Some officers officially told their superiors they were leaving, police officials said. Others worked for a while and then stopped showing up. Still others, for reasons not always clear, never made it in after the storm.
From the Superintendent of Police Eddie Compass:
"If I put you out on the street and made you get into gun battles all day with no place to urinate and no place to defecate, I don't think you would be too happy either... Our vehicles can't get any gas. The water in the street is contaminated. My officers are walking around in wet shoes."
Would the NY Police have reacted to adversity that way? Think what they did after 9/11.
IN THE COMMENTS: I want to quote something I wrote in there:
Let me just say that I think my post is too harsh. I understand the pressure these people face. I doubt that I would do better. But I wish there were more stories of heroics after Katrina. I keep thinking of 9/11 because there were so many positive stories to counterweight the horrible then. 9/11 was a story of great evil and great good in human beings. Katrina is more of a story of ordinary things: nature and imperfect people.
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৩৩টি মন্তব্য:
How you do you "laissez les bontemps roulez" and be a cop? Maybe that is at the root of all this.
Ann, with all due respect, will you just cut it out with these comparisons to 9/11 cops? Like I said before, flood 80% of NYC with water, make it impossible for significant amounts of relief to come in promptly, deprive them of food, water, or evne solid ground to stand on, have random thugs shooting at you, and then let's see what those New Yorkers would do.
Yes, New York's finest conducted themselves honorably and heroically. But this is just not the same situation. It's frankly worse, in many real and practical ways. And you're just beating a dead horse with this stuff. And for all of the people who are cracking under the increased pressure, there are countless others that you and I aren't hearing about who are conducting themselves with true honor and heroism.
Isn't New Orleans well known for its underpaid and corrupt police?
Think back to the stories about Iraqi police fleeing in the face of an attack by fanatical terrorists. It makes our guys look like total cowards.
Oh, and let's add this to the mix: let's completely destroy the NYC cops' homes while we're at it, and put their families and loved ones in mortal danger.
The story as reported in the NYT gives perspective on how absolutely devastating this disaster is.
Why should anyone take it as anything but news? Why should it be politicized? Those New Orleans policemen who performed their duties in the face of this awful event deserve our esteem for their courage. Those who did not deserve our sympathy and support unless their failure to do so was because of their cowardice or venality. Somehow I suspect that cowardice and venality were the exception. I, for one, and willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the contrary is proven.
Jim Rhoads (vnjagvet)
I'm not sure I understand the idea that if a building falls on you its understandable to keep working, but if your feet get wet then you stop. If the NOPD are typical then very few live in the city where they work. Most will live in the suburbs away from the citizens that they are supposed to protect.
I'm not sure I understand the idea that if a building falls on you its understandable to keep working, but if your feet get wet then you stop.
Perhaps because those incredible heroes of New York City did not know the building was going to fall on them.
"Feet get wet?" You're not even trying to be serious.
Looking to the future (some are tired of Bush Bashing and blaming)...so we should speculate in different areas..
It will be an interesting process to see how New Orleans is "reconstituted." How many major cities actually get a second chance to be rebuilt? This is a once in a hundred year opportunity. If people are not allowed to live there for a year, think of all the corruption rings, drug areas, criminal gangs that will all be gone momentarily when the city starts running again. Think of all the dilapidated schools and buildings and neighborhoods that are going to be rebuilt.
Perhaps the real blunder of the great flood will be made a year from now.... if New Orleans becomes again the cestpool it once was.
I've never felt libearls were justified in calling us pro-Iraq types "chickenhakws". I must now concede that in the sake of fairness, I can understand where the urge to use that term comes from. Because I feel it welling up in me now in response to some of this garbage.
Rehnquist is dead.
Rehnquist is dead.
God rest his weary soul.
mcg: With all due respect,
What else do you compare Hurricane Katrina catastrophe to?
To help our psychology we try to compare catastrophes to other catastrophes.
In recent history 9/11 is probably the only comparable catastrophe that has gotten similar press.
What could be compared to New Orleans? I can't think of anything myself.
Also, CNN makes reference to New Orleans being 'perhaps' the worst catastrophe in US history. Which other disaster in US history comes anywhere close to this?
A couple of notes:
New Orleans has a residency requirement; most NOPD live in the city. Some do live in the suburbs--which also flooded, and are in distress--due to "grandfather" clauses predating the residency rule.
mcg is right; 9/11 was contained, while this event is unimaginably vast.
Sloan, the entire department is not corrupt, despite what you assume is "well-known." The corruption peaked in the early 1990s, and since then there have been big changes. It is however understaffed (due to the residency requirement!) and underpaid, so yes, there are surely some corrupt cops. But the vast majority of NOPD spend day in and day out working hard to protect the city. It's certainly unfair to toss out that generalization.
I assume that like anyone in the city, the cops are shellshocked. It's becoming apparent that people at the heart of a catastrophe need help from outside to cope with it. The cops, the firefighters, they're all in two roles, as victims of the disaster, and as first-responders, and in this case with flooded vehicles and stations and without means of communication. What a nightmare.
k--Let the good times roll? Are you kidding?
Monty, I have no problem comparing 9/11 with Katrina: Katrina is worse. By a large margin.
My problem is with the callous and disparaging comments directed towards people who may very well have run out of courage---but only in the face of more dire circumstances than any of us (God willing) will ever face, and in many ways more difficult than the situation the NYC heroes faced.
So can we please just cut the crap and focus on what we can do to help these folks? Those of us who are unable or unwilling to help physically, myself included, let's donate. And let's honor and revere those who are serving with their bodies. And let's show the folks who fled in the face of incredible personal destruction and hardship a little mercy.
Let me just say that I think my post is too harsh. I understand the pressure these people face. I doubt that I would do better. But I wish there were more stories of heroics after Katrina. I keep thinking of 9/11 because there were so many positive stories to counterweight the horrible then. 9/11 was a story of great evil and great good in human beings. Katrina is more of a story of ordinary things: nature and imperfect people.
If the NYC cops were on their own for a week, they might do the same. NO had no plan for them, either. I agree with Elizabeth it was tragedy waiting to happen.
I saw footage of a police station renamed Fort Apache a small band of NOPD officers were trying to hold onto. Literally. Officers were sobbing and screaming on camera about those who never reported for duty and abandoned them and the city. Sniper/thugs were firing at them every time they showed their faces.
I've heard a couple sheriffs were killed, and Arthel Neville said her cousin saw a guy shoot a Guardsman. It was hell on earth.
Let me just say that I think my post is too harsh.
Thank you, thank you! Genuinely.
I understand the pressure these people face. I doubt that I would do better.
Nor i.
But I wish there were more stories of heroics after Katrina. I keep thinking of 9/11 because there were so many positive stories to counterweight the horrible then.
Yes, yes! Agree 100%.
9/11 was a story of great evil and great good in human beings. Katrina is more of a story of ordinary things: nature and imperfect people.
This is such a relevant point. I have been struggling to put into words this important distinction. When 9/11 happened, we were fighting something. You don't fight acts of God; you find your way through them.
Brendan, my love, that was beautiful. Your article, which I really can't even tell if is an article in its entirety or if some of that offensive blabbering was your own, was all kinds of relevant for a paragraph or two, but then it degraded into a KKK meeting opening thoughts discussion. I love phrases like "above average African Americans." Even more so than that, though, is my love for anyone who would post that trash as being a justifiable or useful article. Brava!
ploopusgirl--
Do you have any evidence to the contrary of what Brandon posted? I am not saying that it's necessarily true. But, what if the claims made in his post are correct? Do you have any evidence to suggest otherwise? Why is it reminiscent of the KKK to suggest that some city's black population has below the average black intelligence? Certainly, we do know that the black population in New Orleans was more likely to be on welfare or live in public housing than blacks in general. Again, Steve Sailer is a rather suspect source. But do you have concrete evidence to show that he is wrong?
Richard: Thanks for your confidence. In fact, I can't picture myself doing the job in the first place. I'd like to think that if it was the sort of thing I could do in the first place, I'd be brave under fire. I've never had to do anything like that, however, so it's just an idea. It's good to be courageous, bad to be cowardly.
Ann--
But I wish there were more stories of heroics after Katrina. I keep thinking of 9/11 because there were so many positive stories to counterweight the horrible then.
Perhaps I'm being too optimistic, but I think there are heroic stories, and they will be told. It isn't, after all, "after Katrina" yet. I think the story of the 20-year-old guy taking the wheel of a parked bus, loading it with everyone he could find and heading for Houston is a heroic story. I'm certain we'll hear stories of neighbors and strangers helping others in need as time passes and the tales get out.
There are far too many differences between Katrina and 9/11 to make valid comparisons.
"...Also, CNN makes reference to New Orleans being 'perhaps' the worst catastrophe in US history. Which other disaster in US history comes anywhere close to this?..."
I think journalists would like to think so as they are covering it. Its only American to be the biggest and the best.
The largest natural disaster was probably the 1918 flu epidemic. In the month of October, 1918 alone more than 180,000 perished from the flu.
Elizabeth, I didn't say the entire department was corrupt. I said that N.O. is well known for having a lot of corruption problems. I think that is true.
Ann, there's a story of heroism for you here. Read about 18-year-old Jabbor Gibson, who is a hero in my book even though he may face criminal charges for his actions. (Amazingly enough, even the article I have linked characterizes his action as "an extreme act of looting.") Here's an excerpt:
' "If it werent for him right there," he said, "we'd still be in New Orleans underwater. He got the bus for us."
Eighteen-year-old Jabbor Gibson jumped aboard the bus as it sat abandoned on a street in New Orleans
and took control.
"I just took the bus and drove all the way here...seven hours straight,' Gibson admitted. "I hadn't ever drove a bus."
The teen packed it full of complete strangers and drove to Houston. He beat thousands of evacuees slated to arrive there. . . .
Authorities eventually allowed the renegade passengers inside the dome. But the 18-year-old who ensured their safety could find himself in a world of trouble for stealing the school bus.
"I dont care if I get blamed for it," Gibson said, "as long as I saved my people." '
Well, I see that my clumsy attempt to post a URL didn't work. Sorry! I'll cut and paste this time, but I'm guessing that probably won't work very well either. In any case, running the boy's name in "Google News" will lead you to at least one story about him.
http://www.newschannel5.tv/2005/9/1/4255/Taking-refuge-in-the-Astrodome
The lesson here is that large disasters can overwhelm, almost completely, the ability to local government to respond when the police and other governmental employees are themselves victims. Good training, planning, and leadership will always help maintain effectiveness. If there is no cohesion to the local effort, it's human nature that some officers will evaluate whether they are making a difference and might be better off looking after themselves. But substantial outside help is needed fast for these "super-disasters," regardless of local effectiveness, to stave off despair.
There will be a lot for the emergency agencies to learn from this episode in their planning for a flu pandemic, massive terrorist strike, or another extreme national disaster.
BTW, I saw an article, I think it was on NOLA, Friday night that said there was attrition with the LA State Police too, not just the NOPD.
And for those here suggesting that this is a problem unique to the New Orleans PD, please read the following story from Mississippi before casting more aspersions.
Key quote: "The city's police force, about 195 strong, has dwindled since the storm, with an undetermined number affected by the same devastation as the residents they're sworn to serve and protect."
This is a general problem with very massive disasters, not just a New Orleans problem. How to get more National Guard to disaster areas sooner will surely be examined in the aftermath.
Elizabeth-You are absolutely correct, I was operating on faulty information regarding residency requirements. As to NY didn't all the rescue services run into the buildings, not away. Don't we expect the police, fire and similar services to stay on the job, not to be excused for the duration because of the stress.
Comparisons are very useful to gain perspective on where things are headed. However, for me, 9/11 is a poor comparison in the large sense for Katrina. Response-wise a huge and critical differentiator is the fact that 9/11 came with essentially no warning - unlike Katrina. The type and physical scope of devastation, the ability to bring wheeled vehicles to the disaster scene, the ramifications for the world... 9/11 holds little basis for comparison, and I think it is a disservice - in the big sense - to both situations to make comparisons.
Beyond the micro level where the actions of one human being (or small group of human beings) actions can be compared to anothers in difficult situations, Hurricane Ivan or one of the other recent hurricane recovery efforts are really what should be used as comparison. Even the current recovery efforts in the other states hit by Katrina are better if the exercise is to better understand what happened and is happening in New Orleans.
Having said all that I see one very important micro level comparison between NO and NYC in their times of trial - the clear and obvious lack of leadership (call it the Guliani-factor) that is missing in NO and LA in general. And as someone who has been through levee break flood events here in Norther California, that leadership is essential to the effective response and recovery from such an event.
Regarding the NOPD, as they are *local* resources who are not immune to the effects of the disaster (they are not allowed to evacuate), there are severe limitations on what they as post-event resources can accomplish. This fact is probably covered in the city, parrish, and state DRPs (Disaster Response Plans), but whatever mitigating actions may exist in those plans do not seem to have been executed, or if they were, were not well devised.
Maintaining order is the most important single aspect of disaster recovery is accomplished (simplistically), by having the National Guard - which is under direct control of the Governor - standing off just outsided the area of devastation ready to deploy into that area as soon as physically possible to augment the NOPD and any other PDs in similar straits.
Also, as mentioned above, the inability to access devastated areas by wheeled vehicles is crucial. Helocopters are not tools of mass evacuation or mass delivery. Helos act at the micro level if you will, while trucks and buses in fleets act at the macro level. So if you can not get wheeled vehicles where they are needed either due to effects of the event or incompetence, people in large numbers are going to suffer.
Pat,
I just don't think it's a fair comparison. The NYPD ran in, yes, during the hours of crisis. What happened afterwards? How many cops and firefighters experienced PTSD? How many have quit since then, or committed suicide, or are drinking themselves to death? In NOLA, there was no terrible few hours followed by moments of rest or even strategic organizing. The people these cops are helping, or watching die, are people they may know, maybe their own families. And they have no resources. The towers didn't fall on the police substations and fire stations, but the hurricane did. And not just hours but days of unceasing demands have followed. I can't spell it out any better--there is no, none, nada, zip to compare between the NYPD and NOPD here. The catastrophes are too different to judge these men and women by the same criteria.
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