This will all go down in the annals of feminism, people. So think before you write. Andrew? [AND.]
IN THE COMMENTS: The first comment is from Maguro:
Let me be the first to say that I've never politically opposed anyone's vagina.
Ha ha. We start with the grammar.
AND: I see I'm getting Google traffic from the search "Sarah Palin Is NOT The Mother," which currently returns 311,000 hits. The top one is a new Kos diary, from ArcXIX:
Now, I've known liars in my life. Their single core problem is not with themselves, but those around them. If they're never called out on their twisting of truths and fabrications, they simply continue to make larger lies.Whew! That is ugly. Pictures are posted, with captions like: "Sarah's waistline never changed. Her wardrobe still remained tight and professional." Note the gratuitous insult to pregnant working women. They can't possibly dress in a professional manner. There are also enlarged photos of the 16-year-old daughter with comments about the shape of her abdomen. The whole world is invited to talk about that teenager's body.
Well, Sarah, I'm calling you a liar. And not even a good one. Trig Paxson Van Palin is not your son. He is your grandson. The sooner you come forward with this revelation to the public, the better.
Despicable, sexist trash. Shameful.
AND: ArcXIX displays a huge blowup of the picture of the 16-year-old and issues a faux-scientific opinion: "Bristol is pregnant in these pictures. She is not carrying belly fat, which grows outwardly wide, and does not become dome-shaped. That's because fat is generally evenly distributed around the abdomen and a fetus is not. Bristol's chest is sticking out, a normal body reaction when sucking in stomach muscles." Belly fat grows outwardly wide? Nonsense. People come in all different shapes, and female abdomens tend to protrude. If the girl was pregnant and inclined to hide it, why would she be wearing tight clothes and standing in proud half-profile? I apologize for asking that question, but I'm hoping to shake some sense into those who are pushing this story. They should be ashamed to stoop so low for the sake of politics. I doubt if the Obama campaign wants this kind of help, not that it's likely to be any help at all.
UPDATE: The first link in this post goes to a Metafilter thread that you can still read but that is deleted from the front page of Metafilter. The reason given for the deletion is: "you should probably keep this in the existing palin thread." Here is that first Palin discussion, which has 1420 comments as of Monday morning. Search on the page for the word "pregnant" to see how obsessed people have been about this. Since this thread was set up as a generic discussion of of Palin, it is a better gauge of the obsession. You can see how this issue popped up and seized the hive mind.
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448 এর 1 – থেকে 200 আরও নতুন» সবচেয়ে নতুন»Let me be the first to say that I've never politically opposed anyone's vagina.
If the show were on the other foot -
if Sarah Palin was the Dem VP, pro-choice, but exactly the same as she is otherwise -
would Andrew Sullivan, the Dems, and the left defend for even one minute this kind of shit?
"I am the man who accompanied Sarah Palin's vagina to Paris, and I enjoyed it."
- Todd Palin, 2009
This whole Palin thing will go down in the annals of feminism as its most embarrassing and darkeest hour if the barbs keep up.
The righties over the years did not even do to Clinton what has been done to this woman in just two days.
It just shows a lack of total morality, ethics, shame, and class.
If touting something (trig's birth) is a reason to positively vote for Sara Palin (which McCain camp has done) then why isn't it fair game to question anything and everything about trig?
"she has a down syndrome baby, we should vote for her" That is the line by the right. She made her baby part of her schtick.
fair game.
The modern Democratic party and the American left in general remind of nothing so much as the Communist party in the 1930s, able to trot out whatever argument with a straight and serious face, even if it means completely contradicting and tearing down decades of carefully constructed arguments.
It's sickening.
It's for the children.
Hey, it's not like anyone's called her kids ugly.
"Stop prying into other people's vaginas, even if you happen to oppose them politically. What is wrong with you people?"
Well that sounds unAmerican if I do say so myself. Prying into someone else's vagina is a thoroughly American past-time, and one of the central themes of this blog. Cruel neutrality means prying into Republican vaginas too. And this may be a first where that sounds even remotely interesting.
Is this really all they can come up with? The left must be totally deranged. I read elsewhere today that Alan Combs had actually counted the months since the Palin's first child was born from their wedding date and came up with 8 1/2 months. He actually questioned the elopement reason of saving the cost of an expensive big wedding, stating that the reason for the elopement was pregnancy. Oh, really? I can't believe this crap. Totally and completely pathetic.
seven, that applies to both sides.
Bah, whatever.
They only succeed in making themselves look ridiculous.
Let us say for argument sake that it turns out that Bristol is the real mom. So?
Isn't this a private family matter?
Now excitable Andy wants to make the family "prove it".
Screw him. What a sexist creep.
Now I understand why he hates Hillary and Geraldine Ferraro. He's a misogynistic jackass.
Unfortunately, there's no pope of the left to tell everyone to hold their tongues. Sometimes free speech sucks.
The attacks on Palin, so far, have been absolutely disgusting.
Attempts to paint a woman, who resigned a nice-paying job due to seeing ethics problems that were not being addressed, as corrupt because calls were made to try to get rid of a dirty cop.
Attempts to paint her as stupid, because she's a woman, or because she was a beauty queen, or because she was a sportscaster.
Attacks on her family, because people want to use them against her and because people cannot believe she could possibly be a good person.
It has been over-the-top and nothing short of disgusting. Damn, people, argue with her politics. If you can't do that, then shut the hell up.
Palin could produce the birth video and the people pushing this meme would still be pushing it. This is just like Clarence Thomas. this is just like Ann Althouse. This is the left setting out to punish, slime, and destroy someone whose support they feel entitled to for the only sin that is unpardonable in Left Blogistan: independent thought. Palin is a woman; the left feels entitled to the support of women; and because she is off the reservation, they have to make an example of her both to punish her and deter other women from leaving the reservation.
uws guy
"she has a down syndrome baby, we should vote for her"
Who ever said that?
You're worse than excitable Andy.
@aprilapple: really? for pete's sake, it's touted as a reason why mccain picked her. It showcases her right to life street cred'.
It also proves that liberal feminists aren't interested in feminism or women, they're interested in liberalism and political power. I asked the other day how liberal feminists are going to feel about having to spend two months working to prevent the election of the first female veep, and that question's been answered: they've declared her an unperson and are hurling everything but the kitchen sink at her. Where are those staunch defenders of feminism - Jill? Amanda? Jessica? How would they react if Obama had picked Stephanie Herseth and the kind of attacks now levelled at Palin were being levelled at Herseth? It does not take much of an imagination to wonder why the dogs are not barking.
fair game.
There has to be a serious moral vacuum here, when people want to go after a 5 month old Down Syndrome baby.
And if people think Obama, were he to hear of this attempted smear, would approve of these tactics, I think you have another thing coming.
I rate his sense of decency, especially as a father, much higher than that.
God, I need to take a shower to wipe away the feeling of grit hard core politics leaves you with.
UWS guy said...
"for pete's sake, it's touted as a reason why mccain picked her. It showcases her right to life street cred"
Not by McCain, it isn't.
Simon, you left out the part that this is just like those rumors about John McCain having an illegitimate black daughter.
vbspurs said...
"And if people think Obama, were he to hear of this attempted smear, would approve of these tactics, I think you have another thing coming."
One of Obama's stated reasons for refusing public funding was that McCain wasn't willing or able to control the vicious attacks that his supporters were going to run against Obama. Seems McCain isn't the only one with command and control problems.
who's "going after the baby"? I promise, the baby is not losing any sleep because of this. Please, that's ridiculous. It's not like nothing is fishy about this.
1)nobody knew she was pregnant.
2)her oldest daughter was out of school for 8 months?...
Simon, McCain doesn't have to say anything Rush, Hannity etc. are doing all the "culture warrior-ing" for him.
How many times will Althouse come to Palin's defense in one day?
We have several more hours to find out -- and then we'll have a benchmark to use for the weeks and weeks of Palin-boosterism that we can expect here. Will this be the high, or will Althouse go more and more overboard in her unqualified support the least qualified VP candidate in history?
UWS Guy, I'm really surprised that you'd defend this sort of excrement. Is that really you, or is someone Mobying using your screen name?
I've read your comments here for a long time, and while you're clearly from the left side of the aisle, you've always seemed a pretty reasonable, logical, decent chap.
Simon,
I was just about to post the same article in this comment. Glad you did first.
Among other things, it proves with actual facts that that Democrats (their leaders and blog commenters anyway) are LIARS!
LIARS!
Democrat LIARS!
That felt good (remember the Doonesbury strip on Nixon: "Guilty!, Guilty!, Guilty!"?).
But, sigh, Democrats don't care about lying.
It's a character issue.
mcmurray -- Palin's been an executive. How is Obama more qualified for POTUS than Palin? Testicles?
Peter -- Maybe the right is just as guilty. The right in this country seems far more consistent to me, not to say entirely so.
At any rate, this odd ability to grossly contradict core beliefs doesn't apply to me. I find this whole charade embarrassing and appalling. How can people who have staked their whole world views on feminism turn around and charge that this woman must devote more time to things other than her career, or that she was somehow wrong to have made a decision about her own body and her own children?
It's sickening.
McMurray,
Repeat after me:
Barack Obama is the least qualified Presidntial candidate of a mjor party in the ENTIRE History of the United States.
(Barack Obama is the least qualified Presidntial candidate of a mjor party in the ENTIRE History of the United States.)
LOUDER!
Won't you amateur gynecologists arguing your varied political views at least agree with me that they're all (even Andrew Sullivan's) pink on the inside?
It's a start at consensus, a reach across the aisle into the swamp you frenzied progressives call home. Feel the love.
UWS Guy....
Now I understand your POV.
Because you think McCain made the baby part of why people should vote for Palin, you find it perfectly acceptable to drag her 16 year old through the wringer.
What is the age when presidential candidate's children cease to be "fair game" in your opinion?
Pastafarian, I voted for bush both times. I'm not really that left, but oddly this blog puts me in the devil's advocate position a lot (Thought, I will probably vote Obama...)
Why is lying about one baby (John Edwards) fair game, yet potentially lying about another baby (sara palin) beyond the pale?
Why is it disgusting to ask these questions? I really don't get it, and would welcome an explanation.
I promise, the baby is not losing any sleep because of this. Please, that's ridiculous. It's not like nothing is fishy about this.
Seriously, UWS Guy, this is beyond the pale. Save yourself before you go into a place where human beings lose all sense of humanity.
Read what you wrote again. You don't have to admit anything publicly. I'm not here to score rhetorical points against anyone. I don't want to win at all costs.
I sense others do, and their lack of balance and lack of moral compass is starting to scare me.
Simon and Host,
That Wapo article doesn't prove diddly. It relies too much on the words of unnamed advisers. Like they don't have a reason to spin things.
There's nothing so threatening to Andrew as a fecund female. Or perhaps his reaction is disgust.
This action by the left and it's fantasyworld of being the spokesperson for "women" will finally put the stake into the heart of feminism for the next generation of girls.
HOOOOOOORay!!
Okay, I read the links about the baby, and let me unroll my eyes long enough to comment, even though it's tremendously rude.
What kind of airline allows to board a woman whose water has broken? I suppose she didn't tell them -- but what doctor would suggest flying for 6 hours (how long is the flight from Texas to Alaska?) after your water breaks? So that part of the story is suspicious but not impossible.
DS babies are not very common in 16-year-olds. That argues very strongly against the daughter being the mother.
As a former long-time viewer of All My Children, I can write the story: the father is a friend of the family who raped the daughter on the night of her birthday party. Expect the daughter to become a world-famous model and cosmetics mogul. The son will be forgotten until the daughter is marrying someone famous at which point he will show up at the church door. And he'll be pissed.
peter(dick) ho,
And your evidence for the opposite story consists of . . . .?
Like shooting hos in a Democrat hotel room at the DNC Convention.
UWS guy -- OK, a serious question, I'm not trying to argue here. Maybe I missed something. Who was lying about Edward's love child, besides Edwards?
Seriously -- Has it been shown that the baby that he went to visit in that hotel, that was born to the woman with whom he admitted to inseminating, wasn't his?
Does anybody else wants to criticize the people behind the "John McCain's illegitimate daughter" rumors?
Blogger UWS guy said...
who's "going after the baby"? I promise, the baby is not losing any sleep because of this. Please, that's ridiculous. It's not like nothing is fishy about this.
1)nobody knew she was pregnant.
2)her oldest daughter was out of school for 8 months?...
Simon, McCain doesn't have to say anything Rush, Hannity etc. are doing all the "culture warrior-ing" for him.
8:22 PM
You are beyond disgusting. Lower then pond scum. I hope you enjoy being hated by everyone on this blog.
Lack of moral compass? I'm honestly confused. Is Obama a muslim?
The only women who are going after Palin and attacking her are ugly women who are threatened by Palin's good looks.
The ugly women are the ones who are angry about her.
Host, wow, way to go for the jugular. I guess I won't argue with you any more.
Why is lying about one baby (John Edwards) fair game, yet potentially lying about another baby (sara palin) beyond the pale?
The difference is that there was a lot of evidence John Edwards lied about having an affair. It hasn't been proven that baby is his, so that part of it is hearsay.
Something that is true is by definition not a smear.
The Sarah Palin situation is an attempt to raise questions about her pregnancy, when all possible evidence points the other way.
See here.
I honestly am beginning to feel I was present when the script for Loose Change was first thought up.
And it creeps me the hell out.
Good night, people.
Wow dude, some of you people need to chill. You don't even know Sara Palin, I mean...come on....I'm not talking about your family here.
I'm talking about a stranger to you and to me and to everyone on this blog.
She's a politician.
Alex, no one here hates UWS guy. I'm a little mystified, is all.
Before people start bizarre conspiracy theories that require one to believe that Palin is a liar, they should be required to submit "proof", not speculation. Don't Sullivan and his crew have a clue as to how stupid and petty this is making them appear
Victoria,
UWS is a disgusting person for propagating this this line of questioning. So is everyone who wants to keep it alive. Dispicable, excrebale human beings. Wastes of humanity.
I suggest that we seek abortion records on Michelle Obama and Jill Biden immediately.
I thought Obamabots were bad. You guys here her name for the first time 2 days ago and she's closer to you than family.
*hear.
Why is it disgusting to ask these questions? I really don't get it, and would welcome an explanation.
You are speculating on a 16 year old's sex life. You don't see anything - EWWWWWWW! - about that?
On the topic in general:
Let's remember that Obama said his wife is "off-limits" in this campaign. I wonder what his views on this topic are.
UWS = lower then pond scum and anyone disagrees can go to hell.
I'm talking about a stranger to you and to me and to everyone on this blog.
She's a politician.
And UWS is an asswipe.
Wow...I feel really uncomfortable right now. Yelled at by Ann Althouse yesterday morning for a silly "first" post and now I'm Keith Olbermann...
People, let's take it down a notch and think this through:
McCain vetting person: Sarah, do you have any skeletons in your closet, that sort of thing?
Palin: No.
McCain vetting person: Are you sure? We really want to avoid embarrassment.
Palin: I'm sure.
Given that you know that basic conversation had to occur, Palin and her entire family would have to be the most craven people in the country if any of this shit you lefties have thrown out there is remotely true. We are talking craven at the level of John Edwards here.
Think. I mean, we hear all the time about how brilliant you are. Why not use some of that awesome intelligence?
Blogger Host with the Most said...
Victoria,
UWS is a disgusting person for propagating this this line of questioning. So is everyone who wants to keep it alive. Dispicable, excrebale human beings. Wastes of humanity.
I suggest that we seek abortion records on Michelle Obama and Jill Biden immediately.
8:35 PM
In the interests of fairness I agree. Perform immediate rectal exams on Obama/Biden and spouses.
Victoria, sure, the Edwards rumor turned out to be true. How about comparing a paternity rumor that was patently false, and known to be false by the people putting out the story. That was the case when Rove and Co. smeared John McCain and his adopted daughter.
Can you guys chill with the epithets please?
I hope this image proves that Sarah Palin was pregnant with Trig for once and all.
http://alaskareport.com/images48/trig_paxon_van_palin.jpg
uws guy -- I first heard about Palin about a year ago; and then I've heard about her non-stop since McCain clinched.
No, she's not family; but there has to be some evidence before people start throwing around wild, offensive rumors.
You know after hearing all this crap from Obama and his supporters I want to DESTROY him in November, not just defeat. I want total and absolute destruction. Turn the 527s loose McCain.
UWS guy said...
If touting something (trig's birth) is a reason to positively vote for Sara Palin (which McCain camp has done) then why isn't it fair game to question anything and everything about trig?
"she has a down syndrome baby, we should vote for her" That is the line by the right. She made her baby part of her schtick.
Why was Chelsea off limits? When the Clintons were accused of pimping her out for their own goals why was there so much anger and angst? Why were apologies forced upon the man who said it? Why did the station apologize? Or are the sainted Clintons different? They pimped their daughter, we should have voted for her? Now I see the true pseudo-intellectual, whacko liberal hypocrisy at work. Leave the Clinton child alone, but pick on the handicapped child of a Republican. The Clintons made Chelsea part of their schtick; or seraglio.
You really belong on KOS or MYDD. You are as immature as they are.
Seek the abortion medical records for Michelle Obama and Jill Biden.
Find out if they or their husbands ever paid for anyone's abortion.
This claim is already getting international press attention. I can't imagine Obama is pleased by this. It is getting to the point where he will have to publicly denounce these people in no uncertain terms. That is going to raise new issues about just how far his "over-enthusiastic" supporters will go and just how long the average American wants to put up with them.
In other news, I ran across this quote while perusing NRO:
Geraldine Ferraro: "I have to tell you, I got a phone call from my family too, and my daughter — the immediate thing was, 'Wow! McCain picked a woman.' I thought it was stunning when it happened, because it is so historic. The other thing I must say this is the first time that anybody who is in a national position, has publicly thanked me in 24 years." (FOX's "Fox & Friends," 8/30/08)
Does anybody else wants to criticize the people behind the "John McCain's illegitimate daughter" rumors?
Peter, since it's you, allow one more followup.
Those dirty tricks I referred to last night were almost probably the result of Bush campaign tactics. They were disgusting.
But the Palin story is not dirty campaign tactics by Team Obama, that we know of yet anyway.
(I would really be shocked if they emanated from his operatives though)
It's being pushed by men and women who wish to smear Palin with a brutal rumour lacking any common sense whatsoever, for whatever reasons they have.
IOW, this is about free will and a moral centre.
Political staffers might lack them. But that doesn't mean other people have to either.
A last shoutout to any pro-Obama reader out there:
Take a good look at what some people of your side are trying to do because they will end up causing you guys the election.
Night...
UWS - you better not complain. You and your Kos buddies brought it all on yourselves. Karma's a bitch man.
UWS -- The reason that you are getting absolutely shit on is because you are libeling Palin with no proof whatsoever and assuming that she would blatantly lie to McCain and McCain's staff.
You deserve the vitriol because of the libel and because you are apparently too stupid to realize how foolishly false your libel is.
Love it. She's only been on the national scene for three days and already the Vince Foster-ish conspiracy theories abound.
Better watch out...chasing after Clinton conspiracies did nothing for the R's even if a few of them turned out to be true.
What, it's okay when staffers lie about shit like this, but not when people unconnected to the campaign do it? That's bullshit.
alex, host-with-the-most -- you really need to calm down, or stfu altogether -- you're not helping your own side of the argument with crude insults.
Peter -- Isn't it fair to say that it's wrong for anyone to make up lies about a candidate?
McMurray said...
How many times will Althouse come to Palin's defense in one day?
How many thousands of times did people come to Hillary Clinton's defense over the years? They were trying to defend the indefensible.
Yes, Seven. Making up rumors is wrong. Spreading lies is wrong. No matter who does it.
Everything is game. Parentage of Trig included. Maybe that's not the way it should be, but it's the way it is.
You report it first, you get the links and the buzz and the reputation... just ask Drudge! And if you don't do it somebody else will.
The real problem here is not with the deep-digging in newfound territory, but the idea that everyone in politics and business and what-have-you needs to be "perfect".
Here's something the anti-Palin's need to know.
You can complain all you want about the religious right. You can hate them and believe whatever you want. They are not worked up as much now on gay marriage as in 2004, but they were then and it worked to the Republican's advantage.
LISTEN CLOSELY:
In the last 20 years, there is no group - NONE - that when it finally gets awakened to anger, that shuts down more Congressional Phone Lines
or makes certain to get out the vote than the religious right. Many of them moved away from California to Texas, Idaho, and the South (which is part of why California is so fucked up financially right now).
But if you want to awaken that Sleeping Giant and insure in the next 10 days that Obama/Biden will lose by at least 4 percentage points come November, then please - - keep this line of rumor and "questions" going.
I've been defending basic human decency here so far, but I'm going to step back and let you do your best to get the religious right really fired up about this election.
Jesus. These are human beings, people. A 16-year-old girl. A 5-month-old baby, with disabilities, no less. A mother of five. Could we please, please, please, PLEASE try to recover some common sense and some compassion?
I'm guessing that that previously sleeping giant is already awake...
pasta,
Thanks, but when I "keep it real" I always notice that I embolden others.
So perhaps you can take this issue and stfu.
mrs whatsit said...
Jesus. These are human beings, people. A 16-year-old girl. A 5-month-old baby, with disabilities, no less. A mother of five. Could we please, please, please, PLEASE try to recover some common sense and some compassion?
8:52 PM
Not to the soulless ghouls of the left. Everything is fair game to them. They are evil and must be destroyed.
http://townhall.com/Columnists/MaryGrabar/2008/08/31/the_harpies_are_out_to_get_sarah_palin
good luck with that. /rollseyes
"and now I'm Keith Olbermann..."
No. Olbermann has a bit of charisma, and even he hasn't stooped quite this low.
Yet.
What, it's okay when staffers lie about shit like this, but not when people unconnected to the campaign do it? That's bullshit.
Peter, has anyone here ever defended what happened to John McCain in 2000? I missed it if they did, and I'd be interested in knowing who did and what their rationalization was.
Why don't you guys go burn an abortion clinic or something? Get that rage out.
Nobody must be destroyed. Alex, you sound as ridiculous as UWS.
Blogger UWS guy said...
good luck with that. /rollseyes
8:54 PM
Unrepentant to the end. Good luck with that. Karma's a bitch.
EVULV -- yes, we should tolerate little imperfections, like having bastard children with mistresses, becoming a target for blackmail, and then pursuing the most powerful position in the world.
Or pushing legislation to make it easier to bring lawsuits against employers for sexual harrasment, while phucking an intern in the Oval Office closet.
Just little imperfections like those.
UWS -- You can't suggest that someone's teenage daughter had a baby with a serious disease and that the mother is pretending that the baby is hers without catching a bunch of righteous shit.
The shocking fact that you don't understand this means that you must have no social intelligence whatsoever.
seven machos, I don't want them destroyed either -- these people are my siblings, my parents, most of my friends. But Christ, I didn't realize they were this far gone. Alex is right on one point at least: what the hell has happened to their souls?
I don't like how Andrew Sullivan claims that better vetting should have been done to clear up this rumor. Didn't McCain see Palin in Texas at the Governor's Association just before she gave birth? What more proof would he need? Andrew is just being evil, and not in a good way.
I'm unalarmed. Palin can take it. If she can't, tough.
Does anybody remember the media doing terrorism publicity for the terrorists in Iraq, for, what, four years?
There's no point to a terrorist attack if you can't get it on American TV, and it seems to be turning the public against the military efforts.
Even today nothing but terrorist attacks make the newscasts.
Why? It's not politics. It's the narrative demanded by the audience of the news media. A minority of the population decides everything, thanks to the media business model.
It doesn't matter how horrible it is, so long as it holds the interest of soap opera women.
Vaginagate is the same, but less damaging as it happens.
It's corporate profits and greed that are doing this, in particular the media's. You'd think that would affect the left, except that they depend on it.
"Alex is right on one point at least: what the hell has happened to their souls?"
That predisposes that they have a soul.
There is scant evidence on display of this.
rhhardin -- corporate profit and greed are what fuel the liberal media? Then why is the most successful news network FOX?
Andrew Sullivan: the McCain administration should have sat down and thought about all the wholly unsubstantiated rumors that I will think up.
enigmaticore, you're not kidding.
While I seriously doubt that life imitates Desperate Housewives, as we learned from Monicagate, it's not the crime, it's the coverup.
Why I doubt the Bree-baby subplot:
1. The photos don't prove anything. At six months' pregnant, a fit and trim cousin of mine barely looked like she had a carwax sponge under her shirt.
2. Boarding a plane to give birth in familiar surroundings, assisted by one's obgyn, surrounded by family and friends, sounds a hell of a lot better than delivering it on an emergency basis, out of town, among strangers.
After having four kids, a woman could be reasonably confident that she would have enough time to get back home before the baby popped out. The flight attendants wouldn't have noticed, because she probably had already tried to disguise her pregnancy, fearing the airline wouldn't let her on the plane going down.
3. The daughter's absence from school does not sound terribly significant. When my brother had mono, he was out of commission for months. He lay on the couch in front of the TV the whole time.
BUT, Palin did put her pregnancy in play as a point of contrast between her and Obama. Obama has been characterized as the pro-infanticide candidate because of his refusal to vote for the Illinois BAIPA -- which didn't pass till clauses d and e protecting women and their doctors were added, after he went to the Senate.
Palin is the "Right to Life" movement's poster mom, because she kept her Down syndrome fetus, even though mid-pregnancy diagnostic tests showed the fetus's affliction.
Now if she hadn't been tested because she hadn't been pregnant, she is a liar. Moreover, her Right to Life poster mom status goes "poof!"
And as Monicagate showed, America wants to know if their politicians have been caught lying -- even in the most personal and intimate moments of their family lives.
On the basis of no evidence whatsoever, they're not just attacking Sarah Palin, they're attacking her 16 year old daughter. Can you imagine being a 16 year old girl having to hear this shit?
These people have no shame. There is no limit to how low they will stoop to win. Obama and his supporters talk of a new kind of politics is just laughable.
Vicki Hearne somewhere deplores sex as peering at genitals; hoping instead for more of a general glance that takes in gender.
I think that's the woman's view.
For men, it's genitals that starts the ball rolling. Through a series of displacements the woman winds up in the end with what she wanted; the guy loves her and not her genitals.
A feminine disgust with the Palin probes is likely to be related. It seems to start wrong.
For guys it's more likely to be felt as a question you can ask, without themselves necessarily being inclined to ask or even be interested.
What's important to this guy is whether she can silence the media with a good line on any of a thousand things.
If the Democrats don't immediately cease with this, they will bury themselves on Election Day. Part of me wants them to continue so our victory will be bigger, part of me wants them to stop out of sake of human decency.
Andrew Sullivan:
"So please give us these answers - and provide medical records for Sarah Palin's pregnancy - and put this to rest."
For the first time in his life he's concerned with what goes in out of a vagina.
Andrew Sullivan: the McCain administration should have sat down and thought about all the wholly unsubstantiated rumors that I will think up.
(laugh). And I wonder what else Mr. Sullivan can think up!
I, for one, am stunned.
I just never would have guessed that Andrew Sullivan, the Andrew Sullivan, of all people, would ever have an interest in prying into vaginas.
It's as if he came out and then went back in and then came back out again but in a different way. Out.
And with a pry bar of all tools!
rhhardin,
Wrong, It's not the media that's commenting on the blogs. It's lying leftists and the people who will stand up to their bullshit.
That said, your explanation regarding the media is spot on.
Chris Rock on Black People vs. N****'s:
When I go to the ATM at night, I'm not lookin' over my shoulder for the media. I'm lookin' for n****'s!
I can't believe the ghouls on the left after all weird trippy Clinton conspiracy theories they floated about in the mainstream media, the attacks on Republicans as being nazi appeasing terrorist loving flag burning faggots, that would now stoop to this. Amazing!
Good point, MC! Yeah, Obamers, this is change we can believe in: charging governors with lying about their teenager daughter's pregnancy and dragging the poor kid through the mud. That's awesome, dudes. Way to unite!
Randy, re. 8:55 comment:
No, no one here has ever justified the McCain 2000 smear, but there has been a refusal to acknowledge it. Victoria finally did, and I thank her for that.
I'm tired of the partisanship that pretends that its side's shit doesn't stink.
A Downs baby is considerably more likely to come from 40 year old parents than 16 year old parents, just applying Bayes theorem to the matter. The odds do not favor the skeptics.
So let's take a gander at the left:
1. Michael Moore glad about Hurrican Gustav devastating NOLA to distrupt the RNC. (check)
2. Leftists propagating vicious rumors about Palin's last pregnancy. (check)
What next to expect I wonder?
There are effective political smears and ineffective ones.
As this one is one that will only serve to blacken those who make it, I urge them to continue.
I couldn't stay away. :((
Peter: You seem to be suggesting that you understand why one campaign is doing it, because look what the other guys did.
For the record, I condemn both, but I wasn't a part of either situation. This is what I mean about being an independent person. If I had seen those flyers of John McCain holding Bridget, with the slur about "black baby" I personally would've ripped them apart, and fired off a huge post about it (had I been blogging in 2000).
This is what any self-respecting human being would do, when faced with the peddling of dirty smears.
I think 7 Machos already answered for all of us who think this way when he replied.
Isn't it fair to say that it's wrong for anyone to make up lies about a candidate?
Exactly.
UWS: No one hates you, at least I don't. I confess though that I personally am starting to think you lack compassion when you suggest people can only have decency when you know them personally. What's all that about?
So you would spread rumours about me since you don't know me personally? Man, that is messed up.
Alex: Please forgive me, but you're sounding really extreme. I too want her and McCain to win, now quite a lot.
But fighting volcanic raging bile with volcanic ragig bile on a blog just earns you the moniker of looney tunes.
*breathe deep*
I'm not perfect people. None of us is. But whenever Obama is attacked in another blog, I actually come to his defense -- see LFG when a poster there called him a Communist.
Maybe like UWS, I have a bit of a contrarian in me, and don't like to see things go off-balance. It's the Aristotelian in us.
But in my case, I tend to DEFEND to make it balanced, whereas others ATTACK.
The scorched earth tactics of politics leaves me cold. Anyone else?
...well, let me try to get some rest. Tomorrow is a big day. To Beth and others in harms' way, be safe. Good luck. God bless.
Cheers,
Victoria
Wow Peter,
Maybe if you had started by saying that you were just doing a comparison of partisanship, we wouldn't have thought that you were in the no-level-of-morality-too-low-to-stoop-to group that keeps this thing alive.
Sigh. It's been widely reported that Palin knew about the Down's (when did it become Down?) during the pregnancy. Are we supposed to believe that they faked the amnio too and the doctors/nurses etc. are in on it?
Idiots.
I have no problem with the notion that Sarah Palin's vagina is hers alone and she can do with it as she wants.
But would those on the right agree with me that neither they nor Sarah Palin have any business telling other women what they can do with theirs?
I am reading rumors on the internet that Andrew Sullivan's medication is causing him to become prematurely senile and emotionally unbalanced. I think he needs to obtain an independent psychological/neuoralogical evaluation and post it on the internet before I will take anything he writes seriously.
I should point out that these smear/libel tactics are very similar to Stalin's NKVD or Hitler's Gestapo did to anyone they wanted to destroy. Nice going lefties.
I defend Peter: he is one of my favorite lefties, though we often disagree. He's been here long enough that he doesn't need to explain himself.
I hate to be the guy at the end of the bar defending the regulars, but there it is.
Seven, here's a quote that puts the depth of the vetting in perspective.
Former House Speaker Gail Phillips, a Republican political leader who has clashed with Palin in the past, was shocked when she heard the news Friday morning with her husband, Walt.
"I said to Walt, 'This can't be happening, because his advance team didn't come to Alaska to check her out," Phillips said.
Phillips has been active in the Ted Stevens re-election steering committee and remains in close touch with Sen. Lisa Murkowski and other party leaders, and she said nobody had heard anything about McCain's people doing research on his prospective running mate.
"We're not a very big state. People I talk to would have heard something."
Few wanted to talk about anything else on talk radio Friday. Conservative host Rick Rydell said there are some benefits to the state, but it's a gamble for McCain to pick an unknown with what he considered "questionable vetting."
Source: Anchorage Daily News.
Peter, it isn't that I pretend that my side's shit doesn't stink, it's that I don't consider the stinkin' shit to be on my side at all.
Sort of like I doubt you consider Michael Moore to be on your side. Am I right?
Victoria - actually I detest the politics of personal destruction more then anyone. But what's happened the last 2 days is beyond disgusting. I never thought the left could stoop so low. So I fight fire with fire. They send in the tanks, I deploy the nukes. The left escalated first.
Peter-
1)refer you again to the Washingron Post article regarding the LONG vetting process that went on without
2) the people who hate her, like Gail Phillips (why does she matter?) who is
3) involved with Ted Stevens, the indicted Senator that Palin had already determined was corrupt
Eli -- There are a number of laws that say what women can't do with their vaginas. You can't use them with an adult penis until you are 18 in many places, for example. You can't show them on the sidewalk. The list is long.
So, Eli, once again the pithy little phrase that sounds cute to you turns out to be shallow and meaningless when given two seconds of analysis.
You are welcome to try again, though.
MC@9:07: Rove attacked a 9 year old girl in 2000.
I have a great idea. Let's turn over all of the power of the government to people supported by people like this.
I mean, what could possibly go wrong?
Kos and Excitable Andy are now the same.
Are we supposed to believe that they faked the amnio too and the doctors/nurses etc. are in on it?
Jim is exactly right. This is like the right's "Michelle Obama Hates Whitey" tape, hardly worth distinguishing with a response.
look at the video offered as evidence. She looks pregnant to me. There is also a wide range of how women carry at 7 months.
Do a google image search of "seven months pregnant" and you'll see a wide (pardon the expression) range.
Blogger peter hoh said...
MC@9:07: Rove attacked a 9 year old girl in 2000.
9:19 PM
I never supported any of Bush's smear tactics against McCain. However, Bush v Gore is a case of the lesser or 2 evils.
Wow less than 60 hours after the Palin announcement, a regular, Sullivan, on the Sunday morning talk shows plays a role in spreading an unsubstantiated and ugly story. Has to be a new world's record even against a Republican candidate.
Can't wait til Matthews asks Sullivan about this on his Sunday show.
And the MSM wonders why its approval (trustworthiness) rating is even lower than George Bush.
This has to be the stupidest rumor ever mongered about a politician. First of all, there is zero evidence. She flew back to Alaska and her daughter missed school (which, by the way, I have no reason to believe, given the other misstatements I've seen made about Governor Palin by Obama supporters). That is not evidence; it does not make the proffered conclusion more likely to be true.
But that's not why it's stupid; that's just why its scurrilous. It's stupid because, if it were true, it would be a better story: She so believes in the sanctity of life that she supported her daughter in bringing the pregnancy to term and is now raising her grandchild as her own son.
If true, this would make her more popular with the Republican base and undecideds.
some more ghouls:
http://www.politicalbase.com/profile/Mark%20Nickolas/blog/&blogId=3427
Enigmaticore:
Excellent!
Ann just added:
Well, Sarah, I'm calling you a liar. And not even a good one. Trig Paxson Van Palin is not your son. He is your grandson. The sooner you come forward with this revelation to the public, the better.
Wow - this really approaches mental illness.
At least 9/11 troofer territory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDcFS7vj_Mg
A Downs baby is considerably more likely to come from 40 year old parents than 16 year old parents, just applying Bayes theorem to the matter. The odds do not favor the skeptics.
Indeed.
I'm starting to think this might be self-inflicted rope-a-dope by the left.
Randy -- is that meant as an insult or a challenge?
attacking a 16-year-old girl
Spare me the ``for the children'' meme.
It will toughen her up.
The left is hoping that the right will care about something they hope to make stick, is all. They're alarmed about the greeting Palin got in Dayton.
The right that would care about what the left digs up is pretty minimal in size.
So it's wasted effort.
Now, I've known liars in my life. Their single core problem is not with themselves, but those around them. If they're never called out on their twisting of truths and fabrications, they simply continue to make larger lies.
Has it crossed peoples minds that perhaps Sarah sought to downplay the pregnancy as a gesture to mean this is not tragic, this is private. period the end.
It's called putting yourself in other peoples shoes?
Oh wait - they are expensive shoes, so maybe I can't. ;)
This thread is moving too fast for me to keep my responses near that which I am responding to.
Seven, thanks for the kind words.
Meade, yes, I don't consider Moore to be on my side. I don't always have one side, anyway. My first vote for a US Senator was for Millicent Fennwick, and I have an unyielding hatred of Frank Lautenberg because of the way he smeared her. It takes no effort to convince me that Democrats will use sexist, misogynist tactics.
I have been critical of these questions since they started being raised, but I'm not the liberal pope.
Victoria, it was never my intent to justify these charges on the basis of the Rove smears on Bridget McCain in 2000. Just trying to put some perspective on it. These things have happened before.
With the Bridget smears, there wasn't much of a reaction on the right. There was a snicker, snicker, "that's politics for you" response.
Have we consulted either Mickey Kaus or the National Enquirer about the matter?
I think the question itself is fair game -- if it turned out that Sarah was not Trig's mother, that means she is a liar who was willing to lie for political gain, pure and simple. But both the perpetuation of this conspiracy theory without evidence and the general tone of her attackers is disgusting.
PETER: Oh, I see. I rather doubt anyone here can deny that happens based only on some of the right-wing oddballs that pass through here from time to time.
At the same time, I find what Andrew Sullivan is obviously encouraging at the moment to be particularly despicable. Then again, I rarely read Sullivan any more. As you do, perhaps you would know better. If Sullivan was spreading this story on the Sunday morning shows, I hope someone had the decency to tell him to shove it up his ass sideways.
MACHO: Sorry about removing this post after your reply. I left a couple of words out so I thought I'd edit before anyone saw it and then the computer froze)
"Have we consulted either Mickey Kaus or the National Enquirer about the matter?"
The Enquirer wouldn't touch crap like this.
I suspect that this story will never fade among conspiracy minded fellows. It will be one more theory tacked on to the list: fake moon landing, 9/11 was an inside job, Kennedy wasn’t killed by the communist Oswald, and the latest one - Palin faked a pregnancy.
Sure, it is possible, but very, very unlikely. It is also possible for me to win the lottery next week, but I wouldn’t bet a cup of coffee on it.
Sadly, no amount of evidence will ever be enough to change the mind of conspiracy theorists. They will continue to believe regardless of the facts. Nothing has dissuaded their beliefs in the other theories listed above, why should this one be any different?
peter hoh: "Rove attacked a 9 year old girl in 2000."
And everyone loves Rove, right? So what, was the left so impressed by that they just couldn't wait to give it a go? Mmmm, Changey.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKwZNwdowa4&feature=related
Oops! Seven --- on the rewrite I eliminated my reply to your question! Anyway, it was meant as an insult but I'm not so sure he might enjoy, so I guess I should withdraw that and just say I hope someone had the decency to say STFU.
I think the question itself is fair game -- if it turned out that Sarah was not Trig's mother, that means she is a liar who was willing to lie for political gain, pure and simple.
If Sarah can be that prescient I will definitely vote for her.
"The Enquirer wouldn't touch crap like this."
Libel?
Randy, the stuff they say at LGF doesn't stick to McCain, does it? Why should the stuff they say at Kos stick to Obama?
Look, if I didn't say it clearly enough, Sullivan and Kos and the likes are idiots and assholes for running and/or not squelching this as soon as it started to appear.
FWIW, Sullivan did not mention this until 6:30 this evening (eastern time, I assume). Immediately, some of his readers took him to task for it.
"I think the question itself is fair game"
I think the question of if you have impregnated a 12 year old is fair game. If it turns out you have, you are a child rapist, pure and simple.
Welcome to politics, everyone.
Relax.
Benjamin- The Kos post lays out a pretty good case. It's not "without evidence".
ALSO:
Ann showed her blogging genius for the way she handled this thread. She calls the issue "despicable, sexist trash" and "shameful" in her post. Then she provides a forum to go on with it, even delving into it herself with a further update.
It might be "despicable sexist trash" and "shameful"... but nobody can resist it either!!!
"Look, if I didn't say it clearly enough, Sullivan and Kos and the likes are idiots and assholes for running and/or not squelching this as soon as it started to appear."
Peter, thank you. If only wingnuts on both sides, to the left and to the right, would follow your lead.
God this is getting sick but i am going to be intererested to see how Palin handles all this. They have to know the blogosphere is boiling over with all this crap. And she seems like the type that will come out like a mother bear..in full attack to protect her cubs. How she responds may speak volumes about who she really is...and at the same time...send shock waves across the left as they wind up sinking Obama.
I was pressed for time.
I didn’t have time to read my way from the top of this comment thread all the way to the bottom.
So I thought I’d try something new.
(Hope that’s okay.)
I held my open palm in front of the computer screen and scrolled my way all the way down, bit by bit.
I let myself feeeee eee ee e eee eel the flow of the comments.
There was much emotion.
There were many colors and pulsations and throbs and cuts.
I felt it all.
And afterwards . . . I was exhausted and I ended up looking like this.
Anybody cured?
No?
Oh, well.
KTHANXBAI!!1!!1!!!
As the father of 2 daughters I musy say that I am stunned by this development. Sullivan, a mainstream lefty asociated with big media suggests that private medical records be released to prove that the mother and not her 16 year old gave birth to a special needs child ("this can easily be disproved")? Can this really be happening?
If someone attemped to besmirch the honor of my family this way I would offer a corrective that would most certainly leave a mark.
Excuse me while I get my credit card out and visit the McCain site.
I am energized for the first time in this campaign season.
"The Kos post lays out a pretty good case. It's not "without evidence"."
It is without evidence, and the Kos post lays out nothing approaching a good case.
You people really need help.
MC: Rove was part of the campaign! Do you not see the difference?
If Axlerod was behind these Palin rumors, I will renounce Obama and vote a straight GOP ticket in November.
As all of the comments are beginning to sound reasonable now, my work here is done.
Good Night!
Don't look at these pictures because Sarah Palin is definitely not pregnant here. Let's not let reality get in the way of sick, base-minded partisan attacks!
RealClearPolitics MOBILE
MCCAIN-PALIN '08
>Palin Wipes Out Obama Bounce
>Gustav Wipes Out GOP Opener
>Palin Baby Rumor Wipes Out Andrew Sullivan's Brain
It's not "without evidence".
The best case evidence are medical records - do you have them?
Wow, this little Gal is more articulate than Joe Biden and Hillary combined !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-eH2Uw9UmE
I was wondering how many women voters would really be pried away from Obama by the Palin choice; since she is, after all, pro-life.
But if this sort of crap keeps up, I can see a decent percentage of PUMAs coming over to McCain-Palin.
Karl Rove, you magnificent bastard. You're behind this, aren't you?
p bain, Thanks.
Ann, you should add the links to those pictures, if you really want to knock some sense into them.
Or, alternately, you can let them expose themselves to everyone so that the whole world can learn to ignore them.
Either way works.
Thanks, Peter. I wasn't asking you to apologize for Kos or Sullivan. I know you well enough after all this time. I avoid patronizing Sullivan's site when at all possible, but I know you do so I was wondering if this had become his common practice. I read the other Atlantic contributors and was reminded of the most recent post by Jeffrey Goldberg when this post here came up.
Host with the most: "my work is done here"
brow beating other posters? You should have stopped posting after breaking Godwin's Law.
I still don't understand how Edwards =/= Palin?
Ann, if you post these photos in a post entitled PIX PROVE PALIN PREGNANT, it ought to be good for 10,000 or so hits, at least!!!
"...why would she be wearing tight clothes and standing in proud half-profile? I apologize for asking that question..."
Apology accepted.
Thanks, P Bain! That last one was the page I saw but couldn't remember where I saw it and couldn't find it when I went looking for it. How I ended up there in the first place, I have no idea. LOL!
It's sexist to talk about a woman's baby, but not a man's...or something.
The talking points are not working
a quick huddle is in order.
A quick catwalk to Koos perhaps?
UWS guy -- there was ample evidence for Edwards having an affair -- and it was boycotted by the press. And it turned out to be true.
3 differences right there: No real evidence; the press will be all over this, so the damage will be done whether it's true or not; and it's not, as anyone who's not a total idiot would realize after 3 minutes of thought. Look at the photos. Think about all the people (doctors, etc) that would have to be in on the conspiracy, and for what gain?
Peter -- Are you certain that Rove was the person behind the rumors? You are pretty reliable but a link would be appreciated.
And let's not get in a lovefest here. You are wrong a lot. ;]
You have a point with that pastafarian...but evidence or not...having evidence doesn't make it "not sexist" or "sexist"
Edwards isn't sexist because it's true...Palin's "is" sexist...because it's not true?
So if it turns out to be true, would it cease to be sexist? Can opposition slime a female candidate and NOT be sexist? (hillary say's, "no".)
Sorry that I am late to this thread since I was at the pool enjoying myself like most of America on a Sunday afternoon.
So this thread and the one from yesterday really, really shocks me.
UWS guy, my interactions with you have always been fun. I don't hold much sacred in this world and love to bust balls with the best of them. And I love to tease and stir the shit. But sometimes it's beyond the pale. Really. I always thought you to be a decent kinda guy. But claiming to be the devils advocate in this case doesn't cut it here. To me anyway. I don't know Sarah Palin. I don’t much like any politicians. But I would feel the same if you talked this way about Nancy Pelosi or Barbara Boxer or Cynthia Mckinney. And their retarded kid. And their sixteen year old daughter some things are not right. Some things are not decent. To facilitate this kind of bullshit is just wrong man. I thought better of you. I hope I was not wrong.
I ask you to rethink your approach in this matter. Sincerely.
No real evidence; the press will be all over this, so the damage will be done whether it's true or not; and it's not, as anyone who's not a total idiot would realize after 3 minutes of thought.
Physician heal thyself! as opposed to interview thyself?
uws guy -- I'll grant you that point. Althouse will have to explain why this attack is sexist. She'll probably have a good explanation that I can't think of.
I'll just say that this attack is loathsome.
Awwwwww!
Just one last check after brushing the teeth and putting on the run-over bunny slippers:
brow beating other posters?
Well, hell yes, if they go so low that descend into libel or conspiracy without evidence AND persist in a high-minded, offensive way towards everyone else.
Brow Beating Other Posters.
I kinda like the sound of that. Kinda like "Sheriff of this here wild west town"
Thank you. (Blush)
Good Night. Really. Next Brow Beater check in: 5 am Pacific.
I always argue to my wife who has a great job that sexism in this country is dead. Get over it.
However, the fact that these Palin threads fill up the way they do, and the strange way they fill up make me question this belief.
To all the Sara Palin supporters here lemmee just say relax. This is proof positive that we're winning. Adding to the winning, the normal folks out there are and will be revulsed by this attack on the daughter, Sara, and this family. The losing will only accelerate.
No real evidence; the press will be all over this, so the damage will be done whether it's true or not; and it's not, as anyone who's not a total idiot would realize after 3 minutes of thought.
Upon further reading, I believe I may have friendly fired ;)
. . . and Happy Labor Day, Everyone.
Including UWS, Peter, and all other brow beatens.
Seven -- there's no way that sexism is dead in this country. But I think that the Palin vice presidency will really move us in that direction; and if she ever becomes POTUS, I hope to watch her oath-of-office with my two daughters.
"Althouse will have to explain why this attack is sexist"
How about me instead.
It is sexist because it would never, ever be levied against a male politician.
And not just because Palin is the mother. Imagine the same exact circumstances, except rather than it being a female, it being a male candidate who's wife had given birth to a Down Syndrome child.
There is ZERO chance that the same allegation would be made, that the male politician had engineered a coverup where his daughter had given birth but they claimed it was his wife's.
That is why it is sexist. It is attacking her motherhood because they find it dangerous.
God this is getting sick but i am going to be intererested to see how Palin handles all this.
I'm actually more interested in seeing how Todd Palin handles this smear of his wife, oldest daughter and youngest child.
I'm thinking a punch in the face and a kick in the nuts would be in order.
I wonder what other demented and disgusting ideas the left can come up with. Ooooooh I know. The baby is really Track's with his own sister and that's why he is being sent to Iraq. Can this get any more sickening? I'm afraid it can.
However, as I said in a previous thread....just keep it up you leftist moonbats. The American public is not being swayed to your side by these tactics. Keep it up.
UWS guy (and others). Former law student picked up my comment above, but others are still obsessing with photos and debates about the distribution of teenage body fat.
The obvious counter to this vile and stupid smear is in Trig's Down syndrome, stupid. Prenatal diagnosis involves amniocentesis. For Palin not to be the mother would require her to either have a leak-proof cabal of doctors, nurses, techs etc, or to have somehow guided the ultrasound and the amnio needle into her daughter's womb undetected.
This is a conspiracy theory so dumb that it makes the 9/11 truthers look like rocket scientists.
Lem -- sorry, when I try to comment fast, my writing is even less clear than usual.
Why I doubt the Bree-baby subplot (continued):
4. Why would a woman trying to conceal her daughter's pregnancy lie about having amniotic fluid leakage, raising the whole line of questioning about (a) not going to a Houston emergency room right away, and (b) bypassing Anchorage hospitals for her own home hospital and obgyn?
Bottom line: Mrs. Palin's story about her flight home cuts in favor of her being pregnant, because it raises questions.
Townhall points out the kos pics of her daughter with the belly bump were from 2006
http://townhall.com/blog/g/9b3375c7-6a27-4b5e-9204-b267282a1ce1
The lefty bloggers really are sick sad people.
The left should keep it up. This kind of stuff will only motivate conservatives to volunteer come this October.
The one thing Bush had going for him in 2004 was the great ground game. Conservatives have been cool about McCain and the ground game was suspect. Palin has changed all that. Viscious attacks on Palin will only make McCain's ground game better.
This is proof positive that we're winning. Adding to the winning, the normal folks out there are and will be revulsed by this attack on the daughter, Sara, and this family. The losing will only accelerate.
semper fi?
Id yourself - to the extent possible.
UWS Guy ....
Your problem remains.
For whatever reason you seem to have a deep desire to find something on Palin.
Fine. She is an adult woman who chose her path and should be able to take it.
Why you think it is fair to drag her children into this conspiracy of yours is beyond me, however.
Fine. Don't like her. Don't vote for her.
But if you chose to drag a 16 years old who you have no evidence has done anything whatsoever wrong into this discussion, be prepared to get called on it.
YOU chose to raise the issue, but you are whining about the response.
Palin's daughter didn't get to make the choice that you did.
She's the one being victimized, not you.
maxine weiss said...
"Wow, this little Gal is more articulate than Joe Biden and Hillary combined !"
Yeah. Plus, she's cleaner.
enigmaticore -- I guess I see your point; but I don't know that this charge would absolutely never be levied at a man. Suppose a male pro-life candidate had chosen, with his wife, to bring a Downs baby to term. Might they still have tried to trot this sort of ugly accusation out there, in order to undercut the candidate's lack of hypocrisy on abortion?
Is it her motherhood that threatens them, or her righteousness?
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