Mohamed Osman Mohamud, 19, was arrested at 5:40 p.m. Friday just after he dialed a cell phone that he thought would set off the blast but instead brought federal agents and police swooping down on him.ADDED: I already had the tag "Christmas bomber," so I used that again. There's a new spin on the "War on Christmas."
Yelling "Allahu Akbar!" — Arabic for "God is great!" — Mohamud tried to kick agents and police after he was taken into custody, according to prosecutors....
[T]he sting operation began in June after an undercover agent learned that Mohamud had been in regular e-mail contact with an "unindicted associate" in Pakistan's northwest, a frontier region where al-Qaida and Afghanistan's Taliban insurgents are strong....
November 27, 2010
"The threat was very real. Our investigation shows that Mohamud was absolutely committed to carrying out an attack on a very grand scale."
The NYT reports on an Oregon teenager's attempt to blow up fake explosives — given him by the FBI — that he thought were real. According to the FBI, he wanted to kill everyone who showed up for a Christmas tree lighting in Portland.
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121 comments:
Why's the FBI profiling Muslims? If we take the TSA as an example, shouldn't the FBI be investigating 3-year-old girls, 89-year old ladies, and Catholic nuns?
At least there is nothing in common between this individual and the others who have been involved in terrorist acts.
I'm guessing that wiretaps, human intelligence and profiling led to foiling this punk's plot. Here's hoping there's not a hyper-Lib Judge next in line on the schedule.
(Has Michael Bloomberg established Mohamud's views on health care reform yet?)
Damned Luther Leaguers.
(The Crypto Jew)
Those D@mned Lutherans again!
Why oh why do they hate us? I just wish there was some common thread, some characteristic that could allow us to get a "handle" on such violence...I'm baffled.
Nineteen years old. I'm not worried about people like Mohamed Osman Mohamud. He's so fucking stupid that he can't even make a bomb on his own. The FBI has to make a bomb for him. No, the real threat is that he's a Muslim and he's in this country. What worries me, is the hundreds of thousand of Muslims in this country who think just like this motherfucker. There are indications in this report that looks like the FBI is profiling. Let's step up the profiling and the scrutiny that is needed to stop these Islamic bombers.
An undercover agent met with him a month later in Portland, where they "discussed violent jihad," according to the court documents.
An example of the importance of good direct human intelligence, separate from all the great technological toys. And the way you get that intelligence is by having agents or contacts who are Muslims. Shows the folly of stereotyping all of them as the enemy.
A plot was foiled and that's a good thing.
Where did you get the information that the agent was Muslim, somefeller?
A very important American task in this fight is to set up fake AQ voices in the middle east to fish for, communicate with, and snare home grown terrorist wannabes.
Well played.
The plot was created by the FBI. This idiot couldn't, didn't have the knowedge, wasn't able to put a bomb together. The FBI gave him the bomb. He'll be convicted of having bad intentions.
Where did you get the information that the agent was Muslim, somefeller?
Either he was one or could pass for one if he could get Mohamud to convincingly "discuss violent jihad" with him. I doubt Mohamud would trust someone who didn't look and sound the part. Either way, you don't get to infiltrate these sorts of groups without having people on your team who can fit the part. Profiling is a necessary part of the arsenal of the FBI and other trained professionals in these matters, but there's a big difference between that and the generalized suspicion and loathing of most or all Muslims that one commonly hears from some quarters.
somefeller said...
I doubt Mohamud would trust someone who didn't look and sound the part
Would someone like him, who by the way is black, trust another black?
What group was infiltrated? Sounds to me the only one infiltrated in this case was this idiot.
Why's the FBI profiling Muslims?
The FBI would seem to be profiling IP addresses: after an undercover agent learned that Mohamud had been in regular e-mail contact with an "unindicted associate" ...in a frontier region where al-Qaida and Afghanistan's Taliban insurgents are strong.
shouldn't the FBI be investigating 3-year-old girls, 89-year old ladies, and Catholic nuns?
If any of these were exchanging emails (or texts, I suppose) with residents of an al-Qaida stronghold, I expect the FBI would.
I wonder how the Somali-born teenager found his way to Corvallis.
Kudos to the feds for preventing the loss of lives.
Thank you, FBI, for giving him a fake bomb and not a real one.
Wait a minute, what's his name again?
Oh, that's strange.
The plot was created by the FBI. This idiot couldn't, didn't have the knowedge, wasn't able to put a bomb together.
This is the second case of its type I've heard of. The idiot had the will and capacity to plant and set off a bomb; all he lacked was a connection to a bomb maker, which the FBI supplied. Should we let the guy wander freely until he actually hooks up with a competent bomb maker?
There is a basic element of journalism that has deliberately been removed from this story
Who: Mohamed Osman Mohamud
What:he tried blowing up a van
When: at 5:40 p.m. Friday
Where: PORTLAND, Ore
Why:?????
Some words have also been deliberately edited out of this article by Associated Press senior editors:
Muslim
Islam
Wahhabism
Mosque
Imam
Jihad
Martyr
Virgins
Qur An
Infidel
and Submission.
(The Crypto Jew)
Kudos to the feds for preventing the loss of lives.
Don't you mean for the arrest...this moron wasn't going to be killing anyone....At least previous atackers, successful or otherwise, planned their own op's and procured the materials.
This Shlmiel got contactd and made the FBI equivalent of the Nigerian E-mail Scam...
"Am writings to you with a great offer. I am Dr. Marous al-Jihadi and I am the sole controller of 6 barrels of liquid explosive that were the estate of my Nigerian Uncle, Tarig-al-Jihadi."
Wait a minute, what's his name again?
Tim McVeigh. The FBI should profile everyone who ever read the Turner Diaries or who has gone to a gun show.
Would someone like him, who by the way is black, trust another black?
I think the agent would have to be convincingly Muslim to get Mohamud's trust, and we have Muslim FBI agents who can do that. Once again, don't treat all of them as the enemy.
What group was infiltrated? Sounds to me the only one infiltrated in this case was this idiot.
I was speaking generically, namely about the ability to infiltrate Islamic fundamentalist / jihadist groups. And while this guy may not have been planning his plot with others, he was apparently in contact with like-minded people overseas, at the very least.
Those FBI agents are cold as ice.
Further, after the case of Joseph Andrew Stack, the FBI should profile software engineers, small businessmen, and anyone who's ever had trouble with the IRS.
You're right FLS. I'm sure it's just a coincidence. Stranger things happen.
Let me see, how many terrorist named Tim? How many named Mohamud? Yea, nothing there.
remember the feel good stories of the Somali refugees fleeing their ravaged homeland to the US? How ignorant were we to let in this jihadi scum? And we are still doing it! I have no sympathy for any muslims living in those hell holes of their own making, and we shouldn't be importing more into the US.
http://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/2008/09/10/how-did-we-get-so-many-somali-refugees-the-numbers-are-telling/
Queue Nelson Muntz.
(The Crypto Jew)
Tim McVeigh. The FBI should profile everyone who ever read the Turner Diaries or who has gone to a gun show.
Well IF you could show that 90% of the terrorism came from readers of this work I’d agree…gee it’s odd, I’m seeing a common thread, but seemingly it’s being ignored…Plus, HIS E-MAILS WERE READ!?!?! !!Oh NOES ELEVENTY!!!! FASCISM IS HERE! DOWN WITH BOOSH, oh wait it’s Obama well then it’s OK.
HIS E-MAILS WERE READ!?!?!
Address information is not private -- it can't be or no email would ever get anywhere.
Did you hear that Hitch just won his debate with Tony Blair on whether or not religion was good?
I repeat:
The atheist won.
The day after the "Ugly Betty" guy told us why he chopped up his mom with a sword (Hint: God was doing the talking,...)
Figure it out, people.
Mohamed Osman Mohamud
i think it is funny that his last name is just a variation on his first. how hard up for a name do you have to be that you give your kind your surname as his given name.
althauz althouse.
leon
"the FBI should profile software engineers, small businessmen, and anyone who's ever had trouble with the IRS."
See, where your thinking takes you? We should profile everybody...equally. That's where we are.
I wonder how the Somali-born teenager found his way to Corvallis.
Same as they find their way to Madison. He applied to Oregon State and was accepted.
Considering Mohamud was studying at an engineering school, I suspect he could have figured out how to make a bomb on his own.
Crack, I don't think you want to go into who's likely to murder who as it it relates to the religious versus the non religious. I'm not religious, but it's not exactly club of pacifists.
former law student wrote:Tim McVeigh.
Thank god you lefties have a white American's name you can toss out to contradict the scores or hundreds of muslim names of terrorists, right?
Cuz if you can find just one white American who committed a terrorist act then I guess we should have no reason to look askance at muslims committing terrorism against us, even though 99.9% of the terrorist acts committed against us for the last forty years has been by muslims.
Lefties are happy to trot out statistics and probabilities to try to scare us into trillion-dollar changes to prevent "global warming", demonizing those who question the evidence as "deniers", but when the terrorism committed against us is unquestionably committed 99% of the time by muslims, suddenly the existence of one outlier (Tim McVeigh) means we should not consider muslims to be the problem.
Is it that threatening to your worldview to concede that this really is a problem with muslims, and not with white Americans?
Mustn't notice any patterns.
He's just another guy. Coulda been anyone.
Tim McVeigh! Tim McVeigh! Tim McVeigh.
Mustn't notice any patterns.
Repeat as needed.
He applied to Oregon State and was accepted.
So a bunch of multi-culti zealots and mush-headed Academics granted a Somali-born Muslim student entry into their State school. That doesn't prove the kid is even literate.
HIS E-MAILS WERE READ!?!?!
Address information is not private -- it can't be or no email would ever get anywhere.
Wow. Amazingly similar to the program instituted by teh eveeel Boooosh in attempting to track down terrorists.
Tracking the emails and phone traffic without actually reading or wire tapping (listening). You people went ape shit over the idea and accused the President of all kinds of crimes.
Seems to be OK now though doesn't it?
Hmmmmm .....gee I wonder what changed?
Considering Mohamud was studying at an engineering school, I suspect he could have figured out how to make a bomb on his own.
lol You don't know many engineering students, I see
"Amazingly similar to the program instituted by teh eveeel Boooosh ..."
Yes, and Barack Obama has ordered the confiscation - without any due process mind you - of internet domain names and websites they claim assist in the distribution of copyrighted material.
No trial first. Just blanket confiscation.
Bush didn't do that.
Barack Obama is the worst president since George W. Bush.
I was making gun powder bombs when I was 13 years old. I didn't have to go to engineering school to figure it out, either.
So a bunch of multi-culti zealots and mush-headed Academics
Yeah that describes the typical Engineering and Physical Science faculty. If you're going to find conservatives and libertarians anywhere on campus, that's where they'll be.
See, where your thinking takes you? We should profile everybody...equally. That's where we are.
Given a world in which
1. Not all Muslims are terrorists.
2. Not all terrorists are Muslims.
what else can we do?
Why was it necessary for the Feds to give this nut a fake bomb before they could arrest him? Sounds like the wanted a big, splashy media event before taking him, rather than quietly busting him for conspiracy.
As others have mentioned, how they found him sounds like the kind of stuff the Gray Lady disapproved of and exposed when Dubya was in. Of course, if it makes The Zero look good, they're all for it.
PS Anybody want to bet this nut walks?
what else can we do?
I suspect we can avoid body searches on toddlers and really old people.
Tracking the emails and phone traffic without actually reading or wire tapping (listening). You people went ape shit over the idea and accused the President of all kinds of crimes.
Seems to be OK now though doesn't it?
It was ok back in 1979. Damn that Supreme Court! Smith v. Maryland, 442 U.S. 735, 744 (1979).
I wish we had a defense attorney who would comment on this. Or any attorney for that matter. Something like entrapment seems to have happened. Had the FBI not contacted him, and then given him a bomb, what would this Muslim have done without the direct involvment of federal authorities?
FLS, I see college students of all purported disciplines show up at my wife's State University in dire need of remedial education, which they get. Roughly half are foreign-born/raised. And I'm not talking about English classes, I mean basic crap they should've known by eighth grade. More than a few list one of the hard sciences as their prospective Major.
Lacking a transcript, I'll presume that the village over in Somalia that raised Mohamed wasn't so into K-8 excellence.
There - more evidence that profiling would NEVER work.
Jeez.
Remember this oldie but goody.
Why was it necessary for the Feds to give this nut a fake bomb before they could arrest him? Sounds like the wanted a big, splashy media event before taking him, rather than quietly busting him for conspiracy.
Conspiracy to do what? Attend a treelighting ceremony?
Here, Muhamud took every step necessary to set off a bomb that would have killed dozens of people. Entrapment would be the only counterargument his defense attorneys would have.
It was ok back in 1979. Damn that Supreme Court! Smith v. Maryland, 442 U.S. 735, 744 (1979)
Yes, I know. It still didn't stop you people from going ape shit and screaming Booshhitler at the top of your shrill little lungs did it?
Why use the truth when spreading lies is so much more fun.
Yes, and Barack Obama has ordered the confiscation - without any due process mind you - of internet domain names and websites they claim assist in the distribution of copyrighted material.
Foot in the door to total control and shutting down of the internet. The internet is the thing that has enabled the "PEOPLE". We can communicate and spread information freely. The Obama Progressive Socialist agenda is threatened by this and it MUST be STOPPED according to their view.
college students of all purported disciplines show up at my wife's State University in dire need of remedial education
Is this your state's official land grant university (like Wisconsin-Madison, UIUC, or Michigan State or Ohio State) or is it a Directional State (basically a teachers' college that grew)?
A recent Washington Monthly profiled Chicago State University, a former teachers' college, which accepts so many people who can't do college-level work that the magazine views it as a sort of scam.
"I wish we had a defense attorney who would comment on this. Or any attorney for that matter. Something like entrapment seems to have happened. Had the FBI not contacted him, and then given him a bomb, what would this Muslim have done without the direct involvment of federal authorities?"
The idea to do the bombing appears to have originated in his mind, not the FBIs, thus there is no entrapment. Not that it won't be argued by his defense attorneys.
It still didn't stop you people
Which club is it I belong to?
"Why was it necessary for the Feds to give this nut a fake bomb before they could arrest him?"
Knowing the FBI (and I do), I am sure they didn't mind a "big splash" of headlines, but frankly, the best case possible would be to get the guy to plant the fake bomb and try to detonate it. Anything short of that and his defense attorneys would have been saying he was just joking the whole time or something.
To the tower!
Yelling "Allahu Akbar!" — Arabic for "God is great!" — Mohamud tried to ...
Who in New York, in the world for that matter, does not know what that means?
Then everybody jumped out and yelled "Happy Birthday!" -- an expression that acknowledges the date of an individual's birth --
Yelling "Allahu Akbar!" — Arabic for "God is great!" — Mohamud tried to ...
Who in New York, in the world for that matter, does not know what that means?
Exactly. Probably came from the Arabic version of Romper Room. Who could forget the grace they said every day:
"God is great. God is good. Let us thank him for our food. Amen."
Entrapment is a very difficult defense to successfully mount. It's not just a government offer or sting. You have to show the defendant was not predisposed toward the activity and/or the government conduct was such that it overhwhelmed him. Like the case where the Feds inundated a guy with offer for kiddie porn despite no evidence the guy was predisposed toward kiddie porn. Very simplistic explanation.
Here the guy showed a predisposition toward terror activity.
Replace terror activity with narcotics sales and drugs with bomb and it is a run of the mill FBI case. They have info a guy wants to get a large amount of drugs to sell and they use an undercover agent to set up a deal.
The entrapment statutes as written only apply to left wing plots. There have been some attempts in recent times to extend these rights to Islamic conspirators, but these attempts have not yet borne fruit. Right wing nut cases are, of course, specifically excluded from the entrapment statutes.
You have to show the defendant was not predisposed toward the activity and/or the government conduct was such that it overhwhelmed him.
"I was reluctant at first, but the more they talked the cooler the thought of the spatters of blood and gore everywhere and of body parts launched high into the air became."
Our investigation shows that Mohamud was absolutely committed to carrying out an attack on a very grand scale.
Well, 5 drums of explosives pretty much define how "grand" your attack is going to be. If the FBI told him there was a small nuclear device, or chemical/biological agents in one of the drums, would the press release say "an attack on an apocalyptic scale"?
This demonstration, created by the FBI using this dumber-than-dirt kid, is perfect from a timing point of view (Christmas season), and also from the convenience factor of creating a needed boost in public opinion for Homeland Security.
Notwithstading his emails to jihadists, if he was already being monitored did Mohamud ever pose a real threat that he needed to be taken out this way? Or was this just theater for our holiday enjoyment? (Entrapment would certainly be one of the defense arguments when he goes to trial.)
"You may recall that loony Portland officials several years ago threatened to pull out of the Joint Terrorism Task Force under the Bush administration and refused to cooperate with federal efforts to conduct voluntary interviews of of local Muslims in order to uncover terrorist plots."
H/T Malkin.
Skip my last sentence on entrapment. This was discussed above by those more knowledgeable about this defense strategy.
former law student said...
Why was it necessary for the Feds to give this nut a fake bomb before they could arrest him? Sounds like the wanted a big, splashy media event before taking him, rather than quietly busting him for conspiracy.
Conspiracy to do what? Attend a treelighting ceremony?
Here, Muhamud took every step necessary to set off a bomb that would have killed dozens of people. Entrapment would be the only counterargument his defense attorneys would have.
Well, there's this from the article, "The FBI affidavit that outlined the investigation alleges that Mohamud planned the attack for months, at one point mailing bomb components to FBI operatives, whom he believed were assembling the device.
It said Mohamud was warned several times about the seriousness of his plan, that women and children could be killed, and that he could back out, but he told agents: 'Since I was 15 I thought about all this;' and 'It's gonna be a fireworks show ... a spectacular show.'".
Sounds like conspiracy to blow up something to me.
You seem awfully eager to make the Feds look good, and that's not usually your position. As I said above, as long as it makes The Zero look good, that's different...
PS As NewHam and DBQ have noted, the confiscation of URLs by ICE is a bigger issue and fls seems cool with that. Why not Justice, if it's a copyright thing? Even the Demos aren't going for that.
Obviously, Portland caused this incident by calling the "holiday" tree a "Christmas" tree.
There's a picture of him at the link:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fbi_thwarts_terrorist_bombing.html
Was his mother white??
I think it's time to curtail immigration from Muslim countries. It's not like they have anything to offer us that we can't get from immigrants from less benighted quarters of the world. There are plenty of Muslim countries in the world; they should stay there.
Re: Quayle @ 10:48
I never saw that commercial. Short and hilarious. Did Volkswagon corporation actually make such a thing. Big businesses usually don't have the balls to go anti-P.C. like that. Great commercial.
I suppose it offends some, but why? As a white guy, I'd find it just as hilarious if it showed some white supremacist doing something similar that made sense factually like this does. I don't relate to evil bastards just because we might share ethnicity, race, or religion. I don't see why some Muslims do.
former law student said...
Why's the FBI profiling Muslims?
The FBI would seem to be profiling IP addresses: after an undercover agent learned that Mohamud had been in regular e-mail contact with an "unindicted associate" ...
Let's give some credit to the NSA. The FBI can't spell IP.
Likely we had the Paki IP address on the list, we logged who it interacted with and then used Jihadi Spear Phishing.
As for the entrapment part,the suspect supplied part of the bomb and was allowed to exit the conspiracy, but doubled down.
FLS, you were sounding reasonable up thread but got a bit soft later...
So total is the hold of PC that not a single significant politician of either party has called for a ban on immigration from the Islamic world. Why? Because to do so would be political death and relegation to the ranks of "haters."
Clearly, we need scanners not just in airports, but all public areas, like Christmas tree lighting ceremonies in downtown Portland.
And what a horrible young man. I'd bet that many Portland residents tried to include him in their prayers to Gaia, indie band lyrics and hipster ironism.
FLS, it's an ex-Teacher's College, current HBCU, in North Carolinny. I would hope standards are higher at OSU, but I have no reason to think they are. Particularly with P.C. charity cases like the dipshit who just tried to kill scores of Americans. Those kids often jump to the head of the line.
We need to lock these people up and either deport them or only let them go if they pass a screening test that is very strict. I am not sure if any muslim can be loyal to this country at this point. It seems their religion always comes first.
Would it have changed anything if Mohamud was told it was going to be a "Festivus tree lighting" instead?
New "Hussein" Ham said...
Who: Mohamed Osman Mohamud
What:he tried blowing up a van
When: at 5:40 p.m. Friday
Where: PORTLAND, Ore
Why:?????
Some words have also been deliberately edited out of this article by Associated Press senior editors:
Muslim
Islam.....
You didn't get the Memo? It was those Paki Sikhs that turned him into a bad boy...
Chad said...
It seems their religion always comes first.
Christians havethat "render unto Caesar" clause in their contracts. Mohamed got smart and swapped that out for "Allah Akbar"
Seriously though, it Sort of brings into question whether you can count on a devout Muslim when it comes to this Oath:
I (insert name), having been appointed a (insert rank) in the U.S. Army under the conditions indicated in this document, do accept such appointment and do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter, so help me God.
Anyone notice that he is a naturalized US citizen?
That seems odd to me. He is 19. How long has he been in the US?
I'd like to see some more info on this.
This may cause some problems law enforcement wise. He can't be locked up indefinitely like a non-citizen can. He can't be deported.
He can't even have his citizenship revoked.
Maybe we need to look into the naturalization process while we are about it.
John R Henry
Well, in defense of Muslims, many Christians and Jews I know put religion first as well.
This young man put violence, threats of violence and ideological identification with certain Muslims first (and there certainly is a lot of sentiment in the Middle East for this kind of thinking). Morally he's very much in the wrong (he would likely disagree), and while led, he likely very much violated our laws.
We're still dancing around the incompatibility questions too:
Are democracies, post-Enlightenment freedoms (including speech) and is Western Civ more broadly...incompatible with Islam?
I don't know. But we've got direct military engagement, business interests, diplomacy, security, immigration, education, trade, learning...etc...on the table.
Obviously, the lefty logic of diversity isn't going to cut it, especially not in a case like this and will lead to a whole host of other problems.
An unquestioned nationalism and blind support of military engagement without understanding the longer game isn't helpful either.
I really hope one of these clowns isn't successful, partly because our ridiculous homeland apparatus is one of our current responses to this threat.
I know it's hateful and makes me look bad, but I have to admit: I don't like this Mohamud guy very much. He's just not cool. ~ Wise Liberal
John said...
He can't even have his citizenship revoked.
The INS may seek denaturalization if the applicant made a false oral statement under oath (regardless of whether the testimony is material) with the subjective intent of obtaining immigration benefits. Alternatively, the INS may seek denaturalization if the applicant procured naturalization by concealment or willful misrepresentation of a material fact. In either case, the INS must prove its complaint by clear, unequivocal, and convincing evidence.
Of course it's entrapment. It's a deliberate attempt to profile young Muslim males who only want to peacefully blow up a tree lighting ceremony.
It's hilarious that the left-wing blog talkingpointsmemo.com has a story about the muslim bomber but comments are disabled for that story....while for their story about the old white man who threatened the President, comments ARE enabled...
Funny how the Left is torn between narratives:
1) not a serious attack, terrorist was incompetent, blah blah
2) we need to grope more grandmas to catch people like him.
Opening of the story in The Oregonian, to which madAsHell linked:
"The FBI thwarted an attempted terrorist bombing in Portland's Pioneer Courthouse Square before the city's annual tree-lighting Friday night, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office in Oregon. A Corvallis man . . ."
First sentence at The New York Times:
"Federal agents in a sting operation arrested a Somali-born teenager just as he tried blowing up a van he believed was loaded with explosives at a crowded Christmas tree lighting ceremony in Portland, authorities said."
* * * * * *
1. "[T]hwarted" versus "in a sting operation arrested".
2. "Attempted terrorist bombing" versus "he tried blowing up a van he believed was loaded with explosives".
3. "[T]eenager" versus "A Corvalis man".
It's Groundhog Day with bombs and Muslims. Pretending it's always a coincidence, or perpetually crying about a "tiny number of them", is neither smart nor productive. We need grown-ups in charge. Or at least some people willing to learn.
Anyone notice that he is a naturalized US citizen?
That seems odd to me. He is 19. How long has he been in the US?
I'd like to see some more info on this.
This may cause some problems law enforcement wise. He can't be locked up indefinitely like a non-citizen can. He can't be deported.
He can't even have his citizenship revoked.
Maybe we need to look into the naturalization process while we are about it.
John R Henry
1. The US can denaturalize aliens that took citizenship who lied in the process about their intent, or generally proved themselves undesirables afterwards.
2. All through the 20s and 30s the US was deporting Jewish radicals for subversive activities to Germany, Poland - as well as substantial numbers of Italians with ties to subversive organizations and/or organized crime. Of course, stripping a Jew of his citizenship and packing him off to Weimar Germany because he wanted to set off bombs proved not ideal for the Jewish communists long-term health...but he wasn't America's problem anymore.
3. THe ideal thing to do would be to strip Mohammed Osman Mahmoud of citizenship..then helo him and any "convicted in a court of august civilian US law" Somali crooks, terrorists, pirates - in anywhere in Somalia. Even if it is 500 miles into some other Somali Muslim tribes territory where non-tribal Muslims are killed if no infidels are around.
Fen said...
Funny how the Left is torn between narratives:
1) not a serious attack, terrorist was incompetent, blah blah
2) we need to grope more grandmas to catch
Add 3 more hoary Leftist narratives:
1. But what about Timothy McVeigh??
2. It is American policy that creates Jihad! (and blame America for Muslims killing Russians, Indians, African Christians too!)
3. The VAST MAJORITY of Muslims are noble, good, and peaceful and we need 100 million more in America --- because Diversity is Strength!
"If the FBI told him there was a small nuclear device, or chemical/biological agents in one of the drums, would the press release say "an attack on an apocalyptic scale"?"
You missed the best part of this story, apparently.
If the Muslim terrorist had actually set off a nuclear device in Oregon, the maximum penalty under the law is ONLY life in prison.
By the way Ann, the NY Times did not report this story as you claim.
This piece of shit propaganda was reported by the Associated Press and carries that company's byline.
The NY Times (and hundreds of other news outlets) merely distributed this article without question.
New Ham - if a nuke went off in Portland I can guarantee you the death penalty will be back with a vengeance on the next ballot and will pass 80-20. If the Oregan SCOTUS struck it down, then the people will impeach them for crimes against the people. It will be pitchfork, torches, tar & feather time. All bets are off.
I am very glad he was caught - yes, it does appear that the FBI had to do a lot of the heavy lifting in his bomb plot, but if it weren't for them, he might have eventually found a genuine competent bomb-maker to help him out, so kudos to the FBI.
At to McVeigh - why is he always cited as the epitome of white terrorism? Why not William Ayers, who is still a free man, while McVeigh has at least been removed from the human race. I mean, the only difference is that the high school-educated ex-enlisted man was a far more competent bomber than the future Professor of Education.
And I am sure we all recall the "profiling" of angry white males that went on under the Clinton Admin - how he and his mouthpieces used McVeigh to tar anyone of pallor who questioned the magnificent Federal Democrat machine? How about that "vast, right-wing conspiracy" that Ms. Clinton prattled on about. Hell, that crap hung around long enough to impeded the search of the Beltway Sniper, one Mr. Johan Alan Mohammad.
The man is every bit an adult as Bristol Palin. So call him that. 19 years old is of legal age. Adult. Why would any credible press outlet call him a teenager?
I mean, the only difference is that the high school-educated ex-enlisted man was a far more competent bomber than the future Professor of Education.
How does Ayers stack up against McVeigh?
McVeigh's blast
killed 168 people,
including 19 children under the age of 6,
injured more than 680 people,
destroyed or damaged 324 buildings,
destroyed or burned 86 cars, and shattered glass in 258 nearby buildings,
adding up to a total of $652 million worth of property damage.
New "Dumbshit" Ham says:If the Muslim terrorist had actually set off a nuclear device in Oregon, the maximum penalty under the law is ONLY life in prison.
Wrong. The Federal government has death penalty statutes also, including with respect to murder by use of weapons of mass destruction. So regardless of what the law is in Oregon, the death penalty would be on the table in such a circumstance.
"At least there is nothing in common between this individual and the others who have been involved in terrorist acts."
Huh? You mean he's a Somali Islamic terrorist as opposed to an Arab Islamic terrorist or a Paki Islamic terrorist?
William says: The entrapment statutes as written only apply to left wing plots. There have been some attempts in recent times to extend these rights to Islamic conspirators, but these attempts have not yet borne fruit. Right wing nut cases are, of course, specifically excluded from the entrapment statutes.
Wrong. The entrapment defense is available to defendants regardless of their ideology or religion. But I suspect you knew that already.
@former law student AKA apologist for Islamic terrorists
How does Ayers stack up against McVeigh?
McVeigh's blast
killed 168 people,
including 19 children under the age of 6,
injured more than 680 people,
destroyed or damaged 324 buildings,
destroyed or burned 86 cars, and shattered glass in 258 nearby buildings,
adding up to a total of $652 million worth of property damage.
You're so right, fls, and I knew Bill Ayers and his former girl friend Diana Oughton, who was among 4 killed making a bomb in Greenwich Village that AYERS HIMSELF DESIGNED!!! I'll bet Bill doesn't lose any sleep over Diana, whose a lot prettier than former law student Bernardine, whom I've also met.
And Ayers killed a cop while bombing a Fed building. No comparison, except McVeigh was at least competent in his terrorist proclivities and was motivated by the worst AG the US has ever had before Holder, swamp thing Reno, who killed about 70 Branch Dravidians at Waco. Ayers was provoked by whom again?
So absolutely every attack on American soil is directly analogous to the McVeigh attack? But absolutely none of the hundreds of attacks on Westerners by Muslims are at all connected to one another?
It's a blessing to the country that most of you are ensconced in the fairyland of lily-white, terror-free Wisconsin. Your naivete wouldn't last a single day in the real world.
making a bomb in Greenwich Village that AYERS HIMSELF DESIGNED that was intended to kill a couple of hundred Army enlisted troops and USO volunteers at the Ft Dix USO Club
fixed
I know that in my area of the south the FBI has been trying to entrap Methodists and Lutherans alike to bomb lighting events. Without success so far.
apologist for Islamic terrorists
What the fuck are you talking about?
Yes, *IF* the Somali bomber lied to the INS during naturalization process, the citizenship can be revoked. However, that might be hard to prove.
If he promised to obey all laws etc, is that a false statement? He could argue that he meant it at the time but changed his mind.
General misbehavior does not constitute grounds for revocation of citizenship, though it does constitute grounds for revocation of legal residency for non us citizens.
Cedarford mentioned some undesireable Jews who had their citizenship revoked. Perhaps some names or a link would be helpful?
I suspect that they were not US citizens.
John Henry
John - conspiracy to commit a terrorist attack is def grounds for revokation of citizenship. I mean this is a no-brainer.
"What the fuck are you talking about?"
You're certainly an apologist for domestic terrorists - such as Bill Ayers.
As anyone reviewing your comments can ascertain for themselves.
See, FLS, your comments indicate that you believe some terrorism is OK as long as the terrorist has the proper motive (i.e., any motive you yourself would agree with).
You think domestic terrorism is fine as long as it is advancing the liberal argument, and you think it's OK that your president is friends with a domestic terrorist and it's fairly plain for people to see that in your comments.
So you can understand why you're almost universally despised here.
You're no better than al Queda.
It isn't profiling to keep law enforcement eyes on young muslim men. It's trend analysis.
John said...
Yes, *IF* the Somali bomber lied to the INS during naturalization process, the citizenship can be revoked. However, that might be hard to prove.
The FBI has statements from this guy that he has intended his "violent Jihad" since 2005, if that predates his citizenship, that could support a reevocation.
"violent Jihad" his words. None of that intraspection Leftist misdirection...
New "Hussein" Ham said...
So you can understand why you're almost universally despised here.
I thought FLS was making sense in his posts thru 1000am.
Then at 1002, he reverted to norm :)
"violent Jihad" his words."
Jihad?
You will see no such words in the Associated Press report of this person's activities.
They've deliberately removed all references to why he wanted to bomb people, what jihad is, which mosque he attends, which form of Islam he worshiped, who his imam was, who his parents work for, how they got permission to come to this country, why they're raising terrorists, etc.
No effort to explain why he's trying to murder thousands of innocent people celebrating the birth of someone who is not Mohammed.
The Associated Press is not interested in the narrative of Muslim terrorism and refuses to report these facts.
Kill him.
I'm watching NBC talking about violent Jihad that he has wanted to undertake since "his early teens" and his "writing on Jihadist websites"
If we're going to profile terrorists, I still don't see how we can ignore the profile of the men who committed the second most destructive act of terrorism ever committed on US soil.
And "the epitome of white terrorism" should surely be the ones who were far and away the most destructive.
"If we're going to profile terrorists, I still don't see how we can ignore the profile of the men who committed the second most destructive act of terrorism ever committed on US soil."
If we're going to profile terrorists, I don't see how we can ignore the profile of the woman who burned to death more babies in a single act of terrorism against a church in the history of the United States.
Surely we should not allow Democrat Attorneys General to escape scrutiny.
former law student said...
If we're going to profile terrorists, I still don't see how we can ignore the profile of the men who committed the second most destructive act of terrorism ever committed on US soil.
that's just crap. Yes, McVey killed a fairly large number, but that was a pretty rare event. McVey would claim that Clinton/Reno killed more children at Waco than he did at OKC. But yes, he was a killer and deserved to die.
But the numbers of Muslim events or the death toll of 20 times OKC, combined with declarations of war against the US by some non-insignificant portion of a bilion people would seem to deserve the vast majority of resources.
how about we allocate based on deaths in the last 20 years. say 97% Muslims and 3% white Christian Vets with a grudge?
Or on events, and go 99% Muslims and 1% white Christian Vets with a grudge?
whatever, just as long as we allocate based on a reasonable algorithm
The only good thing about McVeigh is that he appears to have been a one-off. Yes, there have been other "militia" types who seem to court confrontation with Federal LEOs, but McVeigh's actions, and the death toll, especially the children, produced nothing but revulsion, even among those on the paranoid fringe who would seem to be his natural constituency. It is fair to say that McVeigh and Nichols are universally despised across the political spectrum.
But the thing that kills me is that Ayers plotted to bomb a dance filled with young soldiers, their dates and various staff and volunteers. Had he succeeded, he could have killed hundreds of young Americans. And yet, he can still appear in polite society - and you can still be his friend (and maybe ghostwriting client) and be elected elected President. I know that the FBI cut corners, and that's why Ayers is free to walk the streets - I accept that such is the price of maintaining our constitutional freedoms - but I cannot accept that he is not shunned and despised by every decent person. Instead, he is embraced by the left (Your left FLS), and at least tolerated by mainstream liberals, and is made a professor and is the subject of fawning magazine articles.
It is as if Eric Robert Rudolph was made a professor at SMU and given a seat on the board of the Koch foundation. Yes, exactly.
Oh, and i"Chicago gave William Ayers its Citizen of the Year award in 1997 for his work on an education project."
So fuck them all and their next midget mayor too.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/07/obama.ayers/?iref=hpmostpop
I still don't see how we can ignore the profile of the men who [bombed OK City]
We don't.
However, the profile of those men doesn't involve suicide missions in aircraft. That's a Muslim thing.
The left loves McVeigh because he is the only notable case of an arguably right of center mass murderer in a long long time. We never hear a peep about Stalin or Mao, not a sound. But McVeigh appears in every conceivable paragraph by apologists for Islamic terrorism trying desperately to promote equivalency. But, hey, I am suggesting we swap profiling every person named Tim or Timothy for every person named Muhamed or Mohamed.
Well, I'm starting to think that Turbo Tax Timmie qualifies as an economic terrorist.
The Indonesians figured that out decades ago.
fls,
McVeigh was one man, committing a terrorist act years ago. What we are facing now, and have been for quite a while, is a pattern of men from one religion continually trying to commit terrorism. Of course, you know what, you're just trying to be funny. Right?
Coming soon: the mainstream media's diligent investigation into the mysterious motives of a person named Mohamed Mohamud to commit murderous acts against Americans.
Allahu Akbar, indeed.
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