UPDATE: The first American Pope. The South American Bergoglio.
AND: Pope Francis... Wikipedia page established.
He consistently preaches a message of compassion towards the poor, but somewho? observers would like him to place a greater emphasis on issues of social justice. Rather than articulating positions on matters of political economy, Bergoglio prefers to emphasize spirituality and holiness, believing that this will naturally lead to greater concern for the suffering of the poor. He has, however, voiced support for social programs, and publicly challenged free-market policies.
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283 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 283 of 283I did see that Obama has spoken and commends the new Pope for his compassion for the poor.
No commendation for his description of abortion as a death sentence for the targeted unborn who don't even get a chance to come into the world naked and poor.
Hay Papa!
Where did you hear that Pogo?
These are what are known as cafeteria Catholics. The only kind people like Oaf like.
Considering that the birthrate among Catholics in this country is about the same as the rest of the country, most Catholics are "cafeteria Catholics". Also, if you support the death penalty, you are also a cafeteria Catholic.
Now families have 2 maybe 3 kids and no way do they want to "lose" one to a life as a celibate priest.
Non-Catholic families are poor recruiting grounds for priests whether or not you let priests get married.
(If you're going to claim the families are Catholic, you're going to have to explain how they're keeping the family down to two or three kids.)
you're going to have to explain how they're keeping the family down to two or three kids
No sex after the last kid?
Freder Frederson said...
These are what are known as cafeteria Catholics. The only kind people like Oaf like.
Considering that the birthrate among Catholics in this country is about the same as the rest of the country, most Catholics are "cafeteria Catholics".
They are?
That must explain how the american Church is one of the leading opponents of abortion.
Also, if you support the death penalty, you are also a cafeteria Catholic.
Really?
The Church allows the death penalty in extreme cases.
No cafeteria, sit down restaurant only.
(get the feeling Hatman is working the sockpuppet machine this afternoon?)
I wasn't around at the time that the huge revision to the missal occurred
The changes to liturgical music were not as huge as *some* American bishops made them out to be. Basically they were given a little leeway and the gay mafia went crazy with it.
@Lem:
No me acuerdo!
Married priest with families would be the end of every Catholic Parish I ever was part of.
You are being hit up for increased donations practically on a weekly basis. You are making do--putting off buying/doing all the things you've been imagining. You are making your car last. Father Tom announces his youngest needs a new car--he wrecked his last--and the Parish is having a hard time keeping up with the college tuitions for his four oldest. And graduate school is hust around the corner--you know. You start your car and the muffler blows out and you limp home---not looking to annoy anyone with the racket. You are thinking about flooring it.
My father used to say that while watching the news... some big event like an earthquake.
Hay Papa!
Its sort of like OMG.
ST--
Play the one about the dancing Lord. Please.
It's important to the leftist supremacists that the Pops be one of them.. not a holy man, but you know, an Obama.
An Occupier.
An anti-capitalist...
He has, however, ... publicly challenged free-market policies.
This must be this pope's version of "he turned a blind eye to sexual abuse allegations". He's been pope for a couple of hours and wiki's already trying to discredit him.
Obama has already advised him to blame Benedict for the mess he's been handed.
Joe Biden is leading the American delegation for Francis' installation.
I think the rest of the delegation should be made up from the 'Nuns on the Bus'.
Considering that the birthrate among Catholics in this country is about the same as the rest of the country, most Catholics are "cafeteria Catholics". Also, if you support the death penalty, you are also a cafeteria Catholic.
The Church exists to serve sinners. I've said this about a million times. The doors of the Church are not closed to sinners.
All Catholics are sinners to one degree or another.
Try to get your mind around this. People try their best, but they do not always live up to doctrine. I don't. Nobody does.
That isn't a call to toss out the doctrine.
you're going to have to explain how they're keeping the family down to two or three kids
Catholics have calendars, can do math and are able to exercise some self restraint for a few days out of the month.
Ann says "the first American Pope".
Do South Americans of any kind refer to themselves as "American"?
I am curious.
Not sure, but the differentiate between themselves and the Norteamericanos (us and the Canucks).
The Catholic church must allow priests to marry or the church will die faater and faster.
Ahem. How does this sound to you.
Father Jim Bakker and his wife Tammy Faye
His Eminence Edward Cardinal Kennedy and his rabbit faced sons and nephews,the bishops of Providence,Portland,New York, Washington DC, Chicago,Palm Beach, etc.,etc.,etc.
Pope Cesare Borgia I
Do South Americans of any kind refer to themselves as "American"?
Yes, Latin Americans. In s Spanish and Portuguese, of course. That doesn't stop them from ragging on people from the US calling themselves Americans. though. People are funny.
Peter is just happy they didn't go Brazilian.
I, for one, WELCOME our new Jesuit overlords!
" Freder Frederson said...
I mean they even have a hymn in the missal to the tune of "Moon Shadow" by that dirty Cat Stevens for crying out loud.
You are thinking of "Morning has Broken", which while a hit for Cat Stevens, was written as a hymn (albeit an Anglican one).
3/13/13, 4:35 PM"
Morning has Broken, was my Dad's favorite hymn, sung at his funeral even. I believe it is an Irish tune originally, and really not especially religious in theme.
Just so you know. ;)
I'm already working on the first draft of my expose:
'The Bergoglio Imbroglio'
I've already started to see the Facebook reactions that are Shocked, Shocked that the Pope turns out to be a Catholic, and not a gay rights activist.
Shocking.
I just don't think we should be singing Prod songs in a mackerel snappers joint.
I mean are we gonna have to listen to "The Sash" or "Derry's Walls" or
"Billy's Boys" while we are kneeling and waiting to go for Communion.
I didn't donate all that money to Noraid in the 1980's for that to happen!
And it being almost Paddy's day!
Mexicans are descended from Aztecs. Peruvians are descended from Incas. Argentinians are descended from ships. Most people there have German or Italian heritage. Mario Bergoglio sounds pretty Italian to me. Normal for a Pope.
The sin and the shame of it to be sure.
Baron, I used to go to Catholic Mass with a friend from high school in the 60s. They did not sing any songs. They just stood up, sat down, and kneeled when a bell rang. They had a laminated card that explained what the priest was saying. 'My papa can beat your papa at dominoes' and all that.
Well we had to learn to sing when they put in those "guitar" masses in the 1960's when they gayed it up.
So if we have to sing and it is required in Church it should be good Catholic songs not this Prod drivel.
Next thing you know they want us to handle snakes and shit.
Does Billy's Boys have something to do with William of Orange? That's where the term Hillbillies comes from.
Old times don't die easy, do they?
Maybe they can incorporate some samba into the Mass since El Papa is an Argie.
They never die Ken to those who remember.
Up the Rebels!
Considering that the birthrate among Catholics in this country is about the same as the rest of the country, most Catholics are "cafeteria Catholics".
Catholics who believe the Church's teaching is wrong are called "cafeteria Catholics".
Catholics who believe the church's teaching is right but don't always obey it are called "Catholics".
Catholics who believe the church's teaching is right and are sure to always obey it are called "figments of the imagination". :)
Now if they wanted to handle it right and incorporate "Wild Colonial Boy"into the mix then I could except some of that Prod crap.
I will ask Father when I see him in the Pub.
@Zemo,
What are you bellyaching about with yer "Prod Hymns"?
What the hell do you thing hymns like "O Sacred Head Surrounded", "From All who dwell below the Skies", "Now thank we all our God" are?
Prods, every one. But sung by me & a bazillion other mackerel-snappers so many times, they're now part of the tradition.
You eye-tykes sure are provincial sometimes, unlike us Alabama Catholics!
"Catholics who believe the church's teaching is right but don't always obey it are called "Catholics".
No they are called sinners. Born of original sin and sure to sin again. But not afraid to beg for mercy and forgiveness for their weakness. Just sayn'
You Alabama crackers are infected by those snake handling and moonshine drinking mega-preachers.
I bet you play patty fingers in the Holy Water.
The sin and the shame of it.
Credit should reflect on Pope Benedict for being the 1st to recognize that "Pope for Life" was as bad an idea as "monarchal rulers for life" and the particular American institutions of Senators and Judges for Life.
The French Revolution and WWI and the Bolsheviks did wonders to eradicate rule for life on bloodline...
Benedict was eyewitness to a senile John Paul II apologizing to Muslims right and left and unable to cope with the homosexual pederast priest scandals. After more than 2,000 years time for a charge. Better a tradition of stepping down than forcing the Curia to poison a bad or senile Pope.
Now that monarchs are largely ceremonial where they still exist, Popes and the RCC have recognized the wisdom of a optimal service in office period..
when will America fix their Senators and Judges for Life problem??
"Cafeteria Catholics" are those who show up for Baptisms and Weddings and Funerals but you never see them come around when the collection basket comes by on a Sunday morning in February.
They are the ones who make sure they sit in your seat for the "Midnight Mass" once a year.
ken in sc said...
Mexicans are descended from Aztecs. Peruvians are descended from Incas. Argentinians are descended from ships
=====================
Pithy, but not quite accurate. Most Mexicans are descended not from Aztecs, but the majority being mixed race people from tribes that hated the Aztecs - and generally ruled by Mexicans that are free of any native american blood.
Same deal in Peru...except like in Ecuador, more really are descended from Incas than surrounding tribes. And their 100% white rulers are more "straight Spanish blood" than is the case in Mexico.
Argentina, like Chile, white. Or at least far whiter than the USA demographics are these days.
What does Alabama have to do with it?
Actually C-ford I knew that but I did not think it was important.
Baron Zemo said...
You Alabama crackers are infected by those snake handling and moonshine drinking mega-preachers.
I bet you play patty fingers in the Holy Water.
They better not. Michaeleen is watching.
ken in sc said...
Does Billy's Boys have something to do with William of Orange? That's where the term Hillbillies comes from.
Old times don't die easy, do they?
Old times there are not forgotten.
Of course, he was a Union man.
The Baron is good guy. I respect him as a fellow Christian. I think eventually he will become a Presbyterian or a least a Methodist. This is a joke. I don't really believe that. The Catholics in my family will never change. Neither will he.
A very long drawing was held and a new pope selected to guide mankind so that we may more fully align our own desires and designs with God. And the chosen representative is not just a plain cardinal this time, but rather a very real saint.
@Baron,
You Alabama crackers are infected by those snake handling and moonshine drinking mega-preachers
I'll have you know that in my parish in 'Bammy we always fitted up the snakes in their own right-fine vestments.
And when we spoke in tongues it was Koine Greek!
Chip Ahoy said...
A very long drawing was held and a new pope selected to guide mankind so that we may more fully align our own desires and designs with God. And the chosen representative is not just a plain cardinal this time, but rather a very real saint.
Good one, but a girl named Abby?
O Sacred Head Now Wounded is clearly not a Prod hymn, though beloved. (Errr. "surrounded??")
Usually credited to Bernard of Clairveaux (1091-1153) but now thought to be written by Arnulf of Louvain (d 1215).
Prods sing medieval Catholic stuff.
I had a Roman Catholic niece get a degree from Liberty University, a Baptist School, and she is still a Catholic. I think Liberty is more Catholic than some Catholic Schools.
To all Americans south of the Rio Grande, we are at best "Yankees". "Gringos" isn't so bad I guess. There are worse.
@JAL,
The English text we sung is by an Anglican, from your link:
Another English translation, based on the German, was made in 1861 by Sir Henry Baker. Published in Hymns Ancient and Modern, it begins, "O sacred head surrounded by crown of piercing thorn.
The melody is by Hans Leo Hassler. The harmonization is by J.S. Bach.
Sounds like a bunch of Prods to me.
You error in your questioning about that area that lies between heaven and earth for in the Kingdom there is no rich nor poor, no free nor slave, there is neither Roman or Jew, nor man nor woman, for these are concerns of the physical world.
I sing in my church choir. It is Presbyterian. We sing a lot of Latin hymns because the Roman church abandomed them. If it it was not for Vatican II, we could not do this. Thank You.
Mark said...
To all Americans south of the Rio Grande, we are at best "Yankees". "Gringos" isn't so bad I guess. There are worse.
It depends where you are.
In Mexico, gringo is a remnant of the Mexican War (from the American song, "Green Grow The Lilacs") and can be something of a shot.
In Panama, it's just another word for norteamericanos (during the invasion in '89, you saw banners saying things like, "Thanx gringos").
I had a South American girl friend who said I was eat up with Gringoitus. I think I explained this before.
Why the hell are Protestants and Jews so concerned about the Catholic Church? Mind your own religion.
3/13/13?
Good luck.
It depends on viewpoint.
Particularly The Gospel of Judas.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas
Another thing. Protestants need to remember that almost EVERY Christian in Europe from 325 AD to 1500 was a Catholic. England was a Catholic country until Henry VIII. That's why all this Protestant nonsense about Catholics being so wrong about the Bible and Christianity is so weird.
One particularly delightful aspect of this papal election is hearing Dan Brown explode...and a bevy of rabid anti-Catholic fundamentalist apologists who see Jesuits in the shadows. If the Jews aren't in control of everything, the Jesuits are.
*blam*
I attended the funeral Mass for the wife of a former neighbor. The Church is one of those post war modern barns filled with
awful modern religious art. There's a statue of Jesus that looks like he's emerging from a taco shell. That is no exageration.
There was a sign outside advertising a "Polka Mass" every Sunday. The presiding priest was sporting an earring. At the service, during one of the prayers , the participants lowered their heads and raised their right arms as if in a fascist salute.
The music was played on a piano,unrecognizeable happy clappy stuff.
Wow. It has been a long time since I attended Catholic services and I found this disconcerting ,to say the least.
I imagine all the congregation attending mass regularly over the years never noticed the changes.
Catholics are OK with me. I like the ones I know. I'm Presbyterian. At least a Catholic will speak you if he sees you in a liquer store. Babtists will pretend they don't see you.
I was raised in the Methodist Church, and Baptised in it. I went to many Bapitist services and Catholic Masses. I am now a Presbyterian. This is I feel at home. Go where you feel at home.
Baron my parents are "cafeteria catholics" and go to Mass every Sunday. My mother is actually there every morning at 7:00 and they paid for the pews in my hometown's church.
I have spoken with my mother about this and she believes strongly in the lessons and teachings of the church but not necessarily with how the hierarchy have handled things.
Chip
Great surprise I was wondering why you were drawing the Sphinx and suddenly it turned into cuteness.
Certainly, this be-speckled Italian-cum-South-American looks both grand and convivial in his new white get-up. Like someone who you could really enjoy playing poker with, or revealing your deepest darkest regrets to, in the comfortably sacramental cocoon of confidentiality and absolution.
But Pope Francis is nonetheless a sinner.
As we all are.
Go to church on any given Sunday-- or, if you prefer, for a weekday morning quickie-- and you are surrounded by sinners. Sinners!!! Everywhere! Sinners galore!!! And now we have a new Leader of the Sinners...
And he's Pontifex Maximus. Only informally-- that is to say, he is known as such. It isn't in the official list of titles, probably because the Bishop of Rome would prefer not to claim that inheritance...
What inheritance, you ask? Julius Caesar was Pontifex Maximus. In 13 B.C. Augustus claimed the title too. So with the subsequent emperors, even Constantine and his Christian inheritors...
Did the people of Rome run out of their houses to see Caesar speak, in his own garments of leadership, with the same enthusiasm that the people of Rome exhibited this afternoon?
Mother Angelica founded her monastery and, later, EWTN, in Alabama. It is still headquartered there. : )
...
ken in sc said...
Actually C-ford I knew that but I did not think it was important
I understand. It was intended on being pithy, not factual.
But one sure way to piss most Mexican mestizos off is to tell them that their ancestors were Aztecs.
edutcher, there are things you can say, in Spanish, in one country south of our border that will make people laugh, smile, or wince, and get your throat cut in others.
It's a heterodox world all the world over.
"Catholics who believe the church's teaching is right but don't always obey it are called "Catholics".
No they are called sinners.
I hate having to explain a joke, so I won't bother. Re-read the statements I made and see if you can spot why your response was a banal comment to make.
almost EVERY Christian in Europe from 325 AD to 1500 was a Catholic [...] That's why all this Protestant nonsense about Catholics being so wrong about the Bible and Christianity is so weird.
Two points:
First, the period where "almost every Christian in Europe" was part of the *same* Catholic Church was 325 (Council of Nicea) to 1054 (the great schism). It could be argued that the Roman Catholic Church is, itself, a splinter group that split from the true church a thousand years after Christ. Regardless, it has been nearly a thousand years since the Bishop of Rome could make an undisputed claim to leadership of Christianity.
Secondly, the rejection of Catholicism isn't "weird" if you remember that Christianity was around for three centuries before then. Catholicism is Christianity after the Roman government got done with it; the degree to which Roman politics meddled with the religion is unclear and will probably be unclear forever, since records of the time are spotty.
On a side note, the Church of England isn't necessarily "Protestant". They weren't under Henry VIII or Elizabeth, but have drifted between Catholicism and Protestantism over time.
Oh, this is so excitin'!
Me and my fellow conservatives will take notice... This is how leadership is done!
Good luck to Pope Francis I. May his papacy be long and blessed.
No sex after the last kid?
Minus an illness or injury, it's going to be very unusual for a couple that actually tries to obey the teachings of the Church to wind up in a situation where they have two kids and only two kids.
The cases where both serious Catholics have unusually low sex drives, they both should have followed St. Paul's advice to not get married at all. It's better to marry than burn, but not better to marry than remain chastely celibate. So the odds of two serious, informed Catholics, with low sex drives, misjudging things sufficiently that they not just get married, but manage to marry each other and have two kids, and then figure out they can both go without sex, are pretty low. I'm not saying they're non-existent, but this does not describe even a large minority of Catholic couples.
All the couples where at least one partner has a normal or high sex drive, they should be regularly having sex without contraception (it's an obligation for the partner with the lower sex drive to keep the one with the higher from "burning"), and natural family planning just isn't reliable enough. If they're having sex but there's a fertility issue, they are pretty unlikely to wind up with two kids.
All-in-all, if (say) 80% of Catholic couples in a country only have two children, then very close to 80% of Catholic couples are either ignorant of or deliberately defying Church doctrine. And since they're supposed to all have gone through "pre-Cana" counseling to address the ignorance issue . . . well.
Of course, obstinate, persistent rejection seems to be the position of most American "Catholics" to a wide swathe of Church teachings — but it is also, by definition, heresy. It's as silly to count them as "Catholics" as it would be to count all Baptists as Catholics merely because their baptisms were valid.
Minus an illness or injury, it's going to be very unusual for a couple that actually tries to obey the teachings of the Church to wind up in a situation where they have two kids and only two kids.
Not as unusual as you think.
“Let’s not be naïve, we’re not talking about a simple political battle; it is a destructive pretension against the plan of God. We are not talking about a mere bill, but rather a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God.”
The new pope understands the promotion of sodomite marriage.
Catholics have calendars, can do math and are able to exercise some self restraint for a few days out of the month.
Actually, what I should have said is that American Catholics use artificial birth control at the same rate as the rest of the population.
I believe it is an Irish tune originally, and really not especially religious in theme.
Yeah, "God's recreation of the new day" is not religious in theme at all. The whole hymn is a metaphor of each morning being God creating the world anew.
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