Althouse: "I am completely innocent."

১১ ডিসেম্বর, ২০১১

"I am completely innocent."

Ryan Braun.

৫৮টি মন্তব্য:

kjbe বলেছেন...: Two years ago I bought my nephew Braun's rookie card for Christmas. This year his jersey. *sigh*; ১১/১২/১১, ৯:১৩ PM
SteveR বলেছেন...: So were Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds.; ১১/১২/১১, ৯:১৬ PM
Automatic_Wing বলেছেন...: And Floyd Landis. Talk about a guy who protested too much!; ১১/১২/১১, ৯:২১ PM
Steve M. Galbraith বলেছেন...: Logically, rationally it doesn't make sense that he would use PEDs.

He came into the league when drug testing was introduced and the steroid stain still lingered; he just earlier signed a $100 million plus contract; he wasn't injured; he was at the top of his career - one of the stars of baseball - and not at the end of it.

Why the need to juice up further? He was attaining all of his goals.

But humans aren't rational.

So, the jury is still out.; ১১/১২/১১, ৯:২৬ PM
MadisonMan বলেছেন...: I did read somewhere that the levels of the PEDs weren't just high in his sample, they were super astronomically high.

We'll see.; ১১/১২/১১, ৯:৩০ PM
avwh বলেছেন...: He tested off the charts for artificial testosterone.

Hard to get that result naturally.; ১১/১২/১১, ৯:৩৭ PM
Automatic_Wing বলেছেন...: এই মন্তব্যটি লেখক দ্বারা সরানো হয়েছে।; ১১/১২/১১, ৯:৪০ PM
Automatic_Wing বলেছেন...: They didn't actually find PEDs in his sample, they found abnormal testosterone ratios (a PED marker) and...synthetic testosterone. Gonna be tough to 'splain all that away.

Oh, and MLB has never reversed a drug suspension on appeal.; ১১/১২/১১, ৯:৪১ PM
Ralph L বলেছেন...: I wonder if the Brewers decided he wasn't worth $20 million a year and dosed him.; ১১/১২/১১, ৯:৫১ PM
Patrick বলেছেন...: Sports heroes aren't role models, or really even heroes. They're just guys who will let you (or your son) down if you believe that they're good guys. Mantle, Favre, Braun, just a few that pop to mind. Even Aaron Rodgers and Tim Tebow will show themselves to be jerks at some point. I hope not, but I quit believing this crap. I tell my sons to look at themselves and their neighbors who go to work every day, and take care of their families. All the rest is crap. I will never buy my kids a jersey. Ever.; ১১/১২/১১, ১০:১৭ PM
KCFleming বলেছেন...: He's got balls.

Well, synthetic ones, anyways.; ১১/১২/১১, ১০:২৫ PM
Henry বলেছেন...: There's a certain irony in the timing. On Saturday Manny Ramirez was reinstated. He can now sign with any team and begin serving a 50 games suspension at the start of the 2012 season.

There are players who seem to have a motive for using PEDs: Young players seeking any way to boost performance to a major league level (numerous violators of the MLB drug testing policy are minor leaguers); older players seeking to stay in the game or return from injury (Andy Pettitte); egocentric flakes who think they can't get caught (Bonds, Clemens, Manny).

Braun doesn't seem to fit any of those profiles. But that doesn't mean anything.; ১১/১২/১১, ১০:২৭ PM
Wally Kalbacken বলেছেন...: He tested off the charts for artificial testosterone.

Hard to get that result naturally.

What do you mean artificial testosterone? They create it synthetically, but I (would) assume if it is called testosterone, it is identical to naturally produced testosterone, structurally. This sounds like the BGH arguments in that regard.

This story has been out there for ~36 hours. I find it hard to believe that the news media covering this only express that he tested positive for PED's, without breaking down a roster of possible suspected PED's that would trigger a result. It can't be an infinite list.

Inquiring minds gotsta know!; ১১/১২/১১, ১০:২৮ PM
rcommal বলেছেন...: Perhaps if fans were to adjust their expectations, sports-teams owners would adjust theirs, coaches would adjust theirs, teams would adjust theirs, players would adjust their and so on, dripping down into the culture and etc.

Call it drip-down sportsmanship.; ১১/১২/১১, ১০:৩৩ PM
KCFleming বলেছেন...: "Call it drip-down sportsmanship."

Kegel exercises might help.; ১১/১২/১১, ১০:৩৬ PM
rcommal বলেছেন...: Don't think so, Pogo. The issue isn't one of feminization here, after all.; ১১/১২/১১, ১০:৩৯ PM
KCFleming বলেছেন...: Bitte im sitzen pinkeln!; ১১/১২/১১, ১০:৪২ PM
Chuck66 বলেছেন...: If he did this and get suspended for 50 games, is there any recourse for the Brewers to get some of their money back? They are paying him a lot of money to play.; ১১/১২/১১, ১০:৫৩ PM
rcommal বলেছেন...: Bitte im sitzen pinkeln!

Hey, no problem, stander!; ১১/১২/১১, ১১:০১ PM
David বলেছেন...: The guilt by accusation crowd is in full cry again at Althouse blog.

Would not want this crowd on my jury as a defendant.; ১১/১২/১১, ১১:০৭ PM
rcommal বলেছেন...: The guilt by accusation crowd is in full cry again at Althouse blog.

Or maybe not.

Would not want this crowd on my jury as a defendant.

Or maybe would.; ১১/১২/১১, ১১:১৪ PM
Chip Ahoy বলেছেন...: I'm not fully crying.; ১২/১২/১১, ১:২৫ AM
Carnifex বলেছেন...: Several days ago, in an open thread I went on a rant about the use of military drone spy planes on US citizens. As usual the chipping away of our rights stirred not a ripple in this pond of "Nothing to see here. Move along" banality of "independent" thinkers.

Yesterday comes the announcement of the arrest of 3 suspects in North Dakota following the use of said spy planes supplied by HSA.

Not a word about the posse commitatus act. No one can take your rights, you just surrender them one inch at a time.

I bring this to THIS thread because of the use of "I'm innocent" in this threads title, and because of the presumption of innocence for a beloved sports figure, but not for just some guys in the backwoods. Your bigotry is showing.

Its easy to presume someone you like as innocent. Much harder from someone you don't, but they deserve the same assumption. In fact, it's pretty much the basis of our judicial system.

Our judicial system starts with the police. They are the first judge and jury the public faces. But the police are bound by the acts of politicians whoring themselves out for the next election, and they see no further than the start of the next term.

Our Federal Government has already set the policy that they can execute any American citizen, anywhere in the world, on just the say so of the President, or a commission appointed by the same. Anyone with a modicum of sense would be worried about such a decision.

You have been warned. Now think.; ১২/১২/১১, ৫:৫৩ AM
edutcher বলেছেন...: At least he didn't molest somebody.

Or is that a coach only thing?; ১২/১২/১১, ৬:০২ AM
Toad Trend বলেছেন...: As long as there is competition and big money at stake, there will always be someone trying to get an edge.

Where there is little or no competition, well, then you will see the throngs of slackers taking what they can get.

Vive' le difference.; ১২/১২/১১, ৬:৫০ AM
Psychedelic George বলেছেন...: I recently watched part of the 1968 movie "Paper Lion." It's the story of author George Plimpton's experience training with and briefly playing for the Detroit Lions.

In one scene at the start of summer training camp, the coach recites to the players the fines for breaking certain rules---Late for a meal...$100 ...Late for a bus....$200...Late for practice...$200...Woman in your room...$500. ("She'd better be worth it," the coach jokes.)

The clean-cut rookies, one by one, each have to stand on their dining room chairs and sing their school's fight song.

It would surprise me if there was not rule-breaking use of pain-killers or other drugs back then, but something has been lost.; ১২/১২/১১, ৬:৫৪ AM
Wince বলেছেন...: "I am completely innocent."

Moe: Where's your vice?

Curly: Vice? I have no vice, I'm as pure as a driven snow!

Moe: But you're driftin'.; ১২/১২/১১, ৭:১৫ AM
kjbe বলেছেন...: Patrick, everyone will let us down, at some point, even your neighbors. It's a decent lesson to remember to have fun, but not take things quite so seriously or so personally. Oh, and BTW, our daughters are also susceptible.; ১২/১২/১১, ৭:৩৭ AM
KCFleming বলেছেন...: Carnifex,
I am gloomier than you about the future.

I can't be outraged continuously, though. Gotta laugh at the absurdity once in awhile.; ১২/১২/১১, ৭:৫১ AM
ndspinelli বলেছেন...: There's a 99% chance he used synthetic testosterone. False positives are increasingly rare.

It never ceases to amaze me when athletes, politicians, and other people we all know don't just say "I was wrong." It seems that these people w/ apparently strong egos don't have the true self esteem to admit they're human. People are forgiving when someone gives a heartfelt "I'm sorry." I just don't understand it.; ১২/১২/১১, ৭:৫৪ AM
ndspinelli বলেছেন...: David, Your attorney could just strike us as jurors. And, w/ whom is Braun associating w/ on this?; ১২/১২/১১, ৭:৫৭ AM
ndspinelli বলেছেন...: EDH, our professor hates the Stooges. I would be cautious about referring to them. It might be a deleteable offense.; ১২/১২/১১, ৭:৫৯ AM
ndspinelli বলেছেন...: Just had a double espresso. Or, "expresso" as so many Cheeseheads call it. Am I cluttering?; ১২/১২/১১, ৮:০০ AM
caplight বলেছেন...: Speaking of jury duty though I have never been called in my entire life do I assume ministers are not desirable to prosecutors because they assume we are all bleeding hearts?; ১২/১২/১১, ৮:১৫ AM
caplight বলেছেন...: The Three Stooges or just stooges in general?

ndspinelli-my friends daughter works for an investigative agency and got her PI license. I talked to her few months ago when I needed a favor. Sounds like she spends most of her time on the computer searching court records and data bases.; ১২/১২/১১, ৮:২২ AM
Joe Schmoe বলেছেন...: It is increasingly difficult to fail this test and be innocent. The 'chain of custody' is very tight (someone from MLB watched Ryan Braun pee into multiple vials, and then the vials were taken to a lab with all sorts of safeguards for identification). If one test yields a positive, other samples are tested to confirm/deny. Also, the MLB standards aren't as broad as the Olympic standards, so it's not like he's testing positive for Claritin of cough syrup.

And yes; he can try to proclaim his innocence. He's got the MLB players' union at his back, and they will fight this tooth and nail. But the union fought stricter drug policies in the last collective bargaining agreement. I suspect MLB wouldn't go public with this unless 100% certain. They don't want to pee in their own pool, so to speak.

It doesn't look good for him. Not sure if he's tested positive before; if so, this will mean a lengthy suspension. I feel bad for Brewers fans. They were getting something going again, now Fielder's leaving, and Braun could be out 50 games.; ১২/১২/১১, ৮:২৮ AM
Joe Schmoe বলেছেন...: Carnifex, I hear what you're saying, but this is different. What he did is not illegal. It's against the rules collectively bargained between his union and Major League Baseball. Presumed innocence doesn't apply here. He failed the test; it's like he's already been found guilty. Now all he can do is go through the appeal process.

Regarding punishment by the Brewers, it depends on what's in his contract. There typically are morals clauses, and things not to hurt the integrity of the game, so they may be able to nullify his contract there. I suspect that now there is more specific language for PEDs. His discipline from the team (loss of pay, nullification of contract) will depend on that. If he's suspended for 50 games, that is w/o pay.; ১২/১২/১১, ৮:৩৩ AM
Wince বলেছেন...: "Who, me? I resemble that remark."

ndspinelli said...
EDH, our professor hates the Stooges. I would be cautious about referring to them. It might be a deleteable offense.

I disagree. The Stooges have earned me at least one Althouse tag and video embed.; ১২/১২/১১, ৮:৩৫ AM
Triangle Man বলেছেন...: I am completely innocent.

Hm, Kafka or Dostoyevsky to judge this case?; ১২/১২/১১, ৮:৫০ AM
ndspinelli বলেছেন...: Well then EDH, she then just hated the Stooges when I used them as an example on Bloody Sunday. Of course, that was a bloody day..c'est la guerre!; ১২/১২/১১, ৮:৫১ AM
ndspinelli বলেছেন...: caplight, That's where rookies start out, reading court records, getting police reports, etc. It is very edifying. I still do it. The more you become familiar w/ court files the quicker you can breeze through them. However, it sounds like she's not going to courthouses. That's a mistake by her supervisor. You use the online for identifying cases. But, you have to go read the court files..that's where the meat is.

When I trained a people back when I had employees that's what I had them do, but I still did some also. I couldn't bill the rookies time verbatim because it just took them too much time. plus, I like reading court files. I've read thousands.

If your friend's daughter is sharp, she has an advantage. People don't suspect women when they're doing undercover work, and witneses generally tend to open up to them better than w/ men.

Finally, good chance you would get struck @ a criminal trial, but not always. For a civil case, you would fall in w/ most other professionals and a good candidate.; ১২/১২/১১, ৯:০৪ AM
Brian Brown বলেছেন...: I am completely innocent

*GIGGLE*

We believe you!

Really, we do!; ১২/১২/১১, ৯:০৮ AM
Curious George বলেছেন...: Carnifex said...
Several days ago, in an open thread I went on a rant about the use of military drone spy planes on US citizens. As usual the chipping away of our rights stirred not a ripple in this pond of "Nothing to see here. Move along" banality of "independent" thinkers.

Yesterday comes the announcement of the arrest of 3 suspects in North Dakota following the use of said spy planes supplied by HSA.

Not a word about the posse commitatus act. No one can take your rights, you just surrender them one inch at a time."

Ok, I looked all this up and the use of the "spy plane" was soly to determine where on a vast property the three suspects were, and to see if they were currently armed. This was done only after the local cop had been shot at while exercising a valid search warrant regarding cattle theft.

Also posse commitatus act only is regard to the use of the Army or Air Force. It says so right in the Act. These drones were owned by the U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

Yawn.; ১২/১২/১১, ৯:১৯ AM
Joe Schmoe বলেছেন...: About the only way he could be innocent is if someone stepped forward, with verifiable evidence, and admitted that they gave Braun synthetic testosterone w/o him knowing it. Possible, but not probable.; ১২/১২/১১, ৯:৪৬ AM
Patrick বলেছেন...: Kit, you're right, everyone will let us down eventually. The difference between "neighbors" and the "stars" is that "neighbors" don't pretend they are something they're not. People (including me) make mistakes, sometimes pretty big ones. But the athletes make a fair amount of money by pretending to be "good guys." People at that level never are.

And yes, daughters certainly are susceptible, it's just that I have sons, and that's what I was thinking about.; ১২/১২/১১, ৯:৫২ AM
Tim বলেছেন...: SteveR said...

"So were Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds."

And Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds smile to themselves, knowing the pointed finger of accusation (and conviction, in Bonds' case) is becoming a paint brush.

And Matt Kemp now knows he was robbed of the MVP.; ১২/১২/১১, ১০:০৭ AM
David বলেছেন...: I did not realize we had so many experts on drug testing and scientific evidence here at Althouse. These people must know what they are talking about, right? They are so good that they can give expert testimony based on a brief news article without reading any of the reports about the evidence.; ১২/১২/১১, ১০:১৩ AM
Titus বলেছেন...: My mom was devastated about this.

He his her fav. player.; ১২/১২/১১, ১০:২২ AM
Joe Schmoe বলেছেন...: They are so good that they can give expert testimony based on a brief news article without reading any of the reports about the evidence.

David, do you follow this stuff at all? It's clear from this comment that you don't know what you're talking about. The whole process is well-documented and not as vague as you'd like to intone. This is not a rush to judgement. Braun's already admitted the positive test by vowing his innocence.

If you read this, you'll see how a false positive is unlikely. As I said earlier, it's possible he unknowingly applied the substance, but in order to overturn this he'll need a credible witness and physical evidence.

Name me a famous athlete who's tested positive for drugs and later been exonerated.; ১২/১২/১১, ১১:১৭ AM
Known Unknown বলেছেন...: Make of this what you will.

Seems so out of whack that there might be another explanation.

I personally don't have a problem with PEDs being taken by adult athletes. Most often, they are taken for players looking to reduce injury and recovery time.; ১২/১২/১১, ১১:২৫ AM
Wally Kalbacken বলেছেন...: Regarding the Stooges, I had the honor of speaking with Moe Howard in a 1975 phone conversation about 3 months before his passing. Really a wonderful gentleman, he reminisced about the early days of the Stooges, and their appearance at the Riverside Theater in Milwaukee in the early 1930's. He was battling emphysema at the time, but had razor sharp recall, and was very generous with his time in speaking to some knuckleheaded teen-age fans who pried his home phone number out of the Screen Actors Guild by trick.

Sometimes you hear about someone who "shook the hand of someone who shook the hand of someone who shook the hand on one of the Founders" (say, Jefferson).

Me? I spoke to Moe Howard.; ১২/১২/১১, ১২:৫১ PM
ndspinelli বলেছেন...: Wally, Thanks..great story.; ১২/১২/১১, ৩:৩৫ PM
Chip S. বলেছেন...: Is it certain that he didn't say "I am unbelievably innocent"?; ১২/১২/১১, ৪:০৯ PM
The Unknown Pundit বলেছেন...: News flash -- moral panic over steriods leads to irrational fears over said substances. Stupid laws and rules ensue due to moral panic. Nowadays, otherwise good and decent people are considered bad for using certain substances due to moral panic of a few yeras back.

Stay tuned for more bread and circuses brought to you by previous moral panics.; ১২/১২/১১, ৪:১৯ PM
David বলেছেন...: Joe Schmoe:

The article says: "“Because Ryan doesn’t know what caused the positive result, we’re still doing our analysis,” said a person with knowledge of the tests and appeal. The positive test did not show he ingested any steroid or performance-enhancing drug, that person added."

Now what the hell does that mean?

You seem to be impressed by the non sworn, uninformed statements of some guy named Walder, who was a bigwig in the international anti doping agency.

Not surprisingly, he is sure these tests can't possibly be wrong.

You don't know shit about the field, Joe, and neither do I. With luck, Braun will find a good lawyer who will put the tests and methods to a real examination and inquiry. Quite often such inquiries bring surprises.

Here's the difference between our approaches, Joe: I am admitting my ignorance on the technical issue. You are showing yours, without recognizing it.; ১২/১২/১১, ৫:২৯ PM
DADvocate বলেছেন...: Me, too. Completely innocent. And as pure as the driven snow.; ১২/১২/১১, ৮:৪৮ PM
Joe Schmoe বলেছেন...: David, you seem to be stomping around and sputtering without rebutting or refuting any of my earlier points.

I do appreciate your honesty here:

I am admitting my ignorance on the technical issue.

Just because you don't know something doesn't mean no one else does, either. Pompous and arrogant; you must be a hit with the ladies.; ১৩/১২/১১, ৮:৩৭ AM
Joe Schmoe বলেছেন...: Make of this what you will.

EMD, that is an interesting article. Obviously Braun's camp is going to spin his innocence. I'm very curious to see how this plays out.; ১৩/১২/১১, ৮:৪৭ AM