... the lefties who try to read him are humor deaf. (Or they pretend to be for propaganda purposes.)
For reference, here's the full text of the monologue excerpted at that link.
১৭ সেপ্টেম্বর, ২০০৯
এতে সদস্যতা:
মন্তব্যগুলি পোস্ট করুন (Atom)
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২০৭টি মন্তব্য:
207 এর 1 – থেকে 200 আরও নতুন» সবচেয়ে নতুন»Every once in a while, Rush just wants to make sure they are listening and he can still tweak them at will.
Sometimes I swear he has a special remote control that allows him to dial up the left's righteous indignation at will, like the volume on a TV, while simultaneously muting their sense of parody and sarcasm.
What a scream. Homosexuality inborn, therefore ok, so racism born, also ok. He makes one hilarious link after another. It's a field day.
Loved it.
Moreover, he's right about everything. And the part of Obama that called Kanye West a jackass was the racist part. Obama should be ashamed of his white half.
Rush is a master at using the left's deluded logic and coming up with a fool's conclusion. He thereby exposes the sophistry of anti-white mythology or socialist mythology or CO2 Crisis mythology being furiously recycled as the left's last hope to keep some of the independent voters he used to win his election.The "sincere" announcers then expose Rush for Believing in the examples of bad thinking Rush is using as examples of the left's bad thinking.
Black kids are beating up white kids in Obama's America. The humor in this bit is where?
Megan McArdle fell for it too, and she's not particularly lefty.
Duh!!!
I quite enjoy when he exposes the absurdity using absurdity. He turns their own words and logic against them. *applause*
This conservative sometimes gets mad at the things Rush Limbaugh says and the way he says them - I am not a "fan or dittohead" and I frankly lost interest in him about 5 years ago with his occasional tirades when he disagreed with then President Bush.
But this time he's got it right. The evil ability to throw the charge without proof is destroying more of this nation's social fabric today than actual, real racism does. It is high time that when you or I are accused of racism that we respond with this:
Prove it.
The idiocy and downright evil of playing the "racism card" today is is highlighted by such Rushisms as:
If homosexuality being inborn is what makes it acceptable, why does racism being inborn not make racism acceptable?
Inborn. What stupidity!
Prove it.
Yes, Limbaugh wasn't REALLY saying those black kids beating up on the white kid was a result of Obama being president, he was just kidding! What a riot that Limbaugh! HAHAHAHA! And the stupid libs always fall for it! HAHAHAHA!
Oh, and another thing -
What Rush is doing here to be funny - exposing the lack of logic and reason of the left in these pet theories - is the funny version of the same tenuous grasp on real life correlations that Rachel Maddow does every night and Frank Rich does every week: "A" is what I say it is because "R" happened and was seen by a friend of "B", so therefore, "A" is evil.
Tone junkie,
Congratulations! You got it right.
Rush has a way of communicating on several levels at once. On the surface, he sounds bombastic and outrageous. (e.g. "Talent on loan from Godddddd!!!; "Taking on liberals with half my brain behind my back"). But there is a real sense of humor underneath the bombastic facade. Pretty soon you realize he isn't taking himself as seriously as his bitter enemies are.
You put your kids on a school bus, you expect safety but in Obama's America the white kids now get beat up with the black kids cheering
I'm sorry, but I fail to understand how that is not repulsive.
I thought it was the left that tried to characterize repulsive as parody.
I remember Rush from (I think) 1988 or so -- the Sacramento Bee has some frothing-at-the-mouth columnist absolutely ENRAGED that he was on the air and saying those FRIGHTFUL RACIST THINGS. The guy in the paper was so over-the-top I thought "I have to listen to this guy; he really gets under the lib's skin."
And I found him pretty much hilarious, especially when Clinton came into power. The skits, the parodies, the songs -- just wonderful to watch the libs go completely absolutely gobsmackingly crazy. It was as if he discovered the libs political G-spot.
Pretty soon you realize he isn't taking himself as seriously as his bitter enemies are.
Rush understands that his primary job is to entertain, the left has not and will never figure that out because they take themselves way too seriously.
"The school bus filled with mostly black students beat up a white student a couple of times with all the black students cheering. Of course the white student on the bus deserved the beating. He was born a racist."
Not sure how a person could have enough of a brain to say, walk or breathe and not see this as obvious satire.
alefu -- I'll have a lager!
It was as if he discovered the libs political G-spot.
This thread is over, you win! LMAO!
For once, I did catch his show, and this is the one I heard. I must have missed though the part where he suggested that maybe the reason that Obama has not helped his relatives back in Africa is that his white half is racist.
There is a lot of abject poverty over there, and his family there apparently believed that he would help them out having gotten this new job This is apparently how things work in that part of Africa. But they are still waiting.
And I found him pretty much hilarious, especially when Clinton came into power. The skits, the parodies, the songs -- just wonderful to watch the libs go completely absolutely gobsmackingly crazy. It was as if he discovered the libs political G-spot.
Unfortunately, we probably won't be hearing the "I'm a philanderer" song any more. Sung with a Boston accent to the tune of "Wanderer". One of my favorites.
This is apparently how things work in that part of Africa. But they are still waiting.
Maybe if he goes to Africa for a family reunion he can give them some presidential cuff links.
Chase,
High five it up high, bro! Limbaugh tweaks them libbies around at his will and laughs all the way to the bank! If I ever meet him I swear I might just have to sneak him one him full on the mouth, but only in a purely heterosexual, manly way of course! No tongue! But hey, he's looking good gettin' all buff! He's the king!
tone_deaf, you forgot to add
And YOU, a Law Professor!
or
And YOU, an Obama-voter!
Unfortunately, we probably won't be hearing the "I'm a philanderer" song any
I'm sure it's in the Rush 24/7 archives.
Worth it for the show replays, say on some Sunday when you need some audio background.
I liked "Shalala" myself, Clapton's acoustic Layla version, as far as his song parodies go.
My favorite parody was to the tune of "A Whole New World", the theme song from Aladdin.
Sung by the Bill Clinton sound-alike.
"We can build a new world,
"all we need is your money....
miller,
What's up with dissin' my name like that, yo? I'm a dyed-in-the-wool conservative playing a liberal's distorted version of a conservative doing a lame parody! Don't you get it!? I know you probably do, you're probably working on even higher level of sarcasm than I am! It's all over these libtards' heads anyway, am I right?! LOL
I'm projecting 300+ comments
wv: ursuppe (the original suppe as opposed to the last suppe)
What Rush is doing here to be funny - exposing the lack of logic and reason of the left in these pet theories -.
So explain the bit. I realize I'm just a puppet, and Limbaugh is the puppeteer, pulling the strings as I haplessly flail away at his every master move. And I'm just a frothing at the mouth leftist just looking to paint every white conservative I see as racist. But fucking aye. What is funny about this bit? What's the humor? What's the angle? What's funny about the joke about segregated busing?
wv ampit. That gross sweaty nether region - similar to an armpit - between Limbaugh's ass and ball sack that wouldn't see the light of day if it were not for massive amounts of Viagra and $100 bills.
Megan McArdle fell for it too, and she's not particularly lefty.
I was a bit surprised at that. And disappointed. I don't think she actually read the transcript before she vented her indignation, instead relying on a filtered account.
I predict the trolls arive in the next 15 minutes.
"Obama should be ashamed of his white half."
That simple statement shows the foolishness of the foundation all of this racism crap is balanced on.
I no longer care if some white guy dislikes the President because he 1/2 some artificial classification. Do we really think nobody voted against McCain because he's white? I heard many prominent blacks admit it on TV
If that's his reason, so what. He's entitled to it. people dislike each other for all kinds of unfair reasons. If he wants to vote race that's his right too.
Now people even have to prove that their dissent is based on government approved acceptable reasons. Good direction we're going here.
Garage - It's no Randi Rhodes bit, suggesting that the President should be shot, but it's all he's got.
Rialby, I think the trolls have been demoralized by the disastrous performance of the Prez lately.
When will he come out and say "I denounce ACORN. These are not the nuts I knew."
Garage, your unbalanced anger about it combined with the irony is the funny part. You are the funny part. That's why we love ya.
I'm willing to believe that Rush was aiming at funny, but he missed it and hit creepy instead. Not much leeway for error when you're dealing with that subject matter.
garage,
why all the hate, brother?
Here is the second comment about Limbaugh on that Media Matters site.
It's hilarious - until you keep reading and realize that the person writing it has no life apart from what he/she reads on Media Matters. How sad! With the Network News and the Major Newspapers all trying to paint conservative activists as mindless sheep, your heart has to break at the lemming-like tendencies that pours forth from commenters such as this who traded in their ability to think rationally for themselves for the thick-headedness of the left:
This is AWFUL!...What a scumbag!...Kids have been beating each other up on schoolbuses FOREVER.
God almighty, can even the stupid not see through this guy?...He's trying to start a race war, get Obama killed, or both.
Seriously..I'm a new poster here, but I've been a Media Matters subscriber for awhile and worried about Right Wing Hate Speech since it started around the mid to late eighties, which was right AFTER the Fairness Doctrine was thrown out.
Can we at the Media Matters Community on SOMETHING to either stop, or at the very least, mitigate this..This has to stop..Hate Radio is exactly what preceeded Hitler's Genocide, and it's exactly what preceeded the War in the Balkans and it is EXACTLY what preceeded the mass murders in Rwanda.
Surely, this man has NOW come to point where he is dangerous..Surely he's exceeded his First Amendment protections....In a finacially insecure country with easy access to guns and a history of racism, this is surely tantamount to "crying 'Fire' in a theatre.
Something MUST be done..Some lever of responsibility must be pulled...Bring back the Fairness Doctrine or something like it...Please...Before we see another tragedy.
I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on What to DO to restrain this irresponsible hate speech.
When they don't get it - and especially if they don't like it - they want to suppress it.
How sad. How sad.
garage,
why all the hate, brother?.
Not at all! Life is good. Forget Media Matters. What is the actual riff on something in this bit? I'm trying to understand. I love off color humor.
Well try this one:
If homosexuality being inborn is what makes it acceptable, why does racism being inborn not make racism acceptable? I'm sorry -- I mean, this is the way my mind works. But apparently now we don't choose racism, we just are racists. We are born that way. We don't choose it. So shouldn't it be acceptable, excuse -- this is according to the way the left thinks about things.
Now c'mon - that's hilarious!
@miller @ 7:59
The ACORN sanitizing is in process.
Scroll down.
wv gynxjkho
chinese ho?
Megan McArdle fell for it too, and she's not particularly lefty.
She does admit, in a later post, to not have listened to him in awhile and to never have understood his humor.
Hey, I've got a funny one:
Althouse is a big fat liar.
HAHAHAHA.
It's a JOKE. Gawd, you conservatives can't take a joke.
"Megan McArdle fell for it too, and she's not particularly lefty."
Yes, she linked - of all people - Andrew Sullivan. Adding: "No offense, but Limbaugh's listeners are not known for their ability to appreciate maybe-sort-of-satire."
Her commenter's laid waste to her (over 140 comments).
Quite embarassing.
Should teach her not to link Andrew Sullivan.
I had never been to the Media Matters site before:
That place is hysterical!
I actually couldn't stop laughing as I checked out several of their articles. Parsing and twisting like a pretzel to bend words and phrases into things that aren't really there.
Seriously - I am going to have a ball with that place! I'm amazed I haven't seen it before. And,like the comment I posted earlier above, the people that comment there - well, that's the sad part.
Do they really believe the stuff that's there is truthful?
Please!
Joseph,
What you said could be funny. You need context. Satire. Parody.
You don't understand context, satire, parody?
Is that why people on the left self-describe themselves as less happy in their lives than moderates and conservatives? Does that mean that the left-leaning jokes on say, "Saturday Night Live" aren't really funny to lefties - just more satisfaction of "sticking it to the man"? Gosh, I think that "30 Rock" is the funniest show on TV, but it is never going to stop making fun of conservatives. I still enjoy it.
You really got nuthin', don't you?
I love Limbaugh, heard this segment live and thought he missed the mark.
Perhaps, he relied too much on a Time Mag article which I had not read.
The guy cracks me up, and that was a particularly good one. Today, just the way he said the name "S.E. Cup", was a scream. Liberals are completely tone deaf.
I remember one day, when I was living in Oakland, California, I was listening to him and couldn't pull myself away from the radio, though I had to go to work. I stuck it out as long as I could and then said, "fuck it" and switched him off, thinking I'm probably the only black person in Oakland listening to him, much less having a problem turning him off. But, once I got outside, there Rush was again - being blasted, loudly, by a black guy in a Comcast van. Our eyes met and, pointing, I said "You too?" and he said "Yep!" and we laughed. Since then, I've met others as well.
Anyway, anybody who thinks Rush is racist is an idiot:
He's got more black listeners than liberals want to admit.
Maybe if he goes to Africa for a family reunion he can give them some presidential cuff links.
Or a DVD box set.
I'm willing to believe that Rush was aiming at funny, but he missed it and hit creepy instead. Not much leeway for error when you're dealing with that subject matter.
I think that you are in a minority here, but that is fine. I can remember when I was living in Austin while GWB was still governor there. And I would be out with my girlfriend, brother, and sister-in-law there. All liberal. The stock joke that got them going was something to the effect of how dumb "shrub" was. The sort of stuff Molly Ivins was (in)famous for. I didn't get the humor, they did.
But that is the point really, that calling wolf so many times about racism is losing its sting. If any criticism of President Obama or any other (liberal) Black is racism, then the term has lost its onus.
And, I really do think that is what is going on right now. if criticizing Obama or his policies is racist, then being a racist really isn't a bad thing any more. After all, we were told by many on the left, including, if I remember right, Saint Hillary, that protest is the highest form of patriotism.
He's got more black listeners than liberals want to admit.
Then again, if his only black listeners were you and the dude in the Comcast van your statement would still be true.
garage mahal said...
Black kids are beating up white kids in Obama's America. The humor in this bit is where?
This is why you and your kind are humorless dicks and frankly dickless.
The leftist nuts arrive, strangely enough, when Instapundit links.
So there are a lot of flaming leftists reading him. Which is good.
Let me add that I do believe that there is racism still in this country, from all races here. And, I don't like it, and try very hard to prevent it.
And that is why I think that what Obama and the left are doing right now is a bad thing. They are cheapening the onus immensely. When we have a Georgia cracker telling us we are all racists who won't buy into the radical policies of Obama and the Democrats in power, then I think things have gone way too far. They have squandered the moral capital that generations spent accumulating in the area of racial equality.
The leftist nuts arrive, strangely enough, when Instapundit link.
Which is interesting, given how much Glenn is reviled by the left.
garage mahal said...
What Rush is doing here to be funny - exposing the lack of logic and reason of the left in these pet theories -.
So explain the bit. I realize I'm just a puppet, and Limbaugh is the puppeteer, pulling the strings as I haplessly flail away at his every master move. And I'm just a frothing at the mouth leftist just looking to paint every white conservative I see as racist. But fucking aye. What is funny about this bit? What's the humor? What's the angle? What's funny about the joke about segregated busing?
Oh, I get it, this is you trying to deflate the Rush-centric nature of this blog post. By pretending to be the straight man in this little comedy, you are trying to de-power the inherent nature of a conservative using your very faux indignation to rub your nose into the shit you crap on the rest of us. Well played. You are still a fucking moron, but well played.
wv ampit. That gross sweaty nether region - similar to an armpit - between Limbaugh's ass and ball sack that wouldn't see the light of day if it were not for massive amounts of Viagra and $100 bills.
Hey look everyone, it's another Rush Limbaugh drugs, viagra, racism smear. Man, GM, you must have had to dust that little one cause I haven't seen that from your kind in a while. Oh, the nether region from the ballsack to the beginning of the crack is called The Taint. I guess DTL never told you about it while you were down there huh? He must have gotten all excited since Titus was in the corner waiting his turn.
Yes, she linked - of all people - Andrew Sullivan. Adding: "No offense, but Limbaugh's listeners are not known for their ability to appreciate maybe-sort-of-satire."
Yeah, I like Megan McArdle's blog, but her elitist upper-class NYC/DC background was embarrassingly on display in that statement. Howard Stern gets the same sort of thing -- people assume that because most of their humor is lowbrow, their audience must be stupid. Like smart people can't laugh at that stuff too.
Jeez, folks, it's Media Matters.
No one takes them seriously anymore. Everyone knows that they are Soros-paid hacks.
Don't you libs realize that earlier this year they published two slams at Althouse, because she dared critique the President. They are paid by a special interest to attack Republicans.
Screw them. I hope they are condemned to listen to an eternity of "The Best of Rush" in Hell.
Black kids are beating up white kids in Obama's America. The humor in this bit is where?
That the white kids deserve it because white people are, we are told, inherently racist.
There, that wasn't so hard to figure out. You don't have to think a joke is funny to identify where the humor was supposed to be.
miller said...
Rialby, I think the trolls have been demoralized by the disastrous performance of the Prez lately.
When will he come out and say "I denounce ACORN. These are not the nuts I knew."
That's because his nut doesn't fall that far from the ACORN tree. Remember, he was their legal counsel at one time, so he had to have known this nonsense was going on and probably ran cover for them on multitudes of occasions. Hell, he did it during the campaign.
Limbaugh parodies himself and the left doesn't get it.
Ann,
Thanks for slowing down the crazy 24/7 news/opinion cycle and allow us all a bit of time to adsorb the raw feed.
e.g. Rush broadcast his polemic on the 15th - just two days ago.
Since then McArdle has has had two posts (!), Sully, Dreher and who knows who else have jumped all jumped all over it.
I believe that your approach - a bit of reflection before leaping into the abyss - is the prudent course.
Thanks
Uh oh. The leftists are mad at Limbaugh and castigating his schtick.
He's in trouble now. He's had it this time. Look for his ratings and influence to plummet.
I believe there is a direct correlation between a sweeping sense of humor and IQ. Only the humorless are prone to dictatorships. Funny guy, that Stalin.
The left has become a revealed religion, complete with an oracle. Has anyone seen the "fringe" media poking fun at their prophet? Scary.
The fall of this construct will be "a five spiral."
In the Utah desert, midwinter, only one station, and it begins to wail
Then one night in desperation
A young man steals a car
He drives it hard but he don't go far
In the Yugo.
...another little baby liberal is born
In the Yugo...
Still my favorite. It edged out
My Ding-a-Ling, as sung by Joycelyn Elders, Clinton's Surgeon General, who was known for her great hands.
Is it even possible for Limbaugh to say anything his fans would consider racist, sexist, homophobic, or xenophobic?
No. They agree with most such sentiments anyway up to a point, beyond which they then conveniently consider humor/parody/playacting. No accountability. Ever.
Limbaugh is one of the most ruthless self promoters in American life today. I say this with admiration.
He is also the only one, right or left, that can dial up a riff that will make you listen react on a daily basis. (I don't listen to Rush on a weekly basis, let alone daily, but he has the talent nevertheless.) What pisses the left off is that they have no one with his talent. They never will, because only relentless scolds rise to visibility in lefty media.
That the white kids deserve it because white people are, we are told, inherently racist.
You're being told that by the likes of Rush Limbaugh. So I guess that is funny. But Limbaugh is the wide open ass end of the conservative movement, I hope he keeps sticking around. It's seems to be working wonders on that minority outreach program in this ever increasing ethnically diverse voting demographic.
Just admit, his humor is entirely based on making racist and outlandish jokes and watching for the fallout that brings attention and ratings. It's all radio and revenue, and he plays his followers for the category 5 suckers they are.
Is it even possible for Limbaugh to say anything his fans would consider racist, sexist, homophobic, or xenophobic?
Sure. For example, if back in 2007 he had referred to Barack Obama as "a typical black person", I'd have thought that was a racist remark. You shouldn't lump the members of a racial group together like that.
Of course, if he said it today I'd assume he was just playing off of our President's comment about "typical white people". :)
Joseph N. Welch: "Hey, I've got a funny one:
Althouse is a big fat liar.
HAHAHAHA."
Chase: "Joseph,
What you said could be funny. You need context. Satire. Parody.
You don't understand context, satire, parody?
...
You really got nuthin', don't you?"
Hey Chase, I think he sent one sailing right over your head.
Remember Al Franken's book, Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot? That's the context. I think Joseph is making fun of that as a biting example of sophisticated liberal humor. Or really, exactly the opposite. If a liberal thinks that is hilariously funny then the odds of them understanding Rush's humor is slim indeed. It was a double reverse liberal bashing and you lost sight of the ball I think.
Especially note the long pause (white space) and then this:
"It's a JOKE. Gawd, you conservatives can't take a joke."
That's how liberals always explain their meanness. There's no actual humor, but they try to convince you it's a joke. Joseph has the formula down pat. Maybe he should intern with Rush.
Ann,
It is just so sad seeing what has happened to you.
I first became aware of you around the time that you debated Jonah Goldberg on BhTV, and during the related Liberty Fund dustup. I was strongly on your side and really admired you for what I thought was your principled opposition to racism and a legal framework that made institutional racism possible. It has been a slow but steady proess of disillusionment watching as you have turned into a Dittohead, a huge, unapologetic fan of Rush Limbaugh, one of the nastiest and most divisive people in America today.
It's simply beyond comprehension that you would provide that link to Limbaugh's monologue thinking it would exonerate him of the charge of racism. Quite the contrary: it proves the point. He's a racial grievence monger and he knows, as you surely must, that one way to help the Republican Party get back in power is by exploiting issues of race to conservative advantage. It's beyond revolting, and what's disturbing is the excuse-making and support you provide along the way.
What have we learned today?
Our beloved hostess is no tone-deaf lefty.
Limbaugh's whiny rants are meant to be humorous.
Considering the husband of my wife's good friend believed Colbert to be absolutely on the level for years, I suspect some righties are tone-deaf as well.
You're being told that by the likes of Rush Limbaugh. So I guess that is funny.
Rush was referring to this Newsweek article, as you'd know if you'd read the transcript before opening your big yap.
It's seems to be working wonders on that minority outreach program in this ever increasing ethnically diverse voting demographic.
I'm not worried about that. Increasing diversity is more of a threat to Democrats than to Republicans, simply because Democrats rely on racial grievance for their political support to a vastly greater degree than Republicans do. The more diverse we become, the less anyone gives a shit about race. The less people give a shit about race, the better race-blind politics do. :)
Revenant,
You don't believe your hypothetical Limbaugh resembles the real Limbaugh though, right? The real Limbaugh wouldn't actually stumble like that in your view, right? So it's a rather empty example. Try a real-life Limbaugh remark to convince me of your non-puppetness.
to jack
yes, it is so sad that people who disagree with you are so morally deficient. how can you stand it? it must make you very sad.
Meanwhile, here are a couple examples of one site - and their thousands of readers - not getting Rush's jokes:
thinkprogress.org/2009/09/17/limbaugh-segregated-busing
thinkprogress.org/2009/09/16/limbaugh-hate-crimes
That blog is run by the Center for American Progress, which is closely linked to the BHO admin. And, through various means they were able to get smears and incorrect stories out and about before the election. Despite that, the great majority of people had never heard of them or CAP before the election and I'm going to guess that most bloggers have no real clue about CAP. Maybe conducting some "outreach" (i.e., signing up and leaving comments at their entries and showing how their bloggers are clueless) might be a good idea.
For a tangible example, I pointed out at the second link above that one of the quotes she was relying on was bogus. It'd be great if others could have done that for me, since I'm not even a Rush fan.
"one of the nastiest and most divisive people in America today."
Watch some Olberman and then get back to me on this. Rush ain't even close. Want to know how MSNBC could start beating the shit out of Fox News in the ratings? Fire Olberman and replace him with Rush. Not only would the IQ of both the host and the viewers for that slot dramatically increase, but the nastiness and divisiveness would decrease for both as well. Remember, MSNBC was the network that actually gave a show to Michael Savage. Surely Rush would be less of a stretch for them.
Just read another misread of Limbaugh which made a big deal of his saying we need segregated buses.
He is mocking mocking mocking the left.
Jack said: I was strongly on your side and really admired you
Seriously dude? Now Althouse laughs at Rush and Jon Stewart, and because Rush, in your deluded world, is one of the most awful people around, she shouldn't laugh at his funny jokes?
A lot of people think they know what Rush is, based on what they have heard from liberals about Rush. Your local paper, your morning deej, your local news station, and of course, liberal blogs and soros funded outfitsl ike media matters all speak in unison that Rush is extremely racist, extremely angry, extremely mean. But he's not. He's light. He's pretty funny. He's sarcastic.
Listen to his program. It's more popular than ten Fox News Channels or thirty MSNBCs for a reason. It may not be your cup of tea, but it's pretty easy to see that Rush's shtick is to laugh about how ridiculous the liberal's argument structures can be if you change the premises. 'Racist at birth = excusable' is a great example.
if you're not willing to listen to Rush, that's your choice... miss out on a huge part of world culture today because you're too weak to challenge your partisan leanings. But don't condemn anyone just because they aren't as weak as you. Althouse, an Obama voter, a law professor, a Madison resident, and a Rush fan, is clearly comfortable with ideas from all over.
Why isn't everyone?
"Just admit, his humor is entirely based on making racist and outlandish jokes and watching for the fallout that brings attention and ratings."
No, I can't just admit that, since it's not true. What is true, though, is that his humor (okay, one part of his humor) is entirely based on tweaking liberal's priggish sense of self-righteousness and hypocrisy. Most of the more "controversial" things he says that make it into the mainstream media are direct parodies of absolutely ridiculous things mainstream media and pundits have said without being called on it by anyone. He basically repeats them and suddenly everyone (on the liberal end) is all up in arms that anyone could say such a thing. It's all about the intent. Racists make jokes about black people (or other races). Rush makes jokes about liberals/progressives, the Democrats and the media who aid and abet them. Last I checked, the media was not a race. And neither are the Democrats, although I think I can safely say that they are, as a group, jackasses.
Should teach her not to link Andrew Sullivan.
McArdle and Sullivan are both blogging for The Atlantic. I'd be surprised if she wasn't encouraged to do so by the people who sign her paychecks.
And no disrespect to Althouse, but ADMIRED? Why? Because of this blog? It's fun to read, but admiration? People are getting killed defending freedom, curing diseases, saving oil covered ducks, and you're admiring a blogger... until they support Rush Limbaugh? WTF?
I guess the defect is with me, though. I mean, love and marriage blossomed in the comment section, so I clearly am missing something. Must be my crappy old monitor.
Try a real-life Limbaugh remark to convince me of your non-puppetness.
Nice try.
Here's another idea -- rather than pretending that the claim "Limbaugh makes racist remarks all the time" has already been proven, why not cite some examples of Limbaugh making racist remarks? THEN you can complain that his fans (of which I am not one) don't acknowledge them.
Shorter Jack:
YOU! A LAW PROFESSOR!
Revenant said...
Sure. For example, if back in 2007 he had referred to Barack Obama as "a typical black person", I'd have thought that was a racist remark. You shouldn't lump the members of a racial group together like that.
Of course, if he said it today I'd assume he was just playing off of our President's comment about "typical white people". :)
That statement would be bigoted not racist. Just saying.
tone_junkie: Is it even possible for Limbaugh to say anything his fans would consider racist, sexist, homophobic, or xenophobic?
I'm gay and I loved his remarks on homosexuality.
Rush has shown himself comfortable enough with these issues that he is able to joke about them intelligently. I think his opponents, who do not have this level of sophistication, should be spending time looking for bigotry in their own opinions, rather than his.
That Newsweek article is a hoot. The only way I could tell it wasn't an Onion parody of white liberal racial anxiety is because it's so damn long.
Kids as young as 6 months judge others based on skin color. What's a parent to do?
How disturbing to think that you may have inadvertently created a little racist! And if the kid who has your genes is a racist, what does that make you?
No doubt Newsweek has some good deprogramming tip for rooting out those improper thoughts from their bigoted little minds.
I further love how you are either against Limbaugh in leftist land, or you are for him.
Ah, the super-smart party of subtlety and nuance.
You guys are super-smart, right? I mean, smarter than little old me and that highly influential multimillionaire Limbaugh put together. Right?
I haven't heard him say this on his show recently, but back when he started, he called his shtick "demonstrating absurdity by being absurd". He's still doing it, and the libs still bite at the hook - EVERY time.
Does no one remember his "endorsement" of Bill Clinton in 1992? In the first hour of the show, Limbaugh endorsed Clinton, and said that Bill had admitted his early mistakes and grown beyond them, so they weren't relevant any longer. He laid it on as thickly as only Rush Limbaugh could.
IN the second and third hours of the show, Rush's callers were 100% horrified - and bewildered when Rush said that that comment had been an "early mistake", long ago, and that it didn't matter any longer.
He's still doing it; weaving together a thread of inconsistencies for the Libs and then pulling it apart.
I'm not a Rush fan, he compete's in my area with someone I like better, but I've listened enough to understand that Rush's overall point is that we cannot get past racism until we can laugh at our own high minded stiffness and fear of facing it regardless of who does it. The satire is that we cannot say what Rush said (which is just what's implied by the left's rhetoric daily).
The reason this is offensive to the many on left and funny to many on the right is that the right truly wants to get past racism, the left needs it as a weapon. Don't make fun of my sword, it dulls the blade.
Jack, this is why you don't get Ann anymore. She's open-minded and moving herself to post-racial, you just don't want to go there. It's disarming.
Revenant
The Newsweek article had nothing to do with "Obama's America", where white kids get beat up by blacks kids because they deserve it, which you'd have known if you read that article. You got suckered by Limbaugh inferring the Newsweek piece suggested Obama said whites are genetically predisposed to racism. Limbaugh is a race hustler Al Sharpton could only dream of being. He wouldn't have a show without it.
Jack said...
Ann,
It is just so sad seeing what has happened to you.
I first became aware of you around the time that you debated Jonah Goldberg on BhTV, and during the related Liberty Fund dustup. I was strongly on your side and really admired you for what I thought was your principled opposition to racism and a legal framework that made institutional racism possible. It has been a slow but steady proess of disillusionment watching as you have turned into a Dittohead, a huge, unapologetic fan of Rush Limbaugh, one of the nastiest and most divisive people in America today.
It's simply beyond comprehension that you would provide that link to Limbaugh's monologue thinking it would exonerate him of the charge of racism. Quite the contrary: it proves the point. He's a racial grievence monger and he knows, as you surely must, that one way to help the Republican Party get back in power is by exploiting issues of race to conservative advantage. It's beyond revolting, and what's disturbing is the excuse-making and support you provide along the way.
Is this a love letter? Because I think Meade beat you to it. Sorry fella.
Limbaugh is a race hustler Al Sharpton could only dream of being.
Ha ha, Steven Pagones would beg to differ.
I mean seriously, do you know anything about the Rev Al's history? Are you really that ill-informed?
"You got suckered by Limbaugh inferring the Newsweek piece suggested Obama said whites are genetically predisposed to racism."
Seriously, are you that lacking in nuance? It's become quite obvious over the past year and a half that Newsweek is one of the worst mainstream purveyors of Obama hero worship toadyism. The article doesn't have to say a word about Obama. Rush doesn't have to infer anything. The fact that it's an article in Newsweek means it's an article about Obamaland, or at least the perception of the editors at Newsweek of what Obamaland is. Again, I'll repeat what I said above, Rush's main target is the media. That's who he makes fun of. That's what he's doing here.
Are we supposed to take Rush's critics seriously?
Why do they constantly link to a left-wing site that has an EXTRACT of Limbaugh's words - when they can link to Rush Limbaugh.com and get the full text.
They have no credibility.
You put your kids on a school bus, you expect safety but in Obama's America the white kids now get beat up with the black kids cheering
I'm sorry, but I fail to understand how that is not repulsive.
It is repulsive for black kids to beat up white kids, and yet I sense that this is what what you find repulsive.
"Yes, Limbaugh wasn't REALLY saying those black kids beating up on the white kid was a result of Obama being president, he was just kidding! What a riot that Limbaugh! HAHAHAHA! And the stupid libs always fall for it! HAHAHAHA!"
Now you're getting it. His point was that the left does not see a problem with this stuff: the beating, Professor Gates, Van Jones's ideology, etc. Where racism is clearly evident, but coming from the wrong direction, thus invisible. Obama didn't create this racism, he just approves of it. maybe you do too. It's Obama's America.
The Newsweek article had nothing to do with "Obama's America", where white kids get beat up by blacks kids because they deserve it
I didn't say it did. You know, the amusing thing about all this is that in one of the other posts here you're huffily complaining that people are taking offense at your jokes.
Let me walk you through this step by step.
(1): Newsweek says we're all inherently racist.
(2): Therefore, the kid on the bus was a white racist.
(3): So the black kids had every right to kick his ass.
Now you might say "wait, that makes no logical sense, because according to the Newsweek article the black kids are inherently racist too". Yes, garage. Congratulations on your apparently first-every exposure to the use of logical fallacies as a source of humor.
It's the national conversation about race that Bill Clinton wanted to have.
How exciting!
Revenant,
A simple listen to his show would tell you Rush has many black fans. His producer, Bo Snerdley, is black.
The racist charge just don't stick.
rcocean: Why do they constantly link to a left-wing site that has an EXTRACT of Limbaugh's words - when they can link to Rush Limbaugh.com and get the full text.
They probably have no idea it exists. I think a lot of them are afraid to listen to Rush for fear of being "brainwashed".
@ Jack
Where do you get off sucking up Althouse's bandwidth to lecture her about not living up to your expectation?
You're the guy who swills the hosts liquor while complaining that's it not up to your standard.
I suspect that Althouse doesn't give a flying fuck, I know I don't.
wv: cussess - a lady who swears like a sailor.
I realize I'm just a puppet, and Limbaugh is the puppeteer, pulling the strings as I haplessly flail away at his every master move. And I'm just a frothing at the mouth leftist just looking to paint every white conservative I see as racist.
You got that much right, Mr Ball Sack.
By the by, why is it that lefties feel this need to talk this? "Teabaggers" is another example. You all seem to have the emotional level of a sixteen year old in a juvenile detention center.
Now go back to bemoaning the way the right is lowering the tone of political debate in this country.
Congratulations on your apparently first-every exposure to the use of logical fallacies as a source of humor.
And this is one of his main weapons Garage. He takes liberal-supported fallacies, pushes them to an extreme, then rips them apart while mocking those who adhere to those fallacies but are totally blind to those fallacies.
If more people on the left had an ounce or two of self-awareness, and the ability to laugh at their own inconsistencies, then more of you would understand Rush.
He really is a master at what he does. One need not agree with his politics to appreciate his talent for using the left's arguments (logical or not) against itself.
If the left had anyone with half of Limbaugh's talent, then Air America would have been a successful business venture.
More from the Newsweek article.
If "black pride" is good for African-American children, where does that leave white children? It's horrifying to imagine kids being "proud to be white."
The horror! The horror!
It's the national conversation about race that Bill Clinton wanted to have.
How exciting!
LOL!
@Jack 9:47 PM
You misrepresent the Goldberg-Althouse dust up over "Racism" Here's the link
Not much in common with Rush's satire.
>> "This is apparently how things work in that part of Africa. But they are still waiting."
> "Maybe if he goes to Africa for a family reunion he can give them some presidential cuff links."
Or perhaps a solar-powered iPod filled with his most rib-splittingly funny standup improv.
Is it horrifying to be proud to be white? I mean, I guess I don't get credit for the things other white dudes did. It's pretty illogical. But having self esteem... being happy with what you are, is a nice thing to have.
What's black pride? If it's awareness that you're as good as anyone else, then that's cool. Is it anger at the 'man'? Paranoia that everyone is racist? I honestly don't know what it is other than a fist pump opportunity. That isn't horrifying as much as it's pathetic. Be proud of yourself, not your skin.
She does admit, in a later post, to not have listened to him in awhile and to never have understood his humor.
She lacks what we call in my family the “sarcasm gene”. Some people just don’t get that kind of humor, and that’s fine. It’s subjective. But it’s completely ridiculous to take some of these statements at face value, without acknowledging that they are an attempt at humor, whether it is the kind of humor you understand or not. I think the point earlier about not taking yourself so seriously is key. I don’t understand how anybody could hear “talent on loan from god” and think that is a serious statement of fact. He goes into the show from breaks by saying that and the thing about half his brain tied behind his back “just to make it fair” to set the tone of the show. Anyone with an ear for that should get it.
Is it even possible for Limbaugh to say anything his fans would consider racist, sexist, homophobic, or xenophobic?
I don’t know if I would consider myself a “fan” exactly, I just get a kick out of how crazy Rush drives people, but I will say he said something one time about women not watching football or something. I’m from the south, where many, many women like football (some more than their husbands, my grandmother is way more invested in sports than my grandfather). So I kind of thought that was idiotic and my brother agreed and basically we think Rush doesn’t really get women.
Rush Limbaugh's commentary was the most disgustingly offensive thing I've heard or seen since I read that Swift fellow's proposal that poor people should sell their babies as food!
Sandra Day O'Connor got a lot of grief for the dicta she stuck in a recent opinion about how the Court expects racial preferences to be gone in a couple decades. However, it's one of the few intelligent things a person with power has done with regard to the race issues we have in this country. Racial preferences can only be just if they expire (and I don't know that they can be just even then).
In that same vein, black pride made sense in a period when second-class citizenship was a de facto situation and when one of the many elements that was needed to get rid of that was a sense of self-worth and a self-aware sense of power and equality. As those times have substantially dissipated, the idea of black pride needs its own dissipation.
Sadly, like preferences, we seem stuck with it, thanks in large part to a guilt-ridden group of white leftists...in positions of power.
rcocean,
That blog post, the golberg/althouse dustup, was an great entry to read. Really cool.
...basically we think Rush doesn’t really get women
Probably not often enough, or we'd be hearing more from them for sure.
@Simon Kenton 9:23
Love the Yugo song.
Miss those Yugos!
seven machos,
I think the period of racial pride is ending. I think Barack Obama has forced it. I roll my eyes at the idea that blacks can't make it in our society. The 'racist' cries at every white person critical of Obama is already very old... and we're going to be hearing it for 20 years.
Sure, it won't go away completely, but it's going to go away largely, I suspect. It really isn't audacious to hope... that's what people are figuring out.
Rush Limbaugh's commentary was the most disgustingly offensive thing I've heard or seen since I read that Swift fellow's proposal that poor people should sell their babies as food!
Hee!
I think the period of racial pride is ending. I think Barack Obama has forced it. I roll my eyes at the idea that blacks can't make it in our society. The 'racist' cries at every white person critical of Obama is already very old... and we're going to be hearing it for 20 years.
Slow Joe -- Isn't this paragraph irreconcilable on its face. The first part and the second part cannot both be true. Which is it?
Not a flame. At all. Just an observation.
Rush Limbaugh should be taken off the air for all of the hatred and racial invective he spews on a daily basis. While I believe in the First Amendement and freedom of speech, Rush should not be allowed to have his hatred disseminated on a daily basis. Congres should appoint a committee to investigate his show and then have him banned from the airwaves. The First Amendment was not intended to allow his ilk unfettered freedom of speech filled with racist, sexist, homophobic, Islamaphobic, and heteronormative rants that have no basis in fact.
In law school, that was pretty much the liberal view of Limbaugh, espoused by the same people who would say another day that they were First Amendment absolutists like Hugo Black. (But never knew of course, Black was a Klansman)
the right truly wants to get past racism
A boy beat up another boy on a bus. THE END
Why do they constantly link to a left-wing site that has an EXTRACT of Limbaugh's words - when they can link to Rush Limbaugh.com and get the full text.
The quality of mercy is not strained. It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest: It blesseth him that gives and him that takes. Tis mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes The throned monarch better than his crown. His scepter shows the force of temporal power, The attribute to awe and majesty, Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings. But mercy is above this sceptered sway; It is enthroned in the hearts of kings; It is an attribute of God himself; And earthly power doth then show like God's When mercy seasons justice.
seven,
I guess I don't understand your objection.
The period of BBSs has ended and now we have the internet. But someone out there is still using the BBS.
The period of flat earth science has ended, but someone out there thinks the earth is flat.
the period of racial pride and paranoia is ending, and some people will still cling to it forever.
FLS, re 'THE END' I hope you're right, but I don't know about that. It's foolish for you to say race wasn't a factor, and foolish for me to say it was. It's sad to consider if the races had been reversed how different many would feel about it.
I'll take that as "UNCLE"!
I never really understood pride. I fall for it myself sometimes, but I do resist the illogic of it.
White pride / Black pride? Proud of what? You had nothing to do with it. Your race is entirely accidental. I'm proud of my country, but not for being an American, rather for there being an America. It's an unlikely miracle created by men , I hope like me, through sacrifice, effort and imagination. I'm proud of the fact that we are capable of it and did it, but I feel Mongolians should be proud of America too. I'm proud of ancient Greece and Rome, Honduras, Iraq and Israel, at the moment, for what has been accomplished despite great obstacles. It does not make me better than anyone, but still gives me a spirit of pride when any of us rise above our weaknesses.
If that makes me a human jingoist, so be it.
It's horrifying to imagine kids being "proud to be white."
In a way it is. Because being proud to be "white" is almost always a white supremacist thing. Who's proud to be white? That's weird.
White people aren't into their whiteness.
But go to a Scottish festival and you'll find a whole lot of really proud people with, often loose, Scottish descent. Or proud to be Irish--or proud to be not, depending on the narrative they choose. Italian pride. Polish pride. Oktoberfest celebrates the Germans, not White Day for white folks.
Europe has been far too fractious for far too long for people to have any kind of unified pride about their skin color.
Are we supposed to take Rush's critics seriously?
Nah, not really. But if it's a slow night shooting barrelfish is better 'n nothing.
But go to a Scottish festival and you'll find a whole lot of really proud people with, often loose, Scottish descent.
Well that's fine. But do they have to prove what they don't wear under their kilt?
Revenant,
Here's another idea -- rather than pretending that the claim "Limbaugh makes racist remarks all the time" has already been proven, why not cite some examples of Limbaugh making racist remarks? THEN you can complain that his fans (of which I am not one) don't acknowledge them.
I never said Limbaugh makes racist remarks all the time. I swear you conservatives are nothing without your straw men. I simply insinuated he's made at least a few and that none of his fans consider them racist or would consider anything he ever said to be racist.
Okay, I had to look up these examples because I don't give a rat's ass about Limbaugh, but how about his "Barack the Magic Negro" song for starters? Or how about his saying the reason Survivor cancelled its idea of dividing teams up by ethnicity/race after only a couple shows must've been because the white team was winning? Or how about the example heading this thread? You said the funny part is...
That the white kids deserve it because white people are, we are told, inherently racist.
Really? That's what the Newsweek article said, that white people are inherently racist? Nobody else is? And does that mean all white people, so any random white person deserves getting beat up thanks to what you perceive this "liberal" Newsweek article to have said? Or maybe that's how you think blacks and liberals would take it -- as confirmation. Again with the straw men. You see, to find that funny, you have to believe in a warped view of blacks and liberals.
You said you're not a Limbaugh fan, but I don't see why not. Maybe you can tell me.
P.S. If you claim Limbaugh was using levels of irony I'm not aware of, see my earlier posts in this thread. I addressed that already.
Tone, This is just another case of you not getting it, dude. "Barak the Magic Negro was a creation of a liberal writer for the L.A Times. Rush was satirizing the exact same double standard again. I don't know about the other examples, but knowing Rush I would expect the same thing is there.
In fact, the challenge that none of his fans would find anything he said offensive may be because he only says offensive things when he's mimicking liberals with their own words or ideas.
I just think self-awareness in this area is beyond the liberal mind.
When they lose Jay Leno, have they lost the country?
And you Rush critics keep going to other Rush critics to get your facts. You gotta get out of the echo chamber to get the rest of the truth. The haters ain't gonna deal straight.
Tone,
I don't know you tell me. Did you even read the article?
"Shanklin got the idea for his controversial tune Barack the Magic Negro in March 2007 after reading a column titled Obama the Magic Negro by David Ehrenstein in the Los Angeles Times. In the column, Ehrenstein compared Barack Obama to the 'Magical Negro', a stereotypical shallow black movie character who exists only to aid the white protagonist." ~ wikipedia
If you don't want to know the truth, just stop looking when you find what you already think you know.
It cool, we all make mistakes. Now you know.
I am reminded of this quote, from a Monty Python sketch:
"He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. "
It's horrifying to imagine kids being "proud to be white."
Well, yes, it is. The weird thing is that most people DON'T think it is horrifying that someone might be "proud to be black". Pride in one's genetics deeply stupid.
I never said Limbaugh makes racist remarks all the time. I swear you conservatives are nothing without your straw men.
I'm not a conservative, but ok...
I simply insinuated he's made at least a few
Ok, so let's hear them.
Okay, I had to look up these examples because I don't give a rat's ass about Limbaugh, but how about his "Barack the Magic Negro" song for starters?
A take-off on "Obama the Magic Negro by leftist LA Times writer and Obama supporter David Ehrenstein; the song explicitly refers to the article in question. Next?
Or how about his saying the reason Survivor cancelled its idea of dividing teams up by ethnicity/race after only a couple shows must've been because the white team was winning?
Assuming that his theory was wrong (and you haven't offered any evidence that it was), why would that be evidence of racism? It isn't like that sort of thing never happens in real life.
Or how about the example heading this thread?
So after two examples you're forced to fall back on something that has already been shown to obviously not be racist? Says it all, really.
Really? That's what the Newsweek article said, that white people are inherently racist? Nobody else is?
I already discussed that issue, above. Limbaugh is playing on the fallacious reasoning the left normally applies to racism, where white racism is discouraged and anti-white racism is written into the law.
You said you're not a Limbaugh fan, but I don't see why not. Maybe you can tell me.
Rush Limbaugh is one of the billions of people on Earth, such as yourself, whom I do not find interesting enough to listen to for any length of time.
P.S. If you claim Limbaugh was using levels of irony I'm not aware of, see my earlier posts in this thread. I addressed that already.
Oddly enough, people don't consider "HAHAHAHA!" to be a valid rebuttal.
bagho20,
Okay, yes I deleted my last comment because I got it wrong. So point for you on "Barack the Magic Negro." But my gripe isn't about Limbaugh's politically incorrect remarks as much as it is about his deluded portrayal of liberals in general and the sickening devotion of his fans to him and his falsehoods along with his facts. You guys condescendingly say we're too unsophisticated to get his humor, that he's often poking fun at himself. Really? You sure he's not making fun of the caricature of conservatives liberals hold which you and your fellow conservatives *wink wink nudge nudge* know to be ridiculous and not really true? So who's he really making fun of ultimately? Himself or liberals? And you think we're too dumb to not notice these layers? I submit we're seeing at least one beyond you, amigo, if you expect us to buy this line of caca Althouse and the rest of you are trying to feed us in this thread and elsewhere. I refer you to my first few posts.
tone_junkie said...
bagho20,
Okay, yes I deleted my last comment because I got it wrong. So point for you on "Barack the Magic Negro." But my gripe isn't about Limbaugh's politically incorrect remarks as much as it is about his deluded portrayal of liberals in general and the sickening devotion of his fans to him and his falsehoods along with his facts. You guys condescendingly say we're too unsophisticated to get his humor, that he's often poking fun at himself. Really? You sure he's not making fun of the caricature of conservatives liberals hold which you and your fellow conservatives *wink wink nudge nudge* know to be ridiculous and not really true? So who's he really making fun of ultimately? Himself or liberals? And you think we're too dumb to not notice these layers? I submit we're seeing at least one beyond you, amigo, if you expect us to buy this line of caca Althouse and the rest of you are trying to feed us in this thread and elsewhere. I refer you to my first few posts.
All I see is your caca. You've been trying to polish a turd for the better part of this thread. It's still a big, fat, turd. And you've made Titus jealous.
So someone 'insinuates' Rush is a racist, and proves it by going to already debunked sources, and refuses to actually listen to Rush or context because they can't be bothered, but ...
the joke's on Rush and his listeners?
How many of these 'Rush is Racist' stories have to be debunked before people catch on. He's hilarious and he's opposed to racism, which is why he uses it to demonstrate evils in our world through mockery. It's not complicated. There really aren't many layers.
It's wrong to treat people according to race. Fundamentally. If you do, it's easy to twist it around and call Lucky Charms offensive and have AA bake sales or do something a lot less boring like Rush's occasional examples.
Snerdly, which isn't his real name, is a black guy. Not a word has been uttered from a radio speaker about that in roughly 21 years.
Okay, I looked at this and I think Althouse is correct on this one. But one has to look closely with everything Althouse posts nowadays, given that she is now, often, a shameless liar, a tool for the right-wing propagandists. For example, how she puched the LIE that there were 2 million people at the DC rally on Saturday. She never corrected her LIE. What is up with Ann Althouse - a law professor no less - that she is so arrogant tha she won't correct misinformation on her blog? It's not the first time. SHAME ON HER. People are getting sick of the PROPAGANDIST BLOGS in the political blogosphere. Stop being one, ANN ALTHOUSE, LAW PROFESSOR.
I dare Ann Althouse to disagree with the right-wing blogosphere on something, anything. When wad the last time? She agrees with everything they post? When they are so often lying? Why is Althouse afraid to disagree with the right-wing blogosphere? Because she depends on InstaPundit for hits? Because 90% of her commenters would get upset? I dare Althouse to become an independent blog again. Did she really believe obama was gonna harm children by telling them to study hard and wash their hands, or was she just trying to please InstaPundit?
Revenant,
My previous post to bagh20 can apply to you too. But here's a bunch of racist quotes attributed to Limbaugh for you to peruse.
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2549
I'm not going to try and verify each one, but if you want to write each one off as automatically bogus, go right ahead. But being that you're not a defensive Limbaugh devotee or a conservative, you probably wouldn't do that.
As for my "HAHAHAHA" back there, that was just mockery and not an attempt at serious rebuttal. You're awfully sharp to have noticed.
I guess that the above is a joke, but a lot of people thought there were 2 million folks at the rally, and you can't really prove that there weren't that many. We just know there were a hell of a lot of people, and that the democrats claimed it was going to be 2 million people and then laughed that it wasn't, as thought their guesses are the basis of what's successful and what isn't.
Again, I realize you're probably joking, what with all the law professor talk, but LGF really has its panties twisted over the idea that conservatives posted a lot of pics of the rally and repeated the dem memo's claim of 2 million people.
Perhaps there was 1 and a half million? I know ABC and MSNBC said 70,000, which is a drastically less accurate estimate. What's interesting to me is that whatever standard makes a lie of the inability to count to 2 million in a photograph must also make a horrible lie of Obama's constant employment, deficit, and tax predictions, and of course accusing Rush of something that you know he didn't say if you paid attention to him.
I was wondering if Ann Althouse ever corrected the lie she pushed that there were 2 million people at the rally last saturday? If she hasn't corrected that lie she pushed, she is a liar, I guess. It's not the first time she's refused to correct the lies she's pushed on her blog. Why is she becoming such a partisan propagandist?
loafing, about Obama's speech to the schools, Obama's admin already admitted that they inserted lots of political propaganda that they knew was problematic, and when they saw the backlash, they scrubbed the speech until we got the fairly benign and meaningless crap Obama actually said.
So the fears, before the speech, that Obama could be out of line, has been proven a legitimate fear. The kooks in that case are the ones claiming no such fear is necessary. It's a shame Obama needs the GOP to constantly hound him for him to simply respect our schools.
I don't read these comments enough to know who is a reliable basher or fawner or lefty or righty. Loafing's constant-ness in his claim seems more desperate anger than amusing sarcasm.
Anyway, Althouse only appears to quote someone else claiming 2 million, and only to make a general point that Althouse and the person quoted expected the TEA parties to fizzle out rather than culminate in something huge. No where does Althouse actually seem to claim that 2 million people showed up, though I don't think it's been even close to proven that 2 million didn't show up. Many of the normal indicators of mass, such as litter, weren't here because these were good people instead of disgusting welfare recipients (that was a joke).
No, I'm not joking at all. I found it despicable that Althouse promoted the lie that there were 2 million at that rally. She has a lot of readers and she should not be choosing to become a propaganda web site. When I saw her pushing to 2 million figure, I just thought: "Oh, Althouse is now one of the liars of the blogosphere".
BTW, I was one of the people who predicted all this from Althouse back when she publicized her vote for Obama. My view was that the only candidate she actually liked during the campaign was Palin and that her vote for Obama was strategic for her blog. That it would allow her to spend the next 4 years slamming everything Obama did with the claim that, "Hey, I voted for him, as I said on my blog!" Since she has often been slamming Obama on quite silly grounds, I think I have been vindicated.
Silly grounds?
Really?
Because the polls indicate that most people find them to be legitimate. The deficit alone is quite an unsilly issue.
Anyway, Althose didn't say 2 mill showed up, and I think more than 2 mill showed up. Prove they didn't. Your sources likely are full of shit about this kind of thing. Number of protest attendees is notably partisan in counts in the MSM, often undercounting conservatives exponentially.
What an ... ahem... silly thing to bash someone for, my fwend.
How is it a lie if it's an estimate? And that early in the story, it's a legit estimate, based on democrat research. Where's the lie? Where did Althouse claim the count was accurate? It's pretty obvious it was rank speculation, though it's as likely as any other guess. What if 1.75 million showed up instead? What's the difference?
I dunno, I would think you could come up with something a bit worse. I've heard much harsher and more compelling disses of this blogger, not that I really care one way or the other.
Slow: It would be ridiculous to think 2 million showed up. An, as I said in other threads, I realize Althouse was careful to give herself deniability about stating there were 2 millions there. She knew there was nowhere close to 2 million there, so she was careful about how she blogged it. But she absulutely encouraged readers to believe there were 2 million there. She pushed a lie and she knew she was pushing a lie. Shame on her.
You think MORE THAN 2 million were at that rally? YOu are LOONY! And, yes, Althouse attacks obama on silly grounds. She attacked him for simply wanting to tell students in the new school year to study hard, wash their hands, and whatnot. Even her own son saw it was silly to attack Obama over that. But Althouse has a lot of pressure to please the right-wing blogosphere now. I dare her to post shit that goes against the right-wing blogosphere! I dare her to, one time, attack InstaPundit!
"It would be ridiculous to think 2 million showed up."
Um... why?
the democrats originated the claim. I've said so repeatedly and you haven't disputed it, so I assume you already knew that. You are bashing Althouse because you percieve her to be your enemy and this is the best you've got.
It's not her fault she repeated someone else's claim. I honestly have no idea where the dishonesty is. Simon really did assert this many came, so it's a valid quote. You're coming across like one of those insane LGF fanatics. Look, people with different opinions are not necessarily your enemy. Althouse's post on the protests were benign. There's nothing outrageous about them.
You're the one asserting to know how many showed. If you can't prove it, then you're the worse one of the argument, don't you think?
Why can't you just enjoy the differing opinions? Why does this have to be a conspiracy to fool the world into thinking 2 million showed up rather than 1.9 million or 3 million? Do you really think that matters?
Seven M
Uh oh. The self-styled "centrists", who are really Liberals & the "mushy moderates" as Rush calls 'em (including a lot of folks really afraid to be associated with anyone who takes a firm position on economic freedom & who is against PC) are mad at Limbaugh and castigating his shtick.
He's in trouble now. He's had it this time. Look for his ratings and influence to plummet.
BTW, I keep saying: where is Dean Swift when we nee him?
I am bashing Althouse because I believe she INTENTIONALLY promoted the lie that there wer 2 million people at that rally. That she is arrogant and refuses to correct the false things that she encouraged her readers to believe. I think there was a very respectable crowd at that rally, I'd characterize it as a massive crowd, even. But Althouse pushed a LIE. And she knows she pushed a lie. And she arrogantly refused to correct that lie (not the first time). She enocuraged people to beieve that were many hundreds of thousands more at the rally than there were.
I don't insist that Althouse be an honest blogger. I'm just pointing out one small example of why she is no longer considered an honest, non-partisan blogger. If she doesn't mind being just another porpaganda site in the stupid political blogosphere...whatever. InstaPundit will link her to the hilt for being "on message". It's just that, once upon a time, she had a non-partisan site that was mostly a cultural site.
Just Lurking
Thanks for the Monty Python reference.
I have a set reply for one who gets mad at what I think is a clever reply to his/her repeat of DNC talking points:
"Look, you're attacking a position & a person with whom you disagree So who are you to complain when I disagree with you? And rebut your attack by denying its validity, retorts, counter-attacks, reductio ad absurdum, familiar parallel, analogies, dilemmas, etc., none of which are overly aggressive or rude per se, but any of which may well embarrass you & annoy you. This is the way rational arguments flow. Join in the game; answer back, in kind if you wish. But don’t whine."
I will now use your sketch, which is shorter & more clever.
Thanks again,
Inwood
John Stewart made the exact same joke as Rush about white kids being beaten up in "Barak Obama's America." It's at the start of the same episode where Stewart lambasted the MSM over their failures with the ACORN scandal. Maybe Stewart can explain the comedy in it for the humor impaired.
Slow Joe
It's a dirty job to have to take on the serious job of defending a satirical approach by Limbaugh & Ann's use of the perhaps outlier high estimate of the crowd, which appears to be much closer to the truth than the outlier underestimate being pushed as revealed truth by Liberal talkingheads, but someone’s got to do it & you’re the guy here.
Good for you.
AC245: I now see that you'd refer to Swift's "Modest Proposal" earlier on this thread. And Tim McGuire has also.
I'd used it in earlier threads, & in other blog thread. Great minds use the same classic references!
And you think we're too dumb to not notice these layers? I submit we're seeing at least one beyond you, amigo, if you expect us to buy this line of caca Althouse and the rest of you are trying to feed us in this thread and elsewhere.
I’m not dumb! I’m so smart that I see this WHOLE OTHER LAYER you guys don’t see. Even though I don’t listen the show and get all my information from liberal websites who hate rush. So there.
BTW, not that it matters, but I seem to recall something on this blog about the 2 mil estimate being off. I personally don't care, as it was still a bunch of people and I think the point was made.
But that is the point really, that calling wolf so many times about racism is losing its sting.
OK, but don't forget that that story would have had much less of a point to it if a real wolf hadn't turned up at the end.
" I found it despicable..."
Do you even know what that word means?
a lot of people thought there were 2 million folks at the rally, and you can't really prove that there weren't that many.
The teapartyists comprised the biggest crowd around the Capitol since the 60 million Obama fans -- including every black American man woman and child not currently confined to a nursing home -- appeared for the Inauguration.
that the democrats claimed it was going to be 2 million people
It's true, the ghost of Teddy Kennedy appeared to me in a dream the week before, and made that claim.
kcom said...
" I found it despicable..."
Do you even know what that word means?
Thufferin' thuccotash, do you even have to ask?
I think the funniest part of this story is that sensitive guys named Zachary are being paid to summarize Rush Limbaugh. Then other folks go read the summarizing of Rush Limbaugh to get offended. It's quite an industry
Let's see.
1) 50% of the Republican party are birthers (based on opinion polls).
2) The absolute, mind-boggling, rage against ACORN, because they GASP register many minorities to vote.
3) A Southern politician yelling "YOU LIE" at a Presidential address to Congress, when the President is black. The first time a President has ever been heckled.
4) Turning a schoolyard bully fight into a national story, solely because the attacker was black and the bully was white.
That is clearly racism. Even Megan McCardle sees it. Ann cannot see racism - therefore Ann is a racist. Because she has no problem with any of the above. In fact, she cheers them all on.
Ann might not believe the stuff she writes. Maybe she is just being a whore for siteminder hits, by catering to her wingnut crowd.
"1) 50% of the Republican party are birthers (based on opinion polls)."
The first thing about that is what is your definition of "birther". The second is, Obama could clear that one up very quickly if he chose to. My own feeling is that either he's going to spring the birth certificate before the next election to make the Repubs look stupid, or there's something about it that is embarassing.
"2) The absolute, mind-boggling, rage against ACORN, because they GASP register many minorities to vote."
My own mind-boggling rage against ACORN is because they register dead and fictitious people and illegal aliens, plus they advise child prostitute traffickers on how to not pay taxes.
"3) A Southern politician yelling "YOU LIE" at a Presidential address to Congress, when the President is black. The first time a President has ever been heckled.
First thought: the guy called Obama a liar while he was lying. He probably could have waited a bit, but the country is on the line. I don't blame the guy too much for that particular outburst.
"4) Turning a schoolyard bully fight into a national story, solely because the attacker was black and the bully was white."
I believe the bully was black. The victim was white. But that's neither here nor there, and I agree that one is a non-story.
"That is clearly racism."
My daughter is black. I've come to know what racism is and what it isn't. I've seen the real thing, up close and personal, in the form of mouth-breathing knuckle-dragging shitheads who think a white man shouldn't be adopting a black girl. I've stared it down and I'll never allow my daughter to be subjected to it while I live.
There is nothing, REPEAT, NOTHING about Rush's parody that indicates to me that he is racist in any way. I have seen very little genuine racism in any of the criticisms of Obama I've seen, and the biggest frustration for me is that very soon, the word "racism" will be completely stripped of all meaning. That's bad, because racism is still out there, and people like us still have to deal with it.
Thanks, liberals. In the future, if I have to go to the cops because of an ACTUAL racist incident against my daughter, they're probably going to roll their eyes and say "yeah, right. I've heard THAT one before."
This is a perfect example of why I left the Democrat party in the late 90s, and why I'll probably never vote for a Dem again.
2) The absolute, mind-boggling, rage against ACORN, because they GASP register many minorities to vote.
Yeah, like Mickey Mouse.
Exactly, Shanna. ACORN made it impossible to screen out fraudulent registrations because they completely flooded our country will millions of phony registrations.
that's disgusting. Accusing people opposing ACORN of racism is such extreme paranoia. It's enough to know that the people saying that are incapable of fairness or even common sense.
DTL, Bush was heckled all the time. Hell, democrats brought Code Pink into the SOTU.
Are you serious?
Also, most fair Americans just want to see all documentation on Obama, Bush, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, etc. It's not insane to ask for the paperwork Obama claimed to have in his memoirs. I doubt it has anything to do with eligibility, but I'm a birther? OK. then being a birther is not bad. I want to know everything there is to know about Obama and any other presidential aspirant.
those who actually think Obama was born in Kenya are nowhere near half the GOP... but hey, I don't really care... birther paranoia is a million times more reasonable than truther, and that's rampant on the left. Let's eliminate the real problems before we go after the benign.
tone_junkie said...
... But here's a bunch of racist quotes attributed to Limbaugh for you to peruse.
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2549
I'm not going to try and verify each one, but if you want to write each one off as automatically bogus, go right ahead. But being that you're not a defensive Limbaugh devotee or a conservative, you probably wouldn't do that.
So, to recap:
1) You claim that Rush has made racist statements.
2) When asked for example, you copy 3 from a liberal site without verifying them.
3) Commenters here debunk them.
4) You acknowledge the debunking.
5) You find a link to more liberal claims.
6) You don't bother to verify them.
7) You imply that if you're not a Rush devotee or a conservative, you should not write them off as automatically bogus.
Any yet, you seem quite willing to automatically write Rush off as being racist.
Here's an idea. If you think that link you provide is worth the bandwidth it is printed on, then just choose one of the racist quotes. Look at it in context ( including the entire segment transcript ). If it still appears racist, then post it, along with the link to the Rust transcript.
But don't expect the rest of us to do all the work to disprove a point that you won't do any work to prove.
I dare Ann Althouse to disagree with the right-wing blogosphere on something, anything. When wad the last time?
The Joe Wilson incident, last week.
A more relevant question, of course, would be "when did Ann agree with the right when other moderates did not". The median American, for example, doesn't like the current health care reform plan. So while right-wingers dislike Obama's plan, disliking Obama's plan doesn't demonstrate an alliance with the right.
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2549
I'm not going to try and verify each one
I wouldn't think of asking you to. You only need to verify the ones you expect me to offer a defense for.
Hey DTL, did I miss your riff on how the space program is all an anti-homosexual conspiracy? Because I was really looking forward to it.
Blogger Kirby Olson said..."And the part of Obama that called Kanye West a jackass was the racist part. Obama should be ashamed of his white half."
YOU don't think he's a jackass?
And what in the world does race have to do with the President calling him out for being just that?
You're a racist idiot.
Ignorance is Bliss
&
Revenant,
"To go with a veritable rookie whose only chance of winning is that he's black." -- Limbaugh on Obama
Here's the audio:
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200806020006
Limbaugh is bitter and scorning blackness right there. And that's racist.
"To go with a veritable rookie whose only chance of winning is that he's black." -- Limbaugh on Obama
But that IS why Obama won the Democratic nomination. If he was white he'd be John Edwards, and we saw how well Edwards did.
Revenant,
You're exhibiting the same mentality. You're scorning blackness. How is that not racist?
There's the Rush Limbaugh for the college educated, post doctoral, many degreed, living on campuses but sick of the libs types. They listen in a refined way, shall we say. And then there's the Rush Limbaugh that people believe. I know from whence I speak. There are two Rush Limbaughs. For the latter group, the needle on comprehension, about anything, moves... not one whit.
"You're exhibiting the same mentality. You're scorning blackness. How is that not racist?"
No, he's not scorning blackness. Seriously, where are your reading comprehension skills? He's scorning lack of experience and lack of qualifications. And that's not racist.
Obama was easily the least qualified and least experienced major candidate in the field. The two things that made him stand out was his ability to give a speech and his skin color. If he was white, he wouldn't have been John Edwards, he would have been John Edwards Lite. A pretty guy with a pretty speech but little gravitas and next to no experience. The only thing that was decisive about him that was different was his skin color. Plenty of white people voted for him because of that and with 96% of the black vote it was obviously an important factor in that demographic, too. However, giving a pretty speech and being black are pretty thin qualifications for a successful presidency. They're perfectly fine, as far as it goes, and overall net positives, but hardly the sum total of what is needed to be a success at the job. And that's what the country is finding out now, sometimes the hard way. And that's what people are criticizing.
You're exhibiting the same mentality. You're scorning blackness. How is that not racist?
I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I'm not unintelligent enough to figure out how I was "scorning blackness". Please explain.
If he was white, he wouldn't have been John Edwards, he would have been John Edwards Lite.
Eleven years as a legislator vs. six for Edwards -- who knew rev respected the work of a tort lawyer so much?
tone_junkie-
I'm not sure why you bothered to include my name in your response, since you didn't bother to include a link to the full transcript, and much of what Rush says can only be assessed properly in context.
It's a nuance thing. You wouldn't understand.
But I'll be nice and humor you.
To go with a veritable rookie whose only chance of winning is that he's black.
I happen to disagree with Rush on this. Obama can clearly deliver a speech in a way that works for liberals, and that liberals would assume would work for moderates. But that speeking style does not work on Rush, so maybe he assumed that it would not work for moderates either. I think that assessment is wrong. But Rush's reasoning is not racist.
And in what way is this scorning blackness? Rush is not saying that Obama is unqualified because he is black. It's scorning people who would choose an inexperienced candidate because the candidate is black. In other words, it is scorning racism.
My original post about the 2 million contained question marks that reflected my dubiousness about the number. There was never anything to correct.
Eleven years as a legislator vs. six for Edwards -- who knew rev respected the work of a tort lawyer so much?
Four years in national politics for Obama versus six for Edwards. Plus, of course, Edwards was the previous VP candidate. Time spent as a junior Democratic state legislator in a monochromatically blue state impresses nobody.
No, I'm afraid it is a simple truth that Obama owes his nomination to his race. Limbaugh's observation that Obama's race was a benefit rather than a hindrance was obviously correct.
I think what people are ignoring, or pretending to ignore, is that he is speaking on several levels. At a minimum you should be aware that's how a person with a liberal bias interprests it..dog-whistling to racists, yes, racists, who feel good inside when they can mock black folks with some cover.
It is a joke, maybe (personally I think it's too far over the line even as a joke) but the underlying message is race baiting. I think the point on the magical negro song is the same. There may be a subtle political comment, but the the message that gets distributed over and over again is a white southern man making fun of negroes. And racist white people getting to get angry at black school kids, or laugh at negroes, while claiming that people miss the subtlety and that they're really making fun of liberals when they make nig**r jokes.
Why do I think Rush is intentionally pandering to racists, using a very thin attempt at humor as cover? Am I paranoid?
In 1981, during the first year of Mr. Reagan’s presidency, the late Lee Atwater gave an interview to a political science professor at Case Western Reserve University, explaining the evolution of the Southern strategy:
“You start out in 1954 by saying, ‘Nigger, nigger, nigger,’ ” said Atwater. “By 1968, you can’t say ‘nigger’ — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff. You’re getting so abstract now [that] you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things, and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.”
So yes, I thought Rush's comments were awful, intentially stirring up racial hatred in his audience, for ratings. I don't know what Rush actually thinks, but doing it for money and power is bad. I thought the justifications and humor are a thin veneer so to speak covering up his race baiting. I think the subtlety (which is fake anyway) gets lost and the meme that spreads is violent balck kids beating up whites, or laughable negroes. I think Rush knows that and plays to it. And I think it's shocking so many agree with him.
I think what people are ignoring, or pretending to ignore, is that he is speaking on several levels.
Maybe we're not ignoring it. Maybe we just didn't get our super-secret decoder ring.
At a minimum you should be aware that's how a person with a liberal bias interprests it..dog-whistling to racists, yes, racists, who feel good inside when they can mock black folks with some cover.
We are very aware about how people with a liberal bias mis-interpret it. That's why we are spending our time explaining it. But Rush should not be blamed for how liberals ( willfully? ) mis-interpret him.
It is a joke, maybe (personally I think it's too far over the line even as a joke) but the underlying message is race baiting. I think the point on the magical negro song is the same. There may be a subtle political comment, but the message that gets distributed over and over again is a white southern man making fun of negroes. And racist white people getting to get angry at black school kids, or laugh at negroes, while claiming that people miss the subtlety and that they're really making fun of liberals when they make nig**r jokes.
But this very comment could be encouraging black racists to think negatively about white southern males. Do you think that is a fair assessment of your comment? If not, how is it a fair assessment of Rush's comments?
Why do I think Rush is intentionally pandering to racists, using a very thin attempt at humor as cover? Am I paranoid?
It's called projection.
...
“You start out in 1954 by saying, ‘Nigger, nigger, nigger,’ ” said Atwater. “By 1968, you can’t say ‘nigger’ — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff. You’re getting so abstract now [that] you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things, and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.”
Atwater was a racist ass. And his strategy is even worst than the people accuse opponents of racism just for proposing tax cuts. Rush happens to be a different person than Atwater.
So yes, I thought Rush's comments were awful, intentially stirring up racial hatred in his audience, for ratings. I don't know what Rush actually thinks, but doing it for money and power is bad. I thought the justifications and humor are a thin veneer so to speak covering up his race baiting. I think the subtlety (which is fake anyway) gets lost and the meme that spreads is violent balck kids beating up whites, or laughable negroes. I think Rush knows that and plays to it. And I think it's shocking so many agree with him.
And I think that you are so consumed by seeing racism that you miss the subtlety. ( Which others of us get, so I can assure you it is quite real. )
Yes, I'm sure there are racists who feel encoraged by Rush. ( Just as there are racists who feel encouraged by Obama's opponents being accused of racism. ) But Rush's criticism of Obama is entirely in line with his criticism of Clinton. So what is he supposed to do, change his criticism just because Obama is black?
"a white southern man"
Rush was born in Missouri, lived in Pennsylvania, Kansas City, Sacramento, and New York City before relocating to Palm Beach, Florida. I guess you could make the argument that he's a white Southern man but you'd have to work at it. Missouri was a border state mostly allied with the North during the Civil War. None of the other places he's lived are quintessentially Southern, including South Florida
But I guess it's easier just to make an assumption that fits your stereotype than to be accurate. Or, made you heard it in code, with that special racist radar you have.
And, honestly, I'm guessing you're not from the US because some of the words you used would earn you an almost automatic accusal of racism here. And, contrary to your belief, it's only a tiny fringe of people here who go around making nig**r jokes. And even they don't generally do it except among a select group of people who think like them.
"Why do I think Rush is intentionally pandering to racists, using a very thin attempt at humor as cover? Am I paranoid?"
No, but you are woefully uninformed. Like I said, based on your language I'm guessing you're not born and raised here and that probably explains it. But it is a good lesson about how far you can trust book learning about a subject as complex as social and cultural relations.
Ignorance is Bliss
&
Revenant
&
kcom,
Okay, I’ll try and flesh out what I meant from this earlier:
"To go with a veritable rookie whose only chance of winning is that he's black." -- Limbaugh on Obama
Here's the audio:
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200806020006
Limbaugh is bitter and scorning blackness right there. And that's racist.
There Limbaugh is expressing disgust at what he sees as a candidate being elevated beyond his capability by a bleeding heart liberal, affirmative action mentality that’s taking the job from a more qualified white person and giving it to a less qualified black person, for good intentions maybe, but ultimately disastrous results.
“Because [Sen.] Barack Obama is an affirmative action candidate." -- Limbaugh, 21May08
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200805210009
There Limbaugh is more explicitly making Obama a poster child of affirmative action. And like concentric circles growing from a dropped pebble in a pond, he’s taken his Obama epitomization outward across the nation. By doing this, he’s not allowing that affirmative action ever gives an equally or more qualified black the job. No, he’s calling blacks less qualified as a matter of course. And for that I consider him and his quote(s) racist.
To ignorance and kcon,
For clarity, when I said "Am I paranoid" it was rhetorical, followed by the Atwater quote as evidence that speaking in code happens. He was a long time ago, but all these probems over all these years was not, for example.
And for kcom I did grow up right here in the USA, in a border state, more or less. You suggest jokes involving the n word are not common, I would tell you that I heard them constantly growing up, in a suburban and mostly white community in the 1980's and into the 1990's. They were not usually said with malice, just with casual but pervasive low level racism. If you're not aware that such things still happen and are still said, good for you, but that's sort of my point in highlighting that I think Rush is doing it. I'd guess if you do think such talk is that uncommon that you're either not from the south or that you had a wonderful environment growing up.
I'll agree Rush is not exactly southern, I have heard him tell his life story a couple of times on the show, engagingly. If you want to call southeast missouri not "southern", fair enough, though I'd disagree.
There Limbaugh is expressing disgust at what he sees as a candidate being elevated beyond his capability by a bleeding heart liberal, affirmative action mentality that’s taking the job from a more qualified white person and giving it to a less qualified black person, for good intentions maybe, but ultimately disastrous results.
So you think Rush is racist for being right? ( Okay, that was a joke. ) But I still don't see what's racist about saying that someone with zero exectutive experience and only 2 years in the US Senate is a veritable rookie, and that he wouldn't have been the nominee if he was white. Rush might be wrong about that, but that still wouldn't make it racist.
“Because [Sen.] Barack Obama is an affirmative action candidate." -- Limbaugh, 21May08
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200805210009
There Limbaugh is more explicitly making Obama a poster child of affirmative action. And like concentric circles growing from a dropped pebble in a pond, he’s taken his Obama epitomization outward across the nation. By doing this, he’s not allowing that affirmative action ever gives an equally or more qualified black the job. No, he’s calling blacks less qualified as a matter of course. And for that I consider him and his quote(s) racist.
But again, you are taking one sentence out of context. Rush has made it quite clear, at length, why he thinks the specific person Obama is unqualified. No reasonable person could extrapolate from that to "he’s calling blacks less qualified as a matter of course."
You believe Rush is a racist. He speaks almost non-stop, 3 hours a day, 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year, for 20 years, without shying away from race-related topics, and this is the best you could come up with?
Ignorance is Bliss,
No reasonable person could extrapolate from that to "he’s calling blacks less qualified as a matter of course."
A reasonable person can extrapolate it. You agreed with my first paragraph, but disagreed with the conclusion without saying where the logic went wrong in the intervening steps. So I'll break it down and you tell me where I went wrong.
Given: You agree with Limbaugh that Obama is a less qualified minority who got the job instead of his more qualified white competition.
“Because [Sen.] Barack Obama is an affirmative action candidate." -- Limbaugh
1. There Limbaugh is saying Obama is emblematic of affirmative action nationwide. (If not, why not?)
2. In saying Obama is emblematic of affirmative action nationwide, he’s saying that what one routinely finds in affirmative action cases is a less qualified minority who got the job instead of his more qualified white competition. (If not, why not?)
3. In saying that what one routinely finds in affirmative action cases is a less qualified minority who got the job instead of his more qualified white competition, Limbaugh is calling minorities (blacks in this case) less qualified as a matter of course. (If not, why not?)
Note: I don’t mean “matter of course” in the stringent sense of “necessarily” here, but the less stringent sense.
“Matter of course” - nothing to wonder at, usual, usual course, usual practice
http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/matter+of+course
- routine
http://www.yourdictionary.com/matter-of-course
Given: You agree with Limbaugh that Obama is a less qualified minority who got the job instead of his more qualified white competition.
Actually, that's not given. I explained above where I disagreed with Rush, but also why I didn't think Rush's opinion was racist.
“Because [Sen.] Barack Obama is an affirmative action candidate." -- Limbaugh
1. There Limbaugh is saying Obama is emblematic of affirmative action nationwide. (If not, why not?)
I think a better reading would be that Rush is saying Obama is an example of the problem with affirmative action.
2. In saying Obama is emblematic of affirmative action nationwide, he’s saying that what one routinely finds in affirmative action cases is a less qualified minority who got the job instead of his more qualified white competition. (If not, why not?)
Based on my explanation of point 1, I would replace routinely with sometimes.
3. In saying that what one routinely finds in affirmative action cases is a less qualified minority who got the job instead of his more qualified white competition, Limbaugh is calling minorities (blacks in this case) less qualified as a matter of course. (If not, why not?)
Why do you assume that minorities got their jobs due to affirmative action as a matter of course? Is it because you do not believe that minorities are ever the most qualified candidate for a job? Or is it because you believe that white employers are racist?
So clearly, you are a racist. (If not, why not?)
Hey, you're right, this game is fun and easy!
Oh, and if you want an actual example of a racist comment by Rush, try this one:
Rush once told a black caller to "take that bone out of your nose and call me back."
That's racist, and I won't in any way try to defend it. It was also more than 35 years ago, so I don't think it in any way discredits what he says now.
Ignorance is Bliss,
Actually, that's not given. I explained above where I disagreed with Rush, but also why I didn't think Rush's opinion was racist.
Okay, point taken.
I think a better reading would be that Rush is saying Obama is an example of the problem with affirmative action.
When minorities are given jobs over their white competition, regardless of affirmative action, there are three possible scenarios: 1) they’re less qualified 2) they’re equally qualified 3) they’re more qualified. Limbaugh clearly thinks affirmative action exacerbates 1), but to believe that, one has to believe that from the pool of all workers, it isn’t even odds that the minorities employers are forced to choose are just as qualified (or more so) than their white competition, but rather the odds are greater that they’re less qualified.
Of course there are cases where it’s true the minorities were less qualified, but those are the ones that get attention, not the cases where the minorities were equally or more qualified. Those are under the radar.
One can make a reasonable argument to do away with affirmative action, that its corrective effects in a once racist society are now more negligible. But that’s the argument to be made, not griping in the bigoted fashion Limbaugh is.
Why do you assume that minorities got their jobs due to affirmative action as a matter of course?
I don’t. See previous.
Oh, and if you want an actual example of a racist comment by Rush, try this one:
Rush once told a black caller to "take that bone out of your nose and call me back."
Yeah, I saw that one, but I couldn’t find verification for it like you just did. Good job.
When minorities are given jobs over their white competition, regardless of affirmative action, there are three possible scenarios: 1) they’re less qualified 2) they’re equally qualified 3) they’re more qualified. Limbaugh clearly thinks affirmative action exacerbates 1), but to believe that, one has to believe that from the pool of all workers, it isn’t even odds that the minorities employers are forced to choose are just as qualified (or more so) than their white competition, but rather the odds are greater that they’re less qualified.
Of course there are cases where it’s true the minorities were less qualified...
So Rush thinks affirmative action exacerbates 1), and (based on the next paragraph) you agree with him.
However, your statistical analysis is wrong. You don't have to believe that blacks are, on average, less qualified, because workers for a given job are not chosen from the entire pool of black or white workers. You just have to understand that workers for different jobs are drawn from many smaller pools. And based on random variations, some of those pools will be equal, some will have more qualified blacks, and some will have more qualified whites. So, for example, if 50% of the applicant pools are equal, and 25% have more qualified blacks, and 25% have more qualified whites, then affirmative action would cause a less qualified black to be hired over a more qualified white 25% of the time. ( Note that I'm not saying that the expected split would be 50%/25%/25%. I really don't know what to expect, except I'm sure it won't be 100%/0%/0%. )
One can make a reasonable argument to do away with affirmative action, that its corrective effects in a once racist society are now more negligible. But that’s the argument to be made, not griping in the bigoted fashion Limbaugh is.
But, once you understand the statistics, you have no reason to assume that Rush's griping is bigoted. In fact, I would say that baseless accusation of bigotry do far more to prevent progress on race relations than all of Rush's griping, satire, and parody combined.
Ignorance is Bliss,
So Rush thinks affirmative action exacerbates 1), and (based on the next paragraph) you agree with him.
No, I don’t agree with him that affirmative action exacerbates the problem of less-qualified minorities getting hired. I’m saying the problem exists even without affirmative action and that affirmative action has a neutral effect on it because I believe that on balance, all your smaller pool sizes and random variations taken together, it is even odds that the minorities employers are forced to choose are just as qualified (or more so) as their white competition.
Limbaugh can’t logically think it’s even odds because he believes affirmative action exacerbates the problem as evidenced by his angrily labeling Obama by it.
As for the next paragraph of mine wherein I showed I agree with him as you claimed, it’s almost laughable the way you cherry-picked not just a sentence, but a part of a sentence to nail me with. Actually, I take that back. It IS laughable. Let me tack the rest of what I said back on to make it fair.
Of course there are cases where it’s true the minorities were less qualified, but those are the ones that get attention, not the cases where the minorities were equally or more qualified. Those are under the radar.
I see on your profile you describe yourself as a right-leaning libertarian, which I’ve seen glimmers of so far, but the more you cling to defending Limbaugh on this matter, especially after you yourself posted that “indefensible” racist quote of his as you put it and then went on to excuse him for it anyway, the more I’d call that lean a horizontal bop.
By the way, before you cherry-pick some more and call me a racist for stating the problem of less-qualified minorities getting hired exists even without affirmative action, I happen to think the same holds true for less-qualified whites. That should go without saying since I used the phrase "more-qualified minorities" in the same line of reasoning earlier, but there you go.
Ignorance is Bliss,
Oh, I forgot to address this
So, for example, if 50% of the applicant pools are equal, and 25% have more qualified blacks, and 25% have more qualified whites, then affirmative action would cause a less qualified black to be hired over a more qualified white 25% of the time.
But you’re starting with the belief that America hasn’t any white bias that affirmative action was created to address. So your baseline is no racist hiring in America and you built from there. You added affirmative action and you got less-qualified blacks getting hired 25% more of the time overall. And that’s your end result. But that’s unrealistic.
Your baseline shouldn’t be no racist hiring. You’re supposed to start with a baseline of less-qualified whites getting hired more often and build from there. Why? Because if we start with the assumption there’s an equal amount of bigotry in each race/ethnicity, well, there’s more whites in America, especially in places of hiring power, so being fair, their bigoted preference outnumbers the rest and leads to a baseline result of less-qualified whites being hired more often.
Unless the concept of less-qualified whites doesn’t even register with you.
tone_junkie
Of course there are less qualified whites. Of course there is bias against minorities in hiring. Of course without affirmative action there are plenty of cases of less-qualified whites being hired over more qualified blacks. ( And even with affirmative action, there will still be cases, hopefully just fewer. )
Maybe what we have here, is a failure to communicate. Your comments seem to focus on net effect: Is there, overall, discrimination against blacks in hiring, and does affirmative action lessen that effect. I think the answer to both of those questions is yes.
Rush's position, and my defense of it, is focused on the individual discrimination that occurs due to affirmative action.
( And once you understand that that is the focus, I hope you will agree that I was not cherry-picking. I was just referring to the only part of your sentence that was relevent to Rush's argument. The part that I left out in no way contradicted the point I was making. )
Do you believe that affirmative action has never, not even once, caused a less qualified black to be hired over a more qualified white?
Because if it has happened even once, then you agree with Rush that affirmative action causes less qualifed blacks to be hired over more qualified whites. ( Okay, strictly speaking, if you believe it happened only once, then I got my pluralization wrong, but the sentence didn't flow properly in the signular. Call it poetic license. )
Note that I'm not saying (And Im not aware that Rush is saying) that affirmative action shifts the balance so much that whites are, on average, discriminated against more than blacks when it comes to hiring decisions.
All that is being argued is that the evil of encouraging specific discrimination outweighs the good of trying to compensate for general bias, or trying to specifically discriminate for blacks in some cases to compensate for specific discrimination against blacks in other, unrelated cases.
You can certainly disagree with that opinion, but that does not make it racist.
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