"Somehow, that’s a nice, final touch. But it speaks to what bin Laden was: a bag of bones and meat. A body, like any other. Most of what changed in this country after 9/11 was our choice, not his. And his death is a reminder that changing it back -- or revising it to better fit our future -- is, similarly, our choice, not his. We’ve killed him, but we haven’t revisited the ways in which he changed us, or the ways in which wechanged us in response to his attack. Maybe it’s time we did."
The lefty meme is: It's all about us.
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477 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 477 Newer› Newest»I mean they didn't bury Elvis at sea and his followers still think he is alive.
We might end up with a whole slew of Osama Bin Laden impersonators.
Jeremy said...
edutcher - "There's more than one Jeremy - it's just a writing style, just as the exact same guys are all also Alpha, shiloh, franglo, J...., which are different writing styles all saying the same thing."
Based on the fact that 90% of the regular teabaggers here every day of the week, regurgitate the same right wing drivel over and over and over again...always agreeing, never countering...that comment really takes some guts.
Duh.
And this is a difference from the same people barfing up the exact same KosKid talking points, how?
Actually, there's a variety of opinion on the Right here from Conservative to Libertarian to RINO.
All the Jeremys see is that they there is no Islam to the Left.
How dare they!
The "Duh" is silent.
Or should be.
Can't you just imagine getting married in a casino in Dubai by an Osama Bin Laden impersonator?
Hoosier - "I have also been accused of being a bigot and racist for stating that."
No, I've accused you of being a bigot when you denigrate those with whom you disagree because of their religious or culteral beliefs.
I wonder how many have the GPS coordinates of the body dump.
It's just a click of the cell phone.
Somebody clicked.
Coming this fall on the Discovery Channel....
The Hunt For Dead Osama.
"Their nukes have just been languishing for this moment?"
If west coast states can pick up the ultra tiny amounts of material from Japan, I'm guessing (hoping) it'd be hard to get a nuke over here.
I've read that someone was picked-up by the gov because her cat w/ some sort of nuclear tracers (for a medical procedure) set off an alarm as she was driving on the highway near the Canadian border. I'm to lazy to Google for the facts.
On the other hand, presumably shielding can contain the radiation. I dunno.
He is simply saying it was a good call to follow Islamic practices for the dead.
Not in this case and I'd like proof we follow the Islamic practices for the dead for every Muslim we kill. Otherwise, we're grandstanding.
But in no way did he say "it is all about us."
Of course not, but that doesn't mean he's not doing it. Selfish people usually deny being selfish.
Unless you're a teabagging sycophant, you couldn't possibly be patriotic.
Dissent is patriotic.
Photos won't cut it. Nor will eyewitness accounts. Only forensic evidence of DNA and a full autopsy will put the rest any claims of imposters to be Osama. The way this was done only plays into the hands of anyone who wants to claim he is still alive.
This burial at sea was not necessay and a big mistake. They could have waited a couple of days.
No, I've accused you of being a bigot when you denigrate those with whom you disagree because of their religious or culteral beliefs.
Then you're a liar because I never denigrated anyone because I disagreed with thier religious or cultural beliefs.
Trooper York "Anybody who wants to avoid trouble down the road. Who realizes that there was no reason to rush to bury him at sea. Unless there was a reason?"
It's my understand that no one would accept the body.
WASHINGTON (AP) — A U.S. official says Osama bin Laden has been buried at sea.
After bin Laden was killed in a raid by U.S. forces in Pakistan, senior administration officials said the body would be handled according to Islamic practice and tradition.
That practice calls for the body to be buried within 24 hours, the official said. Finding a country willing to accept the remains of the world's most wanted terrorist would have been difficult, the official said.
So the U.S. decided to bury him at sea.
The official, who spoke Monday on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive national security matters, did not immediately say where that occurred.
A belief of the living. The dead have no beliefs nor wishes.
"Right. So when someone dies, we just take his money and give it to whomever we want."
You betcha. Just like the Federal Government and the Estate Tax.
Thank you.
On the other hand, presumably shielding can contain the radiation. I dunno.
Well I think those US service personnel who work with our nuclear weapons certainly hope so.
/faceroll
"I wonder how many have the GPS coordinates of the body dump."
I'm guessing there was a person or two on the Carl Vinson.
Hoosier - Are you saying you've never posted a comment that denigrates Islam, Muslims or president Obama?
Only forensic evidence of DNA and a full autopsy will put the rest any claims of imposters to be Osama
They got a piece of him for DNA that matched his sister before they heaved him overboard.
When there is a murder or suspicious death of a Muslim or Orthordox Jew in NYC an autopsy is done even if it means that they have to wait more than the 24 hours that is customary for burial. There have been many dispustes and lawsuits over this practice. I think the full resources of the US could have performed the autopsy within the time limit. If they did that, then there is no problem if they release the records. If they didn't do that then there is a potential problem that could have been avoided.
Unless of course it is just incompetence and haste driven by political correctness.
That of course I would accept.
Hoosier - Are you saying you've never posted a comment that denigrates Islam, Muslims or president Obama?
Curious that you include President Obama in this particular discussion. Not sure what he has to do with Islam or Muslims.
Anyway...I have posted many criticisms of Islam and Muslims just as many have posted criticisms of Christianity and Christians. If for yourcriticism is synonomous with denigration then I can't help that.
If that is true garage than I have no problem with what they did even if it seem really strange.
I look forward to the release of this evidence for independent verification by forensic experts.
I don't say he is alive Garage. It shouldn't be a problem for them to follow normal legal criminal procedure which is what they claim they want to do in terrorism cases isn't it?
Good point, Trooper.
Let's say KSM dies at Gitmo.
Do we take him out to sea and dump him before anybody here sees him?
What if, when we find the guy who has been dumping bodies on the beaches of Long Island, he dies in a police shoot out. Do the police take him out to sea and dump him in 24 hours?
This says: Yay! We got your guy! But we are still really scared of you and we hope you like us if we do this nice thing.
Via another site:
Just heard on BBC the house was only built five years ago with military permission!
They got a piece of him for DNA that matched his sister before they heaved him overboard.
So they say.
It's so weird and a bit depressing that good news such as this ultimately turns into a petty political squabble on the blogs.
Can't the left and the right just let it rest for a day or so?
Bin Laden is dead. The operation to kill him was a success. It's win win folks. Step back. Lighten up.
Seeing Red "Just heard on BBC the house was only built five years ago with military permission!"
There's no way the Pakistani military and government didn't know about the mansion. It's a huge compound, with 12-15 foot high walls and massive security.
That's exactly why we didn't notify them of the raid.
If they have this evidence I am sure they will release it. Right?
DADvocate "So they say."
So now we have the deather movement?
Trooper York "If they have this evidence I am sure they will release it. Right?"
I would assume so.
Do you not?
Do you believe he's dead?
Obama owes his political recovery to waterboarding.
Whoda thunk it?
Crab munching on Osama bin Laden: "Hey tastes like chicken!"
If they have this evidence I am sure they will release it. Right?
To make sure that..... the military isn't lying and making this all up? This is starting to sound truther-esque. Or birther-esque
Well the reason this is the way it is Matt is the deep reservoir of respect and mutual appreciation that was cultivated by this administration and how it has dealt with people that it does not agree with. So to speak.
It seems the burial at sea is not something Islamic scholars find acceptable.
Muslim clerics said Monday that Osama bin Laden's burial at sea was a violation of Islamic tradition....
Although there appears to be some room for debate over the burial -- as with many issues within the faith -- a wide range of senior Islamic scholars interpreted it as a humiliating disregard for the standard Muslim practice of placing the body in a grave with the head pointed toward the holy city of Mecca.
and this
A U.S. official said the burial decision was made after concluding that it would have been difficult to find a country willing to accept the remains. There was also speculation about worry that a grave site could have become a rallying point for militants.
Sounds to me like the burial was the perfect solution.
Hoosier - "Curious that you include President Obama in this particular discussion. Not sure what he has to do with Islam or Muslims."
Racism isn't "curious."
Unless you're trying to say that none of your denigrating comments relating to president Obama could be construed as being racist.
We both know that's bullshit.
The miltary has to follow orders. Sometimes the people who issue those order have motives that while pure and good are still mistaken.
See Pat Tillman.Just sayn.
It seems the burial at sea is not something Islamic scholars find acceptable.
Muslim clerics said Monday that Osama bin Laden's burial at sea was a violation of Islamic tradition....
I wonder if they had any thoughts on bin Laden's acts of terrorism and how they fit with that tradition.
I'm glad Danny Pearl received the proper Jewish burial.
Racism isn't "curious."
Unless you're trying to say that none of your denigrating comments relating to president Obama could be construed as being racist.
We both know that's bullshit.
I'm sure you can point out one of my denigrating comments about President Obama.
You really are flailing about aren't you. Heh.
Again, I am happy to see you acknowledge that we're more respectful and morally grounded than other cultures.
Matt, then why are we saying that we did it to appease the Muslim world? That's a stupid goal, but if it was the goal, then you're saying we failed.
Hoosier Daddy
I wonder if they had any thoughts on bin Laden's acts of terrorism and how they fit with that tradition.
Good point. It certainly doesn't matter what they think. I just wanted to point out that the burual was not something that was traditional or even respectful. Yet somehow it was the right thing to do.
Ezra Klein (subtext) - To think this started with the evil CIA grabbing and interrogating a courier "suspect" at Bagram AFB without Mirandizing him or have an ACLU lawyer present at interrogation. Then two years passed because we failed to win bin Laden's courier suspect's affection and trust and the information - always lies from any non-civilian questioning - had to be verified.
Then how we disresspected Pakistan by not asking them to send police with a proper arrest warrant and a team of Euro-ACLU human rights lawyers to the compound.
Just trigger happy Navy SEAL cowboys, evil CIA agents - who killed 3 innocent civilians at the compound. And deprived the world of a 10 year long civilian justice trial. Or having the ultimate moral authority - the Hague, handle bin Laden and the Bush-Cheney-Obama little Hitler killers in adjoining cells.
Burial at sea? THis will offend a vast number of peaceful muslims and drive them into terrorism. Be VERY afraid of the righteous Islamic payback.
As a progressive Jew and somewhat of an American, I am deeply ashamed of America for this and so many other stupid, ill-advised acts since 9/11 that did not place suspect rights paramount!"
End Ezra Klein subtext..
And the copters took OBL to the USS Vinson. Really?
Have you looked at a map?
Assuming KSM is sentenced to death, will he be buried at sea?
@Jeremy
"Hoosier - "Curious that you include President Obama in this particular discussion. Not sure what he has to do with Islam or Muslims."
Racism isn't "curious."
Unless you're trying to say that none of your denigrating comments relating to president Obama could be construed as being racist.
We both know that's bullshit."
What's bullshit is your weak and flailing attempts to call these things you disagree with 'racism'. Really, the racism card was old, long ago. Apparently you haven't figured that out yet, you just love to try and keep it going.
When you don't really have an argument - sometimes its best to not talk about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3cGfrExozQ
From an article published in Salon and The Muslim Observer in November of 2001 by Dr. Muqtedar Khan, Assistant Professor of Political Science at Adrian College in Michigan:
"[Bin Laden] has attacked the moral fabric of Muslim life by glorifying terrorism. He is trying to embroil the Muslim Ummah in a global war of death and destruction by calling the American war on Bin Laden as a war on Islam. His use of Islamic values have made Muslims look like terrorists and in most parts of the world people are associating Islam with violence and Muslims with terror. This man does not have the interest of Islam or Muslims at heart. He is an enemy of Islam and Muslims and should be treated as such."
So, if 'moderate' Muslims really believe Bin Laden is "an enemy of Islam and Muslims" then why accord him treatment which he does not deserve when we do not do so for the average Taliban we kill?
The answer is in the numbers of Muslims who support Bin Laden.
According to Pew, in 2009 25% of the Muslim world outside America(64% of Palestineans) supported Bin Laden believing he "would do the right thing regarding world affairs". (Note that 23% supported suicide bombing against Americans and other Westerners as the 'enemies' of Islam.)
That 25% translates to over 375 million Muslims out there who support Bin Laden...
If I were President, regardless of the actual circumstances, I would tell Muslims that Bin Laden's body was treated per full Islamic tradition only because in the cold calculus of such things it would help make killing the next Al Qaida leaders less difficult.
To the kneejerkers, that is not the same as advocating defiling of his corpse. I think his corpse should be treated with all respect due and leave it to those who captured and killed him to make that determination.
Hoosier - "I wonder if they had any thoughts on bin Laden's acts of terrorism and how they fit with that tradition."
No doubt all the Mullahs and ACLU lawyers will mention bin Ladens tradition as they spend this weekend praising his demise but bemoaning the death at infidel's hands or the failure to follow Rule of Law and respect Binnies "precious rights" in the "extrajudicial assassination".
Then again, maybe the Mosques worldwide and ACLU gathering spots will just be respectfully silent about the whole thing.
You know, crickets chirping...
Freeman Hunt
Then why are we saying that we did it to appease the Muslim world?
I think it is a combination of both respect and necessity based on the situation. I don't think they would come out and say "we made the bastard shark bait."
My reading of the ABC link is that they washed the body and did the customary prayers, which is in accordance with Muslim law. But that the burial itself was as much in accordance as they could do under the circumstances. Half follows tradition and the other half did not necessarily follow tradition.
Still everyone has an opinion. I’m sure many in the Muslim world are upset that bin Laden was killed. Screw them.
"If west coast states can pick up the ultra tiny amounts of material from Japan, I'm guessing (hoping) it'd be hard to get a nuke over here."
One doesn't follow from the other. We knew where to look for Japanese fallout (everywhere), whereas inspecting everything coming into the US is a far different task.
Seems to me that if the President wants to see if making these gestures will help in some manner, that he has earned that right by killing the sonofabitch.
In fact, liberals can be as mushy sounding as they want as long as they keep killing the bad guys.
"Muslim clerics said Monday that Osama bin Laden's burial at sea was a violation of Islamic tradition...."
Gee, that's too bad.
"There was also speculation about worry that a grave site could have become a rallying point for militants."
Have they never heard of fly paper? Maybe we missed an opportunity.
Heh. You do have to wonder how much of our official burial account is true. Probably much easier to toss the body bag in the water and then go off to write a fictional, diplomatic account for the press.
Obama notifies Bush:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02/bush-finds-out-about-osama_n_856203.html
EnigmatiCore "In fact, liberals can be as mushy sounding as they want as long as they keep killing the bad guys."
Teabagger drivel.
Osama is dead and a liberal was running the show.
Suck on that.
Don't Tread 2012 - Teabagger drivel.
Fuck off.
Freeman Hunt said: "Evidence that they are in disarray? Their organization is not centralized. Osama bin Laden is symbolically important, but I don't know that he's operationally important."
Until today, I would've sworn that was true.
But seeing how Osama was living in the equivalent, say, of the Bond villain lairs in "For Your Eyes Only" or "Octopussy"-- (I mean Louis Jourdan, not Maud Adams)? A stone's throw from Pakistan's Military Academy?
He obviously had much better friends even than we would've imagined. And it wouldn't surprise me now if we find he was much more operationally engaged than had come to be assumed.
I have no problem if they followed Muslim protocol. But what irritates me, and makes Obama look weak, is the desperate reassurance that, oh yeah, we killed Osama but we treated him with respect in death, please don't be too mad, I'm really a cool guy and like Muslims!
A small comment at the end of Brennan's description of the burial at sea would have been sufficient.
Pogo "Obama owes his political recovery to waterboarding. Whoda thunk it?"
A better question is this: How do YOU know waterboarding had anything to do with any of this?
Other than usual teabagger horse shit?
"Seven Machos said...
self-serving hypocrisy
What is self-serving hypocritical about being respectful of the body of the political figure you just assassinated?"
Klein among others cheer our treating Bin Laden's body according to Islamic custom. But he among others lectured us for a decade that Bin Laden doesn't follow Islam. So according to Klein and others Bin Laden is Muslim when it advances his argument, and not Muslim when that advances his argument. This is often referred to as self-serving.
PatCA - So, one day after initiating and approving the operation that took out Osama Bin Laden, Obama looks "weak?"
And you throw this is for good measure?
"...oh yeah, we killed Osama but we treated him with respect in death, please don't be too mad, I'm really a cool guy and like Muslims!"
You're a fucking idiot.
But seeing how Osama was living in the equivalent, say, of the Bond villain lairs in "For Your Eyes Only" or "Octopussy"-- (I mean Louis Jourdan, not Maud Adams)? A stone's throw from Pakistan's Military Academy?
Oh, no, haven't you heard? Pakistan is so mad that we didn't tell them about our operation first because they too are 100% committed to fighting al Qaeda. ;)
So now we have the deather movement?
Quite curious how is body is gone before they tell us he's dead. The DNA? Doesn't he have a lot of siblings? Quit suspicious how all this comes off just when Obama's numbers are polling really bad.
Is "deather" the best term? How about graver since the doubt he's in the grave? You know Bush had fore knowledge of the attack on the World Trade Center, don't you? Lot's of Demockrats believe that.
Jeremy, reading comprehension is not your strong suit. I don't think you could have misinterpreted my comment more if you tried.
So Jews are just "somewhat Americans" to you, Cedarford? My battle of the bulge dad, from the grave, just told me not to dishonor his memory by lowering myself to your level and calling you what you are.
Joaquin "And the copters took OBL to the USS Vinson. Really? Have you looked at a map?"
Have you taken the time to read anything??
"Bin Laden's corpse was taken to Afghanistan to have his DNA tested for positive identification. The body was then flown to the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson, officials told ABC News and he was buried at sea." (ABC)
"One doesn't follow from the other. We knew where to look for Japanese fallout (everywhere), whereas inspecting everything coming into the US is a far different task."
The gov is always looking everywhere.
Data circa 2008: The Washington Post recently reported that since 2000 U.S. customs officers have responded to 318,000 radiation-detection alarms, but have so far turned up no illegal material.
And, the detectors are very accurate. We're not talking about levels that are remotely dangerous.
I don't know if a terrorist could shield nuke material. I'm guessing that it's not so easy for a small organization to build and assemble a fully shielded device w/o any trace material unshielded.
EnigmatiCore - "Jeremy, reading comprehension is not your strong suit. I don't think you could have misinterpreted my comment more if you tried."
I understood exactly what you were implying.
It's nothing more than the standard right wing bullshit.
(The Crypto Jew)
So Jews are just "somewhat Americans" to you, Cedarford? My battle of the bulge dad, from the grave, just told me not to dishonor his memory by lowering myself to your level and calling you what you are.
Are you new here? You’re JUST figuring out what C4 is?
Jeremy, no you didn't. Read it again.
He was saying that liberals acted like badasses and killed him, so it doesn't matter if they want to talk like lame-oes.
I put it as colloquially as possible there for you.
"I don't think you could have misinterpreted my comment more if you tried."
But he is trying, Enigmatic, all the time, LOL!
DADvocate "Quite curious how is body is gone before they tell us he's dead. The DNA? Doesn't he have a lot of siblings? Quit suspicious how all this comes off just when Obama's numbers are polling really bad."
What exactly is "curious" about the circumstances described...other than the fact that it was Obama versus Bush who is in charge at the moment?
And one would assume the DNA was indeed matched to a "sibling's."
And, as inferring that this is all about Obama's polling numbers; he's running right at about 46/46 according to the latest Gallup polls.
You're a deather...and I bet you're a birther, too.
Is there some way to relegate Jeremy and Alex to a "virtual closet" where they could shout back and forth at each other. I'm sure they'd love it and it would make things a whole lot better "out here".
PS Jeremy, given how much you use it, does fuck off mean see you later in your native tongue?
Or, in a family-friendly phrasing- what one does speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what one says.
They did great, and gives me a lot of confidence in what they are doing in terms of foreign policy.
Most everyone, including the jihadis, believes he's dead. They know us, and regardless of what they say, they know they can trust us about something like this. They know we are better than them. Jeremy is right about that. It's what really pisses them and Jeremy off. That we, including the neocons, and W., are better than their best, economically, militarily AND morally. It sucks to be un-American - you eat a lot of crow.
Freeman Hunt I know what he's implying, dipstick.
And I also have no idea what you mean when you say liberals "talk like lame-oes."
Got some examples for us?
Bag o'Shit - So now, let me get this straight:
You say: "They know we are better than them. Jeremy is right about that. It's what really pisses them and Jeremy off."
So I'm upset because "we are better than them?"
Are you drunk?
EnigmatiCore "They did great, and gives me a lot of confidence in what they are doing in terms of foreign policy."
As well it should.
Correct?
I implied nothing.
I thought I said it straight out- liberals like to 'talk nice', and to bow to the altars of diplomacy and political correctness.
Which is fine by me, as long as they kill the bad guys.
Phil 3:14 - Fuck off.
@jeremy
"Don't Tread 2012 - Teabagger drivel.
Fuck off."
Heh, so your second fallback, the ad hominem...
Really Jeremy, as a commenter here you are a verbal drive-by terrorist. Thrash, thrash, thrash.
As a person, can you say that you aren't a waste of skin?
I'll spare you the trouble, Jeremy - I will go and 'fuck off' now ;)
Have a nice day.
EnigmatiCore "I thought I said it straight out- liberals like to 'talk nice', and to bow to the altars of diplomacy and political correctness."
And you're full of shit.
Obama's overseen the killing of more high ranking terrorists than Bush, deported more illegal aliens than Bush, and now he's taken out Osama Bin Laden.
And it's killing the local teabaggers to admit it.
I love every minute of it, too.
Don't Tread 2012 - Don't let the door hit you in the ass.
"The gov is always looking everywhere.
Data circa 2008: The Washington Post recently reported that since 2000 U.S. customs officers have responded to 318,000 radiation-detection alarms, but have so far turned up no illegal material.
And, the detectors are very accurate. We're not talking about levels that are remotely dangerous.
I don't know if a terrorist could shield nuke material. I'm guessing that it's not so easy for a small organization to build and assemble a fully shielded device w/o any trace material unshielded."
You have a poor comprehension of the difficulty of the task. At our departmental retreat a few years ago, we started blue skying ways to deliver nuclear material in a terrorist attack. We had a whole room full of guys (and gals) who know this field as well as anybody. Some of the ideas were very clever; and damn difficult to defend against.
Got some examples for us?
"Close Gitmo!" "Osama bin Laden deserves due process." And so forth.
OM,
What department?
A branch of physics.
And, as inferring that this is all about Obama's polling numbers; he's running right at about 46/46 according to the latest Gallup polls.
Actually, he is not.
In the week of April 11–17 and again in the week of April 18–24, 43 percent of the Americans polled by Gallup said they approved of the job Obama was doing as president.
But hey, poo-flinger, facts aren't your thing, right?
I'm full of shit, because I approve of the fact that he's seen things through in Iraq, that he's seeing things through in Afghanistan, and that he oversaw the effort to get Bin Laden-- making a very tough call to violate the sovereignty of a nuclear armed quasi-ally when a failure could have been politically devastating?
Not only have you not figured out where I reside on the political spectrum, you have lost your ability to understand when someone is appreciating a job well done.
Well. Never let anyone accuse you of being overly intelligent.
Obama's overseen the killing of more high ranking terrorists than Bush, deported more illegal aliens than Bush, and now he's taken out Osama Bin Laden.
And it's killing the local teabaggers to admit it.
I love every minute of it, too.
Who would have thought the Bush Doctrine would have turned Barry into a man?
LOLOLOLOL
Love it.
If he had had his way...........not so much.
Jeremy said...
PatCA - So, one day after initiating and approving the operation that took out Osama Bin Laden, Obama looks "weak?"
Obama did not "initiate" anything.
You were idiotically saying in the other thread Obama "planned" this.
Just stop, you silly little beclowner. Please.
"Those are acts of barbarism, not the acts of people who have a moral compass. Actions like those only lower us to our enemy's level."
That sort of argument is specious, DBQ. Vengance and violence are not inherently barbaric, no more than respect and foreberance are always noble. The citizens who hung and mutilated Mussolini's body and the soldiers who executed SS guards were not transformed into barbarians "just like" fascists and Nazis.
Honorable enemies deserve honorable treatment. Bin Laden was not an honorable enemy.
@Jeremy
"Freeman Hunt I know what he's implying, dipstick.
And I also have no idea what you mean when you say liberals "talk like lame-oes."
Got some examples for us?"
"Phil 3:14 - Fuck off."
"You're a deather...and I bet you're a birther, too."
"It's nothing more than the standard right wing bullshit."
"You're a fucking idiot."
"A better question is this: How do YOU know waterboarding had anything to do with any of this?
Other than usual teabagger horse shit?"
"Osama is dead and a liberal was running the show.
Suck on that."
All quotes attributable to the gracious and intelligent Jeremy!
Thank you Jeremy for the universal wisdom you bequeath onto all Athousians. You are doing God's work.
...other than the fact that it was Obama versus Bush who is in charge at the moment?
Did I say that? Now you're jumping to conclusions. Trying to throw up a smoke screen to protect Obama. Rather than seek the truth you attack the skeptics.
What are you afraid to look at? They "kill" bin Laden and then destroy the evidence. Hmmm. Look at bin Laden's family tree, there's DNA floating all over the place. Maybe that DNA from a different bin Laden than Osama. We know how Clinton used Kosovo to bolster his numbers.
"So I'm upset because "we are better than them?"
Yep, you just repress it when a Liberal is in charge of the very same military and the very same country you thought so poorly of just a couple years ago.
ricpic said...
So Jews are just "somewhat Americans" to you, Cedarford? My battle of the bulge dad, from the grave, just told me not to dishonor his memory by lowering myself to your level and calling you what you are.
==================
We know the tactic, Ricpic. Call one jew (Ezra Klein) a somwhat American, expect the usual universalist smear from Jews claiming that is accusing all Jews of being "somewhat Americans". Followed by a flag-wrapping session.
Note 3 of the 4 Leaders of Code Pink are Progressive Jews and "somewhat American" - then watch the predictable rhetoric "So you rea calling ALL Code Pink "progressive Jews" and that is so bigoted and untrue! Cindy Sheehan is not Jewish".
Rhetorical trick. Half the sophists on the HardLeft and Left media in America are Jewish and "somewhat American" - that doesn't make ALL the HardLeft or Left media Jewish, nor "ALL Jews" somewhat American.
Just the Ezra Kleins, George Soros, Glen Greewalds, Medea Benjamins, etc.
Ezra felt a swell all right, but it wasn't patriotism.
OM,
Do you think that it's possible the gov has invested more effort on this topic than your department did while shooting the breeze at a retreat?
Specifically, did your discussion consider that these detectors can ID an isotope from Japan that is one-millionth of the dose that comes from bricks and the sun? Did you specifically talk about the amount and purity of radioactive material? Did you combine the issues of extremely sensitive detection (as my links demonstrate) w/ the difficulty of getting and weaponizing the radioactive material, w/o leaving a trace.
BTW, I fully admit that I have no particular nuke expertise, but being trained as a ChemE, I'm not totally unfamilar w/ propeller heads and their fun-w-speculation exercises: informed and clever, but not anywhere near definitive.
I bet Chris Mathews is getting pretty sticky by now.
ricpic,
Far be it from me (the originator of the C4-as-moby meme) to defend our antisemitic friend, but in the case of the 'somewhat American' remark, wasn't it made of Klein in particular? I can see the point there, not because of Klein's religious heritage, but rather because of his leftist tranzi outlook.
"Do you think that it's possible the gov has invested more effort on this topic than your department did while shooting the breeze at a retreat?"
The people in the room a) produce radioisotpes and, b) build detectors.
Where do you think "the government" gets it's expertise?
Jay
Obama did not "initiate" anything.
It seems Rush Limbaugh disagrees with you:
Our military wanted to go in there and just scorch the earth...but President Obama single-handedly understood what was at stake here. He alone understood the need to get DNA to prove the death...it was President Obama single-handedly and alone who came up with the strategy that brought about the effective assassination of Osama bin Laden," he said, adding, "thank God for President Obama."
Yes, Rush Limbaugh said this. It's nice to know politics can be set aside for a moment every so often and give credit where it is due.
The Bamster put the team together?
He authorized this?
Did he authorize exposing that Seals team?
and their families?
Everyone here is acting as if the only thing to be gleaned from the body is its identity. I'd have to think the government could learn quite a bit more than just that.
Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like, but I can't even imagine an America CIA that doesn't want to know every last detail of that corpse. X-Ray every single bone. Dissect every organ. Examine his final stool. Everything.
Bin Laden supposedly had medical problems. Don't we want to know as much as possible about this? In particular, wouldn't we want to know who was treating him? Don't we want to know whether he was getting treatment at the military facility up the block?
This is a critical piece of evidence in the on-going investigation of a criminal network. There is no way that this evidence is at the bottom of the ocean. That would be the epitome of keystone coppery.
To prepare for the mission, a replica of the compound was built in order for the team to carry out practice raids, which were performed in early April. Once the raid began, it lasted about 40 minutes and in the end 22 people were killed or captured. During the gunfight, bin Laden was killed by two shots to the left side of his face. His body was placed aboard one of the choppers with the returning soldiers.
Cool.
Where do you think "the government" gets it's expertise?
@OMike
Did you forget that you are the government too and that public employees don't produce anything of value?
Seeing Shit - "Did he authorize exposing that Seals team? and their families?"
Huh?
D.D., I bet you are right. If we held on to the body, there would be diplomatic pressure put on, there would potentially be litigation, etc.
But if the body is gone, well, what can be done?
Cover stories don't have to be 100% true. That they found the guy and pulled it off in complete secrecy gives me confidence that the right thing is being done here.
DADvocate "What are you afraid to look at? They "kill" bin Laden and then destroy the evidence. Hmmm. Look at bin Laden's family tree, there's DNA floating all over the place. Maybe that DNA from a different bin Laden than Osama. We know how Clinton used Kosovo to bolster his numbers."
Good lord...here we go.
Don't Tread 2012 - Fuck off.
D.D. Driver
Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like, but I can't even imagine an America CIA that doesn't want to know every last detail of that corpse.
I think you are making up facts in order to support your conspiracy. The US military has killed numerous high profile terrorists. Do you actually think the CIA is on hand at every military operation we have so they can do a thorough autopsy of every single body of every single terrorist until they were pleased enough to dispose of it properly?
Why is it some people have a tough time just accepting facts. Look, bin Laden is dead. This doesn't now mean you have to like Obama. It doesn't mean he will win re-election. It just means what it means. Bin Laden is dead. Period.
Good lord...here we go
Let the fools self-identify.
"Where do you think "the government" gets it's expertise?"
UWisconsin?
Now I know why you're worried.
Just kidding.
Jay "Obama did not "initiate" anything."
Washington, May 2: US President Barack Obama signed the death warrant for the world’s most high-profile target Osama bin-Laden on April 29, after months of preparations and meticulous planning against the highest-value target.
Obama was actively involved in reviewing all facets of the operation, a senior Administration official said, adding that the President gave the final go ahead for the secret operation at 8:20 am on April 29th in the Diplomatic Room before he left for Alabama.
Eat shit.
Obama lied on 9/10/11. And he was right to do it
EnigmatiCore - You agree with DADvocate?
"Obama lied on 9/10/11. And he was right to do it"
Obama lied, Osama died.
Jay - Show me where I said that president Obama "planned" the operation.
You're a liar.
Their nukes have just been languishing for this moment?
They nuke the USA, USA nukes Mecca
Jay - Galup - TODAY:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx
Matt - I know we've killed lots of terrorists, but this one was kinda special, doncha think?
I mean, we don't provide a special burial at sea for every bad guy we kill, either.
"Do you actually think the CIA is on hand at every military operation we have so they can do a thorough autopsy of every single body of every single terrorist until they were pleased enough to dispose of it properly?"
No. I think the CIA would have some input on what to do with THIS body. Do you understand why this body is sort of special, "Matt"? (If that is your real name.)
Seven Tacos, Apparently you've been sleeping or something. The fact that OBL was shot in the head by some infidel does not somehow make him a martyr and we should be extra careful not to piss-off the perpetually pissed-off?
I am not too afraid of the cowards to say that he got the final treatment he did because we are better than they are, period. American Exceptionalism in action.
EnigmatiCore - You agree with DADvocate?
Seriously? You had difficulty understanding what I meant when I said "Let the fools self-identify"?
Wow.
Do you have some sort of strange computer monitor that somehow inverts the meaning of words or something?
No, I do not agree with DADvocate.
Freeman - ANother "lame-o" in your book?
Fred Thompson / September 10, 2007
"Osama deserves due process."
versus:
President Obama: "Let me be clear, under my administration Osama bin Laden will either be killed on the battlefield or executed."
The CIA mainly wants to see the computers from the hideout autopsied. Maybe they can find a clue to locations of hidden Al Qaeda nukes before the next head terrorist guy sets them off. Only Trooper wants more proof from the body, but it seems that Admiral Jack Ruby got to it first
I've no problem with consigning ObL to the deep, though I'd personally prefer he were wrapped in bacon first. But why did they do it so soon? I mean, wouldn't it be, at minimum, prudent to have the actual body in cold storage for a week or two so that there might be non-American testimony that the man is dead?
"Let me spell it out for you people: there is a tremendous risk right now and in the coming months of a terrorist attack in the United States -- ranging in awfulness from minor (a couple dead people) to catastrophic (nuclear bomb).
It might happen anyway, simply because we killed Bin Laden. If we killed him and didn't treat his body in accordance with basic Muslim principles, the odds would increase greatly because it would inflame many radical Muslims greatly.
Get it?"
I get your point, but I disagree with it. If the jihadis had the ability to hit us with a nuke, it would have happened by now. There is no upside to waiting for them, and no downside for doing it ASAP. bin Laden's death isn't going to change anything.
Re how his body was handled, I wouldn't have dragged it thru the streets AND I wouldn't have given it an Islamic burial. I would have used the common form of body disposal for American criminals where there is no one to claim the body: cremation. Hey, if it's good enough for Nazi and Japanese war criminals, it's good enough for a Muslim war criminal.
If the American Military under President George W Bush had performed exactly the same feat as what happened here what you think would have happened? Would a lighting strike and lighting fast burial at sea be accepted by the likes of Ezra Klein, Journalist, the New York Times, Jeremy and other like minded fellow travelers of that ilk? Would they be raising questions? Would they be demanding that the government offer more than their bald assurance that it was indeed Osama Bin Laden? Would they accept this at face value?
You know the answer to that.
Jeremy squdged,
Hoosier - Are you saying you've never posted a comment that denigrates Islam, Muslims or president Obama?
Are you saying that denigrating precedent Jug Ears is racist? Remember when denigrating the President was patriotic? Of course not that would be inconvenient when the shoe is on your foot.
"though I'd personally prefer he were wrapped in bacon first"
You'd probably like the way Deadwood used hogs.
EnigmatiCore "Seriously? You had difficulty understanding what I meant when I said "Let the fools self-identify"?"
But Enigmaticore...I think you're pretty much a fool yourself, so how can I tell?
"The CIA mainly wants to see the computers from the hideout autopsied. Maybe they can find a clue to locations of hidden Al Qaeda nukes before the next head terrorist guy sets them off. Only Trooper wants more proof from the body, but it seems that Admiral Jack Ruby got to it first."
Why would it be mutually exclusive? I suspect that the CIA wants to know everything it possibly can.
jdkchem "Are you saying that denigrating precedent Jug Ears is racist?"
Yes, I do.
And you know it is.
Stop trying to defend it.
Fair response, Jeremy. We each consider the other to be a mental midget.
Where the evidence lies, well... this thread is a wonderful microcosm, I think.
"I suspect that the CIA wants to know everything it possibly can."
Presumably they've been watching that house since August. I'm guessing that was useful.
Trooper York - That's only your standard teabagger opinion.
But we'll never know because Bush talked a good game, but never got close.
Did he.
Why would it be mutually exclusive? I suspect that the CIA wants to know everything it possibly can.
You seem to be going for the weak conspiracy that the CIA has Bin Laden's dead body. Why not fake his death and hold him alive?
EnigmatiCore "Where the evidence lies, well... this thread is a wonderful microcosm, I think."
The "evidence" in this instance supports everything I've said.
Obama oversaw the advance planning, approved the operation, and gave the go ahead.
And he deserves credit where credit is due.
Trying to somehow make this out to be some kind of long term, Bush operation is nothing more than whishful thinking and teabagger bullshit.
Period.
I don't know if they got close or not.
I know they never claimed they killed him and then ditched the evidence two minutes later. I sincerely hope that they did kill Osama and everything is true and that he is indeed finally dead. I pray that this really happened.
I just don't understand why they had to dump the body like it was a Mafia hit. If they release the DNA records and the autopsy then we are all good.
But you see I repose exactly the same degree of faith and belief in this President as Ezra Klein, Journalist, the New York Times and Jeremy reposed in President Bush. No more and no less.
Jeremy-
As seems to always be the case, you require things to be explained to you that other people would have gleaned from simple reading.
When I typed "Where the evidence lies", the evidence I was talking about had precisely zero to do with President Obama.
Rather, the evidence to which I was referring was about the relative ability each of us has demonstrated regarding reading comprehension.
Obama oversaw the advance planning, approved the operation, and gave the go ahead.
And he deserves credit where credit is due.
Exactly.
Freeman - Here's a prime example of what you call Lame-o:
"I truly am not that concerned about him." George W. Bush / White House press conference on March 13, 2002.
Versus:
"Shortly after taking office, I directed Leon Panetta, the director of the CIA, to make the killing or capture of bin Laden the top priority of our war against al Qaeda, even as we continued our broader efforts to disrupt, dismantle, and defeat his network."
President Barack Obama
If they release the DNA records and the autopsy then we are all good.
IT WAS IN INSIDE JOB, ER, I MEAN SHOW US THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE, ER, I MEAN SHOW US THE DNA!
Ding Dong! Osama is dead. Which old bitch? The son of a bitch!
Ding Dong! Osama bin Laden is dead.
Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, Osama bin Laden is dead. He's gone where the dead fish go,
Below - below - below. Yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding Dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know
Osama bin Laden is dead!
President Obama:
As President of the Capital City, In the County of the Land of U.S.A., I welcome you most regally.
Eric Holder:
But we've got to verify it legally, to see
President Obama
To see?
Eric Holder
If he
President Obama
If he?
Eric Holder
Is morally, ethic'lly
Hillary Clinton
Spiritually, physically
Leon Panetta
Positively, absolutely
Rest of the Cabinet
Undeniably and reliably Dead
Navy Coroner
As Coroner I must begin, I thoroughly examined him.
And he's not only merely dead, he's really most sincerely dead.
President Obama
Then this is a day of Independence For all the Americans and their descendants
Eric Holder
If any.
President Obama
Yes, let the joyous news be spread The wicked son of a bitch at last is dead!
Trooper - Another moronic "deather" speaks his little mind:
"I sincerely hope that they did kill Osama and everything is true and that he is indeed finally dead. I pray that this really happened."
Duh.
When outlaws were killed in the old west they would put them in coffins and leave them on the sidewalk so people would know that they were dead. We have gone beyond that pratice but it the autopsy records of many criminals are available to reputable requests to prove that the people are who they say they are. DNA testing it the basis of many people being freed who were falsely accused of a crime.
So it is ok to use DNA to spring convicted criminals (who are innocent of course) but not ok to offer proof that they got the right Osama.
To this very day people claim that Jesse James was not killed by the Bob Ford. His body was recently exhumed to prove that was indeed the Missori outlaw and not the man who lived in California and lived to be about ninety years old.
These controvesies linger on. Why wouldn't you want to nip that in the bud?
Why wouldn't you want to nip that in the bud?
I don't think President Obama is against giving fertile minds something to run with, and then using them to his political advantage.
It not so much the matter of fertile minds of his political opponents. It is the issue of the Islamic world and the pretenders who will step and claim that Osama is still alive and that this is all a big lie. Why not nip that in the bud? Why the rush to dump him in the sea? Where there is no chance to exhume the body? Where it can not be examined and compared to the existing medical records. Once again if this was done on the ship by the appropriate
investigators than I stand corrected would be happy to appolgize.
Maybe one of you douchenozzle lawyers can explain it to me. I know I saw on "Law and Order" they have this "Chain of evidence" thingy. Or does that go out the window when Obama does something?
Nice try, Jeremy. Thompson was talking about Gitmo, not an American jury trial like the lame-oes.
They'd claim Big Satan is lying regardless of the proof we'd offer, so that does not strike me as compelling. Hell, we have truthers denying a lot more evidence than that.
And here's your Bush quote in context:
Q Mr. President, in your speeches now you rarely talk or mention Osama bin Laden. Why is that? Also, can you tell the American people if you have any more information, if you know if he is dead or alive? Final part -- deep in your heart, don't you truly believe that until you find out if he is dead or alive, you won't really eliminate the threat of --
THE PRESIDENT: Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, if he's alive at all. Who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not; we haven't heard from him in a long time. And the idea of focusing on one person is -- really indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission.
Terror is bigger than one person. And he's just -- he's a person who's now been marginalized. His network, his host government has been destroyed. He's the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match. He is -- as I mentioned in my speech, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death and he, himself, tries to hide -- if, in fact, he's hiding at all.
So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you. I'm more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied; that the strategy is clear; that the coalition is strong; that when we find enemy bunched up like we did in Shahikot Mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did.
And there will be other battles in Afghanistan. There's going to be other struggles like Shahikot, and I'm just as confident about the outcome of those future battles as I was about Shahikot, where our soldiers are performing brilliantly. We're tough, we're strong, they're well-equipped. We have a good strategy. We are showing the world we know how to fight a guerrilla war with conventional means.
Q But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban.
But once we set out the policy and started executing the plan, he became -- we shoved him out more and more on the margins. He has no place to train his al Qaeda killers anymore. And if we -- excuse me for a minute -- and if we find a training camp, we'll take care of it. Either we will or our friends will. That's one of the things -- part of the new phase that's becoming apparent to the American people is that we're working closely with other governments to deny sanctuary, or training, or a place to hide, or a place to raise money.
And we've got more work to do. See, that's the thing the American people have got to understand, that we've only been at this six months. This is going to be a long struggle. I keep saying that; I don't know whether you all believe me or not. But time will show you that it's going to take a long time to achieve this objective. And I can assure you, I am not going to blink. And I'm not going to get tired. Because I know what is at stake. And history has called us to action, and I am going to seize this moment for the good of the world, for peace in the world and for freedom.
Jeremy said...
Jay "Obama did not "initiate" anything."
I know.
Why are you continuing to post your drivel?
In 1985 one of our accounting clients who was an Orthodox Jew died when he was hit by a car. It was a hit and run and they had to do an autopsy. The widow was distraught and wanted to buy her husband of 57 years within the 24 hour period as mandated by her faith. Of course she could not because the medical examiner was backed up and she had to wait three days. We reached out to some people we knew and even to some pretty big shots in the political establishment which was the only reason they did it in three days.
But of course he wasn’t an Islamic terrorist. We have to respect their sensibilities. At all times. At all costs.
Obama was actively involved in reviewing all facets of the operation
Er, and then what?
Obama did not "initiate" this plan as you said.
EnigmatiCore "I don't think President Obama is against giving fertile minds something to run with, and then using them to his political advantage."
So the fact that they took DNA, had it tested, verified it was indeed Osama Bin Laden, and also took photos for possible later release...is aindicative of Obama " using them to his political advantage?"
There was no one present when any of this happened? Just Obama and his trusty chemical kit and digital camera?
This site and its teabagger regulars get crazier by the day.
Matt said...
It seems Rush Limbaugh disagrees with you:
So?
Obama did not initiate this operation.
Obama did not plan it.
Nothing you or Rush Limbaugh says can refute those facts.
Jay, once again: Obama initiated the operation taking effect and giving the go ahead.
Washington, May 2: US President Barack Obama signed the death warrant for the world’s most high-profile target Osama bin-Laden on April 29, after months of preparations and meticulous planning against the highest-value target.
Obama was actively involved in reviewing all facets of the operation, a senior Administration official said, adding that the President gave the final go ahead for the secret operation at 8:20 am on April 29th in the Diplomatic Room before he left for Alabama.
Eat shit.
So the fact that they took DNA, had it tested, verified it was indeed Osama Bin Laden, and also took photos for possible later release...is aindicative of Obama " using them to his political advantage?"
That's not what I said, nor is it a fair implication of anything that I said.
I honestly am starting to think there is something wrong with you.
Jay, nobody said Obama "planned" the operation, but he most certainly gave the orders that initiated the planning, oversaw the planning, and gave the go ahead to do the deal.
What is it about this that you just can't wrap your little brain around?
Do you actually think the planning for such an operation excluded the president or his approval?
The military just took it upon themselves to throw together this plan, then one day, waltzed into the WHite House and just sprung it on him??
You're a teabagging idiot.
EnigmatiCore This is exactly what you said:
"I don't think President Obama is against giving fertile minds something to run with, and then using them to his political advantage."
What would this be in reference to, other than the circumstances behind the killing and disposal of Osama Bin Laden's body?
"So the fact that they took DNA, had it tested, verified it was indeed Osama Bin Laden, and also took photos for possible later release..."
If that is true then you are 100% correct and I would be happy to appolgize. Just release the report so an independent outside forensic expert can verify it and we are cool.
When will they be releasing that information?
Will it take two years?
Should Donald Trump ask for it?
Barry seems to listen to him.
"I don't think anyone is advocating him being dragged through the streets or being put on display."
Oh, a whole lot of people are saying that, but I think that only a few are seriously advocating it.
Actually, "on display" wouldn't bother me too much. It might be a good plan to have a "viewing"... except for the fact it sounds like he was sort of in "closed casket" condition anyway.
But I'm convinced that most of the more outrageous suggestions involving pig farms or mutilation are expressed for the sake of expressing them and not as serious suggestions.
And I agree with everyone who said that "respectful" doesn't have to be according to Muslim rule. If how we treat the dead defines us, we ought to be able to use our own definition instead of bow to someone elses.
If everything were equal, a burial in 24 hours would be no big deal. But everything is not equal.
Also, please, someone tell me that no one in this administration actually, for real, said that we were following Muslim tradition in order to avoid inflaming people.
Freeman - Can I assume you didn't actually read this?
On Monday, Thompson said he wasn’t suggesting that bin Laden’s death would happen immediately after his capture.
“No, no, no, we’ve got due process to go through” depending on the circumstances, he said. “I’m not suggesting those things happen simultaneously.”
"we’ve got due process to go through"
Duh.
Now at our moment of triumph, I wouuld suggest that we reach out to the Muslim community, and make bridges, not fires. Perhaps the lab slides with his DNA could be given to the Ground Zero Mosque for burial facing east and with all the honor and decorum that Bin Laden deserves......Perhaps even better we could have an interdenominational service. I have a terrific idea on how we could show respect for both Islamic and western traditions. We could stone Bristol Palin to death at the funeral.....The Muslims could stone her for adultery and the liberals could stone her for disrespect to the intstitution of abortion.....I know Jeremy and the other liberals are going to complain that the front row seats, the so-called splatter seats, will all go to Saudi billionaires and Hollywood royalty. But this is a problem that people of good will can work out. Perhaps a lottery system.....Anyway the merchandising rights alone for such an event would be worth plenty. You could sell each stone for a pretty penny. Maybe some collector like Al Gore would purchase a bunch of them, have them polished, and make a serenity garden....Anyway it would be a real money maker, and the money could be divvied up equally between the Ground Zero Mosque and Planned Parenthood. Win win for everyone. What a burst of pride and brotherhood Ezra would feel at such an event.
Trooper
Your Obama Derangement is seriously clouding your judgement. Getting embarassing. Just sayn
This will be my last attempt to discuss things with you in good faith. I'll give it the old college try.
I have absolutely no problem at all with what the administration chose as the way to dispose of Bin Laden's body. That they got the sonofabitch is reason enough to defer to their approach without much second-guessing.
But when going over the pros and cons of any approach, I find it difficult to imagine that it was unforeseen that there would be 'deathers' if they disposed of the body. All I was saying is that when weighing the options, that would likely (and rightly) have been considered a feature and not a bug.
Trooper - "If that is true then you are 100% correct and I would be happy to appolgize. Just release the report so an independent outside forensic expert can verify it and we are cool."
You continue to perpetuate the idiotic theory that the entire U.S. Government is now in on some kind of hoax.
Other than pure conjecture, and of course being a crazy right wing nutcase, tell me what you're basing this on?
*By the way: Osama was just killed yesterday...and speaking "relaesing reports,"...I would like for you to tell me how long it took Bush & Company to finally admit that there were no WMD.
It's not derangement Garage. I am just having some fun with you. I am pretty sure it is Osama. I guess.
I just don't believe Barry. At all. One little bit.
I just think it is very, very strange that they had to dump him in the sea. Dare I say it....it seems fishy. Just sayn'
"Obama was actively involved in reviewing all facets of the operation,"
He was BRIEFED.
Jeremy, if Obama actually interfered with the planning done by the military in any way whatsoever he doesn't get *credit* that it worked. At that point, fate and God Himself get the credit that Obama didn't screw it up.
Obama's job was to evaluate the military plan for larger-picture political and policy ramifications and either nix it or give approval.
Acting like he was intimately involved in planning a military Op isn't a compliment!
Let me put it this way garage. I admire, trust and put my faith in President Obama in about the same degree as you do Governor Walker.
Howza about them apples. Just sayn'
"Other than pure conjecture, and of course being a crazy right wing nutcase, tell me what you're basing this on?"
I am just doing this so you will have a stroke Jeremy. Help a fella out.
EnigmatiCore - This just happened YESTERDAY.
Do you actually think the administration didn't anticipate any of this insanity?
That they have no plans relating to the release of photos, forensics, etc.
They just threw this out there and said..."geee, we sure hope the crazies are accepting this..."
And tell me how it took long before we found out there were no WMD?
Good grief...give it a fucking break.
Trooper - I'm way to healthy to have a stroke.
Being a good liberal helps with that.
"That they have no plans relating to the release of photos, forensics, etc."
I am very glad to hear that they are going to do that. Who told you that Soro's or Ezra Klein?
Jeremy--
There really is something wrong with you. You did not even come close to comprehending what I wrote.
I'm done with arguing with you.
Synova - "He was BRIEFED."
That's not what it says:
Washington, May 2: US President Barack Obama signed the death warrant for the world’s most high-profile target Osama bin-Laden on April 29, after months of preparations and meticulous planning against the highest-value target.
Obama was actively involved in reviewing all facets of the operation, a senior Administration official said, adding that the President gave the final go ahead for the secret operation at 8:20 am on April 29th in the Diplomatic Room before he left for Alabama."
In February 2011, the CIA said it was confident the Abbottabad compound was bin Laden's likely hiding place. In March, 2011, Obama began chairing a series of meetings with his national security team."
These were not merely "briefings."
They were planning sessions.
For once, just give it up and give the man the credit he is due.
Jeremy isn't happy Bin Laden is dead. He's happy that Obama did something good for everyone, for once.
Isn't it a little silly to shoot a man (clearly an act of disrespect for his religion - the one that is motivating his acts) then turn around bury him with full religious ceremony, as a sign of respect for his religion?
If you really respected his religion, you wouldn't have shot him in the first place, would you?
This is the silliness of an overgrown multiculturalis:, we all must respect each other, so I show my deepest respect for you and your differences after I have killed you.
Crazy.
The Great Satan could doctor up some "photos", or hire a "forensic experts" to confirm bin Laden's identity. How will we ever know!?
EnigmatiCore - You just cannot bring yourself to admit you're wrong about any of this.
You have this teabagger mentality that demands you denigrate literally anything associated with president Obama.
Fuck off.
I spent my misspent youth in NJ. In a Mafia town. I kinda have to like the idea that he's "feeding the fishes."s
Quayle - "If you really respected his religion, you wouldn't have shot him in the first place, would you?"
Oh, please.
Aren't there already enough nutty teabaggers spewing insanity already?
Unless of course, you're saying we shouldn't have ever killed any of those nasty Germans...you know, if we respected their religion?
Dunce.
Synova "Jeremy isn't happy Bin Laden is dead. He's happy that Obama did something good for everyone, for once."
Once again, instead of admitting you're about about previous postings, you're lying through what few teeth you still have in that little head of yours.
Show me any comment I've made that substantiates your bullshit.
garage mahal said...
The Great Satan could doctor up some "photos", or hire a "forensic experts" to confirm bin Laden's identity. How will we ever know!?
The photo's will not work at all. When there is a trial it is customary for both sides to have experts look at it. It would be a good idea for other eyes to look at it than just the governments. Not everyone has the blind faith in the Jug Eared Jesus that his faithful disciples like you and Jeremy show every day. Just sayn'
@Jeremy: we never made a big show about our sensitivity to the German's religion.
Genius.
Quayle - Gee, I guess it means that, taking what you posted as being relevant or even making any sense, we would never kill any of our enemies if we, at the same time, respected their individual or collective religious beliefs.
Do you think over time we've ever killed any Catholics?
Duh.
Reviewing isn't *planning* Jeremy. Reviewing is being *briefed*.
And if Obama was helping to *plan* a military operation with ZERO experience or understanding then he does not deserve to be president at all and all I can say is that our SEALS were good enough to make it work even with the interference.
Dear God, do you have some fantasy that if Bush or, oh, Palin, or anyone else that I approve of or like would get a moment's pass from me if they did what you're trying to say Obama did?
Obama's involvement had better have been "Yes, I want you do do this." "Yes, what you're doing sounds good." "Yes, you have the green light."
That some journalist used "active verbs" in a story doesn't make Obama qualified to plan a military op.
Quayle - Are you saying that if we respect a fallen enemy's religious beliefs...that's a bad thing?
Regardless of how horrible he or she may be?
Isn't respect and morality something Americvans should be proud of?
Buried at SEA, because it was the NAVY SEALS who got him--their mission, their domain; seems obvious
"Show me any comment I've made that substantiates your bullshit."
Everything you write substantiates my bull shit.
You're not alone it it, of course, but the thrust of nearly every pixel that issues from your finger tips is that this is all about Obama and that we ought to be suitably appreciative of Obama.
Not happy that Bin Laden is dead, but appreciative of Obama.
This is what it is about for you, if I judge by what you've been writing. Obama did something good and you want the rest of us to admit it.
Synova - Give it up.
What I posted makes it perfectly clear that Obama was in on the long term planning and initiation of the actual operation.
Unless of course, you're inferring that he made no suggestions, had not specific questions, provided absolutely no input.
Is that really what you're saying?
And is that how Bush handled Iraq? He just sat there and was "briefed"...without providing any input whatsoever relating to the planning or invasion, etc.?
Duh.
Synova - "the thrust of nearly every pixel that issues from your finger tips is that this is all about Obama and that we ought to be suitably appreciative of Obama."
And yet another bald-faced lie.
Fuck off, Synova.
You're a waste of my time.
@Jer: I'm saying that we've perfected in the west the ability to bifurcate our "political" from our "religious" views, and it produces strange results.
This guy's personal brand and skew of Ismal clearly motivated him to kill thousands.
So why should we respect that religion? At all?
We say, our killing you isn't about your religion, it is about your killing us.
And he answers, my killing you is about my religion.
So, what I'm saying is that we do that Muslim burial stuff for our own conscience and morality, but not for theirs.
They don't see it the same way we do, so it is lost on them.
They think we are liars and immoral.
Not everyone has the blind faith in the Jug Eared Jesus that his faithful disciples like you and Jeremy show every day. Just sayn'
And virtually all of our top military brass is behind this hoax? LOL
You've lost it dude.
Trooper - "Not everyone has the blind faith in the Jug Eared Jesus"
Racist prick.
"Ismal "...shoudl read Islam
Garage Mahal
"And virtually all of our top military brass is behind this hoax? LOL"
They all don't have to be behind it. Or they could be following orders. Or they could be doing it because they feel it is the right thing to do. (See Pat Tillman).
I am not saying it is a hoax. I hope it is not. I hope that the speed at which they dumped the body is just politcal correctness gone amuck as usual.
It just strikes me as very strange. Very strange.
trad guy - "The CIA mainly wants to see the computers from the hideout autopsied. Maybe they can find a clue to locations of hidden Al Qaeda nukes before the next head terrorist guy sets them off. Only Trooper wants more proof from the body."
1. Talk of "hidden Al Qaeda nukes" is just flat out ignorant fear-mongering.
2. Trooper is not the only one that thought an autopsy should have been done. I'd like to know if those long running rumors of Obama needing kidney dialysis or a transplant were true - and if he was getting regular dialysis or a transplant was done in Pakistan - HOW?
And a pic or two of his dead corpse and the couriers would be "nice". Like Uday and Qusay.
3. I hope the CIA left with a couple of prisoners, and not just pocket litter and computer disks. The couriers were running stuff from Binnie to old Ayman and others in leadership, and I'd like to know who.
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