The Wisconsin protests didn’t defend American workers’ right to bargain for their fair share of company profits, as traditional union protests have. They defended government employees’ right to negotiate with elected officials over the division of taxpayer dollars — a recipe for profligacy that even liberal icons like Franklin Roosevelt and the A.F.L.-C.I.O.’s George Meany once opposed....
Whatever your politics, there’s arguably more to admire in the ragtag theatricality of Occupy Wall Street than in that sort of self-righteous defense of the status quo. Even if it has failed to embrace plausible solutions, O.W.S. at least picked a deserving target — what National Review’s Reihan Salam describes as the “moral rupture” created by Wall Street’s and Washington’s betrayal of the public trust.
৪ ডিসেম্বর, ২০১১
The Wisconsin protesters "are exactly the people that the O.W.S. crowd should not learn from..."
"... if they aspire to appeal to a wider audience than left-wing activists usually reach," writes Ross Douthat in the NYT. They represent "the decadent left, which fights for narrow interest groups rather than for the public as a whole."
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As far as I can tell from the wildly varying comments coming from OWS, they aren't protesting the "moral rupture", they're protesting that they didn't get enough of the resulting goodies.
WV: antstst. Antistatist! What OWS isnt.
The comment section over at Pravda is pretty hysterical.
Meanwhile, the OWS death, rape and arrest numbers continue to climb.
Police say a man who displayed an antI-Occupy Seattle sign near Seattle Central Community College was beaten on Friday.
The 42-year-old man stood just north of the Occupy camp holding a sign that read “Occupy Somewhere Else, Not My School,” according to police.
At roughly 5:30 p.m., three to five men who disagreed with the sign walked over to the man and made their feelings known.
The victim told police the men began taking verbal jabs at him and at one point used a dog to intimidate him.
At some point during the argument, police say one of the men punched the victim in the side of the head.
After the attack, the victim said all of them men ran into the Occupy camp.
So yes, go ahead and "admire the ragtag theatricality of Occupy Wall Street".
There are deaths, rapes, and arrests among members of the armed services all the time. Do the actions of those individuals also reflect on the entire group?
O.W.S. at least picked a deserving target — what National Review’s Reihan Salam describes as the “moral rupture” created by Wall Street’s and Washington’s betrayal of the public trust
Interesting phrasing, especially since the founders of the OWS movement have as their explicitly stated end goal the destruction of capitalism.
they aren't protesting the "moral rupture", they're protesting that they didn't get enough of the resulting goodies
Agree, robin. I picture kids too lazy and spoiled to pick up the pinata candy after the "rupture".
purplepenquin said...
There are deaths, rapes, and arrests among members of the armed services all the time. Do the actions of those individuals also reflect on the entire group?
Um, no.
But it is comical for you to pretend this is some sort of "analogy"
I see two groups of lazy self entitled fucks. Old... and Young... Both stupid.
There are deaths, rapes, and arrests among members of the armed services all the time. Do the actions of those individuals also reflect on the entire group?
No, which is why this group polices itself and deals very harshly with the rapists and murderers it finds. It used to be (I don't know if it is now) that incest and adultery were court-martialable offenses. The military does not tolerate illegal activity or activity that breaks down unit cohesion.
No, which is why this group polices itself and deals very harshly with the rapists and murderers it finds.
Yeah I remember the posting about the girl getting raped and how the ows crowd shone flashlights in his eyes. You guys are fucking tough.
Love that phrase, "the decadent left".
The Occupaiers are (Godwin alert) Godzero's SA, but it's failing because their main message is, "Gimme". They want to take from people who've earned what they have.
The real issue is that the Occupation is about redistribution. This is what differentiates them from the Tea Partiers.
Interestingly, the Establishment Media's tried to portray the Occupation as crusaders and the Tea Partiers as racist nuts, but the Internet and talk radio beat them both times. Paradigm shift in the works, maybe?
I see the two protest groups as having opposing viewpoints.
The occutard's goal is the destruction of capitalism....a Marxist utopia.
The 'This is what demcracy looks like' drum banger's goal is mob rule, and the mob doesn't want to share their pie.
The sad fact is that the OWS message is nothing more than Get The Rich. A further sad fact is that that message, playing as it does to those two constants of the human heart, envy and jealousy, will always find a large and receptive audience.
I never question the sincerity of those who demand more money and perks. The Wisconsin people were sincere. I'm not quite sure what the OWS crowd is all about. They seem to have more poses than positions.
The military does not tolerate illegal activity or activity that breaks down unit cohesion.
Unless prosecuting such cases would lead to a break down of unit cohesion, of course.
I'm saying that as someone who served in two different branches of the Armed Forces. I saw quite a few things get covered up while in the Army and the Navy...mostly small stuff, but also a couple bigger things. My good pal who was in the Marines had his act of public masturbation (he say he was drunk and doesn't remember whipping it out) just swept under the carpet 'cause his CO didn't want the Jarheads to look bad.
And yes, I understand that your personal observations while in the service may be different. I'm just sharing what I've experienced/saw...
@ Purple:
You might - might have an argument if not for the per capita aspect of the crime within the two groups.
The military is a vast, complex organization of over 3 million active and reserve personnel, and yet it has a level of crime below the national average.
Crime at OWS, OTOH, is much more reflective on the movement as a whole on a per capita basis.
yet it has a level of reported crime below the national average.
Fix'd that for ya, 'cause a lot of stuff goes unreported in the military. And when we do hear about it, oftentimes it is years after the fact. For example, we're just now getting more information about the gang-rapes that occurred during Desert Storm.
Don't get me wrong, I ain't saying the military is a bunch of criminal thugs. Rather I disagree with those who are using the actions of some individual protesters in order to paint the picture that the entire group is a bunch of rapists, public masturbaters, and killers.
Rule #1 in a debate: You have to convence your opponent that you are on his/her sides, and if they see things your way, your opponent will come out ahead.
Screaming "Walker = Hitler" doesn't make me think that my opponent has my best interests in mind.
I think their error is in the critical "public as a whole" as opposed to "public as a hole" distinction.
But to the extent that the movement briefly captured the public’s imagination, it was because it seemed to be doing what a decent left would exist to do: criticizing entrenched power, championing the common good and speaking for the many rather than the few.
The union rallies and the Keystone demonstrations, by contrast, represented what you might call the decadent left, which fights for narrow interest groups rather than for the public as a whole.
Eh, maybe not so much...
Some Occupy L.A. arrestees feel traumatized, might seek therapy (Via Instapundit)
Most of the roughly 300 Occupy L.A. protesters were released from jail by Friday evening, with some immediately speaking out on the police raid that cleared their camp.
One speaker suggested that some of those arrested might need therapy. Several said they felt traumatized after witnessing police use nonlethal force and being forced to wait for hours in zip-tie handcuffs. Some displayed cuts on their wrists from the handcuffs. Others complained that they were forced to urinate in bags on the bus as they were transported to jails.
One speaker urged others to document any complaints. "Make note of every single violation of human rights," she told those assembled.
@ Purple:
Fix'd that for ya, 'cause a lot of stuff goes unreported in the military. And when we do hear about it, oftentimes it is years after the fact.
But, the same is true in the general population to an even greater extent. The amount of crime that goes unreported nationwide is staggering.
purplepenquin said...
There are deaths, rapes, and arrests among members of the armed services all the time. Do the actions of those individuals also reflect on the entire group?
Oh Giggle:
Police received an anonymous call Thursday reporting the sex assault at the Occupy Hartford site in Turning Point Park on Broad Street.
Investigating officers located the victim, a woman who told them a man aggressively kissed her neck and groped her breasts against her wishes. Several others at the campsite intervened and the suspect ran off, she told police.
When asked why no one from Occupy Hartford, including the victim, reported the sex assault to police, they told officers they did not want to draw any negative attention to their cause.
We know there is corruption in the private sector, including: the financial sector, non-profits (e.g. civil rights businesses), unions, lawyers, and pseudo-public businesses Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. We also know that there is corruption of authoritarian interests. The former represents corruption in the exception, while the latter which is funded through involuntary exploitation represents fundamental corruption.
What we do not know is the dynamic which exists between authoritarian and private interests. We do not know the dynamic which exists between domestic and foreign interests, including sovereigns. We know for a fact that authoritarian interests were in some instances instigators of corruption in the private sector. We also know that they were conspirators. We do not know where the corruption originated and if authoritarian interests were always instigators or eventual conspirators.
The "occupy" (a poorly chosen reference) movement is both right and wrong. Their priorities are wrong as they protest fraudulent exploitation while seemingly embracing involuntary exploitation.
Dreams of physical, material, and ego gratification, principally through redistributive and retributive change, but also through fraudulent exploitation, are principal corruptive influences for individuals and society.
That said, we need to reclaim nationwide economic development for the benefit of all Americans. The alternative is to permit further exploitation and abuse of the democratic process in pursuit of instant gratification.
Neither a tyranny of the majority nor tyranny of a minority are desirable, and both are incapable of preserving individual dignity and promote a progressive reduction of liberty.
The root of our problems is that there is a large minority of people who have embraced fraudulent exploitation; but, even worse, there is a large minority of people who have embraced progressive involuntary exploitation. Both are redistribution schemes and both are causal contributors to progressive corruption of individuals and society.
It is past time to recognize the principal principle, individual dignity, and reject a recall of a selective history, science, and reality. We will not recognize a reasonable compromise by replaying the historical cycles of creation and destruction.
"The Wisconsin protests didn’t defend American workers’ right to bargain for their fair share of company profits, as traditional union protests have. " Interesting sentence. What is their fair share? More than what they agreed to work for? Does this worker bring to the table special skills that helped the company achieve these profits, or was he lucky enough to work for a successful company? How about a year where there are no profits? Will there be a corresponding cut in pay? How about the way the automotive and steel working unions bargain? Say Ford has a really good year but GM and Chrysler do not. Ford workers demand a raise to share in the profits. Ford gives it to them. Then the workers at GM and Chrysler demand the same raise. Even though their company has no profit to share in. How to resolve that?
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