Organizers' signature counts can't be independently verified. The petitions won't be submitted for verification before organizers have gathered more than the required total of signatures.
২৮ নভেম্বর, ২০১১
Recall Walker organizers say they have 300,000 signatures.
They need 540,208 by January 17th.
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Invalid signature rates are generally at least 20%
I believe the organizers will collect enough valid signatures. I believe their candidate will then get pummeled at the polls. This is obvious. Madison is a red area in a blue state.
Watch for the ones signed by Joe and Lana Stalin.
So do Badgers have a death wish?
I am getting so pissed at this situation. I hope there are enough of us non-drum-bangers left in this state to keep Walker in office.
I suspect most of the signatures are legit.
Most of the people that i have seen collecting signatures have looked awfully cold and lonely, so i am surprised that they already have 300 K signatures though.
I guess we have to have an actual fiscal implosion (not just a near implosion) before the greedy public employee unions get it. They will cause the Titanic to sink and all the while will be trying to line their pockets with as many goodies as they can get before they push the truly less fortunate out of the way so they can get the last life-raft. Yes, Billy Zane, i am looking at you.
My health care premiums went up another 25% this year. Can i recall my ceo? Should i stalk his family and call him "worse than Hitler"? Since i feel really adamant that it isn't fair for me to pay more, doesnt that mean i shouldnt have to?
Don't forget the four Senate recalls. I hear they are ahead of pace as well.
Yes Gargage , let's not let them forget :)
Of course, the folks checking the signatures will be public employee union members.
What's truly fascinating about all this is that Democratic state and city officials around the country are doing the same things Walker is doing. Where is the outrage at what my beloved Mayor Rahm is doing?
And do you foolish knaves really believe that a Democrat-controlled government is going to overturn the most critical parts of these new laws you hate? I mean, Allie, you probably do, because you are an idiot. But I expect a more astute reading from Garage.
Seven, is your blue mask making you grumpy? Too small for your big brain? You are really tightly wound, Xanax helps.
That last sentence was a run-on, Allie. Are you a Wisconsin English teacher, by chance?
Including: Mickey Mouse, DOnald Duck, Prince Philip, Lady Diana, and Marilyn Monroe.
If your union thug tells you to keep filling out names, you run out of relatives real fast.
I think the count is a lIE!
But I think that of most news reports.
Meanwhile, "IF" there's a recall ... I can see other republicans in Wisconsin trying to hang onto Walker's coattails. Because, for sure, Mitt and Newt have none.
No Seven I'm an RN, familiar with people with anger management issues, like yourself. Again,Xanax helps.
Allie's response, then, is to attempt to medicate people who disagree with her. Truly totalitarian. Nurse Ratchet all the way, but without the panache. Way to show your true colors so gloriously.
How about a gulag? Do you advocate those, too, for people you disagree with? You are, after all, a medical professional.
And, incidentally, I'm still waiting for any kind of response at all to the substance of my argument. Why no anger at Mayor Rahm, who is doing the same things? And do you seriously believe these laws you so detest will be overturned?
I suspect I'll get no answers.
No anger at Mayor Rahm because he's a Democrat, obviously. But I doubt anyone on the left will admit that, because it would further expose their hypocrisy.
IDK what the endgame here is supposed to be. Walker DID campaign on collective bargaining issues; it even appeared in a WEAC newsletter months before the election.
Even if he is recalled, and the Dems take the state senate, the Reps have a big majority in the assembly, so none of the recently-passed laws will be overturned.
They will be overturned if we Democrats will get our majority in both senate and legislature. See, even my little nurse brain could figure that one out.
I don't give a shit about what Rham is doing , that's your problem in IL.
I suggested medication for you because you act as if you have deep seated problems, you immediately insult and demean, borderline personality disorder perhaps? Not because I disagree with you.
Yes to the Gulag with you. Just for "treatment" of course.
11/28/11 11:26 PM
in both hostage senate and legislature
Totalitarian even in Freudian slips. Frightening.
Of course, I'm not too frightened. Stupid people are no good at totalitarianism, or anything else.
Rahm.
Way to edit quickly, there, Allie.
Incidentally, I don't think it's fair for you to say all those bad things about me just because I am pointing out that you are stupid and banal. You are stupid and banal.
The totalitarian thing is just coming out. Hostage! I mean, come on. And then to try to save yourself on edit. Child, please.
Seven, I guess I should add Paranoia to your diagnosis.
P.S.: An intelligent person would simply note that I had spelled Ratched incorrectly and leave it at that.
Sadly, you are not an intelligent person.
To the barricades! With your lattes! In your Volvos!
OK, Seven, you got me, I WAS envisioning taking you hostage.
Your personality , the constant insults are actually boring and unimaginative, repetative. I'm sure you can be more creative .
Or, perhaps you can't.
Have you ever tried to talk someone out of suicide? It goes pretty much like this is.
Pathetic reasons without foundation all based in selfishness. This recall will be an embarrassment of historic proportions...no matter which way it goes, but if it succeeds, it will be even worse for the Dems. Like Obama, Dems have no solutions, because their very ideology is the problem, and when they get power they prove it over and over.
Now may be the last chance for conservative ideas to save Wisconsin, but if you want to really damage the Democratic party, let the recall succeed - let them win. They will reverse all the positive reforms made and make the place a basket case in about 2 years. It's what they do. "Suicide Is Painless", but not the financial kind. Sorry.
They will be overturned if we Democrats will get our majority in both senate and legislature. See, even my little nurse brain could figure that one out.
My little nurse brain wants to know why you would overturn the very thing that will head your state onto solid fiscal ground.
An honest question (ok, a bunch of questions) for Garage and/or Allie-
I sincerely want to understand why we have such completely different positions on the recall.
what is the ultimate goal for the recall besides the obvious?
I mean, once Scott Walker is gone, and assuming that somehow you reverse his policies (which is a bit doubtful)...then what?
Does giving public employees, who still have kick ass benefits, even kick assier benefits help poor people?
How does that make WI a better place?
How do we balance the budget?
How do we make our schools better?
More of the same that Jim Doyle gave us? Should we go back to smoke/mirrors and raiding patient compensation funds (illegally) to deal with our budget mess?
What are your fresh ideas - or are you satisfied with the prior status quo (rapidly worsening debt and worsening public schools)?
I honestly want to know.
Got to get to bed, but if you are still up and would be willing to answer some of my questions, I would appreciate it and will check the thread in the morning.
My little nurse brain wants to know why you would overturn the very thing that will head your state onto solid fiscal ground.
Because she's a ghost dancer just sure that a new era of entitlement spending is just around the corner. She's a member of a cargo cult just sure that the airplanes will return to drop luxurious benefits and pensions from the sky for free if only she and her latte-drinking friends will just believe.
Luckily, actual politicians, even Democratic ones, aren't nearly so stupid and naive.
Good work Seven! Much more imaginative.
I would like to note that's (300,000) roughly how many public employees there are in Wisconsin.
What if you had a system of government with so many government agents that the agents could effectively control the democratic process as a bloc, so as to use the government to benefit themselves?
What would you call that?
The problem with the right is what happens when they actually lose a recall. They become unhinged.
Here in Arizona the news and local media (I wish I could post a link) are reporting that Pearce recall organizer Randy Parraz is having to lay low for the moment while police investigate a 'credible threat' against his life.
Like I said, unhinged. Imagine what people like that will do if Walker is recalled, or even more, if Obama is re-elected next year.
I sincerely want to understand why we have such completely different positions on the recall.
I ain't gonna speak for the others you mentioned, but as for me...I'm in favor of recalling Walker because he was the driving force in making it illegal to have workplace conditions and safety issues as part of a collectively-bargained contract with the city/county/state. Those actions will make my workplace a less safe place to be.
While I do support some of the things that the WI-GOP has done, that one literally puts my life at risk and thus overrules practically everything else...
Collective bargaining is the only way to have a safe workplace?
Is your home safe? Do you bargain collectively for that?
Walker DID campaign on collective bargaining issues
You sure about that? 'cause it has been looked into, and it appears that he really didn't...
For this item, we reviewed dozens of news accounts and various proposals on Walker’s campaign website to determine what he said about collective bargaining during the campaign. We talked to both campaigns in the governor’s race, and union officials.
During the campaign, Walker prided himself on presenting many specific proposals to voters. Our Walk-O-Meter includes 60-plus specific promises. Indeed, his plans for the state Department of Natural Resources include at least seven specific elements, including appointment of a "whitetail deer trustee" to review deer counts.
But nowhere in our search did we find any such detailed discussion of collective bargaining changes as sweeping as Walker proposed.
http://tiny.cc/d96m0
Also, keep in mind that he referred to this as "dropping a bomb" and a surprise during a recorded call to who-he-thought-was-a-Koch-brother. Sounds like even he knew it was gonna be a surprise...
Collective bargaining is the only way to have a safe workplace?
It is the only way to have a lot of safety issues and workplace conditions...especially for specialized trades/professions...able to be enforced via contract-law, rather than be just mere suggestions.
Is your home safe? Do you bargain collectively for that?
There ain't anybody at my house telling me I have to climb on my roof without a safety harness if I wanna stay there.
And before you play the "OSHA" card, keep in mind that they don't always require someone to wear a harness, especially for heights as tall as my roof...which is why I say claiming we don't need unions 'cause OSHA will always keep ya safe is like saying we don't need concealed carry 'cause the police will always keep you safe. Both statements may sound good in theory, but reality says otherwise.
Penguin -- You make cogent points insofar as it goes but the fact is that you are grossly coddled and intellectually lazy. Collective bargaining is a complex ritual about agreement between employers and employees. Its time has long past. There is no reason whatsoever that safety regulations cannot be completely satisfactory without the ritual.
Also, Politfact is a highly partisan entity. Much has been written.
7M, Many people have been over this again and again with the penq, but can't get a coherent story. It usually goes something like this:
Q. What safety rules have been eliminated on your job since the "Walker reforms" were enacted?
A. We need longer lunch breaks.
Q. How does your employer get insurance coverage with these unsafe job sites?
A. Are you askin' where I work? Are you stalking me?
Q. Why are you so selfish that you're willing to put the entire state through a recall election just b/c you're afraid that you might--just possibly--get hit with a brick tossed by a coworker?
A. I'm not selfish. This is the will of the people!
Q. So, you'd be fine with having annual elections?
A. Sure, why not?
Allie said...
Seven, is your blue mask making you grumpy? Too small for your big brain? You are really tightly wound, Xanax helps.
Is anything the single-celled intelligence says for real?
Xanax is for anxiety, not a happy pill.
One thing Seven doesn't seem to have is a problem with that.
It shouldn't be all that difficult to cross-check signatures and gravestones.
Are there union rules limiting workers from going into cemeteries?
Is there a cemetery union?
It is illegal, is it not, for RNs to diagnose? I know my doctor friends find that tendency to be both offensive and hilarious.
purple: I'm in favor of recalling Walker because he was the driving force in making it illegal to have workplace conditions and safety issues as part of a collectively-bargained contract with the city/county/state.
Gov Walker only exists because the unions abused their collective bargaining contracts. Do you have any blame for them?
Its like New Jersey teachers blaming Gov Christie for the teacher layoffs. But the truth is he went to the Teachers Unions asking that teachers contribute 1.5% of their pay to their own health insurance. This would have closed almost 90% of the budget shortfall and prevented any need for layoffs.
The Teachers Unions told him to go pound sand. They would rather have layoffs than establish a precedent for future contract re-negotiations. So teachers got sent home.
And people like you blame Christie for that.
Can you at least agree that, in these hard times where everyone else is cutting back to the bone, these luxurious pension packages are not sustainable?
Well WEAC thought Walker was going to fundamentally change the Wisconsin's collectively bargaining system. In fact they created a flyer during the campaign highlighting two of the major components of the "surprise" Budget Repair Bill. I wonder how they knew what Walker was going to do ...
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/377095_10150383368387411_57082507410_8549314_1391393929_n.jpg
While I do support some of the things that the WI-GOP has done, that one literally puts my life at risk and thus overrules practically everything else...
Hysterical.
I love the hyperbole.
It is illegal, is it not, for RNs to diagnose?
I doubt a real RN would diagnose over the internet. I've worked with them on graveyard shifts in the ER (Baylor) and, while they are some of most insane and socially maladjusted people I've met, they do have strong ethics and standards.
I predict Allie will incarnate into another sock puppet claiming to be Marine or Fireman or 9/11 Widow. Anything to prop up her credibilty.
SuperDad: Well WEAC thought Walker was going to fundamentally change the Wisconsin's collectively bargaining system. In fact they created a flyer during the campaign highlighting two of the major components of the "surprise" Budget Repair Bill.
Ssssh. The libtard meme has been that Gov Walker never campaigned on a Budget Repair Bill, hence he's Hitler. Please don't overturn their narrative. They get all hyperbolic and violent. ;)
And do you foolish knaves really believe that a Democrat-controlled government is going to overturn the most critical parts of these new laws you hate?
The only thing they will get back is the automatic union dues deductions. The useful idiots just haven't figured this out yet.
"purplepenquin said...
Collective bargaining is the only way to have a safe workplace?
It is the only way to have a lot of safety issues and workplace conditions...especially for specialized trades/professions...able to be enforced via contract-law, rather than be just mere suggestions."
Again, you are not a public union employee. Are you?
If someone asks you to sign ask them for an ID would be interesting to see what state they are from.
Does giving public employees, who still have kick ass benefits, even kick assier benefits help poor people?
How does that make WI a better place?
How do we balance the budget?
How do we make our schools better?
Don't expect Allie to try and respond as she is stupid beyond belief. Garage doesn't have the necessary logic to get to these questions and they aren't answered on the leftist blogs he reads so he'll ignore them.
But, right on que:
Just like scores of other communities across Rhode Island, if you live in Warwick, you’ve seen a steady increase in property taxes every year over the last ten years—more often than not, by the maximum allowed by law. But a GoLocalProv review of reports shows Warwick’s tax increases went, almost exclusively, to increases in the costs of benefits to city employees—not to increases in services or infrastructure.
To be more precise, 92.5-percent of all new revenue went to pensions, healthcare, salaries, sick pay bonuses, and longevity. The remaining 7.25-percent went to services and infrastructure.
Of course they'll retort that infrastructure is "under-funded" or some other such nonsense...
Wow. Smells pretty bitter in here. Walker doesn't have anything to worry about. Does he?
Seven, people like Rahm get a pass because to be a Democrat means their heart is in the right place. They just mean so doggone well even when their policies go so horribly awry.
See Barney Frank.
Yes Fen, it is illegal for a nurse to diagnose, much less over the Internet. I am Byro.
Walker doesn't have anything to worry about. Does he?
Right now, no, because the Dems are playing rock-paper-scissors to see who has to run against him in the recall election. Still no one throwing their hat in the ring? Garage, you wanna declare your candidacy right here on Althouse? You seem like a man of the people.
LOL, ha Michael, still chasing my tail? I can diagnose all I want , I'm retired.
@Joe
I'm sure Dems know who the candidate is going to be. Personally I hope it's Dave Obey.
garage mahal said...
Wow. Smells pretty bitter in here. Walker doesn't have anything to worry about. Does he?
Considering idiots like you, who believe that 300,000 people have actually signed these petitions, are the opposition, no, no Walker doesn't have much to worry about.
See Barney Frank.
Barney admitted yesterday he isn't running becuase it would have been too tough a race.
Garage pissed all over himself yesterday pretending that we don't know why Frank retired.
Why, it almost as if garage is stupid or something.
Considering idiots like you, who believe that 300,000 people have actually signed these petitions, are the opposition, no, no Walker doesn't have much to worry about.
Good one Jaytard! Republicans in the state appear to be much more worried than you are though. Oh well. I'm sure everything is fine.
Barney Frank is simply trying to get away with all the loot he's acquired before the next administration's Justice Dept throws him in jail.
It amazes me how these weasels can destroy our system (Frannie/Freddie) and then retire to a life of luxury without consequence.
It doesn't matter if recall organizers get enough signatures if the Democratic opponent is crappy.
Republicans in the state appear to be much more worried than you are though
Hardly. The GOP wins either way. Either 1) Walker remains and his union busting becomes the model for local governments everywhere across America, or 2) the Dems win and turn Wisconsin into Detroit.
There simply isn't enough money to fund the Unions. To borrow from Insty: "If something can't go on forever, it won't".
Garage, what's your big plan to reign in out-of-control spending? More taxes to launder through union dues to support your army of lobbyists?
I can tell you Harry Balls signed last week.
We need longer lunch breaks.
I never said nor even implied that.
But I now understand why Chip beleives as he does. He simply does not know how to read, and thus the foundation for his opinion is based on faulty data.
garage mahal said...
Good one Jaytard! Republicans in the state appear to be much more worried than you are though. Oh well. I'm sure everything is fine.
Um, yeah, you keep telling yourself there is so much "worry"
IDK, I'm a bit worried. 750K people were either Walker-deranged or dumb enough to vote for Kloppenburg for Supreme Court, despite her having been passed over for judicial appointment by at least two governors (one a Democrat) and Obama.
The hard-core Walker-haters would vote for *anyone* who runs against Walker, even someone as unqualified for governor as Kloppenburg was for the Supreme Court. If they get a halfway-decent candidate, like Feingold, they might just attract enough independents to win.
Also, if the Walker supporters get over-confident, or are lazy, and stay home on election day (if there is one), the Dems might win.
Of course the Dems have no proof that they actually have 300K legit signatures, and they've said they're not turning any in early so the verification process can start.
Neither do they have a decent candidate yet.
But the GAB is on their side, having clarified that people can sign multiple times, but only one signature will count, but then also saying that they will assume that all signatures are valid and they won't check unless signatures are challenged.
I also wouldn't underestimate the deranged hatred out there for Walker, even though he's done exactly what he campaigned on. There's no reasoning with the deranged, especially those with a HUGE sense of entitlement.
Eddutcher, "happy pills" ARE anti anxieties. Ask your shrink.
Maybe he will prescribe one to go along with your Aricept.
Um, yeah, you keep telling yourself there is so much "worry"
Columbia County signatures already surpassed the number of votes cast for Barrett. I would be a wee bit worried if other rural counties are coming in this strong. If I were a Republican. Which I'm not.
Jay said: Considering idiots like you, who believe that 300,000 people have actually signed these petitions...
Jay meant: Considering idiots like you, who believe that 300,000 actual people have signed these petitions...
Lots of duplicates, fakes, and ineligibles so far I'd guess. But I don't doubt they'll get 540,000 of the adult-age, child-mentality people in the state to sign the petition eventually. Then what?
Columbia County signatures already surpassed the number of votes cast for Barrett.
Hilarious.
Yeah, I bet they have.
You just keep telling yourself that.
I wonder how many really enthusiastic Walker-haters haven't signed yet. It seems from here in the middle of it all that there has been a lot of enthusiasm for getting signatures before the weather shuts down--it's been unseasonably nice here--and the holiday frenzy starts distracting people. I find it hard to imagine that there are a lot of real Walker-haters who haven't gotten around to signing.
A lot of malls and stores have been kicking the recallers off their property, but at least here in Madison, it's not hard to find someone holding a petition that you can sign.
Or multiple petitions, and the Dem website tells people specifically that signing more than once is legal.
Which it is, which is just bizarre.
Lots of nurses in my family and know plenty of others. There are many types of nurse with fewer and fewer classified as what we think of nurses -- people who take care of patients and assist doctors. There are more and more "nurses" who are simply glorified social workers. The latter tend to be the most politically militant, find a way to lodge themselves in a government job (like city health departments) and generally couldn't cut it as traditional nurses.
Jay meant:
Jay has no fucking idea what he's talking about.
I don't recall you being so torn up when Republicans were trying to recall 6 Democrats last summer, and even running fake primary Democrats. Remember, they filed first. Change of heart?
It's pretty easy to get to 300,000 signatures from college campuses and by hitting up public employees and their families who never voted for a Republican. That is the advantage of living and working in intellectually sheltered enclaves where everyone thinks the same way.
Change of heart?
I wasn't in support of that recall election, either, but I did consider dereliction of duty (fleeing the state) to at least be a legitimate reason for recall.
‘Allie’ said, “"happy pills" ARE anti anxieties. Ask your shrink. Maybe he will prescribe one to go along with your Aricept.”
HELL, should it exist, must consist of being dependent on nurses to stay alive- on a ward staffed by “It’s not in my job description” union nurses.
As for the 300,000 signatures, they probably do have them. Not only are there that many government employees in Wisconsin, but national unions have sent in hordes of operatives to gather signatures.
One can only hope that Walker et. Al. can get across the message that living in a state that’s owned and operated by public-sector unions (e.g., Illinois) is only marginally better than living in a ward staffed with union nurses.
garage mahal said...
Jay has no fucking idea what he's talking about.
Hysterical.
Such composure coming from the side that is so cock-sure on the recall.
Tosa Guy said;
Lots of nurses in my family and know plenty of others. There are many types of nurse with fewer and fewer classified as what we think of nurses -- people who take care of patients and assist doctors. There are more and more "nurses" who are simply glorified social workers. The latter tend to be the most politically militant, find a way to lodge themselves in a government job (like city health departments) and generally couldn't cut it as traditional nurses.
11/29/11 9:13 AM
In my career as an RN for over 30 years, I've worn many different caps, that is what is so great about nursing.
so you are saying you couldn't cut it as a traditional nurse? ;)
Where are the pro Walker partisans ripping up the recall petitions as the democrat thugs did to recall petitions against their democrat allies? Democrats are the party of thugs and parasites. If Wisconsin rejects Walker they deserve to fail and I will implore my reps not to give a single dollar to Wisconsin to bail them out of their democrat caused misery. Tough Love, baby
From my experience and personal observations, nurses know a thing or two about "overreach"..often being masters of the art. And often being unionized, have the power and temperament to hold their superiors in a state of deference regarding some pretty pivotal care issues. It can get pretty ugly...seen it up close.
"It's pretty easy to get to 300,000 signatures from college campuses and by hitting up public employees and their families "
Yes...don't underestimate the pub sector union tentacles of couples/families that organize their insurance choices around state benny largesse. But even with collective bargaining completely removed from the equation, Wisco public sector workers enjoy civil service benefits and protections that should make them blush..if they knew any better. And a limited minority actually do..
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