State Rep. Steve Nass, one of Walker's fellow Republicans from Whitewater, said... he was not attending the event because Democratic Party Chairman Mike Tate said at his party's convention over the weekend that "Scott Walker will see the inside of a jail cell before he sees the inside of another term." Nass also criticized weekend comments by Democratic Sen. Fred Risser of Madison about Walker.Rejecting an offer of beer and brats... What has happened to Wisconsin values?
Meanwhile, state Rep. Mark Pocan (D-Madison) said in a tweet he won't be attending either.
"I'm passing on 'Brat Summit' photo op. We need cooperation & compromise from Gov., not brats & beer," tweeted Pocan, who is running for Congress.
June 11, 2012
"Gov. Scott Walker's call for a bipartisan 'brat summit' is being met with its first boycotts."
And not just from Democrats:
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I read "Brat summit" in an entirely different way. My first impression seems fairly accurate.
We need cooperation & compromise from Gov., not brats & beer,
Translation: "Although Walker won again, and by a wider margin than originally, he needs to do what we want. We're not compromising or cooperating. We're going to keep finger pointing."
Sheesh, can't we all just get along? Take a lesson from we Waukesha County residents, drink more, talk politics less.
What is wrong with the photo op? Wouldn't some photos of the Republicans and the Democrats, after so many tense months and political configuration, being together and enjoying brats and beers help bring the state back together? Friends and family members who were not on speaking terms after all that transpired can see it and think, 'hmmm if they can still get together for a brat, maybe we can too...' End the "Civil War" with the power of a good example.
We need cooperation & compromise from Gov.,
Um, you're the loser.
Concessions start with you.
Nass should grow up. Tate should be fired.
It's smart politics. The optics are great. Those who don't come will be easy targets for the fall election.
Walker needs to make a gesture to the Dems, and maybe make another friend or two. Nothing of substance can happen until the legislature comes back next year.
Hold your friends close; hold your enemies closer.
Sounds like there's no shortage of brats.
I once read an article on the old show "Family Ties" which featured the Republican Micheal J Fox character. According to the writer, the story board for the end of each episode had the phrase that Fox's character apologizes. This was because they thought they were demonstrating time after time that the liberals were right and Fox's character was wrong.
What they really set up was a dynamic of a reasonable conservative who valued his relationships with his family against inflexible ideologues that made up the rest of the characters on the show.
And Allie, re your link the other day... Which is more important, that govt employees receive wages and benefits that far outstrip those of the private sector, or that there be money available for items like "Badger Care"?
I know, I know, eat the rich and all of the problems will go away.
Walker made the Democrats look like a bunch of jerks again. Brilliant!
The Democratic Party pushed this very high visibility recall and they got spanked badly. Why does Mike Tate still have his job?
"Wisconsin values" should always be paired with a "Civility Bullshit" tag.
It means whatever the Democrats say it means: - either "compromise and get along" which means Republicans should simply agree to Democrats proposals; or keep "fighting (by any means necessary) for progressive values" if they are asked to compromise.
If only the Wisconsin Dems had more money to spread that awesome inclusive message around, they wouldn't be in the position of petulant crybabies....um, wait a minute....
Walker made the Democrats look like a bunch of jerks again. Brilliant!
He even made a fellow Republican look like a jerk!
Seriously, it's dumb for anybody to pass this up.
No brats for Brat Summit.
Petulance is it's own curse. I mean reward. Nah, I will stick with curse.
Trey
We need cooperation & compromise from Gov., not brats & beer," tweeted Pocan, who is running for Congress.
Cooperation and compromise to the Democrats means cooperate and do what we want. Compromise means give up your principles and do what we want.
They (the Dems in Wisconsin) lost and can't deal with the idea.
The cooperation and compromise route that the spineless RINOS, embodied by McCain, is what has brought us to this dire economic situation.
No more compromising that is always one sided!!
Democrats are morons and have zero desire to get along with anyone. How their voters tolerate their intolerance can seem intolerable. But hey, they are the party of stupid that votes for stupid. So there you go.
Methadras said...
Democrats are morons and have zero desire to get along with anyone. How their voters tolerate their intolerance can seem intolerable. But hey, they are the party of stupid that votes for stupid. So there you go.
The article cited one Democrat and one Republican who are refusing to go.
Too many control Muppets and not enough Chaos Muppets is the problem.
Walker has them afraid that he can build a bigger base among the independent Sock Puppets. Then these Control Muppets would not be needed.
But the sock puppets will probably all come and say amiable badger like Norwegian sayings while they get their pictures taken with the famous Brats about to be inserted into the open mouth pose.
What DBQ and Methadras said.
When people want to work together and get things done, it's good to socialize, get to know each other as human beings, un-demonize each other so to speak.
The Dem's don't want to work together, nor do they even admit they lost. They are more likely to run away again.
Tim in Vermont, ack, the rich taste like mattress.
How about Penny's argument from yesterday evening on another thread, don't sacrifice teachers, cops and firefighters to save a dime, there are other ways to reign in spending. The union teachers were willing to make huge concessions and keep collective bargaining, but their offer was rejected by Walker.
As for Badgercare, supposedly the funds are there, but Walker isn't releasing them. Hence the lawsuit.
This makes the refusers look small and petty. Smaller and pettier, that is.
I agree that Tate should step down. He's lead the Democratic down the garden path; all the green surrounding him now is poison ivy, hemlock and Castor Bean.
Step 1: Boycott the brats 'n' brews summit.
Step 2: Refer to Walker's Beer Hall Putsch next time he tries to do anything.
"It's not over 'til we win." -- Russ Feingold.
Sanctuary (again) in Illinois, if the fragrance of grilled brats proves too overpowering.
One of the reasons Walker won last week is because he played the part of the cool confident adult. I say Repubicans go with the Brat summit and continue to look like the party you would want to be a part of. Not the screaming hate party.
Do Democrats ever compromise, or do they just continue to lie about their political opponents?
The union teachers were willing to make huge concessions and keep collective bargaining, but their offer was rejected by Walker.
the "union teachers" were willing to make some concessions in some districts.
Which isn't what you said.
" supposedly the funds are there, but Walker isn't releasing them."
Per your own link, the funds are not there. Maybe you should have read it.
Perhaps some judge can force a different interpretation of the law, but for now as it is interpreted, the funds are not there.
As for "Penny's argument," I don't buy it because public employee unions set up perverse incentives, for politicians to stash operatives in public jobs, and for the employees to be sitting on both sides of the table while the taxpayer is milked.
Do you understand that if the property taxes on a home get too high, it becomes unsalable? The public employee unions can effectively indenture taxpayers by all but seizing their home.
Scott's serving Johnsonville Bra-ahts!
(Referring to the old commercial)
Re: Pocan. He is running for Tammy's seat, so I'm guessing this is a calculated move to "prove" his "liberal" bonafides to the angry left of Madison's East and near-West sides. But I project the behavior onto the DC climate and question whether he could anything useful done, as an angry member of the minority party. My answer: Nope.
I agree with Nass' attitude. If they are going to continue to say outrageous shit like that, then f*ck trying to get along with them. They are apparently incapable of learning.
let them wallow in their increasing irrelevancy.
Remember...Walker is the divisive one. Not the guys being dicks when he asks for unity. It's ALL Walker.
Time to stop being nice and just CRUSH the Democrats.
We need cooperation & compromise from Gov., not brats & beer
Is WI right to work?
That IS a compromise, you realize. He isn't remotely pushing for that.
How about Penny's argument from yesterday evening on another thread, don't sacrifice teachers, cops and firefighters to save a dime, there are other ways to reign in spending.
If they're overpaid --- why should THEY be sacrosanct? What happened to "We're all in this together"? Teachers raped taxpayers for decades. Cops and firefighters, for all they do, also tend to be horrendous expenses.
The union teachers were willing to make huge concessions and keep collective bargaining, but their offer was rejected by Walker.
If true, why the rush to get their contracts signed quickly between the passage of Act 10 and its official implementation?
The Dem's don't want to work together, nor do they even admit they lost. They are more likely to run away again.
It is one Democrat who is refusing to go. And one Republican.
Tim, after I posted my link Michael Haz posted a comment saying that the funds WERE there, maybe he has new info?
Michael?
By the way, Journal-Sentinel, this phrase:
State Rep. Steve Nass, one of Walker's fellow Republicans from Whitewater
needs better editing, unless you want me to believe Walker is from Whitewater.
We need cooperation and compromise,
You could have had that if you didn't run away like the worthless punks you are. And if you keep on acting like worthless punks, it's not going to take Walker too long to realize he's not going to get anything out of you sore losers but a slap in the face, so why bother? He'll just ignore you, like he should.
He won. You lost. So suck it up like a man. Or whine and pout like a Democrat.
Maybe Nass and Pocan can have an alternative Brat Summit.
"The union teachers were willing to make huge concessions and keep collective bargaining,"
Yeah (echoing Jay), how is this even possible? There is no state-wide teachers contract. You're just mouthing a Democrat talking point.
Christopher in MA said...
He won. You lost. So suck it up like a man. Or whine and pout like a Democrat.
Or like a Republican from Whitewater.
don't sacrifice teachers, cops and firefighters to save a dime, there are other ways to reign in spending
Why not. If the teachers are not teaching or are incapable of doing their jobs effectively, why keep hiring more teachers who will just continue to contribute to the bloated underfunded pension plans. Why not go to charter schools.
If the cops who are close to retirement are able to basically sit on their asses in clerical positions and padding their defined benefit plans, perhaps we have more staff than we need.
If the fire departments are over staffed and over paid, why not outsource the whole program and go to a free market fire department.
Public unions, bloated unrealistic pensions and benefit packages, tenured and protected incompetent or substandard employees.
When the Dems try to scare us/me with the boo hoo...we will have to lay off teachers, cops, firemen......I say GOOD!!!!!! Let's do it. Give it a try.
I blame east side and near west side liberals for this incivility. Sheesh!
We'll just have to wait and see what our new Amway and Confederate Overlords want us to do. No sense worrying about until then.
Standby. And Forward!
My link about Badgercare lawsuit from the other day
Hi, garage! Hoosier your governor?
DBQ, Penny and Paddy O who agreed with her in that thread are not Dems, as far as I know.
"Or like a Republican from Whitewater."
Do you mean Whitewater, the criminal conspiracy that people went to jail, including one who went rather than rat on Clinton. That Whitewater ?
I think Nass is all wet.
Do you mean Whitewater, the criminal conspiracy that people went to jail, including one who went rather than rat on Clinton. That Whitewater ?
No. Whitewater, Wisconsin.
Michael K said...
Do you mean Whitewater, the criminal conspiracy that people went to jail, including one who went rather than rat on Clinton. That Whitewater ?
No, I meant Whitewater, Wisconsin, home of the Republican state rep who'd rather hold his breath and turn blue than go have some beers and brats with the other side at the invitation of the Governor.
You weren't even close!
How about Penny's argument from yesterday evening on another thread, don't sacrifice teachers, cops and firefighters to save a dime,
The FBI just reported that violent crime has fallen another 4%
The "teachers" are doing a miserable job and the more let go, the better.
Is there some rash of fires in WI or anywhere else that aren't being put out that requires Obama to hire more firefighters?
Hi, garage! Hoosier your governor?
ALEC, Amway, Diane Hendricks, Swiftboat Liars, and other assorted billionaires that could care less about Wisconsin's best interests. You didn't think Walker was smart enough to draft these bills did you?
But I admit I will laugh at your next paycut dude, I really will. My pay isn't getting cut. I won't feel the hundreds of millions more in cuts coming to the UW. Hell, I don't even have to live in Wisconsin if I don't want to.
don't sacrifice teachers, cops and firefighters to save a dime, there are other ways to reign in spending
How about this.
In exchange for contributing 10% more to their own pensions and 25% more to their own medical insurance, cops, teachers, and firefighters get to live a right to work, Wisconsin?
Anybody watch Face the Nation yesterday? Walker said that NOT protecting firefighters, police and teachers isn't what he "thinks of when he thinks of big government".
So he disagrees with Romney and many of you here.
I love this:
“First of all, we look at Wisconsin as a win."
- Howard Dean
Garage C. Custer said:
"Standby, forward" whatever the hell that means.
Fourth times a charm.
Brats again! Assuming excellent brats cooked excellently, the key to prevailing in competing brat summits will be in the accompaniments. How to have a superior brat summit:
1) Aged rolls. Disavow hotdog buns. Too foamy, flimsy, insubstantial. Dough aged at least overnight. Not exactly sourdough, but a lot more character. It's the difference between fake-ass bread and real bread, between loser bread and winner bread. [I bought a loaf of regular 100% whole wheat bread and it could not be more disgusting. Two loaves, actually, Sam's Club insisted on two loaves, so now I'm stuck with craptastic bread. Worst bread ever. I feel guilty feeding it to the birds.]
2) Mustard prepared for the event. Vinegar to activate mustard powder, water to desired consistency. The difference this simple change makes is unbelievable.
I am beginning to wonder if Walker himself isn't have regrets with aligning himself so closely to ALEC. Just a hunch, but I'm probably wrong.
Pretty sad attempt at getting attention when all you can do is...
I will not have brats with that man!
I will not drink beer with him either!
"But I admit I will laugh at your next pay cut dude, I really will."
Considering the fact I have to get my own salary through grants I write and perform, a pay cut would just make it easier for me to balance my lab's budget.
@John - Yeah, who turns down beer and brats?
Chip Ahoy, the brats must be parboiled in beer and onions , then they are put on the grill, it's the Wisconsin way. Then when they hit that bun, they must have sauerkraut and your homemade mustard.
No, Allie, I didn't watch FtN yesterday. But I did read an interesting blog post about it somewhere.
BTW, your new Badgercare squirrel got me noodling around online, where I discovered that ID and proof of citizenship must be presented in order to qualify for Badgercare (as well as FoodShare and Medicaid). So how is it, exactly, that requiring voter ID disenfranchises the poor?
Chip S. It wasn't I who brought up the Badgercare issue, I was responding to Tim from Vermont, quit being a dick.
So how is it, exactly, that requiring voter ID disenfranchises the poor?
It doesn't - it's a dumb issue for Democrats.
Allie, I don't think Chip was being a dick, he was just being snarky. Look at his moustache and try to stay angry at him.
You can't!
Pocan will probably be elected to Congress. He's a gay liberal and that's all it will take for the useful idiots who make up much of the 2nd district electorate to think of him as a worthy successor to Tammy Baldwin.
At least Rep. Baldwin is fairly civil and seems to be a basically nice person despite her misguided politics. Pocan is an angry idiot.
Did Feingold even appear at the WisDem convention?
Hell, I don't even have to live in Wisconsin if I don't want to.
Which effectively sums up the problem facing Wisconsin liberals.
Farmer, take it from me, he was trying to be a dick.
Walker needs to invite Halo Joe. He'll elevate the intellectual climate of any room.
Madison 'values' are not Wisconsin values.
"No, I meant Whitewater, Wisconsin, home of the Republican state rep"
OK, that's better. I don't know why he would say that either.
I'm tired of teachers/cops/firefighters being held up as some sort of sacred cows. As a protected group that we must never ever touch or change one iota of how they are hired, paid or diminish their cushy benefit packages.
They are not sacred people. They are not 'above' us. They are not untouchable.
Our lives will become disasters if we change the pension plans that are running our cities, counties and states into bankruptcy. It isn't some sort of holocast if we ask public employees to pay something toward their own benefit packages.....just like the rest of us. It won't cause the sky to fall if we can actually terminate people from their positions for incompetence. AND it certainly won't cause the sacred teachers/cops/firefighters to fall into poverty if they don't get 100% of their pay for life after retirement at the age of 55.
Are those professions valuable. Of course they are. We need to have GOOD teachers, well paid police and firefighters who are literally putting themselves into danger.
BUT....they aren't sacred or untouchable and you can't scare me with the threat that we might have to lay some of them off.
"Hell, I don't even have to live in Wisconsin if I don't want to."
You could try Illinois or California. I used to think they were in extreme budget duress, but then somebody told me this weekend that, by law, they have to balance their budget every year, so I guess their good times will continue to roll.
Pocan will probably be elected to Congress.
It seems to me that the district is primed to flip Republican if the Republican party doesn't screw things up and nominate a nutcase.
I wonder if there'll be two crappy choices. Fitting, if the Senate race turns out to be a Tammy/Tommy choice.
Our lives will become disasters if we change the pension plans that are running our cities, counties and states into bankruptcy.
I think you should be clearer that this comment is not about Wisconsin when you write it, as the Pension Fund here is not at present running any city, county or state into bankruptcy. Simply because California is screwed up completely doesn't mean Wisconsin is.
AllieOop said...
Farmer, take it from me, he was trying to be a dick.
Fair enough - just don't disparage his moustache on my watch.
"It seems to me that the district is primed to flip Republican ..."
I don't think so.
The union teachers were willing to make huge concessions and keep collective bargaining, but their offer was rejected by Walker.
Wow - still pedaling that lie? Sad this needs rebuttal yet again.
- Please point to the "offer". (there was none.)
- Why the rush to negotiate contracts under pre-Act10 terms if there were huge concessions?
The Farmer said...
The Dem's don't want to work together, nor do they even admit they lost. They are more likely to run away again.
It is one Democrat who is refusing to go. And one Republican.
Farmer, you are addressing this one issue (brats). I'm addressing the larger picture.
The difference this simple change makes is unbelievable.
Hitler's rehab hangs in the balance ;)
Farmer, you are addressing this one issue (brats). I'm addressing the larger picture.
Excuse me, but it's two issues: beer and brats, and I take them very seriously. Few Wisconsinites are dumb enough to turn down free beer and brats, regardless of political affiliation. I won't have people sullying my state's reputation.
Wait. Walker means to pay for the beer and brats out of pocket, right?
Everytime I see the aphoristic (bumper sticker)sign COEXIST made up with some (irritatingly not all) \symbols of the religions of the world, I call Faulty Logic - fallacy galore.
Principles mean something. We all know the phrase that folks inside politics (and I worked as a legislative aide in the WI Senate for six years)say about statutory compromise - "It's like watching sausage being made".
Not that I don't like sausage (Walker is offering a sausage peace summit in order to supposedly COEXIST).....which - in the rhetorical world of politics, I am amazed to hear Pocan and Nass (and probably more to come) are rejecting.
Nass is boycotting Walker's COEXIST summit because of principle. He is reacting - with principle - to comments made this weekend by Democrat legislators at their convention. You know he supports Walker - why else would he not show up?
Pocan is boycotting it because he wants more legislative sausage where principles of the winning team are diluted into....you know.....sausage.
What I wonder is this: will Pocan flea the Capitol like the WI Fleabagger Senators when he is elected to Congress?
Have fun with that, Mark. Keep us posted.
COEXIST is bullshit when beliefs and values - true principles - matter.
Everytime I see the aphoristic (bumper sticker)sign COEXIST made up with some (irritatingly not all) \symbols of the religions of the world, I call Faulty Logic - fallacy galore.
Every time I see one, I point and laugh. Try it - it's fun and it doesn't foul up your blood pressure.
Mike Tate needs an attitude adjustment encounter from Terry Tate.
And, Farmer:
Your attempt to establish an equivalency is ham-handed and ridiculous. The Democrat cited slanderous misinformation as a reason to not attend. The Republican cited the Democrat's incivility as a reason to not attend (i.e., civility bullshit tag).
If the Democrat were not a massive jerk first, the Republican would not have motivation to not attend.
In the same manner, your repeated disinformation spurs me to respond. If you wouldn't post such nonsense, I wouldn't have to slap you down for it.
Wait. Walker means to pay for the beer and brats out of pocket, right?
How about Johnsonville provides the brats and the SEIU brings the beer?
Farmer, take it from me, he was trying to be a dick.
What were you being when you implied conservatives feigned/delighted in the possibility Obama would be in danger visa-bi the Secret Service Colombia scandal?
At the end of this comment I had written .. "I'm going to be blunt. I don't like you Allie.." but then I remember you been commenting only a short time and you may win me over yet.
Chip may be the finest commenter we have the pleasure of sharing with.. please refer to him accordingly.
Liberals need to respect Walker's summit the way conservatives respected Obama's.
Personally, I could use a beer right now.
A shot too.
Two days to vacation and counting.
Must not expire before vacation.
A coworker (and friend) got married a few years ago. Shortly thereafter, his car showed up in the parking lot with one of those inane bumper stickers (I think it was COEXIST, but maybe Visualize World Peace or some such) that his wife slapped on it. Nobody said anything, but the grins which people couldn't quite suppress (honest, we tried) said more than words ever could. Poor guy.
Hell, I don't have to even live in Wisconsin if I don't want to.
Wrong whine, garage. It's "I'll move to Canada if that teabagger / Nazi / racist / honky / imbecilic epithet of your choice / wins!"
Go. Try California. It'll increase the intelligence level in both states.
Nathan Alexander said...
Mike Tate needs an attitude adjustment encounter from Terry Tate.
And, Farmer:
Your attempt to establish an equivalency is ham-handed and ridiculous. The Democrat cited slanderous misinformation as a reason to not attend. The Republican cited the Democrat's incivility as a reason to not attend (i.e., civility bullshit tag).
If the Democrat were not a massive jerk first, the Republican would not have motivation to not attend.
The Democrats started it!
In the same manner, your repeated disinformation spurs me to respond. If you wouldn't post such nonsense, I wouldn't have to slap you down for it.
One Republican and one Democrat are refusing to attend Walker's beer/brat summit. If you only read the comments section of this blog you'd think every Democrat politician in the state was refusing to go!
Well, not exactly; my pithy remarks have served as the sole reminder of the inconvenient facts. Instead of slapping me down you should be shaking my hand and giving me the key to the city (Whitewater, that is).
Ingratitude!
"Liberals need to respect Walker's summit the way conservatives respected Obama's."
What summit was that?
Allie Oop said: Tim, after I posted my link Michael Haz posted a comment saying that the funds WERE there, maybe he has new info?
Research isn't difficult.
Here is a page that describes BadgerCare Plus. If you click on the link that says "Premium Chart", a table of premium amounts at various family sizes and income levels opens up.
As you can see, BadgerCare remains a very generous program. I covers large families that have over $100,000 of annual income in some circumstances, depending on the size of the family.
The change the Gov. Walker made is to require employed persons who have reasonably priced insurance available to them through their workplace to use that insurance rather than BadgerCare.
His budget also fully funds BadgerCare Plus, whereas Gov. Doyl underfunded it by $1.8 billion in Doyle's last budget.
Lem said,
"What were you being when you implied conservatives feigned/delighted in the possibility Obama would be in danger visa-bi the Secret Service Colombia scandal?"
6/11/12 1:37 PM
WTF are you talking about Lem? And as for Chip S., I know him well enough to know when he's trying to be a dick.
@Lem, thanks for all that. Too kind.
I'm too down about the Sox being swept at home this weekend to be bothered by anything else.
What summit was that?
Goggle Obamas Beer Summit
Chip S. said...
How about Johnsonville provides the brats and the SEIU brings the beer?
Now that's exactly the kind of attitude we need around here, and in Wisconsin!
Great facial hair and brains. You have got to be either married or gay.
Lem said...
Chip may be the finest commenter we have the pleasure of sharing with.. please refer to him accordingly.
Chip and Allie are both great. Chip is the brat, Allie is the beer. Chip and Allie! Sounds like a 60s folk duo, or an 80s sitcom!
Barger said...
Liberals need to respect Walker's summit the way conservatives respected Obama's.
No! Enough! We all need to grow up, shake hands, and try to work together to keep Wisconsin great!
Democratic Party Chairman Mike Tate said at his party's convention over the weekend that "Scott Walker will see the inside of a jail cell before he sees the inside of another term."
That sums up the current Democratic mentality - that holding opposing beliefs is a crime.
Allie - the teachers have no good track record of not abusing collective bargaining. Remember FDR said public sector employees should not be unionized.
Obama's Beer Summit summit was only between the cop and what's his name (Gates?). Hard for conservatives to decline an invitation that was never extended. He must be talking about something else.
So he disagrees with Romney and many of you here.
Romney made an obvious gaffe - Federal budget doesn't even have anything to do with those areas. He'll pay a steep price for that gaffe though.
We all need to grow up, shake hands, and try to work together to keep Wisconsin great!
Might have thought about saying that before you had your electoral ass handed to you.
Or was that sarcasm?
"How about Johnsonville provides the brats and the SEIU brings the beer?"
So the conservatives fund it through private enterprise and the liberals through coerced dues. That would be par for the course.
on't sacrifice teachers, cops and firefighters to save a dime, there are other ways to reign in spending.
Cook County treasurer Maria Pappas estimates that within the city of Chicago, there’s a stunning $63,525 in total local government liabilities per household.
And, pensions for city workers alone are $12 billion underfunded.
Billion with a B.
So, no thanks.
Why should Democrats show up at Walker's victory-fest? That's what this is. I know if I were a Democrat I'd be smartin' after that ass whoopin' Walker put on me last week and I'd NOT want to attend his "party".
Jay... those Billions in pensions is the price we pay for civilization. AT least that's the story we have always been told by the establishment education/media.
Farmer, LOL, don't worry, even when Chip S. is is being a dick, I still like him, sorta. He can be perfectly charming when he's not trying to be a dick.
Original Mike - Come on, you must remember Obama's beer summit. A famous Harvard professor (Henry Gates) was arrested by a Cambridge. MA local cop in response to a 911 report of a burglary in progress. Gates was caught breaking into his own home (a neighbor called in the 911). Sor \some very strange reason, our American president decided to wigh in by saying the "cops were stupid" in their lack of knowledge that the black professor Gates was a VIP???? I still have no idea why Obama ever got involved in this one - but it was a harbinger of many "off teleprompter" moments to come.
Only because of our President's necessary engagement in this local incident - his comment about "cops acting stupid" - he called both the cop and the professor to a White House Beer Summit.
Man - now that I remember this incident, I really do see how this President acts when not given a script but talks "off the cuff".
Sun Tzu once said to never meet your enemy at the time & place of his choosing, always the time of YOUR choosing and your battlefield.
Sun Tzu was a very smart man.
So the conservatives fund it through private enterprise and the liberals through coerced dues. That would be par for the course.
It's only fair. The private sector is doing fine.
Allie.. it will take too long to look it up.. all's I know is that after your comments I formed an impression of you that will take some time to.. dilute.
Also it may be helpful to know I thought your "dick" remark was at Chip Ahoy.. not that Chip S is not also a fine commenter.
Visualize World Peace
Visualize Whirled Peas is one of my favorite bumper stickers. That and 'Jesus is coming...Look busy'
I actually have a bumper sticker on my car. My kids love it.
Walker has an impressive mandate to do MORE, not less.
Democrats have lost handily, and Walker's election victory is even more powerful than the last one.
The fleebagger Democrats demanding he react to this by 'compromising' more are being ridiculous. The democrats need to adapt to the democratic whims of the Republican leaning state and compromise a lot more with Walker's reforms.
If they did, they would win more elections.
They are really asking the voters to compromise their future for the sake union wealth. And that's really not a good long term strategy. Especially now that we see that unions can't even win a primary, let alone a general. They are weak when compared to the Tea Party.
This is how non-Marxists talk:
"Remember how I said there’s a certain kind of conservatism which I respect more than bourgeois liberalism—[T.S] Eliot is of this type."
What is that bastion of bourgeois liberalism that Obama despises? The "private sector" part that consists of small entrepreneurs and the self employed. The part that liberals pretend doesn't exist. their version of the private sector is the boardrooms of Exxon Mobil or Berkshire Hathaway.
Also, how many non communists belonged to the New Party in Chicago, and how many later lied about it?
Simply because California is screwed up completely doesn't mean Wisconsin is.
Well, that IS true. There are pockets of sanity outside of California. Walker's reforms have greatly helped your state and the ability to shop for health insurance has really brought the costs down as well as the ability of each district to control costs.
However, the ticking time bomb of unrealistic and unsustainable defined benefit plans will become more and more of a serious issue nationwide if reforms are not instituted.
You can argue the politics of it, but you cannot argue with math.
Christopher in MA said...
We all need to grow up, shake hands, and try to work together to keep Wisconsin great!
Might have thought about saying that before you had your electoral ass handed to you.
Or was that sarcasm?
Of course it's not sarcasm. I love Wisconsin. I've only been living here for six years but it felt like home on the first day. Great place, great people. My job enables me to live anywhere that has an airport and I choose to live here. It's a shame things got so ugly but it's time to move on. From what I've seen, I think most of us will; at least here at Althouse most of the bad actors are from out of state.
Alex said...
Why should Democrats show up at Walker's victory-fest? That's what this is. I know if I were a Democrat I'd be smartin' after that ass whoopin' Walker put on me last week and I'd NOT want to attend his "party".
I don't know, I thought Walker was sincerely offering to sit down and talk things over in order that we might all work together to make Wisconsin as great as it can be. I'm not a big fan of his but I don't think he's doing this to spike the ball; I'd say you just don't think too highly of him.
I do like your avatar though. GWB is a great man and was a great president.
Goggle Obamas Beer Summit
The really great thing about Obama's beer summit was that I discovered that the beer that the cop was drinking....Blue Moon, is a really refreshing and great tasting beer. One of my favorites for now.
Thanks Obama.
Lem, are you confusing me with another female liberal commenter here? I never commented on any thread about that CIA prostitute scandal. I don't even LIKE Obama, although I wouldn't want to see him come to any harm.
Before you accuse a commenter of saying something they didn't, have your proof handy. Actually this is the FIRST time I've ever responded to you on any thread.
"However, the ticking time bomb of unrealistic and unsustainable defined benefit plans will become more and more of a serious issue nationwide if reforms are not instituted."
Madison Man is correct that this is not a problem in Wisconsin, because the State actually managed the system in a responsible manner (e.g. actually funding the system as the years went by, rather than stuffing it with IOUs). Things aren't as rosy as they say, because they assume an optimistic ROI, but it's manageable going forward. It's one reason I supported Walker's reforms; as a soon to be pensioner it is in my best interests for the system to remain solvent (something garage and his fellow travelers can't seem to get through their thick skulls.)
AllieOop said...
I don't even LIKE Obama
Me neither, Allie.
High-five!
Secret Service prostitute scandal, not CIA.
Lem, seems you were confused on two major things, lol. I would NEVER call Chip Ahoy a dick! I adore his food blog and humor.
Glad we cleared that up, sheesh, I get myself in enough hot water here all on my own, don't need your " help" thanks, :).
He even made a fellow Republican look like a jerk!
He's a "jerk" for shunning a guy who favors imprisoning political opponents?
We could use more of that sort of "jerk" in this world.
Farmer, so who ya gonna vote for?
"AllieOop said...
I don't even LIKE Obama
The Farmer said...
Me neither, Allie."
So who are these people who do like Obama? Our hostesses assures us that he's very likeable.
Which effectively sums up the problem facing Wisconsin liberals.
It's not a problem for me. I don't have to live here. The only reason I moved back from Florida was because Florida is a hellhole, and we have family here, and Wisconsin traditionally has had a real strong education system. If we're going to be like Florida in a few years, why not just move back to Florida? I'd be fishing for tarpon right now at least.
(something garage and his fellow travelers can't seem to get through their thick skulls.)
You're naive if you don't think the pension system is next from Walker's chainsaw.
"After all, those pensions are the taxpayers money anyways!
This "brat summit" is spiking the ball. If he had held it in a few weeks, different story. Walker is just rubbing it in! Right garage?
AllieOop said...
Farmer, so who ya gonna vote for?
It depends who Romney picks for a running mate. But almost certainly Romney.
Don't tell me you're going to vote for Obama, Allie.
Do you remember what Bill Clinton did after his party lost the Congressional majority during the 1988 mid-term elections?
He said that the voters had sent a message and that he heard the voters and was will ing to work with the new majority.
If the Democratic Party of Wisconsin had any sense at all (this is a stretch since Tate and Zielinski remain in charge) it's political leaders would have said soemthing similar to what Bill Clinton said.
It would hae done the Democrats a heckuva lot of good if they had been gracious in defeat and had magnamiously proposed a brat picnic with Governor Walker and the elected Republicans.
As it stands now, some, of not all, of the Dems are once again reminding Wisconsin voters of their flight to Illinois last year. Not a good move, especially after the voters just expressed how fed up they are with that kind of behavior.
"You're naive if you don't think the pension system is next from Walker's chainsaw."
Let's, for the sake of argument, say you're right. Thanks a lot for making the defense of the system an embarrassing spectacle which turned off the majority of voters.
Really great strategy there, bucko.
Walker is going after pensions and "right to work". Believe me, nothing is off the table for that Ayn Rand maniac.
"After all, those pensions are the taxpayers money anyways!
I rather doubt the Legislature is going to "go after" the Pension Fund that holds their own pensions.
Alex,
I guess Arithmetic is off the table then in your world?
"We need cooperation & compromise from Gov, not brats & beer," tweeted Pocan
You first, little bitch
don't sacrifice teachers, cops and firefighters to save a dime, there are other ways to reign in spending
Why not
One because it makes for charged politics, everyone can threaten cutting what most all people see as a useful part of government.
Second, because the rhetoric about teachers, firefighters and police almost always is a dodge and a threat. Cutting spending should not mean a cut in services, when it is precisely the bloat and corruption that has caused such budget overload.
Indeed, this is where pension issues come in. Most public unions are perfectly happy cutting jobs of teachers, firefighters, etc. They would much rather cut the jobs of the new hired than have any change in their cushy benefits. Administrators cause the bloat, wallow in the bloat, and protect the bloat, willing to sell out those in their own profession at the drop of a hat.
Talking about teachers, and firefighters and such is a distraction, because while I don't believe these are sacrosanct, the reality is that by talking about them we're losing the core focus of the issue, which is to talk about reducing the waste and corruption and bloat. As Walker's own reforms show, by reducing the bloat, we actually can save, and add, actual teaching, firefighting, etc. jobs.
So, we need to not let the bloaters have control of the conversation and make us argue about firing the folks who we actually like and value. Because we and they shouldn't have to pay the price so that a bloated administration and government can wallow in its status.
Obama already raided people's 401ks when he screwed the bondholders in the takeovers of GM and Chrysler.
Once again, why are govt employee union benefits sacrosanct?
I think the "Teachers, Cops, and Firefighters" card is going the way of the race card. Devalued through overuse to the point of meaninglessness.
Farmer,
The Democrats started it!
This time, that point is relevant context. The "it" is not identical. If person A kills person B, and person B's loved ones push for a trial, it would really be inane to dismiss their argument with a derisive "person A started it" handwave.
It isn't tit-for-tat or tu-quoque. This is a cause and effect situation.
One Republican and one Democrat are refusing to attend Walker's beer/brat summit. If you only read the comments section of this blog you'd think every Democrat politician in the state was refusing to go!
Going as far back as the fleebaggers, yes: Democrats acting like spoiled brats and lowering civility do vastly outnumber GOPers acting the same way.
Naming and shaming seems to be at least one good way of encouraging better behavior. Setting up false equivalencies just gives cover for the infantile behavior of Dems to continue.
I'm tired of teachers/cops/firefighters being held up as some sort of sacred cows.
Insty: when they talk about taxes it’s always for teachers, firemen, and police — but when they spend your taxes, it always seems to go to some guy in a leather chair downtown you never heard of.
NO Farmer, won't vote for Obama. I probably will vote for Romney, or some other candidate as a protest vote.
The hilarious "Coexist" logo is the one made from gun company logos--
http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/04/15/coexist-in-firearm-manufacturer-logos/
Nathan Alexander said...
Naming and shaming seems to be at least one good way of encouraging better behavior.
"Shame! Shame! Shame!"
Where have I heard that before?
Take another look at the salaries of the numerous (and ineffective) Milwaukee Public Schools administrators before you get all dewey eyed about the teachers.
Haz wrote: If the Democratic Party of Wisconsin had any sense at all (this is a stretch since Tate and Zielinski remain in charge) it's political leaders would have said soemthing similar to what Bill Clinton said.
Almost suicidal isn't it?
Their credo is "better loud and proud than contrite and right"
Walker said that NOT protecting firefighters, police and teachers isn't what he "thinks of when he thinks of big government".
Who doesn't think that not protecting firefighters, police, and teachers isn't what they think of when they think of big government? I find it impossible to believe anybody couldn't disagree with that notion.
What's truly suicidal is the Republican war on unions, women, minorities, GBLT and the downtrodden.
Allie once again proves how much of a waste of oxygen she is in this thread. Amongst many others.
Good comeback Farmer, you are the man!
We need cooperation & compromise from Gov., not brats & beer," tweeted Pocan, who is running for Congress.
"Conservatives need to pass the liberal agenda, just a little more slowly than we would."
Gov. Walker was not elected to slide Wisconsin towards the liberal agenda more slowly than his opponent would. He was elected to REVERSE that slide and start adopting conservative principles into law.
I wish I could go to the Beer 'n Brats summit. If there's one thing that Wisonsinites can agree on, it's Beer and Brats.
As far as mending fences, I understand the Governor's motivation but I think any real olive branch should be extended by the far left. They were vitriolic, hateful, dishonest and yes at times violent. There can't be any reconciliation until those who have behaved badly admit to it and try to do better.
We need cooperation & compromise from Gov., not brats & beer," tweeted Pocan, who is running for Congress.
"Conservatives need to pass the liberal agenda, just a little more slowly than we would."
Gov. Walker was not elected to slide Wisconsin towards the liberal agenda more slowly than his opponent would. He was elected to REVERSE that slide and start adopting conservative principles into law.
John Cunningham said...
The hilarious "Coexist" logo is the one made from gun company logos--
http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/04/15/coexist-in-firearm-manufacturer-logos/
Love that. +1 for bulletry!!!
Allie: Don't do a "protest vote." Pick a candidate that you support and who you think can win. The "protest" that is done in the middle of the desert with no one watching proves nothing, even to the protester. Even if you choose the lesser of two evils, even if you have to hold your nose, vote for the candidate who most closely represents your views and who has a chance to win. The other approach is vanity and encourages no one to alter their way of doing business.
Methadras, methinks that bird just shat on your head.
I've heard this screed by Tate (about sending Walker to jail) several times today on the radio. I'm beginning to see it from Nass' point of view.
If the Democratic Senators and Assemblyman wanted to show their contribution to reconciliation, they should repudiate this guy.
Alex said...
What's truly suicidal is the Republican war on unions, women, minorities, GBLT and the downtrodden.
You forgot the elderly, lemonade stands, ditch diggers, beef eaters, and barflys.
OK Michael, will do. So far the lesser of two evils appears to be Romney, of course our friend Crack wouldn't agree.
Thing is the left are viscous bastards and Walker is naive to think they'd attend his little soire without making their usual fart stink.
AllieOop said...
Methadras, methinks that bird just shat on your head.
Only fucktards online use 'methinks' instead of saying 'I think'. You may think whatever you want while I flip you that proverbial bird.
the GOP has an amazing electoral strategy - appeal to the top 1%! Amazing how many votes that gets!
Alex said...
What's truly suicidal is the Republican war on unions, women, minorities, GBLT and the downtrodden.
Is is a war that you fight in your head among others.
Methadras, such behavior, methinks you are no gentleman.
I rather doubt the Legislature is going to "go after" the Pension Fund that holds their own pensions.
Eventually they'll privatize it into some crappy 401k plan. Give workers an option to participate in the WRS. After 5-10 years it would likely get phased out completely. There is 70 billion in the WRS, you can't tell me they haven't looked at ways at getting their hands on it.
Wisconsin is pretty gullible to begin with. Just tell people that the pension system is ruining their non public worker lives. Carpetbomb the state with 50 million in slick TV ad propaganda, and, voila!
AllieOop said...
Methadras, such behavior, methinks you are no gentleman.
Certainly not to clumsy leftard cows like you. Moo along now.
Only fucktards online use 'methinks' instead of saying 'I think'.
I think it was just Shakespeare Allie coming out. Or Shake Rag Alley.
Ow the voices, the voices!!!!
Two of the resident libruls here [one old commenter and one newer commenter] claim they don't like Obama and the older one claims she won't vote for him. What a load of crap that is.
Alex said...
What's truly suicidal is the Republican war on unions, women, minorities, GBLT and the downtrodden.
This is a war that you fight in your head among others.
AllieOop: Good comeback Farmer, you are the man!
Heh. They really think they are this clever. Publicly pretending they will vote for Romney while attacking everything to the right.
Pass the popcorn.
Stealing the state pension fund??
So, Garage disappears for a month and returns to show us he is still a dumb fuck.
Methadras, methinks it's time for your annual rehab stint.
Garage, You will be crying in your craft beer like Ed Schultz when Obama is beaten in November. And then you'll be moving your family to Quebec or France. So, give your fam a break, skip the Florida move, and head straight for the border. Parlez vous francasis?
Ballbusting aside, welcome back Garage.
BTW there's nothing wrong with MPD.
Eventually they'll privatize it into some crappy 401k plan
You mean like the crappy 401K and IRA plans that the REST of us poor schulbs who pay the taxes to support your Cadillac plan have to take?
That kind of crappy plan? Not good enough for you is it? But good enough for the people who PAY you.
Is it any wonder that people are beginning to truly hate you union slugs and leeches.
As far as mending fences, I understand the Governor's motivation but I think any real olive branch should be extended by the far left.
Why? We all know they're not going to, and they don't matter (politically) anyway. The point of the brat n beer summit shouldn't be to make people feel better, it should be to wipe the slate clean and try to work together for the good of the state. Extremists aren't going to join in no matter how many delicious bratwurst you offer them! They're just going to complain that the brats aren't vegan!
Michael said...
Allie: Don't do a "protest vote." Pick a candidate that you support and who you think can win.
But around here that sort of thing gets Allie called things like a waste of oxygen!
So, Garage disappears for a month and returns to show us he is still a dumb fuck.
Garage was at the I ♥ Willard school of sensitivity training. So was Allie.
DBQ - "When the Dems try to scare us/me with the boo hoo...we will have to lay off teachers, cops, firemen......I say GOOD!!!!!! Let's do it. Give it a try. "
===============
And when Republicans blather about how every employer is a noble hero even if under indictment for defrauding consumers and shorting employees on pay or hiring illegals...I say hold their feet to the fire, too.
And when Republicans say there can't be waste in the Pentagon or the Defense Constractors or over in Iraq because they are all Heroes Who Protect US - I say bullshit and that we cannot consider the defense budget untouchable, given the Hero-hood of all within...
++++Adding++++
We really have gone off the deep end in terming everything that one partisan side wants is for the Heroes. Hero workers, heroes if anyone is in some sort of uniform. Anyone with a "caring, nurturing" job description is a hero. Hero victims, hero welfare mommas struggling to raise 8 chillins.
Hero activists demanding other people's money be spent on their causes, that jobs go to who they demand must be allocated those jobs. Hero lawyers suing the "bad people, the unfairly rich people".
It smells like the old literature from WWI and WWII where everone was a hero, even horses and dogs.
Or Stalinist Russia where people were expected to cheer when Hero Party Officials who cared and protected and nurtured the masses rode by in their Zil limousines. Or Stahkovites in all job classes got Hero Medals and new Pobidja watches presented.
You mean like the crappy 401K and IRA plans that the REST of us poor schulbs who pay the taxes to support your Cadillac plan have to take?
That's Obama's argument!
That's Obama's argument!
What is?
There is 70 billion in the WRS, you can't tell me they haven't looked at ways at getting their hands on it.
TT tried and was smacked down by the Supremes.
AllieOop said...
Methadras, methinks it's time for your annual rehab stint.
Wow Allie, that's really a low blow considering the political heroine you've been IV dripping into your ice cold veins for decades. Seems you're still chasing.
Why? We all know they're not going to, and they don't matter (politically) anyway.
They DID just shove a recall election down the state's throat, you know.
AJ Lynch said...
Stealing the state pension fund??
So, Garage disappears for a month and returns to show us he is still a dumb fuck.
Garage has been a dumbfuck since before birth. The dent in his head he received in-utero is still showing.
If there's one thing that Wisonsinites can agree on, it's Beer and Brats.
In a general sense, yes.
But then someone will comment: He served Klement's brats, not Johnsonville. And he didn't have any Spotted Cow, just Capitol Amber and then the fists will really fly!
Cedarford, they don't need to be anyones's heros, but why make them public enemy number one? Why were teachers so demonized this past year in Wisconsin, because they are union members, that's why. But one might come away thinking they were some deviants or communists, of one listened to the slurs thrown at them.
@Paddy O said ... ...it is precisely the bloat and corruption that has caused such budget overload....Administrators cause the bloat, wallow in the bloat, and protect the bloat, willing to sell out those in their own profession at the drop of a hat.
Fen said: ...when they talk about taxes it’s always for teachers, firemen, and police — but when they spend your taxes, it always seems to go to some guy in a leather chair downtown you never heard of.
Amen.
MadisonMan said...
If there's one thing that Wisonsinites can agree on, it's Beer and Brats.
In a general sense, yes.
But then someone will comment: He served Klement's brats, not Johnsonville. And he didn't have any Spotted Cow, just Capitol Amber and then the fists will really fly!
Then he should change his tactics to a really unifying food that everyone can agree on: Scrapple!!! That will either equally bring them together or drive them away, here is no middle ground with SCRAPPLE!!!
Is it any wonder that people are beginning to truly hate you union slugs and leeches.
I'm not a public worker, never have been, and I've never been part of any union, public or private.
I thought a money smart person like yourself would have chosen a career in the public sector. It's so easy and lucrative!
TT tried and was smacked down by the Supremes.
I'm guessing it would pass now.
Those pensions are the taxpayers money! Their stealing from you! We're protecting YOU, taxpayer!
Spotted Cow, my favorite!
Methadras said...
Wow Allie, that's really a low blow considering the political heroine you've been IV dripping into your ice cold veins for decades. Seems you're still chasing.
Wonder Woman? American Maid?
Dust Bunny Queen said...
What is?
That it's not fair for some people to have "Cadillac" health care plans while other shlubs are stuck with regular old health care plans, or none at all!
But then someone will comment: He served Klement's brats, not Johnsonville. And he didn't have any Spotted Cow, just Capitol Amber and then the fists will really fly!
That's only because Klement's is clearly the superior brat, and New Glarus sucks.
Spotted cow. Yuck.
Allie, The unionization of teachers and the decline of our education system are not serendipitous. I was a certified teacher in Wi. but taught in Catholic school. Didn't join a union. A union is antithetical to the great profession of teaching.
AllieOop said...
Cedarford, they don't need to be anyones's heros, but why make them public enemy number one? Why were teachers so demonized this past year in Wisconsin, because they are union members, that's why. But one might come away thinking they were some deviants or communists, of one listened to the slurs thrown at them.
Will you listen to this mewling cow weep the maudlin tears the size of crocodiles. Oh the poor teachers being called commies. Oh the horror of it all. Listen you twit, when the teachers unions are broken and gone and teachers can now teach on the merits of their skills while the back pressure to perform is always hanging over their head instead of having the giant insulator of the union buffering them, then I'll fight for their interests. Outside of that, they are nothing but a giant piece of back fat. And I mean this in the general sense. There are wonderful individual teachers who can only teach by being in the unions that exist today against their wills but hide it.
AllieOop said...
Why were teachers so demonized this past year in Wisconsin, because they are union members, that's why.
I call BS on that. I look back fondly at union teachers of mine and yet can recognize excess too. It's a false dichotomy.
"I'm guessing it would pass now."
Christ. The Supreme Court struck it down. But I guess you were in Florida then. Carpetbagger.
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