And here's that post of mine from last month, before the first debate, about the verb "to like":
It occurred to me that that liberals have quite effectively insinuated the message into our brains that they are likeable, and, in particular, Barack Obama is likeable. And that doesn't just mean that any given individual likes him, subjectively. He is likeable, objectively. If you don't like him, what's wrong with you? You don't seem likeable. You'd better like him or no one will like you. All the likeable people are liberal, so you'd better be liberal or no one will like you.Staking too much on being liked can get you into trouble.
Posts
108 comments:
I've never liked him; even back in 2008 he struck me as odd. The weird cult of personality around him also turned me off.
He's liked, but not well-liked.
Remember when John Kerry wasn't as "likeable" as Bush in '04, but the same people touting Obama's likability now were the same ones touting Kerry's "superior temperament"?
Democrats and liberals - always selling their character and souls to the highest bidder every election.
He doesn't seem to like many other people much.
Obama acolytes are fast running out of things he's supposedly superior in. Not even more likeable.
Soon only the relative percentage of melanin will remain.
Oh, I forgot,
Obama is a better bowler, for sure.
Could probably beat Nixon there.
"It is better to be feared than loved."
Which is why President Thinskin(tm) is such a wonderful target for mockery. The only fear I have comes from knowing he was elected once--can his dupes make it a twofer? -CP
You're a racist if you don't think Obama's AWESOME!!!
I've never found Barack likable. That was a sell job and not a reality. Bill Clinton was likeable. Obama has always been aloof and clinical.
I much prefer likeable to likable. I hope that means it's okay to spell liveable liveable and not livable. Anybody know?
Hey, I like this Democrat hypocrites stuff!
Remember Biden chastising Paul Ryan in the VP debate for Ryan's helping his constituents to Obama stimulus money even though Ryan voted against it? Message: If you're gonna complain against federal money, then don't take federal money.
okay. how about then we round the circle for our lefty Dem friends like so:
President Obama, you say that Mitt Romney should pay more taxes than he does. So, before you, Mr. obama can tell others to pay higher taxes, let's see you and Michelle pay an extra 10% in taxes on your income. Go ahead - lead from behind on this one.
Democrat hypocrites - gotta love 'em.
--It occurred to me that that liberals have quite effectively insinuated the message into our brains that they are likeable--
You keep using the word "ugly."
He is an example of what a sales pitch backed by the media can accomplish. It scares the hell out of me. This is how Hitler got going. Obama's eagerness to circumvent the law is another similar fascist quality.
“He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back —that’s an earthquake. And then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory.”
The Kid's Social Studies teacher showed Teh Won's convention speech but not Romney's. When Romney performed well at the debate, the kid's social studies teacher said debates don't matter, and someone asked where does that put the Debate Club?
LOLOL
I read 4 years ago that the 2012 full-court press push would put North Korea's press to shame.
That person was right.
Lefties always go on emotion and perception, so they'd want a guy who was likeable.
Carter and the grin, Willie and his cigar, etc.
And, of course, Conservatives are never likeable.
Too bad Axelrod and Company never thought about competence as a backup because I don't think people have like Zero since the Skippy Gates thing.
Spelling "likeable" like the professor likes it!
(whew! almost used a "c" or two in there. Don't want to get on Meade's bad side. I heard stories, boy!)
Obama is a better bowler, for sure.
The Dude abides.
Obama is likeable.
Just like ET.
I prefer your and GR's spelling of "likeable". The other way just seems weird, leading to obviously incorrect pronunciation.
Consider "hateable". If you remove the "e", you might have something that describes a person who can wear a hat.
"Shareable" seems to be pretty safe from losing the "e".
Then again, we have lovable and debatable and probably many others. Those look right, even though aren't, according to the silly rules I imply above.
I don't like his ilk.
Oh, the psychological ramifications!
I find Paul Ryan very likable. Especially when he's lifting weights.
Let's all hope Obama follows Willy Loman!
"He's liked, but he's not well liked."
- Arthur Miller, Death of a Salesman, Act 1
"The man who makes an appearance in the business world, the man who creates personal interest, is the man who gets ahead. Be liked and you will never want."
- Arthur Miller, Death of a Salesman, Act 1
One more: I was in college when I first saw the word "doable". I assumed this was an old word, probably from Shakespeare or so, pronounced as "doble". I remember being embarassed to find the natural etymology in section discussion.
I also went through most of my childhood thinking "misled" was a unique, non-parsable word pronounced as "mizel'd". (I hope that's intelligible.) I knew the real word, but didn't associate the spelling with the word, somehow.
Maybe they should start bragging about Obama's NCAA picks.
Beat that, Captain Underpants!
"The Dude abides."
This guy walking down to the bus stop had a black T-Shirt that said "The Dude" but the black strap of his back pack covered the "e" so it said "The Dud."
I got the giggles and had to explain.
Not even the lapdog media whores can prop him up. That is quite a change from 2008. I guess American voters are smart but only slowly and surely. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, and all that and all that.
Actually Obama seemed likeable to me in affect during the debate.
But I don't like likeable. I like the ones no one else likes. Outrageous, opinionated, funny people. No one likes that.
My usual spelling is "lickable."
I am prone to typos.
In this case the typo results in a superior concept.
Gonna vote for her. Totally lickable.
My retarded younger brother is easily the most likeable of all my brothers.
But still, no one ever lets him drive.
All the likeable people are liberal, so you'd better be liberal or no one will like you.
Actually, I don't like liberals very much. And I'm a very independent thinker, so I'm used to not being liked by very many people.
The only people who like me very much are program managers, and then only after I've come in to bail them out on some program that's gotten itself in trouble.
Romney is leading in multiple swing states.
But as a wise man once said to young Indiana Jones - "don't get cocky kid".
Obama's still pretty likeable, but his campaign really miscalculated by going overboard in trying to portray Romney as an evil vampire. Once the latter got on TV, all the millions that Obama spent on ads went up in smoke.
One interesting thing - if I think somebody is trying to be likeable. my resistance goes up.
Be yourself, muchacho. I'll like you more.
Cheech & Chong were likeable but I didn't want them as President.
"But as a wise man once said to young Indiana Jones - 'don't get cocky kid'."
Well, not so much.
On a serious note however, Urkel is a con-man, plain and simple. He's been able to ambitiously navigate his way through the political maze of glad-handing and brown nosing with leftist anti-colonial ideology and political aspirations in hand. The idea that this neophyte who's never held a real paying job before in his life, much less ran or managed anything, found himself in the political sphere of US Senators, then leap frogging into the sphere of presidential politics amongst people like Hillary Clinton who believed herself the next rightful heir to the presidency only to have it usurped by this no one senator from Illinois who got there by sheer timing and misfortune of his opponents, who has/had no record, and a past of dubious, yet under-the-radar note, along with his other dubious relationships with radical leftists all along the way. Who's familial relationships are as broken and scattered as the father who sired him, only to become POTUS.
Fancy that. His cult of personality started happening in 2004 when he gave his skinny kid keynote speech at the DNC convention that year. From there on in, he still flew under the radar, but was whispered as an up and coming rock star within the Democrat party. Fancy that. Not until he won Iowa did peoples heads snap up and take a look at this skinny kid from Chicago/Hawaii. Remember who started the birther talk? The Clintons. Remember who put his past in a dubious light? The Clintons. However, the media, wary of a Clintonian dynasty that was seen as an apparent promotion from New York Senator to president, shifted their gaze away from her and uplifted The Great Urkel. However, they did it only at face value. They never dug any deeper than they had to because now they had become invested in seeing this 'skinny' black kid as their race mongering savior. Now they could finally have a candidate (since Jesse Jackson was such an easy stain to ignore) that was of mixed race, even though only cared about the one they saw, and neglected everything else about him.
We all know it. We all saw it. Left and right. However, leftards fell under the spell and have never been the same again. The Democrat Party had finally gone off the cliff, into the Faustian deep end, that there was no turning back for them. Don't believe me. Look at the utter adulation they gave Urkel when he won his prize and they all wept. Wept like Christ himself had landed on earth to save them all from their collective guilt. Oops.
Oh how the mighty godhead has fallen. And in his political and messianic failure, the mouth-breathing Urkel zombies are out walking again to ensure his failure continues lest their entire political ideology and ideas get killed for what they are; a scam and a lie that is predicated on the total and utter gullibility of an electorate that has bought into their ideology of their lies of a government run safety net that will always be there for them regardless of how much it costs because they will never, ever have to pay for it. That half of America are the real suckers who are making sure the other half isn't left out in the cold of fairness of opportunity that they will get on the other half's dime. Fancy that.
"Staking too much on being liked can get you into trouble."
If that's all you got, for sure.
But some voters knew that's all he had; other voters overlooked it, others didn't think to look for anything else, and still others didn't care.
So here lies America, with a failed president, bereft of ideas, with no chance of success in a second term, and the question remains: How many Obama voters will recognize and then remediate their mistakes?
He's likeable enough.
Picking a president for likeability is sort of like picking a surgeon for bedside manners.
Some people do it.
It's something I don't understand but accept as true.
In the movie, All the President's Men (the best movie ever), Robert Redford does not know who "Colson" (WH Consul) is. His boss talks about a caption on the wall of Colson: If you get them by their balls, their hearts and minds will follow.
As someone who interned at the NYT (sports desk) before joining the Obama campaign in 2008, I know what this means in new paper business. If you control the eye-ball of the reader, you can direct them to action as needed.
Jill A., Dean P. are both old friends of Gail Collins. They have a guilt over Obama. They did not vet him Now, if they report and he loses, then what does till about themselves?
nbcnews.com lowers the expectations: "Although President Obama has been polling higher in likeability, Mitt Romney has had a lot more recent practice in town hall settings."
My impression is that Obama likes himself more than enough for both of us.
Obama likes his donors and cronies.
I never liked Bill Clinton. As a female, I was too busy feeling repulsed by him.
"He's liked, but he's not well liked."
Willie Loman
ABO voters will walk over cut glass. BO's youth brigade will barely bestir themselves out of bed that day to get to the polls. The deciding factor may be whether the Dems' war on women malarkey has energized single women to vote in the high percentages and the high percentages for Obama that they did in '08.
Obama's likeability is just another media myth (like that he is a gifted _____________) that they repeated often enough to get other people repeating it.
Obama was never anything more than the coolest guy in high school. And for all the kids pretending to like that guy, how many of them really like that guy?
Likable?
I never liked him from day one. His demeanor, his attitude, his lack of experience, his very bad past associations (Wright and Ayers), narcissist behavior.
He was bad news from day one, as we all know now.
He was bad news from day one, as we all know now.
Speak for yourself, white man.
ricpic, likely women voters are apparently finding Romney more likeable:
"The Republican nominee now ties the president among women who are likely voters, 48%-48%, while he leads by 12 points among men…
“In every poll, we’ve seen a major surge among women in favorability for Romney” since his strong performance in the first debate, veteran Democratic pollster Celinda Lake says. “Women went into the debate actively disliking Romney, and they came out thinking he might understand their lives and might be able to get something done for them.”…
Now, the USA TODAY/Gallup Poll shows Romney leading Obama 51%-46% among likely voters in the swing states."
wough. My boyfriend likes Mitt Romney.
“Women went into the debate actively disliking Romney, and they came out thinking he might understand their lives and might be able to get something done for them."
Dumb women, don't they know the GOP is waging war on them and Romney wants to ban tampons?
The likeability of Obama always struck me as simply the power of people wanting it to be true, so the dream could happen. OK, it happened, we don't need to pretend anymore. He's just a man now, not a symbol.
Oh, and it looks as though Biden's behavior during the debate did not endear him to older ladies in swing states. From the Atlantic:
"I thought Paul Ryan came out looking very responsible and intelligent, and personally I did not think the vice president did," said Susan Seifert, a 65-year-old retired housewife who lives on a farm in rural Ohio and brought her 16-year-old granddaughter here to see Ryan and Romney the day after the debate. Given the way he acted, she said -- "all that smirking and grinning" -- Biden "doesn't seem to be taking the country very seriously."
Several older women I met at the rally put it in similar terms: Ryan, 42, struck them as a nice young man, Biden, 69, a grating boor. Some Republicans might have wished Ryan pushed back harder against Biden's aggressive assault, but these ladies appreciate that he minded his manners."
Irritating senior citizens in Ohio - now there's a great campaign strategy!
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/10/the-gop-grannies-who-love-paul-ryan/263603/
He's just a man now, not a symbol.
I think to a lot of us who voted for him, and probably will again, he always was just a man. To some people, particularly blacks, he was more than that for obvious and (to me) understandable reasons. I sure didn't begrudge anyone making him a symbol.
But it's a mistake to believe all Obama supporters are alike.
That's just my two cents.
Irene said...
nbcnews.com lowers the expectations: "Although President Obama has been polling higher in likeability, Mitt Romney has had a lot more recent practice in town hall settings."
Won't work. We've been told the town hall is Barry's venue and he's going to be "feistier".
Problem is, the same thing that helped the Romster last time will also work here.
Last time, he basically presented a business plan, something he's done all his adult life. He'll do the flip side of that same thing tomorrow night, answering questions and defending his assertions.
Barry's used to filtered questions, softball interviews, and giving speeches.
Not the same thing.
" they came out thinking he might understand their lives and might be able to get something done for them.”…
That's pathetic. Nobody is ever gonna meet that standard. He doesn't know you, it's not about you, and try thinking of something larger than yourself. We don't elect Santa Claus - he just shows up, usually drunk. Even then, he stops coming around when you get to the 3rd grade.
Please tell me half the voters are not really thinking like this.
@bob ellison: i did exactly the same thing with misled, except i was a junior in college before i figured this out. an ex-girlfriend's aunt was taking a picture of my ex-gf and i taking with her mother at the exact instant i realized they were the same word. the picture is a classic of incredulous consternation.
What I have noticed is that liberals who take a shine to you always assume that you are liberal too. I can't tell how many times that's happened to me.
They think you're pleasant, you seem educated, you read books and go to art galleries and chew with your mouth closed - so, of course, you must be liberal! Hey, isn't Obama great? When you indicate, ever so politely that you disagree, they are taken aback.
The insularity of urban liberals is truly breathtaking.
The liberals value likability because they think it's how that crazy wacko wingnut Reagan was elected.
The insularity of urban liberals is truly breathtaking.
We're supposed to believe that somehow rural or suburban conservatives are more broadminded about cottoning to liberals? Tell me another one.
Inga the Lying Obama Whore "likes" everything about Obama:
shredding the constitution to get Obamacare passed
arresting people for free speech.
ignoring attack reports on consulates
destroying the economy.
Inga is all prepared that her daughter should be sacrificed on the altar of Obama and fascism. The party must not be questioned! Seig Heil, Mein Obama
phx, I don't know many rural conservatives (hell, I don't know any rural conservatives) so I can't speak for them, but I know suburban ones. They really don't go around assuming that all their friends are conservatives. In my experience, conservatives are much less likely to use politics as a personal litmus test.
I was once liberal myself. I have found conservatives are much more tolerant of differing viewpoints than liberals are.
@phx:
We're supposed to believe that somehow rural or suburban conservatives are more broadminded about cottoning to liberals?
---Yes. But not just cons; all anti-lefties are way more open minded than any lefty.
whoresoftheinternet: needless to say, you're hardly a poster boy for conservative open-mindedness.
exiledonmainst said:
What I have noticed is that liberals who take a shine to you always assume that you are liberal too. I can't tell how many times that's happened to me.
More times than I can count. Almost everyone I know is liberal (DC metro area); they speak as if everyone thinks exactly as they do.
One of the best things about the Obama presidency, the liberals I know are less effusive about politics at family/friend gatherings.
My personal RL experience is a lot like here. I get along very well with a lot of conservatives. But in virtually all cases, I'm the one that has to do the work to show I'm willing to be friends and I'm willing to respect someone with different political beliefs. When I demonstrate that, conservatives are willing to give respect and show friendliness.
But I'm always the one who does the work first. The assumption is always I'm an asshole because of my political beliefs, until I prove otherwise.
I've never seen a conservative here who's default mode is "I'm willing to be friendly even though you're a liberal."
Not in the same way that I show consistently, even constantly, I'm willing to be friendly with people regardless of how far right they are. I'll even work for it, and I've shown it.
The default modes for conservative ideologues towards liberals are almost always "You are personally, not just politically but personally, an asshole."
I'm trying to think of a conservative here who doesn't think that way.
The upside of you guys happens to be, which is why I bother at all, most of you are pretty cool when you relax and have a beer with a leftie, and forget about politics for a few minutes.
So you got a ways before I'm going to swallow the line that conservatives are more tolerant of liberals than the other way around.
That beer can be a Hennessy by the way.
We're supposed to believe that somehow rural or suburban conservatives are more broadminded about cottoning to liberals? Tell me another one.
Anyone in American who isn't left-wing has three options:
1. Shun all popular culture.
2. Learn to tolerate left-wing viewpoints.
3. Go nuts.
We're constantly exposed to left-wing viewpoints, ergo we learn to tolerate them whether we like them or not. Left-wingers don't face that problem.
Fair enough Revenant.
I just want to say though, I've learned to tolerate right-wing viewpoints. I think I demonstrate that here pretty regularly, without compromising my liberal beliefs. And that's keeping it real.
I'm trying to think of a conservative here who doesn't think that way.
What do you do, phx, when the other side routinely phrases all political opposition as "hatred," "bigotry," and "lies?"
So are you asking what I do when my positions are routinely characterized as "hatred" "bigotry" and "lies"?
Because I can tell you the answer to that.
You might not want to hear what I do though, because I'm someone who's goal is to find a human being behind all that bullshit, rather than show how I got a bigger dick than they do.
OK, give me your answer.
I'm all ears. And, I'll take my time and consider before (if) I respond.
In your case ST, if I were your guru I would require you to say something respectful or even get an off-topic discussion going with ...
wait for it...
....
Andy R.
You have a visceral reaction to this guy that's completely out of proportion to his sins. Or so it seems to me.
Andy's just another guy fighting for his cause, just like most of you. Is he an asshole sometimes? Who the fuck here isn't? I mean honestly ST, you KNOW you've been an asshole sometimes. Don't front.
I admit I have to. I can tell you specifically who I was prick to and what I said.
I picked Andy because he's your particular demon from what I can see.
But hey, forget I said anything. Peace.
I'm not here to fix anybody. I'm here to take the responsibility for myself.
That to me is what freedom is. That's liberty. Taking the fulll responsibility for myself.
I can do that in a concentration camp.
What serious person gives a fuck about likeable. In my 65 years I've never given a shit about likeable. Yeah, it can have influence, but when the rubber meets the road it's in the back seat for sure. Not driving. That's when skill takes over.
phx, a person can only call you evil for your beliefs so often before you write that person off.
Andy R. is one of the members of this community whom I simply scroll past. He has nothing to add to the conversation that I have seen. He's not the best example you could have picked in your argument with Shouting Thomas.
FWIW, I come from a pretty conservative rural community. Seven years ago most of it came up to NYC to see me marry a wonderful Latina from the Bronx. Honestly, only one member of my extended family has been anything except loving towards her and our two children. And that one is an aunt by marriage, and not generally well-liked by anyone. (She's also a registered Democrat, but to be fair I doubt she has an Obama sign in her yard.)
Eh, there's always one.
Mark if we're talking about who is more tolerant of who, liberals or conservatives, well then Andy R is the perfect example to use for some of you since you feel that way about him.
Because there are people here who I've felt just as bad or worse about than you, and I've been willing to reach out to them.
But hey, stick to your guns, that's fine. I'm not selling anything to anyone. Just don't try to sell me that conservatives are more tolerant than liberals if you can't even make an effort to say a single civil thing to your worse opponent.
Hell, that's not even good warfare. Didn't you guys ever read the Art of War?
Jesus Andy R's not even much of a name caller. Well sometimes but he don't dish out nowhere near what he takes. Just sit back and watch objectively some time - don't take part, just evaluate. Andy just sells his political point of view without compromising. Good on him. He's a warrior. Some of you can't disentangle your personal feelings and egos from your political positions.
And that's just bad tactics, bad form. Part of the problem with our country.
And no I'm not saying it's just you.
There's tolerant and then there's stupid and/or immoral.
You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them.
This quote is merely meant to point out that at times talking is pointless.
A mind that can't be changed ceases to be a mind, and is instead merely an affectation.
-- Me.
And FWIW, my favorite politician in the country right now is Andrew Cuomo.
Because he has actual policies that aren't off-the-shelf partisan schlock.
I don't disagree Mark.
I'm just saying that particular point is almost never true in American politics. Certainly not on a small site of nobodies like us at Althouse.
It's not like any of us here has any real political power, or are responsible for whatever it is that plagues our country.
That's why it's literally nothing, nothing at all for me to take the most obnoxious, bigoted, stereotyped racist of a right-winger and be willing to have a drink, a few laughs, talk some music, before getting back to the political argument.
He doesn't have any real power - except maybe over his kids, and they probably already want to be the opposite of him anyway. He's an impotent nobody.
Same is true of your worst stereotyped liberal.
Certainly true of 99% of Althouse denizens I would guess. What, me get angry at you? Why???
We're just a couple of Americans from what I see.
Final point:
Andy just sells his political point of view without compromising.
You might re-think the word "sells" because if that's how he sells his POV, he'd starve as a salesman.
"Buy my product or you're an evil racist homophobe." Right.
OTOH, that's pretty much Obama's pitch right now, without the "homophobe" part.
PHX, I'm just a Happy Warrior. I'd buy you a drink. Just don't expect me to back down from my opinions unless you're really on top of your game.
I would do you the same courtesy, and if it got heated, I'd buy another drink and bemoan my Oriole's loss in the playoffs the Yankees.
My brother, that's pretty much everybody's pitch these days.
@phx:
That beer can be a Hennessy by the way.
---Oh god, you're one those faggot-ass liberals, eh?
If lefties had any balls...they'd be anti-lefties.
likeability gets a red line likability does not.
And this red line thing knows so much more than I do. Except for all those things it didn't know. That's my favorite thing on the dropdown menu, the one that goes, learn bitch. Like just now it says dropdown is wrong and I'm over here going, well for now on it's right. Bitch.
For we cannot be ruled by the dotted red line.
And no, I really like people of differing color shade persuasions but I don't like Himself. I reach out to them but not that guy. Just last night for instance, late in the evening when regular people are asleep there was a noisome pounding at the neighbor's door. Pounding and pounding. This happened before and I just let it go on until it resolved itself, but then I felt bad because maybe the guy had to go to the bathroom and I resolved not to be so standoffish and distant again and so this time I didn't. there it was again, the pounding. So I opened my door and asked, "Are you okay?" Embarrassed, he apologized for the noise.
Do you have to go to the bathroom?
What?
There's one right here, a foot away.
Uh, no. No. No problem.
A refreshing beverage?
No. ha ha ha ha What?
Mac and cheese?
No. I'm fine. He'll be right out. I'm fine. Everything's okay. Sorry.
See? I reached out to an unknown entity and boldly face potential danger, and now the neighbor guy thinks I'm a perv. But I would not reach out like that to Himself, a known entity, instead I'd be thinking, ha ha ha piss your pants you no-key-having little bitch.
For many, likeability goes only as far as what the person can do for you.
In which case its not really likeability.
Its more like a proxy for theft.
Jesus Andy R's not even much of a name caller. Well sometimes but he don't dish out nowhere near what he takes. Just sit back and watch objectively some time - don't take part, just evaluate. Andy just sells his political point of view without compromising. Good on him. He's a warrior. Some of you can't disentangle your personal feelings and egos from your political positions.
We could all do a better job of depersonalizing our conflicts, but Andy's a terrible example. Several resident lefties are at least clever, or insightful, or (in Inga's case) possessed of a modicum of a personality. Andy is an unimaginative credulous fool who resembles nothing so much as a Jim Crow-era racist that hates only because it's popular to do so.
Andy is an unimaginative credulous fool who resembles nothing so much as a Jim Crow-era racist that hates only because it's popular to do so.
As I said, I never see him dish it out the way you guys do. Some of you don't see yourselves at all. You write yourselves excuses.
But I'm always the one who does the work first. The assumption is always I'm an asshole because of my political beliefs, until I prove otherwise.
And yet, on looking through some past posts, you were awfully eager to believe the "White House" fellow was a committed Romney supporter though, weren't you? Doesn't sound all that open-minded.
And yet, on looking through some past posts, you were awfully eager to believe the "White House" fellow was a committed Romney supporter though, weren't you? Doesn't sound all that open-minded.
And did I own up to it or not? Didn't I say "If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Mea culpa."
So the so-called conservative standard is "Liberals aren't allowed to be wrong, even if they admit it and recant."
Admitting I was wrong shows to your mind I'm closed-minded.
And when did you here ever once, just once, even hint that you might be wrong?
'Victor Erimita' said, "He doesn't seem to like many other people much."
Or, more accurately he sees himself as a champion of "the People," it's just that he doesn't much care for any particular persons.
That is, he likes the abstraction; it's just actual, living individuals that he doesn't much care for.
I'm not sure it's got anything to do with who is a name-caller or not.
Reminds me of that self-important guy who got all hurt that Althouse said his argument was bull shit. He objected to "bull shit" because it was awful and hurtful and uncivil... or something. At any rate, it offended his own feelings about the level of discourse he was entitled to receive.
I call Andy a bigot because he is a bigot. It doesn't matter if he name-calls or not if he's expressing bigotry. A person can be entirely "civil" and say the most offensive things and hold the most blinkered and prejudiced opinions. All without ever name-calling.
(It's actually not fair to use Andy as an example here since he's not around. Sorry, Andy.)
Other than that I *try* to avoid empty and personal rants and I *try* to take every comment on it's own merit no matter who it's from. No opposition for the sake of opposition.
But I do expect liberals I meet in real life to express themselves as if every person they meet agrees with them. And yes, it would probably take them making an effort before I decided they were an exception to the rule. Maybe that's unfair. Maybe I wouldn't notice if a conservative acted the same way. But it is what I expect and I don't think it's a figment of my imagination.
As I said, I never see him dish it out the way you guys do. Some of you don't see yourselves at all. You write yourselves excuses.
With respect (sincerely), I think that your perception of his relentless and baseless accusations of bigotry as not "dishing it out" is itself inaccurate. It's not as original as many of his critics', but it is absolutely full of hate.
Does that excuse things? Probably not. But the question, as I understand it, is whether the hate is expressed, and in this case, it is.
Respect Pookie. Respect for Synova's thoughtful response as well.
Post a Comment