Via Jeralyn at TalkLeft. Also at TalkLeft, screenshots from Loughner's YouTube page, which make him look deranged. His favorite books include "The Communist Manifesto" and "Mein Kampf" — for what it's worth.
Giffords has apparently survived, but a federal district judge, who was also shot, has died:
Appointed by President George H.W. Bush in 1991, Federal Judge John McCarthy Roll was shot and killed today when an assailant opened fire in a Safeway parking lot in Ariz., where Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz. was meeting with constituents.
Just two years ago, he was targeted with death threats -- and given a security detail -- after ruling that a group of illegal immigrants could go forward with a multi-million dollar civil rights lawsuit against a state rancher....
Posts
288 comments:
1 – 200 of 288 Newer› Newest»I think he's a nut. He didn't just shoot at Giffords. He went on a shooting spree after he shot her. That's not what a sane person attempting an assassination does.
Well, at least I guess it's not. Don't remember that happening in other assassination attempts.
Ultimately it does not matter to those who seek use any "crisis" to further their agenda what the reason was. So, how will President Obama use this to further his agenda?
AlphaLib is probably busy typing a retraction.
So now a second round of evil political commentary (I'm not suggesting you Freeman, just commenting on what I know will come from some).
God help us.
A 9 year old girl was also killed.
Agree with Freeman - on everything. I think to say this one is a Lefty only means his choice in neuroses has a few more from that side of the aisle than the other.
When we learn more, I think we'll find this guy on his own personal planet.
Not that it's important, but his "books" list on YouTube is a cut-and-paste of a summer reading list. Animal Farm, Mein Kampf and The Phantom Tollbooth? The Communist Manifesto? Really? What movement is that, The United Front Against Summer School?
The favorite books are almost guaranteed to fuel speculation about motives. He's either a calculating albeit disturbed individual, or a very conflicted anarchist of some sort.
Not a "lefty" either.
I agree with Stacy McCain and Ace of Spades who both have said that there is a particular flavor to the political nut-cases they've ever met that is neither left nor right, the conspiracy beliefs and basic oddness of the pattern of concerns seeming to be its own thing rather than an offshoot of either side. Not that a person messed up in that way is automatically violent, but tends to worry about that particular laundry list of things... including their own particular and unique intelligence for seeing what other people ignore.
Crazy, the great leveler. Knows no bounds ideological, economic, or otherwise.
I'm sure AlphaLiberal will be along any moment now to remind us that Sarah Palin is the real killer.
John Roll was a friend of mine and an outstanding public servant as both a prosecutor and a judge. It is disappointing indeed to see federal officials using the occasion of his tragic death, Gifford's injury and the injury and death of others for grandstanding.
The Pima County Sheriff's Office has a fine homocide unit and the local prosecutors have extensive experience trying homocides. The comparative amateurs at the FBI and Justice Department should maintain a low profile on this matter. Will they? I doubt it.
"He went on a shooting spree after he shot her."
Has that fact been established?
Gunfire was traded (reportedly).
Who - exactly - shot whom? So far, I've seen no reliable reporting on this.
My thinking is he was a deranged young man who was just waiting for his moment to make s statement. Unfortunately, his moment coincided with this public event.
Here's hoping he gets executed as quickly as possible.
Of course, plenty of non shooting spree assassins are crazy too.
"I had to shoot him to impress Jodie Foster."
"Uh..."
"The comparative amateurs at the FBI and Justice Department should maintain a low profile on this matter."
It has been 36 years since a United States Congressman has been shot.
I doubt very seriously that the FBI will maintain a low profile on this.
In fact, Obama Administration officials are already releasing information to their favored reporters without authorization. The best thing that could happen would be for the White House to stand down and stop releasing information to their friends in the media so that a proper investigation can occur.
Yes, he was "kinda" left.
The number of violent incidents caused by Tea Partiers remains at zero.
This is so sad. It is heartbreaking. What needless suffering this young man has inflicted.
"Who knows what evil lurks within the hearts of men?"
"The SHADOW *Do*...."
(But ONLY, apparently, The Shadow--who inhabited a world every bit as fictitious as that of the crazies who commit these sorts of acts.)
He's a nut, why who really knows, but he's a nut.
catieparker's Twitter feed:
"As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy."
"Who knows what evil lurks within the hearts of men"
The internet knows.
The internet is the single largest intelligence gathering apparatus ever invented by the United States military.
nut
I think he's a nut.
Absolutely. Unfortunately, many on the left have a long track record of blaming the actions of every nut on the right. They leaped at the chance to blame the Unitarian Church in Knoxville on the Sean Hannity, and other conservatives. Any allegiance to the truth or fairness are totally absent in those people.
Where is AlphaLiberal?
He seems to have gone to ground now that it's becoming painfully obvious that the killer was a leftist communist - and not in fact Sarah Palin as he originally intimated.
From his MySpace page:
"Well, the f* *king pi_gs are ge.nocidin g... no public property for housing and no jobs for me. Di.e you f** king pi.g! I know your brai.nwash ed to love them f* *kin cop*s - f* ck you."
I'm finding it difficult to imagine a Palin supporter writing that.
We the Living. ......Peter Pan......Mein Kampf.......Commie Manifesto........Kesey?/!
A pattern emerges.......Randian-glibertarian pretty boy into Hitler, AND communism meets......McMurphy!!!!!!!
AKA, Mormonic. Pah-raize the holy Nephite, Jared.
That izz--if he was involved at all. What's a Fed judge doing gallivating around in the middle of the day? (moveover some AZ yokels hated Roll). Inside jawb--either teabugger, LDS...possibly AIPAC
J: Amigo!! My worst nightmare!! I think the shooter was a fellow antisemite.
"I'm finding it difficult to imagine a Palin supporter writing that."
Well then you're clearly not reading Ann's favorite columnist Andrew Sullivan - who says this was an assassination attempt directly caused by Sarah Palin.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/
I'm the most sad over a nine-year-old girl losing her life at a supermarket on a Saturday.
Ann's favored columnist Andrew Sullivan: "After today, it's harder to ignore threats of violence from the far right, isn't it?"
Unfortunately, many on the left have a long track record of blaming the actions of every nut on the right. They leaped at the chance to blame the Unitarian Church in Knoxville on the Sean Hannity, and other conservatives. Any allegiance to the truth or fairness are totally absent in those people.
Off-topic, but the shooter in that case stated in his own words (confession and manifesto) that he was targeting liberals. You can go herehere for information, including links to source material (it is Wikipedia, after all, so it's better to use it as an aggregator for better information. So that one was in fact a right-wing nut. Emphasis on nut, so let's move on.
And in this case as well as the Knoxville one, I really hate having to use the term nut, because it can imply that the person isn't really responsible for their actions. Unfortunately, there isn't a good single English word for someone who is irrational and whose thoughts are disjointed, but who is also an evil piece of shit who should hang and go to hell.
Unfortunately, there isn't a good single English word for someone who is irrational and whose thoughts are disjointed, but who is also an evil piece of shit who should hang and go to hell.
I thought you guys used "conservative" for that.
10,000 Americans die every day.
Why are those deaths any less entertaining?
Soap opera rules apply.
Florida said: Well then you're clearly not reading Ann's favorite columnist Andrew Sullivan - who says this was an assassination attempt directly caused by Sarah Palin.
I wouldn't say he's her favorite--maybe in her top five or so--but what you say about Sullivan's rhetoric appears to be true.
What say the Sullivanists?
I don't think it is fair to paint this lunatic as left wing or to try to pin it on anything other than his madness. Trying to score political points on a tragedy where a little girl was killed is just obscene and beneath us.
"And speaking of pieces of shit, I see Florida is posting here, too."
Proud to know I have you as an enemy. Burnishes my credentials. I see you're still only left with ad hominem attacks and unable to counter my factual arguments.
I thought you guys used "conservative" for that.
I haven't, so fuck off.
AlphaLiberal like Andrew Sullivan lacks an ounce of human decency and humility and are best ignored by decent people at all costs.
eeman Hunt said...
" That's not what a sane person attempting an assassination does."
I suspect him being a nut is the least of it...and what sane person resorts to assassination
Trying to score political points on a tragedy where a little girl was killed is just obscene and beneath us.
Amen.
Proud to know I have you as an enemy. Burnishes my credentials.
Probably the only set of credentials you've ever had. And you aren't worth enough to be my enemy. Just something I can scrape from the bottom of my shoe.
"I don't think it is fair to paint this lunatic as left wing or to try to pin it on anything other than his madness. Trying to score political points on a tragedy where a little girl was killed is just obscene and beneath us."
Agreed. However I don't believe pointing out that he was certainly NOT a conservative or a Tea Partier is inappropriate considering the hatred spewed by Alpha and his ilk today.
The guy is obviously disturbed, but I am praying not disturbed enough to get him a pass on the death penalty.
From the 3:08 mark of Loughner's last video:
"The majority of citizens in the United States of America have never read the United States of America's Constitution.
You don't have to accept the federalist laws.
Nonetheless, read the United States of America's Constitution to apprehend all of the current treasonous laws.
You're literate, listener?"
Is he a nut? Yes. Even a nut has a motivation.
Since he is in custody we will have time to find out where he's been, who he's listened to and why he felt he had to kill a member of Congress.
"Trying to score political points on a tragedy where a little girl was killed is just obscene and beneath us."
Unfortunately, the AlphaLiberals and the somefellers and the Andrew Sullivan's and the Daily Kos' and the Keith Olberman's will use this tragedy to advance their political aims. They were right out of the gate blaming this on Sarah Palin and on "right-wing teabaggers."
And if we leave them to do it they'll succeed. So we're going to call them out on it. We're not going to leave such comments unchallenged.
You're right. It's unseemly. But, sadly, if we leave the battlefield to the Democrats, then they'll use this tragedy to diminish all our rights.
War is hell. And this is war.
That's right Mikhey. Now chant the latest AA prevarications:
--the fact that Palin and teabuggers had crosshairs over Giffords' face doesn't matter
--the fact that the AZ hicks in favor of the AZ immigration law and violently opposed to HRC hated Giffords didn't matter
---the fact that AZ hicks wanted to kill Judge Roll --a catholic--doesn't matter.
--The alleged shooter was, get this, a leftist, like....like Hitler's a leftist too!
Yr tooo schtooopid to comment on this tragedy.
j wrote: What's a Fed judge doing gallivating around in the middle of the day? (moveover some AZ yokels hated Roll).
He lived in the neighborhood and was probably shopping, you stupid, insensitive prick.
Doesn't sound to me like he could tell the difference between left and right wing. He was pissed off, grandiose, confused, self centered, contemptuous.
Unfortunately, the AlphaLiberals and the somefellers and the Andrew Sullivan's and the Daily Kos' and the Keith Olberman's will use this tragedy to advance their political aims. They were right out of the gate blaming this on Sarah Palin and on "right-wing teabaggers."
Can you come up with a quote from me in which I came out blaming right-wingers for this, on either thread? You can't, because I didn't. Quite the contrary in my posts on this. So you are a liar, on top of everything else in your sad existence.
He's a Liberal. Liberals are violence-prone whack jobs who can't control their anger issues and who resort to violence with virtually no prompting necessary.
"I haven't seen him since '07. Then, he was left wing."
He was left wing in '07 and he was left wing this morning.
We should pass a law. Democrats should never be allowed to own guns.
And that includes AlphaLiberal.
Also among Loughner's favorite books:
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.
Life's ironies.
"And you aren't worth enough to be my enemy."
You can't control your hatred. You can't rebut any of my logical arguments, so you are left with just abject hatred and reduced to bullying ad hominem attacks.
I laugh at the superior intellect.
j wrote: What's a Fed judge doing gallivating around in the middle of the day? (moveover some AZ yokels hated Roll).
He lived in the neighborhood and was probably shopping, you stupid, insensitive prick.
"I laugh at the superior intellect."
Seriously, you're quoting Khan?
You can't parse the ravings of a lunatic and expect to read it like the entrials of a chicken.
This happens a couple of times a year. A person who is troubled snaps and shoots up a post office or a beer distributorship or a stock trading office.
You can't parse the left and right side of madness.
Let it go.
Paul: What he put on his video, as far as it has a direction, is definitely not 'leftist' talking about treasonous laws that go against the Constitution.
Let's go ahead and wait. I'm sure in the next few days we will know what his recent associations were and who he's been listening to lately.
"Liberals are violence-prone whack jobs who can't control their anger issues ... "
See somefeller's comment at 5:40pm if you need more evidence of this phenomenon.
Some of you just shut up. A bunch of people are dead. More are injured. A child died.
Past that there is little to say so save your crap for a while and think about something that actually matters.
"You can't parse the ravings of a lunatic and expect to read it like the entrials of a chicken."
On a different track . . . isn't this the first one of these nut jobs we've caught alive in a while? Gonna be interesting to see who and how he's defended.
Now to out myself as a total geek, but "I laugh at the superior intellect", was Captain Kirk teasing Khan.
There's not much use trying to make sense of crazy.
And there's no decency in exploiting tragedy.
I thought McCain made a fine statement. Haven't seen Obama's yet.
Wow, this is the first I heard of it. It's nice to be isolated from bad news when everyone is speculating.
Dreadful that the Judge has died, I'm hoping the Congresswoman pulls through.
"Now to out myself as a total geek, but "I laugh at the superior intellect", was Captain Kirk teasing Khan."
Oops, I meant to say quoting Kirk mocking Khan . . . but at least I got the movie reference correct - LOL
Who he listened too or read seems kind of besides the point. He is obviously mad. One of the worst killers in American history took direction from his neighbors dog.
Let it go. Both sides need to let it go.
Somefeller: do you agree with Andrew Sullivan's characterization of this shooting as an assassination attempt linked to Sarah Palin's opposition to Democrats?
Do you agree with AlphaLiberal that Sarah Palin prompted this shooting?
"I thought McCain made a fine statement. Haven't seen Obama's yet."
I never, ever listen to Barry, but I heard he gave a good statement.
Somefeller: Do you agree with DailyKos who wrote: Mission Accomplished, Sarah Palin!
I don't agree with a lot of what Somefeller says, but, as far as I can tell, he's been completely reasonable throughout the commentary on this sad event.
Don't lump him in with the ALs and J's and Andrew Sullivans of the world.
Look at the shooter
note: Liberal! Liberal! Liberal!
Kind of looks like somefeller does it not?
Somefeller, where were you when the shooting happened? And can you prove it?
You can look at my other comments on this to see where I stand with respect to speculating on motive. But I suspect you already have, and discovered you came up short when you claimed I came out of the gate attacking conservatives on this. Whether you are a moby or something else, one thing's for sure, you're a pretty sad case.
JFK was killed by a far left activist and RFK by a a third world nationalist. Blame for their deaths was soon pinned on lax gun control laws. If this guy turns out to be a former Obama volunteer, expect the same.
And I see we can add Paul O'Bilge to the list of people with little reading comprehension skills who want to make a wretched point on this tragedy. Anyway, I'm going to get something to eat. Maybe you and Florida can work together to come up with something intelligent to say.
Trooper York said: Let it go. Both sides need to let it go.
I agree that that would be best, but . . .
If the right lets it go, they get the blame. You know that's the way it works- he'll continue to be Sarah Palin's teabagging flying monkey, and anyone who dares speak up for limited government will be his supporter for years to come.
It ain't fair, but it's the way it is. The right has to push their side here.
- Lyssa
"Both sides need to let it go."
But both sides won't.
We could, but they won't.
Markos Moulitsas: "Mission Accomplished, Sarah Palin"
AlphaLiberal: "She was one of the House Democrats in Sarah Palin's "target" ad, with the crosshairs placed on a map. Fuckers."
Andrew Sullivan: "After today, it's harder to ignore threats of violence from the far right, isn't it?"
somefeller: "And speaking of pieces of shit, I see Florida is posting here, too."
Barack Obama: "Punish your enemies." "Get in their faces." "Punch them back twice as hard."
The left will and is actively using this event to advance the notion that this person was a teabagger urged to kill by Sarah Palin.
They won't stop.
Ever.
It's pathetic and sad, but that's the world we live in. We have two choices:
1) Leave the battlefield to them.
2) Fight them.
I choose to fight them.
J wrote: --The alleged shooter was, get this, a leftist, like....like Hitler's a leftist too!
Don't be so smug. It was the National Socialist German Worker's Party.
A doctor on Fox who says he was there when it happened (and saw the man shoot the congresswoman) said that a) the shooting took place in a cramped area of the entrance to the grocery store and that's why so many people were shot - crowded and no place to run and he was just shooting into them, b) no one shot back at the guy, and c) the crowd ultimately tackled him.
Aw, Jeeze, Trooper, you've got me speaking like Florida now!
This guy was truly evil. But I expect that in today's left wing cliques he was considered to be very normal. No one he knew was in a position to tell him that he was an insane idiot, because everybody he knew was spouting off the same delusional crap themselves. Atheism screws up a mind with a total arrogance that make one unable to empathise with another's feelings or to see different humans as belonging to the same God of love as himself.
I know that this incident is just grist for the partisan mill.
I bow to no one in upholding the conservative viewpoint but you can beclown yourself by going over the top with some of the rethoric in this time of tragedy.
Decent people will react decently. Others will not. It is very clear who is who. The general public will not be fooled. At least not for long.
Most everyone has shown their true colors in this incident.
lyssa that the least of your worries. I mean you are a lawyer after all.
A better, more recent photo of the shooter:
http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/azstarnet.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/d/f6/dca/df6dca68-1b7d-11e0-ac52-001cc4c002e0-revisions/4d28f13a99264.preview-300.jpg
Judge Roll was a catholic who waffled a bit on immigration.
That's called a Motive. And in the back rooms of Teabagger Co, they're high fivin'
Man, you see people who look like that every day. Sure wish he hadn't done that - he has greatly increased suffering in this world.
lyssa that the least of your worries. I mean you are a lawyer after all.
But at least I'm skinny!
:)
Arizona Daily Star:
In a MySpace profile, Loughner said “My favorite interest was reading, and I studied grammar. Conscience dreams were a great study in college. He lists among his favorite books “Mein Kampf” and “The Communist Manifesto”.
Another typical lefty murderer nutjob.
Where is AlphaLiberal to condemn his violence?
Oh wait ... he's not from Sarah Palin's uterus after all so AlphaLiberal is suddenly nowhere to be found.
Quiet about the communist killers amongst us.
Where is your outrage for Communist murders of 9-year-old little innocent girls, AlphaLiberal?
You bastard.
Here is a better photo of the shooter and the girl who says she knows him.
But I expect that in today's left wing cliques he was considered to be very normal
Close, but need to alter one word:
But I expect that in today's right-wing cliques he was considered to be very normal
Vooonderbar. Jared's fave books provided another clue: "We the Living". Add his opposition to fiat currency. Randian-glibertarians are some scary peeps--especially when....Galting.
lyssalovelyredhead said
But at least I'm skinny!
:)"
You say that like it is a good thing sweetie.
You guys are cracking me up - no, you don't know anything:
"As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy."
Plus Nazi and communist lit. Ever heard of a blog called The Macho Response? There's this crazy black dude there - and I mean "crazy" - and he keeps going on and on about the NewAge Movement, you know, that 2012 shit and Nazi thinking and shit, and how, one way or another, by whatever means, it all adds up to killing people.
I swear, that dude's as nuts as this one.
But y'all wouldn't know anything about that.
J said...That's called a Motive. And in the back rooms of Teabagger Co, they're high fivin'
Hearts are trump and that makes you the left bauer.
Just fuck off already.
"In October 2007, Loughner was cited by the Pima County Sheriff's Department for possession of drug paraphernalia, a charge that was dismissed in November 2007 when he completed a diversion program."
This is what happens when drug criminals such as Loughner and Andrew Sullivan are not made to pay for their drug crimes.
Now a 9-year-old girl is dead and Sarah Palin is to blame if you believe the drug criminal Sullivan.
If our drug laws had been administered properly and Loughner put into prison where he belongs, none of these people would be dead.
Police, prosecutors and the courts had an opportunity to get this man into an environment where he could be freed of his drug addiction and rehabilitated - perhaps he could have even gotten mental health treatment. Instead they let him loose on society where he killed a federal judge, not to mention a bunch of innocent people.
Irony upon irony.
No, ...fuck you , Randian satanist. Caphicay, chicklit?
This site of human garbage is itself evidence
J: Amigo, worst nightmare walking, you appear to be very similar psychologically speaking to the dude in Tucson. Kind of a raving, poorly educated, thinly read, nut case.
"J: Amigo, worst nightmare walking, you appear to be very similar psychologically speaking to the dude in Tucson. Kind of a raving, poorly educated, thinly read, nut case."
J is what happens when you mix equal parts stupid and cannabis.
Tea Party indoctrination did not inform this individual as surely as leftism is not responsible for the crimes of Stalin and Mao.
Just had my snack. And I see that Florida still hasn't come up with a quote from me blaming this crime on conservatives or Sarah Palin. Just a quote from me pointing out the obvious, which he/she/it reposted @6:06pm. As those crazy kids say on the internets these days, and as Florida has heard many times in he/she/its life: fail.
In any case, let's let the cops do their jobs before making any more snap judgments regarding motive. And if you are a believer, say a prayer or two for the families involved in this.
J said: No, ...fuck you , Randian satanist. Caphicay, chicklit?
You're coming into clearer focus now asshole. Keep it up (if you can).
Palladian: I think you are right!! I hadn't thought of that but you are absolutely right. A stupid stoner. Tiresome stupid stoner.
peter hoh said...
There's not much use trying to make sense of crazy.
And there's no decency in exploiting tragedy.
I thought McCain made a fine statement. Haven't seen Obama's yet.
Good points. Agree on McCain's. Obama made a slip and used past tense talking about her (natural, under the circumstance), but otherwise standard statement (no criticism).
MadisonMan said...
Wow, this is the first I heard of it. It's nice to be isolated from bad news when everyone is speculating.
Dreadful that the Judge has died, I'm hoping the Congresswoman pulls through.
Doctors are saying she will, but rehab is going to be an uphill fight (from Fox).
PS I thought Brewer's statement was good.
Ritmo said: Tea Party indoctrination did not inform this individual as surely as leftism is not responsible for the crimes of Stalin and Mao.
Let me know when Tea Partiers start hanging Jared Loughner Christmas decorations on their trees and wearing Jared Loughner T-shirts, and representatives start citing Jared Loughner as their favorite philosopher, m'Kay?
FOX showed pics of the shooter playing a saxophone.
That is surely a clue.
"This happens a couple of times a year. A person who is troubled snaps and shoots up a post office or a beer distributorship or a stock trading office."
In this instance, however, there does appear to be a political aspect to the shooting, given it was an organized event with Giffords at the Safeway.
It may not be your typical 'going postal.'
Conservatives4: You must be right because only a leftie would be smart enough to know in 2007 when he went off the rails that the tea party would be coming around in 2009. Sort of a pre hoc ergo propter hoc kind of thing.
Is that you confusing Stalin and Mao with Che Guevara, Lyssa?
Get your leftist scumbags right, Dear!
And I think you're confusing those guys with Marx, as well.
No, Ritmo, why would you say that? You do know that the White House had a Mao Ornament on their tree in '09, that a White House spokesperson cited Mao as one of her fav philosophers, and that leftists all over treasure their Moa t-shirts, right? An informed and intelligent fellow like you couldn't have missed that sort of thing, could he?
AlphaLiberal: "Who is next? Her office has been receiving threats of violence for some time."
Where is AlphaLiberal now to justify these irresponsible comments?
He's nowhere to be found. Fucking coward.
Are you referring to the claim of Marxist historical approaches to prediction, Michael?
From Hotair:
"A former classmate of Loughner at Pima Community College said he was “obviously very disturbed.”
“He disrupted class frequently with nonsensical outbursts,” said Lynda Sorenson, who took a math class with Loughner last summer at Pima Community College’s Northwest campus.
Sorenson doesn’t recall if he ever made any threats or uttered political statements but he was very disruptive, she said. He was asked to leave the pre-algebra class several times and eventually was barred from class, said Sorenson, a Tucson resident"
This is the type of person for whom the term "bat-shit crazy" was invented.
He wasn't a conservative and he wasn't a liberal, or if he was one of them that doesn't seem to be the primary motivation for his action.
So will all the people attempting to score imaginary political points please shut the hell up.
"FOX showed pics of the shooter playing a saxophone. That is surely a clue."
That depends on what the meaning of "is" is. No?
Just ONE snapped mind.
Doctors are saying she will, but rehab is going to be an uphill fight
I hope that's true -- that she'll pull through.
What the heck is happening to the Saints though. I wonder if they can come back.
Conservatives 4: No, I wasn't.
And Albert Einstein would say?
Informed and intelligent doesn't mean obsessed with conspiratorial newstories of not very relevant or important current events.
In any event, many killers and others of questionable moral fiber had historical and cultural significance. Gengis Khan, for instance.
"He wasn't a conservative and he wasn't a liberal ..."
Yes he was.
He was a liberal, a communist, part of the rebel alliance and a traitor.
One can accurately say that he was a leftist who happens to be nutty enough to shoot a politician.
But if politics was the motivator, it can also be called an assasination.
You cannot discount it until it is ruled out.
There have been plenty of leftwing rants and screeds about the lawlessness of the Bush administration and accusations of Ws shredding of the Constitution by prominate liberals and politicians and not just the internet nutjobs.
So, when it is obviously a leftwinger pulling the trigger, suddenly we are to NOT link the perpetrators radical politics to his shooting of a politician?
Sorry, but the target herself and the venue makes it a prime motive.
We'll find out.
"catieparker's Twitter feed:
"As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy."
And why is every diplomatic or intellectual exercise an opportunity to moralize? Wouldn't someone secure in their morals and how they are justified and carried out not feel the need to obsessively moralize over every act in life? Is every act a moral act? Does my interest in eating a cup of yogurt tonight have moral import? What if it were macaroni and cheese?
"Sorry, but the target herself and the venue makes it a prime motive."
Yes. This Congresswoman was only one of two who voted against Nancy Pelosi for the leadership position in the House.
I wonder whether police are protecting the other dissenter?
The Romans, for another. (Re: 6:47 comment).
"He was ... part of the rebel alliance and a traitor."
So we're bringing Star Wars into this now?
" Is every act a moral act?"
Would that it were so.
Trooper, you need to fly to New Orleans right away and have a beer of commiseration with Beth.
I look forward to you showing me the morally appropriate method for tying shoelaces, then, Pogo.
"So we're bringing Star Wars into this now?"
http://nolabels.org/
"I look forward to you showing me the morally appropriate method for tying shoelaces, then, Pogo."
There's no sticking your finger in the holes.
"Trooper, you need to fly to New Orleans right away and have a beer of commiseration with Beth."
Things look different up here.
Who knew 7&9 could be a threat?
Congrats to the Seahawks and their fans. They played some ball.
""He wasn't a conservative and he wasn't a liberal "
Seriously, though ... we know he was, in fact, a liberal.
How do we know that?
Because AlphaLiberal is nowhere to be found. GarageMahal isn't commenting. Somefeller dropped some scat and then disappeared to go eat rather than condemn the communists.
In short, if the shooter had been a member of the Repulican Party, or worse, the Tea Party, or had been anywhere near Sarah Palin's uterus, all these employees of the Democrat Party would be out in force on this comment board.
The only time they go silent is when another one of their own commits some heinous crime against humanity.
Then ... it's crickets.
So that's how we know this shooter is a Democrat.
Beth, I'm sorry your team lost. I fear Green Bay will be evickserated tomorrow.
Football can be a nice diversion from crappy news.
No, he couldn't be a NewAger:
Arizona Assassin Obsessed With Mind Control
See, that tin foil hat he was wearing protected him - just like the U.F.O. nuts.
Nothing NewAge here. It's just some "unclassifiable" shit that no one will ever be able to pin-point but Oprah and Shirley MacLaine - in 2012 of course.
Fascinating analysis, Florida. Did you also see Jesus in your toast today?
"Congrats to the Seahawks and their fans. They played some ball."
Gracious.
Based on what I read online; Nebraska fans were not so generous after the Holiday Bowl this year.
Sorry about that Beth. It is tough to win two years in a row.
Wow, the sheriff of Pima County is really laying his thoughts out there (I'm watching CNN). He blames talk radio and calls AZ the capital of hatred and bigotry.
The left thinks the right is evil and insane.
the right thinks the left is evil and insane.
Loughner has demonstrated he is evil and insane. So naturally....
Crack: There is no question that there is a bunch of new age bull in that killer's head. Fantastic news about your new whip, your new company whip, and your new job. Congrats again.
Here's also how we know the shooter was a liberal: The Congresswoman was a conservative Republican.
According to MSNBC, although she had switched to the Democrat Party, she had been a lifelong Republican businesswoman who supported Arizona's immigration law. In fact, she didn't think it went far enough.
MSNBC: "She hasn't been shy in expressing her disappointment in the U.S. immigration system, which she's described as "broken." After her own state passed a tough anti-immigration law last year, Giffords criticized the measure as too weak to secure the border or stop drug smuggling."
"Giffords established herself as a fiscally conservative, pro-business centrist."
"She is a member of the "Blue Dog" coalition of Democrats who push for conservative budget and tax policies and has served on the House's Armed Services, Foreign Affairs and Science and Technology committees. She's also a vocal supporter of the military and military families."
Is it any wonder that a communist Democrat - urged on by his President to "get in their faces" and "punish your enemies" - tried to kill her?
Murder is an "immoral act", encoded into law.
Good law...from my perspective.
Does anyone disagree?
Injuries, Trooper--on both sides of the ball--plus the tougher schedule that always goes with winning under the NFL's formula. N.O just couldn't over come that. Plus everyone had a year to game plan them. The Saints couldn't sneak up on anyone, to say the least--plus the very real fact the adrenal glands pump harder on opposing teams when playing defending champs. All those reasons combined make/made for a tough row to hoe..
Yes, interesting what he says about Az being the capital of bigotry. He's so over the vitriol. Poor guy. (I do wonder what he is specifically referring to.)
Amen, Virgil. Being from 'bama, I completely agree.
The Left will use its time tested strategy. They will lie like hell. they will continue to lie like hell. They will trot out the simple mided minions to rabidly lie like hell. The Leftist media will provide cover, keep the stories telling the liea active and stretch the story til people are weary of all the childish leftist tantrume. Then, when the truth does come out they will admit that maybe the lie were not completely accurate - on page 37 below the fold.
Of course,during the nest election cycle the lying garbage will continually refer to the phoney lying media stories as proof of how evil conservatives are.
Perfectly explains Sullivan, AL, ect.
Talk radio, of course. The all-purpose boogeyman. Is there any evidence this guy even listened to talk radio?
Is there any evidence this guy even listened to talk radio?
It's so cute that you think that it would matter.
End of the Crazed Afgan Vet explanation:
"The Army has confirmed that the suspect was never in the Army. He attempted to enlist in the Army but was rejected for service. In accordance with the Privacy Act, we will not discuss why he was rejected."
"Is there any evidence this guy even listened to talk radio?"
Yes: 6 dead and 12 wounded.
He must, at some point, have heard Barack Obama tell his supporters to punish their enemies. To "get in their faces" and to "punch back twice as hard."
He must, at some point, have heard Barack Obama tell his supporters that "if they bring a knife, we bring a gun."
The killer was a liberal. His favorite books included Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto and he killed a politician MSNBC described as a former conservative Republican opposed to illegal immigration and who voted against Nancy Pelosi.
Is there any doubt that Air America and Keith Olberman are to blame for airing their hateful eliminationist rhetoric?
The Democrats have blood on their hands today.
In my last post, the "it" refers to evidence, not talk radio.
"The Saints surcame."
Café post is up, for people who want to gab about football or anything else.
"Is there any evidence this guy even listened to talk radio?"
Maybe, Keith Olberman.
Oh, wait. Listening to Olberman makes you want to kill yourself.
Florida -- 19 Dems voted against Pelosi.
And J (or whoever) on KOS there is a post about *targeting* Dems in the primaries who were not left enough. Ms. Giffords name was even bolded because she was a Blue Dog.
A map on KOS had BULLSEYES on the states where they could focus.
So let's stop the stupid literalizing of the political when it serves some warped purpose of yours.
As for the shooter -- some of Lougher's stuff sounds seriously like schizophrenia. Assuming they left that in the DSM-V.
Someone asked "...and what sane person resorts to assassination"
The different guys who tried (on more than one occasion) to end WWII by assassinating Hitler were quite sane. But yes, some are quite crazy.
This whole thing is horrible and very very sad. My prayers for the victims and their families and friends.
"19 Dems voted against Pelosi."
I wonder if police are protecting the other 18 from the repercussions of that unfortunate decision.
"the morally appropriate method for tying shoelaces, then, Pogo.
Every act can be offered, however small.
"So let's stop the stupid literalizing of the political when it serves some warped purpose of yours."
But see, that's just the thing. Democrats won't ever agree to such a rule.
If Republicans or conservatives leave the field of battle, then Democrats like somefeller and AlphaLiberal and Sullivan and Olberman would be able to characterize this as an attack by Palin supporters on a Democrat.
Instead, it's a communist attack on a Conservative supportive of the military and who voted against Pelosi.
Republicans can't leave the battlefield.
Because Democrats would then be able to get away with what they've been getting away with for 100 years ... owning all the presses and writing the history their way.
I refuse to let them have this field, and so any time they pop their fucking heads up we have to rise up and smite them.
Refusing to battle leaves the field of glory - and history - to the enemy.
It appears that this young murderer had an older accomplice which the police are searching for as we rant on here. I suspect that many of the discussions of whether this was left or right or middle of the road violence may be settled then. Or not.
The point about this dude's mental processes is that they lacked the usual line that identifies him as a Right winger or a Left winger. This goes to show you that there are some evil folks that are taken over by the dark side and don't bother to hide it, but cooperate with it. Christians speak about their knowing the mind of Christ. This dude seems very proud that he knew the mind of Satan, who is the personal evil one. All his mind control mantras are the assertions of the powers of the evil one. So he is really around the bend from politics and is another Son of Sam - Charles Manson murder tool. Ask Crack who studies these things.
One of my earliest thoughts on this story was "Could the judge have been the intended target?" Still don't think we can say for sure. Per my comment on the previous thread, I'm thinking it's safe to go with Hinckley as opposed to Princip.
Wow, the sheriff of Pima County is really laying his thoughts out there (I'm watching CNN). He blames talk radio and calls AZ the capital of hatred and bigotry.
Clarence runs a pretty good department with an excellent homocide unit. His main failings are that he is a very partisan Democrat given to echoing talking points and he's getting pretty old.
The latter aggravates the former. Fifteen years ago he would not have said anything that stupid.
So, Sheriff, which talk show hosts are advocating political assasination?
And what was the name of that guy Arizonans elected Governor way back in 1974? Oh yeah, Raul Castro, a legal immigrant from Mexico.
The point about this dude's mental processes is that they lacked the usual line that identifies him as a Right winger or a Left winger.
Yet Andy Sullivan has already pinned it on the tea party and Sarah Palin. He's scum and I want Ann Althouse to disavow him.
"The point about this dude's mental processes is that they lacked the usual line that identifies him as a Right winger or a Left winger."
I disagree. I think the point about this dude's mental process is is that he was encouraged by his President to bring a gun to the fight, and to get in their faces and to punch back twice as hard. He's taking orders. That's his process.
That, plus The Communist Manifesto being on his "favorite book" list clearly identifies him as a committed Democrat doing his President's bidding.
His victim was a lifelong conservative Republican (only recently switched to the Dems) who voted against Pelosi ... and judging by the ravings of Andrew Sullivan and Markos Moulitsas, those are capital crimes in Democrats eyes.
So, we're going to play the blame game started by AlphaLiberal. We didn't start the game. But we're going to fucking finish it.
We're going to identify this man's warped fucking politics. And we're going to put the blame where it rightly belongs.
Here is a video of an interview with Rep Giffords from last March, after her office had been vandalized.
She addresses the violent rhetoric and imagery from Sarah Palin and others in strong terms. She was right.
And... yeah. You guys always say the shooter was a nut when a Dem or liberal gets shot. But we sure have a lot more people getting shot, or attempted shootings (as in Tides Foundation attempt).
All as the rhetoric from the right has gotten increasingly threatening and violent, creating a volatile political atmosphere.
Oh, AL, go to hell you asswipe gasbag.
Just admit you were wrong and shut up.
Alex,
[Andy Sullivan's] scum and I want Ann Althouse to disavow him.
Dude, that's not going to happen and I told you why.
The craziness - and the killings - will go on, with everyone hiding behind a cheery smile, Oprah's "Best Life Ever" and the phrase "it's incomprehensible".
Really, once the 2012 shit was put in there, it should be obvious I'm on to something, but the charade must be played out to it's end - an even bigger mass murder - for anyone (else) to admit it.
"All as the rhetoric from the right has gotten increasingly threatening and violent, creating a volatile political atmosphere."
AL: There's a lot of ugly, volatile rhetoric coming from the left as well. And this guy appears to be a nutcase.
Its really sad how people want to take this situtation and project on it what they want to see. Blame those they hate
Florida, did she vote for HCR?
Crack - I think that the left is looking for any pretext to launch a civil war. Already the Pima County sheriff is linking this shooting to right-wing talk radio.
"All as the rhetoric from the right has gotten increasingly threatening and violent, creating a volatile political atmosphere."
Barack Obama: "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun."
But don't take my word for it. This quote appeared in the Wall Street Journal.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/
There is violent rhetoric. And it is coming from the White House and is directed against conservatives like Congresswoman Giffords, which is encouraging communists to bring a gun to the fight.
Sadly, the Communists are doing just that and shooting those who vote against Pelosi.
It's a sad day when America's president encourages this sort of violence.
"Florida, did she vote for HCR?"
Sadly yes (every single Democrat voted for it) but she was a staunch opponent of illegal alien amnesty ... and in Arizona that pissed off a lot of Democrats and Communists.
She was a lifelong Republican conservative who switched recently to the Democrat side. But even arch-liberal MSNBC describes her as an anti-tax conservative.
And let's remember Barack Obama's orders: Bring a gun to the fight.
Flashback: Giffords Opponent Had M16 Shooting Event, 'Help Remove Gabrielle Giffords From Office'
Why do Republicans want so much to bring guns into our politics, to our rallies and public events? Even to the point of embracing armed militias.
The RNC candidates were bragging about how many guns they had.
Palin, Beck, et al are legitimizing guns in politics. We need to make it socially unacceptable to introduce weaponry into political disputes. It's deadly.
And remember:
I didn't say this would result in anything but murder.
Don't quibble like I said anything else.
Murder - that's how i discovered it, and that's where it leads. Like TG said, speaking in Christian vernacular, it's the dark side, Satan, manifested. Anything we've defined as "good" is corny and/or questionable, and anything defined as "bad" is "sophisticated". That's the scam - brought over from Europe by the Pagans - that's evolved into what we know as NewAge.
America evolved from the Puritans, and we - atheists included - should be proud of that:
We're trying.
You meant Democratic side. Thanks.
That sheriff is named Clarence Dubnik. If I were him, I'd be pissed at my parents for giving me that name.
Alex,
Crack - I think that the left is looking for any pretext to launch a civil war.
Don't think it - know it. Liberals have told me that so many times, thinking that (since I'm black) I'd want it too, that I've accepted it as fact.
It's Manson's dream.
"You meant Democratic side. Thanks."
No, I didn't.
They're not democratic.
They're Democrats.
There is a huge difference.
They belong to the Democrat Party.
There is no Democrat Party. You're not doing yourself any favors.
"Don't think it - know it. Liberals have told me that so many times, thinking that (since I'm black) I'd want it too, that I've accepted it as fact."
They would lose, and badly. Better to just let California secede from the Union and all the far left move there. No loss to the rest of us.
"Palin, Beck, et al are legitimizing guns in politics. We need to make it socially unacceptable to introduce weaponry into political disputes."
Gee, if more law-abiding citizens at this political rally had a defensive weapon maybe the nutjob wouldn't have taken down 17 fucking defenseless victims.
Instead, political rallies are made by Democrats into "defensive weapon free zones."
So the body count piles up to 11venty.
Smart move asshole.
Nobody would try this at a Palin event because they know we're not fucking standing there defenseless.
With Alex -- the Sheriff needs to shut his mouth.
I know most Arizonians are stunned and grieving, but he's a professional and he should be opining in such an inflammatory way. Good grief!!
(As noted above, the Chicago way rhetoric from the POTUS on previous occasions hasn't contributed much either.)
How about looking at the evidence that this guy was seriously disturbed and stepping away from the flame throwing either way.
"Nobody would try this at a Palin event because they know we're not fucking standing there defenseless."
And not for nothing, but this is a primary reason why you should encourage your family members not to attend Democrat fund raisers and political rallies.
It isn't safe because Democrats make everyone give up their defensive weapons in order to attend, making it a target-rich environment. Palin brings her own shotgun.
No way would I let my kid near a Democrat rally.
I don't want my family members to be a fucking victim.
Sheriff Dupnik: The anger and hatred on talk radio has gotten outrageous.
Those fomenting hate and violence have many defenders and apologists.
Somefeller, your bias was exposed when you said he set out to kill liberals. He shot the congresswoman because he lived in her district and the Safeway was close to his home. Your anger at Florida is and another fact that proves your prejudice.
"he should NOT be opining in such an inflammatory way."
There. That's what I meant to type.
Alpha Liberal, how upset are you that killer was just another liberal that shares your hatred?
"Those fomenting hate and violence have many defenders and apologists."
I join AlphaLiberal in denouncing Barack Obama for fomenting hate and violence and encouraging people to bring guns to political rallies.
It's the first sensible thing AlphaLiberal has written on this subject.
This really is interesting. I learned that not only are astoundingly cold winters caused by global warming, but left wing killers are caused by Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck.
Sheriff Dupe is a native of Arizona (new state motto: "The Mecca of Hatred and Bigotry!")
I join AlphaLiberal in denouncing his hateful rhetoric and piss-poor tourism platform.
Wait scratch that. Left wing assassins are caused by Sarah Palin. She's the designated Hate Puppet right now isn't she?
Palin, Beck, et al are legitimizing guns in politics. We need to make it socially unacceptable to introduce weaponry into political disputes. It's deadly.
YOU ARE A HYSTERICALLY IGNORANT HYPOCRITE
Here is the president you voted for:
“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said at a Philadelphia fundraiser Friday night. “Because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl.
And where were you?
Utterly silent.
Just stop while you're behind.
Thanks.
Those fomenting hate and violence have many defenders and apologists.
Well, there was a post on the Daily Kos about Giffords specifically saying she is dead to me.
Of course the little pansy took it down.
And where were you?
Utterly silent.
I declare, Gentlemen, that the more we encourage the possession and usage of guns, the less they will be used!
I am, after all, a Republican!
It's as simple and clear as the spelling of potatoe.
Michael,
I missed your comment before:
Thanks! This morning I got in my spiffy new car, plugged my iPod into the Microsoft SYNC™ and said "Shuffle ON", took the long way to work so I could enjoy the tunes in comfort, and was still a 1/2 hour early - first one through the door except for my supervisor - and, man, was he pleased to see me back! (He asked me to talk to the kids about what it means to have a work ethic.) Today's a 12 hour day, but I don't mind at all:
I "love" to work when I'm allowed to - I just wish it was in music.
Oh yea - I got a call today from one of George Clinton's sound men, just checking up on me. That was cool. He said, when I'm ready, he'll gladly record my new shit.
Is that cool, or what?
My year's starting out good!
Name the last right-winger in American politics whose assassination was encouraged and carried out, Jay?
Try to be more current than Lincoln (although to be rational, he wasn't exactly a right-winger).
Crickets.
The high body count among Democratic politicians proves, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that LEFTIES are the more aggressive and violent faction!
It's as clear as intelligent design.
Name the last right-winger in American politics whose assassination was encouraged and carried out, Jay?
JFK.
Killed by a communist.
LBJ was a communist?
JFK was a right-winger?
Name the last right-winger in American politics whose assassination was encouraged and carried out, Jay?
Um, huh?
This guy is a leftist.
So is the uni-bomber.
So was Oswald.
Posters on the DU & Kos openly wished for Cheney's death went he went into the hospital.
An assassination movie was made about GW.
You have no point.
"The high body count among Democratic politicians proves, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that LEFTIES are the more aggressive and violent faction!"
Can you even name the Democrat politicians who comprise your "body count"?
If you can (and I don't think you can) then I will respond.
But only if you provide a list of alleged Democrat victims.
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