7:39: Strozzapreti? "Priest choker"!
7:55: Are you going to watch on CNN, with the uncommitted viewers' reaction lines undulating at the bottom of the screen? Wow. That's crazy! I can't tolerate that distraction, and the "persuadable" voters they've assembled are... not people I feel like monitoring on a real-time basis.
7:58: What are you looking for, mainly? Honestly, I'm mainly looking to see if Sarah Palin can sound reasonably competent.
8:02: The 2 candidates stride out, both dressed in black. "Hey, can I call you Joe?" we hear Sarah say. Palin looks tiny behind her lectern. She's behind her lectern there, and here's where I am, chez Althouse:
8:06: Palin's flag pin is way bigger than Biden's. Biden has a brown dot on his forehead. Palin refers to "the fundamental" of our economy. She's speaking too quickly, sounding nervous.
8:09: Whose fault is the sub-prime mortgage meltdown? Palin says the moneylenders have taken advantage of people, and she mentions "hockey moms" a second time. Biden blames Republican deregulation. Biden's forehead wrinkles only way over on the side, while the whole center is smooth and flat. What do you think? Botox?
8:13: Palin says she might not answer the questions the way the monitor wants, but she's going to talk straight to the American people. She reveals her overarching strategy. And I note that she's speaking clearly and confidently. There is no stumbling or fear, as far as I can see.
8:19: Joe Biden is going to "eliminate those wasteful spending."
8:27: I'll bet a lot of people are tuning out about now, satisfied that Palin is competent and smart, but pretty bored.
8:29: I'm reading Andrew Sullivan: "Biden is just dreadful. He speaks in Washingtonese. She just issues the soundbites and wrinkles her eyes and tells stories. And that works. The speed and chirpiness she delivers overwhelms one's ability to even quite absorb what she's saying. And it has put Biden off-stride. It's Biden who seems over-crammed." It seems to me that both of them are spewing policy (and it's getting tiresome). "Chirpiness"... I don't know, Andrew... that reads as sexist to me. Why is she overwhelming your ability to absorb what she's saying? Is she working some voodoo on you... and on Biden?
8:34: Palin said "Senator O'Biden."
8:35: Palin razzes Biden on clean coal. Is he for it or not? Biden says he's for it, and his rope-line comment was about his support for exporting clean coal technology to China. That doesn't seem to fit the text of his remark (which he claims was "taken out of context").
8:37: Biden passionately expresses support for equal treatment for same-sex couples, and Palin opposes same-sex marriage, but says that in all other ways she's completely tolerant of adults forming their own relationships. Biden then is given the opportunity to disavow gay marriage, which he eagerly does. Okaaaay.
8:40: Palin is praising the surge and insisting on victory in Iraq. "It would be a travesty if we quit now." Biden complains that she didn't state a plan. On the split screen, when Biden is speaking, Palin looks like she's brimming with ideas she's just waiting to express. When she gets her turn, she says Biden's plan is a "white flag of surrender." She reminds Biden of how much he supported McCain and how he said Obama was not ready to be President.
8:49: Biden is mugging and scratching his neck in an exaggerated way. I think he was trying to signal his objection to the things Palin was saying about Obama's willingness to sit down with Ahmadinejad.
8:51: Biden's heating up! Is he losing his temper?
8:55: At Drudge:
8:57: Well, let me ask:
9:03: Palin enthuses over her Washington outsider status as she claims to hear Biden saying, essentially, I was for it before I was against it.
9:09: "Palin: 'Oh, man, it's so obvious that I'm a Washington outsider and just not used to the way you guys operate!' And then, Biden pats down his brow. On sheer theatrics, Palin definitely won that moment." LOL. That's Jac (my son), who's also live-blogging.
9:11: "There you go again. Say it ain't so, Joe." Palin was waiting to say that. Biden's error? Linking McCain to Bush. Palin seems supercharged. The question is education, and she's praising teachers and winking at her dad in the audience.
9:13: Palin gets a big laugh saying that she and Biden made "lame jokes" back in the beginning of the debate when they avoided answering the question what they wanted to do as VP. Clearly, she's really relaxed. The end is in sight, and she knows she's done well. She's stood her ground next to Biden. She hasn't stumbled, and he's seemed a bit boring.
9:25: Asked what he's changed his opinion about, Biden says he came to realize that judicial ideology matters. (Which is why he opposed Bork.) Palin says she's never had to compromise.
9:29: We've reached the prepared closing statements. So Palin has survived... more than survived. She won, I think most people will say. Now, she's able to say she likes to do these unscripted things. She quotes Ronald Reagan (again) and mentions "freedom" (again and again).
9:31: Biden gives his closing statement. He seems like a nice man. Did he ever attack her?
9:34: Huge crowd of family on the stage.
9:36: The final poll:
POST-DEBATE: Let me highlight some comments. Stupe said...
Althouse can't just eat normal foods, she needs trendy.Is burning the sauce now a trend? Or do I create the trend? If so, I can't help but be trendy. Is there a strozzapreti trend? I just picked the pasta that had a shape that appealed to me. So just be yourself, Stupe, and believe it's all very trendy, and that might make you happy. Don't think about me. Or, hell, think about me until it drives you crazy.
She doesn't go to chain restaurants, and her cuisine needs to reflect her offbeat, edgy, urbane, t[r]endy life.
Ruth Anne Adams said...
The hair in [Sarah Palin's] eye is bothering my husband.Ha ha. That was bugging me too. I was distracted thinking about whether she was distracted thinking about whether it would be more distracting to disentangle her bangs from her (false?) eyelashes than to allow the bangs-eye combo to continue as a single unit.
Lisa said...
So far, she sounds smart, sane and Republican.(Lisa said baby on a night like this...)
The left will hate her. The right will agree with her.
vbspurs said...
Does Palin have ice water in her bloodstream or is it me?LoafingOaf said...
She's almost too un-nervous. It's making me nervous!
What a twitchy, nervous wreck Palin is!Palladian said...
Sarah Palin's pussy is gnawing at LoafingOaf's brain again.vbspurs said...
OOOOOOH. A little lesbian tension between Palin and Ifill just now. HAWT.(It's late-night Althouse.)
Michael_H said...
I don't want to channel surf--anyone know the Brewers/Phillies score?Ruth Anne Adams said...
Gwen's questions SUCK! Too complex. Easily ignored.Trooper York said...
Phillies won 5 to 2.Michael_H said...
Go 2 up on the series.
Ifill keeps cutting Palin off, then letting Joey Plugs run as long as he wants.Really?
vbspurs said...
The 'Mos are getting their questions now. Surprising nod to Palin by Ifill.!!!
I smell a skunk. Or a fish taco.
ex-prosecutor said...
If these were two lawyers, arguing, to a jury, she'd be killing him.palladian said...
God, the only thing more boring than a Vice Presidential debate is baseball. I'd rather listen to Joseph Biden filibuster than listen to people talk about baseball. I'd rather watch "An Inconvenient Truth" 100 times than listen to people talk about baseball. SHUT UP ABOUT BASEBALL.vbspurs said...
Nice! "Not sane or stable" about Dinner Jacket.lem said...
THE CASTRO BROTHERS. She just won Florida, que rico!!!
Gwen went off the script to help Joe!michael_h said...
Love the way Palin smiles as she's making notes while Joey Plugs speaks.chip ahoy said...
No fair! They televise the back of Biden's head to show all the work was done in the front.lawgiver said...
Cuda is landing some major body shots now. Joe's eyes are glazed, he's going downnnnnn!john stodder said...
Palin is just so damn normal.goesh said...
On TV it looks weird to be normal.
500+ comments - holy wowpalladian said...
Palin's faster pace makes her come across as very competent/intelligent, a bit smarter than Biden - she sure the heck exudes confidence - what happened to the dummy from up north???? gone, gone, gone
I love the milling around parts of C-SPAN broadcasts. So much better than listening to talking heads blabber.ricpic said...
Sarah's happy.joan said...
Lefty freaks can't stand happy.
But normal human beings love happy and love Sarah.
Karl Rove just ticked off 10 major gaffes by Joe Biden. It was hysterical.schorsch said...
Regardless of who won, Biden's tactic failed. He was there to debate Bush and McCain, and to ignore Palin as if she wasn't worthy of his attention. She engaged him, specifically, and was therefore the only person in the debate that was actually occurring.
MORE FROM THE COMMENTS: patca said...
I am soooo relieved--and very happy. She was fabulous.
I feel like smoking a cigarette.
Posts
1,045 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 800 of 1045 Newer› Newest»Palin exudes optimism and the American can do spirit.
Biden exudes Dem defeatism and pessimism. Or MSM defeatism and pessimism. But I repeat myself heh.
I need a little break, but I'll be back.
FIRST IMPRESSION:
Both these Vice-Presidential candidates are almost unusually well-matched. Neither is a towering intellect, and they have an easy chemistry together, which may accounted by the fact that they come from remarkably similar backgrounds.
As the debate wound towards the end, I will even say that Biden seemed to be charmed by her authenticity, and in another occasion and year, I think they might even exchange effusive Christmas cards.
I think Sarah Palin realised that she didn't need to be the Barracuda, as was leaked, but she was ENOUGH of the Sarah Palin of the RNC to hold her own in the debate.
Bottom line is, neither of them are going to win the Intellect of the Year Award, but they are safe choices for Vice-President.
Cheers,
Victoria
Who's this blabber on PBS?
I'm tickled a candidate has finally mentioned freedom! :)
I think I just heard Couric say the headlines will be that Palin didn't embarrass the ticket as "expected". Ugh.
Personally, I thought Palin did fairly well.
"Bottom line is, neither of them are going to win the Intellect of the Year Award, but they are safe choices for Vice-President."
Yes, again, I didn't see PinchinLoaf's fabled "trainwreck" from either Palin or Biden.
A walking parody. Fun to watch. Hilarious.
Gov. Palin held her own against the 36 year inhabitant of Washington, D.C. Joe Biden.
That well exceeded the expectations set by the DNC/MSM.
Let me say that Biden was OK.
"So the talking points from the lefty blogs should be issued soon... expect a lefty onslaught within the quarter hour."
So the talking points from the righty blogs should be issued soon... expect a righty onslaught within the quarter hour.
Biden exudes Dem defeatism and pessimism. Or MSM defeatism and pessimism. But I repeat myself heh.
You know, AJ, I will disagree there. Biden is not a doomsdayer like Code Pink, where he genuinely believes that Cheney is the worst man on earth.
I think he is playing the safe political game, and talking to his base about that.
But he's enough of a gladhanding Washington pol to know that. He'll probably smile that Cheshire cat grin to Cheney tomorrow.
Biden, Unplugged. Look for it soon.
"A walking parody. Fun to watch. Hilarious."
Yes, he sure is, isn't he?
"So the talking points from the righty blogs should be issued soon... expect a righty onslaught within the quarter hour."
Um, DUH!
If Fred Luntz is a Ph.D. I am Granny Clampett.
Angry lefty "feminazi" on PBS!
Victoria makes a good point, but as Gov. Palin said, she's been on the national stage for five weeks.
Joe Biden has been in the Senate, the premier debate club, for 36 years.
That is a damn good performance.
All you need to know:
MSNBC took a very quick commercial break. CNN and Fox still at it.
almost everybody in Fox's room full of undecided focus group members thinks Palin won the debate. We're told they were 50/50 at the start.
I love the milling around parts of C-SPAN broadcasts. So much better than listening to talking heads blabber.
I pray that Governor Palin will not ever serve as Vice President, let alone as President, but I have to acknowledge that she is a tremendously talented campaigner.
Great job.
Not all of us are depressed as you.
What has depression got to do with it? Typical - what next, are you going to pull BSD out of your ass?
It's hurt McCain to be associated with the Bush Administration. "Not all of us" have to realize that - just enough to put Obama over McCain in November.
Republican brilliance shown by Peter:
"Our 'national security freedoms.' What the hell does that mean?
It means you are an asshole."
O-Kay. You have nothing to contribute.
And, General McClellan?
"I pray that Governor Palin will not ever serve as Vice President, let alone as President, but I have to acknowledge that she is a tremendously talented campaigner."
Seconded. I feel the same about Biden as well.
but I have to acknowledge that she is a tremendously talented campaigner.
...which qualifies her for President, according to the Obama campaign.
Biden: Authoritative. Like McCain, knows the issues. You'd think he was running against the evil Bush.
Palin: Nervous, except on energy. Like Obama, no much depth--lots of surface beauty. She's so AnnieHall-esque...made me nervous hearing her talk about nuclear weapons.
Never seen anything like her. He's just another Sunday morning talking head.
She's going to continue to blow peoples' minds...especially overseas. It will be fun to watch.
Noonan is on NBC.
Where's Troop and Gruniskaya when we need him?
Peggy Noonan: "She Killed!"
I thought they both did a pretty good job actually.
The NYT correspondent on PBS gave the debate to Palin.
OMG. The dorky focus group that Frank Luntz gathered loved Palin, and slammed the media for their portrayal of her, esp the Couric stuff.
"I thought they both did a pretty good job actually."
Me too. I like Biden much more than I like Obama.
AL, does this help?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_B._McClellan
George Brinton McClellan (December 3, 1826 – October 29, 1885) was a major general during the American Civil War. He organized the famous Army of the Potomac and served briefly (November 1861 to March 1862) as the general-in-chief of the Union Army. Early in the war, McClellan played an important role in raising a well-trained and organized army for the Union. However, although McClellan was meticulous in his planning and preparations, these attributes may have hampered his ability to challenge aggressive opponents in a fast-moving battlefield environment. He chronically overestimated the strength of enemy units and was reluctant to apply principles of mass, frequently leaving large portions of his army unengaged at decisive points.
"9:31: Biden gives his closing statement. He seems like a nice man. Did he ever attack her?"
How about his "Bridge to Nowhere" barb, and that icy stare he gave her immediately afterward.
It didn't stick, though, because Palin didn't react and the moderator moved onto the next question right away.
Wow. Katie Couric's nasty editing really lowered expectations for Palin. Today she had a chance to speak directly to the people and she hit it out of the park.
In the post-analysis, no one is talking about Joe Biden. It's all about Palin.
The meme coming out of it is that Palin is direct and is a plain talker. That's what we need.
Biden exudes Dem defeatism and pessimism. Or MSM defeatism and pessimism. But I repeat myself heh.
Last week, a similar Luntz focus group were 90% thinking that Obama won. And today, this group thinks that Palin won, and she held her own.
Ultimately, I think that's right.
Vote Palin!...and the codger.
Frank Luntz couldn't poll his way out of a poll vault. He's a doofus magnet.
OIC. "General McClellan" is a derisive name right wingers use for Scott McClellan, the former spokesman turned whistleblower.
The commanding officer in Afghanistan is General David McKiernan.
Ha-ha. She's another empty winger!
This Harris guys from Politico needs to get laid...
Alex said...
beth - shaddup already. You are part of the MSM attack machine.
Alex, GFY!
I was just sharing my impressions with my parents. My father hates Repugs, HATES, and he thought she did very well indeed.
Poor Joe Biden. He didn't skewer the woman, and that will gain him the utter animus of the extremists in his Party. He didn't mention the earmarks, he didn't mention the Bridge to Everywhere, he didn't attack her abortion stance. NOTHING.
She controlled the tempo with her folksy winks and Main Street heartbeat.
WHEW. I feel I just gave birth.
Cheers,
Victoria
I am no fan of focus groups, and I have no idea how anyone with even a fragment of a brain cell can be "undecided," but even this group can see media bias.
VB - go on out to the kitchen and rustle us up a mess o' vittles, then. Ok, I couldn't find any conclusive proof that Fred Luntz has a PhD, but still, Grannie Clampett rocked!
AL,
OIC?
Is that the best you can do? Assuming you are right, she flubbed a name? OH NOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!
Richard Norton Smith is like a likable Baron Harkonen.
alpha said...And, General McClellan?
U.S. general urges troop surge in Afghanistan
WASHINGTON: The top U.S. military commander in Afghanistan said Wednesday that he needed more troops and other aid "as quickly as possible" in a counterinsurgency battle that could get worse before it gets better
The commander, General David McKiernan, said it would take more than adding troops to stabilize Afghanistan, including efforts to strengthen the government, improve the economy and build its military and police forces.
Nichevo helpfully points to another General McClellan, from the Civil War.
It's possible Palin was referring to that loser. But I think she's just another winger trying to insult Scott McClellan for blowing the whistle on the corrupt Bush Administartion.
"WHEW. I feel I just gave birth."
finally.
That NYT correspondent on PBS will find his pink slip on his desk in the morning.
Biden reminded me of Dole. I wonder when he will start doing Viagra commercials?
It's possible Palin was referring to that loser. But I think she's just another winger trying to insult Scott McClellan for blowing the whistle on the corrupt Bush Administartion.
Heh, that's actually pretty funny. Too bad it's not your night though.
I wonder if Obama knows who General McClellan is. I doubt it.
you can tell palin blew it by everybody (the locals) being GONE.
No, he is already on the Hair Club commercials.
drill sgt, I agree that's the name of the Commander in Afganistan. And, he said:
“The word I don’t use for Afghanistan is ’surge,’ ” McKiernan stressed, saying that what is required is a “sustained commitment” to a counterinsurgency effort that could last many years and would ultimately require a political, not military, solution.
3 weeks of spending in Iraq is more than 7 years in Afghanistan, where things are getting much worse. And where al Qaeda, who attacked us on 9-11, is.
more of the same!
Let's face it Americans are sick of Congress and Beltway inhabitants. So Palin has a natural advantage.
The average barber looks like an ginormous upgrade when compared to the reigning muckety mucks. No need to name names huh. We all know who they are and they must go.
The troll is tripping! It's hilarious!
Nichevo said...
Is that the best you can do? Assuming you are right, she flubbed a name? OH NOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!
If she flubbed the name, Biden misled folks on what the guy said.
the headline says SURGE, Biden says the General said a Surge would fail.
Joe held his own. He did not meet expectations.
Speaking of media favoritism, here's something from Megan McArdle. Note: McArdle is NOT voting for McCain and wrote a couple of days ago that Palin was a bad choice.
Democrats - the political wing of al Qaeda. They are indistinguishable in their goals. Liberals just keep making that point. May Obama (PBUH) have mercy towards the infidels.
Alpha:
I bet your soundbite "3 Iraq weeks are more than 7 years in Afghanistan" is wrong. Would you like to bet me??
Dkos or whereever you first heard that is full of soup.
Sarah's happy.
Lefty freaks can't stand happy.
But normal human beings love happy and love Sarah.
Look, if that is the issue, then yes, the surge is a bad metaphor inasmuch as it reflected the military machine running over redline for a little while. Now drawn down.
It is true that a short push in AF is not the answer. A push is the answer, with all the Iraq tricks and lessons learned, but it must be sustained.
I don't see a gotcha.
If necessary, would she be ready to lead? Yes.
OMG I GET COMMENT 666 AGAIN!!!! HAIL SATAN!!
you can tell palin blew it by everybody (the locals) being GONE.
We are real Americans. We are watching baseball. BTW, what the eff does Biden's dead wife have to do with his qualification to be VP? Or did he have a Hillary moment?
"you can tell palin blew it by everybody (the locals) being GONE."
Sigh. Lefties get the BEST DRUGS.
I do think it's tacky how Palin uses her baby as a political prop. They seem to be baiting people to say something about the baby so the Republicans can play victim.
Back! Wow, I need to take a shower because I have perspired right through my blouse I was so nervous.
I was talking to my BF (who is Canadian, and he was switching back-and-forth with the Canadian debate tonight -- they have a general election mid-October). He said she did absolutely what she had to do tonight:
Palin gave her ticket a CHANCE by being "normal". She looked comfortable being on the spot, and made no trip-ups.
Cheers,
Victoria
palladian said...
"you can tell palin blew it by everybody (the locals) being GONE."
Sigh. Lefties get the BEST DRUGS.
10:02 PM
I know, that's some good shit right there.
I haven't gone through the comments here, and I wanna give my honest opinion in the immediate aftermath of the debate.
Palin did way better than I expected.
She seemed a twitchy nervous wreck in the early-going, but got it together.
Joe Biden was not just dull, he started to piss me off with the way he's sounding so different on Iraq today as he did just months ago.
I have egg on my face. I thought Palin would be a trainwreck tonight and she held her own.
So what is her problem in the interviews? Where she is a complete dunce.
I'm still gonna vote Obama because I think he's the right choice at this time. But I no longer think Palin is quite the incompetent idiot I did before this debate. Don't get too excited by that. I still think she's unqualified for the job she's seeking, and it's sad that we can't get better candidates in a nation as great as America. I want candidates who actually blow me away, not who just avoid being exposed as complete ignoramuses.
OMG I GET COMMENT 666 AGAIN!!!! HAIL SATAN!!
FIRST!!!
Is she ready to be President? Yes.
The LoafingLoaf side of michael's personality saw the light. will the other three see it?
Stay tuned!
Thanks, LoafingOaf for coming back and manning up to say that. You have my respect, however temporary. :)
AJ Lynch ....
I bet your soundbite "3 Iraq weeks are more than 7 years in Afghanistan" is wrong. Would you like to bet me??
Dkos or whereever you first heard that is full of soup.
Ha-ha. It was stated repeatedly during the debate, by Biden.
But, please, tell us who you thought won!
palladian said...
OMG I GET COMMENT 666 AGAIN!!!! HAIL SATAN!!
10:02 PM
You devilish devil!
Is she ready to be President? Yes.
She's ready to be Vice-President, and she will grow into her role fairly well.
she survived, no change to the campaign, the polls will be for biden.
Ha-ha. She's another empty winger!
FDR went on TV in 1929...
Yeah, Biden is a real intellect.
I'm on the vectored glide slope toward my bed. Weather is clear, visibility good, cleared to land. I'm going to turn base leg at the shower and ease the approach.
Thanks, friends. Another fun evening.
I'll check in tomorrow for the usual trollish posting of the beloved leader's earnest talking points.
It's better when Biden or Edwards uses their dead children as props, yes? It's the liberal way. Of course Edwards keeps creating more babies, so he has a great future in the party of victimhood.
Oaf - have you heard of, or read about, the editing that your beloved media does to Palin interviews? I didn't think so.
So, keep the faith baby, vote for the Messiah, and know that all will be well and you will get change back from your dollar.
I do think it's tacky how Palin uses her baby as a political prop.
It was not tacky for Biden to use his very long dead wife as a political prop? Along with those phony tears? Yeah, you have your head screwed on right.
Will CBS News ever release the full transcript of the unedited Couric interview with Gov. Palin?
Alpha:
Because Biden said it means it is correct and accurate? I did not watch more than 5 minutes of the debate!
Do you want to bet or not? I say what Slow Joe Biden said is wrong! What say you AL?
Media Liberals are doing the same thing after that they did at her RNC speech -- they are nitpicky and negative. The American public will notice a disconnect there in what they saw and what they say she did, because they are not able to edit her answers for 90 minutes to their liking.
She was utterly unflappable and focused.
Couric lost the debate.
Just throwing that out there.
Jeez - I am watching Fox and Sen.McCaskill is on.
Was she teleported via a time machine from the 1950's or what? She is one scary looking lady.
I was disappointed that Ifill didn't disclose her book in the intro. I guess PBS has one set of rules for politicans and business people and a lower standard for Journalists?
Ann said...7:58: What are you looking for, mainly? Honestly, I'm mainly looking to see if Sarah Palin can sound reasonably competent.
and the verdict is going in a clean new post?
biden - 51%
palin - 38%
It's conveniently gone now, but around noon today the msn.com homepage had a piece on the debates:
MSNBC Front Page news (10/2/08 11:25 a.m.)
Style often trumps substance in debates
The debates may be a forum for the pointed exchange of ideas, but in the realm of presidential politics, it’s overall presentation that resonates with audiences and voters. And when it comes to debating, the superficial has substance.
So don't be surprised if you see some superficial comments in that line tomorrow.
Thanks, friends. Another fun evening.
Best of good nights, Michael_H!
I am wound so tight after a gut-churning day of waiting for this debate, that I have to do something now.
Too bad my condo gym closes at 11 PM, and my other gym at 9 PM.
This is what I get for not joining the meatmarket that is Bally's.
Poll:
Who isthe bigger idiot?
Joe Biden
Katie Couric
Gwen Ifil
Alpha
Michael
I hate that McCaskill witch. Why did the people in this city elect her?
By the way, in case I was too subtle up there, Palin lied about what Gen. McKiernan said. He said the surge would not work in Afghanistan.
The McClellan part is kind of funny and shows she doesn't really know much. But the blatant lie is not funny.
============
Claire McCaskill's husband defeated John Ashcroft for the Senate -- when he was dead. She ran and won her husband's seat.
AL, I've already explained why "lie" as you use it is absurd. The debate has been so elevated tonight, let's eschew the mud if ever we can just once? Try it, you'll like it.
Geeze.
Andrew Sullivan doesn't have a candidate any more.
At least his screech will be above audible range after this...
alphaliberal said...
By the way, in case I was too subtle up there, Palin lied about what Gen. McKiernan said. He said the surge would not work in Afghanistan.
The McClellan part is kind of funny and shows she doesn't really know much. But the blatant lie is not funny.
============
Claire McCaskill's husband defeated John Ashcroft for the Senate -- when he was dead. She ran and won her husband's seat.
10:16 PM
You are an idiot, and you m ust admit it now, and STFU. She defeated Jim Talent. The dead guy that defeated Ashcroft was Mel Carnahan. His wife Jean served two years, and got defeated by Talent in 2002.
Biden had command of the facts, real and imagined.
OMG I GET COMMENT 666 AGAIN!!!! HAIL SATAN!!
Hail, Satin!
(Silk is nice, too.)
CBS Focus Group: Biden Wins Early numbers from a nationally representative poll of 473 uncommitted voters give Biden a significant edge: 46 percent say he won compared to 21 percent for Palin.
OK, Biden's a doof and a fabricator, but I refuse to believe he faked his tears about his wife and the tragedy he suffered.
No human would need to.
That is too too funny.
Ernie just got his citizenship and he still knows more about the Missouri Senate election history than Alpha Liberal.
Good job Ernie!
ernie,
Alpha is like Biden, he never lets facts get in the way. He just mispeaks. AKA lies.
I don't know who the idiot was who said "you can tell palin blew it by everybody (the locals) being GONE." I'm not gonna go looking for the original. I would have thought it was Michael, given how apoplectic he was that we didn't answer his question yesterday, but since he's actually sounding sane today (and Oaf too) I suppose it's AlphaLiberal. Tonight I had physical, not virtual, company, which is obviously superior, no offense. But in general I come here at my pleasure, and comment on threads of my choosing, when I choose to, and anyone who interprets any other motive to my absence is an idiot.
I'm quite surprised by the measured responses from our favorite Palin haters. Not that I expected them to make stuff up if they couldn't point to anything---just that I felt there was plenty of nits to pick if that was your goal. There were. For me the most glaring Palin "gaffe" was how, on more than one occasion, she blatantly discarded the subject at hand so she could talk about something she was prepared for. It was as if she was coached to get as much of the good stuff as possible, and don't count on getting a direct question to do it. But, it only happened a couple of times, and was balanced by the fact that there were some good lines there too. Overall I think she did well.
I'm one of those guys who likes Biden when he's being cordial, positive, and passionate. There was too much of the other Biden this evening for me. It's obvious he has a broader command of the issues, let there be no mistake. And yet I also think that when the fact checkers do their homework---if they do their homework---he won't come out looking too good. That's the risk when you rattle off policy after policy and example after example, you set yourself up for more opportunities to get slammed by fact checkers. Basic vision, basic principles, basic contrasts,
I think that's what people want. It's funny, in that infamous Biden "I'll bet I have a higher IQ than you" video, I really like his close where he criticized the tendency of Washington to be about policy documents, 15-point position papers, and so forth. Unfortunately, today he sounded just like what he criticized then.
But look, he actually did quite well, too, overall. He got some good attacks in on McCain. Quite good. Certainly will make the left proud. And he avoided attacking Palin, which was of course very smart.
I don't think there were any major gaffes on both sides. I think this will serve to give McCain a boost only in the sense that she has considerably relieved fears about her competence. So in other words, the primary result of this debate is that Palin reduced her negatives, and that should give McCain a small boost, but not enough to put him back on top.
AJ, I try, I try. Thanks! *BOW*
alpha -
You're trying to dowdify Palin, and that's not going to stand.
She said the counterinsurgency techniques [which were part of Surge since you're obviously uneducated about the fact that the "surge" was about more than a temporary increase in troop levels] used in Iraq were supported by McKiernan. The very quote you posted in a prior comment states exactly that.
(You really should read what you're cut and pasting before you post it...)
Nice try, but yet another EPIC FAIL Axelrod talking point.
michael -
You really shouldn't be quoting MSNBC polls here. There was a blog post a couple of days which analyzed MSNBC's traffic and showed what a high percentage of their poll results comes from overseas. News flash: foreigners don't get a vote in November, so no one but you cares how they're voting on MSNBC.
(BTW, every other insta-poll is showing Palin over Biden an average of 70-75% versus 25-30%. It's nice to hear that you're part of the 25-30%, but you really should read something more than just Axelrod-approved reading material if you want to be taken seriously.)
CBS Focus Group...
You mean Democrat Party operatives?
peter, I have noticed that
Manny should be sued by Red Sox fans for breach of contract.
One of those class actions.
If we dont win I will blame Manny.
I'm getting ready for bed now. Not that most of you care, that's OK. But trolls, let's see if you learned any lesson from my first paragraph above.
OK, Biden's a doof and a fabricator, but I refuse to believe he faked his tears about his wife and the tragedy he suffered.
Why was it brought up? Why is it important to the debate? What does it have to do with his lack of ability to be VP? She died many many years ago, not yesterday or last year.
It was nothing but a shameless total sham and a pathetic one at that; just to make him look human or to dsave his ass.
Karl Rove just ticked off 10 major gaffes by Joe Biden. It was hysterical.
mcq, have a great night!
One point-
Get rid of the electoral college.
Period.
Let the People decide this one.
Karl Rove - Now THAT is HYSTERICAL.
Joe Biden clasping pen:
"Hi, my name is Joe Biden and I want to talk to you about erectile dysfucntion...
Viva Viagra"
michael, you need some weed to even out, dude, you are still tripping...it's sad.
Fox News. Fair and Balanced.
Bottom line is, neither of them are going to win the Intellect of the Year Award, but they are safe choices for Vice-President.
Cheers,
Victoria
Maybe the lesson here is that it is self-destructive for America to wish to tear down "the other side's younger leaders" and discredit them.
America will need all the people of Palin, and Jindal's, and Obama's, and Harold Fords, and economic and military leaders emerging from Iraq/Afghanistan - that generation - that we can get from Gen X and Gen Y and not destroy them as they are learning the path to go from executive to high executive leadership.
It serves America in the long-term, not tearing them down and demonizing them. As much as tearing down people like Lincoln, FDR, Richard Nixon, and Bill Clinton served us by hammering their flaws and intimidating other young leaders of their times and eras from aspiring to high office.
And "Intellect" is overated, Vbspurs. The "highest" intellects in position for the Presidency or occupying the office have been Jefferson, Aaron Burr, James Madison, Lincoln, Wilson, Hoover, Nixon, Clinton, and Mitt Romney. With SAT 1600 aspirants like Chucj Schumer and Elliot Spitzer falling by the wayside.
Character may be better than IQ in leaders like FDR, Truman, and Reagan...to lead.
Vbspurs may hammer Obama for being ill-formed and inexperienced, and others may "despise" Palin as a Christionist deserving of gang rape - but America needs good leaders and perhaps the right course for our country is not to aceed to ignorant Christian Taliban or Jewish-dominated media masters or Ivy League elitists to tear down any person.
The "adversarial system" of lawyers who have dominated US politics is a failed system. Imagine if their mantle trophies like Nixon, Gary Hart, Joe Biden, Truman had been "improved" by constructive criticism - rather than targeted like Czar Nicholas II's family in a Yekaterinburg basement.
The expectations for Palin were low, and she did well enough. Biden came off well with regard to policy details. Neither landed a knockout punch, but both did good jobs for their respective teams. This debate will probably be remembered as mostly a wash, with a slight nod in Biden's favor if people focus on who seemed to have a better grasp of policy minutia, but in any case the debate will be forgotten. As is the case for most VP debates.
Regardless of who won, Biden's tactic failed. He was there to debate Bush and McCain, and to ignore Palin as if she wasn't worthy of his attention. She engaged him, specifically, and was therefore the only person in the debate that was actually occurring.
Ex-Bush Officials: Biden Won The Debate
The consensus from the debate seems to be that while Sarah Palin exceeded the exceedingly low expectations set for her, Joe Biden won the night. The word comes from former members of the Bush administration and even John McCain's former press secretary.
Said Torie Clarke, who worked with McCain back in Arizona and with the Bush Administration's Department of Defense, had the following remarks on ABC:
"I'm so surprised at what we are talking about before and after the debate. Before the debate the speculation was all on Sarah Palin, how well can she do, can she answer the tough questions? Nobody was paying attention to Joe Biden. I think Joe Biden had his best night tonight. He came with one mission, and that was to go after John McCain, and he did it, backed up by facts. I think he did a better job tonight of tying McCain to the Bush administration than Obama did last week.
Matthew Dowd, who worked for George Bush's communications team while in the White House, followed Clarke and he too agreed that the Delaware Democrat took the evening.
"I think, you know, I agree with her on this. I think Sarah Palin did reasonably well. The death spiral she has been on for the last week, she survived. She's lived another day. She did well. But I think, when the polls come out in the next two, three days, Joe Biden won this debate."
Schorsch said..."Regardless of who won, Biden's tactic failed."
Find a poll where he lost.
I wonder if she's mentally retarded?
I am soooo relieved--and very happy. She was fabulous.
I feel like smoking a cigarette.
Does it bother any of you that Palin refused to answer any of the questions at all?
Everytime she was posed a question, she'd say "yes" or "no" and then says, "but I want to talk about is X"
X is often her "expertise" in energy.
She was devoid of any content. Sorry, Althouse, but NO ONE, not even those Ohio neutral audience people, thought she "won." Your site is seriously skewed.
All you need to know:
The CNN crew, which includes Carl Bernstein, say unanimously that no matter what happens in 2008 with McCain/Palin, that she is a shoo-in for running for the Presidency in 2012.
Two hours ago, my fellow Althousians, this lady was on life-support politically.
Today, according to the guy who helped to bring down Richard Nixon says she is surely the frontrunner for the Republican candidacy as President in four years.
That is the most arresting SEA-CHANGE in media opinion on one politician I have EVER seen.
My God, what a beautiful night.
Cheers,
Victoria
integrity said...
I wonder if she's mentally retarded?
10:45 PM
Are you still talking about McCaskill? Yes, she is.
I feel like smoking a cigarette.
Heh. Heh. I feel like I just gave birth (a breech baby, may I add), and PatCa feels like she finished up on her wedding night.
mixalhs, again, the debate was not in Cartoon Network. That was Dexter's Lab.
Fox
Biden 53
Palin 47
integrity said...
I wonder if she's mentally retarded?
We kind of wonder if you are.
Hey Mikey, you are a LIAR. You never provide a link. You just copy and paste stuff sent to you by the Messiah's campaign.
Michael: Tactics fail, debaters succeed anyway. Pardon me for analyzing the debate at a deeper level than the polls will.
Did I hit a reflex nerve or something? That was fast.
The CNN crew, which includes Carl Bernstein, say unanimously that no matter what happens in 2008 with McCain/Palin, that she is a shoo-in for running for the Presidency in 2012.
Actually, that isn't much of a bold prediction. Of course she'll run for President in 2012 if McCain loses or if he won and didn't run for re-election (I'm assuming that's what's meant by "no matter what happens in 2008"). In the latter case, she's the sitting VP and thus an obvious person to run for President (if only on sheer name recognition), and in the former case, she's the person who ran as the second person on the ticket and thus has some degree of a network and name recognition built in. The GOP is known for giving at least some degree of respect and support to the person who was on the ticket or ran a good race in the previous election, so she is in a good position for a 2012 run no matter what she does. No sea-change or resurrection, that's just following the standard course with this sort of thing.
Schorsch said,
Did I hit a reflex nerve or something? That was fast.
You appear to be a new guy. Michael AKA Luckyoldson is not a rational being. Don't waste your time.
CNN's poll gives the debate to Biden, 51% to 36%.....
CBS News's poll: 46% of uncommitted voters surveyed gave the debate to Biden, where 21% thought Palin won
C'mon, sycophants...let's see all those polls that give it to Palin...
Bring 'em on.
Yes, polls, polls, polls...the 2004 polls had Kerry winning. What did happen in the end?
Jim said..."You really shouldn't be quoting MSNBC polls here.
Okay:
Fox -
Biden 53
Palin 47
CNN's poll gives the debate to Biden, 51% to 36%.....
CBS News's poll: 46% of uncommitted voters surveyed gave the debate to Biden, where 21% thought Palin won
CBS News's
Fake but acurate!
Alright, time for this Cuban to go to bed. You trolls have a tripfest! I hope the acid peaks late.
To the rest, the reasonable people, have a great night!
This is what Obam thinks about Biden. For the lair Michael, I even provide a link.
One Obama aide told FOX News beforehand that if all goes well for them, most people wouldn't even remember Biden was there.
erniecu73 said..."Yes, polls, polls, polls...the 2004 polls had Kerry winning. What did happen in the end?"
Yeah, yeah...okay...everything's just fine.
What a dumbfuck.
and to ignore Palin as if she wasn't worthy of his attention
No, you're confused. That was McCain's strategy with Obama. It failed. Biden's strategy was to treat Palin with respect, meaning to treat her as an equal. I admire how both Biden and Palin engaged each other, made eye contact, laughed at each other's comments -- both in disagreement and actual amusement. I didn't find any excitement in this debate, but I did enjoy a rare moment of collegiality in this election.
Yes, Victoria, a wonderful night!
I will sleep like a baby tonight.
Ciao, Ernie! I am texting all over the place, and watching Greta's coverage.
She is showing the entire Heath family that watched the debate in Wasilla.
The best part of the night was Olbermann's signoff. He sounded suicidal.
YIPEEF*CKINGYAY.
Petey: It's all over.
Continuing to suck on McCain is useless.
He's too old, Palin's too dumb.
Palin was pretty tacky to say that Biden didn't know about raising a family. The guy had to step it up after tragically losing his wife and kids in an auto accident.
To defend against her family jibe he tried to reference his own single parenthood experience and was reminded of his personal loss and choked up. Then she started repeating "maverick" talking points again instead of being a real person.
Yeah, she came off as rather reptilian there.
Ann, you may be startig a new gastronomic trend. Forget the messy, time-consuming fire-roasting of your tomatoes. Just burn the sauce.
I want to see a Palin / McCain debate - I think she would win that one too.
She is average and it's hard to beat average.
Biden is not change - but Palin is.
vbspurs: "The best part of the night was Olbermann's signoff. He sounded suicidal."
You're lying through your teeth.
I watched Olbermann and he was nothing of the kind.
The best part of the night was Olbermann's signoff. He sounded suicidal.
There is always hope. Maybe he can throw himself in fornt of a subaway train or off the top of a building.
Hey LIAR Mikey, either provide links to your nonsense or go post on KOS if they will let you.
BTW, Ann, the comments you highlighted on your front page were hilarious.
This debate lacked a certain gravitas, and it was much more accessible to the common man because of it. Our commentariat were extraordinarily serious during the McCain/Obama debate, and I think we'll revert on Tuesday.
But this debate, which was also a bit dreary at times, was superfun to comment about.
Thanks for your live-blogging. I read all of Instapundit live-blogging links last time, and yours was by far the best.
Cheers,
Victoria
Be nice, Michael. vbspurs isn't known for working well with facts.
Have the right wing sycophants EVER admitted they're wrong?
After the Obama/McCain debate I heard exactly the same thing and Obama won every poll taken.
He also pushed about 5-10 point ahead of McCain.
Delusion run wild.
Ann, you may be startig a new gastronomic trend. Forget the messy, time-consuming fire-roasting of your tomatoes. Just burn the sauce.
I missed this gastronomic sideshow earlier. Something about stronzo sauce, or similar.
Sounds ...yummy?
vbspurs: "I read all of Instapundit live-blogging links last time, and yours was by far the best."
Geeeeee, suck a little harder.
Haven't been on Althouse for a few days, but where is Peter Hoh? I missed him tonight!
Palin was pretty tacky to say that Biden didn't know about raising a family. The guy had to step it up after tragically losing his wife and kids in an auto accident.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, bring out the fucking violins. He better pray a bunch of nannies don;t come out of the woodwork saying they raised his kids while he ran around DC.
Outspoken comedienne Sandra Bernhard has shot down earlier reports that she said Sarah Palin would be "gang-raped by my big black brothers" if she enters Manhattan.
"I never said 'gang-raped' and I never used 'rape,' " Bernhard told the Daily News on Thursday. "It is nuanced comedy, like the discussion of Old and New Testament that my Jewish Center audience appreciated and had the intelligence to applaud."
A Jewish Center audience member disputed that.
"Sandra ripped into Palin and her Christian beliefs, and in another segment talked about how good it would be to have "her" black homies gang-rape the bitch."
"The DC Jewish Center audience who generally hate Republicans cheered - but I thought ridiculing the Christian religion and making a joke of raping a female you hate was way out of bounds. Notice that my fellow Jews would have objected to Muslim jokes or rape joke crap about Hillary getting stuck by blacks under some Jewish person's commands. I was disgusted by Bernhard's remarks and all my fellow Jews cheering and defending her, and I'm no PC type."
AL: "3 weeks of spending in Iraq is more than 7 years in Afghanistan"
I am a novice in sorting through government money stuff (too many zeroes) but I found this:
CRS Report for Congress
The Cost of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Other Global War
on Terror Operations Since 9/11
Covers FY2001 - FY2009
Afghanistan war $172 billion (8 yrs)
Iraq war $653 billion (6 years)
Let's just take average / year / week
AF: $21.5 billion / yr
IR: $109 billion / yr
3 weeks of IR $6.3 billion
7 years of AF $150.5 billion
It doesn't seem to be 121:1
Maybe the day to day numbers are different?
Also, Afghanistan involves NATO troops (such as they are) which means there is other money there too (?)
Clearly there is a lot of work to do Afghanistan. It is a very different country.
Anyway.
Palin did well.
Petey: "Hey LIAR Mikey, either provide links to your nonsense or go post on KOS if they will let you."
Oh, okay.
Let me get right to it.
You can read where it came from...if you don't believe it...disprove it.
JAL - Be sure to send that silly shit along to Bush.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, bring out the fucking violins. He better pray a bunch of nannies don;t come out of the woodwork saying they raised his kids while he ran around DC.
That won't happen because Biden was pretty well-known for going back to Delaware to take care of the kids and not hitting the DC social scene while they were growing up and before he remarried. Better luck next time with the quip there, Peter.
Michael said...
vbspurs: "I read all of Instapundit live-blogging links last time, and yours was by far the best."
Geeeeee, suck a little harder.
Ya see Mikey, now you know why we think you are a LIAR and an astro troller. Now go and get your info from your butt boy, Obama.
He better pray a bunch of nannies don;t come out of the woodwork saying they raised his kids while he ran around DC.
Joe Biden is, was and will always be a likeable goof.
And those nannies must be pushing 50-60, long-since naturalised US citizens by now, possibly when my hero Ronald Reagan declared amnesty...
Cedarford - Have you read a transcript of the show?
Didn't think so.
Lying liars and the lies they tell...
Petey, do you know ho to read?
What does the comment you provide have to do with anybody "lying?"
Are you drunk...again?
Peter V. Bella said..."Yeah, yeah, yeah, bring out the fucking violins."
This is why I'm convinced you're a disgusting piece of shit.
And I don't believe you were a cop.
I've never known one who would say something like that.
Michael said...
"Have the right wing sycophants EVER admitted they're wrong?"
Yes. Many of us had written McCain off as a contender as recently as eleven months ago. We were wrong. No shame in that, believe it or not.
Again, Michael is the king of the ass-end of threads, lurching around in the rubble screeching and throwing feces, hoping he'll hit someone.
Must be tough to be a bottom-feeder.
Damn it, Biden didn't pull a Biden. I was so looking forward to him saying something indecipherable.
I wish they would stop calling these debates and start calling them press conferences.
It's actually kind of funny to watch VP candidates defend the President candidate on issues where they totally disagree. You can almost see them struggling to justify some dumb as hell policy. (Like McCain's health plan or, well, just about anything Biden has to say about Obama.)
Did you even listen, alphaliberal? She openly stated she was going to talk about herself and what her strengths were. She wasn't saying Biden didn't know how to raise a family; if anything she was making a dig at Obama (or do remember Michelle Obama telling women's conferences a year ago that Barack was a total asshole as a husband and father?)
I like Palin, but Biden won.
He had an obvious mastery of detail and clearly knew what a question was about. She tended to ramble a lot.
Now, you can win a debate against someone wonkier. Reagan was a master of it. You have to have good one liners, and you have to be funny. Palin didn't quite connect.
She let way too many things slide, like the Democratic role in the financial crisis. Lots of blame for everyone, and for Biden in particular. She should have studied up on that.
She didn't melt down on stage, and once more I think expectations were so low that she "won" simply by showing up and not ranting in tongues. That's media backfire.
I watched on CSPAN to be as spin free as possible, and I was surprised to read the reactions that she did so well.
With over 700 comments, if anyone is still reading this thread, go to bed!
RyanP said...
"One point- Get rid of the electoral college."
The face of the enemy, ladies and gentlemen.
michael -
If you're going to insist on displaying your ignorance, then I'm going to have to insist on pointing it out:
You cite the CNN poll:
CNN's poll gives the debate to Biden, 51% to 36%.....
Here's the problem for you:
Prior to the debate 54% of CNN respondents say that they they didn't think Sarah Palin was acceptable.
So, right off the bat, we're talking about a completey skewed sample.
But's let look at that deeper. Prior to the debate, 54% were so far into the Obama tank that Palin was unacceptable. Yet after the debate only 51% thought Biden won the debate.
Do the math, genius....Even the ones deep in the tank for Obama think Palin won....
Incidentally, I don't think Biden believed half the things he said, like Cheney being the worse vice-president ever--Burr wasn't exactly an icon (hell, Jefferson pretty much sucked as VP.)
I'm actually surprised that Biden accepted running as VP. He's always struck me as the kind of guy who really, really likes being Senator--not from a power perspective, but he likes being there and debating and hearing himself talk. Kind of like Orin Hatch, but not writing music (thank God.)
Is it true Obama 'still can't admit the surge works'?
The Statement:
During the vice-presidential debate in St. Louis on Thursday, Oct. 2, Republican nominee Gov. Sarah Palin criticized Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama's opposition to the military "surge" in Iraq and said, "The surge worked. Barack Obama still can't admit the surge works."
The Facts:
In a January 10, 2007, speech, President Bush announced plans to increase the number of troops in Iraq by about 20,000 in an effort to quell violence throughout the country and especially in Baghdad. By spring 2008, as the number of deaths and other violence in Iraq began to drop, Bush and other supporters — including Republican presidential nominee John McCain — were hailing the "surge" as a success and giving it much of the credit for the improvements.
In a September 4 interview this year, Obama said the military surge "succeeded beyond our wildest dreams," while adding that goals laid out by Bush, including turning over control of all Iraqi provinces to that nation's security forces, have not been achieved. "There's an underlying problem with what we've done," Obama said. "We have reduced the violence, but the Iraqis still haven't taken responsibility."
McCain himself has quoted Obama's "succeeded beyond our wildest dreams" remark. At the first presidential debate on Friday, Sept. 26.
Joe said..."Incidentally, I don't think Biden believed half the things he said."
Geeee, thanks for the "objective" viewpoint and analysis.
Do you think palin was "winking: at you personally?
The GOP partisan crowd with which I watched the debate broke into laughter when Biden teared up.
Joe said:
She openly stated she was going to talk about herself and what her strengths were.
I don't think so, Joe. She was attacking Biden throughout the night and said he didn't how it is raising a family. He was reacting to that.
But we'll see what the record says.
Jim said..."michael - If you're going to insist on displaying your ignorance, then I'm going to have to insist on pointing it out:
You cite the CNN poll:
CNN's poll gives the debate to Biden, 51% to 36%.....
Here's the problem for you:
Prior to the debate 54% of CNN respondents say that they they didn't think Sarah Palin was acceptable."
So what???
The poll was taken AFTER THE DEBATE.
I never said they loved her going in, I just posted results of this and other polls.
If you have polls that say different...post them.
peter hoh said..."The GOP partisan crowd with which I watched the debate broke into laughter when Biden teared up."
And that's exactly what distinguishes them as Republicans.
Great comment.
michael -
You're citing a CBS poll with a straight face (?)...CBS...The network that got busted producing fake documents in an attempt to fix the 2004 Presidential election.
The only people who still watch CBS (and if you look at the ratings, you'd know that it literally declines daily) are a self-selected sample of Leftists who approved of the Rather/Mapes fraud - everyone else turned them off years ago.
Given the self-selection bias of CBS, the fact that Biden couldn't even break 50% tells you everything you need to know about how badly they think he did.
The latest poll from Fox (phone texting poll that they're running live) is showing Palin winning with over 85% of the vote.
According to your logic, her 85% on a more highly rated than network than any of those you've mentioned makes Palin the clear winner by a greater number of people...
BTW...take a look at the poll running on Drudge...71-27 at the moment...That's a spanking...
See? I can do a way better job finding polls than you can...My polls show far wider margins for Palin than yours do for Biden.
And you wonder why you're a laughingstock? Go running back to Axelrod and get your new talking points...
Palladian said..."Again, Michael is the king of the ass-end of threads, lurching around in the rubble screeching and throwing feces, hoping he'll hit someone."
Can I assume that to mean you realize Biden won the debate and have little if anything to say that makes sense?
Why not post a poll that shows Palin won.
Or, better yet: Go fuck yourself.
Did anyone time it? Was it 15 minutes before the leftwing cut-n-pasters arrived?
As usual, they kill the threads and end up talking to themselves....
simon: "Yes. Many of us had written McCain off as a contender as recently as eleven months ago. We were wrong. No shame in that, believe it or not."
Oh, so now you're pretty sure he'll wing...again?
You get dumber by the day.
Michael: JAL - Be sure to send that silly shit along to Bush.
Right. The report was put together for the Legislative Branch, not the Executive. I'm sure he never got the numbers.
CRS Report for Congress
The Cost of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Other Global War
on Terror Operations Since 9/11
It's at fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf
It's possible I did the calculations wrong. Probably because I'm female. But I can read, though I didn't read the whole report, I just lifted some numbers. Sorry. Not.
The GOP partisan crowd with which I watched the debate broke into laughter when Biden teared up.
Classy!
Too bad the conventions are over; they could wear little black funeral wreaths to mock him and it would be soooo funny.
blake said..."Did anyone time it? Was it 15 minutes before the leftwing cut-n-pasters arrived? As usual, they kill the threads and end up talking to themselves...."
So, is that your entire comment?
That was deep.
Like O'Reilly says:
Michael, I'll give you the last word.
And you can have it for what it's worth.
michael -
Doing the math on the CNN poll didn't work out so well for you, did it?
The best you got is "So what?"? You cited a poll, I pointed out how it shows the exact opposite of what you thought it said because, unlike you, I did my homework, and this is the sum total of your response?
I never said they loved her going in
So you admit that you attempted to basically lie about what the CNN poll said, and now you're indignant because you got busted trying to be dishonest?
You really are worth a laugh a minute...
Michael said...
"Oh, so now you're pretty sure he'll wing...again?"
Written him off as a contender for the GOP nomination - which is what he was running for at the time. Risky to throw around accusations that people are dumb when you're making schoolboy errors like that.
By the way, if you re-read your comment closely, you'll notice that you've actually proved Palin's point about Obama refuysing to accept that the surge has worked. Obama says that it worked better than he expect but that it still hasn't worked.
I'll show you my mashed potatoes if you show my your strozzapretti.
michael -
C'mon, genius boy...You challenged people to post the polls showing how badly Biden got whooped..
I completely debunked the biased pro-Biden ones you posted. And then I posted two that showed HUGE pro-Palin margins, and you ignore them...
After the thread-hijacking badgering you gave other commenters last night, you chicken out of a game you started?
I'll use your own words:
COWARD
The policy differences between Biden and Obama are much greater than those between Palin and McCain. This is a big reason I was so surprised Obama picked Biden and that Biden accepted.
Then again, I'm one of those who thinks that the VP isn't worth a bucket of spit.
Michael said...
"Why not post a poll that shows Palin won."
Althouse has already posted two of them. Oh, you mean a poll conducted by a major polling company? Well, gee, can't imagine why Palladian hasn't got one of those to link to; amazing that Rasmussen and Gallup don't have polling data on an event that finished almost three whole hours ago.
vnjagvet - "Michael, I'll give you the last word."
Thanks, I'll take it.
How long are most of the wingnuts here going to suck on that McCain/Palin tailpipe before you realize how silly you look?
No matter how bad the polls, no matter how bad the debate results...you just keep on sucking.
Based on the current state of affairs in America I have to assume none of you own property, have 401K's, pensions, or even have jobs.
Why else would you continue to support G.W., his policies, and in turn, John McCain??
Denial is an ugly thing to behold.
Jim - you really sound like an idiot, and I'm not saying that because I disagree with you politically. First of all, internet polls like Drudge's aren't taken seriously by polling analysts, because the polling pool is completely self-selecting. Also, your implication that Fox News has higher ratings than CBS is absurd. Fox News is doing well, but by and large CBS is still the bigger ratings network (I'm assuming Fox News is the Fox you are referring to, since Fox as a broadcast network doesn't generally get involved with this sort of thing. Plus, phone-texting polls suffer from the same selection problems that online polls do, by the way.) Also, something tells me that a lot of people watch CBS for non-leftist reasons. CSI fans come to mind, for example.
If you want to shoot down Michael's points on polling, come up with something that doesn't sound like an ill-informed rant. You're letting down your side with that.
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