tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post8496148691205295477..comments2024-03-28T10:50:59.335-05:00Comments on Althouse: "If aliens visit us, the outcome would be much as when Columbus landed in America, which didn't turn out well for the Native Americans."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger74125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-51277045844250201832010-04-26T13:08:39.106-05:002010-04-26T13:08:39.106-05:00The eminent domain fighters are not saying that wh...<i>The eminent domain fighters are not saying that when property is taken it still belongs to the first guy.</i><br /><br />Some of them do say that, actually. Not all people agree that just because the government has stolen something from you, it is no longer your property. It really depends on whether you view property as a natural right, or as a government-defined right.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-79949493104915033862010-04-26T09:47:28.937-05:002010-04-26T09:47:28.937-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-26455860771912272562010-04-26T08:34:33.660-05:002010-04-26T08:34:33.660-05:00Unfortunately for "Ham", Neanderthals we...Unfortunately for "Ham", Neanderthals weren't part of North America. <br /><br />and as for Hussein Ham's rant: "The American Indian is not extinct. They are alive and well and have some really nice Casinos; they're much better educated, and live a longer, healthier life thanks to the technology we brought them and gave them. They adapted ... just like Darwin said they would. No people is exempt from the laws of natural selection."<br /><br />OMG.Opus One Mediahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04041788083619471630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-41135783905234382172010-04-26T08:31:18.359-05:002010-04-26T08:31:18.359-05:00As to the Fermi Paradox, there are is a very nice ...As to the Fermi Paradox, there are is a very nice series that addresses, the Paradox….try Ian Douglas’ nonology starting with <i>Semper Mars</i>. The whole nine book series is:<br />1) A Marine Corps recruiting tool; and<br />2) Quite interesting from a “hard science fiction” PoV.<br />The reason there AREN’T more folks blundering about the Galaxy is simple, the Xul/Hunters of the Dawn and before them the Children of the Night KILLED everyone else. It makes sense, IF you, you being the race itself, are a paranoid bunch of xenophobes, you realize that sooner or later, you’re going to meet yourself in the almost infinite vastness of the Galaxy. So when you meet ANYONE, you must kill them because you only have to be wrong once and YOU’RE dead! So the Hunters of the Dawn and the Children of the Night spent a large portion of their time, looking for technologically advanced races, those with radio and rudimentary star flight and KILLED THEM UTTERLY! It was the only way to be sure that they never met anyone as ruthless and well-armed as them….of course there is a problem…the Children were succeeded by the Xul and no human is going to have the Xul win…<br /><br />But it IS an interesting series, nonetheless, kind of asking after the Xul are gone, will the Humans take their place? After all the Xul showed that as an evolutionary tool, genocide works….<br /><br />As to aliens not showing up here….well back in the days before I read Douglas I thought they’d never turn up. The interstellar distances are too vast. How COULD any aliens travel the long distance and time, to come to Earth, given the Einstein Velocity Limit? HOWEVER, Douglas points out that a real-live human physicist, Miguel Alcubierre has posited an way to fool the Universe into allowing supra-luminal speeds. We can’t do it, and it may be impossible, or it may not….and then there’s quantum coupling and entanglement. Suddenly:<br />1) FTL travel has gone from IMPOSSIBLE, to just extremely unlikely; and<br />2) Making the aliens using it, more than likely, terribly advanced over us.<br />Bottom-Line: “where IS everyone?” is answerable by saying the Xul killed them all, and that when the Xul show up HERE, they’re going to be a whole lot more advanced than us, and they may not want us around…..I think Hawking has a very good point. Not everyone who turns up in our Solar System is going have the Prime Directive, or rather their Prime Directives may be a whole lot different than Kirk’s!Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846399206688807076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77918079195349429332010-04-26T06:44:59.676-05:002010-04-26T06:44:59.676-05:00"...Can land that empty be said to be inhabit..."...Can land that empty be said to be inhabited at all? When the first human set foot in North America did he "own" the entire continent?... "<br /><br />Hell, yeah!!! That's why the US owns the moon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-31078915538207419202010-04-26T05:37:06.569-05:002010-04-26T05:37:06.569-05:00"I have often had the same thought. The land ...<i>"I have often had the same thought. The land that comprises the United States was probably fought over dozens of times by the time the Europeans first arrived. We are far from the only conquerers of North America. We are merely the most recent ones."</i><br /><br />The Indians stole America from the American Neanderthals - its sole and rightful owners.<br /><br /><i>Bastards!</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1497046354753950522010-04-26T05:31:57.097-05:002010-04-26T05:31:57.097-05:00Here's a thought:
According to Hawkins, the u...Here's a thought:<br /><br />According to Hawkins, the universe has potentially billions of other advanced civilizations that have "life" (however you want to define that term).<br /><br />Those civilizations have had 13.5 billion years or so to advance themselves to the point where they could travel to Earth.<br /><br />And yet, nobody has made it.<br /><br />My "math" tells me that if the sum of the intelligence of all the civilizations in the known universe can't figure out a way to do intergalactic travel ... <i>it ain't possible in this universe and we shouldn't worry about it too much.</i><br /><br />Hawking made this statement in order to make more book sales and finance more hookers.<br /><br />Nothing more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-41189389030830036432010-04-26T02:42:18.347-05:002010-04-26T02:42:18.347-05:00"(or else, e.g., there would be no complaints..."(or else, e.g., there would be no complaints about eminent domain abuse)."<br /><br />Don't confuse arguing over what society SHOULD say you own with the fact that everyone agrees that your legal entitlement to something is where your property right is.<br /><br />The eminent domain fighters are not saying that when property is taken it still belongs to the first guy. They are saying they disagree with society taking that route in that case.Dustinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15590811467601049788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-88730895754252488112010-04-26T02:10:48.483-05:002010-04-26T02:10:48.483-05:00Seven,
"You own what society says you own&qu...Seven,<br /><br />"You own what society says you own" is one view of property rights, and certainly one of the more pragmatic ones. But it isn't the only one, and it isn't the one most of us instinctively believe in (or else, e.g., there would be no complaints about eminent domain abuse).Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-27060187256242249782010-04-26T01:39:10.462-05:002010-04-26T01:39:10.462-05:00He's got it about half right.
The right part ...He's got it about half right.<br /><br />The right part is people's dubious assumption that connecting with some random unknown will give you ET, a Care Bear, or some highly noble (in an earth centric way) creature who just wants to chill and share a coffee and discuss progress.<br /><br />If I were an alien, and obviously superior, I would pretty much do as I pleased and that might vary from sitting and having a chat, to biting your head off and pooping it out of my fingertips.<br /><br />You just never know, so you don't go near that door until it opens.Finn Alexander Kristiansenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05393135095699664504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-45195650645359423902010-04-26T01:02:53.620-05:002010-04-26T01:02:53.620-05:00Rev -- That's an easy question to answer since...Rev -- That's an easy question to answer since the governments in place in North America had no system in place to enforce perpetual ownership. Nobody owns anything. It's merely a bundle of rights enforced by laws and the diligence of the people living on the land.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-46557025039280095862010-04-26T00:47:53.172-05:002010-04-26T00:47:53.172-05:00When the first human set foot in North America did...<i>When the first human set foot in North America did he "own" the entire continent? South America too, since it is connected by land to North America?</i><br /><br />That's a hard question to answer. It also raises questions like "does the first intelligent life to inhabit a planet 'own' the planet". And "can a species which occupies so little of the planet's surface really be said to own it".Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33812643049899541432010-04-25T23:53:57.901-05:002010-04-25T23:53:57.901-05:00Lincolnf: "Gotta love the universal conceit t...Lincolnf: "Gotta love the universal conceit that the only people who have ever settled land that was already occupied (however sparsely) are the Americans."<br /><br />I have often had the same thought. The land that comprises the United States was probably fought over dozens of times by the time the Europeans first arrived. We are far from the only conquerers of North America. We are merely the most recent ones.<br /><br />And that raises another point. When the Europeans first arrived there probably were many places on the continent with only a couple people per hundred square miles. Can land that empty be said to be inhabited at all? When the first human set foot in North America did he "own" the entire continent? South America too, since it is connected by land to North America?Paul Ciottihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08919369756030397155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-22512463734991135932010-04-25T23:15:25.408-05:002010-04-25T23:15:25.408-05:00I just don't know.I just don't know.reader_iamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17352836883752091339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-25242959809796938202010-04-25T23:11:25.630-05:002010-04-25T23:11:25.630-05:00"No honor among thieves."
This bears re..."No honor among thieves."<br /><br />This bears repeating, and a reminder that there's some pretty nasty stuff out there that can wipe out huge swaths of humanity.Pennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02094488084214911115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-60126215371444419202010-04-25T23:09:52.576-05:002010-04-25T23:09:52.576-05:00I sometimes wonder what might have been had Stephe...I sometimes wonder what might have been had Stephen Hawkings put his work, his prodigious and unique talents and gifts of various sorts, to defining the differences between motor neuron diseases.* He's got a terrible one of those diseases. But I, for one, have to question whether it's actually ALS, the one to which he was assigned, all those many decades ago, when the knowledge of such stuff was even more pre-infancy than it is now.<br /><br />Yeah, I know: It's a terrible thing, what I just said. And it is. <i>It is.</i>* Flat out.<br /><br />Still. I'm a jerk* enough to worry more about the various "alien invaders"--odd, rare diseases which afflict, often enough, those whom we actually know, or could if we wanted to--among us than alien invaders from outer space, whether other planets, the outer galaxy, other galaxies, or whatever.<br /><br />---<br /><br />*I believe Hawking's first responsibility is to live out his own gifts and talents, particularly given the unique nature of them, as he has discovered them. I believe that for everyone. What I struggle with is the idea of secondary and/or competing callings and responsibilities--again, for everyone, but in some cases, maybe even more so?reader_iamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17352836883752091339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-23078635332797081912010-04-25T23:09:30.159-05:002010-04-25T23:09:30.159-05:00I sometimes wonder what might have been had Stephe...I sometimes wonder what might have been had Stephen Hawkings put his work, his prodigious and unique talents and gifts of various sorts, to defining the differences between motor neuron diseases.* He's got a terrible one of those diseases. But I, for one, have to question whether it's actually ALS, the one to which he was assigned, all those many decades ago, when the knowledge of such stuff was even more pre-infancy than it is now.<br /><br />Yeah, I know: It's a terrible thing, what I just said. And it is. <i>It is.</i>* Flat out.<br /><br />Still. I'm a jerk* enough to worry more about the various "alien invaders"--odd, rare diseases which afflict, often enough, those whom we actually know, or could if we wanted to--among us than alien invaders from outer space, whether other planets, the outer galaxy, other galaxies, or whatever.<br /><br />---<br /><br />*I believe Hawking's first responsibility is to live out his own gifts and talents, particularly given the unique nature of them, as he has discovered them. I believe that for everyone. What I struggle with is the idea of secondary and/or competing callings and responsibilities--again, for everyone, but in some cases, maybe even more so?reader_iamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17352836883752091339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-91279779174091916642010-04-25T23:05:37.627-05:002010-04-25T23:05:37.627-05:00To Sum Hawkins (in Italics) and in Response MTT
1...To Sum Hawkins (in Italics) and in Response MTT<br /><br />1) <i>The possibility of "life" outside of Earth is a non-zero number in an Infinite and expanding Universe. </i> Yes, this is a guess, but a good guess based on the sample size of the Universe, which is Infinity. Which, I might add, is big. Really, really big.<br /><br />2)<i>What that "life" may look like, act like, be like, may be something altogether different than on to what we have heretofore been focusing our attention.</i> Pretty non-controversial. A good hedge and again based on Universe size (see No. 1)<br /><br />3) <i>Contact with non-Earth-based life might be dangerous to Earth-based life. </i> Um, hell yeah. That shit might fuck you up. Look. Do not touch. Better yet, stay the hell away from it. Or hide, better yet still.<br /><br />4) <i>Where is Everybody?</i> The Fermi Paradox. Good question. Supraluminal travel seems to the be the sticking point. No way for us to figure out how that might even be possible, let alone practical. More to the point, the span of time and distance involved in Anybody getting here raises questions as to not only the seeming impossibility of doing so, but includes and is not limited to unimaginably long life-spans of non-Earth life forms and questions as to why the hell would they want to come here of all places? Dunno'. No one else does, either. (See Cookbook.)<br /><br />5) <i>Things worked out bad for the Aboriginal Americans (North and South) because of that damn Spanish Jooo.</i> Well, seems to be some truth in that, or not. Depends on the window of observation one wants to employ. For the descendants of said Aboriginal Americans, there are antibiotics, endoscopic surgeries, fiber-optic communications, indoor plumbing, and lots of other things that wouldn't have been available otherwise. Sadly, the World gains and loses people and their cultures over time. That much is True, and seems sad and sucks, but nothing lasts forever. I'm sure the Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Belgians, English, and French (to name but a few) are really, really sorry for everything they did to everybody on every continent prior to the 18th Century. What that has to do with 21st Century citizens of the United States of America is precisely Zero.<br /><br />Just sayin'.<br /><br />Cross-posted kinda'MeTooThenMailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14856238765652279585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-7191773178074777732010-04-25T22:30:35.001-05:002010-04-25T22:30:35.001-05:00You know, this story is meant to do one thing:
Ma...You know, this story is meant to do one thing:<br /><br />Maintain the fiction that aliens aren't already in control of our society! They are here right now!<br /><br />This strange looking 'human' who just happens to know all about wormholes and galaxies but talked through his robochair... this is the guy telling us not to attempt to contact the Federation? How conveeeeeeeniennnnnnnnnt! He's probably a fugitive. Xenu? Probably Stephen Hawking.<br /><br />You know, he's like 140 years old now, and he never eats.Dustinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15590811467601049788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-51104635505239739242010-04-25T22:19:40.196-05:002010-04-25T22:19:40.196-05:00David: Line swiped from the Firesign Theatre, Ever...David: Line swiped from the Firesign Theatre, <i>Everything You Know is Wrong</i>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-70087509850421602522010-04-25T22:16:10.959-05:002010-04-25T22:16:10.959-05:00Given the distances and the costs involved, the mo...Given the distances and the costs involved, the most likely invaders would be machines, not organic life.<br /><br />Someone else made that observation, sounds right to me. Don't know where I read it.Fr Martin Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-2057405652299503922010-04-25T21:55:22.951-05:002010-04-25T21:55:22.951-05:00People forget we didn't "Steal" the ...People forget we didn't "Steal" the Western USA from the Indians. We stole Texas, Calf, Arizona, and N.M from the Mexicans - who stole it from the Spanish -who stole it from the Indians.<br /><br />We bought most of the rest from France - who had gotten it from Spain -who stole it from the Indians.<br /><br />No honor among thieves.rcoceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17102201338319611538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-55071369447351918922010-04-25T21:26:50.845-05:002010-04-25T21:26:50.845-05:00Although I have not read his whole article/opinion...Although I have not read his whole article/opinion on the subject, you have to agree with the fact that appears to be a pretty statistically remote possibility that we are alone in the universe.Francis Barraganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10506252342880108072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-57145314561204808732010-04-25T20:55:14.342-05:002010-04-25T20:55:14.342-05:00Aliens arriving from outer space are unlikely to h...Aliens arriving from outer space are unlikely to have the same gene stock. Their diseases would not find as welcoming a home in our bodies as the diseases of Europe found in Native American bodies. In short, human population wouldn't be wiped out like small pox took down many Native Americans.<br /><br />I think it's a bad analogy.MadisonManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01212179466758420208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-76518567602190356222010-04-25T20:37:31.153-05:002010-04-25T20:37:31.153-05:00When it comes to these all-knowing scientists, I c...When it comes to these all-knowing scientists, I can only think of this:<br /><br />"Astrophysicists are always wrong, but never in doubt."<br />-- Robert P. Kirshner, Professor of Science, Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics at Harvard UniversityAMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03003530120705875703noreply@blogger.com