tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post8841671695111430867..comments2024-03-19T01:52:00.810-05:00Comments on Althouse: "From a grouchy pol slip-sliding into irrelevancy to the Republican presidential candidate introduced as America’s mayor..."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-72740387675005671592007-09-23T00:18:00.000-05:002007-09-23T00:18:00.000-05:00Alphaliberal, a friendly word of advice:Using anyt...Alphaliberal, a friendly word of advice:<BR/><BR/>Using anything posted on a leftwing blog (such as Talking Points Memo)as evidence to bolster your arguments will get you just as far as any conservative linking to Fox News.Brenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02480180418373862524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85687436327519239692007-09-22T22:54:00.000-05:002007-09-22T22:54:00.000-05:00Tina Fey, the star and writer of "30 Rock" perhaps...Tina Fey, the star and writer of "30 Rock" perhaps says it best: <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/arts/television/23stei.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=artsspecial" REL="nofollow"><I>I have a lot of liberal feelings, but I also live in New York, and I want to feel safe, and I secretly kind of want Giuliani.”</I></A>Brenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02480180418373862524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-69946055589558225262007-09-22T11:34:00.000-05:002007-09-22T11:34:00.000-05:00One thing I do admire about Giuliani is the way he...One thing I do admire about Giuliani is the way he treats black people like shit.<BR/><BR/>That's cool.downtownladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08663069432164302806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-90636056015695367472007-09-22T10:50:00.000-05:002007-09-22T10:50:00.000-05:00Giuliani is a fraud. He pretends to have some sort...Giuliani is a fraud. He pretends to have some sort of special skill or knowledge for combatting terrorism. But he doesn't. He was Mayor when New York was attacked and the city was ill-prepared due to Giuliani's insistence that the command center/love nest be downtown. It could not be used because it was too close to the towers. <BR/><BR/>So, <A HREF="http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/016484.php" REL="nofollow">he screwed that up</A>. <BR/><BR/>When you listen to him on terrorism, he sounds just like Bush. And Bush has been a disaster. <BR/><BR/>If Ann is using the royal "we" I agree her attachment is irrational and focused on a need for a daddy figure to make her feel safe.AlphaLiberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08711124490821422066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33972334624287787382007-09-22T10:30:00.000-05:002007-09-22T10:30:00.000-05:00You won't get your money back on International Rel...You won't get your money back on International Relations Land, Bea, if you get Hillary as President.<BR/><BR/>You'll get taken to the cleaners in the National Security Pavilion. That's where you'll be hunkered down after the next "Never Again" attack at will on NYC and other cities. Having Bill in bed next to her won't guarantee that she will overnight become respected enough to get the best out of the military. And you know what happened when Bill got distracted last time . . .Brenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02480180418373862524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-4402296370154825152007-09-22T08:43:00.000-05:002007-09-22T08:43:00.000-05:00Hey Kirk, I'm a little old lady in tennis shoes, s...Hey Kirk, I'm a little old lady in tennis shoes, so I don't have much testosterone to spill on these discussions. I've just got my ideas. Maybe I'm crazy, but a lot of people are concerned with the same things I am.<BR/><BR/>I think the two biggest problems we face in the United States are: <BR/><BR/>1. The terrorist threat with the related Middle East mess. This is an international problem with a big domestic component. Some people call this National Security. I think National Security is a bigger set of issues than the current GWOT, but that's too big a debate for this paragraph.<BR/><BR/>2. Health care reform. This is a purely domestic problem, but a huge one. We've got pretty good health care in the US, but the administrative costs are killing us. No other country pays what we do to push paper (now electrons) around trying to shift costs to somebody else. I just got back from Europe, and, believe me, things are getting weird over there, but at least they don't pour money meant to pay for medical care down insurance company rat holes. They've got their own rat holes, but we'll get to that another time.<BR/><BR/>What's to be confused about? Those are my two big issues. I don't care which one you put first on the list. They're BOTH absolutely vital to get right, or we're screwed.<BR/><BR/>You could also add:<BR/><BR/>3. Immigration. You might want to put this under the rubric of National Security, but it's going to need a separate solution than, say, figuring out what to do about Iran. This is also a Big Issue for many people. It doesn't bother me as much as Nos. 1 and 2, but if, God forbid, I lived in Southern California again, I might want somebody to look into just who those 17 guys are the neighbor's got putting on a new roof<BR/><BR/>A little further down the list, but something that's going to bite us in the ass big time unless we do something:<BR/><BR/>4. Medicare funding. This a classic Domestic Issue. Interesting and scary, particularly if you're a Baby Boomer. All you Boomers could end up with nothing but aspirin to take for your cancer unless we figure out how to pay for this. Me, I plan to be dead. I also think we might find a solution for this one if we reform health care in general.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, we have four or five Really Big Problems we've got to solve. I expect people should disagree about what's most important. A lot of people seem ready to dismiss the terrorist threat, and just forget about 9/11. They think terrorism is no big deal, and the GWOT has been oversold. I've heard and read a lot of this lately, including the archives here. Makes me sick. I live in Manhattan and was here on 9/11. Like every other New Yorker, I could go on about people I knew who were killed or injured or otherwise badly affected. But all I'm going to say about this is, NEVER AGAIN.<BR/><BR/>But National Security isn't the only issue. If it were, I might be more inclined to vote for Rudy. But even there, as much as I like him, it would be a tough sell for me.<BR/><BR/>No, there are other problems we've got to solve, and I think, overall, that Sen. Clinton is the best candidate to deal with the whole mess. She's tough. She's experienced. She's got a coalition of Democrats behind her. And, most importantly, the Democrats are going to wipe floor with the Republicans next year. That's thanks to George 'Herbert Hoover' Bush, the biggest screw-up President in my lifetime. The rest of the Republicans screwed up pretty badly, too.<BR/><BR/>Watching Bill Clinton and Congress play their games was a little vacation from reality we seemed to be able to afford. So then we elected a completely Republican government, and we had a vacation from both reality AND competence.<BR/><BR/>It was an interesting little holiday in Republicanland. Tax Cut Land was OK, if you like that sort of thing. <BR/>All the rides in International Relations Land seem to have broken down And War on Terror Land was a complete mess. I want my money back. Looks like the amusement park is closing, though, and we're all going to be leaving. I just hope the last shuttle back to reality hasn't left yet.Bea Arthurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14318661393142300030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1588031138427122892007-09-21T23:58:00.000-05:002007-09-21T23:58:00.000-05:00Oh yeah - tough choice.Amen.<I>Oh yeah - tough choice.</I><BR/><BR/>Amen.Hoosier Daddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12872965118921894534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-21019265656737219812007-09-21T23:03:00.000-05:002007-09-21T23:03:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Bea Arthurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14318661393142300030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-31323878782041818432007-09-21T21:27:00.000-05:002007-09-21T21:27:00.000-05:00This evangelical can vote for Rudy with a clear co...This evangelical can vote for Rudy with a clear conscience.<BR/><BR/>St Paul emphasized the need to be model citizens as afar as possible, in obedience to the elected authorities as much as possible. That would include voting, and taking the time to make a serious informed decision before voting.<BR/><BR/>That practically translates into making what is often a strategic decision: Candidate A is closer to me on 5 of the 7 positions that are important to me, while Candidate B is aligned with me on only 1, but that 1 is my #One issue. Like everyone else who seriously considers a candidate, evangelicals know they are often taking the "lesser of 2 evils".<BR/><BR/>IWhen it comes to Rudy vs. Hillary:<BR/><BR/>I am pro-life, but neither of them is. However, who is more likely to nominate judges that salivate at the opportunity to tell the Judiciary Committee how much they consider Roe to be the Cornerstone of the entire Constitution, after passing the new President's litmus test for being solidly pro-choice?<BR/>(Remember - it was John Kerry who promised to appoint upholders of Roe. Yeah, that's not a litmus test)<BR/><BR/>I believe that Marriage should remain between a man and a woman. Like most evangelicals, I have no problem with numerous benefits that are associated with civil unions - visitation, insurance, inheritance, as examples - being legalized for other relationships. Now I've lost both of these candidates, but who is more likely to press for a national right-to-marry law?<BR/><BR/>On Taxes: If you can't figure this one out, please don't vote. Please. <BR/><BR/>Personally I am middle of the road on gun control, so that's somewhat of a wash.<BR/><BR/>The environment - I avoid discussion of other religions in polite company.<BR/><BR/>My main concern, as a father and soon-to-be grandfather, is National Security. Is this really now a hard decision? Let's see:<BR/><BR/>. -- A Hardass talking woman with no administrative experience who is disrespectful towards the military she wants to lead: she just refused to condemn Moveon.org on the Betray Us ad because they're so far up her a-- that they shake hands with Hsu, or<BR/><BR/>. -- A former United States Attorney and Assistant Attorney General who had over 4,000 successful convictions, broke the back of the Mafia's five largest families in the organized crime trial of the century, restored order and pride in the ugliest city in America - New York, New York - while bringing down major crime.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Oh yeah - tough choice.Brenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02480180418373862524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85624422735283778472007-09-21T17:33:00.000-05:002007-09-21T17:33:00.000-05:00Bea,I've read a number of mind-boggling things tod...Bea,<BR/><BR/>I've read a number of mind-boggling things today, but I have to say your equivocation between the health-care "crisis" and terrorist jihadism takes the cake!<BR/><BR/>Please tell me I've completely missed the point of what you were trying to say...Kirk Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05921711310191924997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-38484916071543454412007-09-21T16:32:00.000-05:002007-09-21T16:32:00.000-05:00That you are stretching so hard as to claim that t...<I>That you are stretching so hard as to claim that the NRA supports him(!) is exhibit A for my initial claim.</I><BR/><BR/>Hmmm...I don't think that's quite fair Roost. I don't think I was trying to make a claim that Rudy had the backing of the NRA, if the implication was there, it was unintentional. My claim in the last post was that even the NRA supports common sense gun control. <BR/><BR/>My point is that despite his social liberal stances, he is viewed by most conservatives as a law and order type and that tends to rank higher than say, whether Tom and Barney can legally get married. Will the hard right Christians vote for him? I dunno but I honestly don't give them as much clout as some others do. Both the hard left and hard right constitute about 20% of the voting population but have the biggest mouths of all. I'm a gun owner myself, a veritable armory I have by some standards yet have never been an NRA member. The vast majority of the country sits on the fence, ergo, moderate. <BR/><BR/>Can Rudy get the nomination? Jury is out. Then again, I'm not seeing how Hillary can win the whole kitty with a 40% DISapproval rating either.Hoosier Daddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12872965118921894534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-13503388389616320672007-09-21T16:24:00.000-05:002007-09-21T16:24:00.000-05:00Roger, the VC quote was from David Kopel.That's a ...Roger, <BR/>the VC quote was from David Kopel.<BR/><BR/>That's a good distinction to make, ignoring v. prioritizing/balancing. <BR/><BR/>Sure, there are many people who have made conscious decisions to put other concerns on the back burner until the terrorist threat has passed. (Picture the press conference: fat chance)<BR/><BR/>But I think the comments by some up above indicate that many of Giuliani's fans don't really know what Giuliani stands for. He's a lot closer to Hillary Clinton than many people give him credit/blame for.<BR/><BR/>It's not like Thompson is "soft on terror". If I were a conservative republican, I would much prefer a Thompson presidency. My only question would be, is it worth giving up gun rights, defense of marriage, and immigration in order to have a better chance at a Republican white house? It's Giuliani as tactical retreat, I guess. <BR/><BR/>Of course, there are also many people who are not "settling" for Giuliani, who have views that he represents fairly well. I'd guess that Ann Althouse is one.Roost on the Moonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17418683905180670249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-2897912228802608852007-09-21T15:48:00.000-05:002007-09-21T15:48:00.000-05:00We've been here before -- electoral results equate...We've been here before -- electoral results equated to some kind of national mental illness syndrome. Remember the "angry white men" who supposedly had a "tantrum" in 1994? <BR/><BR/>Here we go again, being irrational. <BR/><BR/>Electing Democrats is always the better angels of our nature at work. Electing Republicans means we've given into dark, shadowy impulses and need therapy. <BR/><BR/>I know I sound like a Republican when I say things like this, but what I really am is an embarrassed liberal. Why do my people write such patronizing bullshit?John Stodderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14185881995621265497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-20172933209633684542007-09-21T15:33:00.000-05:002007-09-21T15:33:00.000-05:00Roost: Volokh is purportedly a libertarian orient...Roost: Volokh is purportedly a libertarian oriented blog, but on a recent self disclosure survey by the Saintly Eugene, commenters were pretty evenly divided among liberal, libertarians, and conservatives. Which "conspirator" made that statement you quote, if I may ask?<BR/><BR/>As to your point about republicans "ignoring" Rudy's social liberalism and personal life--I would submit it isnt a matter of IGNORING but rather of balancing his views on terrorism and crime control (ie security issues) against his social liberalism. You choose the candidate who best captures your personal priorities, and I believe security issues tend to predominate many voters political calculus.Roger J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12639676792043324100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-39763702150338993162007-09-21T15:22:00.000-05:002007-09-21T15:22:00.000-05:00Point taken. Saying the NRA is against "Any kind ...Point taken. Saying the NRA is against "Any kind of control" was over-reaching. They support background checks for crime and insanity. But that's about the extent of it. Not exactly controversial stuff; not anything anyone opposes. So again, not really where the action is on this issue. <BR/><BR/>You think the NRA is convinced? I'd be very surprised; he has referred to them as "extremists"..."terrible for states and cities. They're terrible for America."<BR/><BR/>Here's a gem:<BR/><BR/>“The more guns you take out of society, the more you are going to reduce murder. The less you take out of society, the more it is going to go up.” <BR/><BR/>He supports a pending lawsuit against gun manufacturers by the city of New York:<BR/><B><BR/>“This is an industry that is profiting from the suffering of innocent people. What’s worse, its profits rest on a number of illegal and immoral practices. This lawsuit is meant to end the free pass that the gun industry has so long enjoyed.”</B><BR/><BR/>According to the analysis offered by the moderate conservative (& around these parts, fairly well-respected) blog The Volokh Conspiracy, <BR/><BR/>"Rudy Guliani (R-N.Y.) is even worse than his predecessor, Democrat David Dinkins; indeed, based on his record, arguably worse than Sen. Clinton."<BR/>_________________________________<BR/><BR/>That you are stretching so hard as to claim that the NRA supports him(!) is exhibit A for my initial claim. For whatever reason, Republicans are willfully ignoring lots of things about Rudy Giuliani. The trick for him, then, is to make that last long enough to win the nomination. If he does, there is a strong chance we'll have a Republican president. But you'll have already ceded quite a bit of ground on domestic issues to the left.Roost on the Moonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17418683905180670249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-52489824944133384162007-09-21T15:09:00.000-05:002007-09-21T15:09:00.000-05:00Boy, the next 400 days are gonna be fun, aren't th...Boy, the next 400 days are gonna be fun, aren't they? I'm somehow reminded of the Iranian hostage crisis.<BR/><BR/>I just wanted to give a shout out to Bea Arthur for her excellent voice work on <I>Futurama</I>.blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-35449156430297634882007-09-21T14:48:00.000-05:002007-09-21T14:48:00.000-05:00Too many jims--tacking to the right using the cell...Too many jims--tacking to the right using the cell phone schtick as cover.Roger J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12639676792043324100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-88034357757030839812007-09-21T14:46:00.000-05:002007-09-21T14:46:00.000-05:00ohhhh Hoosier Daddy?Well as nearly half the state ...ohhhh Hoosier Daddy?<BR/><BR/>Well as nearly half the state lives in NYC and he as a GOPer won twice, I'd think 'most' is questionable. <BR/><BR/>Well NY is democratic about 60-40. He get's virtually zero votes there and his Republican favorability is under 70% so 40 x's .7 = 28%....so he should get roughly 28-35% in NY. Had enough?<BR/><BR/><BR/>Please tell me who of the slate on either side has any? <BR/><BR/>He was mayor for 8 years and his favorables prior to 9-11 were 40%. He started his consultant group with Bernie Kerick shortly thereafter. Want more? There isn't much except for a pretty good career as US attorney SDNY...that I will concede.<BR/><BR/>His chances of carrying his home state of New York are nil when matched up with Clinton.<BR/><BR/>Last poll has Hillary up by 10%.<BR/><BR/>He will be the easiest candidate to pick apart.<BR/><BR/>NRA will pick him off for gun control. Religious right for infidelity and abortion. Economists for his wretched handling of NYC finances...want more?<BR/><BR/>Ok if you say so.<BR/><BR/>Oh I do.hdhousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14573004614816464571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-47115965384668266192007-09-21T14:43:00.000-05:002007-09-21T14:43:00.000-05:00I am curious what people think of this excerpt fro...I am curious what people think of <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9ffXJOSKZg" REL="nofollow">this</A> excerpt from Giuliani's speech to the NRA.Too many jimshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05646293982003548641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-39999902122020343422007-09-21T12:55:00.000-05:002007-09-21T12:55:00.000-05:00Roost, just one other point regarding your stateme...Roost, just one other point regarding your statement:<BR/><BR/> <I>The NRA doesn't support registration, waiting periods, or any kind of control, </I><BR/><BR/>Actually they do.<BR/><BR/><I>Wayne LaPierre, the group’s executive vice president, told NEWSWEEK that Cho, the Virginia Tech killer, “absolutely” should have been barred from buying a gun under current federal laws. But Lapierre nonetheless says the group is now working with longtime ally Rep. John Dingell, Democrat of Michigan, on a bill to ensure that mental-health records—such as the December 2005 court order directing Cho to receive a psychiatric evaluation—are entered into a FBI database that is used for background checks of gun buyers. Federal law does bar sales of guns to those who have been found to be mentally “defective,” but most states have a shoddy track record of reporting mental-health records to the feds.</I><BR/><BR/>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18298126/site/newsweek/<BR/><BR/>Evidently the President of the NRA is convinced as well.Hoosier Daddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12872965118921894534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-22761852875515975322007-09-21T12:36:00.000-05:002007-09-21T12:36:00.000-05:00The notion that liberals should like him because h...<I>The notion that liberals should like him because he isn't anti-abortion or pro-guns is preposterous</I><BR/><BR/>Is it? Why then is a supreme court candidate's position on abortion the litmus test in his/her nomination for liberals? <BR/><BR/><I>Strange post. "Ideology Trumps."</I><BR/><BR/>Allow me to clarify: Preconceived notions of left vs right ideology. Rudy is a GOPer thus antithema to left ideology, never mind that Rudy is a social liberal. Again, pro-choice, gun control, gay rights yet the knee jerk reaction of the left is Rudy is bad because he's a republican.<BR/><BR/><I>An all-out gun-ban has simply never been on the table. The debate has always been (strong control v. 2nd amendment rights.)</I><BR/><BR/>Do you seriously believe that any of the Democratic candidates would not try for ban on private ownership of firearms if they thought they could get it? Is it legal to own a handgun in Chicago or Washington DC?<BR/><BR/><I>But somehow, you've convinced yourself that Good Conservative Americans like yourself can see that it's not the bad kind of gun control.</I><BR/><BR/>Probably because it isn't a bad kind and most conservatives would support it. Law and order. Only the fringe nutballs think <I>anyone</I> should have easy access to firearmsHoosier Daddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12872965118921894534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-70727466692388455682007-09-21T12:15:00.000-05:002007-09-21T12:15:00.000-05:00B: add to that she is apparently using Sandy Berg...B: add to that she is apparently using Sandy Berger as one of her national security advisors.Roger J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12639676792043324100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-76062962456036464042007-09-21T12:10:00.000-05:002007-09-21T12:10:00.000-05:00Hillary burnished her National Security Credential...Hillary burnished her National Security Credentials yesterday by:<BR/><BR/>1) refusing to endorse a measure that decrys the moveon.org General "BetrayUs" ad.<BR/>Does anyone honestly believe that if she can't stand up for a general now, that she'll have the undying confidence of the military when she's Commander in Chief?<BR/><BR/>2)Her comments so far on the reprehensibility of Holocaust-denying and killer of Americans Iranian President Ahmanedinijad coming to speak at Columbia University:<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>(Yup - she's <B>real</B> qualified <BR/>to oversee this nation's national security.)<BR/><BR/>.Brenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02480180418373862524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-38544673538712235052007-09-21T12:09:00.000-05:002007-09-21T12:09:00.000-05:00Dang. I forgot to mention that my father never com...Dang. I forgot to mention that my father never complained about the political state of affairs.AllenShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08848966772462502893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-6603465979392980702007-09-21T12:06:00.000-05:002007-09-21T12:06:00.000-05:00Roger, I suspect that if push came to shove, Giuli...Roger, <BR/>I suspect that if push came to shove, Giuliani might even be left of Lieberman on many issues, especially the ones that put him at odds with the angry protestant right. (Abortion, establishment-clause issues, gay rights...) It's going to be an interesting primary. I think Thompson will actually be a taller hurdle for Giuliani than Clinton would be.<BR/><BR/>Hoosier Daddy,<BR/><BR/>Strange post. "Ideology Trumps." It seems like we're talking about a phenomenon exactly the opposite of that. We're talking about ideology not trumping, for both sides. <BR/><BR/>Then, on gun control, really strange. If the people you call knuckle-dragging Jesus-lovers agreed that the appropriate position was "Strong Gun Control in the name of Law & Order, stopping short of an all out ban", there wouldn't be an issue. <BR/><BR/>An all-out gun-ban has simply never been on the table. The debate has always been (strong control v. 2nd amendment rights.) The NRA doesn't support registration, waiting periods, or any kind of control, and neither do most GOP candidates. Giuliani is on the hard left side of this one. This is exactly the kind of ideology-blindness I'm talking about. The man wants to radically limit access to firearms. He wants a national database. But somehow, you've convinced yourself that Good Conservative Americans like yourself can see that it's not the bad kind of gun control.Roost on the Moonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17418683905180670249noreply@blogger.com