeld", where a couple African-Americans complained that the show lacked racial diversity. It seemed to me that it was just somebody looking for an issue to somehow "balance out" a documentary about an incredibly popular and funny show. A waste of time in the documentary, in other words.
I wouldn't at all be surprised if that hit a nerve with Jerry Seinfeld, and to have someone bring up this relatively dumb issue again probably did hit a nerve.
What's interesting is that it's essentially the same comment Bill Cosby made in response to a similar question years ago about his show. Going from memory here, but he was asked why he didn't more forcefully tackle racism in his hugely popular show in the 80's. His response was simple, "Racism is not funny. Why would I do that?"
I think the topic was brought up because it had been talked about on various websites and such. The interviewer and Jerry were both aware of the "chatter" and the interviewer wanted to address it and apparently Jerry didn't.
"... opened a portal to an angry place inside him...his very first outburst is hostile."
His response was restrained and civil. As a matter of fact, "FOAD Painfully" is an appropriate level of civility toward any diversity commissar interrogating one's speech and thoughts or making demands upon one.
Comedy depends on audience. Maybe the audience for his show is white? That's exactly what Seinfeld said right at the beginning of the clip.
Entertainment is segregated. Link NSFW.
"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
--Thomas Jefferson
The United States postage stamp bearing this quote features a flaming sword.
Aw, what's the fuss? George Costanza and Cosmo Kramer never actually counted as white men.
Keep in mind that there are certain fields where talent is everything. Comedy and sports are good examples. If you're not funny, people don't laugh. If you can run with the football, the other team isn't going to stand aside and let you score that touchdown in the name of affirmative action.
That's why, before there were federal affirmative action programs, put-upon groups, including Jews and blacks made their first inroads in comedy and sports. Talent trumped prejudice.
That's the world Seinfeld is coming from, one where funny is funny irrespective of race or sex.
I have a dream, that comedians will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their humor.
Crack Emcee - Actually, I think Chris Rock would agree with him. Comedians are a particular fraternity. All that matters is if you are funny.
So far in what is it, 15 episodes, he has had 2 black comics - Mario Joyner and Chris Rock and two women - Sarah Silverman and Tina Fey. He also says on the show, the Mount Rushmore of Comedy is Bill Cosby, Richard Pryor, Mel Brooks and Carlin. Pryor is dead, Cosby may not want to do the show or hasn't had the time yet.
What also doesn't gel in peoples minds is perhaps one of Seinfeld's closest friends, George Wallace is not available and Dave Chappelle said no.
You know what I like, he didn't QUALIFY with excuses.
GO SEINFELD.
CatherineM,
Crack Emcee - Actually, I think Chris Rock would agree with him. Comedians are a particular fraternity. All that matters is if you are funny.
If it makes you happy to think that way, great, but I've spent a lot of personal time with comedians, but what Jerry said is bullshit - he expressed it wrong. Almost all the top grossing stand-ups are black, so if it's just about funny, Jerry's show should be darker than death itself.
You know what I like, he didn't QUALIFY with excuses.
Well, a certain inhumanity to blacks and our concerns is known to be popular on these shores,….
Drago,
A very wise old man once said, "Tragedy is when I stub my toe. Comedy is when you fall through a manhole and die."
Oh, OK Crack, you win. You know it all.
Crack, what makes you think he didn't ask the "top grossing" comedians to join him? They have schedules too you know.
I don't blame Seinfeld for reacting that way. It's all "Gotcha!" racism all the time. To accuse him of racism was just wrong.
Hey Crack- Blacks have a particularly strong record of liking Jews too, right?
Right?
...
"Well, a certain inhumanity to blacks and our concerns is known to be popular on these shores"
Was Seinfeld displaying inhumanity?
"He is favoring his own kind — and his own kind is a minority group that has done especially well in comedy."
His "own kind" has done especially well in comedy, in musical, in science, in whatnots. Jonas Salk has discovered polio vaccines, his kind can't hoard the spot light, let some other groups discover other lives saving whatnots. The Gershwin brothers have written too many memorable music, it is some other minority group's turn to make popular music...
To make Seinfeld pc is to make him give up success for something inferior. Yes, inferior. Inferiors don't make money. How we hate to hear laugh tracks on stupid unfunny jokes!
Talent is very un-pc. No laws can change that.
CatherineM said...
Oh, OK Crack, you win. You know it all.
Crack, what makes you think he didn't ask the "top grossing" comedians to join him? They have schedules too you know.
And all of them couldn't make it? Most of them couldn't make it? To work with Jerry Seinfeld? Even you don't believe that.
I don't blame Seinfeld for reacting that way. It's all "Gotcha!" racism all the time. To accuse him of racism was just wrong.
If you're on the wrong side of the issue, it's always looked that way, which is why there's conflict.
You have to remember that, for most of this country's history, nobody's ever said anything was wrong with what was very, very wrong. Wrong is pretty normal here. People here have to be warned not to do wrong - "Don't Discriminate" - who else thinks like that?
So wrong begins to look like right. And when Jerry Seinfeld does wrong, some applaud him for doing right, which is wrong.
Being proud of being wrong is weird, too.
Hey Crack- Blacks have a particularly strong record of liking Jews too, right?
Right?
That's a dull knife to try to cut with. Almost all the clothes I wore to elementary school were provided by Jews. I'm a Shabbos, so your lack of nuance to a complicated, but truly loving, relationship is deeply disturbing. My last roommate is a Jew. Christmas at the Chinese restaurant, all that. There really is evil amongst you guys.
pst314,
Was Seinfeld displaying inhumanity?
No, he was reacting perfectly normal:
"What about blacks?" "I'M GETTING REALLY ANGRY!"
I'm thinking Chris Rock and other's success is getting under his skin. I mean, nobody's asking why they don't have Seinfeld on their program. He's not that funny, which is why his com,menus are wrong and delusion ally so. He goes with what's funny?
Not according to the evidence,...
Jerry heard the dog whistle of anti semitism. It's clear that the actual question was not about black, but rather about Jews, "why are there so many Jews in Hollywood?" As a Jew, I heard that dog whistle....
Wow you are totally inside his head Crack. You know he's a racist and all of his motivations even if he doesn't know it. Amazing!
CatherineM said...
Wow you are totally inside his head Crack. You know he's a racist and all of his motivations even if he doesn't know it. Amazing!
Um, unless you're a full-on Nazi, or KKK type, that's usually how it is. Repression. Like you - you should have no vested interest in protecting Jerry Seinfeld. But here you are, trying to gin up a black dude on Jerry's behalf, like there's anything new in that. You know what's new? Me being able to talk.
Where's your effort in protecting that without all of Jerry's questions and outbursts?
You must be white because they don't teach this stuff to white kids because it makes their heads hurt.
You know, thinking about other people for a change,...
Crack, let's be honest, the question to jerry was not really about black people, they were used as mascots. Jerry correctly understood that this whole political correctness and proportional representation is about anti semitism. Stop denying the obvious. It's not "politically correct" to say that too many Jews are in Hollywood, so instead antisemites and their stupid allies talk about "white people". No one with iq above room temperature is blind to this.
C.S. Lewis said it best 70 years ago:
"The demand for equality has two sources; one of them is among the noblest, the other is the basest of human emotions. The noble source is the desire for fair play. But the other source is the hatred of superiority. At the present moment it would be very unrealistic to overlook the importance of the latter.
There is in all men a tendency (only corrigible by good training from without and persistent moral effort from within) to resist the existence of what is stronger, subtler or better than themselves. In uncorrected and brutal small men this hardens into an implacable and disinterested hatred for every kind of excellence. . . .
Equality (outside mathematics) is a purely social conception. It applies to man as a political and economic animal. It has no place in the world of the mind. Beauty is not democratic; she reveals herself more to the few than to the many, more to the persistent and disciplined seekers than to the careless. Virtue is not democratic; she is achieved by those who pursue her more hotly than most men. Truth is not democratic; she demands special talents and special industry in those to whom she gives her favours.
Political democracy is doomed if it tries to extend its demand for equality into these higher spheres. Ethical, intellectual, or aesthetic democracy is death. A truly democratic education—one which will preserve democracy—must be, in its own field, ruthlessly aristocratic, shamelessly "high-brow." C. S. Lewis “Democratic Education” (1944)
Hyphenated American,
I'm not sure if I understand this, so I'm taking it line-by-line:
Crack, let's be honest, the question to jerry was not really about black people, they were used as mascots. Jerry correctly understood that this whole political correctness and proportional representation is about anti semitism.
Still lost me.
Stop denying the obvious.
O.K., but I'm lost.
It's not "politically correct" to say that too many Jews are in Hollywood, so instead antisemites and their stupid allies talk about "white people".
But I don't say there's too many Jews in Hollywood and they can be kinda white, too. Like Jerry now.
No one with iq above room temperature is blind to this.
Oooooh-kay. Let's step away from the punch bowl, whattayasay?
Crack, seriously, you think that all this ruckus about the lack of non-white comedians is not another racist attempt to punish successful people, mostly Jews? Come on, you can't be that naive, right?
Hyphenated American said...
Crack, seriously, you think that all this ruckus about the lack of non-white comedians is not another racist attempt to punish successful people, mostly Jews? Come on, you can't be that naive, right?
I have no idea what you're talking about.
How does a "racist attempt to punish successful people" work when "success" isn't a race?
you seem confused
If success isn't a race, then why do you waste everyone's time counting the number of blacks that jerry Seinfeld works with?
একটি মন্তব্য পোস্ট করুন