Althouse: Robert Zimmerman interview.

March 29, 2012

Robert Zimmerman interview.

"All of our family, everyone who knows George, knows absolutely that is George screaming. There's no doubt in anyone's mind."

402 comments:

1 – 200 of 402 Newer› Newest»

shiloh said...: Zimmerman will have all the time he needs to get his story straight after he is arrested.

Gotta love that due process! :); 3/29/12, 9:36 AM
edutcher said...: I think I saw someplace this morning (maybe Boortz) they asked Martin's father (I don't use his first name since we never met) and he originally said the one screaming wasn't his son, but has since recanted.

Hopefully, unlike Martin's mother who is busy trademarking her son's first name, he isn't smelling a buck.

Gotta love that due process! :)

Yeah, lynch mobs are so much more fun and exciting.; 3/29/12, 9:38 AM
bagoh20 said...: I wish someone would invent a non-lethal yet incapacitating round for normal handguns.

I guess that would just increase rapes and robberies though.

Forget a sex change, I want a species change.; 3/29/12, 9:41 AM
Rockeye said...: @bagoh20: it's called a Tazer. There really isn't a way to make a pistol anything but what it is: a machine for using a lead slug to impart lots of kinetic energy to a small area, generally punching a messy hole into the target. They make beanbag rounds for shotguns but I would never use one of them to defend myself.; 3/29/12, 9:46 AM
Rose said...: In my mind, it is a sad day when the good man, who is defending his family and neighborhood gets made into a bad guy.

That's not to say Martin was guilty - the facts may never really definitively answer that. But there certainly are a lot of Martins who are (and they come in all colors). But all those other Martins set the stage for this - every burglar and small time thug that IS guilty and have committed crimes against the neighborhood are the ones who created this. There would have been no suspicion and no neighborhood watch without that. I know. We have one. And we have chased some, who were dropping the things they had stolen as they ran.

I'd rather have George Zimmerman in my neighborhood than a bunch of people who hide in their houses and let it go on.

Now - we should let this investigator do his/her job, let the facts come out (and they have been, with witnesses and more).

But what's more evident by this whole thing is the degree to which TEAM OBAMA is geared up and ready to launch.

They were ready and waiting for 'an incident' and they launched - prematurely, it now seems - but it would not have launched at all if Zimmerman's last name had been Sanchez.

They were waiting for a WHITE guy. And they made a big mistake - it's all clearly visible to any of us who are not blind.

And, btw - the Chicago Depravities go on, day after day, night after night, horrific crimes, shootings, rapes, abuse - and NO Presidential notice, no speech, no #letsMove program, no Presidential phone call of reassurance....

November 2012. #OccupyWhiteHouse; 3/29/12, 9:47 AM
Matt Sablan said...: Martin's father initially could not identify it; after getting cleaned up audio, he said he could. I don't think we can be sure either one can really recognize the voice. But, one of them has to be right.; 3/29/12, 9:48 AM
Lyssa said...: I find it hard to believe that they can't, pretty much definitively, determine who's voice it was very quickly and easily. We've got two very different young men, with different bodies, backgrounds, and ages. Shouldn't this be pretty easy to check?; 3/29/12, 9:48 AM
PeterJ said...: It should be possible to do a voice analysis on a scream, shouldn't it?; 3/29/12, 9:50 AM
edutcher said...: Do a voice print of Zimmerman and check it against the tape.

Last I heard, that should do it.; 3/29/12, 9:50 AM
Matt Sablan said...: "Shouldn't this be pretty easy to check?"

Some people sound different in recordings, there may be some distortion -- and at least one isn't around for us to get a sample from any more. My understanding, at least, is it is harder than it seems.; 3/29/12, 9:51 AM
shiloh said...: Since the local police dept. initially botched the investigation, now they get a second chance for redemption.

America, what a country! :); 3/29/12, 9:52 AM
Wince said...: Ironically, it seems quite likely Trayvon Martin's supporters will eventually invoke the new "stand your ground defense" to justify his actions leading to the shooting while George Zimmerman will likely use traditional self-defense justification for his.; 3/29/12, 9:53 AM
edutcher said...: Anent Rose's final point, what is the feeling in the Hispanic Community (if there is one)?

PS Could be the local cops did everything right and need no redemption.

The more facts that come out, the worse it looks for the Lefties' chances of turning young Mr Martin into Medgar Evers.

And the more egg on the faces of the Demos.

Especially GodZero.; 3/29/12, 9:56 AM
garage mahal said...: So allegedly Martin was bashing Zimmerman's head on the concrete, broke Zimmerman's nose, yet no signs of that in the police video whatsoever. The funeral director said there were no signs of Martin being in a fight, nothing on his hands to indicate that. Looks to me the Sanford PD is covering up for the judge's son. Either that or Zimmerman's has superhuman healing abilities.; 3/29/12, 9:57 AM
bagoh20 said...: "There really isn't a way to make a pistol anything but what it is"

I bet there is, and I have some ideas, but as you can see by my presence here, I'm too busy.

Otherwise I'd solve all our problems. So blame Althouse, I do.; 3/29/12, 9:58 AM
Rialby said...: What does it say about America that this is the big "white on black" crime that all of the race hustlers have been waiting for?; 3/29/12, 9:59 AM
shiloh said...: Zimmerman was told by a police dispatcher not to pursue.

Oops!

Perhaps their local neighborhood watch program needs a refresher course in police authority.

And since Zimmerman was soooo much bigger than Martin, perhaps he needs a refresher course in physical fitness as well as carrying a gun!; 3/29/12, 9:59 AM
traditionalguy said...: It's too late to tell that story about Zimmerman suffering a serious beating from Killer Martin. The video tape from the police station shows Zimmerman being brought in wearing cuffs with no wounds, no bandages, no nose trauma and perfectly clean and neat clothes.

At most he was knocked down by a boy who handled neighborhood bullies like Zimmerman the only way that works.

Re-work your story again guys. So far you have only added that Dad served in Viet Nam.

It is not that relevant that Dad went to Viet Nam 45 years ago, and that valiant Dad really feels like he is being made a victim once more.

I understand that sympathy wins in jury trials. But first the police and the DA have to change their minds, do their jobs and have a trial. Because of their half assed job done so far, it's too late now to No Bill it at the grand Jury Presentment.

A trial of the evidence is all the black hoodie wearing teenagers' families across America are demanding from Semi-hole County Florida...and rumor has it that some black fathers actually served in Viet Nam too.; 3/29/12, 9:59 AM
Anonymous said...: Another OJ split in America. But this time the President sees fit to use in to his advantage, before all the facts come out.

That's real leadership isn't it?

Professor, you're not going to vote for that guy again, are you? Pleasssssseeeee don't.; 3/29/12, 9:59 AM
Brian Brown said...: traditionalguy said...
It's too late to tell that story about Zimmerman suffering a serious beating from Killer Martin. The video tape from the police station shows Zimmerman being brought in wearing cuffs with no wounds, no bandages, no nose trauma and perfectly clean and neat clothes.

Laugh out loud funny.

Here is a still photo from the ABC news video. Which clearly shows the injury to the back of Zimmerman's head.

You are the worst sort of propagandist.; 3/29/12, 10:05 AM
X said...: I'm curious about the stolen jewelry Martin was caught with. That is a very inconvenient truth for the lynchers.; 3/29/12, 10:05 AM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Why do the libruls here automatically take the knee jerk librul side? Have the news accounts been sufficient to prove that Zimmerman's is guilty beyond the shadow of a doubt?; 3/29/12, 10:06 AM
bagoh20 said...: One thing that is pretty well substantiated by multiple witnesses, including live at the time on the 911 call, is that they were on the ground and Zimmerman was on the bottom. I doubt the guy on top would be screaming for help. Possible, but I won't be assuming that.; 3/29/12, 10:06 AM
edutcher said...: garage mahal said...

So allegedly Martin was bashing Zimmerman's head on the concrete, broke Zimmerman's nose, yet no signs of that in the police video whatsoever.

He'd already had medical treatment by the time the vid was made.

And pursuing, though the dispatcher said not to, isn't a felony.

All bathtub swabbie needs now is the rope.

The Democrats don't care what they have to do to save their Messiah.

TCB-n-a-Flash said...

Another OJ split in America. But this time the President sees fit to use in to his advantage, before all the facts come out.

That's real leadership isn't it?

GodZero couldn't even get his own people in the House to vote for his "budget".

Do the math.

If the Demos didn't have this to gin up the base (and it won't last 8 months), they'd be in even bigger trouble.; 3/29/12, 10:06 AM
Brian Brown said...: shiloh said...
Zimmerman was told by a police dispatcher not to pursue.

Oops!

Perhaps their local neighborhood watch program needs a refresher course in police authority.

Troll:

Police dispatchers do not give lawful orders.

Further, Zimmerman's reply was "OK"

Idiot.; 3/29/12, 10:06 AM
Brian Brown said...: garage mahal said...
Looks to me the Sanford PD is covering up for the judge's son.

Hysterical.

Yes, because a local PD in Florida has such a vested interest in "covering up" (note you are utterly clueless on the evidence) for a retired Virginia Supreme Court magistrate judge.

They have all sorts of power in Florida don't cha know!!!

Idiot.; 3/29/12, 10:09 AM
garage mahal said...: He'd already had medical treatment by the time the vid was made

How do you know that? Didn't appear to be one mark on his head after getting it bashed into the concrete, as claimed.; 3/29/12, 10:10 AM
edutcher said...: And right on cue, Axelrod and Plouffe accuse the Republicans of "politicizing" this.; 3/29/12, 10:12 AM
Brian Brown said...: But first the police and the DA have to change their minds, do their jobs and have a trial.

Yes!!!

Because there were like no witnesses and the only way we can figure out what really happened is to have a trial!!!

Your ignorance is staggering.; 3/29/12, 10:12 AM
Brian Brown said...: garage mahal said...

How do you know that? Didn't appear to be one mark on his head after getting it bashed into the concrete, as claimed.

There is a mark on his head.

I provided you a link

You silly little liar.; 3/29/12, 10:13 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: I heard that the Trayvon's father said the screaming was not from Trayvon.; 3/29/12, 10:13 AM
Brian Brown said...: traditionalguy said...
Re-work your story again guys.

Um, you're the one posting lie after lie.

You are projecting.; 3/29/12, 10:14 AM
Roger J. said...: Seems to me there is some sources with respect to forensic evidece--If, as I understand, he was treated by EMTs before going to the police station, there will be statements there; there appears to be eyewitness with respect to Mr Martin assaulting Mr. Z before he fired the fatal shot. I suspect some real facts might actually emerge on completion of the investigation. Perhaps a rush to judgment is premature. Anyone remember the Duke Lacrosse case? And then there is that nasty doctrine of innocent until proven guilty.; 3/29/12, 10:14 AM
edutcher said...: garage mahal said...

He'd already had medical treatment by the time the vid was made

How do you know that? Didn't appear to be one mark on his head after getting it bashed into the concrete, as claimed.

Read something (can't remember where) last night he'd been treated at the scene. Somebody else may have seen it.

(and, no, I didn't make a note; I figured we'd have another day of ZeroCare debrief here)

In any case, why are you shilling this one?

It didn't happen in WI and doesn't involve unions.; 3/29/12, 10:16 AM
bagoh20 said...: I'm pretty pissed by the outrage people are expressing about this shooting, especially against Zimmerman with virtually everyone in the country knowing about already, while the Murders of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom are still widely unknown. Just about the most gruesome, inhuman, racist killings imaginable. This isn't even in the same universe of outrage.

Murders; 3/29/12, 10:18 AM
garage mahal said...: Read something (can't remember where)

You seem to do that a lot. "Yea heard on Boortz or something. Maybe Newsbusters".; 3/29/12, 10:19 AM
Paddy O said...: "In my mind, it is a sad day when the good man, who is defending his family and neighborhood gets made into a bad guy."

This for whatever reason finally brought to mind the ol' classic American tale of good guys vs. bad guys, memorialized in countless shows and films: The shootout at the OK corral. Interestingly, the aftermath is much the same, with political divisions leading to alternative explanations for what happened and who was to blame.; 3/29/12, 10:20 AM
Rialby said...: "When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, had a swollen lip and had bloody lacerations to the back of his head.

Paramedics gave him first aid but he said he did not need to go to the hospital. He got medical care the next day."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager; 3/29/12, 10:22 AM
Chef Mojo said...: @Shilow:

Zimmerman was told by a police dispatcher not to pursue.

Oops!

Perhaps their local neighborhood watch program needs a refresher course in police authority.

And since Zimmerman was soooo much bigger than Martin, perhaps he needs a refresher course in physical fitness as well as carrying a gun!

Everything in that passage is a lie, and you know it. Unless you're a complete, ignorant moron. Which I can't discount.

Zimmerman was not ordered to break off pursuit. He was told he didn't need to pursue. Regardless, Zimmerman broke off pursuit and returned to his vehicle. It was after he broke off pursuit, it is alleged that Martin confronted and assaulted Zimmerman.

As far as fitness? You're basing that on what? A very outdated photograph/mugshot? More recent pictures of Zimmerman show a pretty squared away guy in pretty good shape, as opposed to the "Fat Pussy Cracker" that the Panthers took the contract out on.

Come on, Shilow; your lies usually show a bit more imagination. I get the feeling you're just calling it in!; 3/29/12, 10:23 AM
Roger J. said...: As mentioned above, EMT statements can be taken. Clearly a source of evidence as to the condition of Mr Z.; 3/29/12, 10:24 AM
bagoh20 said...: I make a lot of mistakes on here, usually when I assume something I haven't looked up.

So, I have to personally thank you Garage for overshadowing that by being proven wrong in such spectacular fashion each and every time you appear. You are a self-sacrificing sweetheart, and I do appreciate it more than you know.; 3/29/12, 10:24 AM
Bill, Republic of Texas said...: The more interesting quote from Zimmerman's father was that Obama is fostering hate and division.

Once again Althouse is covering for Obama. Why?; 3/29/12, 10:26 AM
garage mahal said...: So, I have to personally thank you Garage for overshadowing that by being proven wrong in such spectacular fashion each and every time you appear

Awesome. I just scroll by your nonstop bird droppings. But thanks for reading.; 3/29/12, 10:27 AM
KCFleming said...: In which I re-post:

My conclusion on Martin/Zimmerman is not on guilt or innocence, but on how much our police have failed us.

As in Britain, they are no longer in our service, and no longer preventing crime.

They are, as Peter Hithcens, noted, merely a fire brigade, dispatched for murders and drugs and Big Crimes.

If they come at all.

The reason Zimmerman felt he had to police his neighborhood is that the cops don't and won't.
Despite numerous break-ins, they do nothing.

They act merely as documenters for insurance claims. They prevent nothing. They catch no one.

A beat cop should have been doing what Zimmerman attempted, with the needed training and civil authority.

But we don't have beat cops.

We have Call Centers that wait until someone is killed to do something.

We have Cop cars, with some unnamed figure hidden from view, remote, unapproachable.

911 serves only to help them find the body. Their advice is useless: Do Nothing. Wait for Your Betters.

Citizens are just supposed to take it. To be passive victims. To be robbed and then collect insurance. Or bury the dead.

The cops will not come; this I have learned full well. Hell, there are some neighborhoods even they won't go in.

They are a paramilitary, and answerable only to the State; they do not serve the public. I have as much to fear from them as I do the thief. More, perhaps, especially should I deign to defend myself. And if they kill me, no matter how it happened, it's no harm no foul (e.g. no-knock raids).

Martin's death will be An Example for all sorts of things.

To me it is a tragedy created by the final death of cops who used to Protect and Serve. Now they are merely reactive, military, and my rulers. I am to do what they say, without question, and be happy they bother to document a break-in.
Online, not in person.
What are you, nuts?; 3/29/12, 10:27 AM
SGT Ted said...: I hope the Zimmerman families gets ALL of Spike Lees money.

As well as all the money of the New Black Panther Party.

And Jesse Jackson and Al Sharptons cash.

The Black Leadership in this country are nothing but disgusting racists.; 3/29/12, 10:27 AM
bagoh20 said...: "Awesome. I just scroll by your nonstop bird droppings. But thanks for reading."

Even that statement is self-demonstrably wrong. I truly am in awe. That is pure artistic, literary genius. How do you do that so quickly?; 3/29/12, 10:30 AM
Hagar said...: "How law school grad sparked huge Martin protest; 3/29/12, 10:31 AM
Tank said...: I'm still grooving on TM's Twitter handle:

“NO_LIMIT_NIGGA,”

He apparently had a second Twitter account with "different" photos and suggestions that someone kill the MF (who ever he is).

Put that all together with the jewelry found in school, and he looks like a young thug in training. Suspensions, drugs, unexplained jewelry, street-tough language and posturing. Just the type to attract the attention of a neighborhood watch.; 3/29/12, 10:31 AM
Anonymous said...: Gotta love that due process!

Because as we all know, it's much better to live in a country where the police have the authority to arrest and lock up anyone they want for any reason they want. Aren't you a supposed liberal, Shiloh? Oh yeah, all modern "liberals" are prototyrants. Thanks for reminding everyone.

Zimmerman was told by a police dispatcher not to pursue.

Hundreds in the World Trade Center were told to stay where they were.

The whole point of dispatch is that government is the only one who should handle an emergency. And they aren't on the scene. You can listen to them if you want, but often times, if not most, they are wrong, and it can cost you your life.; 3/29/12, 10:32 AM
MayBee said...: This killing was a tragedy, but sadly our country has too many of these tragedies on a daily basis.
It's tragic a boy is dead. It's sad the neighborhood was experiencing a rash of break ins.

What our country should be talking about is why it's so dangerous to be poor or to live in a poor neighborhood. Being poor is bad enough, but there are places in this world where you don't have to deal with all the crime on top of the lack of money. Is there something we can do to change what's going on here?; 3/29/12, 10:33 AM
Brian Brown said...: Put that all together with the jewelry found in school, and he looks like a young thug in training

How dare you, Tank!!!

He was gunned down for wearing a hoodie in a gated community, dammit!; 3/29/12, 10:35 AM
Roger J. said...: from my experience, 911 dispatchers are not commissioned public officers and cannot issue directives. Although I do think the dispatchers advice not to pursue was sound.; 3/29/12, 10:35 AM
edutcher said...: garage mahal said...

Read something (can't remember where)

You seem to do that a lot. "Yea heard on Boortz or something. Maybe Newsbusters".

Oh, cram it.

I link a lot more than you do.

And to stuff that stands up to scrutiny, not polls where the sample is skewed Democrat.

As I say, I saw it and went on, figuring there was more in this to come.

All I've heard out of desperate Democrats today, trying to find something to switch attention from Zero's disastrous attack on the Catholic Church, his open mic, the Ms Fluck debacle, the attempt to run Rush off the air, the mess that was the argument for ZeroCare, Biden's accelerating dementia, the budget that couldn't get one single Democrat vote in the House, and the despicable performance by the Black Caucus yesterday trying to whip up their constituents through race-baiting and demagoguery, is a lot of half-truth and innuendo from the usual trolls.

And I haven't seen any links from you today backing up anything you've said.

PS Maybe we ought to have a thread about what the Black Caucus did yesterday.

Maybe not - might cause more harm than good.; 3/29/12, 10:36 AM
Brian Brown said...: In October, a school police investigator said he saw Trayvon on the school surveillance camera in an unauthorized area “hiding and being suspicious.”

So, Zimmerman called 9-11 and told police Martin looked suspicious (note in the first two months of 2012, there were eight burglaries, two bike thefts and three simple assaults in the neighborhood. In September, the Sanford police helped the Retreat start a neighborhood watch program.)

There is no serious dispute that Zimmerman had the legal right to an evening stroll in his own neighborhood - the suggestion from the police dispatcher that he not pursue Martin was not some sort of a lawful order he must obey, and in any case, Zimmerman claims to have complied.; 3/29/12, 10:38 AM
Anonymous said...: garage,

The Orlando Sentinel adds that Zimmerman was " tended at the scene by paramedics but told them he did not need to go to a hospital, police reported."

So it is possible that paramedics cleaned any blood before Zimmerman arrived at the police station.

As reported by the leftist organization, NPR. Found in less than 10 seconds with google.

Your welcome.; 3/29/12, 10:39 AM
edutcher said...: SGT Ted said...

I hope the Zimmerman families gets ALL of Spike Lees money

No, that will go to the McClains, the black couple whose address idiot Lee erroneously tweeted (twice, IIRC). Last I saw they were in hiding, in fear of their lives because of this moron.; 3/29/12, 10:42 AM
Bender said...: The amount of disinformation in the comments (or practically any discussion of this case) is appalling.

(1) Zimmerman was NOT told by police to not follow Martin. Rather, the call taker asked Zimmerman “are you following him.” Zimmerman replied, “yes.” The call taker stated “you don’t need to do that.”
“You don’t need to do that” is NOT a command to “don’t do that.”

(2) Zimmerman was not a self-appointed busy-body. Rather, Zimmerman was chosen as a watch coordinator by his neighbors while taking college courses in law enforcement. Moreover, Zimmerman was not on watch duty at the time, but was doing something else when he noticed Martin.

(3) The police DID do an investigation at the scene, together with the collection of physical evidence, as well as questioning of Zimmerman after he was detained at gunpoint, handcuffed, taken into custody, and transported to the police station. Note that detractors had claimed that Zimmerman had been released at the scene, but the ABC tape proves that, here too, the detractors have a reckless disregard for the truth.

(4) One reason that there was even a neighborhood watch program for this area is the high number of burglaries that had occurred in the area in the past several months.

(5) Note that Zimmerman comes from a multi-racial family — white father, Peruvian mother (who had worked as a court interpreter), and African Americans in his extended family.

(6) Was there reasonable cause for Zimmerman to suspect Martin of possible wrongdoing so as to justify following him? In the beginning, there were lots of claims as to the pristine character of Martin, that he was a good kid who would never do anything suspicious. Later we learned that, in fact, Martin had been suspended from school for vandalism and, in connection with an investigation into that, they found multiple pieces of women's jewelry in Martin's bag, which Martin denied was his, but would seem to be items stolen in a burglary.

(7) Legitimate charges will never be brought, and if illegitimate charges are brought in order to have the trial that is demanded here, there will never be a conviction. That is because of the presence of conclusive reasonable doubt.

If you read the initial police report (see the report and 911 calls at the Sanford PD website), you see that Zimmerman was taken into custody for suspected negligent homicide / manslaughter. The police officer who first encountered Zimmerman and took him into custody reports, “his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head. . . . I over heard him state ‘I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me.’”

Right there is your reasonable doubt, right there in the report of the responding officer. That Zimmerman’s back was wet, covered in grass, and he is bleeding from the nose and back of the head indicates that he had been in a struggle. That is, it is not the case of him simply walking up to Martin and shooting him for the crime of being black.
And if Martin did get into a physical struggle with Zimmerman, during which Zimmerman received bloody injuries, a lack of self-defense cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. That Zimmerman may have been following Martin earlier is not a material fact if Martin turned and attacked Zimmerman, as the physical evidence suggests he did (having a gun and knowing that police were on their way, Zimmerman would have had no reason to start a physical stuggle with Martin).

(to be continued); 3/29/12, 10:42 AM
Bender said...: (continuing . . .)

The observations of the physical evidence by the responding officer, now set in concrete forever because included in his report, are corroborated by other undisputed evidence. On the 9-11 tapes, you can clearly hear someone calling for help. And now at least one eyewitness has stated that he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. Here again, this supports Zimmerman’s version of events and prevents any proof beyond a reasonable doubt that he was not defending himself.

With this abundance of undisputed physical evidence and the testimony of third parties, including police officers and at least one eyewitness, legitimate probable cause cannot be established, much less proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman did not act in self-defense.; 3/29/12, 10:43 AM
chickelit said...: Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Once again Althouse is covering for Obama. Why?

Not sure I see that. But she is curiously silent on the Spike Lee thing, especially since he apologized.

Fight The Glower!; 3/29/12, 10:44 AM
Patrick said...: I watched the video, and saw nothing indicating that Mr. Zimmerman had been injured. I'm not convinced the video would necessarily show that, however. I saw the picture on the DailyCaller, and saw what could be an injury, that could have happened during the incident with Mr. Martin.

I don't know what happened, and I really doubt that I will. I do know that one guy is dead, and very possibly for no good reason. That to me is terribly terribly sad. As Clint East wood said in Unforgiven "It's a strange thing, killing a man. You're taking away all he has, and all he's ever going to have." Even if Mr. Martin unnecessarily pushed this encounter further than it needed to go, his life is an awfully steep price to pay.

I also know that Mr. Zimmerman's life has changed unalterably. He will have a cloud over him for all of his days, whether he deserves it or not. Even if he was totally justified in the killing, he will never feel great about killing an unarmed kid.

The last thing I know is that there is no shortage of people looking to take this situation and use it for their own purposes, without regard to the facts, whatever they may be. I'm not talking about people looking at the statements, the video tapes and listening to the recordings, trying to figure out what happened, even if they are trying to prove or disprove one side or the other. I'm talking about creeps like Sharpton and Jackson reaching conclusions and stirring up trouble even when their conclusions may be completely wrong.; 3/29/12, 10:45 AM
bagoh20 said...: Thanks for that Bender.

It won't matter to many, hopefully it will to the people in the system handling this.; 3/29/12, 10:48 AM
Brian Brown said...: Bender said...
The amount of disinformation in the comments (or practically any discussion of this case) is appalling.

It is deliberate.

There is an emotional investment in a meme and no facts can change that.

When the facts are not liked, they fall back is "coverup"

Isn't that convenient?; 3/29/12, 10:49 AM
karrde said...: @shiloh,

Since the local police dept. initially botched the investigation, now they get a second chance for redemption.

How do you define botched?

The police did things more slowly than you expect, and maybe you disagree with their conclusions based on evidence that they've seen, and you've heard news stories about.; 3/29/12, 10:49 AM
hawkeyedjb said...: Dang, I thought this was going to be an interview with Bob Dylan.; 3/29/12, 10:50 AM
Tank said...: Another interesting part of the interview:

Because there has been a lot of break-ins in the area, Robert said George thought it suspicious that someone would not be walking on the street or the sidewalk on a rainy night -- that Martin would be walking between the town homes. He said after making those observations, his son decided to call the police.

Why was Martin walking between the town homes? Could be a perfectly innocent reason, or maybe not.; 3/29/12, 10:52 AM
bagoh20 said...: The media should be going after the Sharptons, and others out there being idiots. They should confront them with their actions and words and the evidence, and they should ask them why they don't stop it now that they know they were telling lies. Geeze, we need a real media so badly in this country.; 3/29/12, 10:54 AM
Rialby said...: It's a tragedy that this young man had to die and we should all mourn his death. That said, what the Left, the Dems and the Black leadership are doing will ultimately lead to more deaths. They are agitating for riots.; 3/29/12, 10:54 AM
Brian Brown said...: And now at least one eyewitness has stated that he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman.

There are now two witnesses.
One:

13-year-old Austin Brown, told police he saw a man fitting Zimmerman's description lying on the grass moaning and crying for help just seconds before he heard the gunshot that killed Martin.

Two:
One witness, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him — and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.; 3/29/12, 10:54 AM
Rialby said...: My phrasing - "had to die" - meant, died. Nothing further was implied.; 3/29/12, 10:55 AM
Brian Brown said...: Why was Martin walking between the town homes?

Good question.

In the dark, in the rain, no less.

I'm sure garage and tradguy have it all figured out...; 3/29/12, 10:56 AM
Roger J. said...: Pogo--I suspect police response varies community to community. OK--this is anecdotal evidence, but sitting on my porch around 5 AM (25 years in the army makes you an earlier riser), I saw two men wearing hoodies (have no idea of their ethnicity or their age), prowling cars on the other side of the street. I called 911, and the Memphis PD had two squad cars here in two minutes. Of course, the Memphis PD is quite good at this stuff given the crime rate here.

I think the issue of responding ia a matter of command emphasis, and training.; 3/29/12, 10:56 AM
Roger J. said...: Jay: Mr M was on his way to choir practice and was temporarily misoriented. I mean, what else could it be?; 3/29/12, 10:58 AM
Hoosier Daddy said...: "... Gotta love that due process! :).."

Which is really funny when your side was already determining his guilt and lynching from day one.; 3/29/12, 11:00 AM
Michael K said...: The resident police expert speaks: "Since the local police dept. initially botched the investigation, now they get a second chance for redemption.

America, what a country! :)"

My impression was that they investigated and found no crime had been committed. I guess that's botched if the shooter is "whire" and the shootee: is black. Part of he trouble is finding such a rare event at all.; 3/29/12, 11:01 AM
Rick67 said...: @Rose - Word. We shouldn't be talking about this at all, at least not nationally, and certainly not the way this has been distorted, hijacked, and twisted. We see on the news stories of innocents being hacked, burned, killed because some mob is upset about a teddy bear named Muhammad, and we think "wow, glad that doesn't happen here". And now it does.

Once again it's all about getting people angry at an ideological opponent who is "outside". And getting people talking about *anything* except the economy, this administration's performance, and the serious Constitutional issues at stake.

And the media are playing along, nay, they are active participants. Bill Whittle recently asserted Obama is not the enemy, nor are the Democrats. It's the media. A few years ago I would have thought that a bit extreme. Today I am inclined to think he is dead right.; 3/29/12, 11:05 AM
garage mahal said...: In the dark, in the rain, no less.

Hate to inform you of this idiot, but people do walk at night, and in the rain.; 3/29/12, 11:06 AM
Michael K said...: Polics expert speaks again: "Zimmerman was told by a police dispatcher not to pursue.

Oops!

Perhaps their local neighborhood watch program needs a refresher course in police authority."

No, he went back to his truck where he was accosted by Martin who said "Do you have a problem?" Zimmerman said no , has waiting got the cops, as instructed.

Marin then said "You have one now!" and attacked him.

The police expert needs to keep up. The Obama talking points are not enough.; 3/29/12, 11:06 AM
Rusty said...: I get the impression from the lefties here that the sooner Zimmerman swings the better.
Why isn't somebody investigating the reward offered by TNBPP? Is that legal?; 3/29/12, 11:07 AM
Christopher in MA said...: "Is there something we can do to change what's going on here?"

Sure. We could take a page out of the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan's book and discuss the pernicious effects of defining deviancy down. We could look dispassionately at the systematic destruction of the nuclear black family since the Johnson administration.

We could take a good, long look at what is considered mainstream "culture" - movies that glorify random, casual, polyamorous and intergenerational sex, music that reduces men to "playas" and women to, as our friend Trayvon so succinctly put it, "loose pussy" hoes.

We could look at the dumbing down of American grammar / high school education which produces generations of driftless mall rats, twitter junkles and pig-ignorant underclasses. We could talk about the "inner city" - its failing schools, its few good teachers swamped by "gimmie mah money!" slugs and pedophiles, its skyrocketing crime rate and hatred of "white" culture.

We could talk about the self-segregation of American society.

We could, in fact, have that vaunted honest conversation about race that Eric Holder professed to want. But we won't.

Because it's so much easier to be an ignorant clown like garbage or shiloh and scream "racist!" "homophobe!" or "Rethuglikkkan!" Go ahead, MayBee, dare either of them to honestly answer your question. You'll get nothing but witless snark.

Because the dirty little not-so-secret is that bigots like them don't care. They'll never have to walk a block in deepest Bed-Sty, wondering if they can get home before some gangbanger puts a bullet through their heads. They'll never have to worry about getting "lost while white" in South Philly and killed. The Trayvon Martins of the world are just exotic animals to them, the modern Stepin Fetchits who gambol across their TV screens, shucking and jiving and "keepin' it real."

But hey, they voted for Obama! They care! What more do you want, racist?; 3/29/12, 11:08 AM
edutcher said...: Beautifully put, Christopher. You distilled the last 40 years into a few incisive paragraphs.

Kudos.

Rusty said...

Why isn't somebody investigating the reward offered by TNBPP?

Silly goose.

Don't you remember?

They're Holder's homies. They get a free pass.

They're not typical white persons or bitter clingers.

Barry needs every one of their votes if he's gonna get re-elected.; 3/29/12, 11:13 AM
Brian Brown said...: garage mahal said...

Hate to inform you of this idiot, but people do walk at night, and in the rain.

Right!!

And when they do, they take the longest, most circuitous out of the way route possible!!!

Do you ever get tired of demonstrating how silly & ignorant you are?; 3/29/12, 11:15 AM
sonicfrog said...: Ironically, it seems quite likely Trayvon Martin's supporters will eventually invoke the new "stand your ground defense" to justify his actions leading to the shooting

What exactly were his actions leading to the shooting. The only thing we know is that he was walking though a neighborhood. We as of yet don't have a clear picture of exactly how the confrontation went down.

Laugh out loud funny.

Here is a still photo from the ABC news video. Which clearly shows the injury to the back of Zimmerman's head.

Or clearly shows a moire pattern due to the poor video resolution and the short hair on his head. Johnny Carson used to tick off his producers because he would wear jackets that would often produce the same effect.

Two problems with that being a head wound:

1. That is a sizable cut. Even very small head wounds bleed like all get-out. If that IS a head wound, he would have needed proper medical attention from paramedics on the scene, and

2. There are other shots in that video of the back of his head that don't show that mark. Something that large would certainly had to have shown up on several frames, at more than one angle when viewing the back of his head.

He may still have a head wound, but it's small, and the low res camera doesn't pick it up. People are also making a note that there is no blood on his shirt from his broken nose. He may have had his jacket zipped up, and whatever blood there was went on his jacket, which would explain why there is no blood on the shirt..; 3/29/12, 11:17 AM
Bender said...: Why was Martin walking between the town homes? Could be a perfectly innocent reason, or maybe not.

All the more reason for Zimmerman to NOT jump to conclusions but to, instead, investigate further and try to find out what Martin was up to while notifying police. Which is what Zimmerman did.; 3/29/12, 11:20 AM
traditionalguy said...: I never saw teenagers stay on a sidewalk when one could cut the corner between buildings.

At colleges they usually end up paving the many angled dirt paths the students create because the old square grid of sidewalks are not taken.

The EMT guys must have looked Zimmerman over. No stitches were needed or he would have been transported him to the ER. And his "bloody nose" was not a broken nose or he would have been transported.

Zimmerman is not believable. His latest add on story says he only followed Martin to get a better address to send out the Police cruisers that he had requested for his gated complex.

The suspect's continuous walking around between buildings across the complex makes such that intention unbelievable.

The issue that threatens racial peace is the profiling of black teens as suspicious and doers of bad thinga needing to be stopped and confrontated by strangers when they are oseen walking around '"suspiciously."

Are we now going to approve a return now to The Planet of the Apes type of society just so Zimmerman can beat the wrap for a this stupid killing?; 3/29/12, 11:21 AM
garage mahal said...: And when they do, they take the longest, most circuitous out of the way route possible!!!

If true, so fucking what? Maybe he was freaking about a moron vigilante cop wanna be stalking him.; 3/29/12, 11:24 AM
Brian Brown said...: traditionalguy said...
I never saw teenagers stay on a sidewalk when one could cut the corner between buildings.

Between buildings going a direction that is opposite of where they are walking to, right?

You realize that with every post you make a more stupid assertion, correct?; 3/29/12, 11:25 AM
Brian Brown said...: traditionalguy said...

At colleges they usually end up paving the many angled dirt paths the students create because the old square grid of sidewalks are not taken.

Which is irrelevant since a) we're not at a college and b) the path in question going between the buildings was paved.

Zimmerman is not believable.

You are not only not believable, you're here posting fabrications.; 3/29/12, 11:26 AM
Bender said...: Zimmerman is not believable.

Zimmerman's account of the incident is not necessary to the case.

The physical evidence and the statements of third parties are establish what happened here -- which is consistent with what Zimmerman says without him saying a word about it.; 3/29/12, 11:26 AM
Michael K said...: "Hate to inform you of this idiot, but people do walk at night, and in the rain."

Yes, that's true. And they walk between houses and, sometimes, right up to the window and break in.

Idiot.

By this time, the gather has gotten rid of the stash of burglary loot.; 3/29/12, 11:28 AM
sonicfrog said...: Amending my last comment - Zimmerman was treated by paramedics. If so, those that treated him will be able to tell us the size and scope of Zimmerman's injuries. The video here is not that useful in that regard. Of course, there will always be rubes who put too much trust in that one item and discount everything else, no matter if the non-video evidence is stronger and more robust.; 3/29/12, 11:28 AM
Roger J. said...: Again, I would assert there appears to be a fair amount of real evidence: police reports, EMT statements, voice recognition on cell phones, and at least one eye witness. I dont watch TV so dont know what CSI would do, nor did I stay in a holiday inn last nite, but I think there is sufficent evidence available in this case to make some judgments--and none of these judgments are enhanced or corroborated from the fever swamps of blogger's minds.; 3/29/12, 11:29 AM
Christopher in MA said...: Thank you, edutcher. And believe me, I don't exempt the GOP from my damning. The ones that aren't gutless about this are gun-shy; too terrfied of whooping mountebanks like Sharpton to stand up and say what ought to be said.

My point, if you want to distill it to a talking point, is that just as you can't draw sweet water from a foul well, you can't expect the majority of Trayvon Martins to be good citizens if they're surrounded by filth - whether as a consequence of poverty and indifference, or deliberately produced filth.

Look, kids, teenagers and adults do stupid things, we all know that. But how many adults in Martin's life do you think tried to tell him the gangsta look wasn't going to get him anywhere? How many positive role models do you think he had? Do you think he dreamed of having a good job, a wife and a home, or was he so dazzled by the thugs in the NBA and on MTV that his aspirations never got above the muck of bling and hoes and chillaxin' wit da homies?

We have Trayvon Martins because we don't care about them and because they can be used to gain political power.; 3/29/12, 11:31 AM
Alex said...: shiloh is with the New Black Panthers, all in favor of a bounty on this guy's head. Fuck you shiloh.; 3/29/12, 11:32 AM
garage mahal said...: Yes, that's true. And they walk between houses

Possibly. Again, if you had this weird motherfucker following you around in his truck, you might as well.

Why doesn't stand your ground apply to Martin? Could he have shot Zimmerman, if he had a gun?; 3/29/12, 11:32 AM
Brian Brown said...: If that IS a head wound, he would have needed proper medical attention from paramedics on the scene,

Zimmerman was treated by SFD in the police cruiser. It is in the police report.; 3/29/12, 11:33 AM
Brian Brown said...: garage mahal said...

Why doesn't stand your ground apply to Martin? Could he have shot Zimmerman, if he had a gun?

Hilarious.

Why do you bother? I mean, really?; 3/29/12, 11:35 AM
Alex said...: ok someone hacked tradguy's account.; 3/29/12, 11:35 AM
Brian Brown said...: in, if you had this weird motherfucker following you around in his truck, you might as well.

There is no evidence Zimmerman was "following him in his truck"

But you go on with the meme's, clown.

It is all you got.; 3/29/12, 11:36 AM
Roger J. said...: Jay--heaven forfend that any blog commenter would refer to the police report of responding officers on the ground at the time. That kind of information just kills the narrative.; 3/29/12, 11:36 AM
machine said...: ‘Stand Your Ground’ was not designed to protect an aggressor who loses a fight...; 3/29/12, 11:36 AM
traditionalguy said...: Jay...I would advise against your wasting your time taking the LSAT. You apparently have zero legal reasoning skills.

But I do admire your dogged determination to personalize this discussion and use ridicule as your only weapon to defend what Zimmerman did. He needs all the friends he can get.; 3/29/12, 11:36 AM
Alex said...: I don't get this. Zimmerman is half-Latino, a registered Democrat. How the fuck does this fit the leftie narrative?; 3/29/12, 11:37 AM
Alex said...: tradguy - ever hear of innocent until proven guilty?; 3/29/12, 11:37 AM
Brian Brown said...: traditionalguy said...
Jay...I would advise against your wasting your time taking the LSAT. You apparently have zero legal reasoning skills.

Right. Because you referencing what you saw in college to a case today is like "legal reasoning" and stuff!

And, as a bonus, you type outright lies as examples of "legal reasoning" for us!

Thanks!; 3/29/12, 11:43 AM
Bender said...: A traditional homeowner is sitting at home one evening when he notices someone walking in the yard between his house and the neighbor. There have been a few break-ins in the past year in the neighborhood. Does this homeowner --

(a) say to himself, "Oh, that is just some perfectly innocent person cutting through the yard," and continuing watching TV?

or

(b) say to himself, "What was that? I better go check it out." And then he gets up and goes over to the window to investigate? Or maybe even call the police and say that there might be someone suspicious out there?; 3/29/12, 11:43 AM
garage mahal said...: There is no evidence Zimmerman was "following him in his truck"

Except for when he was talking to 9/11, following Martin, in his truck.

At some point, Zimmerman ignored the suggestion from a 911 dispatcher that he stop following Martin, left his truck and went to look for Martin.
At the same time, Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend and complained that someone was following him.; 3/29/12, 11:44 AM
Nathan Alexander said...: The reaction of Al Sharpton, Spike Lee, President Obama, and their followers to the killing of a young black man.

The reaction of Pakistanis to the killing of Osama bin Ladin.

Compare/contrast.

Bonus data point:
The reaction of Afghans to the US burning defaced Korans.; 3/29/12, 11:44 AM
Brian Brown said...: But I do admire your dogged determination to personalize this discussion and use ridicule as your only weapon to defend what Zimmerman did.

Except I'm not "defending what Zimmerman did"

Pointing out you're full of shit -remember yesterday you said the police were not inolved, and then said they covered this up - is not defending Zimmerman.

In your fevered mind, not going along with every dipshit accusation you can come up with (which are easily debunked but you keep them coming) is "defending Zimmerman"; 3/29/12, 11:45 AM
Tank said...: Wow, people are using words like

montebank

and

forfend.

Yiiii, gotta go look up that first one. I am impressed, really.

It occurs to me that Zim could really short circuit this circus by coming out as gay.

Wouldn't that trump the blackness of the “NO_LIMIT_NIGGA?”

Ya know, that has a ring to it.; 3/29/12, 11:45 AM
Brian Brown said...: Except for when he was talking to 9/11, following Martin, in his truck.

Hysterical.

You've yet again linked to something that doesn't say what you say it does.

Zimmerman was on foot.

That is walking. Note: The girlfriend has said that she heard Martin ask someone, "Why are you following me?"

He was returning to his vehicle when the confrontation with Martin took place.

You are so dumb it is tragic.; 3/29/12, 11:47 AM
Roger J. said...: Tank--I rather like the word "jackanape" and miscreant also works well.; 3/29/12, 11:48 AM
Brian Brown said...: Roger J. said...
Jay--heaven forfend that any blog commenter would refer to the police report of responding officers on the ground at the time.

Yeah, and when you do that, tradguy comes along and said it was all a coverup anyway.; 3/29/12, 11:48 AM
Alex said...: Political pressure will no doubt lead to Zimmerman's arrest and conviction. He'll be thrown to the wolves to appease GodZero. That's the tyranny we now live in.; 3/29/12, 11:49 AM
Alex said...: I still want to know who hijacked tradguy's account? This isn't like him.; 3/29/12, 11:49 AM
Brian Brown said...: By the way, this statement:

At some point, Zimmerman ignored the suggestion from a 911 dispatcher that he stop following Martin, left his truck and went to look for Martin.

Has no validity.

It is not a "fact" and is not supported by Zimmerman's statement or the 9-11 transcript.

But given that what garage knows about this incident is really nothing, of course he believes it.; 3/29/12, 11:50 AM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Imagine if the cops demanded proof of citizenship from Zimmerman like they do in Arizona. The liberals would implode.; 3/29/12, 11:51 AM
Roger J. said...: Paraphrasing the mexican bandit in Treasure of the Sierra Madre: "facts? I dont need no stinkin facts"; 3/29/12, 11:51 AM
Alex said...: Liberals believe the narrative above reality. When it comes to this case, ObamaCare or economics. It makes no difference. They exist perpetually in la-la land and tradguy has decided to switch off his brain.; 3/29/12, 11:53 AM
Bender said...: You apparently have zero legal reasoning skills.

This from someone who apparently attended the Verrilli school of legal reasoning.

Police report taken the night of the incident: Officer sees bloody wounds on back of Zimmerman's head and nose. EMTs called and they administer aid to Zimmerman.

Tradguy: Zimmerman is not believable.

Boy passing by sees Martin on top of Zimmerman. Homeowner sees Martin on top of Zimmerman.

Tradguy: Zimmerman is not believable.

There have been recent break-ins in the neighborhood. Someone is seen walking between the houses, rather than the street or sidewalk. Zimmerman does not stop Martin, but calls police and investigates to get further information. Martin is seen on top of Zimmerman in the yard, and Martin's body is in a yard, not the street or sidewalk.

Tradguy: Zimmerman is not believable.
_______________

You should get a job with the Obama Solicitor General's office, Matlock.; 3/29/12, 11:54 AM
Alex said...: I mean look at the Gallup poll Ann cited the other day, 45% believe Zimmerman is guilty without any trial!; 3/29/12, 11:54 AM
Alex said...: Tradguy is basing everything on the notion that some photograph shows Zimmerman with no injuries, as if that alone makes the man a liar.; 3/29/12, 11:55 AM
machine said...: 1) Why doesn't Zimmerman just release his medical records from the night in question to clear a lot of this up? This would go a long way in changing perceptions, no?

2) Standard procedure would be for the Police to take pictures of all purported injuries...why haven't these been released?

3) I would also assume it's SOP to take a blood sample from a shooter (this helps with verification of his story)...why didn't they take a sample?; 3/29/12, 11:55 AM
traditionalguy said...: The Feds will likely try Zimmerman on a Civil Rights Violation charge if Florida keeps hunkering down and fighting outsiders as if the entire black community has no say since they wear hoodies and steal for a living.

The Consitution itself says that a state action cannot aid in depriving a person of LIFE, liberty or property without due process of law.

Zimmerman allowed Trayvon no due process of law before taking his life, and Florida is aiding him in that act.

Of course Zimmerman will not need due process of law since the law has refused to get involved at all. That is exactly what is causing the furor that everyone fears.

Charles Mansion wanted to start a race war, and now Seminole County Florida wants to do their part to get it started.; 3/29/12, 11:56 AM
Alex said...: tradguy - keep digging bro. Keep diggin'.; 3/29/12, 11:57 AM
Brian Brown said...: tionalguy said...
Jay...I would advise against your wasting your time taking the LSAT. You apparently have zero legal reasoning skills.

I'm not the one insisting without a trial we can't know what happened.

You are.

If that is "legal reasoning" then I hope you never had any real clients.; 3/29/12, 11:57 AM
Alex said...: Ok, so Zimmerman got himself in shape over the last 7 years. Is that a crime, to be a lean, mean fighting machine? I mean hell, he could pass for a random Latino gang member any time.; 3/29/12, 11:57 AM
Alex said...: Zimmerman is my hero!; 3/29/12, 11:58 AM
Brian Brown said...: traditionalguy said...

Of course Zimmerman will not need due process of law since the law has refused to get involved at all.

Yes!!

Because unless there is a trial, the law isn't involved!

The police didn't investigate and confer with the Prosector or anything!

Cover up!

Hey, why don't you call them yokels again, you silly cracker?; 3/29/12, 11:59 AM
Brian Brown said...: Charles Mansion wanted to start a race war, and now Seminole County Florida wants to do their part to get it started.

Actually, the ignorant propagandists like you are inflaming racial tensions by deliberately ignoring facts that don't fit the narrative.

You're disgusting.; 3/29/12, 12:00 PM
edutcher said...: Christopher in MA said...

Thank you, edutcher. And believe me, I don't exempt the GOP from my damning. The ones that aren't gutless about this are gun-shy; too terrfied of whooping mountebanks like Sharpton to stand up and say what ought to be said.

The RINOs became what they are after seeing the true Conservatives and Republicans demagogued and Alinskyized for saying the things you said, as Goldwater was when he pointed out certain possible negative outcomes in the '64 Civil Rights Act or the many fiscal Conservatives who, over the past 80 years, warned us of the fiscal train wreck now at hand.

The only reason Conservatism is ascendant and that you have the Tea Party is all they predicted has come to pass and the means to fight against the centralized media is at their command finally.

machine said...

‘Stand Your Ground’ was not designed to protect an aggressor who loses a fight.

This assumes (and we know what happens when someone assumes) Zimmerman was the aggressor and it was just a Saturday night scuffle.

If the account of the injuries is true, Zimmerman may have felt he was fighting for his life.

PS All the trolls are coming back. Axelrod must have raised Condition Red at Kos this morning.; 3/29/12, 12:00 PM
Rialby said...: "Charles Mansion wanted to start a race war"

Are we in the fucking Twilight Zone? A man who was a neighborhood watch captain kills another man who he called the cops on. It's tragedy and, possibly, manslaughter. It's the not the start of a race war. If ANYONE is responsible for starting a "race war", it's the Left and Democrats who are seizing upon this story because they think they can make political hay of it. Get a fucking grip.; 3/29/12, 12:04 PM
Tank said...: traditionalguy said...
The Feds will likely try Zimmerman on a Civil Rights Violation charge if Florida keeps hunkering down and fighting outsiders as if the entire black community has no say since they wear hoodies and steal for a living.

The Consitution itself says that a state action cannot aid in depriving a person of LIFE, liberty or property without due process of law.

Whatever it is that Zimmerman is, he is not "a state action." For God's sakes. Stop digging.; 3/29/12, 12:07 PM
Roger J. said...: TRAD GUY: I was not aware that "due process of law" applied physical confrontations. I would genuinely appreciate your definition of due process of law. Irrespective of this confrontation between two private citizens, how in the world does due process of law obtain? If someone is beating me up I cant respond until the legal system kicks in?; 3/29/12, 12:09 PM
cubanbob said...: Shiloh and garage are typical of the lefty mindset, we got our narrative and we don't care about any facts that don't agree with the narrative. How about letting the police finish their investigation before calling the investigation botched.; 3/29/12, 12:09 PM
traditionalguy said...: Hey guys. I also never knew an accused criminal that could not make up lies faster than I could write them down.

In court perjury is the rule and not the exception. Zimmerman has the extra stress on him of telling the story his father will approve of.

The system will work. Just try the evidence like the police and DAs used to do with no special cut offs from the process for the Zimmermans.

The cover up already went up in smoke when the audio and video tapes were seen nationwide. Don't blame me for telling you what you don't want to hear.; 3/29/12, 12:10 PM
machine said...: "Zimmerman may have felt he was fighting for his life"...

I think you are probably right...but you cannot start something and then claim self defense...

...its bad law...Tallahassee gangs have been using it since it passed...; 3/29/12, 12:12 PM
Matt Sablan said...: "2) Standard procedure would be for the Police to take pictures of all purported injuries...why haven't these been released?"

-- People say this, but no one points to where that is stated. Again, from experience, when I was robbed, fought back and ran away from my attackers -- the police did not take any pictures of the bruises or injuries I had taken.

Do we have anyone from FL who can say what the procedure is supposed to be? It might differ between the states.; 3/29/12, 12:12 PM
Alex said...: throw tradguy in with shiloh and garage for the "clueless" set.; 3/29/12, 12:13 PM
Roger J. said...: oops--previous post re due process should have said, prior to law enforcement involvement I dont see how due process of law applies here.; 3/29/12, 12:13 PM
Roger J. said...: Trad Guy--is not the issue that Mr Z has been charged with nothing? You are presupposing he has been charged.; 3/29/12, 12:16 PM
traditionalguy said...: Hide and watch the Feds. If the State of Florida refuses to arrest and prosecute a killer because his victim is black, that will be called a State Action.

There will be a trial one way or the other because the authorities are not so dumb as to keep this thing suppressed.; 3/29/12, 12:17 PM
machine said...: "letting the police finish their investigation"

They did finish...the lead investigator recommended Manslaughter charges against Zimmerman...and said in an affidavit the day of the shooting that he did not believe Zimmerman's story that Trayvon attacked him and he fired in self-defense.

It's not the cops...its the D.A. and a bad law...; 3/29/12, 12:18 PM
Alex said...: tradguy - funny I don't recall you being so upset with black men murder white women.; 3/29/12, 12:19 PM
Alex said...: CONGRESSWOMAN CAN‘T QUITE REMEMBER NAME OF ’YOUNG WHITE FEMALE’ MURDER VICTIM OF EQUAL CONCERN TO MARTIN CASE; 3/29/12, 12:20 PM
Bender said...: It is sad to watch someone toss all of their credibility, which had previously been earned, right into the toilet.

Maybe this is one of those attempts at being oh-so-cute playing at being stupid to see if others would play along. But enough games.

When someone is going to say things that only a buffoon would say, we'll take their words at face value.; 3/29/12, 12:22 PM
Roger J. said...: Machine--correct me if am wrong, but does not the lead investigator refer the case to the DA, who then, after he or she evaluates the evidence makes the decision to prosecute? Seems to me that falls within the purview of due process.; 3/29/12, 12:23 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: It's not a bad law. It was the bad application of the law in this situation. Why should I have a duty to retreat from an agressor? In my experience the worst thing to do when faced with a threat is to turn your back to it.

Did that once and spent two months waiting for some bones to heal.; 3/29/12, 12:23 PM
Brian Brown said...: machine said...
"letting the police finish their investigation"

They did finish...the lead investigator recommended Manslaughter charges against Zimmerman...and said in an affidavit the day of the shooting that he did not believe Zimmerman's story that Trayvon attacked him and he fired in self-defense.

Um, you left out this part:

it was then Sanford police chief Bill Lee, along with Capt. Robert O'Connor, the investigations supervisor, who made the decision to release George Zimmerman on the night of February 26th, after consulting with State Attorney Norman Wolfinger -- in person.

Which isn't what you said.; 3/29/12, 12:23 PM
Hagar said...: But that is precisely the problem; this case has gotten so much traction because the local D.A. told the cops to sit down and shut up. If the police information had been released immediately, this firestorm never would have got off the ground.

Anyway, I think we can stop arguing now. The media is beginning to back off, so I think they are suspecting they have been had.

Pretty soon, it will not have happened at all.; 3/29/12, 12:24 PM
Brian Brown said...: machine said...

I think you are probably right...but you cannot start something and then claim self defense...

There is no evidence, anywhere, that Zimmerman "started anything"

Are you interested in facts or memes?; 3/29/12, 12:25 PM
Brian Brown said...: raditionalguy said...
Hide and watch the Feds. If the State of Florida refuses to arrest and prosecute a killer because his victim is black,

Yes!

There is no such thing as self defense. Everyone is a "killer" now!

Again, this continued string of your postings is embarrassing.; 3/29/12, 12:26 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: I have to wonder if its even possible Zimmerman could be tried. When the President weighs on on the side of the victim, I think its safe to say an impartial jury is impossible.; 3/29/12, 12:28 PM
Revenant said...: I think you are probably right...but you cannot start something and then claim self defense

Following someone is not "starting something".

Punching someone in the nose? Is.; 3/29/12, 12:28 PM
Brian Brown said...: traditionalguy said...
The system will work. Just try the evidence like the police and DAs used to do with no special cut offs from the process for the Zimmermans.

Right.

Because every shooting, every single one of them, in America goes to trial.

And when it doesn't, we all scream the process was cut off.

Question for you, dummy, what would prompt any police officer or the prosector to "do favors" for Zimmerman?

What would be the motive for that?; 3/29/12, 12:29 PM
Roger J. said...: Even Florida authorities fail to take the case to court, rest assured the Holder DOJ will be involved. And of course, we all know how that will go. There will, I suspect, be some bogus civil rights case--and we all know just how unbiased the US DOJ is.; 3/29/12, 12:29 PM
garage mahal said...: Why should I have a duty to retreat from an agressor?

So Martin should have stood his ground?; 3/29/12, 12:31 PM
Brian Brown said...: The cover up already went up in smoke when the audio and video tapes were seen nationwide

Hysterical.

And I bet you could like lay that out factually too!

What part of the tapes or audio demonstrate something that hurts Zimmerman?

Tell us. I can't wait to see this repsonse.

Though your whole statement is a bit of projection since the police report, and witness statements destory the "He was just a kid dressed in a hoodie and gunned down" meme that you and your ilk have been clinging too so desperately.; 3/29/12, 12:31 PM
Brian Brown said...: garage mahal said...

So Martin should have stood his ground?

Huh?

Since Martin approached Zimmerman, tell us how Zimmerman was the aggressor again, bozo?

Really, can't wait to hear this.; 3/29/12, 12:32 PM
Christopher in MA said...: "When the president weighs in on the side of the victim, I think it's safe to say an impartial jury is impossible."

I suspect you and I are about the same age, HD, so you remember when Nixon ventured the opinion that ol' Chuckles Manson was guilty as sin. The defense screamed for a mistrial, but Bugliosi managed to seat a jury anyway. Were I a lawyer, I'd certainly salt away Little Black Jesus' nonsense under the heading of "prejudicial to my client."

Of course, that was back when Bug was a sane man, not the spittle-flecked Impeachment of George Bush whackjob he's turned into.; 3/29/12, 12:33 PM
Revenant said...: 1) Why doesn't Zimmerman just release his medical records from the night in question to clear a lot of this up? This would go a long way in changing perceptions, no?

I doubt it. People are already calling him a racist murderer without any evidence of racism or intent.

In any event, given that he was treated at the scene and declined a trip to the hospital I doubt there are any medical records.

2) Standard procedure would be for the Police to take pictures of all purported injuries...why haven't these been released?

Because, oddly enough, "trial by public ordeal" is not an official part of our legal system.

3) I would also assume it's SOP to take a blood sample from a shooter (this helps with verification of his story)...why didn't they take a sample?

Maybe your assumption is wrong? Nah, couldn't be. Anyway, go ahead and provide a supporting link for your claim that no sample was taken.; 3/29/12, 12:34 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: If Zimmerman was threatening him, yes.

My opinion is Zimmerman should have called the cops and let it go at that.; 3/29/12, 12:35 PM
Brian Brown said...: When is machine going to start demanding to see the toxicology report on Martin?; 3/29/12, 12:35 PM
I Callahan said...: So Martin should have stood his ground?

Garage, I know you WANT to believe otherwise, but from what everyone knows now, there is not ONE SHRED of evidence that Zimmerman was the aggressor. Not one.

You've become a hologram of yourself.; 3/29/12, 12:35 PM
traditionalguy said...: @ Alex... With respect for your comments, the idea that Zimmerman has been tried by taking his statement is the defect. Everybody lies to the police.

The idea that Trayvon was a burglar doing the neighborhood has never been proved by any evidence.

The tapes of Zimmerman in hot pursuit of Martin while dressed in civilian clothes, that strangely remained neat and blood free when the police drove up to take him in, are powerful evidence that requires arrest according to the investigator and trial if indicted.

Cutting Robert Zimmerman's son lose that night without doing any of that but chosing to believe Zimmerman, (not by the investigator who interrogated him but only by the DA,) followed by slandering the dead teenager smells wrong. Use your nose.; 3/29/12, 12:37 PM
garage mahal said...: Garage, I know you WANT to believe otherwise, but from what everyone knows now, there is not ONE SHRED of evidence that Zimmerman was the aggressor. Not one.

We know for a fact Zimmerman was following Martin.

Could Martin have shot Zimmerman for feeling threatened because someone was following him?; 3/29/12, 12:39 PM
I Callahan said...: Everybody lies to the police.

So what is your solution? Everyone who fires a gun at anyone gets arrested? Under every circumstance? Because you're guilty until proven innocent?

You'll succeed in turning the country's legal system on it's head. Sad that someone with some intelligence is letting his emotions get the best of him.; 3/29/12, 12:40 PM
Roger J. said...: Please--IMNAL but isnt the procedure to refer the case to the district atty and the district atty makes the determination to empanel a grand jury? And does not the grand jury decide to send the case to trial?

If I am wrong on this, please let me know

this rudimentary analysis overlooks the political gains accruing from the DOJ investigation, but even then, does not the DOJ have to empanel a grand jury as well?

I have no idea of the procedural steps required and would love to have someone help me out here.; 3/29/12, 12:41 PM
Brian Brown said...: Could Martin have shot Zimmerman for feeling threatened because someone was following him?

NO.

But your stupid questions demonstrate and ignorance of the law that would keep a person with a brain from commenting.; 3/29/12, 12:42 PM
Brian Brown said...: Everybody lies to the police.

And yet if Martin were alive and able to give a statement to the police, you'd be here waving that around as evidence.

Isn't it funny how that works?; 3/29/12, 12:43 PM
Brian Brown said...: he tapes of Zimmerman in hot pursuit of Martin while dressed in civilian clothes,

The 9-11 audio demonstrates no such thing.

Liar.

that strangely remained neat and blood free when the police drove up to take him in

You mean except for the police report, right?

You do understand Zimmerman changed clothes, right?

Why do you type lie after lie?; 3/29/12, 12:45 PM
traditionalguy said...: Jay...Shootings in America where no one loves the victim enough to care are covered up all of the time.

But Zimmerman killed the wrong teenager. Martin was likable enough for his father , his girl friend and my guess is some one inside the police department who knew this smelled wrong to get the tapes and take them to the Media.

Maybe deep throat was a fellow skittles lover who wore a hoodie in secret too.; 3/29/12, 12:45 PM
Brian Brown said...: Cutting Robert Zimmerman's son lose that night without doing any of that but chosing to believe Zimmerman, (not by the investigator who interrogated him but only by the DA,)

Um, it was Sanford police chief Bill Lee, along with Capt. Robert O'Connor, the investigations supervisor, who made the decision to release George Zimmerman on the night of February 26th, after consulting with State Attorney Norman Wolfinger -- in person.

Are you going to accept any fact that doesn't fit your narrative, you silly race hustler?; 3/29/12, 12:46 PM
machine said...: Roger, you are correct...it wasn't a cop decision, it was a D.A. decision...

..."demanding to see the toxicology report on Martin" Martin didn't shoot anyone. Cops take blood samples from shooters so they can better evaluate their version of events...is this not a good idea?; 3/29/12, 12:46 PM
Roger J. said...: "everyone lies to the police..." you know this how?; 3/29/12, 12:46 PM
Brian Brown said...: ditionalguy said...
Jay...Shootings in America where no one loves the victim enough to care are covered up all of the time.

Bullshit.

Prove it.; 3/29/12, 12:46 PM
I Callahan said...: We know for a fact Zimmerman was following Martin.

That doesn't make him an agressor.

Could Martin have shot Zimmerman for feeling threatened because someone was following him?

No. However, if Zimmerman HAD jumped Martin, and Martin shot and killed him, then it would be a justifiable shoot.

Let me read something into your points: you insinuate that Martin could protect himself from someone merely following him, yet when evidence points that the shoe is on the other foot and Martin really IS the agressor, you don't think Zimmerman should have protected himself.

The mental contortions you have to get yourself to go through must be exhausting.; 3/29/12, 12:47 PM
Brian Brown said...: machine said...

..."demanding to see the toxicology report on Martin" Martin didn't shoot anyone.

Um, so?

He attacked and punched someone and banged their head off the sidewalk.

Duh.; 3/29/12, 12:47 PM
Matt Sablan said...: "Could Martin have shot Zimmerman for feeling threatened because someone was following him?"

-- No. If Zimmerman pinned him to the ground and began beating him, we'd have a different story. Please study justifiable use of force.; 3/29/12, 12:48 PM
Roger J. said...: Machine--thanks--and I believe tox reports on both alleged perps and victims are an important part of discovery. So have no problem with tox reports.; 3/29/12, 12:49 PM
Brian Brown said...: my guess is some one inside the police department who knew this smelled wrong to get the tapes and take them to the Media

Dipstick:
What part of the tapes or audio demonstrate something that hurts Zimmerman?

Note: this is the point where you come up with another lie...; 3/29/12, 12:49 PM
I Callahan said...: Shootings in America where no one loves the victim enough to care are covered up all of the time.

And you have knowledge of this, exactly, how?; 3/29/12, 12:49 PM
Revenant said...: The tapes of Zimmerman in hot pursuit of Martin while dressed in civilian clothes, that strangely remained neat and blood free when the police drove up to take him in, are powerful evidence

Which is pretty surprising, considering that you just made all of that up.; 3/29/12, 12:50 PM
Brian Brown said...: while dressed in civilian clothes, that strangely remained neat and blood free when the police drove up to take him in, are powerful evidence

I like the "civilian clothes" adjective as if it is even relevant.

But the police report indicates that Zimmerman's back was "wet and covered in grass"

So neat.; 3/29/12, 12:53 PM
garage mahal said...: Jay...
He attacked and punched someone and banged their head off the sidewalk

What part of the tapes or audio demonstrate something that hurts Zimmerman?

Somebody inside the SPD leaked the video. There was nothing to indicate any of that happened to Zimmerman from those tapes. Certainly no broken nose as his father claimed. He's lying.; 3/29/12, 12:57 PM
Brian Brown said...: "When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting.

I like how in garage's mind Martin should have 'stood his ground'

Or something.

OH, and that witness is lying to the police, right tradguy?

Or, when he gets to court he'll continue the lie because In court perjury is the rule and not the exception right?

How bizarre to continue to call for a trial when you think everyone is lying.; 3/29/12, 12:58 PM
Matt Sablan said...: "You do understand Zimmerman changed clothes, right?"

-- I don't remember reading that anywhere. But, it would answer questions about the tape. Is it in the police report?; 3/29/12, 12:58 PM
edutcher said...: machine said...

Zimmerman may have felt he was fighting for his life

I think you are probably right...but you cannot start something and then claim self defense...

He started it, how?

By observing a suspicious person?

By calling the cops?

If he was jumped, and it looks that way, he started nothing; he just defended himself.

I can't help wondering how bad the Democrats' internal polling must be that they have their people embarrassing themselves with all these claims so easily knocked down.; 3/29/12, 12:58 PM
Brian Brown said...: There was nothing to indicate any of that happened to Zimmerman from those tapes.

Um, Zimmerman was treatd by a paramedic PRIOR to that tape.

You can grasp what that means, right?

Even you, in your abject silliness understands what that means?; 3/29/12, 12:59 PM
garage mahal said...: Most delicious part, concerning curious reporters "Law enforcement officials will not hesitate to make an arrest for stalking"; 3/29/12, 1:00 PM
damikesc said...: The Feds will likely try Zimmerman on a Civil Rights Violation charge if Florida keeps hunkering down and fighting outsiders as if the entire black community has no say

So, they should press charges based on what a group of people want? Even if the evidence isn't there, just do it anyway?

But Zimmerman killed the wrong teenager. Martin was likable enough for his father , his girl friend and my guess is some one inside the police department who knew this smelled wrong to get the tapes and take them to the Media.

His parents and his girlfriend liked him? That isn't exactly evidence of a lot.

Was it a murder? Maybe.

But, man, your argument here is terrible.

..its bad law...Tallahassee gangs have been using it since it passed...

Shall we go into the loathesome things done with the protection of free speech? Let's do away with that as well, huh?; 3/29/12, 1:01 PM
damikesc said...: Most delicious part, concerning curious reporters "Law enforcement officials will not hesitate to make an arrest for stalking"

Following somebody is now stalking?

Man, my neighbors stalk me constantly. Sure, they ALSO go for walks, but man, cannot take any chances.

Thanks reporters.; 3/29/12, 1:02 PM
Nathan Alexander said...: Must read:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/294779/10-things-we-ve-learned-trayvon-martin-tragedy-victor-davis-hanson#more
"10 things we've learned"; 3/29/12, 1:02 PM
garage mahal said...: Um, Zimmerman was treatd by a paramedic PRIOR to that tape.

What happened to his broken nose? That doesn't heal in a few hours. They just wiped his bald head a little, and the cuts and abrasions from the sidewalk just went away? C'mon. I don't know exactly what happened, but there is more than one person lying about this.; 3/29/12, 1:03 PM
damikesc said...: The tapes of Zimmerman in hot pursuit of Martin while dressed in civilian clothes

...given that he's not a cop nor in the military that we're aware of --- what OTHER kind of clothes except "civilian" was he supposed to be in?

If he was naked, would that be less suspicious?

With the weakness of the "Zimmerman was a murderer argument", it's getting increasingly difficult to actually buy what they're selling.; 3/29/12, 1:05 PM
damikesc said...: What happened to his broken nose? That doesn't heal in a few hours.

I broke my nose and the swelling was minimal until 2 or so days later. Eyes didn't get blackened either.

I don't know exactly what happened, but there is more than one person lying about this.

I was unaware Zimmerman made any comments to the press to date.; 3/29/12, 1:07 PM
Brian Brown said...: garage mahal said...
Most delicious part, concerning curious reporters "Law enforcement officials will not hesitate to make an arrest for stalking"

Huh?

Do you understand stalking has a legal definition and it isn't seeing someone suspicious and calling 9-11?

Apparently not.; 3/29/12, 1:07 PM
Curious George said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/29/12, 1:09 PM
Brian Brown said...: I don't remember reading that anywhere. But, it would answer questions about the tape. Is it in the police report?

I've read various assertions that Zimmerman changed clothes.

I can't find a news article confirming, so I'll assume it not to be true since he had a red jacket on at the scene and one in the video tape.; 3/29/12, 1:10 PM
garage mahal said...: I broke my nose and the swelling was minimal until 2 or so days later

The surveillance video was timestamped 35 minutes after Zimmerman shot Martin. He's a miraculously quick healer.; 3/29/12, 1:17 PM
Matt Sablan said...: That video isn't really that good; if he was cleaned up and the bleeding stopped, his nose may not look distorted from that far away, etc.

I admit; that video increases my suspicion that things weren't the same as Zimmerman said, but there are two witnesses saying he was pinned and being beaten. Maybe it was a small break and in the heat of being beaten he thought he was getting it worse than he did? I dunno, but the video alone is only enough to murky the issue more, not prove it one way or the other.

It certainly gives Zimmerman supporters something to consider though.; 3/29/12, 1:20 PM