tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post989251471722659028..comments2024-03-18T23:08:20.960-05:00Comments on Althouse: "How do I manage this, a weekend -- during the GOP convention -- with a Euro social democrat and Karl Popper's son? Avoidance? Giant underpants?"Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger104125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77649189673572182372008-08-28T20:14:00.000-05:002008-08-28T20:14:00.000-05:00Without trying to come off as Miss Manners or Emil...Without trying to come off as Miss Manners or Emily Post, the difference that I have seen between the conservatives and the liberals is the lack of decorum or sense of place from those on the left.<BR/><BR/>By that I mean, if you are invited to a dinner party or are in a group of mixed people by sex, age and political persuasion, it is rude and obnoxious to begin spouting off on politics, religion or your latest intimate operation or personal condition. In a social setting, no one wants to discuss these things. It is the setting, the time and place that makes the speech inappropriate. <BR/><BR/>Unless the host has made it clear that he/she is encouraging this type of conversation, then it is self indulgent and just plain rude. When Pogo's guests begin discussing these topics they are exhibiting bad manners. <BR/><BR/>Conservatives tend to have been taught better. :-)Dust Bunny Queenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13341429444562280127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-28178808577370449692008-08-28T19:42:00.000-05:002008-08-28T19:42:00.000-05:00The fact that there are workplace or other rules t...The fact that there are workplace or other rules that regulate speech in circumstances that aren't protected by the First Amendment is also not anything new. If a workplace wants to set up some very PC rules of conduct, that is and should be its right, just as it can set rules on expected dress codes in the workplace, how one can decorate one's office, etc. That's life in any place where you aren't self-employed.<BR/><BR/>Also, the Right is nothing more than what the dominant collection of right-wingers say and do, and the same can be said for the Left. The fact that the head right-winger in charge (or his allies, at least) conducted themselves in the manner I mentioned shows that criminalizing speech (as in, go to jail, not just get fired, though that also seems to be the case in the example cited) isn't something one only finds coming from the Left.somefellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15013403004665789644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-38185140135049825692008-08-28T19:26:00.000-05:002008-08-28T19:26:00.000-05:00Revenant, if you are referring to hate crimes stat...<I>Revenant, if you are referring to hate crimes statutes, those aren't criminalizing speech, they are beefing up the punishments for existing crimes.</I><BR/><BR/>PC activists have tried both. The problem is that laws against racist speech, homophobic speech, et al get thrown out for being flagrantly unconstitutional. So those sorts of speech restrictions are confined to universities, businesses, and other non-government institutions that aren't bound by the first amendment, until such time as the Supreme Court has a sufficient number of left-wingers on it.<BR/><BR/><I>in any case such regulations were shot down</I><BR/><BR/>Saying they "were shot down" makes it sound like they no longer exist. This is only slightly less ridiculous than saying crime no longer exists in America. Yes, the speech codes are illegal; they are also common and widespread. thefire.org maintains good lists of current violators.<BR/><BR/>I would also point out that you're moving the goalposts from "what the activists want" to "what they can get away with". The fortunate fact that the first amendment stands in the way of the Left doesn't change their motives or desires.<BR/><BR/><I>Speaking of the ACLU, here's an example of criminalizing speech from the Right (or, to be precise, from the Bush crowd)</I><BR/><BR/>You're confusing "a right-winger trying to criminalize speech" with "the Right trying to criminalize speech".Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73244267671871276962008-08-28T18:42:00.000-05:002008-08-28T18:42:00.000-05:00Revenant, if you are referring to hate crimes stat...Revenant, if you are referring to hate crimes statutes, those aren't criminalizing speech, they are beefing up the punishments for existing crimes. Motives are always considered with regard to severity of punishments, so hate crimes statutes aren't a big departure from existing law on that score. If your concern is that speech is being used as evidence of motive, that's always been the case, like when someone overhears a defendant say "That guy slept with my wife! I want to kill that bastard!". If you're talking about criminalizing speech per se, that didn't get beyond attempted campus regulations (which aren't criminal statutes) and in any case such regulations were shot down, often with the help of the ACLU.<BR/><BR/>Speaking of the ACLU, here's an <A HREF="http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/commentary.aspx?id=19100" REL="nofollow">example</A> of criminalizing speech from the Right (or, to be precise, from the Bush crowd), which the ACLU fought. I trust you think they were correct in doing so?somefellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15013403004665789644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-32011457459243766882008-08-28T18:17:00.000-05:002008-08-28T18:17:00.000-05:00In other words, liberal Unitarians and Episcopalia...<I>In other words, liberal Unitarians and Episcopalians are as generous as conservative Baptists, and both are more generous than non-churchgoers.</I><BR/><BR/>My understanding is that that is, generally speaking, the case -- although churchgoers are on average more conservative than non-churchgoers, Christianity being an inherently conservative faith.<BR/><BR/>As for your point about conservatives complaining about mean left-wingers, conservatives have always complained. The key difference is whether or not they support the criminalization of opposing speech, as PC activists do.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-89977177565104830202008-08-28T18:11:00.000-05:002008-08-28T18:11:00.000-05:00"(Wait, am I not engaged to another Althouse comme...<I>"(Wait, am I not engaged to another Althouse commenter or three? I think one was Blake)"</I><BR/><BR/>Pshaw... That just means I'll have to reduce all other challengers to quivering puddles with my formidable intelligence and dazzling wit. Either that, or from behind with my Louisville Slugger... as long as they're outta the picture...Tiborehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07360541843865827271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-57152395135651572312008-08-28T17:28:00.000-05:002008-08-28T17:28:00.000-05:00Tibore, my darling!(Wait, am I not engaged to anot...Tibore, my darling!<BR/><BR/>(Wait, am I not engaged to another Althouse commenter or three? I think one was Blake)<BR/><BR/>Cheers,<BR/>Victoriavbspurshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00992013640447117624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77882638383617176702008-08-28T17:21:00.000-05:002008-08-28T17:21:00.000-05:00Pogo and Revenant: I wasn't referring to the init...Pogo and Revenant: I wasn't referring to the initial issue of dinner conversation, but the general issue (which came up in the comments) about how mean liberals supposedly are to other people, and how they are the only ones who bring up their political views rudely and in places where it's really not appropriate. The whole tone and tenor of those comments reeked of self-pity and cultural victimization politics (two things I'm seeing a lot of on the Right these days, particularly among religious conservative types), and that's what I was talking about with my PC comments. And with regard to that issue, make no mistake, that attitude pervades a certain type of politics just as much as leftist PC attitudes pervades another. <BR/><BR/>Off-topic: Revenant, awhile back you directed me to the Pew Charitable Trust's survey on religion and charity. I printed it out and read it over lunch around that time. A good read, but one thing that stuck out (if I remember correctly) was that while charitable giving correlates with church attendance, it doesn't seem to vary with ideology. In other words, liberal Unitarians and Episcopalians are as generous as conservative Baptists, and both are more generous than non-churchgoers. Interesting fact, if true. While Pew is a reputable source, I have an inherent skepticism about polling to draw big conclusions from one poll.somefellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15013403004665789644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-38040842502069989712008-08-28T17:03:00.000-05:002008-08-28T17:03:00.000-05:00This is an awesome thread, TitPB notwithstanding.This is an awesome thread, TitPB notwithstanding.blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-90559810219165971372008-08-28T16:52:00.000-05:002008-08-28T16:52:00.000-05:00Pogo's right, somefeller. Wanting to avoid an unpl...Pogo's right, somefeller. Wanting to avoid an unpleasant dinner conversation (and keep in mind that the leftie and libertarian don't like each other's politics any more than they like Pogo's) is hardly the same thing as wanting anyone who says mean things about you punished with expulsion or jail time. The latter being the position of the aforementioned "early 90s politically correct activists".Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-70857426735196832812008-08-28T16:38:00.000-05:002008-08-28T16:38:00.000-05:00"conservatives once were pretty good about (and of...<I>"conservatives once were pretty good about (and often right about) criticizing the politics of victimization. Now they embrace it"</I><BR/><BR/>Huh?<BR/>I just want to eat food, talk, kayak, bullshit, and sleep (repeat) for two days with friends without facing political dysentery or spontaneous human combustion from talkin' electoral smack.<BR/><BR/>Don't nobody sing Kum-effin-yaah no more?<BR/><BR/>Alternate plan: on first hearing the dreaded words intoning a rant-about-to-be-spewed, I will launch into song. Yes, I will sing, even though my voice has made cattle bleed and cats spin like underage chinese figure skaters about to be sent back to their farms. My singing voice is so bad, it causes rivers to change course and makes baby Jesus cry so hard the Virgin Mary smacks Him silly.<BR/><BR/><I>Iffff you mmmisssss the trainnnnn I'm onnnnnn, youuuu will knoowwww that I ammmm gonnnnnne.... 500 mmmmiillllllesss"</I>KCFleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00124201866124646626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-57947880192833979362008-08-28T16:31:00.000-05:002008-08-28T16:31:00.000-05:00An ultra-Commie-hating Republican daughter, with a...<I>An ultra-Commie-hating Republican daughter, with a stare which could kill small woodland animals.</I><BR/><BR/>A medusa, in other words.somefellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15013403004665789644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-22628491892230761582008-08-28T16:19:00.000-05:002008-08-28T16:19:00.000-05:00"An ultra-Commie-hating Republican daughter, with ...<I>"An ultra-Commie-hating Republican daughter, with a stare which could kill small woodland animals."</I><BR/><BR/>I <I>need</I> to marry you!!!Tiborehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07360541843865827271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-18583153075294545332008-08-28T16:03:00.000-05:002008-08-28T16:03:00.000-05:00Pogo if you are that worried there are two things ...Pogo if you are that worried there are two things you can do. One, cancel with one of them. Probably the rabid liberal; anyone who talks politics when the discussion is food should be trussed up.<BR/><BR/>If that is not possible then get Gorilla tape. It is much better than duct tape. Just slap it across their mouths. You get all the food, all the wine, and a nice quiet dinner to boot.Peter V. Bellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04209902525167395224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-89310000965170129902008-08-28T15:45:00.000-05:002008-08-28T15:45:00.000-05:00(That photo is hilarious).Too right, Original Mike...<I>(That photo is hilarious).</I><BR/><BR/>Too right, Original Mike. And his wife looks like the Bride of Bigfoot.vbspurshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00992013640447117624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-17450071199088154302008-08-28T15:29:00.001-05:002008-08-28T15:29:00.001-05:00Gee, all this weeping and gnashing of teeth about ...Gee, all this weeping and gnashing of teeth about the dread social oppression of mean liberals who are just cruel to conservatives, who never, ever bring up politics at social gatherings or do so in an offensive or provocative manner makes my heart bleed. <BR/><BR/>It's funny, conservatives once were pretty good about (and often right about) criticizing the politics of victimization. Now they embrace it, and wallow in it even more effectively than the most obnoxious early 90s PC campus activist. Try not to let the Left ruin your Labor Day weekend plans, fellas.somefellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15013403004665789644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-66129761056289707222008-08-28T15:29:00.000-05:002008-08-28T15:29:00.000-05:00I can't think of one thing I have ever politically...I can't think of one thing I have ever politically agreed with downtownlad, AlphaLiberal or Freder on, but I would enjoy dinner with any of them because they are obviously (deduced from their writings) fascinating people.Host with the Mosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17688942020227316003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-64538991244718706682008-08-28T15:04:00.000-05:002008-08-28T15:04:00.000-05:00Me? I walk out of the room when the lefties begin ...<I>Me? I walk out of the room when the lefties begin their chanting about Bush.</I><BR/><BR/>Kills the ODS buzz.nrn312https://www.blogger.com/profile/16077734871463437952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-72071582625277679202008-08-28T14:49:00.000-05:002008-08-28T14:49:00.000-05:00There was an article in the WSJ today, Victoria, c...There was an article in the WSJ today, Victoria, claiming that attire directions on party invitations have become undecipherable (e.g. "high black tie"). Maybe that's what happened to Cheney.<BR/><BR/>(That photo is hilarious).Original Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01714345479248980398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-5186182042265815652008-08-28T14:43:00.000-05:002008-08-28T14:43:00.000-05:00LOL. So I Googled Turd in the Punchbowl, the bette...LOL. So I Googled Turd in the Punchbowl, the better to rush the image for printing at Sir Speedy, and <A HREF="http://localrhythms.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/turd_in_punchbowl.jpg" REL="nofollow">this</A> came up.<BR/><BR/>But, curiously, also <A HREF="http://pics.livejournal.com/thomryng/pic/0000c1gy" REL="nofollow">this</A>.<BR/><BR/>I know! Maybe you can have a poster of him blown up extra-big, like Demi Moore did of <A HREF="http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/images/uploads/elmo-1.gif" REL="nofollow">Billy Idol</A> in St. Elmo's Fire.vbspurshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00992013640447117624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-38472831393515892052008-08-28T14:39:00.000-05:002008-08-28T14:39:00.000-05:00Can you imagine a dinner party with AlphaLiberal, ...<I>Can you imagine a dinner party with AlphaLiberal, Freder Frederson and garage mahal as guests? Maybe they wouldn't say much because how can you cut and paste from Kos, TPM and HuffPo in actual conversation?</I><BR/><BR/>That's unfair to Freder and garage, in my opinion; Alpha's the only one of the three who sticks to reciting the leftie blogosphere's arguments.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-56004016435708999532008-08-28T14:36:00.000-05:002008-08-28T14:36:00.000-05:00Ah, the party theme emerges: "Don't be the turd in...Ah, the party theme emerges: "Don't be the turd in the puchbowl". You should have a banner and party favors made up.Original Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01714345479248980398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-65232023242933838092008-08-28T14:32:00.000-05:002008-08-28T14:32:00.000-05:00Blogger ate the end of my post. I asked you if you...Blogger ate the end of my post. I asked you if you wanted to do dinner Palladian. Haha.<BR/><BR/>Simon<BR/>Ditto. If you're ever up this way in So Wisc shoot me a msg.garage mahalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06485491995866513686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-70761336224096872942008-08-28T14:25:00.000-05:002008-08-28T14:25:00.000-05:00After reading Chip's string theories, I'm thinking...After reading Chip's string theories, I'm thinking:<BR/><BR/>Is this the best thread ever, or what?vbspurshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00992013640447117624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-16297899775092260502008-08-28T14:22:00.000-05:002008-08-28T14:22:00.000-05:00the turd in the punchbowl. Wapatuli.To be served w...<I>the turd in the punchbowl. </I><BR/><BR/>Wapatuli.<BR/><BR/>To be served with fish tacos.vbspurshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00992013640447117624noreply@blogger.com