A coalition of union groups active in state Senate recalls now advocates that Democrats field fake Republican candidates to run in primary elections against GOP state senators - just as Republicans are fielding fake Democrats to run against those who challenging GOP incumbents.Yeah, one option is to denounce the Republicans who use this nefarious tactic, and the other option is to use it yourself. Just weigh your options, and use the one that you think it more likely to work!
Friday evening, the Democratic Party of Wisconsin issued a statement that neither endorsed nor ruled out the idea, saying the party will "review the options available."
Adopting the fake-Republican strategy might be difficult for Democrats to explain.Well, the fact that you've already started using option #1 is one thing to take into account as you weigh your options. That adds weight to option #1, but option #2 might still weigh more heavily.
Just Thursday, the party sent a statement from Rep. Sandy Pasch (D-Whitefish Bay) attacking Sen. Alberta Darling (R-River Hills) over the fact that a fake Democrat, Gladys Huber, had surfaced to run against Pasch in a Democratic primary July 12, potentially forcing an Aug. 9 general recall election.
"We deserve better than dirty tricks that would make Nixon proud," Pasch was quoted as saying. "Given how much taxpayer money will be wasted on this cynical ploy, Sen. Darling's hypocrisy is stunning."
***
A reading for the day. From Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals":
Life and how you live it is the story of means and ends. The end is what you want, and the means is how you get it. Whenever we think about social change, the question of means and ends arises. The man of action views the issue of means and ends in pragmatic and strategic terms. He has no other problem; he thinks only of his actual resources and the possibilities of various choices of action. He asks of ends only whether they are achievable and worth the cost; of means, only whether they will work. The real arena is corrupt and bloody. Life is a corrupting process from the time a child learns to play his mother off his father in the politics of when to go to bed; he who fears corruption fears life.
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Solution for Wisconsin:
Have new elections every day for every political position in the state!
Swear in new office holders in the morning, escort them from the premises in the evening.
This will sate the Wisconsinite's endless appetite for political drama. Perhaps.
"he who fears corruption fears life."
I think I'm getting all warm and fuzzy,...
Good. I hope that the Heywood Jablome is on the ballot, too.
Althouse, do Wisconsinites ever take time off from politics to screw?
"...he who fears corruption fears life."
He who embraces corruption votes Democrat.
Power is all, always.
Who's going to be the first leftist to claim that they had never even heard of Saint Saul until right-wingers kept bringing it up?
From the linked article:
"Republicans control the state Senate 19-14. If the Democrats gained three seats through the recall process, they'd take control of that body and serve as a counterbalance to Republican Gov. Scott Walker and the GOP-controlled Assembly."
I always like a little soft left leaning bias with my morning coffee. Getting the Dems in control of the Senate is a "counter-balance" because otherwise things are just way too tilted to one side.
Two weeks ago Republicans were talking about election integrity. Now it's "we'll fuck with elections". Maybe the most craven group of Republicans ever assembled. I would hope Democrats wouldn't stoop to their level.
"Althouse, do Wisconsinites ever take time off from politics to screw?"
In the words of Anthony Weiner: "why choose?" (Weiner continued: "with me behind you can't we both watch daily show?")
That's an old trick that pre-dates Alinsky. We've been doing that in Michigan for years both in elections and primaries. If your opponent is named "Josephine A. Smith" you round up Joe Smith, Jean Symthe, Jolene Smith, or if you're really good another Josephine Q. Smith and get 'em all on the ballot. Peel off enough votes and you win.
We should expel Wisconsin from the Union.
First, it has become an embarrassment.
Second, it would be interesting to see if it could survive without the dollars it wastes that it gets from the rest of us.
Third, we'd be spared the effects of its Reps and Senators in Congress.
This is what democracy looks like! Heh.
Yeah, one option is to denounce the Republicans who use this nefarious tactic, and the other option is to use it yourself.
And the third option, which is what you are seeing in Wisconsin, is to do both.
Make that "looking at." I think you are looking at it, Professor, but not seeing it.
He has no other problem; he thinks only of his actual resources and the possibilities of various choices of action.
Sounds like a good working definition of psychopathy.
Garage Mahal said:
"I would hope Democrats wouldn't stoop to their level."
Hahahahahahahahahaha.
Is the Wisc recall primary an open primary where independents and/or voters of the other party can vote in either party's primary?
If not, in order to have a "fake candidate" fielded by the other party succeed in your recall primary, don't you need to have "stupid voters" in your own party?
gerry said...
We should expel Wisconsin from the Union.
First, it has become an embarrassment.
Second, it would be interesting to see if it could survive without the dollars it wastes that it gets from the rest of us.
Third, we'd be spared the effects of its Reps and Senators in Congress.
Wisconsin is a net payer, meaning we pay more in federal taxes than are returned to us by the federal government. An example of a net taker is Vermont.
wv: "bratiess"
Fake candidates, fake voters, bullshit stimulus shoveling cash to cronies, BS science warning of global warming to grab control, bogus data and voting to take over health care, fabricated victim classes to favor, etc., etc.
All governments lie, but mendacity seems to have reached a tipping point. The status quo cannot abide; either we will spin further down the drain into totalitarianism, or the people will arise.
We seem to be 48:48 for:against authoritarianism, at the mercy of those still somehow undecided.
How much more of this nonsense...from both parties...do we have to put up with before tax-dollars are no longer spent on what should be a purely internal party decision?
As democracy devolves into the inevitable battle of knaves over the dismembered nation monarchy is looking better and better.
The Republicans invented this?
IIRC, the Demos have been running false flag Tea Party candidates for a couple of years.
Isn't how they won the last NY Congressional race?
Second, it would be interesting to see if it could survive without the dollars it wastes that it gets from the rest of us.
It matters little that Wisconsin is a "net payer". Better that no redistributed funds go to a state with a population that should take civility advice from Westboro Baptist Church.
The child who plays mother off father gets shut down immediately when mother and father are working together.
life is a corrupting process ... fears corruption fears life
No, it is not. Life is not a corrupting process. The premise itself is corrupted. These are the premises of a child that never grew up, and it shows.
Yeah, one option is to denounce the Republicans who use this nefarious tactic, and the other option is to use it yourself.
Third Democrat option: DO BOTH. Democrat leaders live hypocrisy like a second skin.
Thank you for the Alinsky/Democrat rule book sections you reprinted here Ann.
The average Democrat in America has no idea how soulless and down-and-dirty unethical their party leaders actually are. And Democrat leaders could care less.
"After expressing outrage over a Republican tactic, the Democrats want to do it too."
This of course suggests that Republicans thought up this brand new tactic and now Democrats want to, for the first time, copy it.
Which is, of course, complete bullshit.
Republicans learned this tactic from Democrats, who have been doing it for 90 years. Now that we're playing by the rules they created, Democrats cry foul?
That's the really hilarious thing about this post.
Message to Democrats: You make up the rules. We agree in advance to play by whatever rules create. Good luck and remember ... there's no crying in baseball.
That's how confident we are that we can beat you at your own game.
"Wisconsin is a net payer, meaning we pay more in federal taxes than are returned to us by the federal government."
Here is the link to data proving Meade's assertion.
On average, Wisconsin gets in return only .85 cents of each dollar in federal taxes taken from its residents at threat of jail by the federal government.
If you live in Wisconsin, you are a slave. Your hard earned income is given to the shiftless horde in Louisiana.
Hey, you won the Civil War. Congratulations!
Bend over.
"If you live in Wisconsin, you are a slave. Your hard earned income is given to the shiftless horde in Louisiana."
And as long as you dumb morons are willing to pay it, we're damn sure gonna fucking take it.
Grow a pair, Meade, and stop. fucking. voluntarily. paying. it.
Yes sir, lower case nevadabob, sir! I'll get right on that.
Is the Wisc recall primary an open primary where independents and/or voters of the other party can vote in either party's primary?
You don't have to be registered to a party to vote in the primary, but if everyone is on the same ballot, you have to pick one side or the other. That is, last summer, Walker ran against Newman in the primary. The Milwaukee County Sheriff, David Clark, was also running in the primary, but he runs as a D.
A bunch of us had to make the hard choice between voting for Clark, who is a good sheriff (not sure why there would be an R or a D way of enforcing the law, at least not in theory), and for Walker. You couldn't vote for both of them on the same ballot.
Standard lefty thinking: it's ok that we do it because they do it too. But they suck for doing it.
At least this time it's more than just a convenient lie that "they do it too." Apparently they actually are doing it.
Standard lefty thinking: it's ok that we do it because they do it too. But they suck for doing it.
At least this time it's more than just a convenient lie that "they do it too." Apparently they actually are doing it.
I would hope Democrats wouldn't stoop to their level
There's quite a number of us who agree. What I'm noticing are some splits on the left, depending on the issue and forming a response to it. Too bad, but inevitable, I suppose.
Yup. Let's roast Walker over the coals for "thinking" about using fake demonstrators, but let the Democrats get away with using the same tactic in the elections. And let us not forget the fake "tea Party" candidate in NY. Was that a ploy of the GOP? The hypocrisy has gotten so thick, you can't see your hand in front of your face.
Chase said, The average Democrat in America has no idea how soulless and down-and-dirty unethical their party leaders actually are. And Democrat leaders could care less.
Ryan Lizza, "New Republic", 3/9/07: The first and most fundamental lesson Obama learned was to reassess his understanding of power. Horwitt says that, when Alinsky would ask new students why they wanted to organize, they would invariably respond with selfless bromides about wanting to help others. Alinsky would then scream back at them that there was a one-word answer: "You want to organize for power!"
Galluzzo shared with me the manual he uses to train new organizers, which is little different from the version he used to train Obama in the '80s. It is filled with workshops and chapter headings on understanding power: "power analysis," "elements of a power organization," "the path to power." Galluzzo told me that many new trainees have an aversion to Alinsky's gritty approach because they come to organizing as idealists rather than realists. But Galluzzo's manual instructs them to get over these hang-ups. "We are not virtuous by not wanting power," it says. "We are really cowards for not wanting power," because "power is good" and "powerlessness is evil."
wv: ellogi
Elegy? "Log"? (L-O-G)
When will the primaries be? If they are a separated, as the elections are, then the Republicans can vote in Democratic primary and defeat the stinking Democrats in the Primary, and then again in the general election.
There's that recent New York congressional election that featured a fake Tea Party candidate who it turns out is really a Democrat...
Said election was touted as a bellwether for the 2012 elections as well...
Dems take the high road: http://www.wisdems.org/news/press/view/2011-06--statement-of-dpw-chair-mike-tate-on-gop-recall-elec
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