In Tahrir Square, where hundreds of thousands had gathered to await the result, the confirmation of Mr. Morsi’s win brought instant, rollicking celebration. Fireworks went up over the crowd, which took up a pulsing, deafening chant: “Morsi! Morsi!”...
But Mr. Morsi’s recognition as president does little to resolve the larger standoff between the generals and the Brotherhood over the balance of power over the institutions of government and the future constitution. Under the generals’ plan, Mr. Morsi, 60, will assume an office stripped of almost all authority under a military-issued interim constitution.
Having dissolved the democratically elected and Brotherhood-led Parliament on the eve of the presidential vote, the generals who seized control after Mr. Mubarak’s ouster abrogated their pledge to hand power by June 30, eliciting charges of a new military coup.
After 84 years as an often outlawed secret society struggling in the prisons and shadows of monarchs and dictators, the Brotherhood is now closer than ever to its dream of building a novel Islamist democracy....
June 24, 2012
Muslim Brotherhood candidate wins the Egyptian presidency.
"... handing the Islamist group a symbolic triumph and a new weapon in its struggle for power with the ruling military council."
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42 comments:
Was this ever in doubt?
Was this ever in doubt?
Imagine my surprise!
"...Islamist democracy..."
An oxymoron if there ever was one.
The nice people who gave the world, among others, Ayman al-Zawahiri.
Since this is such a warm and fuzzy, funloving crowd, maybe we can send Hillary over in her purple shades to throw some more of that Smart Diplomacy at them.
Will Obma give him the bro handshake a la Hugo Chavez?
Aridog beat me to it. No such thing as an Islamic democracy. Just ask any christian or woman living in one of these hell holes.
And Zero loves this shit.
hey remember when the Muslim Brotherhood promised they weren't going to run for presidency and obama and the nyt were like "ZOMG MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD ARE PEACEFUL LUVS JOOS!!!1! CHANGE SHUTTUP RACISMS FROM RIGHT KLAN" and then the Muslim Brotherhood started persecuting women and nonmuslims and then promised to make Jerusalem the capital of the Arabic nation and then they ran for presidency and won and then Egypt became a secular Muslim nation run by the Muslim Brotherhood?
Well (and especially you carni) we in the west have to decide whether we love democracy or not.
Because democracy lets people choose who THEY want, not who we want.
Don't you think the people know they live in relative hell holes compared to the west?
They're looking for someone that can lead them out after the secular dictators have not.
Obama has lost the entire Mid-East.
Another check mark for the idiot you voted for...goota go to class...see ya
Arab democracy 101:
One person, one vote, one time.
Obama has lost the entire Mid-East.
It may be unfair to saddle Obama with this disaster. What influence he could have brought to bear on the so-called Arab spring (whoever coined that phrase ought to do public penance) is questionable.
However, Obama embraced the Arab Spring as a propaganda vehicle and as rebuke to George W. Bush, who spilled a lot of blood to bring a Western-style liberal democracy to Iraq, by claiming that "smart diplomacy" achieved the same result. Now it's blown up in his face -- couldn't happen to a more deserving demagogue.
This will not end well.
Mullah: Allahu Akbar! Now let's get down to business and kill all the Jews.
Crowd in Tahrir Square: Sounds like a plan!
So, how does Michelle Obama spell burka, burqa, or burka?
I'll get you linked up a little later. More here: ' Muslim Brotherhood's Mohammed Morsi Declared Winner in Egypt's Presidential Election'.
I'm starting to feel right at home. Kinda like a clever Coptic Christian. In Cairo.
Here's the update: "From MEMRI: Egypt's Safwat Hagazy, 'Muslim Brotherhood Will Liberate Jerusalem". I got you linked up there, Ann.
The tourism industry just let out a collective.."FUCK ME!"
So the Egyptians will scare away the tourists, spend their time dreaming about conquering Israel (kept in check by the millitary), and then moan about their poverty. Nice!
Carnifex said...
Aridog beat me to it. No such thing as an Islamic democracy. Just ask any christian or woman living in one of these hell holes.
And Zero loves this shit.
=================
Zero and the clueless Dubya - who was deep in the thral of the Neocons. Neocons like Sharansky, that argued the the Noble
muslim Freedom Lovers Ached for democracy and who would form wonderful new Western-like nations just like E Europe had.
And Bush was the Liberator, the American Churchill that would surround America's Special Friend with thriving democracies that would abjure terrorism and be on friendly terms with America and "the first and best democracy in the ME".
Of course, after the Palestine elections, Sharansky, et al did say unlike all the other Noble Muslim Freedom Lovers - the Palestinians had "developmental problems" and were "not yet ready to vote responsibly".
Obama just went along with this "liberation theme" he got from Bush and the Neocons - he just figured that it didn't take "Our Heroes" and blood and 3 trillion pissed away from the Mideast over to Afghanistan to make it happen.
Be thankful in a way McCain wasn't elected. THat old warthirsty fool was intoxicated by the Neocons and believed Our Heroes needed fresh new major wars to help liberate the noble Libyans, Syrians, Iranians, Lebanese, Sudanese..McCain even wanted sending of Hero American troops to fight the Russians where Nazis last fought them - after the noble freedom-loving Georgians were being slapped silly by Russians after the Georgians decided to bomb and shell a small Russian ally.
And McCain wanted to stay "doubled down" in both Iraq and Afghanistan and not abandon the "hard-won fruits of democracy in the fragile new wonderful Iraq and Afghanistan of 2008".
Obama said fine, Johnnie, except no major war with Iran you and your Neos crave..and no Hero troops to fight the Russians. But we will liberate the noble Muslims from tyrants without another 3 trillion pissed away or 40,000 Hero casualties.
jane, You just summarized the Middle East mindset. Very Good!
"So the Egyptians will scare away the tourists, spend their time dreaming about conquering Israel (kept in check by the millitary), and then moan about their poverty. Nice!"
Egypt is about to run out of foreign currency to buy food. They will be begging for loans by this fall. Starvation follows with CNN demanding we feed them. Tourism is dead for the next decade. I don't envy the Israelis living in that neighborhood but that is the situation. We can only hope the Israeli left stays realistic.
I don't understand all the stuff about "neocons." Is that code for Jews ? I thought Bush was faced with a terrible dilemma when 9/11 happened. The middle east did not respond well to Clinton's approach. Bush had to do something. It was still unproven that a Muslim country could not have a free economy and representative politics. Turkey, at that time, was doing pretty well.
In retrospect, we should have followed Rumsfeld and Tommy Franks' advice and bashed Saddam, then left. Bush decided to try nation building and was sabotaged by the State Department and Powell. He and Rumsfeld wanted to turn Iraq over to the exiles. Four thousand dead later, the exiles run the country. What Bush did was in good faith but didn't work. The political left insists that their opponents are evil and will not credit good faith. Then Obama rides this to victory and follows Bush's policy.
I can't explain it either. What the left wants doesn't work. That is the simple version
How about we stop sending them money!
jacksonjay said...
How about we stop sending them money!
===========
The Egyptians are not that bright...but still bright enough to see the Israel Lobby was angling for billions a year in 1978 Camp David negotiations as "their price for peace". Mired in corruption, the Egyptians saw a bribe for what it was and demanded their own Baksheesh.
When it ended, the deal was that Egypt would get 2 billion from US taxpayers for "Peace", while the Israelis got 3 billion. Both would have loans blown off and sucked up by US taxpayers from time to time to boot. Egypt also had to buy US stuff with the money, unlike the Israelis, and part of the aid was for US guarantee of passage through the Suez - while the Israelis gave nothing.
Still, quite a deal for the Egyptians as the Camp David bribe/baksheesh has morphed into a 35-year welfare entitlement to the two welfare queens...with littler 'hos like Jordan and Palestine also getting their ladle of US gravy pointing out they too, are deserving of American taxpayer dollars as "Middle East Partners in Peace".
It wasn't meant to be an eternal welfare subsidy, but the powerful Israel Lobby has kept the gravy boat afloat and the Egyptians are along for the ride as part of the deal that if Israel gets billions, they too will.
How about we stop sending them money!
Egypt is now Obama's Iran. Carter pushed the Shah out & Iran is now run by muslim extremists. Obama pushed Mubarak out & Egypt will become as dangerous to us as Iran.Carter can at least breathe easier now, knowing that Obama has replaced him as the worst President in history. Everyone except the lunatic liberals saw this one coming.
"...Islamist democracy..."
An oxymoron if there ever was one
Is it an oxymoron then to have a Judeo-Christian democracy? And why not? Is it an oxymoron to have an Islamic democracy or just an Islamist democracy? Have you ever even thought about the difference? Do you think Israel is a democracy? What about their self-identification as a Jewish state? (Conveniently ignored by most right-wingers in America. Jewish fundamentalism - including militant wings - also ignored.)
Someone give me a definition of democracy and then we can talk. Plenty of people in Egypt voted for Morsi EVEN THOUGH they are secularists because often democracy gives two not-so-great choices. We get that almost every election.
Egypt wanted change. Shafiq would have been in the pocket of the military and everybody knew that.
I'm with Quayle. We can't honestly say that other people's choice is invalid.
No one here has yet to say anything of substance suggesting that democracy is not possible under a Brotherhood member. In the case of Egypt, that simply has yet to be seen.
There are a lot of different institutions at play here. Not just the military and the people. There are political parties, political individuals, secularists, Islamists, courts, commissions, and even members of Parliament. All are vying for the last say in what goes on. This is all very natural in terms of political development. When was the last time you read the Federalist Papers and contemplated how long it took for America to get off the ground as a nation? When have you read the multiplicity of opinions by the Founding Fathers on the meaning of the First Amendment? And last, have you bothered to read any of the key thinkers considered the main Islamist intellectuals?
As I've said before, Mawdudi (a key Islamist thinker) and almost all of those after him have consistently said they wanted a democracy.
Meaning, DEMOCRACY is the term they use.
So I can only assume one of the following:
1) You think they are simply lying and they want something else.
2) Or, you think they are using the word democracy to indicate something that is not a democracy (a misnomer of sorts).
Let's be clear about which one it is you think, first of all, and if it's the second, please explain what the essential definition of a democracy is, and then we can continue discussion.
Egypt is now Obama's Iran.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: there is absolutely no reason at this point to think Egypt is going to become Iran. They are different culturally, religiously, and politically. They simply are not comparable.
"Muslim Brotherhood candidate wins the Egyptian presidency"
Way to go Obama.... attack Libya then sit on your thumbs as what you started turns into a fiasco all over the Middle East. At least Bush TRIED to control what he started.
But then, maybe that was Obama's plan, just let the Muslims take over everything.
But then, maybe that was Obama's plan, just let the Muslims take over everything.
I'm ready. (mostly)
The foot is in the door or, if you prefer, the camel's nose is in the tent.
"I've said it before and I'll say it again: there is absolutely no reason at this point to think Egypt is going to become Iran. They are different culturally, religiously, and politically. They simply are not comparable."
Well, Iran is mountainous and Egypt is flat. Iran has oil and Egypt has none. Other than that, they are Muslims, although the Iranian people have figured out that they got screwed. The Egyptians still have to learn that.
Otherwise, watch the show. Disaster beckons and will soon arrive.
My opinion is here in more detail.
I'm amazed that anyone would be surprised by this outcome. The polling from Egypt, for decades, showed that the Brotherhood would win any election. The polling also shows Egypt to be the most anti-American country on the planet. Whatever the reasons, it is.
Now people will be saying that the Brotherhood will be "moderate" and "pragmatic." They might be, for the same reasons the USSR was, ie fear of consequences.
Third world economic organization is very stable.
Take the stuff from practically everybody and keep it for yourself and necessary allies.
Obama is heading that way.
Now the democrats next move is to cut our aid to Israel by half. Thus giving the Islamists a leg up.
Anybody wanna bet this will the dems next gambit.
Cedarford?
Well, voting somebody into a position of power has never led to problems before. This will probably work swimmingly.
Any bets on the Muslim Brotherhood thinking that FUTURE elections won't really be needed unless they choose the candidates?
"The Egyptians wanted the Brotherhood and so they'll get the Brotherhood. That's not the United States' fault."
It's not in the best interests of the United States or our allies for Egyptians to get what Egyptians want. (Arguably it's not in the best interest of Egyptians, either, but that's not particularly relevant.)
"Now people will be saying that the Brotherhood will be "moderate" and "pragmatic." They might be, for the same reasons the USSR was, ie fear of consequences."
I hope so, but I doubt it. The USSR was evil and expansionist, but their leaders were not stupid and not suicidal. Nor was your typical Soviet citizen taking to the streets to demand blood and vengeance upon their neighbors.
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