tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post88578983550525100..comments2024-03-18T20:24:02.511-05:00Comments on Althouse: "A working group of senators from both parties is nearing agreement on broad principles for overhauling the nation’s immigration laws..."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger296125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-43388247772749001382014-04-20T16:07:49.470-05:002014-04-20T16:07:49.470-05:00I'm still trying to figure out how law that is...I'm still trying to figure out how law that is capricious and enforced for political gain is "awesome", unless it is Old Testament-like, as in "terrible, evil, juggernaut", rather than Keanu Reeves in 1990.<br /><br />I see no useful approach other than that of Althouse's dad, embittered and not smart. I'll play the game, as one must, but see no reason in participating, as the trajectory is unsustainable. http://goo.gl/UuchIeAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16689362466601155038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-20492902274179315982013-06-05T06:11:34.834-05:002013-06-05T06:11:34.834-05:00"Breaking News "Canada opens up Investor..."Breaking News "Canada opens up Investor Immigrant Program"<br />Canada opens its Immigrant Investor Program based on following qualifying<br />criteria: -<br /><br />. Two years management/business experience in the last five years<br /><br />. Net-worth of $1.6 million<br /><br />. One time cost of $180,000<br /><br />If interested, please contact us immediately, as very few applications will<br />be accepted under this program with a submission deadline. You can email us<br />at info@sunenterprises.caAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03577742682706694215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-72989810359173326112013-01-28T09:25:58.064-06:002013-01-28T09:25:58.064-06:00Ann Althouse said, "I'm simply calling fo...Ann Althouse said, <i>"I'm simply calling for real economic analysis and not emotion."</i><br /><br />I can't imagine any economic analysis that says it would benefit the USA to import large numbers of low-skill immigrants.<br /><br />Just about every other nation in the world looks at immigration from the PoV of, "What is this immigrant likely to do for us, and how likely is it that this immigrant will be a burden to taxpayers?"<br /><br />It's all too easy for those with comfortable incomes and economically valuable skills to say, "Let 'em all in!" But the result is higher tax burdens (which slows the entire economy, and hastens offshoring) and reduced opportunities for citizens at the lower end of the economic ladder to survive without endless government handouts.<br /><br />If the USA is such a strong attraction to immigrants (as it apparently is) then we can afford to be (and should be) choosy.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16099940931064117337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-4705001693056754302013-01-27T21:38:51.303-06:002013-01-27T21:38:51.303-06:00Canada has a tendency, most of the time, to keep t...<i>Canada has a tendency, most of the time, to keep things simple...e.g., the KISS principle in setting up the rules. Australia, on the other hand, is a classic social/progressive state, founded by felons and surround by protective ocean where "border crossing" is more than a 50 yard swim. </i><br /><br />and don't forget, from canada's POV the USA functions as an international "buffer zone".john marzanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08036820667908976630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-82971452844592544032013-01-27T21:11:56.192-06:002013-01-27T21:11:56.192-06:00The 11 million workers are here
they're not a...<i>The 11 million workers are here</i><br /><br />they're not all workers. many are still in school.john marzanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08036820667908976630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-6191255534919154152013-01-27T20:41:52.359-06:002013-01-27T20:41:52.359-06:00If the Republican Party came down for strict borde...If the Republican Party came down for strict border enforcement, strict employment verification, and mass deportation of illegals, it would win every election by landslide margins.<br /><br />These policies have overwhelming support in every segment of America (even Hispanics) <i>except</i> the academic-media-political complex, and businesses dependent on illegal immigrant labor. And Jews, who for entirely understandable historical reasons, are reflexively hostile to anything resembling nativism and sympathetic to immigrants.<br /><br />Because of obstruction by those forces, actual immigration enforcement has never even been tried.<br /><br />Which Prof. Althouse mistakes for <i>popular</i> support for immigration laxity.<br /><br />I saw a comment a few years back from a veteran pollster. He said that in all his years, he had never seen such a huge difference between elite opinion and mass opinion as on immigration.<br /><br />Prof. Althouse is part of that elite - which has blocked effective action against illegal immigrants. Now she cites the absence of such action as evidence of popular support for illegal immigration amnesty. This is very much like the parricide seeking mercy as an orphan.Rich Rostromhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13262703348236110420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-56393117321258088092013-01-27T14:42:13.931-06:002013-01-27T14:42:13.931-06:00I meant, of course, "unemployment benefits.&q...I meant, of course, "unemployment benefits."Texan99https://www.blogger.com/profile/10479561573903660086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-50565752642349602772013-01-27T14:41:30.377-06:002013-01-27T14:41:30.377-06:00I'm solidly with Althouse on this one. The 11...I'm solidly with Althouse on this one. The 11 million workers are here because we hire them. There is no public consensus in favor of stopping them at the borders; if there were, they'd be turned into the police as soon as they put their heads up and tried to find food and shelter, but almost literally no one does that. Who wants to send a guy to jail for taking a job to feed his family?<br /><br />For me, the big problem is that you can't have both open borders and a safety net that costs so much you have to borrow money to pay for it. And I doubt the political will of the country to stop the safety net. It will be a big shock if we legalize 11 immigrants and 30% of them become entitled to employment benefits the very first day we enforce the minimum-wage and benefits laws in their favor. Already the biggest reason for resentment against illegals is that they're sucking up public health and education resources.<br /><br />I have no patience with the complaint that low immigrant wages depress our labor market. I hate to see conservatives buck the free market like that. Forget privileged college professors: why can't any public-school educated American compete successfully against an illiterate immigrant? If he doesn't offer something better, why should he command higher wages?Texan99https://www.blogger.com/profile/10479561573903660086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-22216386724209336462013-01-27T10:31:27.371-06:002013-01-27T10:31:27.371-06:00and if california is the model for america's f...<i>and if california is the model for america's future, the GOP is doomed.</i><br /><br />Unfortunately, California pretty much still is the model for America's future and the one party state: <a href="http://acrazychicken.blogspot.com/2012/11/who-what-and-where-are-californias.html" rel="nofollow">link</a>chickelithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10773887469972534979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-40872195734992256102013-01-27T10:07:17.887-06:002013-01-27T10:07:17.887-06:00Here's how this works;
Chicago is a sanctuary ...Here's how this works;<br />Chicago is a sanctuary city. Cook county ids a sanctuary county. Simply means no questions asked about your legality. Illinois has the fourth largest hispanic population in the US. Chicago has the second largest urban hispanic population next to LA.<br />Should Jose and Hose B manage to run the gauntlet and make it to the windy city they can apply for and get foodstamps, ADC,Medicaid and a housing allowance. Once they have all that they buy IDs and green cards that will allow them to work. They go get a job and keep the bennies. On their W2 form they claim 5,7,9,15 dependents. Where are the dependents? In Mexico. It can't be verified and most get away with it.<br />Ain't America great! Rustyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00938263272237104128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-39940443444829880752013-01-27T07:48:50.743-06:002013-01-27T07:48:50.743-06:00Kirk parker said ...
... but in our first century...Kirk parker said ...<br /><br /><i>... but in our first century there was nothing resembling even the slightest hint of today's welfare state, either.</i><br /><br />True enough. That pretty much means we, collectively, have created our own problem...beginning perhaps with the Homestead Act of 1862. <br /><br />john marzan said...<br /><br /><i>canada and australia are also nations built on immigrants. but they seem to do a better job in selecting the type of immigrants they allow to become citizens.</i><br /><br />Canada has a tendency, most of the time, to keep things simple...e.g., the KISS principle in setting up the rules. Australia, on the other hand, is a classic social/progressive state, founded by felons and surround by protective ocean where "border crossing" is more than a 50 yard swim. Adopt Australia's state model in the USA and you merely acquire more of the welfare state Parker refers to above. Aridoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18345930150667529742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-68279457130211660592013-01-27T07:11:54.326-06:002013-01-27T07:11:54.326-06:00It's too bad because my guesstimate is that ab...<i>It's too bad because my guesstimate is that about a third of those folks who have come in illegally and stayed would much prefer to return and keep and raise their families in their Spanish-speaking home country, but the rules of our functioning dysfunction make travel back and forth untenable. <b>If you make it in, you gotta stay, may not be lucky enough to get in again.</b> So, if you do get in, start helping the rest of your family in, too.</i><br /><br />i disagree. because it's so easy to get in due to lack of enforcement. <br /><br />"family reunification" in the past meant the mexican worker returns home to mexico, because his wife and kids still live there. but after U.S. supreme court in 1982 allowed illegal aliens the right to get free k-12 public education, it made the decision easier for mexican workers to bring their kids illegally to the states (and wife to look after them) since they don't have to worry about paying for their children's U.S. education. so it made no sense for the illegal alien workers to return "home" because his/her family is already in the states.john marzanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08036820667908976630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-57440427340839553242013-01-27T06:45:32.453-06:002013-01-27T06:45:32.453-06:00"The GOP will readjust somehow."
That &q...<i>"The GOP will readjust somehow."<br />That "somehow" might turn out to be "go the way of the Whigs".</i><br /><br />like the California GOP?<br /><br />and if california is the model for america's future, the GOP is doomed.john marzanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08036820667908976630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-65083258146042273002013-01-27T06:33:04.837-06:002013-01-27T06:33:04.837-06:00We are a nation of immigrants, unquestionably.
ca...<i>We are a nation of immigrants, unquestionably.</i><br /><br />canada and australia are also nations built on immigrants. but they seem to do a better job in selecting the type of immigrants they allow to become citizens.john marzanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08036820667908976630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-80607734829321806172013-01-27T00:48:50.124-06:002013-01-27T00:48:50.124-06:00I'll bet I know more immigrants and more illeg...<i>I'll bet I know more immigrants and more illegal ones than anyone in here</i><br /><br />Perhaps, but I would suppose I'm over 1000, certainly with the many immigrants I've worked with over the years. The sad truth is Americans don't want to be engineers, and so we have to import them from countries like India, that value engineering.Dantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07393170116669470751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-49693946745387636572013-01-26T23:58:15.261-06:002013-01-26T23:58:15.261-06:00Althouse,
"The GOP will readjust somehow.&qu...Althouse,<br /><br />"<i>The GOP will readjust somehow.</i>"<br /><br />That "somehow" might turn out to be "go the way of the Whigs".<br /><br />Re: the California road trip--how about a visiting professorship at cal State Fresno?<br /><br /><br />Aridog,<br /><br />"<i>In our first century no immigrants were documented in the fashion of today...There is no easy answer</i>"<br /><br />Quite true, but in our first century there was nothing resembling even the slightest hint of today's welfare state, either.<br /><br /><br />Kirk Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05921711310191924997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-42382766760515909832013-01-26T20:29:42.236-06:002013-01-26T20:29:42.236-06:00In my area, we have our equal share of Hispanic, b...In my area, we have our equal share of Hispanic, black, and white EBT card users. The Hispanics are at least pleasant to their children generally, and I would much rather be behind them in the Walmart checkout line. But I can't get over the fact that it is harder for the other two demographics to get out of the EBT line, because we are subsidizing a cheaper class of foreign worker. Minimum wage laws exacerbate the problem (more good intentions). I think immigration can be a good thing, but they need to compete on equal terms with the rest of the labor market, and not add to the welfare burden. Æthelflædhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16332838962205821653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-52506186486578510822013-01-26T19:26:16.330-06:002013-01-26T19:26:16.330-06:00"Althouse is a bit loose with comments about ...<i>"Althouse is a bit loose with comments about the illegals benefiting "us." Again, this has been well-parsed for years. Democratic politicians benefit from illegal immigration as part of their voter-import program. (The law means nothing to the left, only power). Business factions benefit by paying lower wages. Relatively unskilled American workers get creamed. So does social cohesion and the rule of law.</i><br /><br />Smartest comment on the thread. I'll add this: the rest of us don't get Jack shit out of massive illegal and legal immigration except more crowded highways, national parks, beaches, etc. Remember when liberals were all in favor of ZPG? Probably not, but they were. Lesson: Never trust a liberal - there's always a hidden agenda.rcoceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17102201338319611538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-48752534951647322142013-01-26T19:25:02.520-06:002013-01-26T19:25:02.520-06:00DADvocate:
Amazing how harsh people who know they...DADvocate:<br /><br /><i>Amazing how harsh people who know they are safe and protected can be.</i><br /><br />Exactly! It is dissociation of risk which causes corruption. It is dreams of instant (or immediate) gratification which motivates its progress.<br /><br />The problem in American is that both the subsidized lower and opportunistic upper class benefit from corruption. They are squeezing the middle class through redistributive change and similar policies. They are corrupting the population as a whole through policies which denigrate individual dignity and devalue human life. They sponsor generational genocide through the normalization of promiscuity, homosexual behavior, and of course sanctioning a woman's right to commit premeditated murder of her children. They pursue establishment of monopolies, especially authoritarian, because they prefer not to compete.<br /><br />The economic fallout of unmeasured immigration is a progressive displacement of American men, women, and children at work, school, and throughout society. It gives justification to redistributive change, in part because it gives rise to progressive inflation (e.g. Obamacare). They are manufacturing the problems to which they subsequently offer solutions, at a price, including sacrificing your wealth, dignity, and progeny.<br /><br />It's not guns which kill children. It's women who desire to preserve their material, physical, and social standing who kill their children. It's inferior, egoistic males who seek to normalize this degenerate behavior.n.nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04252447117532342957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77857004809837703292013-01-26T19:03:09.135-06:002013-01-26T19:03:09.135-06:00Bah! Seeing RedBah! Seeing RedMayBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11966319657113124861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-39866963132296409952013-01-26T18:59:12.903-06:002013-01-26T18:59:12.903-06:00Seeing Ted- sorry to hear about your health proble...Seeing Ted- sorry to hear about your health problems! Hong Jong was a great choice anyway. Such a<br />vibrant city. Something for everyone to love. MayBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11966319657113124861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-17240593600403895282013-01-26T18:38:44.657-06:002013-01-26T18:38:44.657-06:00To me, the economic question is pretty clear. For ...To me, the economic question is pretty clear. For the nation as a whole, immigration (even illegal) is a net positive with some very notable drawbacks. I think we need a robust guest worker-type program so that there is a much easier path for people to come here legally (although the issues that sinz52 and cryptical bring up are quite real economic issues. I notice Althouse prefers not respond to those instead just issuing a blanket accusation that commenters are just being emotional, which is pretty rich from the lady who spent much of the 2012 election wanting to protect Obama, the most powerful man in the world). Anyhow. In my opinion, having a guest worker visa available at low cost and with relatively low hassle would encourage more of the types of immigrants we want, and if it were coupled with robust enforcement of immigration violations (whether on the employee or employer end, or both), somewhat less of the type we don't, along (almost certainly) with some increase in the costs of food and certain other services that employ large numbers of illegals at very low pay (not all illegals actually work for very low pay, though most in agriculture do). <br /><br />I am not sure why Democrats always seem to get excited about a "path to citizenship." It doesn't seem to me that someone whose very presence in this country is in violation of federal law is very deserving of citizenship, but I could support a path to becoming, say, a documented legal alien. Legally, though, even this seems to me problematic in a country that supposedly believes in the rule of law. Telling a broad class of people that the laws don't apply to them is bad precedent, both because it provides special treatment to some and because it excludes (on the basis primarily of ethnicity) others. In practice, we all know the law doesn't get applied equally in all circumstances (Hello, David Gregory), and in my opinion, the notion of the rule of law, while valuable, is becoming pretty anorexic. If we want to salvage it, we probably need to start doing that by applying the laws as equally as is reasonable, and excusing violations of the law when those are blatant violations committed with intent just because it is economically convenient to do so (or, worse, politically) strikes me as a pretty bad idea. <br /><br />And here I admit my bias: My husband is an Asian immigrant who went to the great expense and trouble of immigrating legally. He maintains legal status, mostly because it's the right thing to do, but also because as he is not Hispanic, there is no large bloc of Democrats who is likely to empathize with his plight. If you want free shit in this country, you really need to get the Democrats to empathize with you in some way. Eventually, the Republicans will be convinced to go along with it in the name of "not being stupid."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17713675912840481723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-15641409442874935332013-01-26T17:49:38.401-06:002013-01-26T17:49:38.401-06:00Ken, I see it every day. At some markets I go to t...<i>Ken, I see it every day. At some markets I go to the vast majority of customers buy their stuff with zero cash of their own. And, I see them buying items that I don't because they might be too expensive. Wait. I am buying that stuff, but they take it home. Dammit!</i><br /><br />You know, one might think they would say "Thank you," but instead you get the Obamaphone lady who complained, in a recent interview, that there aren't enough free minutes.<br /><br />Also, and unfortunately, this does not mean you are going to heaven. Forced good will doesn't count.Dantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07393170116669470751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-47709608238438978892013-01-26T17:43:45.371-06:002013-01-26T17:43:45.371-06:00I'm simply calling for real economic analysis ...<i>I'm simply calling for real economic analysis and not emotion. Some of you are expressing the conventional thoughts and emotions, but I'm saying this is clouding the question and causing Republicans to look like they pander to nativists.</i><br /><br />I agree Ann. So I've done some of the economic analysis for CA. Here is the way it goes.<br /><br />1. The Second Generation does slightly better than the first generation in a host of demographic indicators.<br /><br />2. The Third Generation does worse than the second generation, with gang affiliation, delinquency, crime, income, and illegitimacy all significantly worse compared to the 2nd generation.<br /><br />3. The fertility rate of Hispanics is a bit over 3.<br /><br />4. The average CA household income of Hispanics is about $44K.<br /><br />5. The cost of K - 13 for 3 children is about $400,000, far more than the Hispanic household will pay in taxes.<br /><br />6. Hispanics as a demographic eschew education, having a college matriculation rate significantly lower than blacks.<br /><br />7. To put the cost into perspective, half of CA school children are now Hispanic, so half of that goes to Hispanics, at about $32.5B.<br /><br />8. Agriculture is only 2% of the CAs GDP, yet is the primary reason for importing illegals.<br /><br />9. The US has a guest worker program, but it is so riddled with regulations, and so it is cheaper to use illegals for labor.<br /><br />10. CA has a massive unemployment rate, particularly among teens. Jobs typically taken by teens are now filled with career Hispanics.<br /><br /><br />Now, I do not blame the illegals for coming here. I simply blame our government. I do not blame the business interests that would hire illegals, as I have seen them do it in a legal manner, set up by the government to encourage the illegal.<br /><br />This started when the SOS initiative, which would ban CA services to illegals, was struck down by a federal judge as "Unconstitutional." Thereby opening the door to subsidized labor.<br /><br />What I do not understand is how this is to the benefit of CA, to subsidize AG and construction, both of which do not add much to CA GDP (total 6%), and essentially take on huge tax liabilities, put the society at risk as unlike Asian immigrates, Hispanics do not as a group assimilate to the 21st century worker. The hard working agrarian culture of Hispanics appears to be lost by the 3rd generation, and the result is a massive source of people who are uneducated, use welfare more, have out of wedlock more, all which are risk factors and expensive to the state.<br /><br />The simple way to stop the damage is to implement e-verify. Of course, employers don't want to, and it is legitimate for them to try to block it.<br /><br />What is illegitimate in my view is to declare a law "Unconstitutional," and for the governments to not protect their own citizens from the abuse of taxes for illegals.<br /><br />What is arrogant is the assumption that our PC schooling will make millions of Hispanics into 21st century workers.<br /><br />To be clear, I'm not opposed to immigration, though in the current system it seems it would be in the US's interest to import more Southeast Asians. It's nearly impossible to legally immigrate, and for some reason the high-tech sectors, Hospitals, etc., all high value add fields, for some reason require legality.Dantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07393170116669470751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-3685975579976642122013-01-26T17:07:17.213-06:002013-01-26T17:07:17.213-06:00"The problem with illegal immigrants is not w..."The problem with illegal immigrants is not with those who are here and working, it's with those who are here and not working or pretending to not be working. Anyone who has stood in line at a checkout in Wal-Mart or Aldis has seen non-English speaking people with multiple carts of junk food paid for with EBT cards. If you don't live in normal America you may not see this, but most Americans do. Food Stamp and WICC people do not check immigration status of recipients. Emergency rooms don't either. This has to be costing enormous sums. Ordinary Americans see it and resent it."<br /><br />This is true, but you also see plenty of Honey Boo Boos doing it too. The sad part is when they cannot even learn how to use the EBT cards correctly and slow up the line. (The American fat-asses, not the immigrants.)<br /><br />I think Wal-Mart should have a Tax-payer Patriot express line where EBT is not allowed. Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04438466605029568462noreply@blogger.com