tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post9136395306528018367..comments2024-03-19T06:41:24.738-05:00Comments on Althouse: "Online petitions, protests, and statements by African American and civil rights leaders have all demanded Zimmerman be brought to justice."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger261125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-65339996011329190632012-03-27T13:35:09.358-05:002012-03-27T13:35:09.358-05:00In another interesting twist, Karen Finney, the fo...In another interesting twist, Karen Finney, the former communications director for the Democratic National Committee originally tried to lay the blame for the shooting on <a href="http://freebeacon.com/dem-operative-links-fla-shooting-to-koch-brothers/" rel="nofollow">the Koch brothers</a>, <a href="http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV?id=%7BEA0E2B36-391C-47D3-A57F-2D6790DDFA35%7D&title=MSNBC%20Host%20Blames%20Limbaugh%20Gingrich%20Santorum%20Rhetoric%20For%20Trevon%20Martin%20Death" rel="nofollow">Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum</a> but it turns out that George Zimmerman was actually a <a href="http://freebeacon.com/registered-dem-killed-trayvon/" rel="nofollow">registered Democrat</a>.Thorley Winstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17262423151559851671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-71324278404048987752012-03-23T07:34:35.067-05:002012-03-23T07:34:35.067-05:00Arguing that Zimmerman is Hispanic, not white is l...<i>Arguing that Zimmerman is Hispanic, not white is like arguing that a tennis ball is round, not yellow.<br /><br />Zimmerman's race is white, his ethnicity is Hispanic. </i><br /><br />Zimmerman is Latino. <br /><br />You can keep trying to beat that round peg into the square hole to fit your "whitey kills black" narrative all you want.<br /><br />Your point is as silly as me arguing that we're ALL african-american.Fenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16734571593963330215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-59144040714031432412012-03-23T06:51:07.620-05:002012-03-23T06:51:07.620-05:00Arguing that Zimmerman is Hispanic, not white is l...<i>Arguing that Zimmerman is Hispanic, not white is like arguing that a tennis ball is round, not yellow.<br /><br />Zimmerman's race is white, his ethnicity is Hispanic. </i><br /><br />Then why do they call you racist when you complain about illegal immigration? Why does the Census Bureau, Dept. of Justice, etc keep statistics with Hispanic as a category? Dumb ass.DADvocatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04621021178600799126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-41596534008446218552012-03-23T00:34:00.834-05:002012-03-23T00:34:00.834-05:00If Zimmerman flees to Mexico in a telegram, we cou...If Zimmerman flees to Mexico in a telegram, we could be drawn into Race War I.Ralph Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07915708905660273961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85533713474330527882012-03-23T00:13:28.030-05:002012-03-23T00:13:28.030-05:00There has been some talk about how Zimmerman "...There has been some talk about how Zimmerman "cornered" Martin as an excuse for Martin to start beating Zimmerman.<br /><br />Police were called to<br /><br />1231 Twin Trees Lane, Sanford, FL<br /><br />It would be interesting to pull up the address on Google Maps and see if this is possible.Philip Ngaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01352540989999523494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33061105656543247312012-03-23T00:04:13.846-05:002012-03-23T00:04:13.846-05:00Martin did not live in Sanford. He lived in Miami ...Martin did not live in Sanford. He lived in Miami with his mother.<br /><br />So he was a visitor, not a resident. It's possible that as captain of the Neighborhood Watch, Zimmerman was familiar with the residents and had a feeling that Martin was not a resident.<br /><br />Why did his mother send him to visit his father? We don't know how often he visited and if this was something unusual, such as problems his mother couldn't handle.Philip Ngaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01352540989999523494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-83527941830545651622012-03-22T23:16:41.158-05:002012-03-22T23:16:41.158-05:00I am willing to give Zimmerman the benefit of the ...I am willing to give Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt until trial, what is galling is the same thing wasn't done by the Sanford police. A man was killed. Instead of taking the man who killed him down to the station, testing him from drugs and alcohol and investigating the matter. They believed Zimmerman's story, let him go home and lost any possibility to see Zimmerman was drunk or on drugs. And then, only under pressure from civil rights organizations and the dead man's parents, are the authorities investigating the matter. It is all well and good to wait for the facts, but then the cops should be collecting the facts from all sources and not take the word of the people involved in the dispute. When this doesn't happen, and it didn't in this case, it leaves people open to the suspect worse.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00450871183914159480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33045020741893915522012-03-22T22:08:16.450-05:002012-03-22T22:08:16.450-05:00Arguing that Zimmerman is Hispanic, not white is l...Arguing that Zimmerman is Hispanic, not white is like arguing that a tennis ball is round, not yellow.<br /><br />Zimmerman's race is white, his ethnicity is Hispanic.Ignorance is Blisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17351664545145783244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-48356244701852068752012-03-22T20:45:07.679-05:002012-03-22T20:45:07.679-05:00I have a bias against people who go looking for tr...I have a bias against people who go looking for trouble. This is why I have little use for people who go to a riot and then cry about being pepper sprayed.<br /><br />Similarly, Mr. Zimmerman could have simply left alone the man he ended up shooting. <br /><br />Too many people go looking for trouble. No crime would have occurred, no one would have died, except for Zimmerman's refusal to leave well enough alone. The fact that Zimmerman confronted a man who had done nothing wrong makes this even harder to take.<br /><br />Was race a factor? Who cares? A man is dead for no good reason.NotWhoIUsedtoBehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14568355742926021406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-18600062233898464762012-03-22T20:04:10.362-05:002012-03-22T20:04:10.362-05:001980-2008:
93% of black victims were killed by bla...1980-2008:<br />93% of black victims were killed by blacks.<br />47% of all murders were committed by black.<br />In 2008, the off ending rate for blacks (24.7 offenders per<br />100,000) was 7 times higher than the rate for whites (3.4<br />offenders per 100,000)<br /><br />http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf<br /><br />But, we need to lynch this guy. Lynch 'em. Why is this SOB still alive?!DADvocatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04621021178600799126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-20689382859007377842012-03-22T19:56:16.703-05:002012-03-22T19:56:16.703-05:00Chris, if that were what you were arguing I wouldn...Chris, if that were what you were arguing I wouldn't have a problem with it, not really.<br /><br />But what you've been arguing is that the deciding element is simply Zimmerman's *presence* where he hasn't reason to be, and that other things like who-attacked-who don't matter compared to that insertion of himself into the situation.<br /><br />Fen or I can say that of *course* he can't just go get into a scuffle with someone and shoot them, but he can defend himself if he feels he is in danger... and you say no, not even then, because he *inserted* himself into the situation.<br /><br />There is no principle of Good Gun Ownership that follows that outrageous standard for self-defense.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73171836028871250912012-03-22T19:39:35.672-05:002012-03-22T19:39:35.672-05:00Vigils
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=41&sid=263047...Vigils<br /><br />http://www.wtop.com/?nid=41&sid=2630474<br /><br />http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/07-10-02-candlelight-vigil-demands-justic.html<br /><br />http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2012/03/21/photos-silent-march-for-victims-of-glbt-violence/<br /><br />http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/dc/vigil-outside-dc9-nightclub-turns-into-anger-101910<br /><br />http://www.afroam.org/sections/news/washington/story.htm?storyid=73652HThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11164697644251374452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-82713677262101674182012-03-22T19:38:34.915-05:002012-03-22T19:38:34.915-05:00Synova - "John, by injecting himself into a s...Synova - <i>"John, by injecting himself into a situation, put himself, Jenny, and anyone within bullet range at greater risk."</i><br /><br />Yes, exactly. Under US law, John <b>has</b> placed everybody in bullet range at greater risk. And if he accidentally shoots the wrong person, they (or their heirs) and the state can take legal action against John.<br /><br />I own guns. If I go wandering around my neighborhood armed and shoot somebody, then I am liable. It is my responsibility as the gun owner to make <b>damn</b> sure whatever I shoot at deserved to be shot.<br /><br />I've seen video of where they found Martin's body. It's nowhere near the street, and there's no visible place to hide. It's an open back yard of an apartment complex.Chris Gerribhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09484367221527860100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85987195813343243662012-03-22T19:28:13.299-05:002012-03-22T19:28:13.299-05:00Come on lefties, everyone hates the guy walking ar...Come on lefties, everyone hates the guy walking around acting big and making everyone follow the rules. Lynch 'em! Lynch 'em!DADvocatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04621021178600799126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-30619025822011076582012-03-22T19:11:05.020-05:002012-03-22T19:11:05.020-05:00Come you lefties, get your lynching mob together a...Come you lefties, get your lynching mob together and take care of this heretic.DADvocatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04621021178600799126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-41572775626747666652012-03-22T18:54:50.931-05:002012-03-22T18:54:50.931-05:00Doug said...
It'd be great if there were ...Doug said...<br /><br /> It'd be great if there were similar outrage and protests for the 68% of young black men like Trayvon who are killed by ... black men.<br /><br />____<br /><br />There are vigils and walks and protests for/over black men getting killed by black men. No, not every single one. Not a majority. But they do occur.HThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11164697644251374452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-21055570233809404732012-03-22T18:46:29.689-05:002012-03-22T18:46:29.689-05:00rcommal, I didn't think you were doing that. ...rcommal, I didn't think you were doing that. I was thinking more of this: "<i>Zimmerman, by injecting himself into a situation, put himself, Martin and anybody within bullet range at higher risk. The burden is entirely on Zimmerman.</i>"<br /><br />Take out the specifics and what principle is left?<br /><br />"John, by injecting himself into a situation, put himself, Jenny, and anyone within bullet range at greater risk."<br /><br />It could be any intervention at all... John, who concealed carries, by injecting himself into a domestic argument between Jenny and Joyce, put them and anyone within bullet range at greater risk.<br /><br />John, who heard a strange noise behind Granny Emma's garage, by injecting himself into the situation, put Biff's murderous pit bull, and anyone else within bullet range, at greater risk.<br /><br />John, by carrying in a public place, puts himself and anyone else within bullet range, at greater risk. So John should only carry in better neighborhoods, where his firearm is unlikely to turn a mugging or robbery into a mortal event.<br /><br />It's impossible to continue that logical construction without damning the "insertion of himself into the situation", which in this case may well have been (for all we know) nothing more than the local neighborhood watch. Because that's the context of that argument... that no matter what the *facts*, the bottom line is that he "inserted himself into the situation."<br /><br />That is a profoundly *amazing* standard for guilt.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-495910821402121742012-03-22T18:37:11.321-05:002012-03-22T18:37:11.321-05:00Thorley- I have seen it reported there was a toxic...Thorley- I have seen it reported there was a toxicology screen on Martin's body and he came back clean.<br />Zimmerman was not tested for either drugs or alcohol.MayBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11966319657113124861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-51154188885234682282012-03-22T18:29:20.552-05:002012-03-22T18:29:20.552-05:00It'd be great if there were similar outrage an...It'd be great if there were similar outrage and protests for the 68% of young black men like Trayvon who are killed by ... black men.Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15741966714510339124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-78134119374097826772012-03-22T18:23:34.724-05:002012-03-22T18:23:34.724-05:00Matthew,
On one hand, 50 suspicious incidents in a...Matthew,<br /><i>On one hand, 50 suspicious incidents in a year sounds like a lot of nuisance calls.<br /></i><br />I read somewhere else that the neighborhood has ~240 houses, and over 400 911 calls in a year.<br /><br />I'm glad I don't live there.marinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03435598676103731157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-66140828729926461752012-03-22T17:17:28.940-05:002012-03-22T17:17:28.940-05:00IIRC Zimmerman reported that Martin looked intoxic...IIRC Zimmerman reported that Martin looked intoxicated when he spotted him. I’d be curious to know if this was ever verified. I wonder if they did any sort of testing Zimmerman as well – if either of them were voluntarily impaired, that could explain how things turned out.Thorley Winstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17262423151559851671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73336419542289998712012-03-22T17:10:13.468-05:002012-03-22T17:10:13.468-05:00One of the things we don't know is if Zimmerma...One of the things we don't know is if Zimmerman had a chip on his shoulder, or if Martin did.<br /><br /><i>These people will talk, always, in terms of citizens having an obligation not to enter the domain of police (which is generally to get shot at and die,) and to stay in their place in the domain of citizens... which is to aggressively avoid situations out of their domain... stay in the car... stay home... don't do what you were doing... don't carry a gun... Because that puts you in that other domain where there is personal risk.</i><br /><br />This is not my attitude in general, at all.<br /><br />Still, I have some real questions about the particular incident in question, both in the event and thereafter. There are hinky things about it, by my lights, stuff that's not adding up well, flags that are at least a bit reddish.rcommalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301180339680504471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-80258938121852825232012-03-22T17:09:22.616-05:002012-03-22T17:09:22.616-05:00"Again, Martin had done nothing wrong and had..."<i>Again, Martin had done nothing wrong and had no way of knowing who Zimmerman was or what his intentions were.</i>"<br /><br />And again... is this something we actually know? <br /><br />Do we *know* Martin was doing nothing wrong? And by "wrong" I don't mean "will get him arrested." I don't know what he was doing or if there was any reason to think he was suspicious or not. <br /><br />And neither do you. <br /><br />And I don't know that Martin had no way of knowing who Zimmerman was. Neighborhood watch types often have a "uniform" or something... a T-shirt, whatever... and if he spoke to Martin, did he *not* say who he was? I don't know if he did or not. Do you?<br /><br />There are a lot of assumptions just tossed around for little or no reason, lots of assertions asserted without any evidence.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-50447871490458578672012-03-22T17:02:01.309-05:002012-03-22T17:02:01.309-05:00"Synova - how can you claim self-defense when..."<i>Synova - how can you claim self-defense when you go looking for trouble?</i>"<br /><br />You make assumptions about citizenship that I reject.<br /><br />It really is that basic, I think. <br /><br />Long long before someone goes out to patrol their neighborhood there are assumptions about our duties as citizens and individuals. Some people have this odd (to me) way of thinking about law enforcement, that makes them a different sort of civil creature... not special, but different. These people will talk, always, in terms of citizens having an obligation not to enter the domain of police (which is generally to get shot at and die,) and to stay in their place in the domain of citizens... which is to aggressively avoid situations out of their domain... stay in the car... stay home... don't do what you were doing... don't carry a gun... Because that puts you in that other domain where there is personal risk.<br /><br />"Looking for trouble" is a bravo with a chip on his shoulder.<br /><br />"Looking for trouble" is not participation in a neighborhood watch.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-43391426698376806342012-03-22T16:56:18.142-05:002012-03-22T16:56:18.142-05:00I dunno...
I've called the police on a number...I dunno...<br /><br />I've called the police on a number of occasions to report suspicious behavior in our neighborhood (in a small city). If, having done so and been told police are on the way, I then went and confronted the people in question...well, yeah, I think I might well classify my behavior as risky and exhibiting poor judgment.<br /><br />Now, if it turns out to be true that as Zimmerman returned to his truck (parked near the mailboxes, which the dispatcher suggested as a place where he could tell police to meet Zimmerman), he got jumped by Martin, the context is different. <br /><br />If not, well...<br /><br />... as I said, I dunno... .<br /><br />--<br /><br />I think it's appropriate to apply both both the benefit of the doubt AND the skepticism of scrutiny all the way around.rcommalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301180339680504471noreply@blogger.com