We join the inane chatter about Julian Assange somewhere near the end of the 50th minute:
"... just because he's a rapist doesn't mean I'm saying he's some some sort of violent... It's such a loaded term...."
There's much more, of course, but that gives you a feeling for the discussion. Continue at your own risk.
ADDED: Instapundit repeats the "just because he's a rapist" quote and snarks "It's not rape-rape," which is a reference to what Whoopi Goldberg said about Roman Polanski.
AND: Back in the 1970s, beginning with the extremely influential book "Against Our Will" by Susan Brownmiller, feminist doctrine portrayed rape as an act of violence. I have been in the presence of feminists who would jump on you, quite harshly, if you said there was some sexuality involved. No, it was 100% violence. You were a heretic if you didn't accept that doctrine. I would challenge Maureen Tkacik with the proposition that if you don't think it's violence, then you shouldn't call it rape.
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Whyyyy aaaalll the looooooong vooooooowel sooooooouunds?
Like, like, like ..... I don't like Maureen. But is that too judgmental?
Are we sure Amanda is a woman and not some gay dude?
'Cause that would explain a lot.
These two women... speaking about sex and not speaking about sex... are so hot I agree with what they say... on account that they did say it in a hot manner ;)
I haven't watched the whole conversation.. but if I had I would maybe have quoted the film Disgrace (2008).. where national stereotypes seem to practically disintegrate.
Its a painful film but i believe these women by watching it would come to the understanding that not all crimes ring alike.
The film I speak of in my mind drives home the point but...
I still believe that in a developed society.. the kind that Asange himself believes it is his duty to fix.. he should have taken better care.
meaning he should go to jail on the sex charge... while thanking the government that made it possible.
while maybe giving them a Nobel Prize ;)
I think if we are going to pat ourselves on the back we need to be clear.
Where's Kookie on this one?
You've got to love this controversy.
On the one hand, you've got the crazy, America hating left.
On the other hand, you've got whack job feminism.
In Sweden, rape appears to be whatever in the fuck a girl wants it to be if she's unhappy with a tryst.
Kookie, I keep asking you this question. The adoring audience for your political stance is the type of whack job woman that would first stalk a lefty hero like Assange, then charge him with rape once she finds out he's sleeping with her friend.
This is the kind of woman you get for espousing Kookie politics.
Does this cause some doubt?
Here's to hoping that Assange and the loony feminist bitches destroy each other. They deserve one another.
Asange could be looking to himself to be getting the pass that Bill Clinton got.. and why not?
Asange's world saving crusade is more important than .. just about sex!!
its just sex!!.. sex sex sex!!.. you cant just get over the idea that Bill Clinton got a blow job!
Assange is saving the world while you are focusing in a private sex life..
so waht somebody gets hurt while in the road to Gethsemane.
Bill Clinton, our own two term Messiah... how is that working out for you? compared to Asange - a foreigner messiah?
while our own presidents American ship is in doubt ..why would you?
I'm a betting man.. and these are weird times.
Don't bet against us!
Don't bet with Asange!
The idea that someone can use a WWII sex connection to screw the United States after the same US saved their butt..
Waht can we expect in the so called war on terror?
In the war on terror, the only ally stretchiest as far as the latest payoff.
I cant even count on a typist error for my death.
the 9/11 industry.. is that wahtw we noe call comitted!
I'm sorry, I'm afraid/not so afraid anymore..
whre is the head honch?
It doesn't speak well for Bloggingheads that they're willing to give Marcotte a soapbox. She is a horrible person. Honestly, if her mother had opted for an abortion the world would be a better place.
They have different accents than I do and tend to use simple adjectives multiple times, but I don't see the content of their friendly conversation as worthy of disdain.
They discuss foreign films, what "rape" and "prison" mean in Sweden. A variety of things. If they were a little more sure of themselves, a little less afraid of offending listeners, they would have been able to explore the ideas they brought up in more depth.
Not everyone comes into this world as a sophisticate, some people take time to acquire the mental tricks others take for granted. I see no reason to cut them off at the knees. If anything, it's counterproductive.
Shame on Althouse. I hope she doesn't treat her students this way.
Pap test: pass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if5XbL2I1Ic
This is one of those things where you can feel your brain draining away as you watch.
I walked around a low-security Swedish prison in Helsingborg, Sweden. It looks like any other prison, with 30 ft high, barb-wired topped fences and security cameras everywhere.
It didn't look too bad inside, but, a prison is still a prison. Sweden also has maximum security prisons, and prison gangs, just like any other country. I'm not sure a rapist would be assigned to a minimum security place.
Clicked on the link and my browser crashed.
I've heard of brain-numbing, but those girls suck the cycles right out of Intel!
Jason (the commenter),
If they were a little more sure of themselves, a little less afraid of offending listeners, they would have been able to explore the ideas they brought up in more depth.
Ahh, Jason, you have to remember that, in the world of the sophisticated, they make you pay a price for that.
Not everyone comes into this world as a sophisticate, some people take time to acquire the mental tricks others take for granted. I see no reason to cut them off at the knees. If anything, it's counterproductive.
Shame on Althouse. I hope she doesn't treat her students this way.
I'd put money on it that, at least in her heart, she does - Good Lord, man, can't you read? She does.
That said, are we sure these aren't the two women charging Assange?
They look like his type,...
Jason,
You're missing the point that Miss Marcotte likes to jump down the throat of anyone female and conservative that questions capital F, Feminist dogma.
If her interlocutor had been a known conservative and had written what she said out loud as a blog post, A.M. would have called her a misogynist, rape-apologist, or any number of heavily loaded, untrue and insulting descriptors.
See: Wikipedia on A.M and the Duke Rape case
i'm no fan but I don't remember the trial...
When that happened at Burger King I just moved to a more distant table.
Amanda Marcotte!
Shit, I didn't know it was that psychotic bitch!
She still dares to show her face in public?
Feminists have no shame, do they?
What a couple of vapid, air-headed, ditzy women. And these 2 are supposed to be leftist "public intellectuals"?
Bloggingheads needs to give quasi-Miranda warnings to people like Marcotte and Tkacik before they record their humiliating performances.
How are these women (sorry, wymyn) able to draw some sort of income and pay bills?
How are these women (sorry, wymyn) able to draw some sort of income and pay bills?
Why Amanda Marcotte? I thought she was an irrelevant screeder.
In a very guarded and circumlocuitous way, they briefly probe the surface of an idea that they fear to speak aloud:
Some rape accusations are lies.
In feminism, as for much of the left some truths must not be spoken.
Continue?!
I stopped at the words "Amanda Marcotte".
"Just because he's a rapist ... it's such a loaded term." Well, yes, I think it's supposed to be. That's how we distinguish a violent assault from mere boorish behavior.
"It's perceived way differently by women than it is by men." And can anyone guess why that might be? (Male rape victims, put your hands down.)
When you're having sex with someone you don't know very well ... messed up stuff happens." Having sex with someone you don't know very well IS messed-up stuff happening.
@Althouse: "...if you don't think it's violence, then you shouldn't call it rape."
Rape means just what women choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.
Why BHTv put these two retards on is kind of mystery. Nothing to say worth listening to.
I think the main problem with BHTV is that the subjects aren't used to speaking for a video recording. They (generally, I haven't watched this one yet) have all the conversational tics and dead time that one finds in an over-long telephone conversation. Tedious to watch, no matter what the topic.
Texpatriate,
"When you're having sex with someone you don't know very well ... messed up stuff happens." Having sex with someone you don't know very well IS messed-up stuff happening.
Exactly!
Pogo,
Rape means just what women choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.
Indeed. I've had women ask me to rape them. Seriously. They'd tell me the route they were walking home and everything, but I wasn't to let them know where I'd be, just to make it more "real".
Women are full of shit that way. I was just reading about the Playboy Mansion escapades women are complaining about in The Daily Mail and thinking, "Well shit, if you weren't a big enough whore to go there with Hugh Hefner, then you wouldn't have anything to complain about - except how worthless a human being you are without being sexual."
And yes, mishu, these people do pull down a paycheck, along with Andrew Sullivan and a whole host of other idiots who are capable of typing but not thinking.
Last but not least, I'd like to thank Droopy (Robert Wright) for bringing us bloggingheads so we can actually see who we've been reading. It does tell us something to be able to see these awful people. Except for, of course, Mickey Kaus, there's no one I could see being a friend of mine, offline, and - after seeing them here - would ever want to read again. Bloggingheads is providing a valuable service in that way.
Rape is going the way of racist;
A once powerful word slowly drained of any meaning.
I'm no fan of Assange but have we come to this:
"I'll respect you in the morning"=rape
At best it is a new crime, constructive rape. Jilted lovers, rejoice.
Oh, was Mr Assange tried in court and found guilty of rape?
Didn't think so.
So he's an alleged rapist.
Two law professors don't understand, or care for, presumed innocence. Althouse and Glenn Reynolds also believe in torturing people and have no problem with innocent people being tortured.
Some law professors.
Amanda Marcotte is probably just traumatized by the fact his parents gave him a girl's name. Funny, he looks just about what I thought a hard-core feminazi would look like.
Did this discussion start out with the question:
So what's your major?
Ms. Tkacik is so eloquent!
Maureen Tcakik has some smokin' eyes.
Can't bear to click open the link.
That was pretty mean, Crack. From what I know of Althouse she'd be an excellent professor. Tough, but fair, and understanding when needed.
Jason (the commenter) said...
Shame on Althouse. I hope she doesn't treat her students this way.
Bachelor degrees, high GPA's and LSAT scores - the admission process to law school tends to filter out people who are unable to explore ideas in depth.
I will admit today that I have not always used a condom in consensual sex. Will there be an international manhunt for me, too?
Are there any other men here who have not used condoms during consensual sex? Watch out for that dragnet!
Alpha, you are such a douche.
And by the way, I stopped the one gang rape attempt on me by staying perfectly still and saying, "I will kill you - I don't which one I'll get, but I will kill at least one of you" - and they let me go, calling me a "pussy".
This was in onboard a Navy vessel, so they knew the threat was real - there was no where for them to hide.
Shame on Althouse. I hope she doesn't treat her students this way.
Althouse has a grudge against Amanda Marcotte. (About???) Does she hold grudges against students, too?
Wouldn't be surprised.
Yeah, Ann has it out for Amanda Marcotte. I guess Maureen T, of the smoky eyes, just got caught in the crossfire.
Both petty and vindictive! Like too many academics, she harbors grudges for years.
I can't really give a crap about the frivolus reduction of the term "rape" to mean not wearing a condom. But if it hurts Assange. then I'm all for him being charged with whatever foolishness the Swedes have on the books.
If his name was Khalid Abdul, and he stole and distributed hundreds of thousands of secret military documents, he'd be in Gitmo (or better, a black prison in the MidEast somewhere). The fact that he's out porking hideous scrunts instead of being punished for his crimes is a major annoyance to me. Also, I'm hoping that the fact that his accomplice is rotting in a military jail while he's signing book deals should take some of the lustre off his "Robin Hood of Information" reputation, but it hasn't yet.
Scrutineer:
"Bloggingheads needs to give quasi-Miranda warnings to people like Marcotte and Tkacik before they record their humiliating performances."
Hee.
deborah,
Can't bear to click open the link.
That was pretty mean, Crack. From what I know of Althouse she'd be an excellent professor. Tough, but fair, and understanding when needed.
I don't doubt she probably is, but I've made no secret of the fact that, as someone who teaches about religion, I don't trust her opinion. And she's always happy to hype, or even defend, a nasty or sinister idea on the blog, giving us a picture of what goes on in her mind that's not always pretty or defensible.
Say what you want about my style, the swearing, whatever, but you'll never be able to say "The Crack Emcee said something stupid" or "The Crack Emcee came down on the side of evil" or "The Crack Emcee is a bad guy" or even that I blurred the line - I don't play that "sophisticated" French game Boomers indulge in to be cool.
Ann Althouse does, and it's something that's not to her (sweetly smiling) credit. And, if she was alone in it, she'd be really bad, but as a member of a sick tribe, she's just par for the course, so whatever.
"And she's always happy to hype, or even defend, a nasty or sinister idea on the blog, giving us a picture of what goes on in her mind that's not always pretty or defensible."
Such as?
I took down my condom post after looking into it a little more. That's not the entire accusation against Mr Assange. There's more, including accusation of "withdrawal of consent."
I don't know what the story is so I'll retract that.
Even though Althouse, Reynolds and the rest are ready to lynch the guy, I believe in old fashioned presumed innocence, rejected by both the right and the left in this case.
In other news:
"A beauty competition for goats began Wednesday in Saudi Arabia, as part of an auction bringing together traders and herders in the holy Muslim city of Mecca.
"Auction supervisor Fawzi al-Subhi said that over 170 animals are competing for the coveted title 'most beautiful goat'. He expects the winner to be sold for at least $18,000."
Somehow, I don't think either of these two would have an ululation in Mecca of winning, although they might do well in the talent competition.
"Even though Althouse, Reynolds and the rest are ready to lynch the guy, "
Oh, bullshit, AL.
It's the left stabbing the left this time. I'm just enjoying the hoisting on one's own petard.
The Crack Emcee: Except for, of course, Mickey Kaus, there's no one I could see being a friend of mine, offline, and - after seeing them here - would ever want to read again. Bloggingheads is providing a valuable service in that way.
Megan McArdle always comes out well, too.
Alpha, don't be so dense. Nobody is claming Assange wouldn't have a presumption of innocence in a U.S. Courtroom. But as usual you deliberately miss the point. The man has zero rights in the U.S. as he is neither a citizen nor is he in any way under our jurisdiction. Until the Obama Admin. gets some brains and declares him an enemy combatant, we'll never get him to a Courtroom (or better, a military tribunal).
And by the way, not a single person ever arrested had already been convicted of the crime, so stuff your phony-baloney insistence that we never talk about a case until the conviction has been secured where the sun don't shine. Makes you
look like a total dunce.
McArdle rocks, Jason. But you didn't like the last winner of Project Runway...not lady-like enough, or something ;)
Wait...
I think I misunderstood you...sorry :)
AlphaLiberal,
I will admit today that I have not always used a condom in consensual sex. Will there be an international manhunt for me, too?
I don't know. Did you promise your partner that you would use one, and then (oops) forget? And are you Swedish?
"Yeah, Ann has it out for Amanda Marcotte."
Alpha says, and provides Google results. Hey, Alpha, the post has an "Amanda Marcotte" tag. All anyone needs to do is click on it.
I stand by everything I've written. Why not click on the tag and figure it out?
"Even though Althouse, Reynolds and the rest are ready to lynch the guy, I believe in old fashioned presumed innocence, rejected by both the right and the left in this case."
What? Link to what I wrote that supports that statement.
The reason for the current post is -- among other things -- the willingness of these women to send a man to prison for bad sex. It's a consistent theme on this blog that there is a difference between bad behavior and what the law should punish as crime. (An example of that is what I wrote about incest recently.)
I am like, soooo tired of having to read the crap that "The Crack Emcee" writes, I could puke.
It's a consistent theme on this blog that there is a difference between bad behavior and what the law should punish as crime. (An example of that is what I wrote about incest recently.)
Because if your own father warps your mind in such a way that you'll sleep with him, something that no society has ever accepted at any time in history, that's just bad sex?
No, I think not.
Please.
Come on.
Someone out there did Amanda Marcotte?
You kid, right?
Please.
I think rape is way more violent than, like, getting slapped. If a gal's sleeping and a guy sticks his unwrapped dick in her and spews bodily fluids into her that she didn't consent to, he's exposing her to potentially lethal diseases. Just because she didn't get a bruise from it, that doesn't make the assault any less dangerous.
My goodness what an unattractive pair of "females"(?) I'm giving substantial benefit of the doubt to the person on the left.
Why do they talk sing song?
Honestly, if her mother had opted for an abortion the world would be a better place.
I rebuke that statement.
That's a shitty thing to say about anyone.
Even libtards.
Michelle Dulak wrote:
I don't know. Did you promise your partner that you would use one, and then (oops) forget? And are you Swedish?
I'm wondering, if that's rape,then what about all the times women have said they've been on the pill only to wind up pregnant because in fact they lied, or punched a hole in the condom to make the guy a daddy. When we add up rape stats are we including those as rapes?
Tcacik said "and, and when you're having sex with somebody who you don't know very well...really, really messed up...stuff happens"
What is she, a valley girl? And Marcotte isn't much better. Good grief, we take these people seriously? They take THEMSELVES seriously?
Marcotte looks like a black-haired, less pretty Justin Bieber.
Althouse wrote, "I have been in the presence of feminists who would jump on you, quite harshly, if you said there was some sexuality involved. No, it was 100% violence. You were a heretic if you didn't accept that doctrine. I would challenge Maureen Tkacik with the proposition that if you don't think it's violence, then you shouldn't call it rape."
That would be logical, wouldn't it? That's why they won't go there.
I just saw "Girl With the Dragon Tattoo." There's a scene where Lisbeth visits Mikael in jail. It looks like a college dorm. In fact it took me a second to realize he was in jail. He has a computer in his room and everything.
BTW, that's a weird movie. It's "Dirty Harry" for liberals.
TJ Sawyer - to your point... who can take anyone seriously who uses "like" as every part of speech?
And like Swedish prison it's so like awesome because like everyone can like enjoy their like life.
Reason number 39029 why I don't want to date anyone younger than 35.
I was just thinking about the inane blathering about how sweet Swedish prison might be. I then thought - hmm, given the troubles in Malmo, where police are not even allowed to enter certain Mohammedan neighborhoods, I wonder just how wonderful the worst prison in Sweden is.
Wikipedia helped me out: "Immigrants are overrepresented in Sweden's crime statistics. During the period 1997–2001, 25% of the almost 1,520,000 offences were committed by people born overseas, while almost 20% were committed by Swedish-born people with a foreign background. Those from North Africa and the Middle East were overrepresented."
I wonder how wonderful it is in Swedish prisons for white women of distant Christian background as I'm sure these two women are.
c3 said...
"Rape is going the way of racist;
A once powerful word slowly drained of any meaning."
Exactly, well said.
has anyone also noticed that both wymyn are kinda butt-ugly, and therefore probably hate all men?
In Swedish prisons are inmates convicted of rape allowed conjugal visits? What if the complaintant is their wife?....If anyone other than OJ Simpson had been convicted of the crime for which he was convicted, I would say that it was a travesty of justice. It shouldn't be a guiding or universal principle, but sometimes you should let the punishment fit the criminal and not the crime.
Hey I never saw a photo of Mandy before.
She has a Blossom thing going on.
Maybe she can get a gig on the "Big Bang Theory."
Cause I don't think the Silky Pony is gonna be running anytime soon.
Just sayn'
Then if Amanda wakes up with me inside her she is going to let me finish because it isn't 'rape-rape'.
Crack Emcee said:
I stopped the one gang rape attempt on me...
And then goes on to say that it happened on a Navy vessel.
I call bullshit.
I spent 7-1/2 years on active duty in the Navy (67-74)then spent 24 years teaching navy enlisted and officers from E-2 to O-6 at a satellite university campus on a Naval Station.
I suppose that homosexual rape could happen in the Navy. It seems pretty unlikely, though. Especially aboard ship.
In all that time I was in and closely associated with the navy I heard lots of stories. I never even heard a rumor about homosexual (man on man) rape. I heard about all sorts of other bad behavior including murder and woman on woman rape with penetration by a dildo.
Never male on male.
Crack's anecdote sounds pretty unlikely to me.
Any of the other ex-swabbies here ever hear about male on male rape in the Navy?
John Henry
"Any of the other ex-swabbies here ever hear about male on male rape in the Navy?"
Well in the video something was going on with the Indian and the motorcylce guy but I don't know if it was consensual.
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