Althouse: "When people say to me, 'It's not a big deal' ... I say to them, 'Have you ever killed anyone?'"

April 7, 2013

"When people say to me, 'It's not a big deal' ... I say to them, 'Have you ever killed anyone?'"

"You can’t underestimate the cultural change that comes with gaining lethal authority.... It is a big deal. You start thinking about things differently."

33 comments:

cubanbob said...: It's a new idea that warfare means killing the enemy?; 4/7/13, 11:12 AM
Anonymous said...: Dangerous...NY Times questioning Obama's drones? They know that April Fools was a week ago, right?

Enjoy the decline, sheeple!; 4/7/13, 11:16 AM
edutcher said...: It's the Company that's bad, not our Little Zero.; 4/7/13, 11:22 AM
Joe said...: What is the difference between this and the notorious "death squads" of various third world governments?; 4/7/13, 11:56 AM
Anonymous said...: @Joe:

Duh. Easy Annie A.'s super-negro is in charge of it. Since everything thing he does is perfect, this is ok.

And if you don't agree, you're racist.; 4/7/13, 12:27 PM
Synova said...: "It's a new idea that warfare means killing the enemy?"

It's a new idea that the CIA is openly an assassination agency instead of an intelligence agency.

And if the Bush administration worked closely (and secretly) to have an agreement with Pakistan to use drones in their territory for a particular target... I doubt that Obama bothers.; 4/7/13, 1:01 PM
Aridog said...: From the article ...

Mr. Brennan, who began his career at the C.I.A. and over the past four years oversaw an escalation of drone strikes from his office at the White House ...

Surprise, surprise! Fascinating how all this ramped up concern about drones was subdued a bit during Brennan's confirmation hearings. Now he can do it directly from the DCIA's office, and he's promised to dissociate CIA from drones, and to ask "Mother May I" for any such actions as necessary.

The ghost of Robert Komer and CORDS has returned, death lists and all.

Amazing.; 4/7/13, 1:07 PM
Aridog said...: Synova said ...

It's a new idea that the CIA is openly an assassination agency instead of an intelligence agency.

No, its not really new...it has been in that business, with Special Operations forces, ever since the mid 1960's. See my comment at 1:07 PM

What may be "new" is the general public openness of it all...that I'll grant you. However, Phoenix was hardly a total secret in its day either, but it did retain a modicum of clandestine cover.; 4/7/13, 1:20 PM
Cody Jarrett said...: Duh. Easy Annie A.'s super-negro is in charge of it. Since everything thing he does is perfect, this is ok.

I believe you meant to say "magic negro".; 4/7/13, 3:08 PM
cubanbob said...: It's a new idea that the CIA is openly an assassination agency instead of an intelligence agency.

A distinction without much of a difference. Would it be more pleasing if the military did it like the Navy did in WW2 when it assassinated Admiral Yamamoto? Perhaps I am wrong but it appears to me our enemies really don't make such a fine distinction between being killed by one branch of our government versus another branch. I suspect they just don't care for being killed by the US government.; 4/7/13, 3:20 PM
poppa india said...: To second Aridog, the purpose of the Phoenix program in Viet-Nam was pretty well known in the
Army then. Also there were other efforts to remove VC and NVA leadership by special units like the Rangers and by members of the regular Army military intell detachments. At the same time, the VC and NVA had their own programs, often targeting the families of South Viet-Namese government officials. None of this should be a surprise to anyone knowledgeable about guerrilla warfare. The drones are just another way of doing it.; 4/7/13, 3:26 PM
poppa india said...: To second Aridog, the purpose of the Phoenix program in Viet-Nam was pretty well known in the
Army then. Also there were other efforts to remove VC and NVA leadership by special units like the Rangers and by members of the regular Army military intell detachments. At the same time, the VC and NVA had their own programs, often targeting the families of South Viet-Namese government officials. None of this should be a surprise to anyone knowledgeable about guerrilla warfare. The drones are just another way of doing it.; 4/7/13, 3:27 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: Except that Yamamoto was a serving enemy officer flying in an enemy bomber with an escort of enemy fighters in a combat zone when he was "assassinated". Yeah, that's exactly like killing random bystanders with drone strikes.; 4/7/13, 3:40 PM
Unknown said...: I don't have objections to our armed forces using weapons of war to fight wars. I do have objections to leaders decrying the use of some weapons just because their political opponents are doing it. When the United States gets involved in a war and sends people out to fight and die we owe our troops a complete dedication to the object of winning the war no matter which party is in power.

If we could be sure every administration is dedicated to winning foreign wars then we could have some assurance that wars aren't begun or fought half-heartedly because of some jerk's political aspirations.; 4/7/13, 3:44 PM
Larry J said...: cubanbob said...
It's a new idea that the CIA is openly an assassination agency instead of an intelligence agency.

A distinction without much of a difference.

There is a substantial difference. An intelligence agency tends to want to interrogate people to learn things. It's hard to do that when you blow them to pieces.

Not that I mind blowing Al Qaeda members to pieces just like they blew thousands of people to pieces on 9/11. The Hellfire missiles launched on the UAVs is primarily an antitank weapon. To increase its effectiveness as an antipersonnel weapon, they fit the missiles with fragmentation sleeves. My company makes those sleeves and sends them to Al Qaeda with love.; 4/7/13, 4:14 PM
Aridog said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/7/13, 4:57 PM
Aridog said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/7/13, 5:01 PM
Aridog said...: Referring back to the thread title line; if you have never killed anyone you really can't speak about the sensation. There's nothing wrong with that. Nothing. Is isn't what many imagine...walk around with the power of life and death in your hands in lawless places and find out just how vulnerable you feel. I did not misspeak.; 4/7/13, 5:04 PM
Anonymous said...: I'm sorry, when you wage war, I want the US to wage war to win and to minimize US losses while attempting generally to comply with the laws of war...

Is it always neat. Only sometimes in air and naval war, never on the ground. Borderline things need to be done to achieve the mission and save our troops. If the impact on the local people has a lower impact than the benefit to our side, do it.

I'd rather be answering IG questions than writing letters to families...

Phoenix made sense. It was imperfectly implemented, but it worked as designed.; 4/7/13, 5:29 PM
Bob said...: Well we should all be happy that we're not filling up GITMO. I mean being held in a cell while your legal proceddings grind along (and with a probability of being released back to your country after several years) must be a worse fate than dying in a drone strike. Right? I remember all the manufactured angst among the left back in the Bush years.

I do think the angst on both the left and right for domestic drone usage is called for. Intel gathering is one thing but you can't get a missile back once it leaves the rail.; 4/7/13, 5:31 PM
Anonymous said...: The Obama decision to "take no prisoners" is evidence of a failure of intelligence operations and a lack of moral fortitude on the part of Obama...; 4/7/13, 5:37 PM
Aridog said...: The Drill SGT said...

I'm sorry, when you wage war, I want the US to wage war to win and to minimize US losses while attempting generally to comply with the laws of war...

And so do I...emphatically.

Phoenix made sense. It was imperfectly implemented, but it worked as designed.

I presume you noticed I did not condemn Phoenix, only mentioned it. Actually a tease I suppose, but that want' my original intention. I firmly believe it worked as designed and was feared by the enemy.

I cite it now only to bring attention to the fact that what we do now isn't so new as many would seem to think it is. Quasi- paramilitary operations go back to Jedburgh Teams in Europe, and before, in the Pacific Theater especially.; 4/7/13, 5:39 PM
Anonymous said...: Ari,

My comment was not pointed at yours. I know both of us fully sign up for the Mantra:

Mission,
Men,
Self; 4/7/13, 5:42 PM
Aridog said...: The Drill SGT said...

The Obama decision to "take no prisoners" is evidence of a failure of intelligence operations and a lack of moral fortitude on the part of Obama...

Given the logic of this administration, it is the perfect tactic. You only need to report successes, if you choose, embellish it as you wish, and can bury failures...how good is that, eh?; 4/7/13, 5:43 PM
Anonymous said...: Before Rioger J corrects me, I should have given the Cavalry Mantra:

Mission,
Horse,
Men,
Self; 4/7/13, 5:51 PM
madAsHell said...: First, they came for the goat fuckers,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a goat fucker.

all kidding aside....this could spiral out-of-control.; 4/7/13, 7:27 PM
Synova said...: It does make one wonder how we're doing on the "hearts and minds" front.; 4/7/13, 7:46 PM
Anonymous said...: Syn,

An infantry saying, likely did not make it to USAFA.

If you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds naturally follow :); 4/7/13, 7:50 PM
Synova said...: Drill SGT, no doubt. ;-); 4/7/13, 9:14 PM
1775OGG said...: The Soviet Bloc used a poison pill soaked with Ricin to kill a member of the disloyal opposition on the streets of London. The CIA uses drones to kill various personages, including some Yanks that had avoided arrest while inflicting great harm on the USA. The Islamists use suicide bombers to wreck widespread killings among a civilian population.

Yet, to the NYT and its fellows, the USA and its agencies and forces are the bad guys.

Of course, the NYT doesn't believe in striking back, so it blames the Israelis of the USA, because both will strike back, US less than I'd like but still sometimes the US does do it well.

So, now, there's no way that the US could send a drone over Jong Un's palace without really causing the NYT to get its panties in a bunch.

Pity!; 4/7/13, 10:05 PM
1775OGG said...: Wow, this is getting to be an awesome article.; 4/7/13, 10:07 PM
J said...: Got no problem with the purpose of drone strikes-just with the idea that they are not war.They damn sure are.And just as indiscriminate as other bombing methods as times.You know the high collateral damage thing.
What I do have a problem with is the "let's pretend"game that we are not at war with the Radical Islamists.Shot sidedly dangerous IMO.; 4/7/13, 10:36 PM
Roger J. said...: Drill--no need to correct our mantra--I might also add another of standing orders: ride to the sounds of the guns; 4/8/13, 7:09 AM