From a report on the Wisconsin State Fair crime spree:
The investigation into 11 of the violent incidents on the opening night of the Wisconsin State Fair has resulted in the arrest of a 16-year-old African-American who reportedly told investigators he targeted whites... because he considered them "easy targets."
Meanwhile:
Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker was asked on WLS Radio’s Roe and Roeper Show Friday if he thought the crimes warranted hate crime status, “I think it is absolutely outrageous, it is a hate crime, and I would imagine the prosecutor will be very aggressive on this. There is no tolerance whether it’s white on black or black on white, there shouldn’t be any tolerance in general for that kind of problems.”
It's not really
hate — is it? — if the idea is that this type of person won't fight back or is unlikely to be armed. It's a stereotype based on race, but it's not that you're hurting that person because you hate people in that group. But "hate crime" is not the statutory language. It's just a popular expression referring to
the statute that provides for penalty enhancement when someone "intentionally selects" a victim based on race.
Posts
71 comments:
Do we need a statute that provides for penalty enhancement when someone intentionally selects a president based on race?
You're being deliberately naive here. I think you know better than this. Is the only way a "hate crime" can be prosecuted for the perp to confess "Yes, I committed this because I hate _______ people"? Of course not, that's idiotic. The perp has every reason to play down the hate angle, because bringing the hate crime angle into play increases his punishment.
If a bunch had whites had rampaged through a black neighborhood beating up blacks and leaving the whites alone, would you need them to confess that hate motivated their crimes?
By the way, I am not a fan of hate crime legislation, but if the laws are going to be on the books they need to be applied equally.
C'mon - you know its not a "hate crime". That only goes one way. This was just due to the cutbacks and closing of youth centers and Michelle Bachman's evil energy waves. You know - the usual stuff.
Hate crime is horseshit. Like rape or murder is extra worse if you say a bad word in the middle of it.
What is pulling somebody out of their car and smacking them in a PC way called? Is it a like crime?
"I hope you don't feel targeted by my wrath, I hate all of humanity equally."
Spare me.
Are the people who think that hitting a black person is a hate crime and hitting a white person is a crime crime, guilty of a hate crime?
Or are the people who get mad at the people who think that hitting a black person is a hate crime and hitting a white person is a crime crime, guilty of a hate crime?
And what about the people who think hitting a white person is a crime crime, unless you're a black person, in which case it's a hate crime? Can you be a self-hating hate crimer?
Are we in the Sneetches yet?
All crime, by definition, is hate crime, inter or intra racial. That intra racial hate crime seems to be tolerated is the real crime.
This is what we get when legislators want to portray themselves as having "taken legislative action" to address some problem that there is in fact no effective way for them to address. In this case, they say they've passed a "hate crime" bill when in fact they have passed a racial selection bill. With the ACA, they say they've passed a "health care" bill when in fact they have passed an insurance regulation bill. And those who don't get it already will learn soon to their outraged dismay that insurance does not imply health care any more than racial selection implies hate.
These were hate crimes.
Prejudice = hate.
Whites are easy targets because they are soft and scared.
Yup. That's hate.
@ Saint Croix - Well, which group has stars upon that's? ;)
Damn autocorrect - thars!!!
" Meade said...
Do we need a statute that provides for penalty enhancement when someone intentionally selects a president based on race?"
Careful Meade. Unless Cain wins the GOP nomination the candidate will be white. You know that all dissent to Obama is racial. Therefore a vote for whitey is racial. You want to do hard time?
Hate crime is horseshit.
---
This.
Instead of penalties, let us offer criminals incentives if they show evidence of having targeted a racially diverse array of victims....perhaps a nice fruit basket or a day at the zoo.
From the teenager's statement, it's obvious he intentionally selected victims based on race, as, I'm sure, did all the other attackers.
I don't support "hate" crime laws, but as Abraham Lincoln said, “The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly.”
Meade - I believe we're already seeing enhanced punishment for that offense; all we need a statute for is to exempt non-offenders.
We already have a precedent in this type of racial political correctness. The DOJ failed to prosecute Black Panthers in Philadelphia who were intimidating white voters with sticks and clubs.
Political Correctness is a cancer on our judicial system. The perp conveniently overlooks the fear engendered in his vendetta against whites caused by a gang of blacks backing him up. What would happen if "whitey" had defended himself?
There two obvious reasons for this black on white racism. They feel empowered by Obama and Holder and they understand that their actions are sanctified by the moral perversion of white guilt/political correctness/entitlement.
A "hate crime" can be defined as that rare crime for which a liberal a) sympathizes with the crime victim rather than the criminal; and b) relishes the thought of the criminal being prosecuted, irrespective of the root causes of his criminal behavior.
If a bunch [of] whites had rampaged through a black neighborhood beating up blacks and leaving the whites alone...
In 2011 this scenario doesn't compute.
Whites have become incredibly easy targets, so much so that now even white cops threaten them with arrest for resisting assault.
Walker's statement is a bit surprising. I'd prefer outrage without endorsement of the "hate crime" label.
The investigation's declarations regarding the crimes are a perfect example of the problem with "hate crime" laws. Though I dislike the exercise, we can all imagine the media coverage of these attacks if the races were reversed.
On one hand, I agree that the law should be applied equally. On the other hand, whites should stop being such fucking sissies. Then they wouldn't be "easy targets."
The wimp aspect of white culture is not admirable. I didn't grow up in that, because I was born in a shotgun shack in the middle of the cornfields and my grandfather was a bootlegger who bought his hootch from the Capone gang. My daddy taught me how to fight.
I've spent a lot of time in South Chicago playing with black blues musicians. I like the rough and tumble of black culture. My late wife was Filipino, so I have an extended Filipino family. Filipino men don't care for the sissy shit either. They're usually pretty tough.
The weakness and sissification of whites is part of the problem.
Here, as in all things, you can't look primarily to the government to solve the problem.
From Steve Sailer's:
Walk through Home Depot during the middle of the day. You'll see plenty of big tough muscular white guys with tattoos. These are not the type of guys that get flash mobbed.
Walk through Starbucks during the middle of the day. You'll see a lot of wimpy looking SWPLs sipping on their lattes and listening to the IPOD. These are the type of white guys that get flash mobbed.
Blacks only mess with weak looking whites. You're not going to see them drive into Irish Southie or the Applachian hollers to start fights.
Peter
From Steve Sailer's:
Walk through Home Depot during the middle of the day. You'll see plenty of big tough muscular white guys with tattoos. These are not the type of guys that get flash mobbed.
Walk through Starbucks during the middle of the day. You'll see a lot of wimpy looking SWPLs sipping on their lattes and listening to the IPOD. These are the type of white guys that get flash mobbed.
Blacks only mess with weak looking whites. You're not going to see them drive into Irish Southie or the Applachian hollers to start fights.
Peter
ALthouse --
"It's a stereotype based on race, but it's not that you're hurting that person because you hate people in that group"
Do you have to stretch to come up with those, or does it spring natural?
I've spent a lot of time in South Chicago playing with black blues musicians. I like the rough and tumble of black culture.
They're tough, eh? Like how? They talk tough? They dress tough? They ACT tough?
What specifically do they do that demonstrates toughness? Or is it all an act?
I have never been a fan of "hate" crime legislation or penalty enhancements for what is essentially motive.
If Joe kills Fred, Fred isn't any deader because Joe hated him. Now, if Joe kills Fred in a particularly heinous way - torturing him for days, dragging him behind a truck, drawing and quartering while still alive - then penalty enhancements could be added for the method but not for the motivation.
That said, the law should apply if Joe is white and Fred is black or if Fred is white and Joe is black, or any other combination to include both being of the same ethnicity/religion/gender/orientation or whatever category each could be placed into.
What Maguro, Moose, and vet66 said, also Shout's first paragraph.
The whole hate speech/crime thing is just another attempt to silence and intimidate Conservatives/Libertarians/Republicans.
They're always guilty, the Demos' protected groups are always the victims.
Time to put a stop to it.
On one hand, I agree that the law should be applied equally. On the other hand, whites should stop being such fucking sissies. Then they wouldn't be "easy targets."
God, you're such a blowhard.
What would you do, Mr. Shotgun Shack Bootlegger's Son, if a group of 6-8 black teens jumped you? Break out your Filipino karate moves and roundhouse kick them away? Maybe break their arms, Stephen Seagal syle?
One of the reasons all this "easy target" stuff is bullshit is that anybody is an easy target, given the type of numerical superiority these punks had. Or are we supposed to believe that black guys are so badass that they can effectively resist mob attacks from 8 other equally badass black guys? That doesn't even make sense.
Well, it wasn't hate hate.
What would you do, Mr. Shotgun Shack Bootlegger's Son, if a group of 6-8 black teens jumped you? Break out your Filipino karate moves and roundhouse kick them away? Maybe break their arms, Stephen Seagal syle?
I survived living for five years in Ft. Greene Park in Brooklyn, right on the edge of Bed Stuy, in the midst of the crack epidemic.
First rule... never put yourself in the position where 6-8 black teens can jump you.
Well at least the easy targets didn't fight back, because then the cops would have arrested them too.
Well, we have to wait til November 1st for CCW--too bad Doyle and libtards vetoed it 2 years ago. About 10 rounds in the air would have stopped the mob, or one well placed round, heh. Try this at next year's State Fair, he he he.
Shouting Thomas --
"First rule... never put yourself in the position where 6-8 black teens can jump you."
Like in a wide-open parking area at a state fair?
First rule... never put yourself in the position where 6-8 black teens can jump you.
These people went to the fair with their families. Haven't you been paying attention?
It appears the criminals are profiling their intended victims. I'm not sure if this ought to be illegal, but the law as written is clearly being broken.
I suppose if we handicap our police by not allowing them to profile, it is only fair that we similarly handicap the criminals as well.
First rule... never put yourself in the position where 6-8 black teens can jump you.
Next you'll be telling women not to dress like sluts and walk alone in dangerous parts of town.
Well. Should be interesting to see how Governor Walker handles this one. The "topic" doesn't belong "out in the open" ... as much as it really belongs behind the scenes ... Where the LEFT, itself, uses "easy to attack targets."
While the police, having seen this lunge at a fair ... would be better off going all DISNEY.
Disney doesn't make a fuss! Security is very real. But they're not in the faces of their park visitors! They don't depend on people like TUBBS. Or "the fat cop" (whose name, I think, is Calhoun.) It's a completely different way of handling trouble.
I only target black people for robbery because the deal drugs, have cash and do not report crimes to the police.
Nope nothing racial there.
Like in a wide-open parking area at a state fair?
These people went to the fair with their families. Haven't you been paying attention?
It's called street smarts. The black kids hadn't painted their skin white, had they?
You see them at the event. If you have any sense, you expect the worst.
I do... always.
A selective rule of law harms everyone as it promotes distrust. It does an excellent job of dividing people along various defined lines (typically "progressive" classes), and has proven to be the premise for the construction and perpetuation of very profitable enterprises, both in the public and private sectors.
The so-called "hate crime" laws should be stricken from the record and corrections applied in accordance with the actual injurious actions taken (murder is murder, rape is rape, assault is assault, etc.).
It is in the best interest of society and humanity, and preserving individual dignity, that we move past "progressive" classifications of individuals.
That said, the moral of the story is not to be a victim. Not to be cowed or deceived into complacency. Whether it is the only order or not, the natural order rules most of the world.
It's called street smarts. The black kids hadn't painted their skin white, had they?
You see them at the event. If you have any sense, you expect the worst.
I do... always.
Whites aren't wimps, but you are. Run, pussy, run!
No, by definition only whites could be racist, ergo only whites could commit hate crimes.
On the post of you getting attacked, Ann. Among the 600 comments ... one came in from David R. Graham. On 8/12/11. @11:34 PM
That one is MUST READING!
It describes hired agitators. With an agenda. (In particular, where you and your son were targets.)
Experience is just a matter of learning from one bad event to another.
If no one "sent in the black kids." If it was something they decided to do on their own. It's still a CONSPIRACY ... if they thought they'd come in to do this in the first place.
Governor Walker needs to set up a committee he trusts. That can review, over and over again, all of the video tapes.
Plus, there's learning materials on them.
Just using your tape. And, David R. Graham's wonderful REPORT ... You'd see a MILITARY OPERATION taking place against you. Your son. And, Meade.
"WORKING IN PAIRS" ...
You had the OPERATION mapped out.
One person guards the perimeter. Another has to get the attention of the victim. And, you also need someone (in your video) holding a red-heart balloon like a teddy bear. Never releasing it by it's string. It could cover your camera lens. Or act as a "Signaling Agent" to other thugs ...
But these crimes are not spontaneous. Not done, alone.
Did Kirby Jones pay a price?
Oh, yeah. Seen my millions.
Did the appearance of search engine results on Kirby Jones show up? YEAH. YEAH. That, too.
But Governer Walker's best approach ahead is not to sleep-walk through.
DO A DISNEY! Take rear-guard action. Be set to go for the next one ... before a moron ... like the "FAT COP" (Calhoun) ... comes in to spout "official" offal nonsense.
And, Governor. Tell TUBBS. You want a review of WHAT Officer Calhoun said ... that got caught on tape. REVIEWED. And, then dump a dump into the guy's personnel file for misrepresenting Wisconsin law.
Now is not the time to hate Black people.
if the idea is that this type of person won't fight back or is unlikely to be armed. It's a stereotype based on race, but it's not that you're hurting that person because you hate people in that group
Cool.
So if I decide not to hire blacks because the stereotype is that they make crappy employees because they are: lazy, uneducated, surly, undependable, rude to customers, steal and harm my business..........
That isn't racial is it?
The idea of a "hate crime" was a bad one from the beginning. It is hard enough to prove WHAT happened. It is next to impossible to prove WHY it happened. The concept of "hate crime" was created so folks could congratulate themselves on how good-hearted they are. It seems to me it hurts equally badly when someone punches you for your wallet or because they don't like your skin color.
The idea of hate crimes is just PC bullshit. People hate other people occassionally and some act on the hate. The legal problem isn't the hate but the action.
The real question here is why are black/brown people more apt to be armed and more apt to be violent for little or no reason. Don't give me the bullshit about poor, agrieved, former slaves, etc. They are the most pampered group of people in the United States today.
They have no conception or interest in a law-abiding society. They are the last group to live in Locke's state of nature, their lives being, in large measure, "nasty, brutish and short." Why is that when they have every opportunity, opportunities that others in the world would willingly die for?
And it's not only in this country. Is there a nation run by these people that works in an honest, free and law abiding way?
I disagree that all crimes are hate crimes. When an assassin pulls the trigger it's not personal, just business.
By definition blacks can't be racist because racism is about power and whites have all the institutional power. That's a fact of life, no matter how you fucking wingnuts try to deny it. You fucking fucking racists.
I told you that was one likely reason it happened:
Because liberals are easy marks.
All this racist shit is your minds - and you keep America's racial problems going by allowing race to, comfortably, lodge itself there.
I have already accepted apologies from Fen and Sixty Grit in advance, thanks.
This is a silly question. Everybody knows white only commit hate crimes; they can't be victims of hate crimes. It's non-possible.
Is the only way a "hate crime" can be prosecuted for the perp to confess "Yes, I committed this because I hate _______ people"? Of course not, that's idiotic.
Idiotic or not, something very like that happened a few years ago at the University of Virginia, and the perps walked -- apparently because of what Alex wrote at 11:48.
You fucking crackers. You fucking honkies. Racists, one and all of you. Irredeemable fucks. Hell awaits.
I would suck Jesse Jackson's cock.
If I was in the situation with my family (I went to a few fairs this year) I would lock my doors and procede to use my vehicle as a weapon. Then I would imagine I would be the cause of the hate crime.
Why can't it just be a crime? There's alot of white junkie pill heads where I live who im sure at one time or another have operated in packs....
Crack is right, the racism is in your head just let it go.
Groups of people commit crimes.
I would kill a black man in defense of my family, I would kill a white man, I would kill a indian, I would kill aliens from outer space.
It's not a hate crime.
It's a wise move.
The hate crime is the government that seeks to disarm citizens who defend themselves.
Another pro for traditional Texan wisdom.
In Texas you are often out in the boonies with no help anywhere nearby to defend yourself from snakes and Mexican bandits.
The Wisconsin folks of all skin colors need to carry weapons to protect themselves from union snakes and feral teenager banditos of all skin colors.
Effective Dealing With Rioters
The recent mob actions in Philadelphia, Milwaukee and "Londonistan" lead to the question of how to deal with rioters as individuals and groups. The "stuck in the 1960s" social theories and resultnt actions do NOT do so.
AS INDIVIDUALS AND SMALL GROUPS: The police appear usually too few or too late OR too afraid to take such EFFECTIVE actions as will protect innocents from death or great bodily injury or life-destroying property damage by such individuals or small groups.
However, citizens in some places can assist the police my marking such rioters as evidence. The most effective way of doing so is by putting 0.32-inch (The size of "OO" buckshot) or 9mm or .38/.45/.30-inch holes in the bodies of such thugs.
Thereafter and when danger is past, the police can take out their little note-books and record the evidence left for them. (Please Note: A hard touch of a triangular file to the lands of a gun barrel and light touch to the tip of a firing-pin and extractor will neutralize the usual forensic evidence.
IN LARGE GROUPS: The proven best tactic is to have them (By their own actions or force) gathered together in one place (eg. A stadium as in the "Nike Riots" in Constantinople, for which see) and use it as a "surrender or die killing zone".
Facts VS Hate Crime Laws
The number of Blacks who select Whites as the victims of their crimes is many, many, times the reverse. Blacks as victims of White rapists are so few as to be statistically meaning less, which is most certainly not the reverse. (I have not been exposed to the same information as to Latinos and Whites, but suspect from local crime reports that the same holds true.)
It is obvious that the number of Gays and Bi-Sexual persons who infect others (And kill them) with AIDS/HIV is infinitely greater that the opposite.
In fact, most deadly and other serous assaults are within the same groups: Black on Black, Latino on Latino, Gay on Gay and White on White.
Hate crimes laws do two, very unfortunate, things:
1.Provide an irrational (ie Not based on facts) unequal protection of the law; And,
2. Cover up the failure of each group to change its own cultures towards civilized, law-abiding and life-respecting behavior---Rather than hiding under another "excuse" for bad behavior chiefly within, but also without, each such "minority group"
Shouting Thomas: "...my grandfather was a bootlegger who bought his hootch from the Capone gang."
I thought bootlegers sold hooch to people like the Capone gang.
Bigger Threat: Copy-Cat-TISM
Are "yoots" who heard of this back in their ghetto, willing to try to knock off individual white people who go to the fair?
I think not.
I think, too, that people who buy space to sell stuff at fairs ... have already thought out plans on how they keep their cash stashed.
I also think the counters ... are wide enough ... your average gang-banger-thief can't jump over in time to grab anything. And, by the time he'd be ready to "jump back out" ... he'd somehow get sprawled out, instead.
Not even DISNEY. But the old carney types who run the stuff that's sold at Coney Island. When the crowds coming in are HUGE!
My mom new the owner of Nathan's. And, when I was a kid she pointed out that none of the counter-men. In white uniforms. Had pants pockets. Or even cuffs at the bottoms of their trousers. Because Mr. Handwerker didn't want those handling "change" ... to drop any into their pants pockets. Or cuffs. Only the managers had pockets.
The fairs I've been to ... have been held under tents. That go up. (Let's say at Showcase Houses.)
The vendors give people receipts. And, the merchandise is held ... until the customer comes back with a register receipt. Which is a separate line.
All merchandise is backed to go in little bags. Foods are sold separately.
And, I don't see police. Because the grounds are private property.
Parking? At the Rose Bowl. Not obviously patrolled. But you get the gist.
If you want customers you've got to protect the tradesmen. As well as the guests.
Oh, even in Madison, now, video cameras can be ubiquitous. And, all eyes upon "you" ... are not in view. Protection's gotta appear seamless.
(Oh, somewhere above a poster suggested a person in the crowd could "mark a perp." Then, I read it was with "gun holes." But before that I thought Heck ... along with a can of "pepper spray" ... you could carry a small can of paint. Wouldn't a quirt of yellow work best?) Or do average folk just run away from trouble?
TUBBS is the biggest threat of all to Blacks!
He's selected by liberals, the same way Al Sharpton got selected by CNN for a TV show.
Blacks are not in Sharpton's audience! They're not even in Obama's! (Obama's a harvahd pick. On the grounds that he's the most harmless black you can find!) Sure, Obama spouts "ideology." And, it's the stuff taught at harvahd, anyway. Nothing whatsoever to do with Blacks! It's not even "affirmative action," here! It's the left's desire to control everything. So they pick stupid people to appear as if they've got a broader base than they do.
It is, as a matter of fact, also why the left hates Israel!
While the left's not out to make life better for any of you!
Marauding "yoots" ... Back in it's hey day it was called "Mau-Mau." Now? Africans starve to death. Just like Black yoots generally do in all our ghettos. And, in European ones too.
Can't be fixed by anything I know that would be in the tool kit. Like "new cars" ... where in days of old mechanics could fix things under da' hood. Now it's strickly changing out the comuters on board.
Tubbs a MENACE!
I can just imagine how he wrote up his paperwork, too. After interviewing all the justices on Wisconsin's Supreme Court.
He must have pulled an "Officer Calhoun" ... all on his own.
Stand in line for your promotions. Surely, yes, I'm jesting.
COMPUTERS! Not commuters. Who came and went when the jobs all went to Asia, anyway.
There is no such thing as a hate crime simply because humans have not yet advanced to the place where they can read minds.
However, eyes can see and if deliberate attacks are made by one race against another, then we can perceive racist motivation. When frequent physical attacks occur in the same geographical region (Milwaukee and its suburbs) by black youths, then hey! -- its time to call a club "a club."
Hot Air documents several riots that happened this year.
as DBQ implied, but didn't name, this was racial profiling by blacks.
Most crimes are either hate crimes or envy crimes (a lesser form of hate). We just object to the double standard when blacks attack whites because of their status, the blacks are given a pass (see the Black Panther outrage), but whites are never given such a pass in similar circumstances.
Re: whites being easy targets
There are still a whole slew of Southern Boys (i.e. rednecks) that can handle a gun and aren't remotely easy targets.
I know. I was surprised, too.
"It's a stereotype based on race, but it's not that you're hurting that person because you hate people in that group"
Actually, that has been the basis for successful hate crime prosecutions of gay bashers around the country -- homosexual men are considered to be "no risk" targets and are selected because of identifiable characteristics based upon group membership. Sort of like picking white folks because they are presumed to be an easy target.
If situations like this are not treated as hate crimes, we have an equal protection question -- and evidence that hate crime statutes are actually "protected species laws" that enhance penalties only when the victim is part of a group preferred by liberals.
As someone who was once the victim of a wilding incident, I find it doubly offensive when someone says that they didn't do it because I was white but because I was weak....Give it a rest. If you go through life projecting an air of menace and violence, it will perhaps give you an edge in avoiding muggers, but in most other encounters you will come out the loser......Blacks object to being stereotyped as dangerous and violent. Beating up assorted whites is not the proper way to diminish this stereotype. Claiming that the victim in some way deserved it just makes the offense worse.
Hatte crimes are only against blacks and gays.
Well, after the crime you get the cops showing up. As Officer Calhoun demonstrated, being the victim doesn't mean you won't be threatened with arrest.
And, then?
I've no faith in DA's. Most of them want easy cases they can pin to "victories" in court. And, fairness has nothing to do with it.
If you're left alive, by the time your court time comes up ... you're gonna face what the maid is facing in New York City.
In the maid's case she's lucky Ken Thompson accepted her as his client. Otherwise her name would have been successfully dragged through the mud.
Nobody tallies this up when they talk about crimes in this country. But given what's up ...
If you belong to a group that gets attacked ... It's best to travel in groups. And, it's best to know self-defense. Many a perp really isn't all that good at getting the "double punch." One punch to the nose. And, the other punch done by the concrete. As they hit the ground.
Recently, I read someplace ... that an Asian gal was attacked. (She was even pregnant.) Her purse was stolen, as she was mugged. But she gave chase. And, managed to kick the perp in such a way his ankle went backwards. He lay on the ground, screaming.
That's about the best solution.
Plus, today, I learned about longbows.
There is no such thing as a hate crime.
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