"... I would never have expected this from him. He surprised us all - we all envy him!"
So said Vladimir Putin, who -- we're told -- was joking and didn't mean to be overheard. Plus, you're reading a translation, and Russian is a subtle language, "very sensitive from the point of view of phrasing."
October 20, 2006
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19 comments:
Sounds like a hit piece by the BBC. I would believe Putin before the BBC any day.
The BBC has no credibility they are a leftist anti-american outfit.
If you need to explain the joke, you shouldn't be making it in the first place.
The BBC makes the Democratic party look like honest Abe.
Kremlin spokesman Dmitri Peskov admitted: "Yes really, these words were pronounced."
Well, they (the Kremlin) are admitting it was said, Sloanasaurus & Fenrisulven. You know, even the BBC gets things right from time to time.
MM wrote: If you need to explain the joke, you shouldn't be making it in the first place.
Context is everything with humor. If I described an interview with a word association test wherein a white interviewer kept using racial epitaths in front of a black man, you would be offended that such a thing happened. However, in a different context, in might be hysterically funny.
Lacking any kind of context, or any knowledge of the russian language, I would be hesitant to make any judgements about Putin's comments. It certainly sounds crude and in poor taste, but then most commedians make their fortunes in that manner.
Sloan:
Uh, Putin is Russian, not American. So, the anti-American bias that you identify in the BBC's news department is irrelevant to this issue.
And you find a former KGB agent who can't seem to work up any enthusiasm for democracy more credible than the BBC? Regarding a rape joke that Putin doesn't deny he made?
What I found interesting about the BBC article is that Putin is pictured not with Katsav, but with Israeli PM Ehud Olmert.
Mark Daniels
BBC or not, shouldn't this be something that everyone should condemn without reservation? I mean, really...
Altoids is right. Something about not seeing the forest for the trees.
X
Uh, Putin is Russian, not American. So, the anti-American bias that you identify in the BBC's news department is irrelevant to this issue.
Duh!
However, the fact that the BBC is an anti-american bias leftist outfit is without question.
I would believe Putin before the BBC any day.
At least the BBC hasn't had any journalists assassinated lately.
Personally, my favorite epitaph, icepick, is:
Here lies Lester Moore.
Shoot to death with a .44.
No Les,
No More.
I suspect even some Black guys might find that a funny epitaph.
What former KGB boss wouldn't be mortified and on his way to therapy what with American intellectuals on his back? I see by the paper that Russia has suspended a whole slough of human rights groups. The headline says Russian law suspended their activities. Look out suspected Chechnyan terrorists! You'll wish you were in Abu Ghraib wearing women's underwear on your head once Ivan and his lads start questioning you now! I don't see a call for any petitions to be signed showing solidarity and moral disgust on our part....
At least the BBC hasn't had any journalists assassinated lately.
But Elizabeth, do you KNOW that the BBC didn't have them killed instead, and just blamed it on Putin?
Jorg, you're right, I screwed that up. But what word was I looking for? Too many spreadsheets destroy the mind, I tihnk....
There are currently 602 articles about the Putin story indexed under Google news.
But, sure, this is some sort of "lefty" conspiracy.
I am with altoids 100%, and I am intrigued again at the use of deflection on this to avoid discussing the issue. Was Putin's joke reprehensible, or not?
I say yes, by the way. If the charges against the Israeli president are true, people should be speaking up for the victims and not telling lame jokes.
To Mark Daniels:
The reason Putin was pictured with Olmert and not Katsav is because he was having a meeting with Olmert
at the time and directing his humor to him.
Alcibiades:
You're right. My bad.
Mark
Yes, but perhaps the "humor" is in the idea that raping 10 women -- and the tone might have suggested at once -- is a very difficult task, and the guy they were talking about is not particularly known for his masculinity or strength or virility and in fact is known to be a mild-mannered wimp.
But Elizabeth, do you KNOW that the BBC didn't have them killed instead, and just blamed it on Putin?
Icepick, that sounds like an MI-5 (Spooks in UK) plot.
Daryl has it: "The meaning of the joke, if it was a joke, is irony. He is saying one thing (Katsav is a mighty man) while undermining it with a contrary statement (Katsav is a serial rapist)."
I might not joke about that subject but it's definately the sort of humor common to the community in which I was born. That and practical jokes set up and carried out over long periods of time, even years.
Hypermasculinity doesn't admire rape any more than it admires paying for a prostitute because either thing means that the man is not man enough to seduce a woman. (Try to imagine a man *bragging* that he'd paid for sex.)
Mortimer: "...and the guy they were talking about is not particularly known for his masculinity or strength or virility and in fact is known to be a mild-mannered wimp."
In which case it may be a rather cruel joke, or it may simply be that the idea of a man known for being mild-mannered, raping 10 women is a silly juxtaposition of conflicting mental images.
Here's a joke... told way to short to be funny at all because it lacks set up (plus you *had* to be there). An American officer delivered the expected celebratory sheep to his Iraqi counterpart and told the translator to explain that "It was to eat. Not for a girl-friend." All underlings are certain that this is going to be very very bad and the translator wants to refuse to do it, but he does. The officers, of course, both think it's the best joke ever and relations are improved by the demonstration that they can joke together.
I'm not saying that's Putin, too. I'm just saying that for the vast majority of non-punchline humor, you really do have to be there. If we can't joke, particularly about the painful things, our future is really going to suck.
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