Trump gets results. So... is there anything surprising on it to suggest why this controversy wasn't nipped in the bud?
ADDED: See it and marvel!!!
AND: So it says "Certificate of Live Birth" at the top. Is this still the "short form" and not the "long form" that the "birthers" say they want?
ALSO: This is — according to the NYT — the "long form."
“Over the last two and a half years, I have watched with bemusement,” [Obama] said in brief remarks. “I’ve been puzzled by the degree to which this thing just kept on going.”Extra points to Obama for correct use of (a form of) the frequently misused word "bemused."
Mr. Obama said there would be a “segment of people for which, no matter what we put out, this issue will not be put to rest.” But he said that he was “speaking to the vast majority of the American people as well as to the press. We do not have time for this kind of silliness.”
AND: Let me answer my own question. I'd say, the reason Obama did not release the long-form birth certificate before is that he thought it was to his advantage to allow other people to look bad or crazy in one way or another by going on in the birtherist mode. But there was a tipping point, as Trump got traction and polls showed huge numbers of Americans entertaining doubts. So, it was all political strategy. You could criticize Obama for wasting our time by not just releasing the damned thing earlier. But he could have thought it was demeaning to have to do this, so I'm inclined to give him a pass.
পোস্টগুলি
৬০৯টি মন্তব্য:
609 এর 1 – থেকে 200 আরও নতুন» সবচেয়ে নতুন»At this point, one can only guess that maybe Obama's camp was hoping that the absence of the certificate would tear apart the conservative base and lessen their chances at winning in 2012. However, with Trump making this an even bigger issue, it could only have done more harm to Obama's image if they had let it run its course.
I still find it really fishy that they waited this long into his presidency to show it.
Good. This was getting out of hand.
Of course, instead of just scanning the copy, the PDF has part of the page with a border around it. That is going to make some of the birther antennae go wild.
They kept it hidden so long as they believed it was politically advantageous to do so and released it when they believed it was politically advantageous to do so.
Comparisons to Rathergate in 3...2...1
No doubt many rightwing Republicans will not accept this evidence and will continue to be driven by hate.
Is this still the "short form" and not the "long form" that the "birthers" say they want?
That looks like my birth certificate. The only one I got. Let's call it the "real form." Anyone now agitating for the "long form" deserves a wood shampoo.
So it says "Certificate of Live Birth" at the top. Is this still the "short form" and not the "long form" that the "birthers" say they want?
No, this is the long form. The names are very similar, but this is it.
Comparisons to Rathergate in 3...2...1
LOL, my first thought exactly. I'm hoping this finally puts this issue to rest so that we can concentrate no the big stuff...but if it's this easy to just punt out there...why did Abercrombie have such a hard time finding it?
OK I am satisfied.
I'd like to know why he spent so much money to not have to produce it. It's entirely unremarkable. Why did he make this into such a big deal?
Let me guess-- this won't be enough proof for the birther kooks (half or more than half of all Republicans?) who believe Obama was hatched from a nazi space egg, in order to harm the 'murica.
Yawn. I never really doubted that he was born in Hawaii to an American woman, so he's a natural-born American citizen and eligible to be president. That said, he spent a good chunk of his formative years abroad in Indonesia being raised by an expatriate mother, which could be why he so often seems out of touch with most Americans. Just because he was legally eligible doesn't mean that he was well-qualified or a good choice. But he's who we have at least until 1/20/13, which will hopefully be (as the bumper sticker says) "the end of an error."
I hope these guys STFU now. I doubt there are many who have a lower regard for Teh W0n, but I always wonder if they've thought about the constitutional crisis that would erupt if we had an ineligible president?
-XC
It looks like the real thing with signatures of a local medical staff that can be verified.
Look at the number: 61-10641
This number is out of sequence to numbers that were issued on later dates.
For example, The Honolulu Advertiser published photostats of the original long-form birth certificates of twin daughters born to Eleanor Nordyke at Kapi'olani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital Aug. 5, 1961, one day after Obama was supposedly born at the same facility.
And yet, their birth certificiate number is LOWER than the one supposedly given to Barack Obama (61-10637).
This is pretty damning proof that Barack Obama's alleged birth certificate was not issued on the day of his birth - but was created after the fact later on.
Looks complete and unambigous to me.
wait :)
is the type face Arial Narrow? j/k
The other one is called "Certification of Live Birth."
Good riddance, stupid conspiracy.
"I'd like to know why he spent so much money to not have to produce it. It's entirely unremarkable. Why did he make this into such a big deal?"
Because it's fake.
Ut, you are such a moby.
Bummer
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Make this birther thing go away!
Stanley? His mother's first name was Stanley, but she went by Ann? You see, there was something embarrassing on the birth certificate. This will definitely help the Republicans win the Stanley vote.
I think those who think there will be any significant number of people who still doubt this are wrong. There might be a tiny handful left but this puts the issue to rest for literally 99% of those of use who had doubts. It was a favorite meme of the left wing that nothing would satisfy us, but that was a lie they made up to try to quell their own doubts about why their man wasn't just releasing the long form.
I had serious doubts. Now I've seen the long-form certificate. Doubts quelled. Now we can let it go.
I just don't know why he couldn't have done this two years ago and avoided the whole thing.
So he was born named Obama, changed his name to Soetero when his mother got married, and then changed it back to Obama to honor the father who abandoned him and his mother? Weird guy.
GOOD!
Keep going Donald this is only one of many questions that hover around this person.
I note that Trump has already started to ask about Barrys grades and how exactly this below average student gained admission to Colombia and Harvard Universities.
The Obama campaign called Trump's bluff and was holding the high cards all along. Better now than later. Time to deal the next hand.
"So What Took Him so Long?"
Obama DID release his birth certificate already, fuckos. He released it during the campaign. He released the same document that anyone who doesn't have the original document in hand would get, from the government. But the idiots on the right, who chafe so much that a popular, half-black liberal is the president, needed to believe that he couldn't possibly be American.
I used to hope that Obama would be reelected; now I hope that Obama is reelected in a manner that is crushing and humiliating to the right. If you don't understand why this is personal, maybe you haven't had anyone challenge the basis of your belonging to a community (the USA, in this case).
I am satisfied, but frankly if he were not an American citizen does anyone seriously doubt this birth certificate could be faked? We're not talking the hundreds, no thousands, of people who would have had to be involved in a 9-11 conspiracy, but a few trusted operatives who could do this.
Again, I am, and actually was before, satisfied he was born in the USA, but faking this would not be that big a deal.
Also, look at the "II" after the last name "Obama"
It's a different typeface and was added on later. Compare it to the other capital "I" instances in the document.
It's transparently a forgery created later on.
"I used to hope that Obama would be reelected; now I hope that Obama is reelected in a manner that is crushing and humiliating to the right."
Good luck with that, cause it ain't gonna happen.
(The Crypto Jew)
I doubt there are many who have a lower regard for Teh W0n,
That’s because you are a bitter-clinging RACIST!
I agree with most here--Obama was pleased to let birtherism run a muck because he thought it was in his political interest. Now the calculus has changed.
As for all this "long form/short form" stuff, everybody seems to be an expert on birth certificates these days. I have my original birth certificate. It has name, location, date and the state seal and not much else. I don't think it could survive birther scrutiny, but it's the only one I got.
"Obama DID release his birth certificate already, fuckos."
No, he didn't and went to court to prevent having to release this forged document that was created days AFTER his birth elsewhere.
Aliens have the technology to fake this kind of thing, but they never perfected the science of producing a real black man. Maybe next time:
Allen West 2012!
This is pretty damning proof that Barack Obama's alleged birth certificate was not issued on the day of his birth - but was created after the fact later on.
This issue was addressed already by James Taranto: the hospitals in Hawaii received batches of numbers from the registrar, and so, depending on the number of births at each hospital, used the numbers up at different rates.
It is NOT damning proof of anything except the idiocy of birther crazies.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE MAKE THE BIRTHER ISSUE GO AWAY
He released this now to shut Trump up, after Trump started to bring up Obama's college transcripts.
@ Lucien
Obama's grandfather wanted a son. He got a daughter and gave her Stanley for a first name. There's no telling what kind of psychological effect that might have had on her, but she definitely lived a life that was far from normal. If she'd been Susie Ann instead of Stanley Ann, who knows what might have happened?
A rose by any other name is not necessarily a rose any more. (Pace, Shakespeare.)
He released the same document that anyone who doesn't have the original document in hand would get, from the government. But the idiots on the right,...
Hardly anyone believed that something was amiss until the issue went on and on and on, and Obama wouldn't put it to rest. I think he wagered that it was good politically to get some of his opponents wrapped up in a nonsense issue. Once the doubts about his birthplace seeped into the mainstream, it was not good politically anymore, and so the certificate has been released.
I am very thankful that he released it. I think it's dangerous for a huge chunk of the population to start thinking that their President is a usurper to office.
I'm kidding, of course.
I don't think it could survive birther scrutiny, but it's the only one I got.
OMG! You mean you vote here and everything and use public restrooms and eat at McDonald's and everything, and you can't prove that you were born in America with a long form BC?
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgh
Why did they "wait so long"? They had to get a special exception from the State of Hawaii to release it. And it would not have been necessary if the crazies had not made such a ruckus about it.
Concerning "money spent not releasing it": no such money was spent.
And now folks are finding other birth certificate things to complain about. Sigh... Just goes to show that in the presence of enough bad faith, you can't even convince someone that the earth goes around the sun.
I don't think the birthers will be quelled by this.
They will continue to cobble together evidence that this president is somehow not legit. Now it's the grades. Magna cum stupid.
I assume Dr. Sinclair will be getting some calls if he is still alive.
It doesn't matter if you still have a little pocket of hard core birthers.
The important thing is that the general population will be satisfied now.
Hah! I just looked at Drudge and Trump is still demanding release of Obama's college records.
MnMark said...I had serious doubts. Now I've seen the long-form certificate. Doubts quelled. Now we can let it go.
I never had any doubts that he was born in the US. No birther me, but thought there might be something on the document, else why not release it. Like maybe "Arab" instead of African in the Father's race block.
looks like they were just jerking us around.
This just reveals how kooky the right-wing of the Republican party has become, and how I suspect this bent of denial was fueled by resentment over his race.
"This issue was addressed already by James Taranto: the hospitals in Hawaii received batches of numbers from the registrar, and so, depending on the number of births at each hospital, used the numbers up at different rates."
Except if you read my comment, you'll see that the numbers in question are for the SAME HOSPITAL.
Barack Obama wasn't born where his mother swore he was born. This birth certificate was signed four days LATER ... AFTER other children were born and got lower numbered birth certificates at the same hospital.
Clearly, this document was created later on and people lied on this official form - as has been stated all along.
This is why Obama refused to release the form. It doesn't stand up to even passing scrutiny.
This will go down as one of the more ugly episodes of Conservative/Republican/Tea Party hate.
I'm sorry but, this just bums me out. This not nearly as much fun as the Birther scenarios would have been to watch.
Just imagine that we elected a usurper just because he was the right skin color for the time, and then found out he was the wrong nationality. We do have to admit that it was possible and could be done, if not for who we call the "crazies." Even 9/11 could have been averted if the right crazies were heeded.
I think they should shut up now, but I welcome the fringe. They protect us like the boy who cried wolf. He was right eventually.
This just reveals how kooky the right-wing of the Republican party has become, and how I suspect this bent of denial was fueled by resentment over his race.
This reveals that you suspect birtherism was driven by race?
"Drudge and Trump is still demanding release of Obama's college records."
Assuming, you know, that he actually attended the three - count 'em three - colleges he claims to have graduated from.
Did you graduate from three different colleges?
Obama claims he did (Occidental, Columbia and Harvard).
Laughable.
Good, now let's got rid of this antiquated provision in the Constitution. The threat of a carpetbagging European royal coming to the US, becoming a citizen, getting elected president and then establishing a monarchy is long past.
35 years of citizenship seems like a reasonable requirement to me.
No Seal?
This reveals that you suspect birtherism was driven by race?
Lefties never stop talking about Obama's race.
The President's refusal for years to produce this simple document is one of the strangest omissions in American political history and spawned one of our great conspiracy theories.
Maybe when he writes his third autobiography as a private citizen in 2013, Obama may tell us all why he played hide and seek all these years.
Eh, much ado about nothing. "It's the economy, stupid." That is what will decide this election.
That doesn't look like the whole thing..
Whats Obama hiding?
This will go down as one of the more ugly episodes of Conservative/Republican/Tea Party hate.
Only in the minds of the foolish. It should go down as an example of political maneuvering.
Also, how is birtherism "hate?" Is everything a political side doesn't like now called "hate?"
BO's mom was 18 when he was born. And started college in Seattle 15 days later. BO's dad was still married to a woman back in Kenya, so unless polygamy is legal in Hawaii, BO was a bastard.
There is the issue of American citizenship. Was BO an American because he was born in Hawaii or because he was born to an 18 year old American?
Amazing news conference, revealing cluelessness is Obama's central talent.
No Seal?
Chief of document forgery at the Democrat Central is now slapping his forehead: "Damn, I knew I forgot something."
I think we did not have enough information about Obama and still don't. If you want to be President, we should demand to see all the same stuff we would to approve you as an FBI agent or many other sensitive jobs, or is this position just not that important?
The pdf looks like the certificate was faxed to the White House and they, in their ham-fisted way, decided to add the cross-hatch pattern behind it.
As far as form and content (of the black portion), it looks right.
I’m now more convinced that Obama was born in Hawaii than I am that OJ did it.
On the other side of this … all those court cases costing how many millions of dollars. The man has no sense of the value of a dollar because it’s always somebody else’s dollar that he is spending.
Why did he wait so long? Because it was a bunch of fucking morons who were creating the controversy, so why answer them? They never had any real proof, only arguments by allegation.
Thank you, birthers, for making us conservatives look utterly stupid. Go away now, and leave the adult conservatives to clean up your stupid mess.
joyce said...
There is the issue of American citizenship. Was BO an American because he was born in Hawaii or because he was born to an 18 year old American?
Obama needed to be born in the United States to become a natural born citizen because his mom did not qualify to convey citizenship to him if he was born overseas under the law if the time because she had not spend enough time in the country after age 15.
Watching the Obama presser just now and Obama is all smiles about finally putting this "silly" issue to bed.
What he won't say is that the issue that is now gone, the one that he thought was a weapon against the right, backfired, and now his quiver has one less arrow.
Wait for the follow up investigation of the hospital and the signatories on the certificate.
Still not the original. It is an abstract.
Since when did African become a race classification? Are Ernie Els and Rory Sabbatini African?
Nobody back in the 1960's called Negroes, African. Nobody.
(the other kev)
The cynic in me wonders if the Administration picked today to release this to draw media attention away from any possible fallout from Bernanke's press conference, which has the potential for long-term damage to Obama's reelection hopes.
As for the form itself, the people that this matters to are too long and far involved to let this go now. They're like Truthers in that regard.
So....still not good enough? What a bunch of retards. LOL
This does not make Birthers look stupid to me. If nothing will convince them, then yes, they are, but demanding proof of something like this for this job is the right thing to do. Remember it was always available, but withheld. I don't see how that discredits the skeptics. It should make you mad at the withholders of the proof. Why do people misdirect their anger like that. They denied the public important information just for political play. That's what's despicable.
Still not the original. It is an abstract.
No, it's the original. You can compare it to other Hawaii long forms. It's the same.
They couldn't write African-American because he wasn't an American.
this is what everyone has been calling for since it has his mother's signature and the attending physicians signature
the previous document did not have signatures on it
dust bunny you ignored the language which says a "true copy OR an abstract" this is what generally appears on all copies of birth certificates
It will not satisfy the hardcore birthers, but it will satisfy a lot of people who were on the margins.
The New York Times (hardly a birther outfit) also questions Barack Obama's established narrative and suggests that he's lying to Americans about his background.
"Obama suggests in his book that his years in New York were a pivotal period: He ran three miles a day, buckled down to work and 'stopped getting high,' which he says he had started doing in high school. Yet he declined repeated requests to talk about his New York years, release his Columbia transcript or identify even a single fellow student, co-worker, roommate or friend from those years."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/30/us/politics/30obama.html?pagewanted=print
Nobody who Barack Obama claims to have been around ever remembers him being around them, according to the New York Times.
"(Obama)said he was somewhat involved with the Black Student Organization and anti-apartheid activities, though, in recent interviews, several prominent student leaders said they did not remember his playing any role."
And now the "issue" will move from the birth certificate to whether either of his parents disqualified him. Which shows a stunning ignorance of what the law is.
Seriously, birthers: Stop. There are so many legitimate issues to pick fights over, from health care to his ignorance about how government policy affects fuel prices, from his lacksidasical attitude towards government debt to his non-response to idiocies like Syria being nominated for membership on the UN Human Rights Council. All those substantive issues being available, and people are worried about his citizenship??
I swear, birthers all act like 9/11 Truthers: Ok, one point shown to be bullshit, let's move onto the next talking point instead of evaluating all of them for stupidity.
If the birth certificate issue being put to bed doesn't stop you, then pause a minute and think about what the logical outcome would be if you all were correct: Joe Biden would be president. Joe Biden. Is that what you really want? Or are you birthers too damn married to your conspiracy fantasy to look beyond your noses at what would happen if you were right?
And now the "issue" will move from the birth certificate to whether either of his parents disqualified him. Which shows a stunning ignorance of what the law is.
Seriously, birthers: Stop.
So you're imagining a scenario and then telling the characters within your imagined scenario to stop?
Again, it makes no difference what the hard core birthers think. People think all kinds of crazy things.
But it does matter that mainstream will be satisfied.
here is a link to what had been originally put out by the Obama administration
http://whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate.pdf
obtained from this link
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate
"Obama suggests in his book that his years in New York were a pivotal period: He ran three miles a day, buckled down to work and 'stopped getting high,' which he says he had started doing in high school. Yet he declined repeated requests to talk about his New York years, release his Columbia transcript or identify even a single fellow student, co-worker, roommate or friend from those years."
This is why people don't trust Barack Obama. He refuses to release his Columbia records even to the New York Times, despite repeated requests. He can't name a single other student at the school, or say who his roommate was. It's almost like he's lying about attending school there.
Don't you find that suspicious, Garage? That the New York Times, hardly a birther outfit, would ask for simple transcript records or remembrances and Barack Obama would repeatedly refuse to give that to the New York Times?
It's pretty easy to see why Barack Obama isn't worthy of our trust. It took them two years to gin up this birth certificate, so I guess we'll see his alleged transcripts in about two more years.
Remember this was not some detail of his service in the national guard or some job many years ago. This was a question of his fundamental qualification for office according to the constitution. It's important and would be no matter who or which party he was from. If you don't think so, just imagine if it was the other side doing it.
I'm satisfied with Obama's eligibility but not the way the question has been handled by him or those of you who think it wasn't important.
This is such a fake and stupid controversy that it proves what dupes the right wingers really are. They will fall for anything, as long is it leads to hate, hate, hate against Obama.
Really, this is embarrassing to us as a nation that we have to spend a fucking second on this nonsense. All because the right wing wants to drag down a President.
Our press has failed us badly by continuing to give this cretins news coverage.
I am amazed Ann Althouse, a law professor, devotes so much of her life to trying to please the increasingly batshit loony conservatives.
Will this cause Althouse to utter a critical word about any other batshit loony con nonsense? Hell no, she will continue to catapult the propaganda.
Since when did African become a race classification? Are Ernie Els and Rory Sabbatini African?
It would be interesting to see how Hawaii classified the race of other nationalities back then. It's possible that a Japanese mother and Filipino father would be classified as "Japanese" and "Filipino," respectively, rather than (?).
"Really, this is embarrassing to us as a nation that we have to spend a fucking second on this nonsense. All because the right wing wants to drag down a President. "
Were you embarrassed about the many seconds the left spent on Bush's Guard records? I doubt it - LOL
rhardin wrote "They couldn't write African-American because he wasn't an American."
no because that term didn't come about until the late 60s or early 70s in this country. notice that they identified his father's race as African interesting since that is not a race
Ut:
He refuses to release his Columbia records
Really, you're dumb as a box of rocks. And that's an insult to the rocks.
Looking forward to Ann Althouse breathlessly catapulting the propaganda on "when will Obama release his college records?"
Not that I will see it. This blog is in my past.
What Obama said:
"we are not going to be able to solve our problems if we get distracted by sideshows and carnival barkers . . . We do not have time for this kind of silliness."
"But it does matter that mainstream will be satisfied."
Agreed, but I don't think that taking this one thing off the table is going to convince anyone to vote for or against Barry in the 2012.
This is such a fake and stupid controversy that it proves what dupes the right wingers really are. They will fall for anything, as long is it leads to hate, hate, hate against Obama.
I bet MSNBC talks a lot more about the birther issue that FNC. It's an outlet for lefty hate. In the end, you're the one being duped.
Denying public information for political gain is despicable, but the fact that Obama's administration had such a handle to begin with was due to birthers inability to use fact and reason to figure out the whole thing was nonsense. That's not misdirection of anger; that's properly placing blame on idiots for being idiots and giving a political opponent a free shot at manipulating the course of the narrative to their own advantage.
Furthermore, the short form was released. In conjunction with the other evidence in existence, that was good enough. Unfortunately, it was deemed otherwise by the foolish not because it was insufficient - inherently, it wasn't - but because idiots couldn't let go and sought to make hay over irrelevant technicalities and allow that to be a stepping stone towards further fantasy regarding the issue.
Again, there are tons of other issues that deserve better attention. Yet, birthers go on about this.
Birthers are to the right what Truthers were to the left: Marginalized idiots who's misconceptions about what was important were only outdone by their sense of self-importance in the debate. Both groups effectively functioned as nothing more than a drag on discussions for legitimate issues because they became available as a tar-brush to slap on the opposition in order to discredit them.
If you oppose Obama, you need to oppose birtherism. Otherwise, you end up in the crank bin. And don't say that Trump used it to his advantage; I wrote him off once I heard him bring up the issue. I'll actually work to vote in primaries for other conservatives (Go Jindal! Go nearly anyone else but Trump!) if he gets going with his campaign simply to oppose him now. That's the opposite of working.
"So....still not good enough?"
Garage, what you really can't seem to grasp is that the release of this new copy of a "document" is damning evidence that Americans don't trust their President.
That Barack Obama was forced to finally relent and release this present-day copy of this alleged historical "document" shows that Americans can't trust what he says.
And the reason is that he's often lying to Americans about things and refusing to release documents. That's wrong and Americans know it's wrong and they don't like it.
This document shows that Barack Obama's birth certificate wasn't filled out when he was born, but that it was created much later. That much is patently obvious even to the casual observer.
Ann Dunham lied and Libyans died.
The bottom line is that Americans have figured out they can't trust this guy and if you can't trust a guy, you're probably not going to vote for that guy.
Barack Obama is toast.
Barack Obama did not "spend money" to "keep this document sealed" and he did not "refuse to release it".
He had to get a special exception to the law in order to post this. He was sued for being President illegally and he had to pay lawyers to handle the lawsuit, which was dismissed. Even now people can't stop spreading lies about this.
That's why he "didn't just release it" before. It was never his document to release.
The hard core of birthers of course won't be satisfied until he mails each them in turn the original document.
Alpha,
Your opinion depends on whether the President is a D or an R, and nothing else, and everyone knows it.
"The hard core of birthers of course won't be satisfied until he mails each them in turn the original document."
Wait a minute?!? Are you saying he has more than one? What the hell?
I’ve said before and I’ll say it again – the Birthers are nutters just like the 9/11 Truthers and should be ignored.
My problem with Obama is his policies are awful and that he appears to be a weak person with poor judgment. The fact that he caved into these idiots only reinforces these concerns.
If this was a similar controversy from the left, some fake document would be produced, then aired on national network news as real by respected media figures who would refuse to admit it to be fake and rather make themselves part of the deception.
Sounds batshit crazy huh?
"The fact that he caved into these idiots only reinforces these concerns."
He didn't cave to "these idiots." He caved to The Donald. Gotta get a kick out of that if nothing else.
Ut: He refuses to release his Columbia records
UT did not make the claim that Barack Obama refuses to release his Columbia transcripts and is misleading people about his background.
The New York Times reported that as part of its investigation into Barack Obama's claims about his background.
The New York Times is the newspaper of record in the United States. They are not a "birther" outfit.
And they all but called Barack Obama a liar and reported that his "recollections" of his Columbia college years do not mesh with those of scores of others who attended the college at that time and who they interviewed.
But don't take my word for it. You can read the New York Times article here:
Obama’s Account of New York Years Often Differs From What Others Say
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/30/us/politics/30obama.html?pagewanted=print
"If this was a similar controversy from the left, some fake document would be produced, then aired on national network news as real by respected media figures who would refuse to admit it to be fake and rather make themselves part of the deception.
Sounds batshit crazy huh?"
Damn crazy. No way that could ever happen. Alpha's head would explode in embarrassment.
You can compare it to other Hawaii long forms. It's the same.
Perhaps. It would be interesting to see the long from for someone else from Hawaii who was born in the same time frame. I would love to 'compare' it.
Surely there must be someone out there with a Hawaiian official birth certificate who would be willing to share and close this door.
Each State probably has different documentation. On mine it is a photostat copy (because the original is sooooo old) and has an embossed seal from the county in Missouri. My husband's is not a photostat but also has an embossed seal of the county in Oregon. My daughter's same thing, embossed seal from the county in California. I see no embossed seal or any other printed official seal on this new document. Perhaps Hawaii lost their seal?
Whatever. The issue is that Obama could have easily solved this stupid controversy years ago by merely complying. He didn't. Why? I think because he wanted to have this controversy for political convenience.
I think that The Donald forced his hand sooner than he wanted. It would have been more expedient to let this stew until he could have played this 'trump' card (get it lol) against a more serious candidate.
Instead he spent millions to hide his records. Millions of OUR money I might add.
Now you know, I'm from Missouri. The "SHOW ME" State. I also like Reagan's philosophy. Trust but verify.
There are plenty of other reasons to dislike Obama and want him out of office. Why Obama and his handlers let this one go on for so long is suspicious.
Obama blinked.
I hope you all continue to stay on the case! This is so important! Dig deeper! You AA peeps never let me down.
Stay stupified thru 2012.
Didn't read all the comments, but the thing about the number being out of sequence is pure crap. There was no electronic registration in 1961. Births were registered when they received the next batch, not in the order of the births. The registration number order means nothing in terms of when the birth happened. I worked for several years for a state vital records department.
this birther thing was always bat shit crazy at the same level as the fag in chief sullivan had with Ms Palin
sad to say this is american politics today
birth certificates notwithstanding for trig or barry, this jug eared idiot isnt qualified to clean up a bathroom let alone run the united states
but, of course, YMMV
It would be interesting to see the long from for someone else from Hawaii who was born in the same time frame. I would love to 'compare' it.
Here you go:
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=105347
Note that these twins were born the day AFTER Barack Obama was allegedly born yet their birth certificate number is lower than Barack Obama's "certificate."
That's what he was hiding all along. His birth certificate was created later on AFTER the fact.
Nobody except Ann Dunham really knows where Barack Obama was actually born and she's dead. Except we now know he wasn't born where his birth certificate CLAIMS he was born, because kids born AFTER his mother claimed he was born have LOWER birth certificate numbers than he has.
That's why he's been hiding this document.
I bet MSNBC talks a lot more about the birther issue that FNC. It's an outlet for lefty hate. In the end, you're the one being duped.
Well put, it’s sort like how in 2004 I remember hearing more Democrats complaining about their patriotism being questioned than anyone actually saying something that could be reasonably construed* as questioning their patriotism.
* Most of the complaints from Democrats about their patriotism being supposedly questioned came from President Bush’s address to a joint session of Congress soon after 9/11 in which he told countries who had sponsored terrorism in the past that they had to make a decision about whether they were “either with us or with the terrorists.” There was a concerned effort on the part of some on the Left to lie about these remarks to claim the victim mantel but anyone who actually reads the transcript or watched the delivery knows that he was referring to foreign nations who had sponsored terrorism.
Trump worked Obama like a yard dog.
And he's still workin' him.
"Obama blinked."
Wins the thread.
And given the level of comptence from the Obama administration, I think Trig may do a better job
Sheepman said...
"Good, now let's got rid of this antiquated provision in the Constitution. The threat of a carpetbagging European royal coming to the US, becoming a citizen, getting elected president and then establishing a monarchy is long past."
No, I don't think so. The bar for amending the Constitution is higher than that, and the provision does no harm. It forbids me from being elected President, and believe me, I'm losing no sleep over that. If anything, I would say that the lesson of the Obama craziness is that states should enact legislation similar to—but looser than—the bill proposed in Arizona as prerequisites to ballot access, and a federal law should preempt any state law problems with doing so (the sort of thing alleged here, for instance).
A different 1961 long form Hawaii birth certificate for comparison purposes.
It's the same.
It was nice to hear him scold us again in the presser.
"So you're imagining a scenario and then telling the characters within your imagined scenario to stop?"
Freeman: Sister Souljah moment.
I'm extrapolating my experience from studying how conspiracy peddlers work to what their next step will be. Inevitably, that's the way such people stuck in such cognitive frameworks work. You see it from JFK conspiracy advocates to chemtrail believers to antivax woo peddlers to No-Legal-Authority-To-Tax conspiracists.
I realize they won't stop. But just like Matt Tabbi's and Bill Clinton's repudiation of 9/11 Truthers showed that people on the left were more than willing to call out idiocy that tried to make its home in their ranks, I'd hope that people on the right would be willing to do the same to birthers. Birtherism is classic irrational, non-critical, selective thinking combined with conspriatorial mindsets; I'm happy to saddle the left with trutherism, but I'd hope that conservatives would agree that there's no place for such irrationality in their ranks. Hence my statements to people speaking positively for birther mythology: Decide whether it's acceptable to be irrational and damaging, or rational and effective. Decide whether it's acceptable to be a detriment to your own side of the political debate or willing to repudiate a myth despite it being politically favorable to your worldview.
That's why I said "Stop". The people already rational on this issue aren't included in that. People who haven't given it much thought now should. And people who are wedded to the myth will likely keep up their idiocy, but at least they are hearing that they're not welcome.
"It's the same."
There are problems with it, however.
1) The sequence number is out of sequence.
2) The "II" after his name was added on later and is a different typeface from the other "I" in the document.
3) The alleged certificate was not signed on the alleged day of his birth.
I'm sure the internet is tweaking out the other questionable parts of the alleged document, but those are troublesome details right out of the gate.
They show that the certificate was made much later after the birth than the Obama Administration has been claiming.
People don't trust this guy ... and now it's easy to see why.
I enjoyed the mouth-foaming of the birthers. Where will I get my entertainment now?
Wow Tibore, you're making sense. You're gonna get trounced here.
No, it's the original. You can compare it to other Hawaii long forms. It's the same.
Yep. But I'm in slight disagreement with you that "the general population will be satisfied." Doubt, once planted, is mightily difficult to dispel.
Having said that, I'm heartily in agreement that the issue should be dropped, and I for one plan no further comment on the subject. Frankly, I'll avoid even reading anything about it, because I'm sick of it as well.
I just think that if Obama did play this as a way to marginalize a portion of his opposition, he played it way too cute and too long, and he's done real damage to himself in the process. Which is totally in keeping with the track record he's finally accumulating.
Meanwhile, Barack Hussein Obama keeps hiring these Muslims to be in the military and those Muslims keep turning right around and killing our soldiers in point-blank terrorist attacks.
Nine servicemen killed thanks to the President's insistence that Islam is the "Religion of Peace." Seems to be the "Religion of Killing People."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_afghanistan
Fucking bozo will never learn.
@ UT
I don't think the numbering is an issue since the births are probably recorded in batches and can get out of order.
However, the copy in the link you provided says
"This certifies that the above is a true and correct copy of the original on file in the research, planning and statistics office Hawaii Deptarment of Health"
Obama's says:
"I" certify that this is a true copy OR ABSTRACT of the record on file in the Hawaii State Department of Health"
So, which is it. A true copy.....or an abstract
"a summary of a text, scientific article, document, speech, etc.; epitome.
something that concentrates in itself the essential qualities of anything more extensive or more general, or of several things; essence."
I also note that the birth certificates in your link have a clearly embossed seal on them while Obama's does not?
Did Hawaii lose their official seal? When did they stop using their Seal on official documents?
** Note: I don't necissarily think that Obama is not a citizen or may not have been born in Hawaii. I just think that debating is great fun :-D and that if you don't have scepticism when politicians give you 'evidence' that they have been hiding for years....you are foolish and gullible.
I think it's dangerous for a huge chunk of the population to start thinking that their President is a usurper to office.
Was it a huge chunk? Or what it about the same size chunk of those democrats and liberals who devoutly believe George Bush personally ordered the destruction of the WTC on 9/11 so he could invade the Middle East.
I’m thinking that’s a bit more dangerous but YMMV.
"I realize they won't stop."
You're right. Because, according to the New York Times, Barack Obama hasn't been truthful to the American people about his past.
Saul Alinsky: "The end is what you want, the means is how you get it. Whenever we think about social change, the question of means and ends arises. The man of action views the issue of means and ends in pragmatic and strategic terms. He has no other problem; he thinks only of his actual resources and the possibilities of various choices of action. He asks of ends only whether they are achievable and worth the cost; of means, only whether they will work. ... The real arena is corrupt and bloody."
"I think it's dangerous for a huge chunk of the population to start thinking that their President is a usurper to office."
The chunk of birthers is a might smaller than the chunk of lefties who believed, and indeed still believe, Bush stole the election and was never legitimate.
America managed to survive that nonsense, I assume she'll survive this.
Her surviving Barry in general though is still very much in question.
Or what it about the same size chunk of those democrats and liberals who devoutly believe George Bush personally ordered the destruction of the WTC on 9/11 so he could invade the Middle East.
Have a link to this hypothesis?
That's why he "didn't just release it" before. It was never his document to release.
Au contraire.
Your birth certificate is YOUR document (with the exception of adopted children who may have had sealed birth records) and it can be released anytime you want to anyone you want to release it to.
All you have to do is to contact the local registrar's office, substantiate your identity (as a Notary, I often officate the document for those who are requesting their certificiate by using official ID ----not a Social Security card), pay a fee and TA DAH!! Official Birth Certificate.
How hard was that. Obama could have done it at any time.
"Was it a huge chunk? Or what it about the same size chunk of those democrats and liberals who devoutly believe George Bush personally ordered the destruction of the WTC on 9/11 so he could invade the Middle East."
I'd say it's actually smaller. You can find a fair number of truther activism, up to and including speeches on campuses advocating 9/11 truther fantasy. Heck, they even tried to start up an academic "journal" for "research" (*snort!*) papers on the topic. I've yet to see the equivalent on the birther side.
Granted, there are other reasons for that; birtherism doesn't really require much in the way of dissection of evidence, not to mention that it's nowhere near as large a topic. Still, though, while both populations are small, I'd actually say that birthers are diminishingly small. There were many polls in the past that interpreted answers to be favorable to 9/11 trutherism, but the devil is in the details, and not knowing with 100% confidence whether a birth certificate is legitimate or not is nowhere near being a birther.
Ut said...
"There are problems with it, however. (1) The sequence number is out of sequence."
Based on what? How do you know what sequence they were issued in? Does the sequence number depend on the time of birth, the date it was signed by the mother, the date it was signed by the attendant, the date it was accepted by the registrar general, the order in which it was processed by the office? How do you know? What possible reason, other than intense desire that it be fake, do you have for this threshold question?
"2) The "II" after his name was added on later and is a different typeface from the other "I" in the document."
It looks absolutely identical to everything else on line one—almost as if someone put it in a typewriter and typed "BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, II"!
"(3) The alleged certificate was not signed on the alleged day of his birth."
So what? Neither was the Nordyke certificate, which you previously cited as the gold standard. Obama's certificate puts his birth on August 4th and was signed on August 7th; Nordyke's certificate puts her birth on August 5th, and it too was signed on August 7th. So what's the problem? I see none unless you're assuming that a valid birth certificate must be signed the same day, a point refuted by your own example.
Another "abstract."
If they want to put this issue to bed, experts must be given access to the original. Only then can typeface and signatures be verified, or disqualified.
Have a link to this hypothesis?
You're kidding right?
Saul Alinsky:
"Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have."
Also,
"Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity."
Barack Obama is the enemy and we're just making him live up to his book of rules.
Also:
"Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose."
"Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it."
The target is Barack Obama and it's personal. He is on the defensive, responding. Therefore, he is not on the offensive. He is vulnerable on many issues and is being forced to react. That's poor leadership.
Penultimately,
"A good tactic is one your people enjoy."
It's been fun watching Obama twitch and twist in the wind on this issue and then, ultimately watching him blink and accede to the demands that he do what every American is required to do and that is to prove - not merely assert - his citizenship prior to receiving employment in the United States.
Lastly, back to our mentor Saul:
"A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time...
The birther issue has done real damage to Barack Obama because it demonstrates that he's not trustworthy and that his claims of transparency are false. That damage can't be undone by producing an alleged copy of his alleged birth certificate.
I thank Barack Obama for introducing me to the works of his pal Saul Alinsky.
It will be his undoing.
It's funny how smug the lefties are now, considering how many of them were also secretly wondering why he didn't just release the long form.
I was listening to NPR this morning and I think I finally heard the words "long form" for the first time. Now that it's actually been released, the leftwing press reveals that it actually knew the difference between what had been released and what we were asking for. Before, it was all "he already released a birth certificate", to which we birthers would respond "not a long form b.c.", to which the lefties would say "he released a birth certificate", and on and on, with them never willing to admit there was such a thing as a long form. But now all of a sudden they're all "of course, see? long form! Long form! We never doubted it, you crazy racist hate-filled right-wingers!"
Part of Obama's campaign strategy. To release it next year in the heat of the campaign only draws negative attention and makes him look worse. So release it now, diffuse the criticism. There isn't any more to be gained by fomenting rebellion in the Republican ranks now that Trump, who is in this only for attentiion, has adopted the birth certificate issue.
You're kidding right?
Not kidding. The leading GOP presidential hopeful is a birther, can you find one mainstream liberal that is a truther?
WELL DONE, WELL DONE, INDEED, PRESIDENT OBAMA!! I've never been prouder of the guy than I am today for shutting up the stupid birthers!
(But jeez, it was like pulling teeth...from a Martian!)
Cheers,
Victoria
Before, it was all "he already released a birth certificate", to which we birthers would respond "not a long form b.c.", to which the lefties would say "he released a birth certificate", and on and on, with them never willing to admit there was such a thing as a long form. But now all of a sudden they're all "of course, see? long form! Long form! We never doubted it, you crazy racist hate-filled right-wingers!"
Ha ha ha. Too true.
Trump, who is in this only for attentiion, has adopted the birth certificate issue.
Trump is a brilliant tactician. I certainly wouldn't want him to be President, but the man can manipulate his opponents like no one else.
Maybe Trump for a Cabinet position. Defense? State? (* I kid...slightly)
And so help me, if one person starts to bleat on about the "natural born citizen" thing, now that he's proven he's American, I'll scream.
Don't you nutjobs harm the chances of Marco Rubio being president, just because you can't stand Obama's guts!!!!
@DBQ:Your birth certificate is YOUR document
Not in Hawaii. Not in my home state. Maybe it is different in your state.
All you have to do is to contact the local registrar's office, substantiate your identity (as a Notary, I often officate the document for those who are requesting their certificiate by using official ID ----not a Social Security card), pay a fee and TA DAH!! Official Birth Certificate.
Which Obama already did in 2008, and got what he posted then, as anybody would in Hawaii who di the same, and some people said that wann't good enough. And some people are STILL spreading lies about what he could have released when.
And so help me, if one person starts to bleat on about the "natural born citizen" thing, now that he's proven he's American, I'll scream.
Cue-----> Mick.
I can hear the screaming from here!! LOL
Not kidding. The leading GOP presidential hopeful is a birther, can you find one mainstream liberal that is a truther?
I think its funny you actually give credence to a poll that Trump is a leading presidential hopeful.
In any event, please go back and read my post. Maybe more slowly this time.
You could criticize Obama for wasting our time by not just releasing the damned thing earlier. But he could have thought it was demeaning to have to do this, so I'm inclined to give him a pass.
Demeaning to put the issue of the President's eligibility for office to rest? Only a total narcissist who imagined himself to be above the law could believe that to be "demeaning."
He looks better if it's all about politics.
"Only a total narcissist who imagined himself to be above the law could believe that to be "demeaning."
Exactly ... and that's why Barack Obama thought it was demeaning to have to do what every American has to do in order to get a job in this country.
Prove - not merely assert - your citizenship.
He's a total narcissist and believes he is above and looks down his nose at what we are required to do every day.
He thinks he's special or something.
His delay in presenting this is no accident and he may well welcome Trump bringing it up again.
This reveal at this precise time has a purpose. It's been planned out for months by smart people and it's not for the purpose of clearing the air and settling anything. That could have been done long ago.
He's discrediting other arguments before they even start and setting up more of the same for the election. They may not know what they are doing as as leaders, but his apparatus is a proven campaign winner. Everything he does has a purpose when it's in that arena.
"The leading GOP presidential hopeful is a birther ..."
You don't have a link to prove this, Garage. So, clearly you're just making it up.
Garage wrote:
The leading GOP presidential hopeful is a birther, can you find one mainstream liberal that is a truther?
And the leading pro-Obama journalist, Andrew Sullivan, wants to crawl up Sarah Palin's uterus and demands to see a 3 year-old's birth certificate. Because he's running for President.
Trump is a brilliant tactician. I certainly wouldn't want him to be President, but the man can manipulate his opponents like no one else.
Obama released his birth certificate while Trump was in front of cameras, in NH, as he was trying to generate buzz for his campaign. Doh!
DBQ wrote:
Cue-----> Mick.
I can hear the screaming from here!! LOL
Mick? Mick? :P
You know the best part of this long-form being released? It KILLS Jerome Corsi's book. I wonder if it'll even be released now.
Oh, and it discredits his other little sideline of being a Truther, too.
HURRAY!
Althouse doesn't miss a chance to paint Obama as something bad, in this case devious and conniving:
"I'd say, the reason Obama did not release the long-form birth certificate before is that he thought it was to his advantage to allow other people to look bad or crazy in one way or another by going on in the birtherist mode."
No, Ann, it's because the question was answered a long time ago and only persists because of the hatred ginned up among the right wing rubes.
Plus, if he releases it they will just ask for something else - which they are doing now.
The only response left for the people pushing this bullshit is scorn, ridicule, and insults.
How damn dumb do you need to be to keep making his birth an issue once it was settled a long time ago?
Granted, almost a majority of Repubs think this is a real issue. Maybe that's not stupidity but garden variety lying.
And now the liars are going off in other directions and lying some more.
Our country has serious problems and we're wasting time on this endless stream of lies and nonsense from the right wing.
Idiots.
Obama released his birth certificate while Trump was in front of cameras, in NH, as he was trying to generate buzz for his campaign. Doh!
There is only one reason that Barack Obama released his birth certificate on April 27, 2011. Because of Donald Trump.
THANK YOU, DONALD. You're a HELLUVA entertainer and you play for keeps too.
"This reveal at this precise time has a purpose. It's been planned out for months by smart people and it's not for the purpose of clearing the air and settling anything."
It's to cover up today's Muslim terrorist attack by a Muslim inserted into our military; the firing of General David Petraeus and his replacement by a political hack professor who has no prior military experience.
Gotta hand it to these guys ... they sure know how to exploit a terrorist attack to get it off the front page.
"Our country has serious problems and we're wasting time on this endless stream of lies and nonsense from the right wing. "
Then stop doing it.
I'd say, the reason Obama did not release the long-form birth certificate before is that he thought it was to his advantage to allow other people to look bad or crazy in one way or another by going on in the birtherist mode.
Which is very presidential. Get that jackass out of here.
You ought to be ashamed, Ann, for putting him there.
Demeaning to put the issue of the President's eligibility for office to rest? Only a total narcissist who imagined himself to be above the law could believe that to be "demeaning."
Exactly.
When I saw the long form this morning I felt satisfied. I had been angry that it might be the case that a guy who wasn't even constitutionally qualified to be President was making sweeping changes to the country, such as Obamacare. Now that I've seen the long form, that puts my doubts about that to rest. It's a relief, it really is.
But then Obama comes out for a press conference - first one in a long time, isn't it? - and proceeds to insult everyone who had these quite legitimate doubts about him. We're "silly", and he has "better things to do" and this is all a "carnival sideshow".
I wondered why he didn't just release the long form. I think I know now. The man's arrogance prevented it. He used to make noises about how he understood that he was different than what we were used to, that his name is unusual, etc. But that what just political talk. The reason he didn't deign to put our doubts to rest when he so easily could have was that he felt it was beneath the Great Obama to do so. Then the issue just got so large that he had no choice, and he resents it.
"Granted, almost a majority of Repubs think this is a real issue."
Gallup/USA Today poll: only 38% of Americans believe that Barack Obama was definitelyl born in the United States. That includes a whole fucking lot of Democrats.
He may have been granted a birth certificate later on (although it looks like even this has been forged), but he wasn't born where his mother claimed he was born. She got the birth certificate much later, as evidenced by the sequence number being wrong.
You can't fool all of the American people all of the time, Alpha.
But you keep fucking that chicken.
It funny how people with no political office and who have no press credentials get Obama to answer things he fights tooth and nail. Limbaugh, Palin, Trump. These people are powerful today. The press, not so much.
It shows two things:
That Little Zero is running scared and Trump got to him and the trolls are all on their knees praying it doesn't go away, so Ann's conclusion (and many others') is right.
t-man said...
He released this now to shut Trump up, after Trump started to bring up Obama's college transcripts.
That and the medical records. Those are what I've wanted to see all along.
AllenS said...
Since when did African become a race classification? Are Ernie Els and Rory Sabbatini African?
Nobody back in the 1960's called Negroes, African. Nobody.
The official, and socially acceptable, term was Negro.
Excellent point.
PS Love the trolls trying to tell us this is all raaaacist and that Zero did it long ago.
WV "wagswak" What the guy who's voicing the Aflac duck is doing.
"Only a total narcissist who imagined himself to be above the law could believe that to be "demeaning."
Well... the narcissist part is already established, I think. It was established during all the fawning in the campaign. So half that equation is already in place.
And the leading pro-Obama journalist, Andrew Sullivan, wants to crawl up Sarah Palin's uterus and demands to see a 3 year-old's birth certificate.
But that's different.
"But there was a tipping point, as Trump got traction and polls showed huge numbers of American's entertaining doubts. So, it was all political strategy."
Doesn't this show, Ann, that Barack Obama isn't the political strategist everyone thinks he is?
I mean, if so, how did he fall into this obvious trap?
Gee, before Obama, Democrats were ascendant. Obama lost the House for Democrats, lost a bunch of governorships for Democrats, lost 16 state legislatures for Democrats, and is well on his way to losing both the U.S. Senate and the White House for Democrats.
When is the Democrat Party going to wise up and dump this fucking loser who is destroying the Democrat Party?
All of the posters above that are supposedly right of center saying"stop", the game is politics, not rationality, do you want to play a different game than the the one that the Dems play?!
POLITICS....perception is reality, not the other way around. Obama is playing his little hidden documents game and losing, it's politics, why are you willing to help the other side?
Every one of his hidden issues should be dragged out of him one at a time, on this he's a loser. Americans want to see the grades of the smartest guy in the room, where are they?
We know Kerry's grades.
We know G.W's grades.
Obama is hiding his grades, why?
The Obama onion will be peeled back for the next year and a half.
He has made it so and people on my own side say stop.
No freaking way.
So, it was all political strategy. You could criticize Obama for wasting our time by not just releasing the damned thing earlier. But he could have thought it was demeaning to have to do this, so I'm inclined to give him a pass.
I also am inclined to give him a pass, but only because there are so many other things more significant.
But why would releasing one's birth certificate early on be demeaning? Being forced to when President is what is demeaning, but he chose that route because, as we both suspect, he thought it was politically advantageous to let it roll.
AlphaLiberal
"Not that I will see it. This blog is in my past."
How can we miss you if you won't go away?
"All of the posters above that are supposedly right of center saying"stop", the game is politics"
When Democrats start begging us to STOP is the time we need to stomp real hard on their fucking necks.
This issue was hurting Obama and that's the only reason he deigned to produce this copy of an alleged "document" which is in fact only an "abstract" (says so right on it).
We aren't going to stop.
Ever.
Even after he's no longer President.
As a (former) birther, I had legitimate concerns about whether Obama was entitled to be President. Now I don't.
But as far as college records and all that, while I might be curious, I don't think he has any obligation to release those. No politician wants to hand his opponents fodder to paint him in a bad light. If there is embarrassing stuff in those old college records, I don't blame Obama for not releasing them. I wouldn't either.
I think a reasonable person has to let the whole birth doubts thing go now.
The only similar thing that might still be a legitimate concern is whether he used a fake SSN on his selective service record. And even if he did that, it shows bad judment by a 20 year old and isn't really relevant to his presidency.
Despite the venom from and sack dancing by the left wingers (who as I said probably had some secret doubts themselves), I'm relieved and happy to put all these b.c./records issues behind us.
"How can we miss you (AlphaLiberal) if you won't go away?"
Funny.
He's like that last stubborn piece of dog turd on the bottom of your shoe that just won't fucking fall off no matter how hard you shake your leg.
Edutcher wrote:
The official, and socially acceptable, term was Negro.
Excellent point.
That would be an excellent point, if Barack Obama Sr were an American Negro. But he was an African Negro.
You know, my father told me that they were going to place "Military Officer" as my father's occupation, on one of my documents (perhaps BC, I don't recall). He lobbied successfully with the registrar to change it to "Military Physician".
One can argue with bureaucrats, you know, to tweak certain things on official forms. I've done it myself, too.
The stunning part of all this are the people in the Republican Party who know better, know this birther issue has been one huge lie and have gone along with it -- just to tear down the President.
You may not be dumb like the people at your side, but you are complicit in the endless stream of lies.
I mean, what's behind this birther nonsense, the allegations that Obama is really Kenyan? Our first African-American President is also the first to have his citizenship so challenged? RACISM
Racism such as we see in the ranks of the Tea Puppets all the time
I think the guy in the video at this link posts here and is warmly embraced by Ann Althouse. She would never dream of criticizing such a person.
When racism rears it's ugly head what do conservatives do? Defend it, deny it and attack anyone who criticizes it.
Many of you are racists and many of you others are apologists for racism.
(That would be an excellent point, if Barack Obama Sr were an American Negro. But he was an African Negro.)
...argh. My point was that perhaps Barack Obama Sr argued successfully that he shouldn't be called a Negro, but rather be labeled by his continent of birth.
Mind you, would a white African have insisted on "African" at the time? More likely, he would've accepted "caucasian".
I had questions about Obama’s place of birth – foremost among them was why wouldn’t he just release the freaking birth certificate if he had it. He has now released the document that people have been asking for, and I’m now satisfied.
I do think it’s interesting that his internal polling showed that it was now hurting him (otherwise, the most partisan administration in history wouldn’t have released it).
The Queen - "But there was a tipping point, as Trump got traction and polls showed huge numbers of American's entertaining doubts. So, it was all political strategy."
I agree with the premise that there were many uneducated American dolts who were "entertaining doubts" or flat out disbelieving our own predident was born in HAwaii...and I also thought the president would wait until about a week or so before the 2012 election to do this, but...this should give (even the teabaggers here) an idea of just how inceredibly crazy many here have become:
A new Gallup/USA Today poll:
According to the survey, just 43 percent of Americans believe that Mr. Trump was definitely born in the United States.
DUH.
The ugly racism oozing from the modern Republican Party is no surprise given it's racist roots.
The racist Republican Party of today sprung from the Dixiecrats who were ejected from the Democratic Party in the 1960s for their racism.
Today's Republican Party is built on pillars of racism and racial resentment. The "Southern Strategy" is a racist strategy.
And Rush Limbaugh is the king racist out there spreading his hate and bile. As someone said so well this week:
When Limbaugh says Obama's resentment is about race "as you know," his audience certainly does know, because they've heard it hundreds of times. I think most liberals are unaware that this message gets pounded home to white conservatives day after day and has been since 2008. This is how something like health-care reform can be fit so seamlessly into the culture war: It's big government, and that can only mean taking money from hardworking white people and giving it to undeserving, shiftless black people. That's why Limbaugh so often refers to health-care reform as "reparations" -- Obama, angry black man that he is, enacted it to stick it to white people in vengeance for slavery and discrimination.
The birther attack has run it's course and now they will turn to some other racial resentment strategy.
And the dupes of the Republican Party will royally rogered by the Republican elites.
I mean, what's behind this birther nonsense, the allegations that Obama is really Kenyan? Our first African-American President is also the first to have his citizenship so challenged? RACISM
Well I actually am a "racist", but I wasn't questioning his birth because he is half-black. I was questioning it because (a) the Hawaiian governor said his staff found only a "written record" when they looked for a b.c.; (b) Obama spent a lot of money fighting lawsuits that would have required him to produce a long-form; (c) Obama had never produced a long-form; (d) early on, some Kenyan official claimed Obama was born in Kenya, then changed his story; (e) other assorted such tidbits.
Are you willing to grant that I am being straightforward here? Yes, I am racist. No, I did not doubt his birth because of his race. Now that I have seen the long-form that he would not produce before, I do not doubt his birth. When you claim that the objections of people like me were unfounded in fact and only raised because of his race, you are wrong.
The birther attack has run it's course and now they will turn to some other racial resentment strategy.
The birther issue was about nationality, not race. Don't you lefty retards think about anything other than race?
This is going to be one of those 600+ post threads, right? Just checking.
Franklin "I had questions about Obama’s place of birth – foremost among them was why wouldn’t he just release the freaking birth certificate if he had it."
The certificate that anybody born in Hawaii and of course many other states, that is required and accepted by our own government was most certainly relaeased...and I would assume you, who, as you say; "I had questions about Obama’s place of birth," already knew that, but, like many others here...you just would couldn't bring yourself to accept it as the truth.(Duh)
The ONLY reason he had to go to this extreme was because of idiotic questions raised by the far right, the far, far right teabaggers and even many in the mainstream GOP (if they still indeed exist.)
The entire affair was an embarrassment.
The birther issue was about nationality, not race. Don't you lefty retards think about anything other than race?
No, they don't. Race is everything to them. They count black faces in crowds like you or I count change received from a cashier.
Mind you, Birtherism was about meeting a Constitutional requirement. The college transcripts thing, with its attedant conclusion that he was an Affirmative Action largesse recipient? Now THAT is about racism.
Garage -- If Obama is scared of a Trump candidacy, so much so that he has to plan announcements around Trump's appearance in front of television cameras, Obama is politically beyond help and disgustingly failed president.
Doh.
Jeremy:The ONLY reason he had to go to this extreme was because of idiotic questions raised by the far right, the far, far right teabaggers ...
Are you sure you mean the "far, far right teabaggers" and not perhaps the "far, far, FAR right teabaggers" or maybe just the "far right teabaggers"? I want to be sure I understand your point correctly.
Obama is clueless because if he doesn't release the birth certificate, there's got to be a reason.
So people start speculating on the reason.
He's responsible for the behavior that he claims to be amazed by, that is in fact ordinary and everyday.
But he has no bad effects on anything, in his mind.
They're pretty much everywhere these days.
This news conference is one of many pieces of the same thing.
Hey! Has anyone checked World Nut Daily? They must be in mourning today. As well as all the Clintonistas who were the ORIGINAL Birthers.
I didn't see Hillary nodding approvingly at the presser today, did you? Hmmmmmmmmm.
MarkG "The birther issue was about nationality, not race. Don't you lefty retards think about anything other than race?"
Oh, bullshit.
Did you hear anything about this "nationality" issue relating to John McCain...or for that matter, ANY other person ever running for president?
And is the deep, deep question of whether the president is actually a Muslim or that nobody from his childhood knows him...another question of "nationality?"
*Reverend Graham: “I think the president’s problem is that he was born a Muslim, his father was a Muslim. The seed of Islam is passed through the father like the seed of Judaism is passed through the mother. He was born a Muslim, his father gave him an Islamic name,”
Tell me the last time you ever even heard the phrase: "The seed of Islam."
Much of this was based on raqcism and you know it, too.
vbspurs - I wondered how long it was going to take one you teabaggers to somehow thrust the Clintons into this mess.
Dumb as a bag of rocks.
Mind you, Birtherism was about meeting a Constitutional requirement.
B.S. That requirement was met long ago. Birtherism is about people refusing to accept the fact he is President.
As others have pointed out (at Aos, maybe here) Obama let that birther Colonel Lakin (a surgeon) be court-martialed, dishonorably discharged and sent to Leavenworth rather than produce this form a couple years ago. He's a real piece of work, this President of ours.
"The ugly racism oozing from the modern Republican Party is no surprise given it's racist roots."
Democrat Robert Byrd, who for the past 50 years was the scion of the Democrat Party, was an actual, living breathing member of the fucking Ku Klux Klan.
He actually said "nigger" on national television one time, not realizing that it was an offensive word. That's how commonly he said "nigger."
Dude, you must be fucking kidding with this revisionist history bullshit.
Today's Democrat Party is the evolution of the underground Ku Klux Klan. That they parade a half white guy around as the "first black president" makes it especially ironic.
The Democrat Party has killed more black children than any other political party in history.
It's a complete fucking genocide the Democrats are perpetuating.
John McCain produced REAMS of documents in support of meeting the Constitutional requirement of being considered a native born US citizen.
If memory serves, he even held a press conference to address the issue, producing his birth certificate at some point.
This is what is called real transparency, not the BS arrogant version practised by Barack Obama II.
Jeremy said...
"Did you hear anything about this "nationality" issue relating to John McCain...or for that matter, ANY other person ever running for president?"
Actually we did. Questions were raised about McCain's eligibility based on his birth in the PCZ. And as to any other person ever running for President: Again, the answer is yes. George Romney's eligibility was questioned, and I'm sure we'd find others if we dug into it.
Lincolnnf wrote:
As others have pointed out (at Aos, maybe here) Obama let that birther Colonel Lakin (a surgeon) be court-martialed, dishonorably discharged and sent to Leavenworth rather than produce this form a couple years ago.
I have zero sympathy for that colonel. Obama didn't have anything to do with it -- it was entirely the fault of the officer's misguided logic and insubordination. He reaped what he sowed, and I'm glad.
"That requirement was met long ago. Birtherism is about people refusing to accept the fact he is President."
No, Garage, it's about Barack Obama being uppity.
He thinks he's above having to produce the very documents he requires everybody else to produce in order to get a passport, or to start a job.
It's about knocking his ass down a peg and letting him know we all just ain't that into him.
Now he can get his lazy ass back to work reducing gas prices or else he's fucking fired.
Got it?
"Reverse racism, you mean. On behalf of whomever was bumped to let him clean up his act come college time,"
He was still a coke junkie when he was attending Occidental, by his own admission.
Barack Obama is the epitome of everything that is wrong with racial quotas in America and letting black junkies get to the front of the college line in front of deserving Asians or Hispanics or Whites.
vbspurs said...
Edutcher wrote:
The official, and socially acceptable, term was Negro.
Excellent point.
That would be an excellent point, if Barack Obama Sr were an American Negro. But he was an African Negro.
...argh. My point was that perhaps Barack Obama Sr argued successfully that he shouldn't be called a Negro, but rather be labeled by his continent of birth.
Have to quibble with you here, mum.
The field in question is Race, and the legal term at the time was Negro. We're talking about a legal document here, so I'm thinking the terminology would have to be correct.
"African" indicates a continent (at that time it certainly would) - Hendrik Verwoerd and Muammar Kadaffi are also Africans but, by no means, Negro.
Have to stand by my quibble.
PS Love that Jeremy's here. It means the Lefties really think they're on the losing end.
And if he's dumb enough to pick a fight with vb, we ought to start a fund for his medical care.
Did you hear anything about this "nationality" issue relating to John McCain...or for that matter, ANY other person ever running for president?
Hell yes. I guess you weren't paying attention during the last election. McCain's birth in Panama was made into a big deal.
Others who have had their citizenship questioned
Chester Arthur,(maybe born in Canada)
Romney (Sr not our current Romney) Born in Mexico)
Barry Goldwater (Born in Arizona Territory, not part of the US at that time)
and a bunch of others who were candidates.
You really ought to read some history books.
"John McCain produced REAMS of documents in support of meeting the Constitutional requirement of being considered a native born US citizen."
Constitution says "natural born" not "native born."
McCain was born in Panama ... so he was not a "natural born" American citizen. He was a "foreign born" American citizen.
Doesn't take anything away from his service to the country, or make him less of an American.
Just means he can't be president (just like a 34-year-old can't be president).
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