November 5, 2011

"Mic Check" jackassery disrupting a speech by Governor Scott Walker.



Here's the report in the Chicago Tribune:
The Republican governor, who appeared before about 300 people at a public policy breakfast at Chicago's Union League Club, saw his speech interrupted by union-backed Occupy Chicago protesters for about six minutes before they left the event.

About 50 people who purchased tickets to the breakfast began chanting minutes into Walker’s remarks, reciting slogans such as “Union busting. It’s disgusting.” And “We are the 99 percent.” They also criticized Walker for being allowed free speech rights while blaming Mayor Rahm Emanuel for Chicago police arrests of 300 protesters who refused to leave Grant Park after an 11 p.m. curfew.
The rudeness is sickening. I don't understand how the protesters imagine that they will win support from anyone that way. They do seem driven to preventing Walker from ever speaking, but in fact, he did speak after they left. He said:
"The bottom line is, no matter how loud you shout, the facts are the facts. The facts are that our reforms have worked and continue to work in the state of Wisconsin.”
It only makes him look better.

AND: Speaking of things that make me queasy... that spelling "mic":
What's the correct spelling — "mic" or "mike"? It's mike, obviously! Do you know any guys named Michael who spell their nickname "Mic"? Imagine 2 Michaels, Mike and Mic: Which one do you want to have a beer with?
ALSO: There's a big debate about spelling in the comments at that last link. I participate a lot in the debate, saying things like:
Yeah, and no one says I'm riding my bic.

No one protests "no nucs."

290 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 290 of 290
Ritmo Re-Animated said...

Jackassery is an awesome word. However unconventionally it came into the English lexicon, I'm glad it's there.

Ritmo Re-Animated said...

Few good English words came about without a colorful history behind them. Predictable language developments are good for conjugating verbs, and not much else.

garage mahal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
garage mahal said...

which makes me think of the film "Brazil", which reminds me of the dysfunctional, authoritarian, centrally-controlled, nightmare society that you and your little unoccupied "Occupy [ ]" friends would like to create.

You are of course ignoring the centrally-controlled, authoritarian stormtroopers pepper spraying and gassing American citizens in the streets for exercising their First Amendment rights. Don't hear much bellayching about Nanny Bloomberg these days do we? Truth is conservatives love that big government authoritarian boot on someone's neck, as long as it's hippes of course, and not their own. Real tyranny isn't a rubber bullet shot to the head by the government causing brain damage. It's the inability to buy energy inefficient lightbulbs!

Ritmo Re-Animated said...

Yes, yes! Light bulbs deserve the sort of freedom that hippies and civil rights protesters don't!

Unleash the dogs and the water cannons! We have an authoritarian war against light bulbs to fight!

North Dallas Thirty said...

You are of course ignoring the centrally-controlled, authoritarian stormtroopers pepper spraying and gassing American citizens in the streets for exercising their First Amendment rights.

That's the problem. Garage thinks the First Amendment gives Obamabots like himself the "right" to vandalize, attack, commit assaults, and demand executions of Christians, Jews, and conservatives.

Ritmo Re-Animated said...

Freedom don't mean a thing unless the light bulbs are free also.

If medical technology allowed for it, it would be interesting to see the comparative levels of disgust that registers in the minds of some of the conservatives (and even "libertarians") on this board when shown pictures of Selma and a CFL.

Anonymous said...

"Probably too late and too far down the thread - but I've always had a divided opinion about Lincoln. Yes he saved the Union, but as a Federalist?"

Well, he definitely didn't save the union as an anti-federalist. :)

T. Jefferson and J. Adams hated each other over this issue.

gadfly said...

If a "Mic Check" refers to testing an audio microphone, there was only one present in the room and Scott Walker was using it. After the screaming of these prewritten rants, the world will suddenly begin to do as the doppelganger devils want? I think not. Will Scott Walker get some more Illinois businesses to move to the Badger State? You betcha, and the puke unionists will be the biggest reason for this result.

As John Lennon and the Beatles sang:

You say you got a real solution
Well you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well you know
We're doing what we can
But when you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright

Palladian said...

Oh dearest, silly, binary garage, the whole world can't be explained by your simplistic black-and-white imagination!

You see, it's entirely possible to despise dirty commies and nanny-state authoritarians at the same time; to be satisfied that an elected official enforces the rule of law and yet disagree with most of their policies and despise them personally; to agree that there are huge problems with State and corporate collusion and the gaming of the free market system and yet hope that smelly, nihilistic anarchists are arrested when they break the law. You see, there's a whole world of subtle gradations of grey out there, so much texture and refinement and shade, so much more to life than black and white!

You see there's a difference between a Titian painting and a one-color offset print.

Palladian said...

But, as you can see, the garages and the Ritmos aren't interested in subtlety or complexity or ideas. They're rooting for their TEAM! They're chucking spears for their TRIBE! They'll tilt at as many straw men as they can set up, because it's GO TEAM! RAH RAH!

You're either WITH US or AGAINST US, is the message being shouted.

Me, I don't like mob rule of any flavor.

Ritmo Re-Animated said...

to agree that there are huge problems with State and corporate collusion and the gaming of the free market system and yet hope that smelly, nihilistic anarchists are arrested when they break the law.

So, which is a bigger affront to your ideal legal sensibilities? Someone's disagreeable odor or someone's disagreeable philosophy?

Ritmo Re-Animated said...

Me, I don't like mob rule of any flavor.

I tried toying with that consideration, and concluded that you're really just a snob.

Oh, me! I am way too cool for politics! Keep that stuff FAR away from me!

A very sophisticated attitude, especially for 16-year olds.

But of course, we love you anyway, for some funny reason.

North Dallas Thirty said...

So, which is a bigger affront to your ideal legal sensibilities? Someone's disagreeable odor or someone's disagreeable philosophy?

11/5/11 3:46 PM

How about the OWS Obama Party's addiction to rapes?

Or arson?

Those are acceptable to Barack Obama and the OWS Obama Party that he, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid endorse.

Ritmo Re-Animated said...

;-)

Ritmo Re-Animated said...

Yep, the voice from North Dallas figures out what Wall Street's all about. Without their regulatory capture, rape would be legal. That's what it's all about. And conservatives never commit rape, neither. 'Specially in Texas.

Folks, don't listen to what them hippies done told ya. It's because of Goldman Sachs that rape is illegal.

Palladian said...

"So, which is a bigger affront to your ideal legal sensibilities? Someone's disagreeable odor or someone's disagreeable philosophy?"

Both of them stink, is the problem. But this isn't about body odor or philosophy, this is about actions. People can believe whatever they want and smell however they like. I have the freedom to walk away from what offends me. But if some of these people have their way, the stink will creep into our lives so pervasively that no amount of fresh air or deodorizer will be able to negate it. It's the difference between smelling something in passing and having your nose pushed into it.

Metaphorically speaking, of course.

Time to go to the art store!

Ritmo Re-Animated said...

Goldman Sachs is the true warrior, standing as a thin barrier between civilization and legalized RAPE!

What I would give to have such a simple-minded view of the world.

Thread's over.

Ritmo Re-Animated said...

But if some of these people have their way, the stink will creep into our lives so pervasively that no amount of fresh air or deodorizer will be able to negate it. It's the difference between smelling something in passing and having your nose pushed into it.

It's funny that your view of someone's "right" to keep them from poisoning you and the resources you rely on is not anywhere near as enlightened.

Enjoy the art store.

Palladian said...

"I tried toying with that consideration, and concluded that you're really just a snob."

You're right! I am a snob. I am offended by stupidity and ugliness and I do my best to keep far away from it (which is why I don't participate in the comments here much anymore).

"Oh, me! I am way too cool for politics! Keep that stuff FAR away from me!"

Yup. Keep your filthy politics off my body, to borrow a phrase. I have more important things to do with my limited time, usually. I'm interested in ideas; politics isn't about ideas, it's about teams and game playing, and I hate sports.

Anyway, thanks for the agreeable exchange. As disagreeable as I find some of your ideas and manners, it's nice to converse with someone who isn't serving up a homophobic, racist word-salad in the comments here.

CachorroQuente said...

"Goldman Sachs is the true warrior, standing as a thin barrier between civilization and legalized RAPE!"

Sounds like something Joe Biden might say.

Crime is a problem with the poundOWS movement though it doesn't seem to me to be a defining feature.

North Dallas Thirty said...

Yep, the voice from North Dallas figures out what Wall Street's all about. Without their regulatory capture, rape would be legal. That's what it's all about.

11/5/11 3:51 PM


Seems pretty obvious that the OWS Obama Party supports raping women -- and opposes laws against it, given their unwillingness to report rapes.

Kirk Parker said...

Sorry.

"Mic" is how we distinguish between people who work in industries that use mics, or know someone who does, from those who don't.

North Dallas Thirty said...

It's funny that your view of someone's "right" to keep them from poisoning you and the resources you rely on is not anywhere near as enlightened.

11/5/11 3:55 PM


Given how you support and endorse fraud and pollution when done by Obama Party leaders and donors, all you're doing is demonstrating that you are a lying hypocrite.

And if you care so much about pollution, one would think you'd be throwing a fit about your precious Pelosi, Obama, and Gore criss-crossing the country in massive jets to get back and forth between their multiple energy-sucking homes. But since you're not, you clearly don't care about pollution; you're just using it as do lying hypocrites to get your way.

mike said...

"Because when I watch the video I immediately grasp that they are the smartest, most virtuous, farsighted, and unselfish people in the world." who smell of stale urine and dried feces.

Carol_Herman said...

You know, it's a problem when the media takes crap like this, seriously.

It's like a Code Pink "attack." (Yes, George Soros, in his wisdom spending money ... buys the craziest assortment of "toys.") When the coverage comes, he thinks he's lucky.

As to his taste in politics, I tend to differ. Don't you?

Michael said...

Palladian. Well done!

caseym54 said...

Call these folks what they are: Obama's Brownshirts.

Cedarford said...

MnMark said...
Since when are our elected officials entitled to an expectation that we will not be rude to them?

Because a society cannot resolve disagreements peacefully without basic consideration for others.

When one side abandons that, it doesn't stop at shouting people down. It moves on to violence
==========
MM's 12:06 post is longer, and the rest is just as good. A very smart post.

If people look at history, they will see numerous examples of "the state" or other organized groups that use shoutdowns, intimidation, and ultimately violence to shutdown debate. Sometimes the more aggressive group does win the battle for the public square - the shoutdowns are effective, the law does not respond in a way that deters such aggression...or those being attacked do not counter with their own goon squads that shut down the protestors infiltrating their opposition's meetings, public rallies.

The nations that have weak laws protecting free speech and which cannot effectively use the State to shutdown the disruptions factions engage in against the speech of they others - give rise to competing good squads. The radical/communist unions of the Weimar Republic employing intimidation and violence against speech gave rise to the Brown shirts that shut them down. (the Brown shirts were effective enough they were loaned out to non-Nazi political groups and business leaders under assault in public).
Lincoln employed Pinkertons as goons to suppress any Copperheads disrupting his activities. DeGaulle had a fine goon squad of WWII Vets. Reagan employed a "professional security detail" as governor and then privately when running for President to "ensure the discourse remained peaceful". Huey Long never had a speech disrupted because he had a state police good squad in any crowd he addressed. Many American unions, riven by factionalism and challenges to leadership, employed goon squads to police their meetings.

garage mahal said...

You see, it's entirely possible to despise dirty commies and nanny-state authoritarians at the same time;

True! But that wouldn't describe you.

Cedarford said...

One memo to the Left is that unless the law finds the balls to shut down the goons that stifle free speech of their opposition...you will see counter-goon squads cropping up.

Be careful what you wish for.

Many a dictatorship has emerged from a beleagured democracy with weak laws that failed to prevent revolutionary factions from taking over the public square. And once that happens, the Left in those countries found the laws they flouted and proved ineffective were no check on their enemies, as well. No protection under law existed anymore.

Seeing Red said...

Walker's actions have been extreme, and it shouldn't be a surprise (to those who know history) that people are reacting in the manner they have.


Extreme? Dems are cutting back too.

Just because the state isn't the middleman anymore doesn't justify this.

Extreme, OTOH is taking away a person's right to a private vote a la CARD CHECK.

Christy said...

It's Saturday afternoon and football is metaphor for all else. Anyone else watch the Vanderbilt - Florida game today? Just me? Okay. Anyway, if you know Florida you can guess what happened when Florida was 4th and two. They lined up to go for it, then tricked Vandy into a false start. Penalty gave Florida its first down and that's all she wrote.

OWS is lined up as though they are genuinely engaged, doing whatever it takes to entice a foul.

Anonymous said...

@ZPS: "And this is only the beginning. These are scary times, and things are gonna get scarier. "

For you maybe. Who's got all the guns, idiot, and the ability to use them?

Michael Haz said...

Hey, commies...you might consider asking ACORN for a free ticket to CA for the winter protest season. Much better weather and abundant weed.

Gov Jerry Brown, that icon of west-coast liberalism wants to institute cuts far more drastic than Governor Walker's.

"Brown also called for workers to increase contributions toward their benefits, and wants to institute a "hybrid" pension model that would combine traditional pensions with a 401(k)-style plan. The Democratic [emphasis added] governor's plan would require that all public workers pay as much into their retirement savings as the government does, and is forecast to save from $4 billion to $11 billion in public funds over the next three decades."

Tubby Z said...

About 50 people who purchased tickets to the breakfast

Michael Moore should pick up the tab for that.

But he won't.

BJM said...

@garage

You are of course ignoring the centrally-controlled, authoritarian stormtroopers pepper spraying and gassing American citizens in the streets for exercising their First Amendment rights.

This is what jackassery looks like.

Judge for yourself if the Nov 3rd demonstrations in Oakland were "mostly peaceful".

And here's Garage's heroic Free Speachers in DC pushing a 78 yr old woman down the stairs...of course this is a DC reporter and a couple of dumb winger bitches, so they had it coming, right?

Kirk Parker said...

"Do you ride a bike or a bic? It's BICycle!

Do you protest against nukes or nucs? It's NUClear weaponry! "

Oh, and the past tense of "go" is "goed", isn't it?

docweasel said...

Your attempts to codify common abbreviations are doomed to failure. The English language is so rife with exceptions, exceptions to exceptions, rules for rules and then exceptions to those rules.

"bicycle/bike" and "Michael/Mike" notwithstanding, I ran a recording studio 1984-2001, played in dozens of bands during that time and worked as a professional soundman for national acts.

We spelled it, when we spelled it, as "mic", probably because it's shorter and it seemed logical, short for "microphone", "mic. #1" "mic #2" etc. Why would you add more letters, to assuage the sensibilities of language drones like those in the comments above. It's a microphone and abbreviated mic.


Now, all this is true, except for the occasions when it was spelled "mike". In those instances, it followed the rule of "there are no rules in music nor the English language".

John henry said...

Just to add my two cents to what others have said:

Ann's statement that it is generally not OK to shout someone down but it would be OK to shout down a Hitler.

Who the Hell are you to decide who gets to speak or not?

Would a Stalin (20-30mm murdered in his camps) or a Mao (40mm or so) be OK but not a Hitler (12mm)?

How about a Che Guevara? Bill Ayers? Larry King?

Where do you draw the line, Ann?

The mere idea that you think a line can be drawn is offensive in the extreme.

I know that there is no Constitutional issue here but it is doubly offensive to see a con law prof say this. You, more than most, should be all over protecting speech rights.

Rethink this please.

John Henry

John henry said...

Just to be clear, I think the microphone people were way out of line and should have been ejected.

John Henry

David said...

Robert Cook said...
The audience at large didn't seem in the least intimidated.


Maybe, but quite a few of them probably had taken their knives and forks quietly in hand. If you are not on alert when a large group of strangers start yelling, you are a damn fool. This time no one in the screaming group was violent. There are no guarantees about the next time.

What actually happened, Robert, is that the "audience at large" consisted of people who decided not to be provocative or to respond to a provocation. That is called good sense.

Being on alert for an attack from a group of yelling people is also good sense.

Robert Cook said...

"For you maybe. Who's got all the guns, idiot, and the ability to use them?"

That's what's scary!

David said...

Most people who tried to shout down Hitler, Stalin or Mao did it only once.

Frankly, it does not take a lot of guts to do call and response slogans at the Union League.

But I bet these "protestors" are super pleased with themselves tonight. Several may get laid on the strength of their heroism.

ampersand said...

And meanwhile, in Illinois, a Governor rejected by most of the state of Illinois, but elected on the always suspect votes of Cook County, signs a 67 % income tax hike (On the 99%) passed by a lame duck congress and nobody marches.

The state senate and congress overwhelmingly grant the electric monopoly 10 years of rate increases (on the 99%)and not a peep out of anyone.

The Illinois government increases the corporate tax rate then the governor passes out big time tax indulgences to big corporations to keep them from fleeing and not a single squeal.

Wanna trade governments Wisconsin?

damikesc said...

I know you are referring to the way the protesters cut off the speaker, but are you utterly blind to the ambiguity?

If everyone yells, no one can hear anything.

Chanting the same phrase over and over is not debate and dialogue.

When one speaker draws an audience, and other people drown that speaker out... if that goes on, no one will go out to hear speeches anymore. That is less speech.


I hear what you're saying, but before the 1960's, students weren't barred from really saying what they believed on a campus.

Now, we have students who work, fervently, to silence views they don't like. You have colleges led by former "Free Speechers" who silently support the students in their efforts to silence views they don't like...and to make uttering such phrases an offense nearly worthy of expulsion.

A lot of people still think that universities are open markets for open dialogue --- but they aren't. They still think conservatives aren't willing to listen to alternative viewpoints, but that ceased to be the case years ago.

As a society, we have Progressives who are growing less and less confidence in how correct they are and they seek to quiet anybody who might be able to point it out.

Anybody who works hard to silence dissent, to me, is somebody with no actual case to make on an issue.

Synova said...

Interesting about Illinois and California. New York passed a bunch of stuff as or more extreme than Wisconsin, too, didn't they?

It's going on all over, because State budgets have to balance, unlike the Feds. But Wisconsin takes the heat. Why?

When what Walker did is objectively less, why is Wisconsin the poster child? Is it just that, being Wisconsin, the problems weren't left to fester into a California sized disaster first?

I remember garage saying as much. That there wasn't actually a problem in Wisconsin to fix and that essentially Walker was just a mean hater.

So is it that?

Or is it a fear that taking care of matters before they develop into a disaster, in a good mid-Western responsibility sort of way, will be seen to work so effectively, that other battles in other states will have a harder time? Of course, this is perilously like wishing for hardship in the name of political gain.

Ann Althouse said...

"You know, I just realized how funny it is that Althouse complains about English spelling, word choice and pronunciation in the same post that she uses the word "jackassery"..."

My point of view is: What irritates me?

What would you call it if not jackassery?

Ann Althouse said...

Jackassarie?

Curious George said...

"BJM said...

And here's Garage's heroic Free Speachers in DC pushing a 78 yr old woman down the stairs...of course this is a DC reporter and a couple of dumb winger bitches, so they had it coming, right?"

Ha ha these assholes were surrounding people, and then when the people pushed the cry foul.

My favorite though is that they fucktards were surrounding cars, and finally someone just ran one of them over (4:19). They couldn't understand why the driver wasn't arrested.

Anonymous said...

@ Ann

They're Marxists. The idea for them isn't that they are violent, abusive or just plain jackholes.

The idea is that they haven't (yet) sent you to a gulag for "re-education".

So in their eyes they are being exceptionally nice to you.

Re-education camps; people get sent there all the time, nobody ever comes out smarter.

Curious George said...

"Synova said...
I remember garage saying as much. That there wasn't actually a problem in Wisconsin to fix and that essentially Walker was just a mean hater.

So is it that?" Uh, no. Wisconsin had a huge deficit that could no longer be balanced by Obama money via stimulus or raiding funds like the transportation, or stealing from the tobacco settlement. Even with this "creative Accounting", and a massive tax increase a few years ago, we were $3.6 billion short.

Jim Doyle, a two term Democrat, and author of this clusterfuck, decided not run in 2010. His choice would be to again massively raise taxes, or cut services and state employees. No way he could do that, so adios.

Madison is the mother ship of modern liberalism. PC was invented there. Speech codes. It's full of old hippies, smelly modern "progressives", and everything in between. These assholes by and large are Madisonians, not Wisconsiners.

As an aside, when your case includes Garage mahal facts...stop.

sorepaw said...

What's rude is believing that money should be able to buy off a democracy.

Ehh, Ritmo.

What is your scientific training?

What have you published, in the peer-reviewed literature of any scientific discipline?

Most of all, where are your data?

All you're doing is making a completely unsubstantiated normative statement.

The refusal to regulate campaign contributions and campaign advertising insures that there will be no self-regulation of the supposedly outrageous interruption that occurred here.

And now you're broadcasting a threat.

That's a whole lot of respect for empirical evidence that you're showing.

sorepaw said...

The fact that it doesn't guarantee bribery as a protected form of speech. Nor does it protect libel. Nor does it protect credible threats.

What do you have against using speech for non-criminal purposes?


Ritmo the Fake Scientist,

You are claiming that the First Amendment doesn't protect political speech.

On the grounds that a wide range of political speech of which you disapprove is speech used for a criminal purpose.

It's pretty clear that one of the reasons the Supreme Court ruled as it did was an admission from the Attorney General's side that books could be banned under McCain-Feingold.

If your goal is to silence political speech, forget about democracy. Dictatorship is what you need.

Craig said...

mic (sic)

sorepaw said...

Obviously you have problems with the concept of "balance", Jeff. If the NYT had been in the habit in 1963 of buying ad spots in every major television market around the country in order to push a political movement, rather than just report on and reflect the views of its subscribers in New York City in a printed medium with more limited influence, then the Supreme Court might have decided differently all those years back when.

Ritmo the Fake Scientist,

What part of "Congress shall make no law" dp you fail to understand?

But of course, you are probably one of those conservatives who don't recognize the passage of time and differing, let alone changed circumstances.

The First Amendment still says "Congress shall make no law." The passage of time has not erased that language.

Are there "changed circumstances" that, in your opinion, would require that the Constitution be considered suspended?

By the way, Mr. Fake Scientist, where are the data supporting your frequent refrain of "But of course, you are probably one of those conservatives who..."?

Craig said...

Jackassarie?

Does that rhyme with brasserie?

Michael Haz said...

Hi, it's me, Mike. Thought I'd Czech back and see how you're dewing.

Bob Loblaw said...

There is an anger building up out here about this kind of destruction of our right to hear a conservative speaker.

Yep. They're creating a situation where the cops will come in and club them down, and people will shrug and think "Well, they had it coming."

And then they'll cry and say "But you're not behaving in a civilized fashion," blissfully unaware of the irony.

Foobarista said...

A "nuke" is a nuclear weapon. A "nuc" (also pronounced nuke) is a nuclear reactor, as in "nuc boat", nuclear (powered) submarine.

(Submarines with on-board nuclear ICBM's are called "boomers".)

Kirk Parker said...

"Jackassarie? "

Huh? Haven't you ever been to Quebec?? It's "Jacqueassarie"!

rcommal said...

Eerie.

Kirk Parker said...

Michael Haz,

"Had I butt nude
Had I but seed
Would I have dude
The dids I deed?"

-Willard Espy

wv: traingal - what Althouse definitely is not.

rcommal said...

Man, based on how people here use the discipline of "scientific training," it's to puke (and to bring up serious questions with regard to those abusing it so). Sorepaw: I'm now understanding why your paw ought to be sore, and--maybe--should get more sore.

DEEBEE said...

While looking at the video I could not keep my eyes of the carotid artery of the bearded guy. What a wonderful target it made. AHHH the vampire in me still persists, even after 10/31

purplepenquin said...

Gov Jerry Brown, that icon of west-coast liberalism wants to institute cuts far more drastic than Governor Walker's

Not true...Brown isn't getting rid of collective bargaining.

Ya'll seem to ignore the fact that people weren't protesting at the Capitol 'cause Walker cut their pay...rather, it is because Walker made it illegal for workers to negotiate with the city/county/state that brought out an unprecedented number of protesters.

By making it illegal to have workplace conditions and safety rules as part of a contract, my Governor and the WIGop has made it more likely that me and my co-workers will get hurt...or worse...on the job.

Ritmo Re-Animated said...

Sorepaw:

Fuck off, get a life, and stop recycling yesterday's debates and your long-held grudges into places where they have no relevance.

You are the ultimate loser and really need to get a life, and a new object of internet obsession other than me.

Michael said...

Purplepenguin. It is not illegal for workers to negotiate their own salaries. Not in Wisconsin. Not anywhere in the US.

Bill Dalasio said...

Maybe the Union League is a little different in Chicago. In New York and Philadelphia, they are private clubs. What the hell is this rabble doing there?

purplepenquin said...

It is not illegal for workers to negotiate their own salaries

In Wisconsin, it is currently illegal for most workers (fire&police are currently exempt) to negotiate workplace conditions and safety issues with the city/county/state.

That, rather than any cuts in pay/benefits, is what caused a record number of protesters last Spring.

Alex said...

In Wisconsin, it is currently illegal for most workers (fire&police are currently exempt) to negotiate workplace conditions and safety issues with the city/county/state.

In principle why should government employees have the right to organize? They are paid by taxpayers and as such they have to abide by restrictions the people put in the law. Also the unions shot themselves in the foot by being WAY too greedy over the years. Not willing to cut back in a recession is sheer insanity. Unions come across as parasitical entities to most reasonable people. The age of heroic unions are way over...

sorepaw said...

Fuck off, get a life, and stop recycling yesterday's debates and your long-held grudges into places where they have no relevance.

You are the ultimate loser and really need to get a life, and a new object of internet obsession other than me.


In other words, O Mighty Ritmo the Fake Scientist, you take no responsibility for anything that you've said, more than 15 minutes after you've said it. By the time 20 minutes have passed, it's "yesterday's debate" or "1970s polemics" or whatever you've chosen as your dismissal du jour.

Therefore, it is safe to conclude that you are a Fake Scientist.

Which, I daresay, is a fairly desperate form of loser.

Because otherwise you would by now have taken one many opportunities to disclose what your training was, and what you've published in the peer-reviewed literature.

Take your poop-and-run operation somewhere else.

Synova said...

"In Wisconsin, it is currently illegal for most workers (fire&police are currently exempt) to negotiate workplace conditions and safety issues with the city/county/state.

That, rather than any cuts in pay/benefits, is what caused a record number of protesters last Spring.
"

Did it?

Or is that an "in retrospect" sort of thing? I honestly don't think that anyone was concerned that suddenly they'd be forced to work in unsafe environments. The power of unions to rake in ever more cash into their own coffers was threatened, and their power and relevance was threatened. But I'd have to see some evidence where there is any, any at all, adverse impact to actual safe working conditions for actual workers. Did OSHA suddenly cease to exist? Or did teachers lose their ability to dictate cafeteria menus?

I'm sure the ones who still have their jobs don't mind that so much.

sorepaw said...

one *of* many opportunities...

Alex said...

But I'd have to see some evidence where there is any, any at all, adverse impact to actual safe working conditions for actual workers. Did OSHA suddenly cease to exist? Or did teachers lose their ability to dictate cafeteria menus?

They're upset that their anal rape of the WI taxpayers has been interrupted.

Synova said...

"Ya'll seem to ignore the fact that people weren't protesting at the Capitol 'cause Walker cut their pay...rather, it is because Walker made it illegal for workers to negotiate with the city/county/state that brought out an unprecedented number of protesters."

You seem to ignore the fact that the unions claimed they'd accept cuts and adjustments, but no one believed their non-binding and unofficial assurances. Not for a moment. Particularly as each individual local government and school board would have had to deal with their local situation and union which wouldn't have to abide by any general statements from anyone else that they really would take those cuts willingly and happily and without being forced.

So they were forced to by Walker making sure that those local authorities actually had authority.

"By making it illegal to have workplace conditions and safety rules as part of a contract, my Governor and the WIGop has made it more likely that me and my co-workers will get hurt...or worse...on the job."

No, they haven't. The change in a law does nothing without an implemented change in safety policy. Point to a budget cut involving safety precautions.

purplepenquin said...

Did OSHA suddenly cease to exist?

You remind me of the folks who say we don't need Concealed Carry 'cause the police will protect ya.

Sounds good on paper, but reality is much different...

Ritmo Re-Animated said...

Look, everybody! SoreButt thinks that scientific training is necessary for an opinion on whether the NYT has as much influence over the political process in 1963 as multiple television markets across the country do today. Hahahha!

Well, since he's a fake author (who doesn't know the difference between an opinion and a finding of fact), it's not surprising that he's this certain of things about which he doesn't know jack shit.

He's a tribute to his cause, whichever one that is. My guess: Cyber-Crushes.

Alex said...

You remind me of the folks who say we don't need Concealed Carry 'cause the police will protect ya.

The police always arrive after you're dead to pick up the pieces. That's a bogus argument.

purplepenquin said...

The police always arrive after you're dead to pick up the pieces. That's a bogus argument.

Exactly! Just like OSHA isn't on every job site, and instead usually arrives after someone gets hurt/killed.

Alex said...

Exactly! Just like OSHA isn't on every job site, and instead usually arrives after someone gets hurt/killed.

So what keeps workers safe if OSHA isn't on hand 24/7? The goodwill of the capitalist pigs?

Kirk Parker said...

Alex,

"So what keeps workers safe if OSHA isn't on hand 24/7? The goodwill of the capitalist pigs? "

Dude--it's the fact that the workers are getting 100%-paid benefits!

Duh!!!

wv: sumsho -- reaction of out-of-state people to this year's Madison follies.

purplepenquin said...

So what keeps workers safe if OSHA isn't on hand 24/7?

Organized labor has a huge part in keeping workers safe. An example is when a road guy asked one of my co-workers to climb a truss. When asked where the safety harnesses were, the response was "Just get up there now or you can go home now." We kinda just looked at him in shock while his boss ran over to remind him that the workers were members of a local union and he couldn't treat us like day-laborers picked up outside of Home Depot. Needless to say, a harness was quickly found and everyone continued working...in a safe and prudent manner.

Kirk Parker said...

Purple,

Wow, what kind of barbaric state do you live in?

Kristin Noll-Marsh said...

PurplePenquin said: "The loss of collective bargaining makes it more likely than me and my co-workers will be hurt and/or killed on the job. I'm not just going to extremes with that...safety rules & workplace conditions are one of the main reasons my union first organized back-in-the-day. What we do can be dangerous...even deadly sometimes. By making it illegal to have those issues in a contract with the city/county/state, Walker & WIGOP have made it more likely that someone won't be coming home from work at the end of the day."

You do realize that the collective bargaining changes were made for PUBLIC UNIONS (government employees) and not private unions, correct? And the new collective bargaining in Wisconsin has absolutely no effect on workplace safety - that would still be controlled by OSHA. Nothing in those laws has been changed.

The vast majority of those in Wisconsin did not side with the Madison protesters - most of the protesters were state employees (and their misguided friends and family)ticked off because they had to feel the recession like everyone else instead of getting the taxpayer buffer. The rest were paid protesters bused in from out of state by special interest (power and money-hungry unions.) And everyone seems to like to ignore the fact that his changes are WORKING. Many, many school districts who were expecting budget shortfalls are balancing this year and teachers who were going to be laid off are working instead.

Private unions are one thing - that is between the employee and the company to keep the company safe, honest and fair. But public unions are ridiculous - the unions use taxpayer funds to get in their elected officials and then "negotiate" with them for their wages and benefits - all on the taxpayer's dime. (And most taxpayers aren't in government unions, so only a small portion of the citizens benefit from this arrangement.) Private unions don't get to choose their own boss and then have that boss beholden to them! It's essentially "we'll use union (taxpayer) money to get you into office and then you give us whatever we ask for - even if it costs taxpayers' higher taxes to keep our wages and benefits better than their own."

Walker may have "taken away" from the union employees, but he "gave back" to the rest of his constituents - who are the majority. And those he supposedly "took" from are probably going to see a lot more money in their pocket now that they aren't required to pay unions in order to keep their government jobs.

Walker did a difficult thing, but he did the right thing.

Kristin Noll-Marsh said...

I seemed to have missed the last posts here, so just wanted to add:

Regarding safety, etc., Wisconsin also has some of the best civil service laws in the country and the budget bill was also re-written to address local governments that are not currently covered. Sec. 60.0509(1m) Wis. Stats, mandates to local governments that a grievance policy be initiated to address employee termination, discipline and workplace safety.

Civic service laws aren't as extensive as what the unions demanded, but they still provide job security and perks nicer than what is usually found in the private sector.

I have a hard time buying that the inability to demand a better workplace environment than the rest of us enjoy (sorry, no more 15 minute union-mandated "rest" breaks every 2 hours) will suddenly result in the elimination of all common sense and workplace safety practices.

Healy said...

I thought this was awesome. If anyone deserves to be followed around by an angry screaming mob until he gets a facial tic, it's Scott Walker. Scumbag

Elroy said...

Mic is short for Microphone. Are all of you really that ignorant of the origin of the term? Seriously?

Carin Morrell said...

It's "mic" as in "microphone." Not "Mike" as in "Michael." The people are checking his microphone, or "mic." But nice try.

SweatBee said...

For that matter, there's no d in "refrigerator," so where do we get off calling something a fridge when it's obviously a 'frige' [both apostrophes required]?

Because English spelling rules would require the i in "frige" to be /Ä«/. Therefore, the phonogram "dge" is used to represent /j/ after a single vowel that represents its short sound, in this case /i/.

(see also words like drudge, wedge, bridge, knowledge...)

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