Corroboration?
... the practice of allowing new or recently relocated voters to establish residency in a ward and register to vote by having someone vouch for them if they lack an acceptable document that shows their address....
Sen. Mary Lazich, the law's chief sponsor, said the corroboration ban would stop only those attempting voter fraud... Lazich said election clerks told her several years before the law passed that they worried that "chain corroboration" — large groups of people vouching for each other — was "out of hand."...
Some students and homeless people have used corroboration, but [Diane Hermann-Brown, past president and current communications chairwoman for the Wisconsin Municipal Clerks Association] said new brides and elderly women who move in with adult their children are most likely to be hurt by the ban when they don't have utility bills or other common proofs of residence in their names....
A River Falls man who had moved in with his girlfriend but didn't change his address or have any utilities in his name was unable to register to vote even though the chief election inspector at the polling place knew him well, said Carolyn Castore of Milwaukee, who coordinated 150 observers across the state.
"It chagrined the chief inspector because that man lived next door to her and had shoveled her sidewalk last winter," according to a league report on problems at the polls.
So... it seems that somehow Democrats have this vision of modern life where everyone knows everyone else personally and there's nothing to verify and only terrible Republican meanies — trying to disenfranchise new brides and elderly women — would expect something more than just people vouching for each other. The Dems are selling this rosy optimistic picture of community, where the fornicator next door shovels your snow, and the Repubs are troubling us with scary pessimism: hordes of who-know-who — student-y and homeless-looking characters — corroborating lies.
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32 comments:
Liberals never stop pulling stuff out of their asses.
Perhaps the great Chip Ahoy can depict this for us?
As the saying goes, consider the possibilities.
The next best thing to ACORN.
In my county, because of restrictions on purging voter rolls, we have for some time had more people registerd to vote than live in the county. This has begun to trouble even the County Clerk in this all Decomcratic county.
Chicago style politics should be no surprise after four years of Chicago's best in office.
The people whose votes are being suppressed are the deployed military. I wonder why that is ?
Absentee ballot requests down 75% in Florida and Virginia.
My bank take corroboration in lieu of a valid ID, why isn't his good enough to vote?
But do note that if I want to buy a fishing license in Wisconsin I not only have to show a photo ID, I have to give the cashier at the bait shop my social security number!
Remember Al Gore and 'count every chad?".
And Pelosi saying every vote must count?
Well voter fraud is like printing counterfeit money. It cheapens the currency and hurts everyone who has honest money (or honest votes.)
No matter if you are Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, 'Green', etc.. you many think cheating a bit will help your side but in the long run it will destroy everyone's side.
And we will go the way of 'banana' republics if we allow this.
Voter ID laws are not only valid but a MUST to keep the voting process honest, just as counterfeit laws keep our currency solid and strong (till the government overprints money but that's another whole kettle of fish.)
The Dems are selling this rosy optimistic picture of community, where the fornicator next door shovels your snow
Classic! Even fornicators ought to be able to vote, though.
Democrat Talking Point: "If you are prohibited from casting fraudulent votes, you are disenfranchised."
Pete Hamill pronounced the word as corrobation several times in an Imus interview long ago, an idea that has probably not been corrobated.
"Even fornicators ought to be able to vote, though."
Of course they should.
But only once.
In their proper precinct.
Otherwise, they fornicate the vote with fraud.
This is such bullshit. College students should vote where their legal domicile is. Or register their legal addresse to where they go to school. Want to see a shit storm? Require college kids from out of state to get their driver's license in the state their college is in.
The other examples? Please. Somehow those people can manage to get to the post office to get change of address forms. Somehow they manage to notify government agencies of their change of address for their entitlements. Or the power company among others.
If they have been to busy to do the above they can ways vote where they are registered to vote.
The dems have to pick better examples. Fall Rivers man is the best they've got. Can't be bothered to "change his address" but should vote at his new location anyway. I wonder what his driver's license says his address is.
Gee, he wouldn't happen to still be registered at his old address, would he? I'm thinking likely so. And if so, that would go a long way toward his problem getting registered twice. But his girlfriend's corroboration will take care of that little problem.
Who protests attempts to ensure One Person - One Vote?
People who intend to cheat, of course.
Solomon knew that the woman who was OK with 'dividing' the baby could not possibly be the real Mother.
Using similar insight, those who oppose One Person - One Vote insurances cannot possibly be for fair elections, and have something else in mind.
This has to be one of the lamest suggestions I've ever heard. Repubs are suppressing the vote by getting people to.... give ID saying that they are who they say they are. And how hard is this ID to get? It requires one visit to the DMV and takes about an hour, depending on the lines (and that's assuming a really crowded day). And the cost - cheap.
Here's a link to the cost of ID"s state by state.
http://dmvanswers.com/questions/419/How-much-do-state-ID-cards-cost
The prices range from 5$ to 33.50 at the high end. And many states offer discounts for seniors or make it free.
And this is not even going into the idea that for those states taht want this done, they often give ways for people to get these ID"s free so they can vote.
Lets not forget that if you get an ID card you can also register to vote at the same time, so some degree of bundling is already available.
But it is NOT hard to get an ID. And you should have an ID anyway simply because life will be much harder for you if you don't (ever try picking up a package at the post office without an ID)?
It's a complete non issue.
"Classic! Even fornicators ought to be able to vote, though."
I agree, but the question is where do they live. Some guy wants to vote from his girlfriend's address and he has nothing on paper showing he lives there. No bills come to him there, but he wants to vote in that community's local elections, and claims to be a resident. We're supposed to think it's terrible that he can't waltz in and say to the lady: You know me, I'm that guy that's shacking up with your neighbor and that kept going with the snow shovel that time I was out clearing her walk and made a path through your walk. That wonderful favor is something that takes about 2 minutes to accomplish. Sorry, I'm so hard hearted about the fornicator, which is what he is. I'm just using the normal words for things. I'm not condemning fornication. It's something plenty of people do, but does it establish your residency in the place of fornication? I'm not ready to say yes. Does this guy have some other home? The old lady who was chagrined doesn't know!
Also, who is most disenfranchized by not having photo ID. Probably poor people. So then, why fight the idea of empowering poor people by giving them access to identification that will make their life easier going forward? It helps keep the election process more honest, but it also allows people to get into bars, show ID when passing a check, be used as identification to pick up a packages, get a library card, or say who they say they are anyime someone asks for photo ID, which is often.
This article makes the case pretty well:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765597105/Voter-ID-laws-mirror-what-is-required-for-many-things-in-society.html?pg=all
Without a personal identification card issued by some level of government, you are a second-class citizen. You cannot board an airplane, ride an Amtrak train, buy a six-pack of beer or a pack of cigarettes, open a checking account, enter many public and some private office buildings or even attend an NAACP convention without proving that you are who you say you are. You cannot even qualify for means-tested public support programs such as Medicaid without valid identification.
So, a byproduct of getting an ID to vote is that you can also buy a pack of cigarettes, and travel, and apply for Medicaid. Sound like net benefits to me (if smoking is your thing that is).
So if we have a social program designed to help the poor and they cna't even sign up without an ID, then clearly not having that ID is an impediment to them taking advantage of that program.
WHy do dems hate the poor so much?
If the fornicator has been there 6 months, he's a resident for most state tax purposes.
His other state may allow him credit for the payment against his tax for that state, so he winds up paying the higher of the two taxes, in effect, albeit with many more tax forms.
There is no law that says you must receive government services, have a driver's license, or a law that states you must have a utility in your own name.
You can be very much living 'off the grid', that shouldn't deny your right to vote.
That River Falls man doesn't have ID with his current address and he shoveled snow for the chief inspector LAST year? He hasn't changed his address? Does he get any mail? Or is he completely living off the girlfriend?
You can be very much living 'off the grid'
If you are living that far off the grid, odds are you are not registered to vote. Should we now claim registration to vote as too much the hurdle for some to do, thus the act of registering to vote actually denies someone the opportunity to vote?
@Renee,
Kimsch and I are discussing the actual poster child that has been offered up. You offer up a hypothetical. If your "off the grid" person was being denied a vote, then its up to the dems to offer up a real life example.
River Falls man is not a very convincing example.
The larger and more powerful the government gets, the more important it is that the potential avenues of voter fraud are closed down. Otherwise you will get cries of "Diebold" from the left and "O'Keefe proved OFA condones duplicate voting" from the right in any close election. Our voting system ensures that there are many potential sources of fraud. As has been pointed out, there is no proof that the fornicator is not voting somewhere else.
Of course, ensuring and enforcing cleaner voting rolls will require greater government intrusion into our personal lives.
I agree, the Dems would have to offer up such a person
Renee said...
There is no law that says you must receive government services, have a driver's license, or a law that states you must have a utility in your own name.
You can be very much living 'off the grid', that shouldn't deny your right to vote.
10/21/12 12:02 PM
You can't collect social security and opt out of medicare. As for being off the grid, you can't vote for mayor of a town you don't live in and you can't vote a congress critter in whose district you don't reside in.
Renee said...
There is no law that says you must receive government services, have a driver's license, or a law that states you must have a utility in your own name.
You can be very much living 'off the grid', that shouldn't deny your right to vote.
You're only looking at the issue from the point of view of the 'innocent' person wrongly inconvenienced (not stopped, by any means).
You should also look at the other example, a person not eligible for the vote, easily subverting the process, diluting other voters and/or getting more than one vote.
Rock and hard place perhaps? No, I don't think even that, and certainly not the slam dunk you think for your opinion.
And that's my opinion.
An alternative to ID which could be even more effective is simply taking the two thumbs’ prints and a picture (can be implemented with one of today’s smartphones and an optical print reader), where the ballot number, claimed ID, the thumbprint and picture are posted “to the cloud” and some service sorts the thumbprints and claimed IDs to see potential conflicts. A human looks at the picture when there’s some question of duplicate or conflict. Would even work with mailed-in ballots given a properly prepared peel-and-thumbprint part of the ballot (3M’s genius). Then whenever, wherever there is significant question about ballot integrity (i.e. more than half the difference in margin of victory) then require IDs in the next election. Call this a measure of civil society.
Could also do the same with guns. i.e. once the slope of violent crime moves from decreasing to increasing, request (and supply) all ladies older than 50 or lighter than 130lbs carry in a given political district. With the police providing the weapons, ammunition and basic training. Yes, I believe that violent crime harms civil society far more than murder – it enslaves the victims for the rest of their lives and impacts everyone they come in contact with – vice murder being (sadly) “only” death – which is all around us, all the time, so we’re quick to heal with a minimum long term impact on civil society.
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