In the bad old days, poll taxes, now outlawed by the 24th Amendment, were used to keep African Americans from voting.... This is the civil rights issue of our moment.... he himself propagates racism in the form of an assumption that black people have trouble performing the simplest task.
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"Are we now going to witness a subtle return of Jim Crow voting laws?"
WaPo's E.J. Dionne Jr. is getting histrionic about voter ID laws in his piece called "How States Are Rigging the 2012 Election." Making it as racial as he possibly can...
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১৩২টি মন্তব্য:
"... he himself propagates racism in the form of an assumption that black people have trouble performing the simplest task."
One of the tenets of liberalism!!!!
Mr. Dionne unwittingly reveals himself.
How can anyone possibly have a problem with showing ID for voting?
I did factory work. All the blacks that I worked with, had a high school education at best. None of them had any trouble getting an ID. None had trouble trying to vote. Maybe E.J. is AlphaLiberal.
Apparently, some Democrats are dumb as posts, never buy cigarettes or liquor, cannot drive cars, are illiterate, do not get student loans, Medicare or Medicaid, do not have Social Security numbers, do not have credit cards nor write checks, and have never filled out any government paperwork before.
So I see his concern.
Is racism their only remaining card?
What Dione is disingenuously trying to tell you is that he thinks anyone present on US soil has the right to vote. Period. Illegality of entry not-withstanding, nor non-citizenship, he means "anyone" at all.
That he uses a barely cloaked racism to promote this is no surprise as stated by others here. Liberal Progressives do that.
There is no comparison between a poll tax and voter ID...anymore than there is for traveler ID to board an airplane, buy liquor, and so on. The LP's create a scenario out of nothing.
Following on our man POGO, although its been years, as I remember to even rent a tape @ Blockbuster, one had to show TWO(2) forms of ID--one with a picture. But something involving the bedrock foundation of our civilization and all of a sudden the Dims want to go on the honor system? I guess that's why our jails are empty and credit-card fraud and identity theft are unknown, right?
its ej dionne--enough said
The states are trying to rig future elections.
The states are trying to rig elections in such a way that the end result will be one person, one vote.
Jesse Jackson sr. was mumbling about this issue over the weekend.
A tried and true Dem weapon being drawn from the quiver one more time.
Pogo said...
Is racism their only remaining card?
Yes. If you don't like the current Prez, you're racist. If you question whether people who do not speak your language and have no ID, but live next door, you're racist. If you question humongous expenditures in the face of recession and monster deficits, larger than ever before ... you're a racist.
Simple, no?
I'm amused that Progressives love to cite the "Clinton surplus" as "their" accomplishment...but don't give a whit for a surplus now, unless of course they get to raise taxes
The ONE good thing about electing Barry president is that it pretty much killed the racism charge as an effective political attack. In fact, it becomes more and more ineffective, and even pathetic, every time they use it.
I'll tell you something, TWM, they will use the race card over and over. They will use it forever. That is the all they have.
I live in Indiana, and it is my understanding that if you are eligible to vote and don't drive, you can get a free photo ID from the Bureau of Motor Vehicles.
I went to college outside my home state, and was registered to vote in my home state. I never had a student ID with my address on it, and always had a valid drivers license even when I didn't have a car on campus.
TWM said...
The ONE good thing about electing Barry president is that it pretty killed the racism charge ...
You wish. IMO it merely institutionalized it.
Come on, Ann.
We all know black people aren't intelligent enough beasts to get themselves an ID. That requires navigating down to the DMV and filling out a form like the rest of us. Too complicated for their kind.
Dionne is right in what he is saying: "Black people are stupid."
I love EJ. He proves a relentless dedication to partisan attacks are the primary requirement for a life in journalism. His writing sucks and his thinking atrocious, but his ability to embarass himself for the cause is unquestioned.
Lifetime employment guaranteed.
Shorter Dionne: "If you don't let us cheat, you are racist".
Fuck off, Libtard.
While it is true that a lot of inner city youth don't have a driver's license, this Voter ID law will actually affect mostly the senior citizens and the clergy. (Google "nuns id" and you'll see some examples of the latter)
My big problem is that if my wallet is stolen the week or so before an election and the local DMV is only open twice a month. Now I'm not only out my money/creditcards/etc, I've also lost my right to vote.
Guess I better get a couple of those free ids the State is now going to have to give away for free, just so I have a back up ID (or two.) Also, we need to look at staffing all the DMVs across the state to be open more often then they currently are...at least in the month leading up to the election.
"...study after study has shown that fraud by voters is not a major problem"
Who you gonna believe?
Study after study, or your own lyin' racist eyes?
"...and is less of a problem than how hard many states make it for people to vote in the first place."
Hard to believe, but in Minnesota, even though you can claim to be anyone on the voting list and no proof is required, they still demand that you show up at the poll to vote.
it's just another poll tax!
Goddam racists.
"...at least in the month leading up to the election"
If people are too stupid to think of voting until election day, they should stay home. They are a clear and present danger to democracy.
Leftists cry American corporations pay too little in taxes, and when they see G.E. pay less than little old me in federal taxes they have evidence to support their conclusion.
It's the same with racism: Liberals are racist and are correct to identify America as racist, as America is as racist as the mirror to a lib and that is pretty damned racist.
It's projection. Sarah Palin figured this out many years ago, and is instictively inside the OODA loop of leftists on issues like this, as are most Americans who have given it thought and aren't influenced by things other than altruisticly-based rationale.
Pogo ... How "racist" of Minnesota! Not long ago in Detroit the Clerk sent out absentee ballots to anyone who ever voted absentee (dead or not did not matter), plus a few extras ... they were hand delivered by city staff, frequently filled in by city staff to "help" old folks, indigents, immigrants,and illiterates ya' know.
How can anyone possibly have a problem with showing ID for voting?
How can any union worth belonging to possibly have a problem with raising it's funds by asking it's members to pay the dues themselves?
"Guess I better get a couple of those free ids the State is now going to have to give away for free, just so I have a back up ID (or two.)"
Actually, I am doing this already in TX, because a drivers license must be sent from Austin while a non-drivers ID is made on the spot. So I use the non-drivers ID to get through airport security; if I lose it there it's easy enough to get another one.
Of course, that requires planning, which is clearly a concept of the racist patriarchy....
You have to show an ID to cash a check, or provide proof of license to a police officer when stopped. Why is it so hard to show that you are eligible to vote?
As to the lack of voter fraud - why did 7000 more people vote in Minneapolis than the total number of registered voters?
The only way to stop this nonsense is to have busloads of Young Republicans show up on election day and demand to vote before reembarking on their buses to go to the next polling station.
Then you'll see E.J. demand proof of eligibility to vote.
Fort said...
Leftists cry American corporations pay too little in taxes, and when they see G.E. pay less than little old me in federal taxes they have evidence ...
And Jeffry Immelt is grateful, Obbie's buddy, and appointed to the President's Economic Recovery Advisory Board to guide us in economic recovery. Who knew not paying taxes was a good thing?
Sad thing is that liberals believe racism in defense of liberalism is not racism. It's "compassion" and "empathy." They pretend they know what life is like for those they want to control when they don't know a thing about the day-to-day world of the black community. I've lived there. Showing an ID to vote is the least of their worries. Idiot.
Jeez. Enough of this pap. Last week I went to buy a shirt at JC Penney's (yes, Penney's. Before the good old Obama days, I might have actually looked at Nordstrom, but that's another story). When I pulled out my credit card to pay, they asked for my ID. I had to show my ID to buy a shirt at Penney's.
Hey, EJ- go drink some protein shake or something. Your brain has rotted. It takes a modicum of citizenry to get your butt off the couch to acquire an ID so that you might vote in an election. Just the bare minimum required to be a citizen here and have the right to vote: show you are you.
Morever, if your target is just a Presidential election, you have 4 years between those elections. Spend 2 hours of your precious life to get an ID so that you can vote.
If you're job is to accept cash in hand to be bussed to another precinct to vote for the Dem-o-Choice, then get your ID and you can still ride that shuttle over to the precinct, get your cash, and...oops...you might not be able to vote.
Nah...they'll not check it anyway.
Seriously, EJ- do you not think that there has been a history of voter fraud in...oh...let's just pick one city....say.....Chicago? Do you not think we've had a little influx of, dare I call them, illegal aliens? I know it would never occur to anyone to do anything illegally with elections. But...just in case, humor us racists.
"I'll tell you something, TWM, they will use the race card over and over. They will use it forever. That is the all they have. "
I never said they would stop using it. It's just that it's not as effective as it once was. In fact, absent using the "N" word or some other obviously racist imagery, no one buys it any longer. And since it only has power if those who are accused of it cower in terror then I believe we have reached a place where it no longer is something to fear.
Like the boy who cried wolf, the obviously pretentious and false racism charges thrown out by Dionne and others have made it easier to stand-up to this nonsense. Good people recognize REAL racism and this ain't it.
Dionne is an idiot:
"In Texas, for example, the law allows concealed handgun licenses as identification but not student IDs."
Because students can be from anywhere, and may not be a resident at all.
Texas concealed handgun licenses require:
* Social security number,
* Valid driver license or identification card,
* Current demographic, address, contact, and employment information,
* Residential and employment information for the last five years,
* Information regarding any psychiatric, drug, alcohol, or criminal history,
* Valid email address, and
* Valid credit card "
AND
* Fingerprinting!
www.texasonline.state.tx.us/txapp/txdps/chl/
I never said they would stop using it. It's just that it's not as effective as it once was.
The problem is that we're always one egregious incident away from recharging the racist label's batteries.
The bigotry of low expectation is still bigotry. Spend twenty years in the military and never knew a black and/or minority who did not have the intelligence to get a driver's license or some form of ID.
EJ Dionne is the "face" of leftist racism. I suspect that the Dems and their partisans know they cannot win an honest election so they have to have the ability to commit voter fraud.
DionnE; "Nationwide exit polls show that John McCain carried households in which someone owned a gun by 25 percentage points but lost voters in households without a gun by 32 points."
Conclusion?
JIM CROW IS COMIN'!!!1!
I'll never understand how somebody could take issue with requiring positive ID to vote.
And, for those who think this policy discriminates against Democrats, I'll point them to Indiana 2008.
This election was notable for a couple reasons.
1) It was the first time the Democratic Party ticket won the Hoosier state's electoral votes since 1964.
2) It was the first presidential election year where Indiana's voter ID law, recently upheld by the Supreme Court, was in effect.
My big problem is that if my wallet is stolen the week or so before an election and the local DMV is only open twice a month. Now I'm not only out my money/creditcards/etc, I've also lost my right to vote.
Nope. You'll vote. It just might not be counted until you can verify your identity.
Georgia's vote participation rate INCREASED after passing a voter ID law.
The credit is awarded to President Obama, but all those voters brought ID to the polls.
EJ is a crank. His token columns are scribbles for cash.
Who knew not paying taxes was a good thing?
The Secretary of the Treasury?
In order to receive food stamps or any other form of welfare you are asked to register to vote. Most people get food stamps on a debit card and unemployment is either on a debt card or a check that requires a photo ID to cash. Even pawn shops require ID and take photos of those pawning. People released from prison get an ID to cash their prison work check and need an ID to get into the building to see a parole officer. I think what the liberals are afraid of is how many different identities that their supporters assume. The biggest problem I see here is that all compromises favor the liberal ledger. Conservatives should begin with the default position, that with no ID you are deported whether born here or not.
This is the same meme that debbie wasserman-schultz was hawking a week or so back. Looks like battlespace preparation for Obama's re-election campaign.
EJ D is getting harder every day to take seriously as he joins Richard Cohen as the WaPo's two resident dunces. He probably doesn't understand his own racism against blacks---hating Clarence Thomas and other true self-made blacks like Herman Cain.
Now that Jon Stewart has admitted liberals are bigots, I stopped worrying about it so much, because he's so hilarious and his fans care so much. I thought I could laugh along with the idea of them collectively holding me back and/or down - which they've done - by merely switching on the TV and rolling along as they're sophisticatedly cracking up when nothing's funny.
E.J.'s apparently working the other way around, though:
Banging out angry screeds while wearing face paint, a red nose, and gigantic floppy shoes.
And, like all real clowns, he's scaring me and the kids.
One of the biggest uncovered stories in America today is how much voter fraud is going on.
I am still registered at my parent's district to vote. I moved out 20 years ago. So is my older brother.
Do they really believe that people don't waltz in, sign a fake name and vote?
ID should be mandatory- anyone against it should be shouted down.
So of E.J. thinks one does NOT need any ID to vote, then can I vote multiple times? Can I let my dead aunts vote?
How about my dogs and cats?
Dionne is just trying to use the Blacks to keep the Dem's hold on congress. He does not care if the vote is honest. He just cares for the liberals.
But I warn you, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. If liberals,unions, and others can fake the vote, so can anyone else.
I believe that our New York/New England ruler class counts on their superiority on race issues as their foundational claim to rulership. So the fact that the rest of the States have left racial issues behind forever is being diligently ignored. The NYT's pronouncements sound more like the Onion than the Onion does. Maybe the NYT will go back to the Spanish Civil war as a foundation for their moral superiority.
So the fact that the rest of the States have left racial issues behind forever is being diligently ignored.
How do you figure we've left it behind forever? I saw Green Latern Saturday night (90 minutes I'll never get back) and had to suffer through not only that steaming pile of crap, but an entire family of loud-talking, phone-call-making, 18-month-old-at-a-9pm-show-having walking racial stereotype.
First, I have the same reaction to Dionne as you all have. Period.
Second, since 9/11 there have been many changes to qualifications for getting various IDs. This has nothing to do with being black/white.
Because of illness and lack of attention my driver's license lapsed a year and one month before I needed it again. (I haven't actually driven for years and in fact don't even have a car or even a friend with one).
My birth certificate disappeared long ago. Yes my fault of course, but I don't know when it happened. I moved around a lot in earlier years and haven't had to show it anywhere for anything for literally decades so who knows and I never even thought much about it thinking that if/when I needed it I could get a copy.
My driver's license transferred from state to state (had to take tests of course) and I haven't had to show my B.C. for anything since the '60's.
Here in Virginia I cannot even get a State ID now---I do NOT have one from ColumnA and one from ColumnB. without a state ID or driver's license I cannot get a copy of my birth certificate from the state where I was born...which I need to get a, you guessed it, VA state ID.
I cannot get Social Security which I'm eligible for, nor medicare, without a copy of my B.C. I do have a valid soc sec # and sporadically get statements from them but that's not enough.
I cannot vote again.
I discovered this when POSSLQ had a heart attack and I tried to move to a first floor apt in the same complex I've been living in for 20 years. I couldn't move downstairs without State ID or current driver's license.
Weird isn't it?
This is not a black/white issue, I think requiring ID's is fine, I just happen to be someone who let herself fall through the cracks for various reasons and am currently up sh&t's creek.
Ain't life grand.
What is ironic about transparent chattering class shills for the Party of Weiners (like EJ Dionne obviously is) is how they use the imagery and rhetoric of slavery to attempt to enslave everyone. It's like the cold-calling crook telling you you'll never be rich unless you hand over all your money to whatever fraud he happens to be peddling.
I had to show my ID twice over the weekend. Once to make a withdrawal at my bank and when I bought a case of beer.
Opposition to voter id is soley cause the left needs to cheat to win.
He is just doing what he is told by the DNC. Last week Debbie Wasserman Schultz issued the decree in a speech. The media propaganda machine is following the meme.
They all seem to forget one thing- Jim Crow was formulated by the Democrats, as were all the racist policies if the past.
But they have revised and sanitized their racist history.
Are we entitled to a voting system that at least attempts to limit voting to actual citizens? This is not racist or violating anyone's civil rights, this is common sense.
I had to show a gov't issued picture ID to pick up a package at UPS last week. According to EJ
UPS = Racists.
without a state ID or driver's license I cannot get a copy of my birth certificate from the state where I was born
I understand what you're getting at here, Syl, but I've got to ask...doesn't the state in question have a mechanism in place for total loss, ie, fire, flood, zombies, etc? Of the last three states I've lived in, all three had such options.
The most racist electoral policy since Jim Crow is the ad hoc gerrymandering of congressional districts so that minority voters are segregated from their natural communities.
What if a court decided that voter ID applied in all districts but those? Wouldn't that be even more racist? It would certainly illuminate the fallacy of Dionne's argument.
I'm glad I'm not black - it sounds horribly debilitating.
Mexico has a much greater divide between classes, and they have ID cards for elections. Since they've issued those, the fraud in Mexican elections has been cleaned up so much that they rival, if not indeed surpass, ours.
Somehow, the people of Mexico across all classes have figured out the system. Any ideas why Dionne thinks American citizens can't do the same?
Contrary to popular belief, I have been able to live a perfectly normal life WITHOUT a driver's license or state ID. I will be on the people alienated from voting.
But I don't vote anyway, so who cares.
Voting is a violent act, when you think about it. When you pull the lever, you're declaring that someone else should have the use of force over your neighbor. The reason why it must be done in secret is because it's immoral.
American Express just called.
Yoiur Race Card is overdrawn.
The reason why it must be done in secret is because it's immoral.
As opposed to abject tyranny or complete anarchy? Yes, I can see how that's a completely understandable position to take.
Dionne needs a punch in his fucking mouth.
Scott M
"I understand what you're getting at here, Syl, but I've got to ask...doesn't the state in question have a mechanism in place for total loss, ie, fire, flood, zombies, etc? Of the last three states I've lived in, all three had such options. "
So far I've gotten nowhere over the phone with soc sec. (I managed to get to the DMV where you apply for state I.D. and nothing good happened there.).
I'm going to have to make a visit to soc sec in person. With no car and no friends with a car and no family within 1000 miles and no public transport it means cab fare--over $20 each way. But I'm doing that next and hopefully things might get resolved in one visit no matter how long I have to wait.
I managed to get to the DMV where you apply for state I.D. and nothing good happened there
Nothing good ever happens at the DMV. Good luck, though, getting through all that red tape. Have you tried getting in touch with the county seat of government where you were born and asking them about a total loss situation?
Short of that, just wander down to the library and look through the digital records to find a baby that died at birth. Assume a new identity and go bandit, Reynolds-style.
Well, one of the "studies" Dionne refers to is "The Myth of Voter Fraud" by Lorraine C. Minnite. In the abstract he provides it states:
"She concludes that while voting irregularities produced by the fragmented and complex nature of the electoral process in the United States are common, incidents of deliberate voter fraud are actually quite rare."
So she admits "irregularities" are "common," she just believes they were mistakes rather than "deliberate" frauds. I wonder how she could tell the difference? Because they denied doing it "deliberately"? Well, wouldn't they? I am a political scientist and this smells like bogus, predetermined research to me.
Ann, your comment is so stupid you should be ashamed. A law professor who can't explain what disparate impact means or the studies which show this diminished voting by minorities and the poor.
You remember the poor, Ann? You're been at war against them and the middle class for some time now. So, rather than reductio ad absurdum, why don't you tell us why Texas would not allow a student ID to vote?
timb said:
"So, rather than reductio ad absurdum, why don't you tell us why Texas would not allow a student ID to vote?"
Well, one reason may be that it is not against the law (and quite easy) to fake a student ID; it is against the law to fake a driver's license. I suppose that makes the latter a safer alternative.
why don't you tell us why Texas would not allow a student ID to vote
Simple. Students might not even be from Texas. Further, there are how many different higher education institutions in Texas with how many different standards for ID? As there's no single standard, how can they expect all the polling locations to be able to comply? If compliance is difficult for the polling locations, would-be fraud and abuse becomes a lot simpler, wouldn't you agree?
Since you raised the specter of the poor suffering under a voter ID law, please explain how the poor manage to navigate other parts of society that require ID.
I've argued this one with some leftists. The argument goes:
1a) Black people are more often than whites born in circumstances where their birth is not reported.
1b) Black people are more often than whites live in circumstances where they have a hard time tracking where/when they were born.
Therefore:
2) Requiring ID backed up by a birth certificate discriminates against black people, and
3) Such a policy is racist.
From which it follows:
4) Proponents of such policies (e.g., the GOP) are aware of all of this and are counting on this to cut down the number of Democratic voters and are being deliberately racist.
why don't you tell us why Texas would not allow a student ID to vote?
You mean other than the fact that students would not meet residency requirements of the state?
or the studies which show this diminished voting by minorities and the poor.
Considering few states have implemented such laws, there are no such "studies"
Their other argument, as proof of racism, is that there are no proven cases of voter fraud and thus this is a solution looking for a problem, again well known to the proponents.
As proof that requiring Voter ID cuts down disproportionately on minority voter participation, I was told that in one juristiction the Hispanic vote dropped 10% when Voter ID was required. I proposed that the reason was not that legal voters couldn't get ID but that 10% of the previous Hispanic vote was cast by illegal aliens. I didn't think that was too much of a stretch. I never got a response on that one.
Dionne is a Commie hack and always has been.
Fen said...
Shorter Dionne: "If you don't let us cheat, you are racist".
After all, how can they rehabilitate ACORN if there are methods to verify who is legally eligible?
Pogo said...
Is racism their only remaining card?
We'll always have homophobia.
Last winter at a pot luck dinner in Florida, a guest sitting across from me asked where I was from. I told him I currently live in Wisconsin, but lived in Chicago for fifty years.
He told me when he was in the Navy, stationed at Great Lakes, north of Chicago, the Democrats sent a bus to Great Lakes and brought sailors to Chicago to vote. They received five dollars for each place they voted.
Funnier yet, while sharing this story with another former Chicago resident who lived across from a cemetery, saw someone copying names from tombstones before elections.
After all, how can they rehabilitate ACORN if there are methods to verify who is legally eligible?
The SCOTUS put a fork in ACORN apparently. Do they vote on what they will and won't hear?
You're been at war against them and the middle class for some time now.
President Obama's policies, whether on purpose or not, have created a level of uncertainty that puts him on the vanguard in the war against the poor and middle class.
There's also a push by the Democrats to register felons for the vote. Here again they assume that felons are part of their natural constituency. I think any fair minded person would agree that Arnold would have just as much appeal to the rapist lobby as would Weiner.
At Syl, do you have an old passport by any chance? I remember using my old one for something once and it was useful even though expired.
It's probably a pain, but I'm sure there is something that will work, if you talk to the right people.
In Arkansas a few years back in addition to your drivers license you could also use your Sam's card and your hunting license to vote. And I used a library card to get on a plane once when my drivers license had expired.
"My big problem is that if my wallet is stolen the week or so before an election and the local DMV is only open twice a month."
You're kidding, right?
Cards don't kill.
Slam the racist card on the table all you want. But blacks have lots their pot of gold! Obama stole a whole class of opportunity.
What we need to get back to, though, is competence.
Remember this. Jackie Robinson broke the black barrier to playing baseball (back in 1945 or 1946), because he knew how to play the game!
The Dodgers, with Robinson, and Campanella, hired shortly after, kept putting the Dodger into the Pennant races. Year after year. And, brought home the World Series Trophy, too.
Go look. Obama's an incompetent. Got no coattails. And, hasn't helped blacks out at all. (Okay. Lots of them expected free homes in the exchange.) Don't matter.
Reality matters.
Obama goes after Israel with belligerence. Israelis never respond to belligerence. Do you know why?
You're better off just letting them spew. They knock themselves out.
Keeping liberals/leftists from cheating, voting multiple times etc... is the real issue. Liberals know this, so they continue to hide behind the charge of racism.
Purple penguine - "My big problem is that if my wallet is stolen the week or so before an election and the local DMV is only open twice a month. Now I'm not only out my money/creditcards/etc, I've also lost my right to vote."
I share your concern.
And what if a meteor destroys the polling place I am supposed to vote at?
Or if I was an absent-minded professor and FORGOT my wallet? Which in a way disenfranchises academia, not just blacks.
I guess the Democrat position is the FAIREST, right? Vote early, vote late, vote at any polling place you want, and vote with no ID.
And if I was locked up and missed voting for 4 elections...isn't it fair that I be allowed to vote 4 times in the next election?
"And what if a meteor destroys the polling place"
Damn. Something else to worry about.
It just goes to show, it's always something. If it's not one thing, it's another ...
You mean other than the fact that students would not meet residency requirements of the state?
You mean, they can't register to vote then? Problem solved. These are, often, state institutions issuing an id. How is one state institution different from another? How is UT different from the organization which hands out gun permits, which are obviously easier to fake than a student id?
Point is, just admit it's for partisan advantage? I thought y'all were hard-nosed political players who don't need niceties. The fact that the Indiana AG's office has yet to identify or prosecute anyone for multiple fraudulent voting --STILL none-- destroys the silly notion that elections have been stolen. They have not.
This is a poll tax to exercise a constitutional right (which is not, Hoosier dad, the same as buying a case of beer).
Ann could have described the VRA's Section 2 or Section 5, you could have referred to Crawford v Marion County and cited the liberal Justice Stevens's majority opinion on the facial matter before the Court. Instead, she makes a silly accusation against Dionne and counts on a chorus of right-wingers to repeat the garbage Fox news and Rush feed them everyday: "If it ain't hard for a middle-aged white guy to vote, then it ain't hard for anyone to vote."
It's just lazy and she should do better.
Point is, just admit it's for partisan advantage?
The would require you admitting the adverse proposition, ie, not having Voter ID is a Democratic partisan advantage, wouldn't it?
You didn't address the second part of that question, though. How do the poor and middle class, hell, ANYBODY, navigate modern society without an ID?
I'm curious ....what other countries on earth allow voting in their elections without ID of some kind?
Oh, my, now good ole Attorney General Eric Holder said at a speech to the American Constitution Society...[vis a vis civil rights criminal violation enforcement]
"We've also expanded enforcement efforts to guarantee that in our work places, our military bases, in our housing and lending markets, in our voting booths in our border areas, in our schools and places of worship. And I mean all places of worship," Holder also said.
Doesn't say what he's guaranteeing exactly, nor what business he has in churches, mosques and synagogues.
But it fits nicely with the NYT drivel, eh?
Pogo said...
"Is racism their only remaining card?"
No. They also have Jon Stewart.
_
This has nothing to do with racism, and it has nothing to do with fairness in the voting booth. It has everything to do with E. J. Dionne. He likes to see this--of all things--as the civil rights issue of the moment, and fancies himself at the forefront of it. I'm sure when he's alone, perhaps whilst touching himself, he closes his eyes and sees himself standing next to Dr. King at the lectern before raucous crowds: "We shall overcome," etc. Also, it shows the disgusting paternalism inherent in today's progressive Left. "Po' dumb negroes can't drive themselves to the DMV for an ID. Good thing we white liberals are here to hold their hand and help them on their way."
It's not today's civil rights issue. It's today's White Man's Burden. It'd be nice if those stupid fools, black or white, would admit as much.
Any chance Dionne's columns are NOT just pulled right off the fax machine after the topic has been "researched" for him by the Bookings Institute or the Economic Policy Institute or one of the Soros / Podesta think tanks?
DionnE; "Nationwide exit polls show that John McCain carried households in which someone owned a gun by 25 percentage points but lost voters in households without a gun by 32 points."
Conclusion?
JIM CROW IS COMIN'!!!1
Sounds to me like the conclusion should be "get more ]legal] guns in African-American households and watch them vote Republican.
And timb's comments are among the best I've ever seen at "begging the question" [i.e. assuming the answer prior to the debate].
As a long-time resident of IL, I can tell you that I have personally witnessed more than a few cases of vote fraud, hardly any of them [due to where I lived] involving African-Americans, and involving both Dems and GOPs.
The reason there isn't more record of vote-fraud cases is that it is almost always done by the local majority party, and they control the mechanisms by which such fraud would be investigated and brought to trial.
I have to assume that timb is at the very least a rabid partisan whose ideology blinds him in the search for truth, and at worst a deliberate apologist for criminality which he knows exists.
Syl, are you sure you need current ID to get a copy of your birth certificate? I've done so myself simply by writing a letter (and sending something like $12 for a processing fee) to the proper address for my birth state. You can find yours here. I never had to show any form of ID.
Apparently, some Democrats are dumb as posts, never buy cigarettes or liquor, cannot drive cars, are illiterate, do not get student loans, Medicare or Medicaid, do not have Social Security numbers, do not have credit cards nor write checks, and have never filled out any government paperwork before.
Never rented a movie at Blockbuster
Cashed a check at a check-cashing place.............
Bought clothing w/a charge card at the outlet mall in The Dells, WI.....
Go to a casino.............
wv -weefema?
Is it a poll tax
or is it
LIFE?
Life is a poll tax?
Well, of course. Have a conversation with a liberal about poverty, and watch how long it takes for him to accuse you of being a racist if you oppose some anti-poverty programs.
Of course, if you point out that he's made the bigoted assumption that poor = black, he'll double-down and say it was implied in your tone. Oh, and you're a conservative, which means you are a de facto bigot and morally suspect.
The demand that we should just trust everybody to follow the voting laws just blows me away.
Dionne has merely pointed out the tip of the iceberg. There are many other ways in which the poor and the incapacitated are prevented from voting.
To vote in person, you have to know where to vote. Numerous studies have shown that the homeless are less likely to know where they themselves are at any moment than are the homed. They are certainly less likely to know where to vote. Also, non-English speakers may not be able to read street signs, thereby being differentially unable to find a polling place.
To cast an absentee vote, you not only have to be able to find out where to get an absentee ballot, but you have to be able to figure out and purchase the correct postage. This is clearly a poll tax.
The only way to eliminate these barriers is to implement implicit voting. Study after study shows that it is quite a simple matter to predict peoples voting patterns based on race, sex, age, ethnicity, occupation, tattoos, gun ownership, and percussive skill with plastic buckets. To require people to perform the daunting task of actually voting is to impose an unconstitutional barrier to the accurate representation of their interests and desires. All that is necessary is to establish that people can be presumed to have voted in accordance with the specific social group to which they are deemed to belong.
Implicit voting can be carried out at remarkably low cost by a respected nonpartisan organization such as the Brookings Institution. Only then will we be truly free of the burden imposed by active choice.
I did appreciate Jon Stewart's acknowledgement yesterday that conservatives are justified to be angry at being called racists all the time.
How is UT different from the organization which hands out gun permits, which are obviously easier to fake than a student id?
"Gun permits" are easier to fake than student ID's?
Really?
Your proof of this is____?
The fact that the Indiana AG's office has yet to identify or prosecute anyone for multiple fraudulent voting --STILL none-- destroys the silly notion that elections have been stolen. They have not.
You talking about 1 state "proves" elections have not been stolen, how, again?
And here I thought Bush stole the 2000 election!
This is a poll tax to exercise a constitutional right
So when I have to provide a passport type photo graph, $14 for fingerprints, and a certificate saying I passed a gun safety course (cost $30) in order to carry a concealed handgun, that isn't a poll tax, right?
@Chip - Democratic operatives have called for implicit voting in the past (they didn't call it that). Case in point; they claimed that ballots in Florida that showed Deomcratic votes down-ballot but left the Presidential race blank should have been counted for Gore during the recount. Clearly those people meant to vote for Gore.
"..."If it ain't hard for a middle-aged white guy to vote, then it ain't hard for anyone to vote."..."
Yes? I mean how hard is it to vote? How hard is it to provide an id that's proves you are the person on the roll? You act as if the process is the equivalent of cleaning the augean stables.
Methinks you protest too much.
But Hoosier, what is somebody steals your wallet one week before election day?
But Hoosier, what is somebody steals your wallet one week before election day?
In Arkansas the DMV is open every day.
In Arkansas the DMV is open every day.
What if your car is stolen, too? How will you get to the DMV? Taxi fare would be a poll tax, you know.
Hell, so would the cost of the gas to drive to the DMV. Perhaps gasoline is a human right.
But Hoosier, what if somebody steals your wallet one week before election day?
A point of order; newly elected, or re-elected, government officials wait until being sworn in to start stealing your wallet.
ScottM, Haven 't you heard of "campaign contributions"?
wv dectif: a PI who's not into tech gizmos.
But Hoosier, what is somebody steals your wallet one week before election day?.."
Heh. That was by far the lamest excuse I have seen.
The Overacting Negro Ensemble is alive and well in E.J.
Your honor, don't think of it as me stealing that man's wallet. Think of it as a tax. I mean really, what's the difference between what I did and the 90% tax in effect just a few short decades ago. A measely 10%. Ten-percent. What's that? It is but a trivel.
"Heh. That was by far the lamest excuse I have seen."
I don't think you fully grasp the seriousness of the situation. Not only would you not get to vote. But the thief would. And dollars to donuts he'd vote for the other guy. That's like stealing two votes from you.
Chip S. ... please tell us you're being sarcastic.
Also, non-English speakers may not be able to read street signs, thereby being differentially unable to find a polling place.
Wow. Happens I live in a 90% minority community, one where English is hardly the first language. Funny how all my neighbors get the polling place just like me. There are advocacy groups that guide them if need be, and they do vote. In fact they seem quite proud of it.
I think, if you're not being sarcastic, that you are demeaning people simply because they're different [Than you? Than who?].....which does not mean stupid or ignorant.
Aridog, Chip was absolutely being sarcastic. Sadly, the "what if my wallet is lost the week before the election and the dmv is only open twice a month" guy was probably serious.
Another threat to the sanctity of the polls.
I might take Dionne seriously, if, after saying:
In a democracy, the electorate is supposed to pick the politicians. With these laws, politicians are shaping their electorates.
he at least put in a token complaint against gerrymandering.
He doesn't.
The fact that the Indiana AG's office has yet to identify or prosecute anyone for multiple fraudulent voting --STILL none-- destroys the silly notion that elections have been stolen.
The fact that people haven't been prosecuted proves nothing. The system is designed to facilitate fraud. Just how would you go about proving anything when poll workers aren't allowed to ask for ID? There are no cameras. There are no thumbprints.
Even when the fraud is eggregious nothing happens. I encourage you to look into the 1996 CA-47 House election, where Loretta Sanchez was seated despite compelling evidence non-citizen voters put her over the top. More than 600 illegal voters were identified, but nothing was done. No prosecutions. Just a small fine for the acorn-type group that was organizing it.
In my state, state-issued non-driving ID cards are cheap, ~$5 as I recall, and if you say you're poor and can't afford that, it is free. Dione raises non-issue for partisan political reasons.
But Hoosier, what is somebody steals your wallet one week before election day?.."
Well, if you really want to know:
Provisional Ballots
I don't think you fully grasp the seriousness of the situation. Not only would you not get to vote. But the thief would.
Provided he's your twin brother. (That's what the photo is for...)
Wallets DO get stolen. A lot of DMV offices in Wisconsin ARE only open a couple times a month. (People who actually live in our state should be aware of this.)
Responding to those actual& real situations with "a meteor strike might hit a polling place" makes it pretty clear that ya'll don't wish to have a reasonable discussion on this issue. I guess I should've known better than to even try with this crowd.
A lot of DMV offices in Wisconsin ARE only open a couple times a month
I saw someone make that statement earlier and I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. How is this possible? Are we talking the most rural of cheese heads here? What do the pencil-pushing finger printers do else-while?
PurplePenquin: You really think a policy issue of this magnitude should be decided on the possibilty that some voter somewhere may have their wallet stolen without enough time to get a replacement ID?
Syl, are you sure you need current ID to get a copy of your birth certificate? I've done so myself simply by writing a letter (and sending something like $12 for a processing fee) to the proper address for my birth state. You can find yours here. I never had to show any form of ID.
A request for a Certified Copy of your Birth Certificate generally requires a Notary stamp so that the County officials are guaranteed that you are who you say you are. Not that I'm calling you a liar.....however, I think you must be making the story up or have some severe memory issues.
As a Notary, there are several types of ID that I can take that will satisfy the legal requirements that I have proved or verified your identity. Among which are: Driver's license, military id, Inmate id, passport, city or county employee id.
If I can't identify you, you don't get a stamp. You also have to personally appear before me and sign in front of me.
If you have no id, there is such a thing as a subscribing witness. The subscribing witness must personally know the identity of the document signer and the subscribing witness must be personally known by the notary public, or if the notary does not personally know the subscribing witness, then his or her identity must be established, or proved, by a third party. That third party must personally know the subscribing witness and be personally known by the notary public. That third party is called a credible witness who will verify the identity of the Subscribing witness. The subscribing witness may not use a driver's license or other form of identification but must be personally known by the notary public, or by one credible witness. Two credible witnesses may not be used so at least one person must be personally known by the notary or the notary act cannot be completed.
I have even had an inmate brought to my office, in handcuffs, by one of the guards at the local "con camp" that I knew personally. The gurard was a subscribing witness in order to get a document notarized.
Identification IS required to get a copy of your birth certificate, even if it isn't YOUR ID.
ID should be required for voting.
It isn't fucking rocket science to get a driver's license. If you are completely illiterate, blind, can't sign then there are plenty of accomodations and organizations that are there to help you.
Geez. We already get a history month where we pretend black culture is something to be worshipped. We have an incompetent diversity hire of a President elected to office primarily because he is black. And now we are told that blacks are too lazy to get a valid ID? Why do black people put up with this?
E.J. Dionne is one of the most boring and turgid pundits who I have ever read. Pompous, self-referential and wholly lacking in insight. I dismiss what ever he say out of hand just for those reasons alone.
I was a judge for the 2010 elections. We required ID. 99% had a driver's license.
Those who didn't or weren't on our checklist for that polling location were given a provisional ballot and instructed their vote counts, just a little after the preliminary returns come in, and as long as you are a legal voter.
The entire process was what I expected, and I was honored to have taken my part in my minor role.
Other states can do this too, as so goes the tasting to prove the pudding so goes the current states operating under the proposed rules.
A request for a Certified Copy of your Birth Certificate generally requires a Notary stamp so that the County officials are guaranteed that you are who you say you are.
"Generally"? It really is bad form to accuse someone of spreading falsehoods and then throw in weasel words like that.
I assure you this isn't (or wasn't) the case in every state. I really did just send them a letter requesting a copy. There were new laws requiring you to prove your right to work and I didn't have enough to satisfy the law without the BC. The state (or county, I don't recall) of my birth sent the copy without demanding anything more than the processing fee.
I suppose it's possible they didn't apply the rules in my case, but there wasn't any reason not to. It never came up.
Also, when I went to college people in my dorm were getting fake IDs by requesting BC copies from other states and using them to get a valid license under a false name. Which would, I suppose, be a reason to require a notary.
Can someone please educate the terminally offended that it wasn't the Poll Tax per se that got such Jim Crow legislation over turned? It was arbitrary _literacy tests_ where a poll worker could look at a cracker, ask him if he could make his mark and pass him but ask a Black man to discuss Aristotle and fail him?
It was the arbitrary nature of the application of the laws...arbitrariness with which poll workers could stop Blacks from voting...that was the problem (along with such factors that separate was not equal and thus literacy tests were unfair thereby). Laws which are designed to be arbitrary in application relying on the judgement of the enforcer alone are always wrong and usually violate the 4th.
None of these voter ID laws meet that test. The standards of application are uniform and the ability to get the required document are not onerous.
If people are too stupid to think of voting until election day, they should stay home. They are a clear and present danger to democracy.
Mercado de DivisasSchulbuecher kaufen
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