The lawyers point out that they believe Mr. Paterno's testimony matches that of their clients. "All of them testified that Mr. McQueary did not tell any of them that he witnessed anal sodomy on March 1, 2002."...
The shower story "is a graphic image provided by a third-party witness," says Wesley Oliver, a professor of criminal law at Widener School of Law in Harrisburg, Pa. "Other stories [in the grand jury presentment] about touching are more ambiguous."
২৩ নভেম্বর, ২০১১
Penn State defense strategy: McQueary's credibility.
The Wall Street Journal reports:
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I applaud the defense attorneys. But this is just for show. I rest assured the testimony of victims not seen in the shower and other evidence is ample.
Not much of a defense since Paterno's own grand jury testimony was that McQueary told him Sandusky was "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy" in the showers at the football facility.
Regardless of whether McQeary reported straight-up anal rape or "just" fondling, something should have been done, no?
So what if he didn't say the magic words "anal sodomy"?
McQueary probably tried to report what he saw tactfully. And he likely didn't stick around to look too closely.
For not gawking at the child rape, and for not spelling out the obvious in graphic detail, he's now apparently going to be the sacrificial lamb.
Penn State and the lawyers for Sandusky & Co are just taking the Catholic Church playbook and running with it.
> a professor of criminal law at Widener School of Law
Widener School of Law?? Talk about a credibility problem!
This will endear Penn State to people even more.
It calls into question whether McQeary even told the truth as to what he saw---did not see.
Anything related to the "lie" i.e. no police report found, is not relevant. No?
Paterno can get out of this one unscathed legally, I'll bet.
Paterno can get out of this one unscathed legally, I'll bet.
Legally, sure. But he'll die a pariah.
McQueary was a reluctant witness. Someone he knew "told the DA, who is now dead" ... that McQuery saw at least one sex act against a minor.
Then? McQueary goes from being a graduate student to being hired by Penn State's football team. And, Sandusky gets McQueary to join the Second Mile charity.
Doesn't matter. The truth is out.
Joe Paterno is 84. Any good lawyer can get this case to drag on until hell freezes over.
On the other hand, every single football game where Penn State participates ... there's a larger global audience looking in ... and thinking "freaks."
Good players aren't planning on attending Penn State after high school graduation.
And, the law program at Penn State is now offering "free" with every application! Save $60. Apply now. There will be slots available.
But reputations can't be rebuilt by PR.
Today Drudge has a headline that someone in Sandusky's family has stepped forward claiming Sandusky raped a minor male child.
As to the kid whose marriage is on the rocks. Where his wife filed that her children cannot spend "overnights" at grandpa's house ... already has a judge's approval.
Happy Valley was not a friendly courthouse, once, to anyone telling a judge that "abnormal things were happening to young boys."
The truth has changed everything.
The real problem is the dead DA. And, the missing tape recording, done back in 1998. At the mom's house ... WHO BLEW THE WHISTLE.
All the grand jurors got was "testimony" that the conversation happened. The mom testified. As did two defectives. Ray Gricar, the dead DA couldn't testify. He had "disappeared."
Nobody knows how the story unfolds from here.
For sure, either Penn State cancels its football "program." OR a new coach comes on board. Either way, McQueary loses his job. New coaches bring in their own staffs. Old staffs? They go where the old coaches go.
Joe Patrino won't be coaching.
McQueary might get a book offer? What if he can piece together the "disappearing act of Mr. Gricar?
At least the Happy Valley mafia can't kill him. Look on the bright side.
Isn't that Sandusky's defense strategy?
Saying it is Penn State's is sloppy writing.
By far the most interesting person to me is Gary Schultz, whose defense strategy this is. The University-as-municipality police reported up to him, he interviewed McQueary at the time, and as far as we know now the 2002 trail ended with him. And he must have impressed the GJ, too. And the ritual destruction of McQueary helps . . . Schultz. Short of finding the former DA, the hinge appears to be Schultz.
And he must have impressed the GJ, too.
Huh?
The GJ thought he was lying, hence the perjury charge.
And he likely didn't stick around to look too closely.
That's part of the problem, IMO. What kind of a man wouldn't intervene and assure the safety of the child?
For not gawking at the child rape, and for not spelling out the obvious in graphic detail, he's now apparently going to be the sacrificial lamb.
Oh, please ... As he should be if he saw anything involving a naked middle aged+ man and a naked 10 year old boy in the football facility showers. Period.
He, and the rest of the chain, should have their asses kicked, Repeatedly.
As I said earlier ... I feel to puke. Regardless of the "degree" of violation, WTF??!! There-is-no-excuse-for-any-of-it.
Who are ya gonna believe?
Me?...or your lying eyes!!
I'm going Carol_Herman here...but did Paterno have an appetite for boys too??
What kind of a man wouldn't intervene and assure the safety of the child?
This is such bullshit Internet heroism. I'm sorry, but I've seen it too many times.
When was the last time you intervened to stop a large man from committing a crime?
Severn Machos ...
To answer your question: About 20 years ago now, and at least twice before that.
So take your "keyboard hero" crap and stuff it. I asked a question, based upon my own experience. I did not slight the character of anyone here.
So tell me: What would you have done in a similar circumstance?
The strategy is to circle the wagons and quickly build a fire wall between the Pennsylvania State University and the horrible crimes of Sandusky.
The University employees never heard that full story before ...right...get that now?
It is weak. But the lawyers are inserting a peg into the wall that the jury can hang its hat on when it pardons its beloved University.
Dumb bastard!
He should have left PennState years ago!
When was the last time you intervened to stop a large man from committing a crime?
Unless he had a bazooka up his ass, he was obviously unarmed and smaller than McQueary.
CNN reported that victim #1's mother pulled him from high school after threats from other students and his own coach.
"Seven Machos said...
What kind of a man wouldn't intervene and assure the safety of the child?
This is such bullshit Internet heroism. I'm sorry, but I've seen it too many times.
When was the last time you intervened to stop a large man from committing a crime?"
Idiocy. McQuery is 6'5", muscular, and 30 years the junior of Sandusky. But more important HE KNEW IT WAS SANDUSKY! I mwan a simple "Jerry WTF are you doing? STOP" would have done the trick I'm sure.
Seriously. What kind of defense do they really have?
I mwan a simple "Jerry WTF are you doing? STOP" would have done the trick I'm sure.
This is another assumption that bothers me. You have no idea what he said to Sandusky at that time, or if he remained silent. There is a tendency among humans to fill in the missing facts. It is often inaccurate.
I agree that this McQueary ultimately acted unconscionably. I'd kill myself. But in the there and then, at that moment, you can't insert yourself and only do good as your fictive self.
McQ said in that email that he stopped the buggery, but didn't say he took the boy home himself or even learned his name. I haven't heard that the boy has been identified--that may be what the DA was trying to do the last two years.
It isn't obvious to me why McQ would tell one version to Paterno and another to the two indicted officials. They may have trouble getting the perjury charges to stick.
@seven Machos
Never saw "a large man" committing a crime, but I was alone in our shop when three hoods started to kick the back door in. All I had time to do was grab a 2x4 and crack the door once. Shouted "Com'n in boys! Got sumthin' for ya'!" Like most criminals they were the ones scared and they ran off.
Criminals as a class are cowards, and stupid. Just McQueary showing his face probably would have stopped the rape. Nothing kills a rape buzz like someone you work with catching you in the act.
On the other post on this subject someone asked me why I said Woody Hayes was a bad coach. In mt defense I said he was the worst PERSON to coach a national team. And as proof I offer the game where he grabbed the player from the opposing team and started punching him. Even Bobby Knight only did that to his own players.
Oh! That just struck me...Bobby Knight, Joe Paterno, Jim Tressel, Woody Hayes...Big 10's had some real charmers as coaches. As a matter of fairness, we in the SEC have had some good'uns too.
Also as questioned about my assertion that CBS, and ESPN makes billions off of NCAA sports. Just try to contemplate that CBS paid 10 billion dollars for 14 years for the rights to televise the NCAA Basketball Tournement should make it clear that yes they make billions off of college sports.
What McQueary told the GJ, and what the indicted officials told the GJ McQueary said, seem somehow different. Oddly enough, there may be a reason why Schultz and Curley, who were indicted for perjury, were indicted for perjury. Just a thought.
Post this: There is someone in your family that you know and love and who has done you countless good turns. You feel nothing but gratitude and trust towards this person. Posit further that you catch this man committing a truly monstruous crime. My question is how much you would do to destroy this man's life and reputation? Would it be the minimum possible consistent with decency or would you do everything within your power to destroy him?....I have some sympathy for McQueary. He is a secondary figure within the drama, but his life and career have been effectively ruined. Roman Polanski was guilty of raping a child and will die old and full of honors. McQueary was guilty of insufficient fervor in revealing a crime, and he will be unable to find a job as a gymn teacher.
Seven Machos said...
I mwan a simple "Jerry WTF are you doing? STOP" would have done the trick I'm sure.
This is another assumption that bothers me. You have no idea what he said to Sandusky at that time, or if he remained silent. There is a tendency among humans to fill in the missing facts. It is often inaccurate."
The only one making assumptions is you. According to the grand jury report, he simply left. Took no action. Said no words. Evn though he said that both Sandusky and the boy saw him.
Curious -- The grand jury is certainly no final finder of fact.
We are in witch hunt territory.
Everyone is screaming guilty.
After all, it's so horrible it must be true, right?
Sandusky admits he showered with the kid. And, says "horsing around" included the kid turning all the shower heads on ... And, sliding his backside up and down. And, back and forth. The shower room floor. Sandusky remembers this, because he laughed.
Then you see that the Second Mile "charity" started in 1977. And, it began making shit loads of money. Piles of money!
McQueary got bought off! He reported what he saw ... within the system he knew. It got him a coaching job following his "graduation" from graduate school.
And, Sandusky pumped money like crazy into the Penn State football "system." It built the "Beaver" football stadium. It provided the bronze statuette of Paterno ... with a bronze wall relief of Penn State football players ... "running" ... as if they're starting a "play."
The PR was HUGE.
The dead DA was the one who was "in hiding" with two detectives ... back in 1998. When the mom blew the whistle. Then? Her troubled son was 8 years old. Came home at 11:00 PM. With wet hair.
The TAPE of the conversation the mom had with Sandusky "disapeared."
The DA CLOSED THE CASE back in 1998.
McQueary doesn't come along until 2002.
And, around 1995 ... a janitor also saw anal penetration of a young boy.
Gricar's "evidence" has disappeared with Gricar.
McQueary's football career is KAPUT! The money he earned touting Second Mile is also gone.
HOWEVER, McQueary KNOWS all the pedophiles. They're rich donors to both the charity and the football team.
Yes. It involves "the powers that be" in Happy Valley. It probably involves queer judges, too.
Gricar, forced to re-open the case ... because new evidence appears on his desk ... "calls an unknown person. Says nothing to anyone else in the DA's office. And, ABSCONDS WITH EVIDENCE (like the 1998 tape recording) ... and drives somewhere to meet someone. And, never returns.
McQueary would be in fear of his life, now. (Especially because Sandusky is NOT behind bars! And, no one's cut off JoePa (Paterno's) ... telephone.
JoePa, on the other hand ... just saw a trophy ... being awarded to someone else ... that was going to be called the "STAGG PATERNO coaching trophy" ... having his name chiseled off.
The current PR campaign has Joe Paterno claiming he has "curable lung cancer." Be my guest. Believe what you want.
While someone from within Sandusky's family just put in a claim that her minor son "just got" raped by Jerry Sandusky.
So, the "lenient" judge will have to review "bail."
Meanwhile, Bernie Madoff CHOSE jail! He knew what the mafia could do to him. So, he opted to blow the whistle on his own Ponzi scheme.
What's the truth worth?
State's evidence, anyone, in a deal that includes information on how Ray Gricar disappeared?
The amazing thing about film clips, is how there are vaults. And, when news stories hit ... those vaults are reviewed.
Take Nixon, for instance. And, long after he was dead ... You could still see "vignettes" of when he was president.
Not the only case.
Yet in 1979, Paterno was 79. And, still "coaching." Because he wanted to earn the title of being "the winningest coach ever."
He wanted to beat Bear Bryant's record.
And, in 1979, at an "away" game ... that took place in Wisconsin. The 79 year old Paterno got in the way of a play. As a player from Wisconsin tripped over him. And, Paterno's left leg was broken.
Sure. The orthopedic surgeon travels with the team. Paterno is going to get care. BUT IT ISN'T ADVERTISED! Paterno didn't want anyone to know his leg got broken. Or how it got broke.
And, you're talking about a sports stadium in MADISON, WISCONSIN! (Where teams NOTORIOUSLY film their games ... so they get to "review" everything ... with the team. Whether the team won or lost.)
WHAT THE HELL EVER HAPPENED TO THAT SEGMENT OF TAPE WHERE PATERNO couldn't get out of the way of a play!
DISAPPEARED!
I'd even bet the coach at Wisconsin COOPERATED with Paterno ... when his organization asked for the "tape."
I'll bet ya dollars to donuts, NO ONE in Wisconsin has any memory of ever seeing Paterno getting his leg broken ... because he was ON the playing field ... As a player barreled into him.
Amazing!
He reported what he saw ... within the system he knew. It got him a coaching job
I hadn't thought of that, Carol. It would be difficult to prove it was a "hush" job, however.
Yet in 1979, Paterno was 79.
And he is therefore 111 today.
You are the greatest artist of high satire ever to walk this wretched earth. Truly a gorgeous hydrant. Your talents are wasted here.
Seven Machos said:
"What kind of a man wouldn't intervene and assure the safety of the child?
This is such bullshit Internet heroism. I'm sorry, but I've seen it too many times.
When was the last time you intervened to stop a large man from committing a crime?"
I think most 28 year old men would intervene to stop a boy from being anally raped. A large percentage of American men think they are bad asses. A large percentage of young American men fight just for the fun of it. As men get older they mostly stop fighting for fun but they still remember how to mix it up and will do it for the right reason (protecting their family, for example).
One would have to be unusually fearful and cowardly not to help a boy being anally raped.
I grew up in Missouri and have lived nearly my entire adult life in Texas so maybe that is a Missouri and Texas perspective.
I also grew up in Missouri. And I say show me all the facts before I scapegoat a guy for failing to be heroic.
failing to be heroic.
Most people don't see much heroism required in the shower.
After he reported it, and nothing happened, he needed some courage to buck the administration. To protect his own credibility, he needed to have done more on the night in question, at a minimum get the boy's name, or take him to a doctor for a butt exam. He said he was shocked, and I can believe that and that he didn't think things through. He could at least have spread nasty rumors about Sandusky.
I agree we don't have the whole story, so we should speculate wildly.
Seven Machos said...
This is such bullshit Internet heroism. I'm sorry, but I've seen it too many times.
When was the last time you intervened to stop a large man from committing a crime?
Well, it's been a while in my case, but I've stated before that I intervened when I saw a man on top of a woman, who had her blouse torn open and the guy was punching her out in a bar parking lot at night. I also caught a purse snatcher.
Just because the people in your social circle won't intervene to stop a crime doesn't mean there are no brave men out there. Some of us have even jumped out of airplanes.
Seven Machos said...
Curious -- The grand jury is certainly no final finder of fact.
=============
7M - Grand Jury testimony is taken seriously. McCreary said in sworn testimony he did nothing to intervene, he just said nothing and left the locker room.
You can argue that "no one knows" because only a formal trial of McCreary would be "the final finder of fact".
But that is disingenuous because you know no formal trial of McCreary is coming.
So that leaves all parties with just his grand jury testimony, and testimony of others that McCreary claimed he saw anal rape, while still others say McCreary limited his report to them to saying Sandusky and the boy were observed together, showering naked.
I agree with AllenS, though I never jumped from a plane except at optimal jump speed, at optimum level, over square miles of FLAT land with hundreds of miles of friendly US territory in every direction.
I intervened against a man beating a woman in public - knocking him out when his head hit the pavement, yelled out from to stop 3 black thugs mugging an old man and they did, called cops when (1)I was awakened at 4AM to see 2 guys breaking the plate glass in a liquor store across the street, (2) On finding a dead body in a power plant cooling water intake, (3)Burglar going in and out of my neighbors home, (4) Backing up a stranger holding two car thieves at gunpoint.
I do believe if I saw a man buggaring a boy - I would call the cops...stranger, colleague, boss - no matter.
The Penn State strategy, summarized:
First: Shift the blame away from the actual molester and onto the man who reported witnessing a molestation.
Second: Stretch this out until Joe Paterno dies.
Third: Reach a private cash settlement with the victims.
Fourth: Pretend it never happened.
Allen S. - I forgot to say thanks on the 11th.
Thank you!
"WHAT THE HELL EVER HAPPENED TO THAT SEGMENT OF TAPE WHERE PATERNO couldn't get out of the way of a play!
DISAPPEARED"
Wisconsin Earth to Carol Herman:
http://www.google.com/search?q=paterno+broken+leg+Wisconsin&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari
I'm with Seven. I've intervened twice to stop assaults. Both times it proved to be a very lonely act for me, even though plenty of people were present to have assisted me. I'm convinced that lots (though not all) of today's heroes on the internet would have suffered from tunnel vision if they had been in McQueary's shoes.
One more thing--do not get the impression that the GJ report was "authored" by the grand jury. There are 23 people on the GJ and their function is to approve what is proposed by attorneys in the AG's office. Now the GJ could collectively vote not to approve an indictment, and if they did, you'd never know, because they operate in private. Well, in private with a judge and the DA/AG present.
Anyway, the GJ voted to release the report, which was certainly authored by attorneys in the Atty Gen's office. But it more represents proposed findings that received the GJ's concurrence than true findings of the GJ . There. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving all.
7M: You repeatedly take McQueary's actions as fact, and of course that all comes from the Grand Jury record.
Until of course they are used to rebut your position. Then they become "no record of fact" and are out of bounds.
Odd.
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