Say the Bloomberg editors.
... It makes economic sense. The president should think big -- upward of $100 billion a year for at least two years...
Unfortunately, a major public works program doesn’t make political sense right now. Republicans have served notice that they intend to stand pat against new federal spending...
The editors recommend a deal:
Obama should temporarily suspend Davis-Bacon, then ask Congress to repeal the act and let the market decide wage rates, as it does for every other industry....
Such a deal would stretch federal money, resulting in more jobs, especially for less-skilled workers who have been out of work for more than six months. And it would finally allow Obama to have a Works Progress Administration-style program that’s been missing from his recovery plans.
I can't picture the Republicans accepting this. And does the public actually want a Works Progress Administration-style program?
Posts
165 comments:
Is this public works program going to be full of those shovel ready jobs we were promised?
It would certainly confirm that this is a depression. I wonder of he wants that image? What he could do is dismantle the EPA regulations since he was inaugurated but he won't. Ditto for the defacto moratorium on drilling.
How about yanking the various moritoria on oil drilling and exploration?
Seriously; open the gulf back up and wala, jobs!
It's been missing from his recovery plans since we're not living in the 1930s anymore.
Didn't he do the shovel-ready thing already? A failure as everyone knows. As this will be as it's dead before it ever arrives.
Unanticipated problem;
I sincerely doubt that Obama will enforce citizenship status on those employed in the "public works program."
In other words, I think the net result will be to employ illegals (Mexicans).
If it leads to the repeal of Davis-Bacon, I could get behind it.
The POTUS is a GENIUS. He is an All-Time MacArthur Genius Winner.
He has the midas gold touch.
No matter what he does, he will hit a home-run in his speech.
Why? GOP will self-destruct. Their current candidates (minus Romney) have nothing to demonstrate, no deliverables, no nothing. They are like vapor-ware in silicon valley venture clubs.
Mark my words: Obama's victory in Nov. 2012, starts after Labor Day in 2011.
You guys know nothing. His team plays the end game. The GOP is about the first move. What a joke the GOP is? I am deeply ashamed.
The Davis-Bacon is the holy grail for Big Labor, I'll be astounded if it gets touched in any way by this president.
OK, first I clicked through to make sure this wasn't the Onion, and Ann wasn't sneaking a curve in on us.
On the merits: Laughingly stupid.
I can't picture the Republicans accepting this. And does the public actually want a Works Progress Administration-style program?
As an independent, I can't speak for Republicans. What nobody wants to see, save the garage mahals of the world, is a cozy, overpaid rewards program for people whose votes can be bought.
Obama had a chance to do this in 2009, instead he chose the Stimulus Slush Fund option.
Historic preservationists still study New Deal projects. They left an indeliable mark on our landscape. There will be no such studies 50 years from now with regard to Stimulus projects.
Say what you want about New Deal policies, those who did WPA/CCC projects wanted to work for a living. People won't work such jobs of making big rocks into little rocks if unemployment pays better and lets you sit on the couch.
Yes. A Hoover-type dam on the Mississippi and all the workers needed for both dam construction, as well as all the lifeguards needed for the thousands of miles of beaches it will create.
That's consistent with his administration's logic in other cases, so I can certainly see it going forward via executive fiat, Congress and the prols be damned.
Another good jobs program I think he would probably see as worthwhile is a full invasion of Canada. Plenty of military slots to open up, lots of armaments jobs, etc, plus the benefit of moving the capital to Toronto.
Completely consistent.
As George Will pointed out on "This Week" this past Sunday, the all powerful snail darter will prevent a Hoover Dam like project. Let an environmental extremist discover that a snail darter might be harmed, and the project will end before it even begins.
There is no way Obama will be able to suspend Davis-Bacon. Public sector unions own the Democratic Party.
Because nothing says American success like freshly painted fire hydrants.
(Meanwhile, foreign companies continue to de-list on the U.S. stock exchanges to rid themselves of the onerous regulatory and reporting burdens of the U.S. government.)
Hey Americas Politico, didn't you vow to go away at some point? A person's word ought to mean something to him even if it doesn't mean anything to anyone else. That tells me a lot about you and your integrity.
Because nothing says American success like freshly painted fire hydrants.
(Meanwhile, foreign companies continue to de-list on the U.S. stock exchanges to rid themselves of the onerous regulatory and reporting burdens of the U.S. government.)
Meanwhile, foreign companies build the fire hydrants, the paint brushes, and the paint. The 8-hour job complete with three guys to do it (1 supervisor, 1 painter, and one guy to fetch donuts every 90 minutes) are 100% American.
New golf courses?
Privacy fences in Martha's Vineyard?
Fore more years!
In the 1930's the local WPA administrators could operate in a very freewheeling fashion. Get a grant, start people working, and design as they went.
This is not how it works today. It takes a year or two to get a grant approved, then go through the selection process for a design firm, then there is preliminary studies and design to get a basis for the Environmental Assessment, then public hearings, etc., revise the preliminary plans, and get environmental approval, then go to work to develop final plans and specifications and advertise for bids, accept a bid, and give Notice to Proceed.
Even if Obama gets re-elected, he will be out of office and forgotten before any actual physucal work even gets started.
Let an environmental extremist discover that a snail darter might be harmed, and the project will end before it even begins.
If Barack Obama would stand up for resource conservation instead of resource preservation, he could win a lot more independent votes.
Sarah Palin is already on it though, so there isn't much middle ground left.
Pay the newly homeless to build tarp shanties in multistate Obamavilles!
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Obama doesn't inspire anybody who actually does stuff. He inspires lay-abouts and stuffed shirts in ivory towers. All the inspiration in the world won't get them to do anything productive. How about this for leadership and inspiration: let's rebuild the world trade center in 12 months. I don't even care if we spend government money to do it (I can't believe I said that).
"Say what you want about New Deal policies, those who did WPA/CCC projects wanted to work for a living. People won't work such jobs of making big rocks into little rocks if unemployment pays better and lets you sit on the couch."
Which is genius, really. It works as both a response to the economy as a well as justifying continuing illegal immigration. Jobs that Americans won't do can be filled by others who do still want to work. And since all those billions of dollars have been invested we have to find people to do the work.
I share the future (Nov. 2012 outcome) as a public announcement and a professional courtesy. I cannot help to be a good person.
See http://donsingleton.blogspot.com/2011/08/new-public-works-program.html
I believe the Republicans are much more likely to support a plan that would spread already approved federal spending over more out of work people, than Obama is likely to risk offending Labor by calling for a repeal of Davis Bacon. Labor Unions do not care their people are out of work, as long as enough are employed to pay the dues that keep them employed, but repealing Davis Bacon would hurt them as much as not having dues deducted directly from the Union Members paychecks.
I don't even care if we spend government money to do it (I can't believe I said that).
Echo.
What a bunch of stupid sons of bitches.
Our small business will have to pay something like $100,000 in federal income tax this year. If we didn't have to pay this, I could have employed another person in marketing, and used the rest for a downpayment on a machine tool that would have employed about one other person to run the jobs I'd get from the work of that person in marketing.
Instead, they'll use this $100,000 to employ maybe 0.5 people, to dig a hole so that someone else can fill it in.
It depends on what the meaning of the word "jobs" is. From the point of view of the Administration, good jobs have one or more of the following characteristics:
1. Union,
2. Public Service,
3. Bureaucratic,
4. Davis-Bacon Pay Scale,
5. Green,
6. Associated with a favored constituency,
7. Government funded.
Bad jobs have one or more of the following characteristics:
1. Non-Union,
2. Red State, particularly Texas,
3. Profit Oriented,
4. Not Green,
5. Having any adverse effect at all on the environment,
5. Helping to make a rich capitalist even richer,
6. Privately funded.
I expect that the jobs announcement will focus exclusively on "good" jobs.
$100 B is chump change.
I propose that Warren Buffet pay for this out of pocket.
He surely loves to turn the Great Recession into the Great Depression. Now we need a Hitler and a Third Reich to pull us out.
This is what happens when you let academics run the country: They try to solve economic problems with history books. Their only point of reference is FDR, so they're recreating FDR's policies for today.
That must be why Obama's EPA is shutting down everyone's power plants. The administration can re-electrify the country! That was pretty popular.
(If I were a Jewish butcher in New York, I'd be terrified right about now. He's coming after you!)
Its a good idea as long as the work is environmentally friendly. It could replace unemployment benefits for people who are capable of work.
The things Obama could do to help stimulate the economy are the very things he is not wired to consider, Basically that the best thing the federal government can do is less. Less regulation, less spending, less taxes, less speeches, less.
As a start, both energy and agriculture should be freed up to produce what they are arguably the best in the world at doing and that has an export ready market. A no brainer.
Obama feels it's important to demonstrate that no hope of recovery will happen on his watch.
Ella, is it a good idea if we have one guy dig a hole, and the next fill it in? That wouldn't release too much dust, would it?
"Its a good idea as long as the work is environmentally friendly. It could replace unemployment benefits for people who are capable of work."
Considering the track record of green jobs in this country, it would employ about a 1000 people for the 100 billion. So, no, it would not help unemployment one bit.
As some have said already, drill again and loosen EPA regs and you will have jobs galore. Oh and scrap Obamacare. That's all you need.
Sounds like the plan he pretended with the media's help that the first stimulus was supposed to be.
But God help him if he keeps dellusions going about Bullet Trains and Green Jobs.
That stuff wont help him.
The public expects real transportation expenditures on roads, bridges and airports.
He cannot fool them again. But he may try.
Maybe the first job could be to finish building the border wall in the South? That would be a win-win for the Repubs and the Dems!
Oh and scrap Obamacare. That's all you need.
You need to add Sar-Ox and the Wall Street reform to get a full-metal renaissance.
Coketown said:
"This is what happens when you let academics run the country: They try to solve economic problems with history books. Their only point of reference is FDR, so they're recreating FDR's policies for today."
That is what Ithink whenever the talking heads suggest Obama do something Clinton did or Reagan did.
Stimulus III.
"... upgrade the nation’s crumbling roads, bridges, schools and transit systems, and put unemployed Americans, especially the 6 million who have been jobless for six months or more, back to work."
I saw somewhere it was supposed to be "guidelines" more than specifics.
Just like ZeroCare.
Or The Code.
Paddy O said...
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
No, that's stupidity.
ic said...
He surely loves to turn the Great Recession into the Great Depression. Now we need a Hitler and a Third Reich to pull us out.
"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"
You mean WWII?
"You need to add Sar-Ox and the Wall Street reform to get a full-metal renaissance."
Ahh, a straw-man, love it.
Obama may be praying Hurricane Irene is ginormous and annihilates a big area of the country so he can rebuild. Win-Win!
No, that's stupidity.
It's insanity if you think it's going to provide positive results when nothing but negatives have happened before.
Republicans should only do this in substitution for another extension of unemployment benefits, such that only those whose unemployment benefits have expired are eligible for the public works jobs.
And does the public actually want a Works Progress Administration-style program?
Depends which section of the Public you're speaking of. IN the midwestern Children of the Corn kountry, probably not--they'd consider it another commie-yankee plot.
But in states that matter- CA, NY, IL, OH, even Texass and the dirty South--they'd probably go for it. Their homies be needin' the work.
But in states that matter- CA, NY, IL, OH, even Texass and the dirty South--they'd probably go for it. Their homies be needin' the work.
Quit sucking on the crack pipe, J.
Obama will not stand for citizenship checks to make sure that the homies are actually certified U.S.
""President Barack Obama is likely to propose a new public works program in a post-Labor Day speech.""
That's a conservative nightmare right there. New jobs, that is.
Maybe Obama instead should announce we're invading and occupying the U.S., so we can spend some money on infrastructure here. Win win!
"Texass and the dirty South"
Actually, both those areas are doing pretty good.
That's a conservative nightmare right there. New jobs, that is.
You're such a fool, garbage.
There are no new jobs here.
Zero.
Heh heh. Touched a nerve , Tom-tom tweeker? Better just STFU and do Reason a favor.
Tho' even mentally ill pedophiles and tweekers such as you, Shouting Gacy, might get some road work job. At least like work release
piss test time klan grrls.
"That's a conservative nightmare right there. New jobs, that is."
Please, please, please, let him thrust the nightmare of a 100 billion taxpayer-funded, deficit increasing jobs program on the voting public.
It's a nightmare alright, but for the Dems.
Tho' even mentally ill pedophiles and tweekers such as you, Shouting Gacy, might get some road work job. At least like work release
I love it, J, when you take another hit of crank and launch into the Socratic Method.
maybe the president should propose a plan that could actually pass Congress. Nah. He'd rather put partisan politics ahead of country.
"... And does the public actually want a Works Progress Administration-style program?.."
Um...wasn't that shovel ready and $800 billion ago?
"less-skilled workers"
We have free public libraries all over the god damn place where people can brush up on new skills.
I'm sick of the less-skilled.
Unless they are literally shovel ready jobs, the think is another President vacation wet dream. All these construction jobs are people running machines. The construction companies will be reluctant to buy machines for two years of government contracts.
Tom-tom--you're too stupid and untalented for ad hominems, misrep and clever insults, loser. jus STFU.
For that matter, you're pushing 70, loser. Maybe time to ....exit, stage left. Kevorkian style, trash. Heh heh.
Ever stop and consider he wants the FDR image just so he can light up a cigarette in public?
"... He surely loves to turn the Great Recession into the Great Depression. Now we need a Hitler and a Third Reich to pull us out..."
Actually it was the Imperial Japanese Navy.
Remember the home insulation program in the "Stimulus" bill?
Ballyhooed because it could be put into effect immediately and would not require an especially skilled workforce.
So, after a year - actually a little longer, I think - someone asked how come hardly any of the appropriated money had been spent, and they went to inquiring and found that no actual work had been done because the Federal Agency in charge was still working on writing the regulations under which the work would be done.
Then I guess everybody lost interest, since no more has been heard of this program. Perhaps the money has been re-allocated, or the localities just spent it on whatever, or it is still just sitting there - or all 3. I am pretty sure that even if the Agency has finished writing, reviewed, adopted, and published the regulations,the end result is not anything the people this program was intended to help would want to get trapped in.
Thomas - will you stop feeding the damn trolls?
The only shovel ready project is digging a hole large enough to dump the entire administration in.
God help us.
wv: monsta
Christopher said...
Is this public works program going to be full of those shovel ready jobs we were promised?
8/23/11 11:22 AM
The only thing that Obama and the democrat-communists have shovel ready is the bullshit.
Hey if we are going to go through yet another round of Obama's infinite spending list at least make it so everyone on welfare or unemployment actually has to work on constructions jobs (preferable out in the elements) in order to collect. Do that and get rid of Davis-Bacon and force the states and local governments to get rid of their equivalents and I might even consider voting for him. You can betcha President Palin will do this and more like banning federal civil service unions.
will you stop feeding the damn trolls?
Ditto. They go back under their poorly constructed bridges if you don't throw meat their way.
Here's a public works program for you:
Repeal the minimum wage *and* Davis-Bacon. Davis-Bacon would make Mickey Kaus so ecstatic that he might just have an aneurysm on the spot, and minimum wage would unleash a hell of a lot of inactive labor. We're a nation with double-digit real unemployment where the alleys and sidewalks are full of weeds and the neighborhoods full of delayed maintenance.
NPR was *pouring* scorn on this morning's deregulation flyer from the White House. They found some conservative or neolib economists to just tear into the proposal as superficial and trivial, pointing out that it's Obamacare and Dodds-Frank which is the looming regulatory threat.
The plan.
Propose a public works jobs bill that won't pass and would not help if it did.
Then campaign repeatedly saying "I proposed a massive job creating bill, but the evil Repub's voted it down because they can't put the people above politics."
Rinse and repeat endlessly.
Words.. empty words from an empty presidency.
How about instead the government stop spending and taxing employers and LET THEM HIRE PEOPLE.
Simple, no?
"It would certainly confirm that this is a depression."
You nailed it, Mike K.
There are any number of good plans out there on what to do, but Obama WILL NOT DO any of them because his only concern is to complete the progressive agenda of changing our nation.
Milton Friedman once visited a third world country that had embarked on an ambitious public works program. He expressed his surprise that there were few modern, mechanized, earth moving implements being used. Instead, there were hoards of people using common shovels to move the dirt. Of course, Friedman was puzzled by the enormous inefficiency, and so he asked the project manager to explain himself.
The project manager replied, "this project should not be evaluated based on its economic merits. The goal is to give people jobs. So the correct way to measure the success of the program is by how many people are employed."
To which Friedman replied without missing a beat, "then why don't you take their shovels away and give them spoons?"
"... That's a conservative nightmare right there. New jobs, that is.".."
That line of snark might have been more effective if the first $800 billion he pissed away had resulted in, you know, jobs.
A problem with public works today is that we get so little to show for the work.
A standard CCC outhouse cost $18. Today, a two-holer costs about $300,000. Without Davis-Bacon, perhasp it would be $280,000.?
The fact is, we can't really build public works anymore. They've become too expensive and it takes too long. And it's not just snail darters, it's the whole regulatory apparat.
So, we may as well admire the public works of yesteryear, for we're sure not going to build anything on that grand scale again.
Um...wasn't that shovel ready and $800 billion ago?
You're off by 600 billion. 200 billion was spent on infrastructure type projects.
That line of snark might have been more effective if the first $800 billion he pissed away had resulted in, you know, jobs.
-- CBO: Between 800,000 jobs and 2.4 million jobs.
-- IHS/Global Insight: 1.25 million jobs
-- Macroeconomic Advisers: 1.06 million jobs
-- Moody's economy.com: 1.59 million jobs
link.
That's great, GM. So tell me again why the stimulus was supposed to keep us under 8% unemployment when it's now been over 9% for months with real unemployment much higher?
If all of a sudden if to draw your unemployment check you had to show up three days a week to do some sort of manual labor to rebuild a park, pick up trash along a highway or some other job that would spiff up the public landscape, I bet there would be a whole lot less people drawing an unemployment check
The new public works program:
Obama and Biden resign.
Two new jobs right there.
The Congress should pass a WPA program in exchange for some other elimination.
Then we can see how much of a failure the WPA program is.
"- CBO: Between 800,000 jobs and 2.4 million jobs.
-- IHS/Global Insight: 1.25 million jobs
-- Macroeconomic Advisers: 1.06 million jobs
-- Moody's economy.com: 1.59 million jobs"
I had no idea how well the country was doing. Barry is a shoo-in.
So tell me again why the stimulus was supposed to keep us under 8% unemployment
Who was saying that?
How about this idea
Have the Fed buy mortgages directly from banks or Remics, and then the FEd can charge off the mortgages to their fair market value to allow the holders to refinance. This would allow underwater home owners to get back to par and give them the ability to refinance and sell their home without foreclosure. The fed can offset the losses on the writedowns with the interest payments they are earning from Treasuries.
The Fed can then offer mortgages to prime borrowers at very low interest rates - say 1%. However, the mortgages would only be 15 year mortgages. The Fed can fund these mortgages with the excess deposits they are currently getting from banks or by printing money. A 15 year mortgage at 1% has the same payment as a 30 year mortgage at 6%.
This program would pay down private sector debt at a much faster pace, creating a better growth environment in the future.
The administration itself, as reported by none other than that conservative rag, Time magazine.
"... You're off by 600 billion. 200 billion was spent on infrastructure type projects..."
Ah, so the other half trillion stimulated what....
-- "...CBO: Between 800,000 jobs and 2.4 million jobs..."
Whew! Just think wed be at 15% unemployment without that stimulus!
What this nation needs is another Obama speech.
"Let me be clear..."
The administration itself, as reported by none other than that conservative rag, Time magazine
No link?
.
The problem is that Obama would not use the money to create wealth (think Hoover Dam, interstate highways) but to destroy wealth (cash for clunkers, passenger train boondoggles).
.
Another good jobs program I think he would probably see as worthwhile is a full invasion of Canada.
One problem with that idea is that the President prefers to fight with unmanned drones. So prolly not as good a jobs program as you might think.
Barry's down to 38% . . . someone needs to tell the ignorant masses about all those jobs he's created.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx
It's just a quick google away, GM. It was at the head of a very large number of hits. Are you suggesting, san link, that the Obama administration did not make these claims? You don't remember them saying anything about unemployment if the stimulus package didn't get passed?
So prolly not as good a jobs program as you might think.
That depends on if you make, fly, repair, rearm, or refengshui unmanned drones.
Are all theunemployed people in the construction industry?
"As George Will pointed out on "This Week" this past Sunday, the all powerful snail darter will prevent a Hoover Dam like project."
Yeah, that ad for MSNBC where Rachel Maddow is in front of the Hoover Dam and a big windmill farm is a fucking joke. They're the ones who never let anything like that get built.
"... So tell me again why the stimulus was supposed to keep us under 8% unemployment
Who was saying that?..."
You're kidding....tell me you're kidding.
We should send the unemployed back to school to become diversity trainers, EPA enforcers, snail darter counters, flash mob apologists, sufficient-minorities-in-the-photograph monitors, and earthquake-in-New-York-and-DC predictors.
You're kidding....tell me you're kidding.
Feel free to show us the link. Who said it?
Here you go.
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1910208,00.html
Why wouldn't the Republicans favor getting rid of Davis-Bacon? It's a great idea.
Now, should they approve spending more money? No. But making the existing expenditures go farther? that would be great.
We should send the unemployed back to school to become diversity trainers, EPA enforcers, snail darter counters, flash mob apologists, sufficient-minorities-in-the-photograph monitors, and earthquake-in-New-York-and-DC predictors.
Diversity is our greatest strength!
"... You don't remember them saying anything about unemployment if the stimulus package didn't get passed?..."
I think the partisan hacks don't remember a lot of things Obama promised. Some memories are painful.
GM
Read the administration's own Romer/Bernstein report. Try page four.
I'll ask you again. Do you not remember those claims? Did you hear nothing about unemployment projections if the stimulus weren't passed? You don't even need links to answer those two questions.
"$100 B is chump change.
I propose that Warren Buffet pay for this out of pocket."
This is a fucking brilliant idea. The man wants to pay more taxes for the good of the country. Here's his chance.
"Who was saying that?"
'When Obama signed the stimulus, the most recent economic statistics (for January 2009) showed a national unemployment rate of 7.8 percent. Obama's economic advisers had predicted the stimulus would keep the national unemployment rate below 8 percent.'
- Terrence P. Jeffrey, "28 Months Later, Obama Says Recovery's 'Going To Take Time.' (CNSNews.com, 6/12/11)
You cannot possibly be this stupid.
"Maybe the first job could be to finish building the border wall in the South?"
Another good idea. I hope President Double-Dip is reading this.
I think the partisan hacks don't remember a lot of things Obama promised.
Obama never made that promise. It was a projection from two of his advisers:
"It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error," the report states. "There is the more fundamental uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program. Our estimates of economic relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly in any given episode. Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity."
There's also a footnote that goes along with the chart that states: "Forecasts of the unemployment rate without the recovery plan vary substantially. Some private forecasters anticipate unemployment rates as high as 11% in the absence of action."
Between 800,000 jobs and 2.4 million jobs.
-- IHS/Global Insight: 1.25 million jobs
-- Macroeconomic Advisers: 1.06 million jobs
-- Moody's economy.com: 1.59 million jobs
So tell us, stupid, how many of these "jobs" are permanent?
Oh, none.
Never mind.
garage mahal said...
Obama never made that promise. It was a projection from two of his advisers:
Hysterical.
And Biden predicted about 500,000 jobs a month.
Hang you hat on that, clown.
Obama never made that promise. It was a projection from two of his advisers
And they are not part of the administration? Slice hairs much?
So tell us, stupid, how many of these "jobs" are permanent?
I thought you had all the answers Einstein. Let's hear the Daily Jaytard Economic Lowdown, champ.
"- CBO: Between 800,000 jobs and 2.4 million jobs
You could drive Obama's bus tour motorcade through that hole.
It is funny you're posting this as if it has some meaning.
Of course as has been demonstrated over & over again, you're too stupid to understand what the CBO actually said.
Hint: jobs having been created or saved.
Saved is not in any way objective or verifable.
And you're still a moron.
garage mahal said...
I thought you had all the answers Einstein. Let's hear the Daily Jaytard Economic Lowdown, champ.
Zero.
None.
Hint: building a bridge isn't a permanent job, you abject imbecile.
But it is funny people like you pretend that they are.
"Jobs" to you are temporary government spending.
And you're still a moron.
I suggest, GM, that you and yours get used to rhetorical tap dancing. If the GOP puts up even a mildly annoying attack puppy, they will be on the defensive from November to November.
The plan.
"Propose a public works jobs bill that won't pass and would not help if it did.
Then campaign repeatedly saying "I proposed a massive job creating bill, but the evil Repub's voted it down because they can't put the people above politics.""
Of course that's what's going on.
"Obama never made that promise. It was a projection from two of his advisers"
Oh, brother.
"- CBO: Between 800,000 jobs and 2.4 million jobs"
This figure include jobs "saved", right?
Yeah, that ad for MSNBC where Rachel Maddow is in front of the Hoover Dam and a big windmill farm is a fucking joke. They're the ones who never let anything like that get built.
Is she wearing glasses in the ad or is she spec free?
No glasses? Then it's fake like her show.
Real Rachel wears huge nerdy glasses.
"... Obama never made that promise. It was a projection from two of his advisers:.."
Lol!!!!
It wasn't me!!! Blame them!!!!!!
Priceless.
Garage: "That's a conservative nightmare right there. New jobs, that is."
I cant think of anything better than new private sector jobs and nothing worse than more govt. I somehow think we got along fine with the government we had two years ago or ten. We do not need more "help."
Other than that the statement by Garage is vile on top of stupid.
Yeah, that ad for MSNBC where Rachel Maddow is in front of the Hoover Dam and a big windmill farm is a fucking joke. They're the ones who never let anything like that get built.
Cheers to that. I wonder if Maddow (or Obama...) understands that people died building the Hoover Dam, not to mention that unions weren't allowed to participate.
Oh, brother.
We went from "Obama promised" to the truth: a report written by two of his advisers with heavy disclaimers. Never ceases to amaze the howlers that come from right wingers on the stimulus and the ACA. If you have to lie about it, it doesn't say much for your argument.
Lol!!!!
Laugh it up funny boy. You were wrong about the amount spent on shovel projects, wrong about the jobs, and wrong about who claimed the effects of the bill. But, that makes you perfectly suited for a right wing blog commenter. You have that going for ya!
I watched this program on the building of Hoover Dam, where a worker on the project was interviewed. He was asked about the claim that X number of workers were buried in it (i.e. they didn't retrieve their bodies). His response was, "That's ridiculous. We fished eveybody out. They would have ruined the concrete!"
"We went from "Obama promised" to the truth: a report written by two of his advisers with heavy disclaimers."
This is why everybody thinks you're dishonest.
Falsifiable lie, right here in this thread, GM.
We went from...
That's great, GM. So tell me again why the stimulus was supposed to keep us under 8% unemployment when it's now been over 9% for months with real unemployment much higher?
That's where it started. Please show otherwise.
"... Laugh it up funny boy. You were wrong about the amount spent on shovel projects, wrong about the jobs, and wrong about who claimed the effects of the bill. But, that makes you perfectly suited for a right wing blog commenter..."
You're right garage, Obama pushed a spending bill based upon advice from his top economic advisors that was supposed to stimulate the economy and create jobs, it did neither and I'm the one who is wrong.
Now that's funny.
This is why everybody thinks you're dishonest.
"I think the partisan hacks don't remember a lot of things Obama promised. Some memories are painful."
8/23/11 1:33 PM
If he wanted to stimulate economic growth and create jobs and just help america... He would resign.
Nice try, but that's bullshit. It didn't start with that quote. It started with my question.
"... "I think the partisan hacks don't remember a lot of things Obama promised. Some memories are painful.".."
And ill stand by that too. I'm not going to absolve him from what his advisors told him if he then turns around and acts on that advice.
There was once a Democratic president who said the buck stops with him but you seem content with one who finds it easier to blame someone, anyone other than himself whose self proclaimed policies have screwed things up worse than before.
My Dad told me that WPA stood for "We Piddle Around".
I'd say we already have a huge program like that. It's called the Federal Government.
Obama pushed a spending bill based upon advice from his top economic advisors that was supposed to stimulate the economy and create jobs, it did neither and I'm the one who is wrong.
*facepalm*
I just showed you a link that proved otherwise. Is it possible NOT to stimulate the economy or create any jobs by pumping 800 billion into it? That's your position, for real?
If it is funded through the accumulation of debt, as were the past programs, then unless we realize real economic growth to replace the virtual economy they are manufacturing, this latest effort will further contribute to the crises.
Unfortunately, there is no indication that the economy will grow by over 10% annually (and more will be necessary if they sustain their current rate of spending). There is also no indication that they are willing to curtail illegal immigration, which serves to displace American men, women, and children; especially those who possess similarly limited knowledge and skill, including teenagers and young adults.
"Is it possible NOT to stimulate the economy or create any jobs by pumping 800 billion into it?"
Which just ran the damn experiment, garage, and this economy is the outcome. So yes, it is possible.
Which just ran the damn experiment, garage, and this economy is the outcome. So yes, it is possible.
Anything in the footnotes about head winds or bad luck, GM?
Speaking of which, GM, how many of those administration advisers are left?
"Which" = "We"
Which just ran the damn experiment, garage, and this economy is the outcome. So yes, it is possible.
Think I'll go with Moody's, the CBO, and many other economists on this one.
You didn't answer the question regarding whether those numbers include jobs "saved".
Speaking of which, GM, how many of those administration advisers are left?
I know Jared Berstein is gone, and he has a great blog that you should check in on once in a while.
You didn't answer the question regarding whether those numbers include jobs "saved".
That answer is plastered all over the link I provided.
I don't go to your links anymore, garage. Time after time your links did not say what you claimed they said. You poisoned that well with your dishonesty.
Given the racist origins of Davis-Bacon would it stand up to constitutional scrutiny?
David Bernstein thinks so:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/briefs/bp-017.html
"No legal challenge to Davis-Bacon itself has ever been brought. Yet under current Supreme Court precedent, and a fair reading of the Constitution, the law is clearly unconstitutional as having both discriminatory intent and lingering discriminatory effects. As the Supreme Court noted in 1985 in an analogous situation involving a facially neutral but discriminatory provision of the Alabama Constitution, "without deciding whether [the provision] could be enacted today without any impermissible motivation, we simply observe that its original enactment was motivated by a desire to discriminate against blacks on account of race and the section continues to have that effect. As such, it violates equal protection [and is therefore unconstitutionall]."[68]"co
I'd much rather have people working on a WPA-type program, even if administered by the government, than sitting on the porch drinking beer or traveling to Las Vegas and Hawaii on the public dime.
God knows we have enough schools and bridges that need repainting, trails fixed, streets swept. Those are shovel, broom and paintbrush-ready jobs. You don't need an environmental impact report and two years of planning to do any of that.
Of course it would never happen. The unions won't let you sweep the streets unless you get union wages and full retirement at 55.
"... I just showed you a link that proved otherwise..."
Oh sorry, I was looking at the unemployment figures.
I guess you have a different definition of what stimulated means.
But please continue. Trying to defend that waste of money is becoming your Mission Accomplished moment.
"... Think I'll go with Moody's, the CBO, and many other economists on this one..."
You go sonny. In fact, try and get Obama to tout that on the campaign trail. I'm sure it will be a big hit.
So, the economy is actually healthy? Who knew?
In fact, try and get Obama to tout that on the campaign trail. I'm sure it will be a big hit.
They will work it in right after "bad luck" and before "they want you to remember I'm black"
I foresee fisticuffs amongst the surrogates.
Ya know, Obama gave himself three years. Right? I guess to be fair, we need to give him the remaining 6months on his three year schedule. But it ain't lookin' real good for our hero.
More cowbell!
I love the liberal nostalgia for FDR and the massive government he created, until the War finally rescued him from the absence of evidence that anything was actually being accomplished.
I specially love Rachael Madow's advocacy for a new Hoover Dam-like project to put people to work and make America great again. What she and other Depression era romanticizers fail to note is that the number of governmental regulations today is larger by a factor of 20 than the relatively simple rules of the '30's.
Every day, five days a week, the Federal Register is published. Each issue averaging 1/2 to 1 inch thick, all chock-a-block with new and proposed regulations. Each one a hurdle that must be surmounted in order to accomplish anything is America. Each and every one, no doubt, established for our own good by those who know better.
If anything so grand as a dam, on any river in America were proposed today, there is no way a single shovelful of earth will be turned for 8-10 years. No one but a handful of planers, environmental scientists and lawyers will be employed, all of them already working. The unemployed will continue to fester until the next election passes judgement on the misguided nature of this course of action.
garage mahal said...
You're off by 600 billion. 200 billion was spent on infrastructure type projects.
Name one fucking year that the fed gov didn't spend an enormous amount of money on the roads. I've driven between here and there in the summertime since 1964 and the present, and there have always been road projects going on.
You act like this is something new.
Original Mike said...I don't go to your links anymore, garage...
You're right not to waste the effort. Jackass mahal linked to a politifact article and has parroted what it says in this thread - gragie want a cracker?
The article makes the claims attributed to IHS, Moody's and CBO that garage cut and pasted . There are no links to the IHS, Moddy, or CBO numbers in the article, just the claim.
A quick search of the IHS site reveals that they were and are any BUT of the opinion that the stimulus is creating jobs. In actual fact, they believe the stimulus has done the opposite. Try this link for what IHS actually thinks of the stimulus:
http://press.ihs.com/press-release/country-industry-forecasting/infrastructure-spending-fall-2009-despite-stimulus
That's one example. and Just on the IHS site. I won't bother chasing down the garage/politifact claims about Moody's or the CBO. It will be more of the same.
I find it sadly amusing that the lightweight smarties on the left - like garage - will swallow any portion of bullshit they are served as long as they can use it in some half-assed attempt to discredit people able to independently think. I find it vastly amusing that these asshats are so smugly convinced that they have it right.
The article makes the claims attributed to IHS, Moody's and CBO that garage cut and pasted . There are no links to the IHS, Moddy, or CBO numbers in the article, just the claim.
Check the right side of the page at the link, shit for brains. There are 22 links, even a dim bulb such as yourself should be able to find them.
'Check the right side of the page at the link, shit for brains. There are 22 links, even a dim bulb such as yourself should be able to find them.'
Caught you, asshat. Read them yourself you stupid parrot. Because, shit for brains, unlike yourself, I DID work through the links - CBO, Moody's, IHS relating to your cut and paste claims. And...they do NOT support the politifact analysis. The claims in the politifact article are unsupported.
Why? Each and every one of them, mostly from 2009 (as the IHS link I gave purposely was) is based on the assumption that the economy and the housing market will improve in 2010 and 2011. A person capable of independent though immediately sees that, understands the implications, and discards the claims as unsupported.
Why? Think of it, if that is possible for you, the numbers are projected using the premise that the economy and the housing market will improve in 2010 and 2011.
I made sure that the article I linked was even more unambiguous when saying that than the ones politifact linked.
You realize that any jackass still using 2 year old projections based on events assumed to occur in the following 12 - 18 months and that did not occur is either a moron or a liar?
My mistake, and I make them now and again, was in saying 'There are no links to the IHS, Moddy, or CBO numbers in the article, just the claim' when I should have said 'There are no links to the IHS, Moddy, or CBO that support the numbers in the article, just the claims'.
You are too easy, parrot. I reiterate - you will eat any portion of steaming bullshit served you by those who do your thinking and pass it on as established fact. All you did was google the Obama 8% claim and regurgitate the first thing google - google for christ's sake - put in front of you.
Unlike you, I looked to see if politifact's claims were supported. You made no attempt to verify or understand.
Every person on this site capable of independent thought mocks you. This is a good example of why.
I read garage's links, until recently, because I would like to have a sincere, intelligent liberal to debate and to potentially learn from.
Turns out, garage is not that man.
Is it possible NOT to stimulate the economy or create any jobs by pumping 800 billion into it?
Um, yeah.
It happened, bozo.
garage mahal said...
You didn't answer the question regarding whether those numbers include jobs "saved".
That answer is plastered all over the link I provided.
So tell us, how exactly is jobs "saved" measured?
And how is that silly metric objective?
How many of the Between 800,000 jobs and 2.4 million jobs were created and how many saved?
What's that garbage, you don't know and neither does the CBO, "politifact" Obama, Pelosi, or anyone else for that matter?
GET OUT!?
You're still a moron.
I love the "or jobs saved" formulation! You cant go wrong with that projection until all but 2 million are out of work. And the msm let it go.
Recall all the liberal commenters who claimed that Texas's new jobs were mostly minimum-wage. Worthless.
Obama should propose opening up California and Alaska for oil drilling.
And does the public actually want a Works Progress Administration-style program?
In a word?
No.
In two words?
Hell no.
What he needs to announce is the release of the oil industry from captivity. (EPA included.)
That would do more economically for the United States faster than anything I can think of.
@ Pogo 1:05
That.
And "As I have repeatedly said ..."
I can't decide if Garbage is Jon Favreau, David Axelrod, or Joe Klein.
Garage's position is the stimulus projections coming from his administration isn't the same as him saying it himself.
The projections had heavy disclaimers so its our fault for putting any reliance on what his handpicked top economic advisors said would occur after spending nearky a trillion dollars of borrowed money from China.
We only spent 200 of the 800 billion stimulus on actual shovel ready jobs.
So I stand corrected and was totally unreasonable in holding Obama personally accountable for his promises, claims etc.
It's Bush's fault, the tsunami, bad luck and ill even accept some personal responsibility for the economic crisis.
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